DrummaBoy:

In the thread by Tgirl4real on God speaking to people I answered two questions you directed at me. You have not indicated whether you understood those answers, if your question were answered at all or to even recognize the fact that I took some effort to answer those questions.

Until I see you do this I would assume that the questions you ask are not meant to find light for your understanding but to cast a stumbling block on the discussion. Thus, like with Image123, I do not have the time for individual like that. Scripture records Pharisees and Sadducees asking Jesus questions to "catch him in his words". You will need to prove to me you have purer motives.

You should be able to take questions and criticism na. Well, i said it already. You guys don't want anyone to come spoil the thread party or present one dissenting view. Your words are law, aren't they?

Image123:

You should be able to take questions and criticism na. Well, i said it already. You guys don't want anyone to come spoil the thread party or present one dissenting view. Your words are law, aren't they?

Questions, I am ready to take and I did explain in the post you quoted I have answered two already.

Criticisms I am ready to endure.

What I cannot take are criticism disguised as questions. Its dishonest and unchristlike. Its the nature of a serpent that moves around unsuspectingly until it strikes you dead.

Christian are not to be dishonest people. Christians should not be snakes. Yes, they should be as wise as serpents but they shouldn't be serpents. If you have a question, state it and also make your intention known.

Those are some free tutorials on Christian character that you too could learn from.

DrummaBoy:

[size=15pt]What I cannot take are criticism disguised as questions. Its dishonest and unchristlike. Its the nature of a serpent that moves around unsuspectingly until it strikes you dead.[/size]

Image123:

Are you saying she/he is not a christian? Because she/he is not all glory alleluia about your thread?

DrummaBoy:

In the thread by Tgirl4real on God speaking to people I answered two questions you directed at me. You have not indicated whether you understood those answers, if your question were answered at all or to even recognize the fact that I took some effort to answer those questions.

Until I see you do this I would assume that the questions you ask are not meant to find light for your understanding but to cast a stumbling block on the discussion. Thus, like with Image123, I do not have the time for individual like that. Scripture records Pharisees and Sadducees asking Jesus questions to "catch him in his words". You will need to prove to me you have purer motives.

I'm sure somewhere in that thread u made reference to i said "wow, it's insightful" either way my intention is not to prove u wrong or right!! I want to know more

My tone & choice of words will prove the above, I'm still on page 4, the issues I have raised here are the ones that I find a scripture that seems not to support the post I quoted, hence my questions

While reading thru this thread, I prayed a prayer that God should help me unlearn the wrong things I have learnt

So drummaboy, thank you for taking out time to answer my questions.

BabaGnoni:
^^^

SMH.
Almost thou persuadest me you were a "Christian"

BabaGnoni:
^^^
SMH.
Almost thou persuadest me you were a "Christian"

Firstly I'm a Christian !!!!

Secondly, u're a proponent of the saying "be like the bereans" I have gone thru your thread & found certain things that seems to be against the scriptures I quoted, hence my seeking clarification

can u notice any sarcasm in my posts or any impolite word or insult?

I didnt read the link u provided cos its no news to me, I'm aware of such break through, what seems to confuse me was the fact that u didn't say anything about the scriptures I quoted

Firstly, when Jesus made that statement, he wasn't referring to medicine or science but to
Believers who will do greater works than he did

But u sir, said that no believer can grow limb or do other creative miracles excerpt thru science/medecine

are u saying I'm wrong to have asked what Jesus meant by that verse?

I also asked if the gift of miracle, faith & healing can't produce such creative miracle, u didn't answer this also

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F9: Name it.. Claim it... doctrine[/size]

I have a short statement to make on this "name it and claim it" practice and I will just give them in bullet points; a sort of summary of what has already been very well presented by trustman and BabaGnoni.

* The "name it and claim" is an unbiblical doctrine and practice as neither Christ nor his apostles were ever seen engaging in it.

* The doctrine is basically an extension of the "formular" kind of Christianity that pervade much of what many tout as Christian living today. It betrays basic and orthodox Christian beliefs about Gods sovereignty and enthrones man as god.

* Its a doctrine that justifies lust and covetousness in Christianity. While orthodox Christianity encourages a despising of the lust of the flesh and eyes, and pride of life; this WOF doctrines justifies them, and encapsulates them in Christian language, making believers unsuspecting of being sold to the world.

