Akola, Kitaun, Rikky
Bullseye!!!

Ibime
The fans can sing all they want, RA does not care.
Relieving Grant of his duties would only be the right thing to do. Grant lacks the tactical know how needed for top flight teams. Every time we needed to win we dropped points - Wigan, Spurs, Bolton . . . etc

I want a change of technical staff. We had Cates and Grant in place of just JM and what difference has that made?

If we do not win the CL, it's a trophyless season, meaning Cates and Grant are even worse than just JM.

javaprince:

The Golden Question I want to ask Chelsea Fans is that do they think they have the Coach to get what it takes.

I'll say NO!. All Money and no brains[technical Know-how] may and will lead to failure at the long run.
A quote from Arsenal Fans :
"It is better to lose and have a Future than to lose and have no Future"[size=8pt][/size]

What is this ? What future is in Arsenal with all your players hunting glory elsewhere?

dapsycool:

Javamessenger you are the dumbest mumu on nairaland, what future does arsenal have, trophyless for 3 seasons and presently the best of the team they claim they are building, flamini and hleb are going because of your no ambition attitude.
Stupid! Don't ever come here again.

Dapsycool you aren't cool at all. If you may know Arsenal F.C at their best is the pride of any football loving person. For the fact that a club is undergoing a little problem does not give u the right to write them off.

Look at history, great clubs in the past have come back from problems.

Also forget about players going - The management remains the same.
Or is any of the players as big as[b] "Thierry Henry"?[/b]

Ibime:

The significance is that you are now in a minority. The Shed-End is the thermometer of Chelsea. If they accept someone, he is accepted. If they dislike someone, he is finished. It is time to move on.

If Avram could take the pain when things were not going well, then surely he can take the gain when things are going well.

Shed end ko! Shed end ni!!

Roman dont give a damn about anyone not even the "say" of his players.

Mikel said few days ago that "he hardly talk and no one knows his mind"

I hope you remember how many placards of "unsack JM".

The guy dont give a damn.

@Somze, Nateeves and others

I am not very sure of the content of the following link but please read it.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/05/11/will_grant_join_greats_or_go_f.html

I hate when people tell me shit about history, it's like saying my father used to be rich but his ass is broke now, the future is bleak for arsenal till that your ijebu man,coach leaves. The guy is due for retirement. His brains are worn out. Lol Any guy i'm the coolest guy on nairaland, i just dislike arsenal fans

somze:

I want a change of technical staff. We had Cates and Grant in place of just JM and what difference has that made?

If we do not win the CL, it's a trophyless season, meaning Cates and Grant are even worse than just JM.

What are you talking about? Abi JM did not have assistants. Go and ask Barca fans what they have won since Ten Cate left. Ronaldinho and Deco said Ten Cate is the best coach they have ever worked with. Please stop all this myopic statements. Seriously Somze, this is the most retarded statement you have ever made. Ten Cate aint got nothing to do with Mourinho. He is just an assistant.

@ Ako,

The same Ballack you are giving as an excuse for our good run came out in The Sunday Times today to say he never liked Mourinho and fell out with him over the injury wahala and not being included in CL squad. He said Mourinho was trying to force him to leave. Avram came in and made him captain in December and January and he has repaid him with some good performances. Now, you are using him as excuse for us doing well. Abeg comot jare!

Ibime
Your statements beg for reasoning and relevance.

My point is simple - if we win nothing this season then JM is better than Cates + Grant put together (as those two were brought to replace him).

Let's see you argue about that before you digress to Barca as a cover up for your empty logic.

Ibime:


1) The same Ballack you are giving as an excuse for our good run came out in The Sunday Times today to say he never liked Mourinho and fell out with him over the injury wahala and not being included in CL squad.


2) He said Mourinho was trying to force him to leave. Avram came in and made him captain in December and January and he has repaid him with some good performances. Now, you are using him as excuse for us doing well. Abeg comot jare!

Our best players peaked when Rival's best fatiqued does not necessarily means Mr Ballack alone. For example Ashley has been terrific.

