@ Italo, pls do not forget to continue asking the question o, "what is the pillar and foundation of truth"?

Syncan:

please call him brother na, he knows clearly that his "church" was founded to aid an adulterous king, yet he remains there, convincing himself that "all join", he has never heard of building on non-solid foundation. His only problem is for you to call him brother, abeg consider am na.

Just imagine!

"Call me brother" "call me brother"

They say we be antichrist, yet them wan be antichrist brother...

italo:

There's a verifiable unbroken link of Papal succession from St. Peter to Pope Francis.

Jesus did not give a Shepherd to only those who were alive in his day.

Jesus told Peter: "feed my sheep."

I ask you: are you Jesus sheep...and are you being fed by Peter?

I am Jesus' sheep, being fed by what Jesus taught himself and what Apostle Peter and other Apostles taught in the early church (all which is contained in the Bible). I do not follow what men have put together which is not in line with the bible. #its my standard.

knowledge4: Follow the bible. Focus on the bible.Look on to Jesus Christ alone as author and finisher of your faith,
Read the bible and do what it says and if you can endure to the end, you will make it to heaven.
There are no churches in heaven but the bible, the word of God stands forever (Isaiah 40:.
You will be judged by what the bible says,not what the church says.

What is the pillar and foundation of the truth...the Church or the Bible?

No Protestant has been able to answer it after 4days, 10pages, 300posts.

Maybe you can help them.

Ah, let me remind my crybabies one more time.


Anyway here is what someone who himself very nearly became a "pope" said:

Per "Cardinal" Baronius

"The chief lesson of these times is that the Church can get along very well without popes. What is vital to the Church's survival is not the pope but Jesus Christ. He is the head of the Church, not the pope."

adsonstone:

I am Jesus' sheep, being fed by what Jesus taught himself and what Apostle Peter and other Apostles taught in the early church (all which is contained in the Bible). I do not follow what men have put together which is not in line with the bible. #its my standard.

The bold is a lie. All Peter's teachings are not in the Bible. Infact, only a tiny fraction of their teachings are in the Bible.

Most of their teachings were by oral tradition.

Agreed?

Enigma: Ah, let me remind my crybabies one more time.


Anyway here is what someone who himself very nearly became a "pope" said:

Per "Cardinal" Baronius

"The chief lesson of these times is that the Church can get along very well without popes. What is vital to the Church's survival is not the pope but Jesus Christ. He is the head of the Church, not the pope."

Enigma you can do better than this repetition which has lost its meaning. Stop trolling and contribute if you have any.

adsonstone:

I am Jesus' sheep, being fed by what Jesus taught himself and what Apostle Peter and other Apostles taught in the early church (all which is contained in the Bible). I do not follow what men have put together which is not in line with the bible. #its my standard.

2. How do you that Peter ever wrote anything you have been reading in the Bible and you're being fed by him?

My answer: The Church (men) told me. Yours?

Enigma: My dear sister, do you see now that between you and I and in our little single question and answer, we have already demonstrated at least how denominationalism can start!

You say that the Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists are Churches.

BUT some Roman Catholics, including at least three on this very thread, disgaree with you because they say that the Baptists etc are NOT Churches!

They will tell you that those people are only "ecclessial communities" or "Christian communities". And that is when they are being charitable! Otherwise they say those people are "religious institutions" or even "shops".

And you know why they do it? Because the Roman Catholic Church told them to. They cannot think for themselves.

My dear sis, I said I had more than one question but would only ask you one. I am now going to pose another question in a following post. I am going to direct it to woky because of some recent exchange between me and him.

Please let us together watch what happens after I ask him the question.

@ okpurukata

I wonder if you followed the exchange between me and woky. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you the same question please.

Question:

Myself and two other friends believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and God the Son born of virgin Mary. We meet regularly to pray and sing hymns together. Would you call us {your} brothers or would you call us {your} "separated brethren"?


{Please, kindly give reasons/explanation for your answer, thanks.}

Sal C: Enigma you can do better than this repetition which has lost its meaning. Stop trolling and contribute if you have any.