* Its the chief doctrine and practice of WOF. It summarizes the prosperity gospel like no other.

* Its a doctrine of demons, like most WOF doctrine as it despises implicit trust in God, the corner stone of the Christian faith: The Just Shall Live by Faith.

* Like other practices of WOF it turns God to our errand boy. It inculcates occultic practices, couching them in Christian terminologies.

* It discourages hard work and despises a sense of responsibility. If I can sit back and claim something, why work? It is such a generation of Christians that should be reminded "if you do not work, you should not eat".

* It bellies sound biblical doctrines like Justification by faith, election, predestination, God's Sovereignty, Grace, etc. Doctrines that hinge exclusively on God alone. When you teach name and claim it; other biblical doctrines like those aforementioned no longer fit into your theology. So that at the end you begin to teach another gospel.

* Finally, name it and claim it, like WOF itself, is another gospel, propagated by another spirit and thus preaching another Jesus.


[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F9: Name it.. Claim it... doctrine[/size]
I REST MY CASE ON F9.

trustman:

I don't want to believe that this thread is one sided!! I asked u some questions based on ur post & there is no answer from u instead you're opening ur teeth

you don't expect everybody to take what u say hook line & sinker?

I asked my questions back with scripture, if u won't answer me, kindly state it

nannymcphee:

I'm sure somewhere in that thread u made reference to i said "wow, it's insightful" either way my intention is not to prove u wrong or right!! I want to know more

My tone & choice of words will prove the above, I'm still on page 4, the issues I have raised here are the ones that I find a scripture that seems not to support the post I quoted, hence my questions

While reading thru this thread, I prayed a prayer that God should help me unlearn the wrong things I have learnt

So drummaboy, thank you for taking out time to answer my questions.

I believe you and I apologize for my language.

We have been on this project for a while now and have had to endure a lot of false brethren. I wanted to be sure you were not one of them.

I will work on your questions and get back to you here.

Two things:

1. I will never Argue on Tithes with Image123. The type of Wounjury BabaGnoni received, I doubt I would have recovered from it. All things are POSSIBLE sha.

2. Nannymcphee, your questions are valid and reek of no elements of sarcasm or ill will but these fellows will not provide answers for them because

- It destroys their theology and turns it on its head.
- it exposes this thread for what it really is- a sham.
- dissenting views are not entertained.

How people can come together to spiritualize their unbelief only God knows. Truly a blind man cannot lead other blind men.

mbaemeka: Two things:

1. I will never Argue on Tithes with Image123.
The type of Wounjury BabaGnoni received,
I doubt I would have recovered from it. All things are POSSIBLE sha.

2. Nannymcphee, your questions are valid and reek of no elements of sarcasm or ill will
but these fellows will not provide answers for them because

- It destroys their theology and turns it on its head.
- it exposes this thread for what it really is- a sham.
- dissenting views are not entertained.

How people can come together to spiritualize their unbelief only God knows.
Truly a blind man cannot lead other blind men.

^^^

SMH. Wounjury LOL

@nannymcphee

I have just gone over your first question and noticed that BabaGnoni has supplied an answer. I endorse that answer.

The quote was actually not mine but a snippet from something I posted. Nonetheless, go through BabaGnoni answer and let me know if you have further questions.

I will work on the second question and post ASAP.

mbaemeka: Two things:

1. I will never Argue on Tithes with Image123. The type of Wounjury BabaGnoni received, I doubt I would have recovered from it. All things are POSSIBLE sha.

2. Nannymcphee, your questions are valid and reek of no elements of sarcasm or ill will but these fellows will not provide answers for them because

- It destroys their theology and turns it on its head.
- it exposes this thread for what it really is- a sham.
- dissenting views are not entertained.

How people can come together to spiritualize their unbelief only God knows. Truly a blind man cannot lead other blind men.

DrummaBoy:

I believe you and I apologize for my language.

We have been on this project for a while now and have had to endure a lot of false brethren. I wanted to be sure you were not one of them.

I will work on your questions and get back to you here.

Sheep alert, sheep alert. Wolves set to devour. I pray this sheep is kept by God Himself.

DrummaBoy: @nannymcphee

I have just gone over your first question and noticed that BabaGnoni has supplied an answer. I endorse that answer.