## I have told you times without number to STOP LYING. give us the link to your times story. Bloody liar . JM likes Michael. Only an Idiot will include Ballack in the FIRST list to UEFA when we all know he's not going to be available until Knockout stage. This is what michael said :

"The 31-year-old considered leaving Chelsea last summer as his relationship with José Mourinho, the manager at the time, reached its nadir in the row over his ankle injury, but he has flourished since returning to fitness under the more relaxed Avram Grant. The Israeli first-team coach has made it clear that he intends to build his reshaped team around Ballack if he is in charge next season and is considering a move to a 4-4-2 formation to get the most out of his goalscoring abilities. "

and this is the link : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/chelsea/article3883220.ece

I still wonder why Somze and Nateeves regularly believe your fake stories sha

somze:

Ibime
Your statements beg for reasoning and relevance.

My point is simple - if we win nothing this season then JM is better than Cates + Grant put together (as those two were brought to replace him).

Firstly, Mourinho also had an assistant so your comments about Mourinho = Grant + Cate are absurd.

Secondly, Grant has saved the season which Mourinho was throwing away so what you say doesn't make sense. The simple fact is that if the season started from Grants first day, then we have won the league so stop talking retarded. Thirdly, if we win the Champions league next wednesday, that would eclipse anything Mourinho ever did for us so save this debate for next wednesday.

Akolawole:


## I have told you times without number to STOP LYING. give us the link to your times story. Bloody liar . JM likes Michael. Only an Idiot will include Ballack in the FIRST list to UEFA when we all know he's not going to be available until Knockout stage.

Stop lying: Here is the link - Michael said he WOULD have been available. Bloody idiot!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/chelsea/article3909189.ece

Ibime:


1) Secondly, Grant has saved the season which Mourinho was throwing away so what you say doesn't make sense.

2)The simple fact is that if the season started from Grants first day, then we have won the league so stop talking retarded.

You need to be making your arguments with guys at Mama calabar, Iyabo Onigbin or Al;abama restaurant in London

Which season was JM throwing away? Sharing 11 points with United and behind Arsenal with just 2 points.

Common, do the maths.

If arsenal had won the league today, maybe you will make some sense.

I've always said Mourinho's success ought to be put in proper perspective. Besides, what we should be discussing about the Chelsea team is that they are either talent spotted, brought through the youth ranks or signed by Ranieri, such as Cech, Lampard, Terry etc. most of "Mourinho's signings" were really provided by Peter Kenyon's insights of the targets identified by Alex Fergusion. Kenyon's gardening leave after leaving Man Utd notwithstanding.

Essien, Drogba, and the notorious cases of Arjen Robben & Mikel Obi, among others were all either coveted by or had agreed to being signed by SAF. The Chelsea strategy then was to buy all the best talents that money could buy to prevent them falling into the hands of their rivals, chiefly Man Utd.
The proof being in the pudding,  after 2 seasons of success, look at the incredibly poor quality of signings made by Mourinho in the later part of his reign when the inside track on Fergie's talent scouting dried up. Claudio Pizarro instead of Santa Roque Cruz? Hilario? Sidwell? Ben Haim? Sheesh*******

Even most neutrals would feel that Obi Mikel's progress would have followed a steeper trajectory at Man Utd.
Its one thing to be able to outspend any other club in the world to the tune of on average 150 million quid per year (not including wages, look at how the highest paid 3-4 players in the EPL are Chelsea's) and create a fantasy team
overnight for success, when you have great players laid on a platter for you.

I'm not denying him credit for his tactical acumen and motivational skills. But to constantly renew and tweak the team requires YOUR OWN ABILITY to find, get, train and improve players year after year - in other words, transfer dealings is the be all and end all. Not to mention other ancillary things like being able to handle pressure, which i'm not convinced he demonstrated. He kept denying that he felt pressure, but look at the shocking differences in the pictures of him when he first signed for Chelsea and a mere 3 years later when he left! His all black hair and stubble had turned mostly grey and his relatively youthful looks had become wrinkled and haggled. Occupational hazard warning! Or should I say character deficiency warning?

