Lobeez:


@Gombs, you have a point, but what you must understand is there is a difference between someone ignorantly walking in error and someone who deliberately arranges schemes to fleece Gods children. Some of these men know the consequences of some of their actions on the people they pull it off on but will turn a blind eye because of the wickedness of greed that has taken over them.

Oh boy, the youtube videos, web links, blogs etc is really doing a lot, but you can't see it because you are on the other side of the divide. I've met dozens of people who turned their backs on WOF after seeing some of these videos. Let me give my own story: I started reading Hagins books as far back as 1989, by the time I became a teenager, I had read up to a dozen of his books. (My Mum, a Deeper Life leader had a large collection of Hagins books). I was truly inspired by his message and great testimonies of Gods power. I became fully immersed in WOF from 1993 to 2007. I was part of the emerging 'pentecostal' era of those times
However after I began my gradual withdrawal from the WOF, had the opportunity for the first time to see videos of some of the people I had only read in books, some of these videos shocked me. My curiosity was ignited and I wanted to know more, sadly more led to more and more and more till I could not take it any longer.
Today, I see through most of them and what saddens me is the fact that a lot of them know exactly what they are doing. Most of my friends that started the journey with me joined this bandwagon, they are international ministers today and professional snake oil salesmen.

I will only pray for the few who are just ignorantly misled, but for those who are deliberately wicked, I will expose them at any given time. I do not see them as men of God so do not have have an iota of respect for them

Thanks

Alright bro!

vooks:
You should speak against it as well. Save your fellow brethren from pious fraud.
Did paul ever mention by name wrongdoers?

Oh yes! I speak against it. But i will not mention Pastor's names and churches. I've never believed in extortion. I made mention of a friend of mine who left CE because she said her pastor, a lady, was 'greedy'. One day, maybe later, I'd share her story.

She was more that extorted. But I remember Pastor Chris this year vehemently opposing exactly same thing as what my friend's Pastor did to her. He did it with strong terms in this year's finance convention.

Now, a branch of CE did it, does it make the whole CE wrong or bad? I'm very sure that Pastor did it in ignorance, not as she was taught. That is why mentioning Pastor's and churches could be very erroneous. She misses Pastor Chris' meetings, alot, and can't seem to fit in another church, she listens to Pastor Chris at home, but I pray for her, always.

pickabeau1:
is the new chapter out

On the way bro... work got crazier today

You are good negro
God bless you sir!
You have seen the light

Did paul name names?

Gombs:


Oh yes! I speak against it. But i will not mention Pastor's names and churches. I've never believed in extortion. I made mention of a friend of mine who left CE because she said her pastor, a lady, was 'greedy'. One day, maybe later, I'd share her story.

She was more that extorted. But I remember Pastor Chris this year vehemently opposing exactly same thing as what my friend's Pastor did to her. He did it with strong terms in this year's finance convention.

Now, a branch of CE did it, does it make the whole CE wrong or bad? I'm very sure that Pastor did it in ignorance, not as she was taught. That is why mentioning Pastor's and churches could be very erroneous. She misses Pastor Chris' meetings, alot, and can't seem to fit in another church, she listens to Pastor Chris at home, but I pray for her, always.

Gombs:


On the way bro... work got crazier today

no problem

nlMediator:


Is it really hard to employ simple discipline? This thread has a particular focus - a book on prosperity. Why not limit your discussion to that topic? If you want to discuss other things - related or unrelated - there are threads here already for such silly business. Some of don't want to waste our time with all these distractions.

Is there something about that video that you do not want us to see?

Or is it the fact that Kenneth Hagin, the grandmaster WoFer, who in his sober moments wrote a book to restore order to a mess that he helped create, is seen in the video reeling around in drunken madness in a so called move of the spirit of laughter?

In case the import of that video is Iost on you, let me explain: Hagin will have us believe that there are excesses in the WoF that must be corrected, while others are left to flourish. Well, unlike others of his best selling books, this advice didn't work. Why because your followers usually imitate your actions and not mere words. If Mr Thompson, or whatever else his name is, was seen in an embarrassing video, it was because his "Baba" had been caught in camera doing worse.

The import of the video is simple: like father like son and it is very relevant to this thread.

.

Here's a post I made on another thread.
Notice that Paul did the rebuke 'before them all'.
Notice too that Peter's name is there for every generation of the church to see.

False doctrine is very damaging to the christian and the church than anything else.

trustman:
How about this on naming or never name names

Paul Rebukes Peter

Galatians 2:
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he had clearly done wrong. 12 Until certain people came from James, he had been eating with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself because he was afraid of those who were pro-circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also joined with him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray with them by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Now, which way do we go?

Paul rebuked publicly, Gombs wants it to be an in-house rebuke like 'baba' did. On face value, I kind of think Gombs is right, but if we must go by scripture we must boldly follow Paul just as he himself followed Christ.

shdemidemi:
Now, which way do we go?

Paul rebuked publicly, Gombs wants it to be an in-house rebuke like 'baba' did. On face value, I kind of think Gombs is right, but if we must go by scripture we must boldly follow Paul just as he himself followed Christ.

Scriptures twisted as usual. Paul wasn't on nairaland monkeying himself and gossiping or backbiting about dead people. He ACTUALLY withstood Peter to the face.
Two, Paul was right and Peter was clearly wrong, no debate.
Three, Paul corrected Peter in the spirit of meekness and love, not gloating like a rabid animal over Peter's mistake.
Four, Paul was Peter's mate as they were both apostles with marks and credibility. Unlike folks here who can't correct their kids to save their lives, but delude themselves with a calling to rain insults and jabs on ministers that they couldn't achieve a fraction of what they've done in three lifetimes. Spiritually, materially, academically and any other 'ally' there is.