The quote was actually not mine but a snippet from something I posted. Nonetheless, go through BabaGnoni answer and let me know if you have further questions.

I will work on the second question and post ASAP.

Thanks, I'll like ur input in all the questions I asked regardless of whether I quoted u or not

1. The first being on the issue of negative confession, I cited some quotes
2. The issue of no creative miracle being possible today excerpt thru science, I also cited scriptures
3. The issue of the cross

As for the Tower of Babel, I never knew it was not an actual event but a symbolic one, I took it literally so I'll study more & get back to u on that but I cited another scripture in proverbs that talks about " as a man thinkers so he is"

just try to read thru the post where I asked these questions

Thanks

nannymcphee:

Firstly I'm a Christian !!!!

Secondly, u're a proponent of the saying "be like the bereans" I have gone thru your thread
& found certain things that seems to be against the scriptures I quoted, hence my seeking clarification

can u notice any sarcasm in my posts or any impolite word or insult?

I didn't read the link u provided cos its no news to me,
I'm aware of such break through, what seems to confuse me was the fact that u didn't say anything about the scriptures I quoted

Firstly, when Jesus made that statement, he wasn't referring to medicine or science but to
Believers who will do greater works than he did

But u sir, said that no believer can grow limb or do other creative miracles excerpt thru science/medecine

are u saying I'm wrong to have asked what Jesus meant by that verse?

I also asked if the gift of miracle, faith & healing can't produce such creative miracle, u didn't answer this also

Believe you me, I know you are Christian nannymcphee
I know you became one in 2003
Notice the quotes and italic when I said: Almost thou persuadest me you were a "Christian"

I didn't want to take you down a path you aren't ready or willing to go hence the Agrippa Macbeth english/pantomime remark

As for "can u notice any sarcasm in my posts or any impolite word or insult?"
Ah also those triple exclamations marks too, didn't help the matter much or at all
- It's difficult to know who is genuine and sincere when their sentences end with triple exclamations marks

As regards your:
I didn't read the link u provided cos its no news to me,
I'm aware of such break through,
what seems to confuse me was the fact that u didn't say anything about the scriptures I quoted

Firstly, when Jesus made that statement, he wasn't referring to medicine or science
but to Believers who will do greater works than he did

are u saying I'm wrong to have asked what Jesus meant by that verse?

I also asked if the gift of miracle, faith & healing can't produce such creative miracle, u didn't answer this also - nannymcphee

You didn't bother to open the link. Fine that's OK...
I am glad you "aware of such break through" shows that the prayers of the saints are being answered for these miracles to become the norm

There wasn't anything more to say or add to your scripture (i.e. John 14:12)
The bible like as with the "Tower of Babel" euphemism etc is littered with hyperbole, metaphors etc etc

Firstly, when Jesus made that statement, he wasn't referring to medicine or science, He was talking in general
and every thing is bound by rules with regulations or principles behind them
Limbs, reattaching limbs, growing limbs are no exception

Also your "believers who will do greater works than He did" pertains to works of the Spirit.

2000 years ago, that verse and Mark 21:22 were made, and limbs (e.g. ears and noses) have only been grown recently

You wouldn't find me saying you were "wrong to have asked what Jesus meant by that verse"
but there wasn't anything more to say or add to your scripture (i.e. John 14:12)
besides the fact, I already offered an explanation which you trampled upon or dismissed

If by asking "if the gift of miracle, faith & healing can't produce such creative miracle"
and if "creative miracle" to you means reattaching severed limbs, growing back limbs
well as previously mentioned:
It will come not from playing Jesus (i.e. not from claiming that, we are little gods, god class with a little ''g'' etc)
not from the pulpit, pastors or prophets nannymcphee
If one wants to see a sliced off ear or cut off leg put back on
then putting them and limbs back, recreating limbs etc will happen as miracles in the medical arenas
And it is already happening in the medical arenas but not yet in the pulpit

I sure and sincerely hope you aren't taking heed of mbaemeka or paying any attention to Image123
They will give you a false sense of security and make you feel everything is fine,
but it really isn't, there's a danger in the WoF teachings they have been indoctrinated with

Guard your purse and your heart
Your money is precious to you and more importantly your soul is precious to Abba Father.

nannymcphee:
John 14:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised

pls can u explain ur quote in the light of the above scripture?

