vickyO: Nothing like purgatory. those Catholics like confusing themselves, that's why you see some of them drinking to stupor in their meetings and doing things that contradicts the doctrines of the Bible. they make themselves believe they can sin till they die and get corrected in purgatory before entering heaven. They are good for being united in the wrong set of doctrines and being blinded by it. better correct most of the dirty doctrines prevalent in your denomination before your behinds land in hades.

...................God forgive u for u dnt knw what u are sayin, i must let u knw pugatory exist, and their are diff btw sin, some sin lead to death y some did not, if u comit sin dat did not lead to death u a goin to pugatory, but d 1 dat lead to death is hell direct.........1st john 5:16

kingk:

No one has an ANSWER here...pls what are those SIN that is unto and not unto DEATH.




NO! There's no impurity in heaven............ But what are the SIN NOT unto DEATH and SIN unto DEATH?

One example: a 'white lie.' E.g "tell am say I no dey" when you dey.

mavister: Hello all..
This issue of purgatory is a very serious and delicate one as many are confused and have been led away from the truth.
Now the big question is what is purgatory
According to the catholic doctrine, purgatory is a place, probably a geographical space in the spiritual realm where wrong doers (people who commited little sins in their life time here on earth) are kept temporarily and retributed for their sins for a period of time before they are now sent to heaven. Having understood what purgatory means, i'd like to expantiate clearly on this.
Now we all go to church and as such we cant say we are ignorant of God's word.even if we are, we have a conscience to know what is good and bad and avoid the bad. Our God is no respecter of persons, age, status etc. And as such no sin is too big or small in the eyes of God. Now God is not a man and the way we look at sin is not the way God looks at sin. We humans tend to classify sins under big and small sins but the almighty God generalizes sins and even a small lie has same gravity as murder. That is God for you. Secondly, if you believe in this doctrine of purgatory, that means u are indirectly saying that God counts small sins and counts big sins as different and dishes out different punishment to the doers. Let me tell you this, purgatory is not biblical and is just a human ideology in a bid to justify thier inability to live a wholly life void of sin.. This doctrine is one believed by the weak man who hasnt recieved the touch of God fully. I believe if u are sanctified and holy-ghost filled., u will know better..am not condeming anyone here neither am i speaking from a biased mind but all am saying is that purgatory has no scriptural proof watsoever..i once asked a vibrant catholic friend to show me where it is in d bible or somtin relating to purgatory but he could not. But went on saying that there is purgatory..well in dat case .i didnt arfue with him. I just kept praying for God to open his eyes..i have seen catholics to be very bent people to their doctrines and without changing it.not even in their minds and this is quite tru...but let me leave you all with this last words... YOU AND I KNOW THERE IS HEAVEN AND HELL EVEN IF U BELIEVE IN PURGATORY, U KNOW THIS IS TRUE. U AND I KNOW SIN IS WRONG AND CAN TAKE U YO HELL.. YES YOU KNOW THAT. YOU AND I KNW THAT HEAVEN IS A PLACE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE SINLESS. YES U KNOW THAT..NO SINEER WILL ENTER THERE.. NOW WHAT IF IT HAPPENS THAT U LIVE A WHOLLY HOLLY LIFE WITHOUT DELIBRATE SIN AND U SERVE GOD AND THEN U DIE, IF U FIND OUT THERE IS NO PURGATORY, AND U END UP IN HEAVENM, U WOULD HAVE LOST NOTIN BUT GAINED ETERNAL LIFE..BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IF U BECAUSE OTHERS ARE BELIEVING THERE IS PURGATORY AND U JOIN THEM AND U SAY WELL SMALL LIES DONT MATTER AND U COMMIT 'SMALL SINS' AND THEN U DIE AND DISCOVER THERE IS NOT PURGATORY, WHERE DO U THINK U WILL END UP IN? ANSWER THAT FOR YA SELF..COS IF U END UP IN HELL IT IS FOREVER.. WITHOUT END..PLEASE BE WISE. THNK YOU ALL

Thank you Brother... Even bible ask **shall we continue in sin that grace abound? It said God forbid***
Now I say ***shall we continue in sin that there's purgatory? I said God forbid.....

