therealMcCain:

my question is the christian who constantly uses such words(there are lots of other variants) what will be the consequences/effects of such words in his/her life?


just to buttress my point we all know the christian is not supposed to commit adultery, so if asked what will happen if a married christian impregnates another lady? you dont answer by saying "that man is not a christian or a christian cant do such etc" you go ahead to state what will happen or how the church will handle such case

therealMcCain:

this is me asking you brother drummaboy, please what do these verses mean?

thanks

OK.

I will attend to your question to the best that my time can permit because Q and A is not the purpose of this thread, its an aside.

I have answered the meaning of the scriptures as listed by mcphee earlier, therefore I will not be touching on those. But I will attend to the question you bolded.

IS THERE A CONSEQUENCE FOR A CHRISTIAN WHO CONTINUALLY SPEAKS NEGATIVELY?

Is there a consequence for a Christian continually indulging in fornication or adultery?

The answer to the two questions is "yes". And the reason is obvious.

But should this two questions not lead us to the true meaning of who a Christian is?

While you do not wish for me to relate this discuss to WOF; that wish is impossible for me to fulfill because the thread is on that subject and virtually everything wrong with the church can be traced to it. So forgive me for again having to refer to them.

WOF has set up systems in much of Christendom. It ranges from "How to give yourself out of poverty"; "How to achieve Breakthroughs"; "How to Attain Blissful Marriages"; "How to Excel in Academics"; and even "How to becomw a Christian". You may not have read any such books but the methodologies abound in church: preach a powerful evangelistic message; bring people to the point of guilt; make an altar call; tell the: "say after me 'Lord Jesus...' "; alas, you are now a Christian. The individual leaves church thinking he is a Christian. There no changed life; there is no encounter with the Savior; he simply joins a community of Christians. They teach him to tithe to make wealth. They teach to speak in tongues. They teach him to speak positively to get result. They warn him of the consequences of not doing these things. In all, he is taught by men the "doctrines of men"; he doesn't know God. He doesn't know what is to be taught by God. That is where I believe the question of "what is the consequence of negative speaking or adultery" came from.

So you can see that while I do not refuse the fact that there are consequences in the Christian life, I am convinced your question is taken from the wrong end.

In my earlier answers, I remember emphasizing the born again man. The man who has met Jesus. The man who knows God and God knows him, like David. The man whom God instructs by his Spirit. Can this man commit adultery? Yes. Will he reap the consequence like David? Yes. Can he speak negatively? Yes. Should he speak negatively. No. Because scripture and the Spirit in him instructs him otherwise. If he does are there consequences? Yes. In either cases does this individual cease being God child? No. Does God have a plan to sanctify him in life from adultery and negative speaking? Yes. Do we have the ability to help God in this work of sanctification? No. Are we called to walk in the Spirit, and thus cooperate with the Spirit in this work of sanctification? Yes. Is it my duty to dictate to another how God will achieve this sanctification? No. Do I have enough business with my own work of sanctification not to poke my nose another person's? Yes.

Again I return to the formulae concept of Christianity that WOF bandy around. It is antiChrist. Christians are enjoined to be Christians: consequences or no consequences. God is our Father, he knows how to work out all that concerns us. We must however mind what we believe because that one has eternal consequences. A false gospel that turns Christianity into a formula and disdains God's sovereignty will damn the souls of men and not just give negative consequences in life.

PS

As to the exact consequences of negative speaking in a believer who indulges it, I don't know. I am not God. But if he is a son, a true one, I believe that whatever consequence, good or bad, will further aid his sanctification in life: thus all things working out for his good.

therealMcCain:

pls i have stated it that my intention is to learn, so pls address my question from the angle of a christian wanting to know the meaning/application of those verses in his or her life. disregard the wof stand or any other impression you have of me

this is me asking you brother drummaboy, please what do these verses mean?

thanks

Hi bro, would you mind if I offer to discuss your question and share some insight with you? Also I wouldn't want to usurp the position of the lead discussants or derail the thread so would you accept if we can schedule our discourse till after the presentation?

I'm a learner too and believe we could sharpen each other's spiritual knowledge and christian life.

@nannymcphee, sister, pls you're included in my offer to our brother

Cheers

Candour:

Hi bro, would you mind if I offer to discuss your question and share some insight with you? Also I wouldn't want to usurp the position of the lead discussants or derail the thread so would you accept if we can schedule our discourse till after the presentation?

I'm a learner too and believe we could sharpen each other's spiritual knowledge and christian life.

@nannymcphee, sister, pls you're included in my offer to our brother

Cheers

Candour,

I am speaking for the lead discussants here, you have our full permission to answer their questions.

In fact, having posted about the last point on F9, this point is taken as a sort of INTERLUDE to shed light through Q and A.

It is clear that the duo asking the questions have sincere motives and we welcome their questions.

BabaGnoni and trustman I believe I have your go ahead on this.

nannymcphee:
pls i need clarification here, who was jesus referring to?

ON STEPPING ON SERPENTS, DRINKING POISON... EVEN HEALING EBOLA(!).

Let me say upfront that since you did not quote, I cannot speak authoritatively on this. BabaG will do that very soon. I also trust that Candour will help but this is my little bit...

nannymcphee:
pls i need clarification here, who was jesus referring to?

ON STEPPING ON SERPENTS, DRINKING POISON... EVEN HEALING EBOLA(!).

Let me say upfront that since you did not quote me, I cannot speak authoritatively on this. BabaG will do that very soon. I also trust that Candour will help but this is my little bit...

There is an incidence in Acts 27 where Paul was picking sticks and was stung by a viper. He did not die.

When I was young, I remember my Dad showing me the picture of a man in a newspaper torn to pieces in an Ibadan zoo. The man claimed he was Daniel. Entered the zoo and today he's history.

What's the difference between the two: faith and presumption. Satan told Jesus to jump from a height; Christ taught us from that incidence not to test God. Should Christians go around looking for snakes to step on, poison to drink or Ebola to heal? No. That will be presumptuous. If the Christian finds himself in that state, should he trust God for deliverance? Yes.