If thru sin death & all other evil entered into the world & u say sin has been taken care of, don't u think the effects & results of sin will also be taken care of in the life of those that has embraced the cross or the sacrifice?

The quote you provided on me actually referred to a number of texts. Pls can you find those texts and possibly reproduce them here? It will help the discuss. We have discussed a great deal in this thread, I cannot immediately find where I made that statement though I stand by it and do not deny them.

When you have seen those texts, you should come to one conclusion alone and that is that Jesus died for men's sins alone - Matthew 1:21.

A thorough reading of the gospels and especially the epistles reveals this. Let me shed some light on the latter statement. The epistles are termed by theologians as church age doctrines. What this means is that prior to Jesus death and resurrection, there was no church. It was when he rose the church was formed. Our Lord did not stay behind to teach the church how to function; rather he sent the Holy Spirit. The epistles are Spirit inspired messages to the church. And nowhere in the epistle will you find a doctrine of Jesus death other than his dying being solution to sin, alone.

The gospel that recorded Jesus ministry on the other hand were peculiar in the sense that Jesus time on earth was a merger of grace and law. This was necessary for him to fulfill the law in one hand and to bring us to grace in another hand, John 1:17.

Another peculiar thing about Jesus was his being anointed without measure to confirm the ministry God had sent him to do. This is what Christ means: the anointed one. This is what was recorded of the messiah in Isaiah which Luke 4, the scripture you quoted, was reiterating. Jesus was sent to deliver men, heal them, etc. However, his death on the cross solved menu's problem with sin alone: via our right standing with God and grace for holy living.

Now Luke 4 also points us to something the Messiah does in the individual life. When sin is solved, the natural outworking effects might lead to health and wealth; however there is no where these are GUARANTEED. What is GUARANTEED is righteousness and holiness. The rest are what God adds by grace and mercy alone.

When we go to God to solve our problems, we turn him to an idol. When we submit to God to solve what he defines as man's problem,which is sin, we find a Saviour. God has never had problem with man riches, or man being healthy; Gods problem with all men, rich or poor, healthy or sick, is sin.

And it is this problem Jesus came to solve.

Hallelujah!!!

WOF teaches a false gospel when she says God has sent Jesus to solve other problems other than sin. This, my sister, is a lie.

BabaGnoni:

Believe you me, I know you are Christian nannymcphee
I know you became one in 2003
Notice the quotes and italic when I said: Almost thou persuadest me you were a "Christian"

I didn't want to take you down a path you aren't ready or willing to go hence the Agrippa Macbeth english/pantomime remark

As for "can u notice any sarcasm in my posts or any impolite word or insult?"
Ah also those triple exclamations marks too, didn't help the matter much or at all
- It's difficult to know who is genuine and sincere when their sentences end with triple exclamations marks

As regards your:
I didn't read the link u provided cos its no news to me,
I'm aware of such break through,
what seems to confuse me was the fact that u didn't say anything about the scriptures I quoted

Firstly, when Jesus made that statement, he wasn't referring to medicine or science
but to Believers who will do greater works than he did

are u saying I'm wrong to have asked what Jesus meant by that verse?

I also asked if the gift of miracle, faith & healing can't produce such creative miracle, u didn't answer this also - nannymcphee

You didn't bother to open the link. Fine that's OK...
I am glad you "aware of such break through" shows that the prayers of the saints are being answered for these miracles to become the norm

There wasn't anything more to say or add to your scripture (i.e. John 14:12)
The bible like as with the "Tower of Babel" euphemism etc is littered with hyperbole, metaphors etc etc

Firstly, when Jesus made that statement, he wasn't referring to medicine or science, He was talking in general
and every thing is bound by rules with regulations or principles behind them
Limbs, reattaching limbs, growing limbs are no exception

Also your "believers who will do greater works than He did" pertains to works of the Spirit.

