skydeexie: I have a few questions for the 'purgatarians':
1. Did Jesus ever taught purgatory even remotely or alluded to the fact of its existence?

skydeexie:
2. The dying thief who asked the Lord Jesus Christ for pardon and to remember him in His coming kingdom, is he in purgatory now?

skydeexie:
3. Where are Moses, Elijah and all the other prophets of old, are they in purgatory including Mary the mother of our Lord?

italo:

Everyone in purgatory is heaven bound.

God releases them sometime between their particular judgement when they are sent to purgatory and the general judgement when all those in purgatory are received into heaven.

You see how clearly I answered your questions?

Now please answer me the same way.


Matt. 12:32 - And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

That verse clearly shows that there are some other sins that can be forgiven in the world to come

Since there's no forgivess in heaven or hell, where in the world to come are sins forgiven?

1 Cor 3:15 - If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Where is this that people suffer loss and are saved as by fire?

adsonstone:
Answer: where judgement will be done by God.

To start with, we both know that if sins are not forgiven here on earth after Jesus' death and resurrection, then the sacrifice is a total waste of time. Perhaps, He needed not to come here on earth if sins could be forgiven somewhere up there. (theres no debate if you disagree).

The matthew scripture, interpreting literaly, following your analogy,
it would mean;
1. There are some other sins that will not also be forgiven in the world to come.
2. There are some that will be forgiven in the world to come (as you said)
3. There are some other sins that wont be forgiven in this world.

I hope thats right.
....and if 3 is right, which sin exactly did Christ's death pay for?

For the 1 Cor scripture, I recommend a more guided study as I perceive that this is the most misinterpeted verse in the bible.

ProfChris10: I am a witness to this, Paul was saying something similar in Rom7:15-24, but in 25 he finally understands the mystery of it all, and it was this same Paul that fought the good fight of faith, he was able to endure till death, the secret is in Christ Jesus, I'm a witness to this, I have tried my power to live righteous but it didn't work, one still finds himself doing what he doesn't like, but thanks be to God, through Christ, you become dead to sin, you no longer have the desires, even when temptation comes Jesus is able to keep us from falling. my point is that we should not put hope in a purgatory, pray God to keep you spotless and blameless, Christ is coming for a spotless and blameless church, without wrinkle. Sometimes the truth is bitter, Nothing unholy shall enter therein, How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation. Though we all are entitled to our own believes. Stay blessed.

free radical: Jesus' sacrifice on the cross is not an express ticket to heaven. Your works must first show its worth when its tested through fire only then can you be free to enter heaven. If Jesus had not died for us no matter how righteous you live you wont smell heaven because of the guiltof Adam and eve's sin. That's why he descended into hell to free all the righteous ones that had died before his crucifixion. This is just natural heavenly law.....u cannot be holy enough to just waltz straight to heaven because because every sin you commit has a temporal punishment which you must satisfy even after that sin has been forgiven. those that arent paid back in this life will surely be atoned for in the world to come. kapito

adsonstone:
Answer: where judgement will be done by God.

To start with, we both know that if sins are not forgiven here on earth after Jesus' death and resurrection, then the sacrifice is a total waste of time. Perhaps, He needed not to come here on earth if sins could be forgiven somewhere up there. (theres no debate if you disagree).

adsonstone:
The matthew scripture, interpreting literaly, following your analogy,
it would mean;
1. There are some other sins that will not also be forgiven in the world to come.
2. There are some that will be forgiven in the world to come (as you said)
3. There are some other sins that wont be forgiven in this world.

I hope thats right.
....and if 3 is right, which sin exactly did Christ's death pay for?

adsonstone:
For the 1 Cor scripture, I recommend a more guided study as I perceive that this is the most misinterpeted verse in the bible.

adsonstone:

sure, you cant claim youre forgiven and still choose to live in sin.

Concerning the bold, if you are still punished (temporarily) on earth (and even after death) after you've been forgiven, then what exactly is forgiveness?

italo:

You already answered that these sins will be forgiven where judgement will be done (up there). That is contradictory to the rest of the above. Sort yourself out.

italo:
Dont put it down to me. It was Christ who said so.

Matt 12:32 - And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

italo:
That is why we are here. Give us the "more guided study," if you can.

italo:

You surely have not read how God forgave David yet made him pay for the sin.

adsonstone:
intead of referring me to this, I think you should refer me to someone God punished after Christ died for his sins.....that would be better.

adsonstone:
Dont misquote me, I never said sins will be forgiven up there.
It seem you forgot your question, you said 'where is this place that people suffer loss and are saved as by fire' and my answer was 'where the 'judgement will be done by God.' How does that contradict?
Literaly, that passage says a man's work will be burned (not the man) and he'll suffer loss (which is in line cos wen one's work is burned, itz a loss to him) but he'll be saved (I dont even think youll xpect him to burn with his work)-thats straightforward (literaly)

adsonstone:
I only helped you do what you were already doing since nothing is hard for you even implying(infering) what Christ did not say from what He said. I did not put it down to you.

adsonstone:
No, I wont.
Why?
I'm not in the position to give you that.

amara.lizzy%40y:
How else do u want me to answer his questn when he is just beatn around d bush. pls if u dn't hav anytin 2 say u shot ur cavity.

amara.lizzy%40y:
Bible said is appointd un2 man 2 die once afta death judgement follows. Notin lyk after death purgatory follows.

italo:

Okay.

Matt. 12:32 - And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

That verse clearly shows that there are some other sins that can be forgiven in the world to come.

You said no forgivess in heaven or hell, so where in the world to come are sins forgiven?

1 Cor 3:15 - If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Where is this that people suffer loss and are saved as by fire?

Pipsland78:

This dude is really funny. Nowhere in the verses quoted is it suggested that any sin will be forgiven in the world to come. So how did he come about the idea of sins being forgiven in the afterlife?

People should stop assuming and misinterpreting the Bible .

italo:

This is sufficient!

Your question was:
Concerning the bold, if you are still punished (temporarily) on earth (and even after death) after you've been forgiven, then what exactly is forgiveness?

That shows you what exactly (God's) forgiveness is.

italo:

Yes.

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8 ) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.
Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.
Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.
Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html


I dont know if he is there now or in heaven now. But I know that Jesus said he would be with him in paradise that day...and Jesus did not ascend to his father that day.


These people are surely in heaven.

Now can you answer these questions?


Matt. 12:32 - And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

That verse clearly shows that there are some other sins that can be forgiven in the world to come.

Since there's no forgivess in heaven or hell, where in the world to come are sins forgiven?

1 Cor 3:15 - If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Where is this that people suffer loss and are saved as by fire?