I see a 3rd world WAR starting from here...MY ProPhecY

italo:

One example: a 'white lie.' E.g "tell am say I no dey" when you dey.

Thank you.. Now that's an example of SIN unto DEATH..............
Remaining not unto death.

mavister: my brother, how i wish u could give us scriptural proof to substantiate that there is purgatory. U are going round and round in circles. Please

Read 1 Cor 3:15

Tell me where people suffer loss, yet are saved as through fire.

Heaven or hell?

Note: we know that no one suffers loss in heaven and no one is saved in hell.

So where is that verse talking about?

kingk:

Thank you.. Now that's an example of SIN unto DEATH..............
Remaining not unto death.

That's sin not unto death.

Example of sin unto death is murder.

kingk:


Thank you Brother... Even bible ask **shall we continue in sin that grace abound? It said God forbid***
Now I say ***shall we continue in sin that there's purgatory? I said God forbid.....

You are in line with Catholic teaching.

We reject sin even though we know purgatory exists.

Adunbi2: ...................God forgive u for u dnt knw what u are sayin, i must let u knw pugatory exist, and their are diff btw sin, some sin lead to death y some did not, if u comit sin dat did not lead to death u a goin to pugatory, but d 1 dat lead to death is hell direct.........1st john 5:16

Oga there nothing like purgatory it's either HEAVEN or HELL, now I want to relate it to Deutronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: It's either life or death, heaven or hell nothing more.

italo:

You are in line with Catholic teaching.

We reject sin even though we know purgatory exists.

Bro, am not in line with their teaching oh. Just want to throw some light in from a perspective.

...Repent and change now if you are a sinner because when you die is either you go to hell or Heaven no other way...it is advisable you decide here when you are still alive otherwise there will be no other opportunities over there..Purgatory is the DEVIL's deception and lie to win souls to his dead-end in Hell please beware sin, don't commit sin whether small,medium, light sin thinking to go to purgatory as a ticket to heaven..hmmm you will be disappointed when you get there the Bible says that the wages of sin is death ..!!!Hebrew 9:27... And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

italo:

That's sin not unto death.

Example of sin unto death is murder.

Oga, both you mentioned are all SIN unto death cos it's done DELIBERATLY.

Lady Excellency:

Matt 11:28 Come unto me (Jesus), all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Jesus never requested or made any case for an intermediary throughout his life on earth.

Secondly, never imply anything when reading or quoting the bible rather use bible passages/verses to support or trash any doubt you have.

On a lighter note, If I reason with your argument for purgatory in the thread, I presuppose that you are of the believe that there is purgatory.

That everyone in purgatory made a mistake or committed sin not unto death.

That everyone in purgatory will consequently make it to heaven hence there is no effect of earthly prayers on their transition to heaven but just a matter of time.

My question to you is: Do you encourage the living offering prayers for the dead?

At least you could have answered my question which no non-Catholic has been able to answer:

The couple at the wedding in Cana found rest in Jesus.

Through whom did they get to Jesus?

My answer to your question is yes. Please answer mine.

italo:

Between the doctrine of purgatory (Catholicism), and the doctrine of "Once saved always saved,"(Protestantism) which one encourages sin more?

Be honest.

We say if a believer sins unto death, he is headed for hell; they say a believer is destined for heaven even though he kills a whole continent.

my brother u are getting all wrong. If u say protestants believe in 'once save always saved'....is that a yardstick for u to be spreading unscriptural statements.. Personally am a protestant and i will disagree with you... I dnt believe in 'once save, always saved' as u put it..what i believe and which is biblical is that if u as a righteous man comits sin..that mares ur christian life...and u need repentance..and consequently if u as a sinner repents no matter the sin..and u decide to follow God...ur sins are forgiven..havent u seen armed robbers becoming evangelists? Because of the blood of christ...i think what ur trying to imply is that a gross sinner if he/she comes unto God cannot be forgiven wholly.... And will still be purnished in where u call 'purgatory'....a really sorry for u bro...i pray the holy ghost gives u d understanding in the bible.. Because u are contradicting the bible.. Thank you bro