2000 years ago, that verse and Mark 21:22 were made, and limbs (e.g. ears and noses) have only been grown recently

You wouldn't find me saying you were "wrong to have asked what Jesus meant by that verse"
but there wasn't anything more to say or add to your scripture (i.e. John 14:12)
besides the fact, I already offered an explanation which you trampled upon or dismissed

If by asking "if the gift of miracle, faith & healing can't produce such creative miracle"
and if "creative miracle" to you means reattaching severed limbs, growing back limbs
well as previously mentioned:
It will come not from playing Jesus (i.e. not from claiming that, we are little gods, god class with a little ''g'' etc)
not from the pulpit, pastors or prophets nannymcphee
If one wants to see a sliced off ear or cut off leg put back on
then putting them and limbs back, recreating limbs etc will happen as miracles in the medical arenas
And it is already happening in the medical arenas but not yet in the pulpit

I sure and sincerely hope you aren't taking heed of mbaemeka or paying any attention to Image123
They will give you a false sense of security and make you feel everything is fine,
but it really isn't, there's a danger in the WoF teachings they have been indoctrinated with

Guard your purse and your heart
Your money is precious to you and more importantly your soul is precious to Abba Father.

Thanks for ur response, I have always thought that Jesus meant that the works of miracles, teachings etc he did, that believers will do even much more

I'll do a further study on this, I'm aware that God gives scientific breakthrough but that can be thru anybody believer or not, I thought that believers could replicate the miracles Jesus did coupled with the gifts of the Holy Spirit that I earlier mentioned. Do the thought that belivers cant is new to me. Well thanks, I study more

But could u pls explain those gifts & it's limitation & boundaries in terms of its actual meaning & application

nannymcphee:

Thanks, I'll like ur input in all the questions I asked regardless of whether I quoted u or not

1. The first being on the issue of negative confession, I cited some quotes
2. The issue of no creative miracle being possible today excerpt thru science, I also cited scriptures
3. The issue of the cross

As for the Tower of Babel, I never knew it was not an actual event but a symbolic one, I took it literally so I'll study more & get back to u on that but I cited another scripture in proverbs that talks about " as a man thinkers so he is"

just try to read thru the post where I asked these questions

Thanks

Permit me to answer only number 1. Number 3 has been touched on in my last post. I do not have the luxury of time to reach number 2 and I think some of my friends have either worked on that or will do it in latter posts.

Concerning Negative Confession.

Again I don't have a bible software again on this phone (in fact anyone with a workable software on scripture for android phones should help a brother out with s link. ejo!) so I cannot post scriptures but I will paraphrase or refer you to chapters.

The born again Christian is a new creature. One of the first miracle of a saved man is a sanctified tongue. I know this bc it happened to me. Before I became a Christian I was a gangster rapper. I knew every word of Snoop's "Doggy Style" album verbatim. The result was that I could paint a room blue with expletives. When Jesus came he removed all the f and b and m words. It surprises me till date. I consider it a miracle and a blessing.

The sanctified tongue is the character and duty of the Christian. So Paul says let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth. Etc.

The next blessing that comes with being born again is a sanctified mindset. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speak. The work of the Spirit in us produces faith, trust, rest, hope, love, optimism, truth, etc. These things appear in our words. So when you see the Proverbs says the power of life and death lies in the tongue, those scriptures are not giving us formulas. They are telling us the outcome of the sanctified life and the depraved one. The scriptures are not saying talk like this so you may have these results; they are saying the results you see have a root course.

Those scriptures also further enjoins the Christian on what sanctified speaking should entail. So rather than deploying them as a means to an end, we use them as yardstick towards greater sanctification.

The trouble with WOF is their turning God and his word to a genie. Say the right words; do the right things; and you will get results. Scripture does not teach this.

Some of the greatest men of faith said the most "unfaith" words in scripture.

The three Hebrew children said even if God did not save them they would not bow.

Jesus called a king a fox. He used the word WOE often. He spoke of his crucifixion - a very negative thing.

Paul called a pastor white washed sepulcher. He spoke of false prophets and used the most derogatory terms, like dogs, to describe them. He spoke often of sick companions.

Peter and Paul prophesied their deaths; and so on.

So all these "you must speak like this to get this result" is not the gospel. If however we are told that sanctification should produce right speaking, then we are saying a different thing. The first case seeks an end for self - idolatary; the second case seeks God's glory.

DrummaBoy:
.