The recent statement by Pastor Itua Ighodalo on his Facebook page is an irresponsible one, to say the least. Its one of the shame that WOF continues to bring the body of Christ. Ighodalo, sometimes last week, went on Facebook to say that Christians need not fear Ebola. That John G. Lake was known to cure Ebola (he later corrected himself and called it the bubonic plague). So Christians can also cure Ebola. His statement drew widespread condemnation that led him to be begin making lame excuses.

Christians are not asked to go looking for Ebola o. But if they find themselves in trouble, God is able to save them. Two US doctors recently infected with the Ebola virus are Christians. On the break of the disease in West Africa, they joined a medical team from the US to come help helpless Africans. They were infected while treating the diseases. The two of them were flown to the US this week and are presently undergoing treatment. They are said to be responding to treatment. Ebola Drugs that had been manufactured and that have worked 100% on monkeys are being used on them and their health are improving. This is what BabaGnoni meant by medical miracles. If those drugs work, and they recover these two believing doctors would have helped the world discover the cure to Ebola. By laying down their lives, they are saving lives. 1 Jn 3:16

That is having a sense of responsibility as a Christian. Not sitting in your cozy AC office chatting up nonsense on Facebook about John G Lake whose ministry was characterized with scandals and lies till his death.

So, my sister, God can work miracles. But God has not called us to test him or walk presumptuously.

lol, see dodgings and rescues oh. Where are the F presentations.
Oh boy, even Dr. Lake manages to catch something.

DrummaBoy:

ON STEPPING ON SERPENTS, DRINKING POISON... EVEN HEALING EBOLA(!).

Let me say upfront that since you did not quote me, I cannot speak authoritatively on this. BabaG will do that very soon. I also trust that Candour will help but this is my little bit...

There is an incidence in Acts 27 where Paul was picking sticks and was stung by a viper. He did not die.

When I was young, I remember my Dad showing me the picture of a man in a newspaper torn to pieces in an Ibadan zoo. The man claimed he was Daniel. Entered the zoo and today he's history.

What's the difference between the two: faith and presumption. Satan told Jesus to jump from a height; Christ taught us from that incidence not to test God. Should Christians go around looking for snakes to step on, poison to drink or Ebola to heal? No. That will be presumptuous. If the Christian finds himself in that state, should he trust God for deliverance? Yes.

The recent statement by Pastor Itua Ighodalo on his Facebook page is an irresponsible one, to say the least. Its one of the shame that WOF continues to bring the body of Christ. Ighodalo, sometimes last week, went on Facebook to say that Christians need not fear Ebola. That John G. Lake was known to cure Ebola (he later corrected himself and called it the bobanic plague). So Christians can also cure Ebola. His statement drew widespread condemnation that led him to be making lame excuses lately.

Christians are not asked to go looking for Ebola o. But if they find themselves in trouble, God is able to save them. Two US doctors recently infested with the Ebola virus are Christians. On the break of the disease in West Africa, they joined a medical team from the US to come help helpless Africans. They were infested while treating the diseases. The two of them were flown to the US this week and are presently undergoing treatment. They are said to be responding to treatment. Ebola Drugs that had been manufactured and that have worked 100% on monkeys are being used on them and their health are improving. This is what BabaGnoni meant by medical miracles. If those drugs work, and they recover these two believing doctors would have helped the world discover the cure to Ebola. By laying down their lives, they are saving lives. 1 Jn 3:16

That is having a sense of responsibility as a Christian. Not sitting in your cozy AC office chatting up nonsense on Facebook about John G Lake whose ministry was characterized with scandals and lies till his death.

So, my sister, God can work miracles. But God has not called us to test him or walk presumptuously.

I understand all the above, it's also foolishness for a Christian to go stand in front of a Mack truck & claim to have power or try walking on water or to hold an electric wire but I know if he finds himself in that position maybe thru accident then God may or may not deliver him

But babaG said its not for 21st century Christians, that's the part I want to understand

Candour:

Hi bro, would you mind if I offer to discuss your question and share some insight with you? Also I wouldn't want to usurp the position of the lead discussants or derail the thread so would you accept if we can schedule our discourse till after the presentation?

I'm a learner too and believe we could sharpen each other's spiritual knowledge and christian life.

@nannymcphee, sister, pls you're included in my offer to our brother

Cheers

Thanks for the invite, count me in

Two US doctors recently infested with the Ebola virus are Christians. On the break of the disease in West Africa, they joined a medical team from the US to come help helpless Africans. They were infested while treating the diseases. The two of them were flown to the US this week and are presently undergoing treatment. They are said to be responding to treatment. Ebola Drugs that had been manufactured and that have worked 100% on monkeys are being used on them and their health are improving. This is what BabaGnoni meant by medical miracles. If those drugs work, and they recover these two believing doctors would have helped the world discover the cure to Ebola. By laying down their lives, they are saving lives. 1 Jn 3:16

The doctor belong to the samaritian purse a christian organisation the head is franklin graham the son of Billy Graham so I know what this two peole get the drug, why they didnot give this drug to the doctor from siera leone who save the live of more than 100 people and he just died one week before, germany want to help him but they have no drugs for him, they want to bring him to germany but he died before.

I feel that they got this drugs money was the key!

read about the organisation and look at their homepage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan%27s_Purse

Why doctors without border they worrk in the same country and all this doctors are still alive because they know how they have to work!

My O My. This thread should be bookmarked for future reference. Geeeez. They gathered to shoot down the gospel and ended up shooting their own teachings while at it yet the gospel remained intact.

See desperados everywhere dodging and dodging with many words yet nothing is being said. No serious Christian should take this fiasco serious.

Nlmediator, Gombs y'all need to read the last 2 pages. I'm laughing my eyes out.

nannymcphee:

I understand all the above, it's also foolishness for a Christian to go stand in front of a Mack truck & claim to have power or try walking on water or to hold an electric wire but I know if he finds himself in that position maybe thru accident then God may or may not deliver him

But babaG said its not for 21st century Christians, that's the part I want to understand

I am sure BabaG will explain what he means when he comes. This is the much that I know.

nannymcphee:

Thanks for the invite, count me in

Thanks sister, I still believe however that the discussion will be better suited for the end of this presentation so as not to stop the flow of this thread. It will be a discussion where we get to look at it from each other's perspective.

