@ 9jacrip & macof


A few books provide that there were small states within Ife – Oke Ora under Oduduwa, Idena under Oreluere, Itapa and Ideta under Obatala, Ita Yemoo under Yemoo (Obatala’s wife), Igbo Olokun under Olokun (Oduduwa’s wife). It would appear that Oduduwa conquered the other areas because there are separate accounts of revolt against Oreluere and Obatala.

Sources
Culture, Politics and Money Among the Yoruba – Toyin Falola
Ife Before Oduduwa (Isola Olomola) an excerpt found in Professor Akijogbin’s The Cradle of a Race
American, African, and Old European Mythologies – Yves Bonnefoy

See excerpt from Olodumare, God in Yoruba Belief – Bolaji Idowu

‘It is not certain what his original name was, but it could have been Oduduwa ….. We learn from Oral Tradition that when Oduduwa arrived in Ile Ife, there was already a community of aboriginal people under the leadership of Oreluore. The tradition persists that when Oduduwa arrived with his colonizing party, he at first did not pay any respect to Oreluere or recognize his headship. He was haughty and disdainful in his attitude.’


But in the absence of reading those books (It is almost impossible to find that Akinjogbin book today), please see below.


‘While no one could precisely say what motivate ‘ogboni’ cult or confraternity, to come into being in Ife-Oodaye, but postulations in Yoruba mythology, shed light on the pre-Oduduwa era in the IIe-Ife, when ‘Obatala’ and Oreluere were the ruling chieftains of the Aborigine Ife-speaking community. ‘Awo’ ogboni, among so many other ‘Awos’(i.e cults) in Ife then, became so prominent and relevant, more as a pressure group to protest the unceremonious arrival of the great colonial master in history, (i.e.) Oduduwa, just as certian people of today’s Nigeria, first resisted the coming of the British imperialism, so also, the aboriginal Ife people and their particularly leader, Obatala; vehemently resisted the unexpected arrival of Oduduwa and his followers into Ile-ife. But when they could not withstand the might and high political network of Oduduwa, these ancient Ife people, resorted to cover activities, by making use of their ogboni group to determine oduduwa’s authority. And in most cases, against oduduwa’s people themselves, who were not their members. Most of these terrorist acts take place during the life time of Queen MOREMI, an Ofa indigene, married to ORANMIYAN, one of the Ife kings at that time.’

http://oloolutof./ogboni-fraternity-the-oyo-perspective/



So to settle the debate between 9jacrip and macof – there are two accounts which are intertwined.
1. A cosmogonic/mythological one which provides that Olodumare gave the task of creating the world to Obatala but Oduduwa ended up completing the task with Obatala creating man - macof
2. A more realistic historical one in which Oduduwa surreptitiously conquered the Ife area by defeating Obatala (who may have also been Oreluere). This account is strengthened by the abandonment of Ife by the Ugbo (Ilaje/Mahin) but who later resort to guerilla tactics to retake Ife. I believe this ties in with the Moremi legend. It also fits in perfectly with the Itapa festival that is celebrated in Ife. - 9jacrip

Thank you to both of you. I have had to revert to old books for this which has provided some clarity for me. I have often wondered why Agboniregun was in Ife when Oduduwa arrived there. Something else to ponder, according to Akinjogbin and other Yoruba historians, there were at least 93 kings before Oduduwa. This fits in well with my belief that there were several Yoruba groups around at the same time as Ife pre-Oduduwa and why the Ijebu have always maintained that they are not from Ife.

jahrule: If Ibadan is the administrative head of Yoruba, Ekiti / Ondo as Academic/ research Headquarters, Ife Osun is spiritual home and Lagos been Economic Headquarters. I think Kwara can be the Military Headquaters since they are more like that or what do you think about this.

Military in Kwara ? Are you for real? You want history to repeat itself?

Please give Kwara Agriculture.

Katsumoto:

Military in Kwara ? Are you for real? You want history to repeat itself?

Please give Kwara Agriculture.

Agricultural Headquaters?. Football Haedquaters nko?

So,Kogi is now part of south ?I will really like to see what on earth,can make us joined the oduwa republic.U have to kill all able body men in Kogi for that to happen.Kogi,kwara and Benue are all north,accept that or put your region in hundred year war.We will never give up,what belong to us.

Ibrahim mr fish: So,Kogi is now part of south ?I will really like to see what on earth,can make us joined the oduwa republic.U have to kill all able body men in Kogi for that to happen.Kogi,kwara and Benue are all north,accept that or put your region in hundred year war.We will never give up,what belong to us.

But there are Yorubas in those states. Are you happy for them to be with you?