Thanks you have answered my question, thanks, as I earlier stated, I'm on page 4 so as I find things I don't understand, I'll seek clarification

nannymcphee:

Thanks you have answered my question, thanks, as I earlier stated, I'm on page 4 so as I find things I don't understand, I'll seek clarification

Your questions are welcome.

nannymcphee:

Thanks for ur response,

I have always thought that Jesus meant that the works of miracles, teachings etc he did, that believers will do even much more

I'll do a further study on this, I'm aware that God gives scientific breakthrough but that can be thru anybody believer or not,
I thought that believers could replicate the miracles Jesus did coupled with the gifts of the Holy Spirit that I earlier mentioned.
So the thought that belivers cant is new to me.

Well thanks, I study more

But could u pls explain those gifts & it's limitation & boundaries in terms of its actual meaning & application

You're welcome nannymcphee

When it comes to but "Jesus meant that the works of miracles, teachings etc He did, that believers will do even much more "
there are no clear rules to obey for this to happen

We need to recognise the fact, that verse (i.e. John 14:12) was made when Jesus was about ascending to Heaven
and notice that the Holy Spirit was promised few verses further up, to replace Jesus when He vacates earth for Heaven
So that essentially is what John 14:12 and the rest of the passage is about (i.e. the Holy Spirit and the promise of equipping)

Now, the manifestation of the Spirit is as itemised in 1 Corinthians 12:8-11 (i.e. just as you earlier rightly quoted)

In regards to "limitation & boundaries" from your "But could u pls explain those gifts & it's limitation & boundaries in terms of its actual meaning & application" quote
though I did say "no clear rules which you must obey when it comes to works of miracles",
I will intimate you with a God quote (i.e. the below snippet from Joan of Arcadia) which helped me get a better understanding of miracles
This among other things, experiences etc gave me an insight, to some extent how miracles works

Joan: Make Kevin walk, please?
I just ask this one favor and then I'll never ask for one again. It's so easy for you.
All you have to do is snap your fingers or blink your eyes. Just let Kevin stand up.
God: People ask me to do things - big things, little things - billions of times, every day.
Joan: What do you expect? You're God!
God: I put a lot of thought into the Universe; came up with the rules.
It sets a bad example if I break them - not to mention, shows favoritism.
Why should one person get a miracle, and not everybody else?
Can you imagine the confusion? It's better when we all abide by the rules .
Joan: No miracles?
God: Miracles happen within the rules.

Some miracles happen on the pulpit within the pulpit's rules, limitation & boundaries (i.e. we know God still heals or cures)
whilst others (e.g. re-growing ears noses, limbs etc) will have to happen within the medical field's rules, limitation & boundaries
As for the latter, God is waiting on us for birth this out and make it happen
- He has already blessed us with and deposited all the know-how in us to wrought out these miracles

You're clinging too tightly on "believers" in your "So the thought that belivers cant is new to me" statement
Believers and non-believers are not restricted from wroughting miracles
There is/was a time and place for the special miracles as the likes in Acts 5:12, Acts 19:11 etc etc which you are referring to.

PS: Some few tips, as regarding studying more:
- Pray that God equip you to get more understanding and bless you as per Proverbs 4:7, Proverbs 16:16 and crowning it with Psalm 119:104
- Keep in mind that Jesus was a Jew, taught in Jewish, told parables in a Jewish culture or context, spoke with Jewish idioms etc
- The bible is full of metaphors, hyperbole, symbolism, figure of speech, allegories, parallels, types, similes, paradoxes
- Study the origin of word(s) and the way in which the meaning(s) stands out or play out in the bible

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit,
whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things
and remind you of everything that I have told you.
- John 14:26 ISV

DrummaBoy:

Permit me to answer only number 1. Number 3 has been touched on in my last post. I do not have the luxury of time to reach number 2 and I think some of my friends have either worked on that or will do it in latter posts.

Concerning Negative Confession.

Again I don't have a bible software again on this phone (in fact anyone with a workable software on scripture for android phones should help a brother out with s link. ejo!) so I cannot post scriptures but I will paraphrase or refer you to chapters.

The born again Christian is a new creature. One of the first miracle of a saved man is a sanctified tongue. I know this bc it happened to me. Before I became a Christian I was a gangster rapper. I knew every word of Snoop's "Doggy Style" album verbatim. The result was that I could paint a room blue with expletives. When Jesus came he removed all the f and b and m words. It surprises me till date. I consider it a miracle and a blessing.