Also I would want to wet your appetite and that of therealMcCain by adding to his original focus. He wanted to know

If negative confessions, statements e.g I'm barren, I'm a failure etc have effects on Christians based on the scriptures you quoted.

I'll add the following

Do negative confessions have effects on non Christians?

Do positive confessions have effects on Christians? Do they also have effect on non Christians

Does it matter that those God spoke about at Babel where immoral pagans? Or simply because the episode is in the bible, we can appropriate it as Christians?

Its a discussion brethren. Pls think about them and let's discuss them together.

Cheers

trustman:

WoF teachers' theory about the cross is that when Jesus died on the cross he became "sin" and was imputed with Satan's nature, abandoned by the Father

DrummaBoy:
...

2corinthian5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

I have been taught that what separates the unbeliever from the believer is their nature. The sinner has the nature of sin which is of the devil while the Christian has the nature of Christ.

Does this verse not show or prove that Jesus became sin for our sakes i.e that the sin of mankind was laid on him


Mark15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Wasn't Jesus abandoned by God at this point?

Candour:

Thanks sister, I still believe however that the discussion will be better suited for the end of this presentation so as not to stop the flow of this thread. It will be a discussion where we get to look at it from each other's perspective.

Also I would want to wet your appetite and that of therealMcCain by adding to his original focus. He wanted to know

If negative confessions, statements e.g I'm barren, I'm a failure etc have effects on Christians based on the scriptures you quoted.

I'll add the following

Do negative confessions have effects on non Christians?

Do positive confessions have effects on Christians? Do they also have effect on non Christians

Does it matter that those God spoke about at Babel where immoral pagans? Or simply because the episode is in the bible, we can appropriate it as Christians?

Its a discussion brethren. Pls think about them and let's discuss them together.

Cheers

Thanks I'll answer them soon

nannymcphee:



2corinthian5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

I have been taught that what separates the unbeliever from the believer is their nature. The sinner has the nature of sin which is of the devil while the Christian has the nature of Christ.

Does this verse not show or prove that Jesus became sin for our sakes i.e that the sin of mankind was laid on him


Mark15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Wasn't Jesus abandoned by God at this point?

2 Corinthians 5:21 Contemporary English Version puts it this way:
"Christ never sinned! But God treated him as a sinner, so that Christ could make us acceptable to God".


My complete post is as follows:

WoF teachers' theory about the cross is that when Jesus died on the cross he became "sin" and was imputed with Satan's nature, abandoned by the Father, and went to hell for three days and three nights where he was tortured by the devil. According to most of the well known WoF teachers, Jesus did not complete his work of redemption upon the cross. Nowhere in the Bible is that taught nor the story that Jesus was tormented by Satan in hell.

First, let’s look at an Old Testament prototype – the Day of Atonement (Leviticus16) and indeed all the other animal sacrifices. The animals involved did not become the sinners. They were only ‘imputed’ with the sins of the people. The animals died the death the people deserved even though they committed no sin directly.

On the cross, Jesus died for our sins. In other words he died the death we all deserve because "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). He paid the penalty for every sin ever committed. He was treated as if he was guilty of mankind's sins. The sins of mankind were judged in him on the cross. That is the sins of mankind were charged to the impeccable humanity of Christ. That DID NOT MAKE him a sinner. He remained holy all through.

That is why i said again:

Therefore Jesus did not take on a satanic nature at the cross. As the sin offering under the New Covenant he remained pure, righteous and holy on the cross.
• 1 Peter 3:18 – “For Christ also suffered once for sin, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death
in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”
• Hebrews 10:10 – “And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”
• Colossians 1:21,22 – "And you, … …he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless
and above reproach before him”

In addition, the One mankind sinned against is God not the devil. God did not and still does not owe the devil any payment. Therefore to claim that the devil was in anyway involved in the resolution of mankind's sin problem is completely unfounded.

As for the rest of your post i hope my complete initial posting above should have put it in proper perspective.

nannymcphee:


Mark15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Wasn't Jesus abandoned by God at this point?

Forgive my answering this late. I was hoping to post after trustman whose post you quoted. I have a quote from a website that answers your question directly. I will paste the quote here but I request that you go to the link and read the whole article. The discussion was on Jesus Spiritual Death:

One must distinguish between what is
didactic (meant for instruction, and in
this instance: biblical doctrine and
theory), and what is narrative as in the
example of Matthew's account of Jesus'
death. When Matthew records the words
of Christ, "My God, My God, why hast
thou forsaken Me?" (Mat. 27:46) he does
this as the account to what transpired
before the eyes of witnesses, and not as
a teaching on the atoning work of Christ.
In his book Did Jesus Die Spiritually?,

Hobart E. Freeman writes,
What are we to make of our Lord's
statement "My God, My God, why hast
thou forsaken Me?" First, this cry of
despair was not merely spontaneous, but
Jesus was well aware that He was
reciting a quotation from a prophetic
passage, Psa. 22:1. King David first
uttered these words in the midst of
suffering trials. But these words also
have an application to the Messiah, as do
numerous other Old Testament passages.
[Hobart E. Freeman, Did Jesus Die
Spiritually? (Warsaw, Ind.: Faith
Ministries and Publications, n.d.), p.
39.].

I would advise one read Psalm 22 if
not entirely certain what its content is
for personal clarification.
Psalm 22 is entirely prophetic, having
reference to the crucifixion of Christ.
Jesus truly in agony in Psalm 22
identifies Himself as the One of whom
the prophetic Psalm spoke. Such
prophetic statements are foreordained
expressions to fulfill the Old Testament
prophets predictions.