You mean you can't see my other contributions! And how many times have I posted this? Or is it because what the "cardinal" said is true --- that we do not need "popes"?

And what do you have to say about the Roman Catholic posters and their posts?

By the way, I pose this question to you too!

Question:

Myself and two other friends believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and God the Son born of virgin Mary. We meet regularly to pray and sing hymns together. Would you call us {your} brothers or would you call us {your} "separated brethren"?


{Please, kindly give reasons/explanation for your answer, thanks.}

adsonstone:

I am Jesus' sheep, being fed by what Jesus taught himself and what Apostle Peter and other Apostles taught in the early church (all which is contained in the Bible). I do not follow what men have put together which is not in line with the bible. #its my standard.

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?

@Sal C

One more question actually, do you agree or disagree with what the "cardinal" said?

Anyway here is what someone who himself very nearly became a "pope" said:

Per "Cardinal" Baronius

"The chief lesson of these times is that the Church can get along very well without popes. What is vital to the Church's survival is not the pope but Jesus Christ. He is the head of the Church, not the pope."

italo:

2. How do you that Peter ever wrote anything you have been reading in the Bible and you're being fed by him?

My answer: The Church (men) told me. Yours?

My answer: The Church (men) also told me.
For the question you asked in the previous post: I said 'all which is contained in the bible' meaning 'I follow only the ones in the bible.' I don't mean all what he taught are recorded in the bible.
His teaching that were by oral tradition (which were not recorded) are always subject to verification as original details are hard to come across.

read Deuteronomy 4 vrs 16-19 ( all.Catholic members) emulate d worship the people called ISREAL they hold the true doctrine of worship n truth.

adsonstone:

My answer: The Church (men) also told me.
For the question you asked in the previous post: I said 'all which is contained in the bible' meaning 'I follow only the ones in the bible.' I don't mean all what he taught are recorded in the bible.
His teaching that were by oral tradition (which were not recorded) are always subject to verification as original details are hard to come across.

How do you know the books in the bible are genuine scriptures considering the fact there are not the only extant writings purpotedly written by the apostles or ancient jewish prophets

Do you also know that some of the biblical information(like the authourship of the four anonymous gospels and some other writings) were also gotten through oral tradition?

[quote author=Jayboi]I'm a proud catholic. It is the one true church founded by christ. Some wud say it is old, get on wit life and roll with the new way i.e new generatn churches bt I ask...why do u go to church? To dance? To get solutns to ur problems? To listen to motivational talks? I pity some pple. Some respect their pastors even more than God. But leme tel u one thing...devil don wise up o. Nowadays, the devil wud declare in Jesus' name and even make it luk so Godlike bt in d end, its always disastarous. [/quote.



just as you take your pope as god cux he doesn't worth d capital G

chukwudi44:

How do you know the books in the bible are genuine scriptures considering the fact there are not the only extant writings purpotedly written by the apostles or ancient jewish prophets

Do you also know that some of the biblical information(like the authourship of the four anonymous gospels and some other writings) were also gotten through oral tradition?

Beginning to doubt the genuineness of the Bible is a turn off and a total waste of time for any Christian (I don't know what else will be his guide for the Christian life if what he follows is not genuine)


Oral tradition or not, we have what we have (and I believe its all we need) in the Bible. If there were other things we needed (from the oral tradition you stated), it must have also been included in the bible.

adsonstone:

Beginning to doubt the genuineness of the Bible is a turn off and a total waste of time for any Christian (I don't know what else will be his guide for the Christian life if what he follows is not genuine)


Oral tradition or not, we have what we have (and I believe its all we need) in the Bible. If there were other things we needed (from the oral tradition you stated), it must have also been included in the bible.

Bros would you not be a hypocrite if you chose to believe one oral tradition and discard another one comming from the same source? If the source is evil why not throw everything that comes from it away

chukwudi44:

Bros would you not be a hypocrite if you chose to believe one oral tradition and discard another one comming from the same source? If the source is evil why not throw everything that comes from it away

And where's the evidence it actually evolved from oral tradition?