The sanctified tongue is the character and duty of the Christian. So Paul says let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth. Etc.

The next blessing that comes with being born again is a sanctified mindset. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speak. The work of the Spirit in us produces faith, trust, rest, hope, love, optimism, truth, etc. These things appear in our words. So when you see the Proverbs says the power of life and death lies in the tongue, those scriptures are not giving us formulas. They are telling us the outcome of the sanctified life and the depraved one. The scriptures are not saying talk like this so you may have these results; they are saying the results you see have a root course.

Those scriptures also further enjoins the Christian on what sanctified speaking should entail. So rather than deploying them as a means to an end, we use them as yardstick towards greater sanctification.

The trouble with WOF is their turning God and his word to a genie. Say the right words; do the right things; and you will get results. Scripture does not teach this.

Some of the greatest men of faith said the most "unfaith" words in scripture.

The three Hebrew children said even if God did not save them they would not bow.

Jesus called a king a fox. He used the word WOE often. He spoke of his crucifixion - a very negative thing.

Paul called a pastor white washed sepulcher. He spoke of false prophets and used the most derogatory terms, like dogs, to describe them. He spoke often of sick companions.

Peter and Paul prophesied their deaths; and so on.

So all these "you must speak like this to get this result" is not the gospel. If however we are told that sanctification should produce right speaking, then we are saying a different thing. The first case seeks an end for self - idolatary; the second case seeks God's glory.

Nice write up here, but u seem to be talking about the transformation that takes place after conversion

James likened the tongue to the rudder of a ship & further states that the rudder controls the ship, does that not mean that the tongue can also determine the course of one's life

What happens to the Christian who constantly speak fear & death, are u saying there are no consequences

Romans 10:9-10
For with the heart man believes unto righteousness & with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

if salvations start with believing in ones heart
About Jesus & speaking it forth, what then of a man who speak negative words(I'm not talking of swear words)

I am of the opinion that a Christian who makes negative confessions will reap its fruits

Imagine someone who always says the following

1. I'm no good
2. I'll never amount to anything
3. I'm barren
4. I'll never succeed in this business

Will this person be productive?

DrummaBoy:

Your questions are welcome.

I hope this also extends to others that want to learn

pls could u explain these verses nannymcphee listed as to what they mean in life of a born again Christian

thanks

proverbs 6:2
Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.

Proverbs15:4
A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit

Proverbs18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Proverbs 18:7
A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul

James3:4-5
Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

1peter3:10
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

therealMcCain:
Imagine someone who always says the following
1. I'm no good
2. I'll never amount to anything
3. I'm barren
4. I'll never succeed in this business
Will this person be productive?

I wonder, what kind of Christian that would be. Such misguided comments could be excused on the grounds of such and one's ignorance of Scripture that reveals what God's will is for the believer because such utterances have no biblical support. If God's opinion of the believer as revealed in His word, is the standard for such a person's life, he/she will not find a basis to think otherwise.
If indeed such a person has been truly spending time in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, such an attitude cannot continue for long because his/her entire perspective of life - conversation and all, will be progressively transformed by the renewing of their minds, to prove (discover, understand and experience) what God's good, perfect and acceptable will, is for them. The image of Christ to which God is conforming us does not tolerate or contain such an outlook.

nuwell:

I wonder, what kind of Christian that would be. Such misguided comments could be excused on the grounds of such and one's ignorance of Scripture that reveals what God's will is for the believer because such utterances have no biblical support. If God's opinion of the believer as revealed in His word, is the standard for such a person's life, he/she will not find a basis to think otherwise.
If indeed such a person has been truly spending time in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, such an attitude cannot continue for long because his/her entire perspective of life - conversation and all, will be progressively transformed by the renewing of their minds, to prove (discover, understand and experience) what God's good, perfect and acceptable will, is for them. The image of Christ to which God is conforming us does not tolerate or contain such an outlook.