An interesting but flawed illustration
used by many Bible teachers to describe
the separation between Father and Son
is the picturesque explanation of how the
Father had to turn His head from His
Son when the sins of the world were
dumped on Him. Psalm 22, however,
repudiates this illustration by stating
that exactly the opposite happened; the
Father did not turn away from His Son,
but looked upon Him with care.
" For he hath not despised nor abhorred
the affliction of the afflicted; neither
hath he hid his face from him; but when
he cried unto him, he heard." (Psa.
22:24)

Please take your time to read Psalm 22 and see what the author above is saying. Verse 1, where he exclaimed why has God forsaken him, was the anguish cry of a suffering man. It all looked as if God had forsaken him. And don't we feel so too in our sufferings? But alas, verse 24 gives us the clear picture: "... nor has he turned his face away from him. When he cried he heard him." God was with Jesus, like he is with us, all through his stay on the cross. If he said to us "I would never leave you nor forsake you," he would then have been lying to forsake Jesus even if it was for a moment on the cross.

www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith2.html

DrummaBoy:

Forgive my answering this late. I was hoping to post after trustman whose post you quoted. I have a quote from a website that answers your question directly. I will paste the quote here but I request that you go to the link and read the whole article. The discussion was on Jesus Spiritual Death:

One must distinguish between what is
didactic (meant for instruction, and in
this instance: biblical doctrine and
theory), and what is narrative as in the
example of Matthew's account of Jesus'
death. When Matthew records the words
of Christ, "My God, My God, why hast
thou forsaken Me?" (Mat. 27:46) he does
this as the account to what transpired
before the eyes of witnesses, and not as
a teaching on the atoning work of Christ.
In his book Did Jesus Die Spiritually?,

Hobart E. Freeman writes,
What are we to make of our Lord's
statement "My God, My God, why hast
thou forsaken Me?" First, this cry of
despair was not merely spontaneous, but
Jesus was well aware that He was
reciting a quotation from a prophetic
passage, Psa. 22:1. King David first
uttered these words in the midst of
suffering trials. But these words also
have an application to the Messiah, as do
numerous other Old Testament passages.
[Hobart E. Freeman, Did Jesus Die
Spiritually? (Warsaw, Ind.: Faith
Ministries and Publications, n.d.), p.
39.].

I would advise one read Psalm 22 if
not entirely certain what its content is
for personal clarification.
Psalm 22 is entirely prophetic, having
reference to the crucifixion of Christ.
Jesus truly in agony in Psalm 22
identifies Himself as the One of whom
the prophetic Psalm spoke. Such
prophetic statements are foreordained
expressions to fulfill the Old Testament
prophets predictions.


An interesting but flawed illustration
used by many Bible teachers to describe
the separation between Father and Son
is the picturesque explanation of how the
Father had to turn His head from His
Son when the sins of the world were
dumped on Him. Psalm 22, however,
repudiates this illustration by stating
that exactly the opposite happened; the
Father did not turn away from His Son,
but looked upon Him with care.
" For he hath not despised nor abhorred
the affliction of the afflicted; neither
hath he hid his face from him; but when
he cried unto him, he heard." (Psa.
22:24)

Please take your time to read Psalm 22 and see what the author above is saying. Verse 1, where he exclaimed why has God forsaken him, was the anguish cry of a suffering man. It all looked as if God had forsaken him. And don't we feel so too in our sufferings? But alas, verse 24 gives us the clear picture: "... nor has he turned his face away from him. When he cried he heard him." God was with Jesus, like he is with us, all through his stay on the cross. If he said to us "I would never leave you nor forsake you," he would then have been lying to forsake Jesus even if it was for a moment on the cross.

www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith2.html

Wow, I need time to digest these, I haven't heard it from this angle before

trustman:

2 Corinthians 5:21 Contemporary English Version puts it this way:
"Christ never sinned! But God treated him as a sinner, so that Christ could make us acceptable to God".


My complete post is as follows:


First, let’s look at an Old Testament prototype – the Day of Atonement (Leviticus16) and indeed all the other animal sacrifices. The animals involved did not become the sinners. They were only ‘imputed’ with the sins of the people. The animals died the death the people deserved even though they committed no sin directly.

On the cross, Jesus died for our sins. In other words he died the death we all deserve because "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). He paid the penalty for every sin ever committed. He was treated as if he was guilty of mankind's sins. The sins of mankind were judged in him on the cross. That is the sins of mankind were charged to the impeccable humanity of Christ. That DID NOT MAKE him a sinner. He remained holy all through.

That is why i said again:

In addition, the One mankind sinned against is God not the devil. God did not and still does not owe the devil any payment. Therefore to claim that the devil was in anyway involved in the resolution of mankind's sin problem is completely unfounded.

As for the rest of your post i hope my complete initial posting above should have put it in proper perspective.

how do u explain Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

How was he made a curse for us?

I checked about 13 translations for 2corin5:21, they all said "he was made sin"

nannymcphee:

how do u explain Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

How was he made a curse for us?

I checked about 13 translations for 2corin5:21, they all said "he was made sin"

To be made sin, like trustman has said, is to have been imputed with sin. Not that sin was his nature on the cross. He took up the sin of the world. The way the lamb in the OT will bear the sin of Israel.

1Cor 5:21 actually describes it perfectly.

He was made sin that we might be the righteousness of God in him.

Sin was imputed on Christ for our redemption.

Righteousness is imputed on us because of Christ work on the cross.

This imputed righteousness gives us right standing with God. It is our only hope of going to heaven. In reality, we are not righteous, it is what is imputed that makes us righteous. The reality of the cross was that Jesus was God's holy Lamb taking on the sin of the world that we might have his righteousness. Jesus true nature remained holy through the ordeal.

Hallelujah!

Same thing applies to the matter of curse. We were under a curse: the soul that sins shall die. Same way Adam was doomed to die after sinning. But Jesus took up that curse for us. He died so we may live.

Hallelujah!!

Hallelujah!!!

DrummaBoy:

OK.

I will attend to your question to the best that my time can permit because Q and A is not the purpose of this thread, its an aside.

I have answered the meaning of the scriptures as listed by mcphee earlier, therefore I will not be touching on those. But I will attend to the question you bolded.

IS THERE A CONSEQUENCE FOR A CHRISTIAN WHO CONTINUALLY SPEAKS NEGATIVELY?

Is there a consequence for a Christian continually indulging in fornication or adultery?

The answer to the two questions is "yes". And the reason is obvious.