OP deactivated his account? but why?

lygn19:
Y...is it because they re yoruba?... Aren't there Igbo's in d southsouth?

what the hell is this drunk talking about!? Is'nt the defunct MIDWESTERN REGION the present day south south? The op has made a very good case,faulty foundational issues in disarray and disorderliness that we had hithertho been waving with da hand and you are here diverting attention away over nothingness! The ? u asked,whats it got to do with the reasonable points the op has brought up? Kwara is no way a northern state and the term "north central" is simply a falsehood and a grand ploy by the core north to indiscriminately make up numbers,states,lgas,bloc,population,....and the entire south has been sorta at d mercy of da north when it comes to....say decisions n votes at d nass,the south has been the loser...but the sad and hurtful thing is that when the east and s.south are out there,legitimately making demands from the fed govt regarding certain regional deficiencies like states creation,fed govt presence,resource control,etc,some hunk heads yorubas would make the loudest noice (as is done on here) more than the core northerners and condemn,reason against and refuse to support such moves and thats frustrating....am Edo and i got more cultural n traditional heritage with the west but i know full well that we all: da east,s.south and west has got a common struggle whether we like it or not...and the true m.beltans have realised it too....
So you are not helping matters when u talkin this way,pointing to jupiter....the true owners of Kwara need liberation along with their land and so does the entire southern nigeria and we gotta stand by eachother for now and perhaps settle other differences later....
In God We Trust. God bless

@Kats

That last info will also be needed on this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1487566/obatala-oduduwa-ile-ife

Well done Moderator

Desola:

But there are Yorubas in those states. Are you happy for them to be with you?

There are Yoruba in Benin republic also,I don't see u guys trying to take over their land.So why are you guys eyeing our land?

OAM4J: @Kats

That last info will also be needed on this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1487566/obatala-oduduwa-ile-ife

Done

What an educative thread....@Op,more synovial fluids to ur elbow....i rep afonja!

kayking01: What an educative thread....@Op,more synovial fluids to ur elbow....i rep afonja!

On point!!!

OAM4J: OP deactivated his account? but why?

Nooo

Ibrahim mr fish:
There are Yoruba in Benin republic also,I don't see u guys trying to take over their land.So why are you guys eyeing our land?

Your land as in Hausa land, right?

0monnakoda:
The problem with the Oyo empire is that it was an empire which means that all those groups that it subdued are likely to strive for their independence when circumstances are favourable and that is exactly what happened to Oyo in the early 19th century. Ilorin that a lot of people talk about is populated to a significant extent by descendants of slaves from sevral places. Ilorin was a place where slaves could claim their freedom especially if they could fight. It was a garrison town and that is the context in which it broke away from Oyo many of the so called Fulani were mercenary soldiers who were often freed slaves. We must remember that The Nupe and Borgu bore the brunt of slave raiding by the Oyos.

Tracing history to Ife was common just like Arabs and Jews trace their history to Adam but theywere always fighting as the Old testament tells us .There were several nations in Western Nigeria who spoke a "Lingua franca of Oyo language"" but tracing History to Ife Oduduwa etc did not have the same meaning that it appears to have today i.e we were ONE NATION or we are ONE PEOPLE. That would be a strange idea o a 19th century Ekiti or Egba man. That was never the case. The only people that attempted that were the OYO and that is most likely after their kings had been killed and replaced by Borgus or Nupes long before the Fulani Saga. You will observe that the other groups Ekiti,Ijebu<Ondo etc never tried to rule others through empire building.

There is another factor to consider; Geography there has been dessert encroachment over the centuries and the Savanna Belt has shifted southward meaning that Savanna peoples came into interaction with Forest peoples. Oyos used horses in their empire building which suggests they were most likely living in the Ilorin/Borgu territory before being force southwards by conflict.
My Hypothesis is that there are those "Yorubas" with a Savanna background and others with a forest background and a lot of the history has been fudged by the Empire but I have met in my life old people who refer to Oyo as "Yoruba People" indicating that they did not consider themselves Yoruba

I agree with you on this. The original old Oyo was in the present Nupe/Borgu areas.
Sango who was one of the most powerful Alafin is actually had a Nupe mother.
Some of the Alafin possibly had Nupe connections.
The Igunuko cult is of Nupe origin and it is practised by Yorubas with Nupe origin

Ibrahim mr fish: So,Kogi is now part of south ?I will really like to see what on earth,can make us joined the oduwa republic.U have to kill all able body men in Kogi for that to happen.Kogi,kwara and Benue are all north,accept that or put your region in hundred year war.We will never give up,what belong to us.

you are not speaking for Kogi ppl ok if u want to join the northerner you are free to do so with your family only we are are not part of north see the map will tell you better doll head

MODe u get?

@ All

We all seems to be missing the point here. Ilorin is just a town in Kwara, the foremost town as it may be.
But there are other big towns who are 100% Yoruba.
Like someone says, Ilorin controls everyone else with the Emir and Saraki factors.
If a free and fair referedum is done, other Yoruba towns will rather go with SW as they have been doing from pre colonial , 1st and 2nd republic.
The Igbominas and Ofa will stay with SW.

fluteman:
Thanks kats.....your knowledge is quite vast. Respect

But going forward, what do you think will happen regarding the title and what strategies can be deployed to regain rulership of Ilorin for the Yorubas?