Also a top manager must be able to keep all the best players. That he couldn't keep hold of Robben, Duff, Scott Parker, Gallas et al, for more than a season or 2 and only got inferior replacements in the likes of SWP, Malouda, Sidwell, Ben Haim etc,  enough said.
Those are the things that MUST be done without exception to really show ALL the qualities requried to be classed as a great manager in the unforgiving annals of footballing history.

I felt that its laughable that JM had the cheek to question SAF and Wenger's winning percentage in matches as being "only" in the 50% range! Their lengths of service in the EPL is measured in the decades, not 2 freakish years of decadent spending!
That was Mourinho's failing - him whining about not getting another 150 million quid to splash in his final year. Really quite tiresome for most neutral observers with a proper sense of rationality and perspective.

@ Akolawole,

Remember this thread? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-14130.0.html

ibime
Did you attend any sort of school? Your intelligence is begging for re-education.
1. JM's assistant Clarke IS STILL IN the club, you dullard, so your point is wiped out.
2. Even my babie sister knows Cates and Grant are JM's replacements, arguing about this is beyond reasoning. You go ahead jare,

JM was not throwing the season away. Like Akola has said please stop your incessant penchant for falsehood.

I have shown you time and time again that we were only 3 points behind Arsenal the league leaders and the same points with ManU when JM left, except you are a false prophet, you can not say what would have happened with ManU.

Take out your anti-JM, anti-Drogba and anti_lampard sentiments from your mind and you will start being pretty close to simple intelligence.

Akolawole:

Which season was JM throwing away? Sharing 11 points with United and behind Arsenal with just 2 points.

Common, do the maths.

No - Man Utd were 2 points ahead and Arsenal were also 2 points ahead with a game in hand. OK - let us do the math:

Mourinho had 11 points from 6 games i.e 1.83 points per game.

Grant has 74 points from 32 game i.e 2.31 points per game

(Mind you I am even counting his first game against Man Utd which should not be accounted against him)

Mourinho's games also included only one game against Liverpool. Grants record includes 5 against Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd.

somze:

1. JM's assistant Clarke IS STILL IN the club, you dullard, so your point is wiped out.
2. Even my babie sister knows Cates and Grant are JM's replacements, arguing about this is beyond reasoning. You go ahead jare,

Man, stop talking nonsense. Mourinho had another assistant, Baltemar Brito. Do your research.

Ibime:


1)came out in The Sunday Times today to say he never liked Mourinho


2) and fell out with him over the injury wahala and not being included in CL squad.

3)He said Mourinho was trying to force him to leave.

4) Avram came in and made him captain in December and January and he has repaid him with some good performances. Now, you are using him as excuse for us doing well. Abeg comot jare!

And from your link

That curious episode, when the club submitted to Uefa a squad list excluding Germany’s captain for the group stage of the tournament, seems distant now, but not quite reconciled in Ballack’s mind. “I could have played, but Jose [Mourinho] decided not to put me in,” he maintains. Interpretations then ranged from Chelsea in effect putting Ballack up for sale, to his being disciplined for having taken medical advice elsewhere on his ankle injury.


Liars unlimited

How could Michael played in September?  Why cant Mr Grant played him in september, October and November? Abi, JM was still witch-hunting from home?

^^^Stop arguing Salient points. For Chelsea, just substitute JM's name and all my assertions are true. I know it wasn't Peter Kenyon disciplining Ballack, it was Mourinho. We all remember the wahala that Mourinho caused when Ballack went to seek medical advice from Germany team doctors. Ballack says he was fit to play (or projected to be fit to play). If you have problem with it, go and ask him.

Seun
Please why cant you just block his IP instead giving him the privy to come up with numerous user names.

Ibime
We were on level points with Man Utd.

Your logic again is terribly flawed. Look I think you should give up. If you looked at JM's 6 games why not look at Grants first 6 games. Are you ok at all?

If you look at all Grant's games then do the same for JM and stop this bias arguments.