But should this two questions not lead us to the true meaning of who a Christian is?

While you do not wish for me to relate this discuss to WOF; that wish is impossible for me to fulfill because the thread is on that subject and virtually everything wrong with the church can be traced to it. So forgive me for again having to refer to them.

WOF has set up systems in much of Christendom. It ranges from "How to give yourself out of poverty"; "How to achieve Breakthroughs"; "How to Attain Blissful Marriages"; "How to Excel in Academics"; and even "How to becomw a Christian". You may not have read any such books but the methodologies abound in church: preach a powerful evangelistic message; bring people to the point of guilt; make an altar call; tell the: "say after me 'Lord Jesus...' "; alas, you are now a Christian. The individual leaves church thinking he is a Christian. There no changed life; there is no encounter with the Savior; he simply joins a community of Christians. They teach him to tithe to make wealth. They teach to speak in tongues. They teach him to speak positively to get result. They warn him of the consequences of not doing these things. In all, he is taught by men the "doctrines of men"; he doesn't know God. He doesn't know what is to be taught by God. That is where I believe the question of "what is the consequence of negative speaking or adultery" came from.

So you can see that while I do not refuse the fact that there are consequences in the Christian life, I am convinced your question is taken from the wrong end.

In my earlier answers, I remember emphasizing the born again man. The man who has met Jesus. The man who knows God and God knows him, like David. The man whom God instructs by his Spirit. Can this man commit adultery? Yes. Will he reap the consequence like David? Yes. Can he speak negatively? Yes. Should he speak negatively. No. Because scripture and the Spirit in him instructs him otherwise. If he does are there consequences? Yes. In either cases does this individual cease being God child? No. Does God have a plan to sanctify him in life from adultery and negative speaking? Yes. Do we have the ability to help God in this work of sanctification? No. Are we called to walk in the Spirit, and thus cooperate with the Spirit in this work of sanctification? Yes. Is it my duty to dictate to another how God will achieve this sanctification? No. Do I have enough business with my own work of sanctification not to poke my nose another person's? Yes.

Again I return to the formulae concept of Christianity that WOF bandy around. It is antiChrist. Christians are enjoined to be Christians: consequences or no consequences. God is our Father, he knows how to work out all that concerns us. We must however mind what we believe because that one has eternal consequences. A false gospel that turns Christianity into a formula and disdains God's sovereignty will damn the souls of men and not just give negative consequences in life.

PS

As to the exact consequences of negative speaking in a believer who indulges it, I don't know. I am not God. But if he is a son, a true one, I believe that whatever consequence, good or bad, will further aid his sanctification in life: thus all things working out for his good.

Potent...the crux of the matter

DrummaBoy:

Forgive my answering this late. I was hoping to post after trustman whose post you quoted. I have a quote from a website that answers your question directly. I will paste the quote here but I request that you go to the link and read the whole article. The discussion was on Jesus Spiritual Death:

One must distinguish between what is
didactic (meant for instruction, and in
this instance: biblical doctrine and
theory), and what is narrative as in the
example of Matthew's account of Jesus'
death. When Matthew records the words
of Christ, "My God, My God, why hast
thou forsaken Me?" (Mat. 27:46) he does
this as the account to what transpired
before the eyes of witnesses, and not as
a teaching on the atoning work of Christ.
In his book Did Jesus Die Spiritually?,

Hobart E. Freeman writes,
What are we to make of our Lord's
statement "My God, My God, why hast
thou forsaken Me?" First, this cry of
despair was not merely spontaneous, but
Jesus was well aware that He was
reciting a quotation from a prophetic
passage, Psa. 22:1. King David first
uttered these words in the midst of
suffering trials. But these words also
have an application to the Messiah, as do
numerous other Old Testament passages.
[Hobart E. Freeman, Did Jesus Die
Spiritually? (Warsaw, Ind.: Faith
Ministries and Publications, n.d.), p.
39.].

I would advise one read Psalm 22 if
not entirely certain what its content is
for personal clarification.
Psalm 22 is entirely prophetic, having
reference to the crucifixion of Christ.
Jesus truly in agony in Psalm 22
identifies Himself as the One of whom
the prophetic Psalm spoke. Such
prophetic statements are foreordained
expressions to fulfill the Old Testament
prophets predictions.


An interesting but flawed illustration
used by many Bible teachers to describe
the separation between Father and Son
is the picturesque explanation of how the
Father had to turn His head from His
Son when the sins of the world were
dumped on Him. Psalm 22, however,
repudiates this illustration by stating
that exactly the opposite happened; the
Father did not turn away from His Son,
but looked upon Him with care.
" For he hath not despised nor abhorred
the affliction of the afflicted; neither
hath he hid his face from him; but when
he cried unto him, he heard." (Psa.
22:24)

Please take your time to read Psalm 22 and see what the author above is saying. Verse 1, where he exclaimed why has God forsaken him, was the anguish cry of a suffering man. It all looked as if God had forsaken him. And don't we feel so too in our sufferings? But alas, verse 24 gives us the clear picture: "... nor has he turned his face away from him. When he cried he heard him." God was with Jesus, like he is with us, all through his stay on the cross. If he said to us "I would never leave you nor forsake you," he would then have been lying to forsake Jesus even if it was for a moment on the cross.

www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith2.html

lolololol, drumb is being courteous, there's reason for worry be that. Anyway, so you're saying Jesus was not forsaken by God but lied when He clearly said "why have You forsaken Me"? Or was He naming and claiming what was not?

Candour:
.......

Do negative confessions have effects on non Christians?

in my opinion YES


Does it matter that those God spoke about at Babel where immoral pagans? Or simply because the episode is in the bible, we can appropriate it as Christians?

in my opinion, it doesnt count in the sense that whether or not they were pagans, God spoke his observations and it was a generic one regardless of their state, so in today whether it is the bornagain or the unbeliever whatever he sets his mind to accomplish that he will accomplish(there are limitations though eg the sovereignty of God, the right to to use or appropriate what ever he wants to do eg the unbeliever has no business laying claims to the promises meant for the believer i.e put on the whole Armour of God-thats for the believer not the unbeliever)

proverbs 21:13

Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard

this is a generic word, it covers every man on earth, its not specific to the christian but to everybody, it is in this same light that i view the statement that God made with respect to the tower of babel

Gen11:6
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

is the above not a daily proof in the lives of men, any group, association that is united usually ends up achieving what they have set out to achieve!!