Dear Catholic, pls join fellow Catholics from time to time as we share our faith on this thread: www.nairaland.com/1464338/thread-catholics/12#19270896

Its like our comfort zone on nairaland.

mavister: my brother u are getting all wrong. If u say protestants believe in 'once save always saved'....is that a yardstick for u to be spreading unscriptural statements.. Personally am a protestant and i will disagree with you... I dnt believe in 'once save, always saved' as u put it..what i believe and which is biblical is that if u as a righteous man comits sin..that mares ur christian life...and u need repentance..and consequently if u as a sinner repents no matter the sin..and u decide to follow God...ur sins are forgiven..havent u seen armed robbers becoming evangelists? Because of the blood of christ...i think what ur trying to imply is that a gross sinner if he/she comes unto God cannot be forgiven wholly.... And will still be purnished in where u call 'purgatory'....a really sorry for u bro...i pray the holy ghost gives u d understanding in the bible.. Because u are contradicting the bible.. Thank you bro

Thank you bro for this light you threw in... Another perfect example is the thief at the cross, though we don't know the level of crime(SIN) he committed though I believe it's a worse one for him to be crucified.....
But he was forgiven and went to rest (paradise or heaven). Not to pay again for his SIN in PURGATORY.

kingk:
I just copied out this quote from yours ***For sure, we know when the Bible talks about death, it's not physical death, but eternal damnation***. The question is as a believer, if I commit the sin that is not for eternal damnation, if I die will I be condemned?.... The answer is NO and NO. So where will I be then; it's either heaven or hell, for being a believer, I'll be in heaven not PURGATORY nor HELL.

You will enter heaven with your impurity?

The Roman Catholic church teaches that those who are perfect at death are admitted to heaven. Those who are not perfectly cleansed and are still tainted with the guilt of venial sins, however, do not go to heaven but rather go to purgatory where they allegedly go through a process of cleansing (or "purging". Such souls are oppressed with a sense of deprivation and suffer certain pain. How long they stay in purgatory - and how much suffering they undergo while there - depends upon their particular state of sin.
Roman Catholics also teach that a person's time in purgatory may be shortened, and his pains alleviated, by the faithful prayers and good works of those still alive. The sacrifice of the Mass is viewed as especially important in this regard. Catholics find support for this doctrine in the apocryphal book 2 Maccabees 12:42-45.
That purgatory is a false doctrine is easy to prove from the Scriptures. When Jesus died on the cross, He said "It is finished" (John 19:30). Jesus completed the work of redemption at the cross. In His high priestly prayer to the Father, Jesus said, "I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do" (John 17:4). Hebrews 10:14 emphatically declares, "By one sacrifice he has made perfect for ever those who are being made holy." Hence, those who believe in Christ are "made perfect" forever; no further "purging" is necessary. First John 1:7 says, "The blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." Romans 8:1 says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
Jesus took care of "purging" our sins by His work of salvation at the cross. Hebrews 1:3 affirms, "After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." Jesus provided full purification for our sins.

kingk:

Don't mind this Bro joor... No scripture yet no evidence yet

I have given tonnes of scriptural evidence.

Read from 1st page.