My point: If both are from the same source, they won't contradict one another. Besides, what's written (in the Bible) will surely (and clearly) portray what's practised (in the Oral Tradition).

millzbozz: Who wrote the Bible? Check all the
Prophets, who wrote the Bible? The
Bible was written in the year 1503 AD,
according to the Jewish history, which
is 501-years today—five hundred and
one years.
2. By the year 2004, from the
day the first Bible was written,
complied and published, it is 501
years. The first Bible was written
courtesy of the Vatican City because
Titus conquered Jerusalem and carried
all the parchments to Rome, because
Rome was controlling the whole world.
3. That was why the name of the
first Bible that was published in the
world, which was published in Latin
language, was called CODEX
VATICANUS. Am I telling lies? Quote
me wherever you go. There is no
Reverend Father, there is no Pope,
there is no Archbishop that does not
know about this truth—CODEX
VATICANUS!
4. It is 2001. Crosscheck it
wherever you can. After going through
this Message, you can go to All-
Hallows Students’ Library. Meet the
Rector of the Seminary. That is the
highest library you can lay hand on in
Onitsha. Or, you can go to National
Archives, in Enugu. Go and crosscheck
what I have said.
5. The next Bible after CODEX
VATICANUS was published in the year
1506, in the city of Alexandra. It was
also published in Latin language. It was
titled: CODEX ALEXANDRINUS. You
have to know the origin of these
things.
THE ORIGIN OF KING JAMES VERSION
OF THE BIBLE
The first English Bible was published in
Elizabeth English or Shakespearian
English. I will tell you the origin. It was
due to the problem Prince James had
in the Catholic Church.
7. Prince James was a son of King
James of England. He was an arch
Roman Catholic. He married Lady
Catherine who was barren. But Prince
James desired to have his own
children.
8. The Roman Catholic was
against polygamy. Thus, they stood
against his marrying another wife.
Prince James decided to go contrary to
the order of the Catholic Church and
took a second wife. The Archbishop of
Rome decided he would never wed
him.
9. Prince James decided to go
with Church Missionary Society, which
he later called the Church of England.
What we call “Church of Nigeria” today
or Anglican Church was CMS (Church
Missionary Society). It was a mere
society just like Scripture Union.
10. You must know the origin of the
Anglican Church.
11. Therefore, Prince James went
there. When he got there, he injected
a revolution because he was in
authority since his father died; he
ascended the throne as a king. Then,
he assembled English scholars and gave
them a copy of CODEX VATICANUS to
translate in the language of English—
that is British language.
12. Remember that we are speaking
English today is because we were
colonized by the British. If the French
had colonized us, we shall be speaking
French language. That is why we have
Anglophone countries.
13. Anglophone countries are the
countries that were controlled by the
British. Francophone countries are
countries that were colonized by
France. Do you get the Message?
14. King James assembled these
scholars. It took them three years to
translate the CODEX VATICANUS into
the language of the English of that day.
That English was Shakespearian
language; examples are: YE, THOU,
ART, SAYETH, and so many others
which are not current English we speak
today.
15. If you are conversant with
Shakespeare, even though he is from
England, it is not an American English.
The language of King James Version is
not an American language. It is purely
British language.
16. When they finished it, the man
decided to publish it. That is why it
was published under his SEAL and
handed out as a symbol of authority.
The seal of a king is an irrevocable seal.
That is why you can see it written as:
THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES
VERSION.
17. The whole thing was written
after the belief of his majesty, the King
of England under his seal and
authority. Have you seen it? That is
why you call it THE AUTHORIZED KING
JAMES VERSION. And it is being
diligently compelled, everything
remaining the same.
18. Can you translate from one
language to another with hundred
percent (100%) accuracy? Can you
translate from Igbo to English with
hundred percent (100%) accuracy? Can
you translate from English to Igbo with
hundred percent (100%) accuracy? No,
is not possible.