Quite right.

therealMcCain:

Nice write up here, but u seem to be talking about the transformation that takes place after conversion

James likened the tongue to the rudder of a ship & further states that the rudder controls the ship, does that not mean that the tongue can also determine the course of one's life

What happens to the Christian who constantly speak fear & death, are u saying there are no consequences

Romans 10:9-10
For with the heart man believes unto righteousness & with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

if salvations start with believing in ones heart
About Jesus & speaking it forth, what then of a man who speak negative words(I'm not talking of swear words)

I am of the opinion that a Christian who makes negative confessions will reap its fruits

Imagine someone who always says the following

1. I'm no good
2. I'll never amount to anything
3. I'm barren
4. I'll never succeed in this business

Will this person be productive?

Sorry to say, you are still in the name it, claim it mindset that sure takes time to be ridded of.

I mentioned in the quote above that the Spirit in the believer manifest hope, love, optimism, etc. A true Christian will show these things.

If however a Christian has a reason to fear, he should fear and not use faith words to cover it. Nevertheless this should not stop him from casting his care on Jesus.

The James scripture butreses my position on sanctified mindset and thinking; it encourages us to speak well and not neccasarily to speak to get.

therealMcCain:

I hope this also extends to others that want to learn

pls could u explain these verses nannymcphee listed as to what they mean in life of a born again Christian

thanks

proverbs 6:2
Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.

Proverbs15:4
A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit

Proverbs18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Proverbs 18:7
A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul

James3:4-5
Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

1peter3:10
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

I have and I believe she understood the answer. I should ask you to tell me what you do not understand about the answers provided.

nuwell:

I wonder, what kind of Christian that would be. Such misguided comments could be excused on the grounds of such and one's ignorance of Scripture that reveals what God's will is for the believer because such utterances have no biblical support. If God's opinion of the believer as revealed in His word, is the standard for such a person's life, he/she will not find a basis to think otherwise.
If indeed such a person has been truly spending time in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, such an attitude cannot continue for long because his/her entire perspective of life - conversation and all, will be progressively transformed by the renewing of their minds, to prove (discover, understand and experience) what God's good, perfect and acceptable will, is for them. The image of Christ to which God is conforming us does not tolerate or contain such an outlook.

Nuwell!! Where have you been?! You are hardly ever on NL anymore.

Nice insight btw.

nuwell:

I wonder, what kind of Christian that would be. Such misguided comments could be excused on the grounds of such and one's ignorance of Scripture that reveals what God's will is for the believer because such utterances have no biblical support. If God's opinion of the believer as revealed in His word, is the standard for such a person's life, he/she will not find a basis to think otherwise.
If indeed such a person has been truly spending time in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, such an attitude cannot continue for long because his/her entire perspective of life - conversation and all, will be progressively transformed by the renewing of their minds, to prove (discover, understand and experience) what God's good, perfect and acceptable will, is for them. The image of Christ to which God is conforming us does not tolerate or contain such an outlook.

ur epistle above addresses an ideal situation but in reality its isnt really so or at least most Christians hasnt gotten to this level
the christian who spends time in fellowship with the holy spirit as you have rightly pointed will not do a lot of things but is that whats obtainable today?

there christian that are negatively programmed they never see the good in anything maybe cos of their upbringing or experiences, as such their words are always wrong(i'm not talking about swear words)

PLEASE NOTE: my question IS NOT asking whether a christian can say such words or whether its possible for the bornagain christian to use such words or whether its a christain nature to use such words(because your epistle and drummaboy's answer seems to point to this)


my question is the christian who constantly uses such words(there are lots of other variants) what will be the consequences/effects of such words in his/her life?


just to buttress my point we all know the christian is not supposed to commit adultery, so if asked what will happen if a married christian impregnates another lady? you dont answer by saying "that man is not a christian or a christian cant do such etc" you go ahead to state what will happen or how the church will handle such case

DrummaBoy:

I have and I believe she understood the answer. I should ask you to tell me what you do not understand about the answers provided.

pls i have stated it that my intention is to learn, so pls address my question from the angle of a christian wanting to know the meaning/application of those verses in his or her life. disregard the wof stand or any other impression you have of me

this is me asking you brother drummaboy, please what do these verses mean?

thanks

BabaGnoni:



but if you're referring to taking authority, stepping or trampling on snakes and scorpions etc (i.e. Luke 10:19 or Mark 16:18),
well, then you're in for a shocker because those verses are not meant for or addressed to 21st Christians
shdemidemi this meat is too tough for some to chew, your comments on this is needed desperately here please

DrummaBoy:

.......

pls i need clarification here, who was jesus referring to?