mavister: The Roman Catholic church teaches that those who are perfect at death are admitted to heaven. Those who are not perfectly cleansed and are still tainted with the guilt of venial sins, however, do not go to heaven but rather go to purgatory where they allegedly go through a process of cleansing (or "purging". Such souls are oppressed with a sense of deprivation and suffer certain pain. How long they stay in purgatory - and how much suffering they undergo while there - depends upon their particular state of sin.
Roman Catholics also teach that a person's time in purgatory may be shortened, and his pains alleviated, by the faithful prayers and good works of those still alive. The sacrifice of the Mass is viewed as especially important in this regard. Catholics find support for this doctrine in the apocryphal book 2 Maccabees 12:42-45.
That purgatory is a false doctrine is easy to prove from the Scriptures. When Jesus died on the cross, He said "It is finished" (John 19:30). Jesus completed the work of redemption at the cross. In His high priestly prayer to the Father, Jesus said, "I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do" (John 17:4). Hebrews 10:14 emphatically declares, "By one sacrifice he has made perfect for ever those who are being made holy." Hence, those who believe in Christ are "made perfect" forever; no further "purging" is necessary. First John 1:7 says, "The blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." Romans 8:1 says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
Jesus took care of "purging" our sins by His work of salvation at the cross. Hebrews 1:3 affirms, "After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." Jesus provided full purification for our sins.

and by saying this i do not mean 'once saved, always saved'...if u repent of ur sins and follow christ to the end.heaven is urs...and if u are even a reverend pastor, priest , evangelist and u commit a sin and die,,one way to hell...thank you lord

amara.lizzy%40y:
stop askin yeye questn, if ur sins are nt forgiven on earth it can't be forgiven in heaven or hell. or u want to indirectly tel m it can be 4given in purgatory.

PLEASE PEOPLE DON'T ARGUE THIS, PURGATORY DO EXIST, AND ITS A PLACE WHEREBY,U WILL SURFER FOR YOUR SINS BEFORE U CAN GO INTO HEAVEN, THE PLACE IS STILL LIKE HELL,THE FIRE IN THERE WILL PURIFY U 4RM SINS, BT NO ONE KNOWS HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE U IN THERE!

kingk:

Thank you bro for this light you threw in... Another perfect example is the thief at the cross, though we don't know the level of crime(SIN) he committed though I believe it's a worse one for him to be crucified.....
But he was forgiven and went to rest (paradise or[b] heaven[/b]). Not to pay again for his SIN in PURGATORY.

You just want to justify yourself by all means right? So the thief went to heaven that day abi? Did Jesus go to heaven that day too?

italo:

Read 1 Cor 3:15

Tell me where people suffer loss, yet are saved as through fire.

Heaven or hell?

Note: we know that no one suffers loss in heaven and no one is saved in hell.

So where is that verse talking about?

Bros, this your question is diversionary and has nothing to do with purgatory.

Let's look at the context and see what we can make out of it.

1Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

In verse 12, it talks and relates to our earthly works and services to "gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;" hence the analogy of;

Refined by fire (profitable) if they are - gold, silver, precious stones - selfless services/works

Burnt by fire (waste) if they are - wood, hay, stubble - works/services done for self glory and pride

The passage itself is not about judgement as it never relates to any sin committed or immoral character exhibited by these saints.

Verses 13 to 15 explain further by limiting the passage to reward for our (the saints) labour of love and how they were executed (selflessly or by vain-glory).

kingk:

Thank you bro for this light you threw in... Another perfect example is the thief at the cross, though we don't know the level of crime(SIN) he committed though I believe it's a worse one for him to be crucified.....
But he was forgiven and went to rest (paradise or heaven). Not to pay again for his SIN in PURGATORY.

Jesus said to the thief on Friday: "today, you will be with me in paradise."

Jesus said to Mary on Sunday: "I have not yet ascended to my Father."

Where were Jesus and the good thief between Friday and Sunday?

italo:

You will see more options if you can answer these questions honestly and clearly.

1. Does anyone suffer loss or pass through fire in heaven?

2. Is anyone saved in hell?

3. Are sins forgiven in heaven or hell?

Bros, morning.

I will love us to look at d listed above in detail from d scripture so dt we can arrive at doctrinal stand on whether purgatrory exist or not.
I appreciate d scriptures u pointed to because it showed dt u truly hav true passion for d scripture and stand for d same.

To start wit, i will giv u quick answer to listed questions which we can then look at later to compare scriptures which i kno u also believe has d final say on all issues.
Q/A

1. Does anyone suffer loss or pass through fire in heaven?

Yes, some will.

2. Is anyone saved in hell?

No, After d death/ressurection of Christ, thr is no salvation in hell.