Candour:

.......

Do positive confessions have effects on Christians?

YES


if i might ask whats your definition of "positive confession"


Do they also have effect on non Christians


YES and NO


I dont know what you term as Positive confession, but to my understanding of this subject it is speaking forth Gods words, not in order for me to believe the word but an affirmation of what has been said concerning me as a child of God

hebrews13:5-6
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

so that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me




so my definition of positive confession is saying what God has said about me in his word, so based on the above verse, because he has said, i can now boldly say

how do you explain joel 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong

whoever or whatever this situation was referring to: why should the weak say they are strong?

if i was traveling across the sea(should my boat capsize) or found myself in an inferno or robbery, as a christian i begin to speak forth

Isiah 43:2
When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

2timothy1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind



what do you think will happen, will my faith be built up or will fear well up in me?


the above is the reason i said they wont work for non-Christians because these promises weren't made for them but on the other hand, there is this generic law that seems to be working in the world/universe (this has been extensively captured on page 1 or so, napoleon hill and co on the power of positive thoughts), it is this one that will work for the non-christian

Candour:

.......

still on the negative confession

I'm from benin city and there are two common prefix to names here OSA(GOD) and OBA(THE OBA) and other local deities

names like igbinedion(i take refuge in edion[a local diety])

igineogun(i take refuge in ogun[a local diety])

ogunmwentin(ogun has power)

ogunkpolor(ogun is mighty)

you also have same variant but with osa(which means God) eg igbinosa or igbiniejusu(meaning i take refuge in God or jesus

now whenever anyone who bears this name is called, by answering to the call you are affirming what the name says, when a christain who professes that Jesus is lord of his life is called because he bears such name(either because thats his surname or his name or out of ignorance) whenever he answers to that name inst that confusion?

do you think his life will be straight?
James 1:8
A double minded man will be unstable in all his ways

one minute he professes that Jesus is lord of his life and the other minute he responds to his name being called which actually means "ogun has power"?

will the effect of such confusion be seen in his life?

[size=38pt]

I love this thread [/size]

I think I'll go with McPhee's response but let me add

Number13:31-33
31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight

I believe it was called an evil report because it was contrary to what God had said?

how is it different from a Christian who speaks contrary to what God has said? Are there no consequences?

Job22:22-30
23 If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up, thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.
24 Then shalt thou lay up gold as dust, and the gold of Ophir as the stones of the brooks.
25 Yea, the Almighty shall be thy defence, and thou shalt have plenty of silver.
26 For then shalt thou have thy delight in the Almighty, and shalt lift up thy face unto God.
27 Thou shalt make thy prayer unto him, and he shall hear thee, and thou shalt pay thy vows.
28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee:and the light shall shine upon thy ways.
29 When men are cast down, then thou shalt say,There is lifting up and he shall save the humble person.
30 He shall deliver the island of the innocent: and it is delivered by the pureness of thine hands

Vs 29, when men are cast down, pls why should I say there is lifting up? Shouldn't I join them?

vs28 do u believe that can apply to a Christian?

Do u believe the Christian has power?
Do u believe the Christian words can be backed with power?

if yes, why then is it difficult to also believe that the Christian that speaks negatively will also get the results of those words

If no, I rest my case

Hebrew6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

A sword is used to cut, how do I use the word which is the sword to cut?

If I then speak contrary to the word which is the sword, are u of the opinion that there will be no consequences?

BabaGnoni and trustman, I believe the interlude is done. If there are no further input in F9, I request that we proceed to F10.

DrummaBoy: BabaGnoni and trustman, I believe the interlude is done. If there are no further input in F9, I request that we proceed to F10.

You didn't answer my non tithe question, are we fighting? Is this your request an example of name it claim it? i'm eager to know about this thing too oh, so that when it finally enters Nigeria, i will know.

therealMcCain: I think I'll go with McPhee's response but let me add

Number13:31-33
31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight

I believe it was called an evil report because it was contrary to what God had said?

how is it different from a Christian who speaks contrary to what God has said? Are there no consequences?

Job22:22-30
23 If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up, thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.
24 Then shalt thou lay up gold as dust, and the gold of Ophir as the stones of the brooks.
25 Yea, the Almighty shall be thy defence, and thou shalt have plenty of silver.
26 For then shalt thou have thy delight in the Almighty, and shalt lift up thy face unto God.
27 Thou shalt make thy prayer unto him, and he shall hear thee, and thou shalt pay thy vows.
28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee:and the light shall shine upon thy ways.
29 When men are cast down, then thou shalt say,There is lifting up and he shall save the humble person.
30 He shall deliver the island of the innocent: and it is delivered by the pureness of thine hands

Vs 29, when men are cast down, pls why should I say there is lifting up? Shouldn't I join them?

vs28 do u believe that can apply to a Christian?

Do u believe the Christian has power?
Do u believe the Christian words can be backed with power?

if yes, why then is it difficult to also believe that the Christian that speaks negatively will also get the results of those words

If no, I rest my case

Hebrew6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

A sword is used to cut, how do I use the word which is the sword to cut?

If I then speak contrary to the word which is the sword, are u of the opinion that there will be no consequences?

Thanks for your reply my bro. This would be long but bear with me. Pls see the scriptures below

1 Samuel 24:14 KJV
After whom is the king of Israel come out? after whom dost thou pursue? after a dead dog, after a flea.

1 Samuel 26:20 KJV
Now therefore, let not my blood fall to the earth before the face of the Lord : for the king of Israel is come out to seek a flea, as when one doth hunt a partridge in the mountains.

In the above scriptures, David uttered some demeaning words about himself that I won't be caught dead muttering. He referred to himself as a dead dog and a flea. Do you think those words had any effect on his life? Of course they didn't because David is still the greatest king Israel ever had and I'm sure you know about Christ being hailed as the son of David. The negative words of David would have affected him if he decided to live like a dead dog or a flea. He accessed himself against Saul and truly, he was nothing in comparison.