Meanwhile concerning assistants it is clear you know nothing of your club or even Ten Cates who was an ex-manager of Ajax by the way.

@ Akolawole,

When are u people going to stop licking Jose's ass? There is nothing to suggest Jose Mourinho could have done better than Avram Grant this season. Granted, Jose Mourinho is a brilliant manager but then a manager needs more than that to be champions. U guys should forget this mud-slinging and analyse properly.

Ibime:

No - Man Utd were 2 points ahead and Arsenal were also 2 points ahead with a game in hand. OK - let us do the math:

Mourinho had 11 points from 6 games i.e 1.83 points per game.

All my life, i like arguments based on facts NOT HEARSAY.

I am tired of this guy.

Please dispute this league table then.

http://www.chelseafc.com/page/TheFootball/LeagueTable/0,,10268~20070915,00.html

Somze - so you have given up the Mourinho = Grant + Ten Cate debate? Now you want to switch the topic? Anyway, I'm done arguing nonsense. Chelsea fans have moved on. If you like, continue living in the past.

hucarson:


When are u people going to stop licking Jose's ass? There is nothing to suggest Jose Mourinho could have done better than Avram Grant this season. Granted, Jose Mourinho is a brilliant manager but then a manager needs more than that to be champions. You guys should forget this mud-slinging and analyse properly.

I tire for this guy.

He always bring on something on JM, Drogba and Lamps. i honestly dont have problem with that BUT LIES.

I have learnt a lot from you guys here but this guy.

What is the essence of Forum then?

Akolawole:

Please dispute this league table then.

http://www.chelseafc.com/page/TheFootball/LeagueTable/0,,10268~20070915,00.html

I  cannot - you done win. I always equate the end of Jose's era with after the Man Utd game. Hence the points discrepancy. My mistake.

Akolawole:

I tire for this guy.

He always bring on something on JM, Drogba and Lamps. i honestly don't have problem with that BUT LIES.

I have learnt a lot from you guys here but this guy.

What is the essence of Forum then?

I am not Hucarson. He even has more posts than me. Abi, am I the only one with these views on Mourinho?

@ Ibime,

Akolawole and I have been debating this issue since the summer of 2006. One thing u must be aware of is the undying love of Mourinho by some Chelsea fans. Majority of them supported Chelsea because of Jose so i am not surprised. Jose was losing the plot and that was why he forced Roman's hands to be sacked. Jose lost to Aston Villa and draw blanks against Blackburn at SB. What about the draw against Rosenborg @ the Bridge!!!!
Grant deserves some credit, he would have won the title if Jose had kept Chelsea in the top 2 before Grant's arrival.

^^^ I am sure they will celebrate if we lose the CL final because they don't want anyone to eclipse Jose's achievements. I don't know whether they are Chelsea fans or not.

hucarson:


Grant deserves some credit, he would have won the title if Jose had kept Chelsea in the top 2 before Grant's arrival.

Are you now a beer parlour analyst?


http://www.chelseafc.com/page/TheFootball/LeagueTable/0,,10268~20070915,00.html

13 points to 11 points.

We are level on points to United, so what do you have to say?

somze:



Your logic again is terribly flawed. Look I think you should give up. If you looked at JM's 6 games why not look at Grants first 6 games. Are you ok at all?

If you look at all Grant's games then do the same for JM and stop this bias arguments.

Do you want me to compare Grants record with Jose Mourinho's 83 points of last season or do you want me to go all the way back to 2005?

@ Akolawole,

Chelsea was level on points with Man United who was in ASCENDANCY. Fergie's season started with a stutter. No Rooney, Ronaldo and Saha. United dropped 7 points in the first 3 games. The season was plunging to disaster until United got victories against Tottenham, Sunderland and Everton.
Pretty much, United was settling before meeting Chelsea that just lost their manager. There was no spirit and togetherness and most players were out injured. You have to give credits to Avram Grant for what he has done this season especially with the 3rd-rated players Jose bought this season.