3. Are sins forgiven in heaven or hell?

No, 4givess of sins only happen here on earth, to the living.

We can pick up from here if u want us to discuss more on ds.

Bless u.

kingk:
Oga, both you mentioned are all SIN unto death cos it's done DELIBERATLY.

Who told you that?

Lady Excellency:

Bros, this your question is diversionary and has nothing to do with purgatory.

Let's look at the context and see what we can make out of it.

1Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

In verse 12, it talks and relates to our earthly works and services to "gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;" hence the analogy of;

Refined by fire (profitable) if they are - gold, silver, precious stones - selfless services/works

Burnt by fire (waste) if they are - wood, hay, stubble - works/services done for self glory and pride

The passage itself is not about judgement as it never relates to any sin committed or immoral character exhibited by these saints.

Verses 13 to 15 explain further by limiting the passage to reward for our (the saints) labour of love and how they were executed (selflessly or by vain-glory).

1. Seriously at the bolded? so when is the "day"?
2.Verse 17 is what?

There is no evidence to suggest that Jesus Christ (PBUH) would have rejected their request had they made it directly to him with unquenchable faith.

Remember, he that asks receives

italo:

At least you could have answered my question which no non-Catholic has been able to answer:

The couple at the wedding in Cana found rest in Jesus.

Through whom did they get to Jesus?

My answer to your question is yes. Please answer mine.

mavister: my brother u are getting all wrong. If u say protestants believe in 'once save always saved'....is that a yardstick for u to be spreading unscriptural statements.. Personally am a protestant and i will disagree with you... I dnt believe in 'once save, always saved' as u put it..what i believe and which is biblical is that if u as a righteous man comits sin..that mares ur christian life...and u need repentance..and consequently if u as a sinner repents no matter the sin..and u decide to follow God...ur sins are forgiven..havent u seen armed robbers becoming evangelists? Because of the blood of christ...i think what ur trying to imply is that a gross sinner if he/she comes unto God cannot be forgiven wholly.... And will still be purnished in where u call 'purgatory'....a really sorry for u bro...i pray the holy ghost gives u d understanding in the bible.. Because u are contradicting the bible.. Thank you bro

As a believer, can you go to hell if you have unforgiven sin?

Lady Excellency: There is no evidence to suggest that Jesus Christ (PBUH) would have rejected their request had they made it directly to him with unquenchable faith.

Remember, he that asks receives

But we have a clear evidence that Mary got it for them. NO?

Lady Excellency: There is no evidence to suggest that Jesus Christ (PBUH) would have rejected their request had they made it directly to him with unquenchable faith.

Remember, he that asks receives

You haven't answered my question.

Through whom did they get to Jesus?

Simple!

italo:

I have given tonnes of scriptural evidence.

Read from 1st page.

bro..please let me ask you this. From all indication you are a devout catholic.yeah am not negating that. And you and i know that death is no respecter of age.. Now lets keep other things aside. As u believe in purgatory, i know fully well that ur life may not be completely right with God (please am not judging) because u would justify ur self by saying, afterall there is purgatory for me. Even if i die in dis small sin..i will still make heaven later. That may be at the back of your mind bro.. But let me ask you this SUPPOSE U DIE NOW, AND WITH ALL YOUR BELIEF OF PURGATORY PURGATORY AND U DISCOVER THERE IS NO SUCH PLACE AND U END UP IN HELL, WHAT WILL YOU DO?? PLS TEL ME BRO.. OR ON THE OTHER HAND U SERVE GOD WHOLEHEARTEDLY AND END UP IN HEAVEN AND U DISCOVER NO PURGATORY, WOULD U HAVE LOST ANYTHING? ASK YOURSELF THIS.. BECAUSE IF U DISCOVER AT THE END OF TIME THERE IS NO SUCH PLACE AS PURGATORY, OTHER PEOPLE WHOM YOU HAVE MISLED , GOD WILL ASK FOR THEIR BLOOD FROM YOU.. PLS THINK ABOUT THIS .THANKS AND GOD BLESS