You referenced the evil report of the spies but do you know it wasn't the evil report that finished them? It was the fact that they allowed the report to weaken their resolve. They were right those guys were intimidating but forgetting they had a God who was mighty in battle was their undoing. God didn't get angry with them for recognising they had big battles to fight, God got angry because they decided to go back to Egypt!! Even with Moses and Aaron falling on their faces before them in obvious plea.

Numbers 14:3-5 KJV
And wherefore hath the Lord brought us unto this land, to fall by the sword, that our wives and our children should be a prey? were it not better for us to return into Egypt? [4] And they said one to another, Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt. [5] Then Moses and Aaron fell on their faces before all the assembly of the congregation of the children of Israel.

Joshua and Caleb tried reasoning with the congregation to encourage them and if they had listened, of course it would have been happy ever after but what did they get?

Numbers 14:10a KJV
But all the congregation bade stone them with stones......

It was at this point God came in.

Numbers 14:10b-11 KJV
........And the glory of the Lord appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel. [11] And the Lord said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

Even after the evil report, if only they had listened to the pleas of Moses, Aaron, Joshua and Caleb, it would have been alright but they decided to go back. They looked back like Lot's wife and that ended whatever chance they had. Also remember this was the old testament. Now we are even under better conditions than them. See what a whole Paul said of himself

Romans 7:24 KJV
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

He called himself a wretched man, do you think it had an effect on his life? See another

2 Timothy 4:20 KJV
Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

Was he confessing negatively about trophimus or he was being honest about the condition of his friend? Do you think his words would increase the sickness of his friend? See Christ too

Luke 17:10 KJV
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Was Christ encouraging negative confession by asking his disciples to refer to themselves as unprofitable servants?

I do not subscribe to negativity but it is a lazy and fearful man that blames his life's woes on some words he uttered.. What we should guard against is becoming despondent about our condition or lot in life that we refuse to take concrete steps to make a change.

Concerning Job 22:22-30 which you quoted, remember God didn't utter those words neither did Job. Eliphaz, one of Job's 3 friends, spoke there but see what God concluded about him and the other 2

Job 42:7-8 KJV
And it was so , that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath . [8] Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

They were not correct in their analysis of Job's situation and God's nature. Therefore that portion of scripture you quoted is in the bible but the speaker wasn't true in his submissions. That's what God concluded and I think we should agree with God.

In the new testament, we are enjoined to ask, not make decrees. If there's any scripture in the new testament supporting what Eliphaz said in Job 22:28, pls show me.

Cheers bro

Candour:

Thanks for your reply my bro. This would be long but bear with me. Pls see the scriptures below

1 Samuel 24:14 KJV
After whom is the king of Israel come out? after whom dost thou pursue? after a dead dog, after a flea.

1 Samuel 26:20 KJV
Now therefore, let not my blood fall to the earth before the face of the Lord : for the king of Israel is come out to seek a flea, as when one doth hunt a partridge in the mountains.

In the above scriptures, David uttered some demeaning words about himself that I won't be caught dead muttering. He referred to himself as a dead dog and a flea. Do you think those words had any effect on his life? Of course they didn't because David is still the greatest king Israel ever had and I'm sure you know about Christ being hailed as the son of David. The negative words of David would have affected him if he decided to live like a dead dog or a flea. He accessed himself against Saul and truly, he was nothing in comparison.

You referenced the evil report of the spies but do you know it wasn't the evil report that finished them? It was the fact that they allowed the report to weaken their resolve. They were right those guys were intimidating but forgetting they had a God who was mighty in battle was their undoing. God didn't get angry with them for recognising they had big battles to fight, God got angry because they decided to go back to Egypt!! Even with Moses and Aaron falling on their faces before them in obvious plea.

Numbers 14:3-5 KJV
And wherefore hath the Lord brought us unto this land, to fall by the sword, that our wives and our children should be a prey? were it not better for us to return into Egypt? [4] And they said one to another, Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt. [5] Then Moses and Aaron fell on their faces before all the assembly of the congregation of the children of Israel.

Joshua and Caleb tried reasoning with the congregation to encourage them and if they had listened, of course it would have been happy ever after but what did they get?

Numbers 14:10a KJV
But all the congregation bade stone them with stones......

It was at this point God came in.

Numbers 14:10b-11 KJV
........And the glory of the Lord appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel. [11] And the Lord said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

Even after the evil report, if only they had listened to the pleas of Moses, Aaron, Joshua and Caleb, it would have been alright but they decided to go back. They looked back like Lot's wife and that ended whatever chance they had. Also remember this was the old testament. Now we are even under better conditions than them. See what a whole Paul said of himself

Romans 7:24 KJV
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

He called himself a wretched man, do you think it had an effect on his life? See another

2 Timothy 4:20 KJV
Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

Was he confessing negatively about trophimus or he was being honest about the condition of his friend? Do you think his words would increase the sickness of his friend? See Christ too

Luke 17:10 KJV
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Was Christ encouraging negative confession by asking his disciples to refer to themselves as unprofitable servants?

I do not subscribe to negativity but it is a lazy and fearful man that blames his life's woes on some words he uttered.. What we should guard against is becoming despondent about our condition or lot in life that we refuse to take concrete steps to make a change.

Concerning Job 22:22-30 which you quoted, remember God didn't utter those words neither did Job. Eliphaz, one of Job's 3 friends, spoke there but see what God concluded about him and the other 2

Job 42:7-8 KJV
And it was so , that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath . [8] Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

They were not correct in their analysis of Job's situation and God's nature. Therefore that portion of scripture you quoted is in the bible but the speaker wasn't true in his submissions. That's what God concluded and I think we should agree with God.

In the new testament, we are enjoined to ask, not make decrees. If there's any scripture in the new testament supporting what Eliphaz said in Job 22:28, pls show me.