My friend you have done well in trying to relate to us the history of the bible based on ur findings. The codex vaticanus actually compiled in 1209 by the vatican does not mean bible history and compilation will be traced to the vatican. This scriptures were first written in scrolls by the original authors (moses, the prophets, the apostles etc) in the official jewish language - Hebrew.
Years later it was translated to greek language. The codex vaticanus is a latin version that was perculair to only the vatican then (note that as at that time, it wasn't only the catholic church in existence then) churches had already been established in ephesus, anthioc,corinth etc.
Even the codex vaticanus was also in pachments (in form of scrolls)
So please I will appreciate if we do not link the bible to any denomination.
It is a well established fact that the first official bible to be published is the King James Version. All previous translations were in parchments and not compiled as a full book.
To further solidify this; pls use any search engine to research on "the history of the bible" the codex vaticanus is no where near it.
It wasn't a generally accepted translation.
However nice findings.

adsonstone:

Beginning to doubt the genuineness of the Bible is a turn off and a total waste of time for any Christian (I don't know what else will be his guide for the Christian life if what he follows is not genuine)


Oral tradition or not, we have what we have (and I believe its all we need) in the Bible. If there were other things we needed (from the oral tradition you stated), it must have also been included in the bible.

Jude quoted the book of enoch in his epistle, pls what portion of your bible is the book of enoch he quoted?

italo:

When you opened this thread, you were begging for people to show you the way out of the confusion in Christendom.

We Catholics have offered you the practical solution.

You disagree, yet you have no other solution at hand.

You will continue in your confusion in your 1billion "churches"; we will continue in our certainty in the one true Church.

i just say that to express my amazement. That does not mean that u know the bible more than me. U cant twist scripture to deceive me. I know the history of the bible but u would be adamant to accept d truth. I dnt waist my time for nothing. Ok.

Syncan:

Jude quoted the book of enoch in his epistle, pls what portion of your bible is the book of enoch he quoted?

Hello, that portion quoted by Jude is what you need for your Christian walk. Going to research for the whole Book of Enoch will be awful. However, I'm quite sure you'll get more wrong things than right ones in your research (if you do).

Ukuts gp: U mean d devil is d one confusing the pastors abi. Why do we blame satan for everything?

hahahahhaahhahahahaha I love that

@adsonstone,

How then can you know you are being fed by Peter?

The letters that are attributed to Peter and his apostles could have been written by anybody else.

How are you sure of the source of the letters?

@adsonstone,

What's the pillar and foundation of truth?

Ukuts gp: i just say that to express my amazement. That does not mean that u know the bible more than me. U cant twist scripture to deceive me. I know the history of the bible but u would be adamant to accept d truth. I dnt waist my time for nothing. Ok.

What is the foundation and pillar of truth?

chukwudi44:

How do you know the books in the bible are genuine scriptures considering the fact there are not the only extant writings purpotedly written by the apostles or ancient jewish prophets

Do you also know that some of the biblical information(like the authourship of the four anonymous gospels and some other writings) were also gotten through oral tradition?

Doubting the authenticity of the bible can be likened to idolatery. Pls let's be mindfull of what we say and think in our hearts cos d devil is extremely smart and may coarse you into thinking negative.
Moreso the words of the bible goes beyond oral tradition. Cos MOST of the apostles wrote the books themselves and was not reported by a 3rd party.

italo: @adsonstone,

What's the pillar and foundation of truth?

My answer: Jesus is. (His teaching)
I'll appreciate it if you also answer this question.

italo: @adsonstone,

How then can you know you are being fed by Peter?

The letters that are attributed to Peter and his apostles could have been written by anybody else.

How are you sure of the source of the letters?

I don't doubt the Bible.

italo:

Thanks...and I appreciate your request. I feel honoured that you want to have this debate with me. Please allow me think about it for 24 hours then I will communicate my decision by sending you a pm.

If this debate holds brother, let us both ensure that we do it for Jesus...for love...for truth.

God bless you.

That's wisdom at work. I commend u both immensely. The goal is for Jesus n nt to prove a point. God bless u both.

Sability:


Actually, the church cannot be built on a man. The church is built on the truth which is the confession of Peter that Christ is the Son of God .

You must know more than Christ himself who first changed Simon name to Peter which means the rock and then went on to say 'Upon this rock I will build my Church'. Did you hear him say 'Upon this testimony I will build my Church?'. Olodo, confusionist, liar. Go back and reread that account of the gospel well.