Akolawole:

And from your link

1)came out in The Sunday Times today to say he never liked Mourinho


2) and fell out with him over the injury wahala and not being included in CL squad.

3)He said Mourinho was trying to force him to leave.

4) Avram came in and made him captain in December and January and he has repaid him with some good performances. Now, you are using him as excuse for us doing well. Abeg comot jare!


That curious episode, when the club submitted to Uefa a squad list excluding Germany’s captain for the group stage of the tournament, seems distant now, but not quite reconciled in Ballack’s mind. “I could have played, but Jose [Mourinho] decided not to put me in,” he maintains. Interpretations then ranged from Chelsea in effect putting Ballack up for sale, to his being disciplined for having taken medical advice elsewhere on his ankle injury.


Liars unlimited

How could Michael played in September?  Why can't Mr Grant played him in september, October and November? Abi, JM was still witch-hunting from home?

Firstly, I was not quoting directly from the Times, just expressing my own deduction from the paper I read in the morning as well as many other articles that have been written on the subject - so to accuse me of barefaced lying as you have done is wholly inappropriate. Secondly the statement "he never liked Mourinho" is an English coloqial expression for "he didn't like Mourinho" - not to say he NEVER liked him. Obviously, he liked him in the beginning otherwise he would not have signed for Chelsea. Just to clear that up before you misconstrue what I am saying.

Now, if you have issue with that, fine - but everything I stated was correct . . .
Mourinho wanted to force him out . . and he was unhappy with Mourinho for leaving him out of Champions League. So where are these lies that you keep harping on about?

It is not like anyting I have said is News. They have been written about extensively in the Press. Although I am sure you will question their validity as you did with the Drogba quotes.

If I tell you that John Terry has asked Abramovic to keep Avram Grant, I am sure you will also say I am lying. Maybe you know better than John Terry whether Avram is competent or not. I was also against Avram but I reserve the right to change my mind. I was also very pro-Mourinho but I reserve the right to change my mind also. I have never criticised Mourinho for his performance pre-2006/2007. I am also starting to change my mind about whether Anelka is suitable for Chelsea or not - just as you guys argued. Like I said, if Avram can take the blame, he can also take the gain. Based on this season's performances, he deserves another full season to prove himself.


As for Ballack and Mourinho . . . . .


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_page_id=1779&in_article_id=564451


He is smiling again, certain of his place in the team and becoming increasingly popular among the supporters in The Shed. Ballack is a special player with a special talent.

Rewind the tape 12 months, though, and it was a different script. He hobbled off the pitch at Newcastle on April 27, 2007, following a tackle by Titus Bramble and then all bets were off.

Named as one of nine 'Untouchables' by that mischief-maker Jose Mourinho, he became exactly that when it emerged that he travelled to Munich for an operation on his injured ankle.

Mourinho wanted him sacked, Ballack produced a piece of chipped bone the size of a nail clipping in a glass jar and Chelsea ultimately had to issue an apology.

That injury forced him to miss the Champions League semi-final against Liverpool and the FA Cup Final against Manchester United, but the ultimate insult was saved for September.

Mourinho left him out of the 25-man squad for the Champions League group stages, claiming his injury prevented him from playing against Rosenborg, Valencia and Schalke. Ballack was hurt but by then Mourinho was hurtling towards the exit.



Anyway, that is not the point. The point is this - the same Ballack that you are using as a scapegoat for Avram Grant's success - if Mourinho had his way, Ballack would not even be at Chelsea because he was ready to sell him. Only that Real Madrid were stalling over the asking price and the wage demands.

Akola
Are you still arguing about these lies. Ibime has accepted he was wrong about the positioning but the other one has been a liar from the very beginning.
Imagine saying JM lost the plot and our season was over . . . liars never change.

Ibime
Remove the mole from your eye . . . Baltemar was hired by JM's (more like at his suggestion), Ten Cates was hired by RA. Stop being dull. A manager picks his assistant not the club. Since RA picked Cates then it is clear that he and Grant were JM's replacement. Cates is actually here to work on our movement and formation on the pitch.

JM is clearly better than these two.