Cheers bro

Thank you for this beautiful work done here!

therealMcCain:

I hope this also extends to others that want to learn

pls could u explain these verses nannymcphee listed as to what they mean in life of a born again Christian

thanks

Hi my bro, before we lose track, let's recheck these scriptures you quoted earlier. One way to avoid making wrong conclusions from scripture is to look properly at the context in which words of scripture were spoken. Most of the verses you reproduced here do not mean what you thought they meant if you allow them remain in the context in which they were spoken.

proverbs 6:2
Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.

For the above scripture, you lose the context when read alone. Start from verse 1.

Proverbs 6:1-3 KJV
My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger, [2] Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth. [3] Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself, when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; go, humble thyself, and make sure thy friend.

Those 3 verses taken together make us realise its talking about standing as a guarantor or surety for someone. You snare yourself into a trap if you stand surety for somebody. The scripture you quoted has nothing to do with negative confession having a
spiritual effect on your life and destiny.

Proverbs15:4
A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit

Let's start from verse 1 again

Proverbs 15:1-4 KJV
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. [2] The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness. [3] The eyes of the Lord are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. [4] A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.

Context shows that portion of scripture is advising us to have gracious words on our lips always. Words that promote peace, wisdom, goodwill etc. Check up the dictionary meanings of the 2 bolded key words in your quoted verse and you'll agree.

Proverbs18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Let's start from 20

Proverbs 18:20-21 KJV
A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled. [21] Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

This is the one that looks a bit like its in agreement with what you said but if you put it side by side with 1Peter 3:10 and the context in which it was spoken, you'll realise its in keeping with the overall theme of proverbs which is display of wisdom in all we do for peace and tranquility to be our reality. Avoid running your mouth to stay out of trouble and have a long peaceable life.

Proverbs 18:7
A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul

Let's start from 6

Proverbs 18:6-8 KJV
A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes. [7] A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul. [8] The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

Context shows it's warning against foolish talking that lands us in trouble with seniors or those in authority. It warns against tale bearing which injure people and their feelings. A man who can't control his mouth is a fool who would sooner destroy and land himself in trouble

James3:4-5
Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

Let's start from verse 2

James 3:2 KJV
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

From the above, its clear the apostle was talking of controlling our tongue to avoid offending others and if you read it further into verse 3 which you quoted, to avoid using our tongue start issues, quarells etc that could rage like fire. The apostle is warning against the use of the tongue that leads to problems, infractions etc for example backbiting and tale bearing. The summary is not to offend people, curse people or start a matter that can rage like a fire.

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

The above is very self explanatory and I believe it led to the statements in chapter 3. If you can't control your tongue from letting dirty words out, how do you show you're saved? It's another encouragement to sanctified talking.

1peter3:10
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

The keyword there is guile. See how the dictionary defines guile

: the use of clever and usually dishonest methods to achieve something

The advice there is that if you want to live long, avoid deceitful and cunning words coming out of your lips. Refrain your tongue from this evil. It has nothing to do with negative words having spiritual power over your life or destiny.

Negative speaking or confession isn't edifying to a christian but elevating it to having powers that it doesn't have belongs in the realm of the metaphysical. It isn't Christian. The counsel of God is independent of our thoughts. God isn't limited by our words.

nannymcphee:

still on the negative confession

I'm from benin city and there are two common prefix to names here OSA(GOD) and OBA(THE OBA) and other local deities

names like igbinedion(i take refuge in edion[a local diety])

igineogun(i take refuge in ogun[a local diety])

ogunmwentin(ogun has power)

ogunkpolor(ogun is mighty)

you also have same variant but with osa(which means God) eg igbinosa or igbiniejusu(meaning i take refuge in God or jesus

now whenever anyone who bears this name is called, by answering to the call you are affirming what the name says, when a christain who professes that Jesus is lord of his life is called because he bears such name(either because thats his surname or his name or out of ignorance) whenever he answers to that name inst that confusion?

do you think his life will be straight?
James 1:8
A double minded man will be unstable in all his ways

one minute he professes that Jesus is lord of his life and the other minute he responds to his name being called which actually means "ogun has power"?

will the effect of such confusion be seen in his life?

Dear sister, for starters, that scripture you quoted has nothing to do with the issue at hand. A double minded man is a man incapable if making a firm decision because he's always caught in 2 or more alternatives. Such a person will experience instability in life. Its a moral lesson that holds true for all humans irrespective of their religious persuasion.

Coming to the matter at hand, I believe you've heard of pastor Kumuyi? He's one of the greatest pastors Nigeria has ever known and personally, I consider him the most respected. Do you know the meaning of his name?

Kumuyi in full is iku mu iyi meaning death has taken this. Do you think it has any effect on his life?

What about our Coza pastor? Biodun Fatoyinbo?

Fatoyinbo fully is ifa to oyinbo meaning the oracle of divination is equal to the white man. Do you think its the name that pushed him to try another level of grace with Ese Walters? Will the name eventually lead him to failure in life because as far as evidence of physical success go, he's a poster boy for it?

My sister, I've seen igbinosas that turned armed robbers and failures while I've seen successful igbinedions. I don't wish to offend your sensibilities or that of others but we Africans carried our fetish past and mixed it with Christianity. I have an idea of what you're talking about having spent 11 years in MFM myself. Pls let's stop gloryfying the devil. No matter how success driven your name sounds, if you refuse to work hard and smart, you'll fail in life. No amount of prayers or church going will help.

I'm surnamed after a big oracle where I come from and I grew up hearing how the name would limit me. After countless deliverances and prayers, I was advised to change the name. I was in the process when I got to studying my bible and reasoning with my brain. My younger brother of course has the same surname and if not that we look very alike, I was tempted to think he didn't share the same ancestors with me because he always succeeded in everything he did while I seemed to struggled. The difference was that he refused to allow the story behind our surname limit him while I sat in thought everyday explaining to myself why I'll always fall short because of my surname. My situation changed when I decided to change. There wasn't anything spiritual about it. It was purely psychological. I had allowed fear to cow my thought processes.

I'm Yoruba and I've seen and know plenty ogun-somethings that are very successful and live beautiful christian lives.

Pls forget the devil if you're a child of God, he doesn't count in the scheme of things.