How possible can it be? Majority of kwara Central are fulanis, d only yorubas thr are Idiapes nd Olojes who doesn't constitute 3%. I knw ds will only be of concern to kwara south who are all yorubas. Remember kwara belongs to Nupes, Barubas, Hausa's nd Many others who are nt yoruba's. This has happened long b4 yr great grand parents were born, who are u to elect oba of yoruba in ilorin when all d towns in kwara south have there Obas nd those in kwara north have their Emirs. As a matter of fact, Ilorin will be ruled by Fulanis till eternity. If u want to get it clear, go to centre for ilorin studies to understand d history beta.

O soldier:

you are not speaking for Kogi ppl ok if u want to join the northerner you are free to do so with your family only we are are not part of north see the map will tell you better doll head

Now if you say kogi should go with SW,how many percent of kogi represents yoruba?
Do you think igbira,igala,ogorimagongo and other tribes there would claim yoruba(SW)?

beentarh:
How possible can it be? Majority of kwara Central are fulanis, d only yorubas thr are Idiapes nd Olojes who doesn't constitute 3%. I knw ds will only be of concern to kwara south who are all yorubas. Remember kwara belongs to Nupes, Barubas, Hausa's nd Many others who are nt yoruba's. This has happened long b4 yr great grand parents were born, who are u to elect oba of yoruba in ilorin when all d towns in kwara south have there Obas nd those in kwara north have their Emirs. As a matter of fact, Ilorin will be ruled by Fulanis till eternity. If u want to get it clear, go to centre for ilorin studies to understand d history beta.

I have explained this severally but most seem to be biased and have little knowledge.

@Katz: I'm on the phone, I'd repond once I'm on the pc.

I love this thread! This is the real sovereign national conference right here!

Even the northerners whom we seldom see are all coming out of the woodworks!

Welcome guys, you should participate more frequently. Even though I don't agree with your views, I respect them more so because it makes the discussion balanced!

lertee:
Now if you say kogi should go with SW,how many percent of kogi represents yoruba?
Do you think igbira,igala,ogorimagongo and other tribes there would claim yoruba(SW)?

Igbira are not northerner, there are part of Igbira in Edo state with a very large population go and find out from your father. Igbira are more of ss then north or west. see the map and dont be confused

O soldier:

Igbira are not northerner, there are part of Igbira in Edo state with a very large population go and find out from your father. Igbira are more of ss then north or west. see the map and dont be confused

You should have more courtesy while adressing people.
You can sit your mother down and ask her more history of your village.

O soldier:

Igbira are not northerner, there are part of Igbira in Edo state with a very large population go and find out from your father. Igbira are more of ss then north or west. see the map and dont be confused

Incase you do not know how to or be civil in a debate.
Go through the question again and answer properly if you got the brain to. I asked: will the igbiras,igalas and ogoris agree to go to the SW?
Simple as it is.

lertee:
You should have more courtesy while adressing people,the frustration and hate you are emitting is getting to your brain.
You can sit your mother down and ask her more history of your village.

Can believe we have many educated illitrate here, read your history. dont no why children shld come to comment here

O soldier:

Can believe we have many educated illitrate here, read your history. dont no why children shld come to comment here

Ouch!

O soldier:

Can believe we have many educated illitrate here, read your history. dont no why children shld come to comment here

We should know who is more childish here.
A mature person gets civil while discussing,he takes his time to read and understands then give an answer.
It is only a kid like you that mentions irrelevant things while discussing. I asked you a simple question,what has father got to do with it?

Common!!!! I'm sure the modern day people of Ilorin have nothing to do with all of these, those who are dead and gone are responsible. Yoruba must use it as a lesson. If Ilorin people now want to join the west, I say they are unstoppable

shymexx: Why can't Yoruba's leave these snakes alone and let them go with the North?

Rexxie:
what the hell is this drunk talking about!? Is'nt the defunct MIDWESTERN REGION the present day south south? The op has made a very good case,faulty foundational issues in disarray and disorderliness that we had hithertho been waving with da hand and you are here diverting attention away over nothingness! The ? u asked,whats it got to do with the reasonable points the op has brought up? Kwara is no way a northern state and the term "north central" is simply a falsehood and a grand ploy by the core north to indiscriminately make up numbers,states,lgas,bloc,population,....and the entire south has been sorta at d mercy of da north when it comes to....say decisions n votes at d nass,the south has been the loser...but the sad and hurtful thing is that when the east and s.south are out there,legitimately making demands from the fed govt regarding certain regional deficiencies like states creation,fed govt presence,resource control,etc,some hunk heads yorubas would make the loudest noice (as is done on here) more than the core northerners and condemn,reason against and refuse to support such moves and thats frustrating....am Edo and i got more cultural n traditional heritage with the west but i know full well that we all: da east,s.south and west has got a common struggle whether we like it or not...and the true m.beltans have realised it too....
So you are not helping matters when u talkin this way,pointing to jupiter....the true owners of Kwara need liberation along with their land and so does the entire southern nigeria and we gotta stand by eachother for now and perhaps settle other differences later....
In God We Trust. God bless

Really love ur contribution God Bless You