Gombs does not want his MoG shamed and he knows if you start shaming them,this is inevitable. This is why he is playing 'civil'.

So shame the practice but not the practitioners

shdemidemi:
Now, which way do we go?

Paul rebuked publicly, Gombs wants it to be an in-house rebuke like 'baba' did. On face value, I kind of think Gombs is right, but if we must go by scripture we must boldly follow Paul just as he himself followed Christ.

Image123:

Unlike folks here who can't correct their kids to save their lives, but delude themselves with a calling to rain insults and jabs on ministers that they couldn't achieve a fraction of what they've done in three lifetimes. Spiritually, materially, academically and any other 'ally' there is.

Even if all the 'ally's were achieved with peoples hard earned money? Abeg park well my friend

Lobeez:


Even if all the 'ally's were achieved with peoples hard earned money? Abeg park well my friend

Why does it all boil down to money for you. The love of hard earned money ehn.

Image123:


Scriptures twisted as usual.

When it comes to twisting scriptures, you sure do not have a rival, at least none on this forum that I know.

Image123:

Paul wasn't on nairaland monkeying himself and gossiping or backbiting about dead people.

You are right, the man is sleeping, if he was truly of God, but his work is very much alive hence why we contend it to avoid the adversities it might cause to the body of Christ.

Image123:

He ACTUALLY withstood Peter to the face.

So I should be looking for Chris Oyaks or his fellow mind science, money doubling, greed gospel heralding pi-mps in camera before I can speak the truth like Paul did!

Image123:

Two, Paul was right and Peter was clearly wrong, no debate.

Are we right or wrong for all of that have been revealed so far, even with the 'midas touch' slight disapproval of the repulsive and ungodly acts of these men?

Image123:

Three, Paul corrected Peter in the spirit of meekness and love, not gloating like a rabid animal over Peter's mistake.

I wonder what your reply will be if I come to you and call you an hypocrite to your face. Your reaction will show us how kind and loving Paul really was with Peter.

Image123:

Four, Paul was Peter's mate as they were both apostles with marks and credibility. Unlike folks here who can't correct their kids to save their lives, but delude themselves with a calling to rain insults and jabs on ministers that they couldn't achieve a fraction of what they've done in three lifetimes. Spiritually, materially, academically and any other 'ally' there is.

Now age and material acquisitions have come in. No wonder Paul told Timothy to care less about his age when the old wolves come along.

PS- In no way did they compare to Paul in any way or form according to scripture. When Paul decided to speak as they would do, bragging about credentials, none of them came close to what Apostle Paul presented.

2 cor 11
22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.

23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.

25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;

26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.

shdemidemi:
Now, which way do we go?

Paul rebuked publicly, Gombs wants it to be an in-house rebuke like 'baba' did. On face value, I kind of think Gombs is right, but if we must go by scripture we must boldly follow Paul just as he himself followed Christ.

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Why don't we look at the scripture instead of continual conjectures that are fruitless.

1. Paul rebuked Peter.

2. This rebuke was in public, not an isolated ministers conference as Gombs wants us to believe. It was in Antioch, the same place they were first called Christians.

3. There is nothing in that scripture that depicts a sort of ministerial heriachy were Paul and Peter were mates. In those days the apostles were faithful to Jesus words that we are all brethren to the extent that a latter or Junior apostle like Paul could rebuke a senior one like Peter.

This passage is no justification for rebellion or confusion in church but the fact that believers should submit one to another and if God will speak through the least of apostles, the for most apostle should listen.

I am not sure what version if scripture Imsge123 is using to come to a conclusion of mates on a certain heriarchy.

WinsomeX:

I am not sure what version if scripture Imsge123 is using to come to a conclusion of mates on a certain heriarchy.

Image will eventually write his own bible with time, the guy constantly oppose and misinterpret scripture like it's his hubby.

Image123:


Scriptures twisted as usual. Paul wasn't on nairaland monkeying himself and gossiping or backbiting about dead people. He ACTUALLY withstood Peter to the face.
Two, Paul was right and Peter was clearly wrong, no debate.
Three, Paul corrected Peter in the spirit of meekness and love, not gloating like a rabid animal over Peter's mistake.
Four, Paul was Peter's mate as they were both apostles with marks and credibility. Unlike folks here who can't correct their kids to save their lives, but delude themselves with a calling to rain insults and jabs on ministers that they couldn't achieve a fraction of what they've done in three lifetimes. Spiritually, materially, academically and any other 'ally' there is.

Exactly... shedemidemi claimed Peter was rebuked publicly. He never mentioned it was in the midst of other Men of God, not public as in publicly.

but you got some classic sense of humor. the colored is sooooo true

WinsomeX:


Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 2:12 For before that certain came from James , he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all , If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Why don't we look at the scripture instead of continual conjectures that are fruitless.

1. Paul rebuked Peter.

2. This rebuke was in public, not an isolated ministers conference as Gombs wants us to believe. It was in Antioch, the same place they were first called Christians.

i believe you have comprehension skills... but if you think Peter stood and Paul was ebuking him in the presence of the whole brethren in Antioch church, fine. Keep the delusion up

3. There is nothing in that scripture that depicts a sort of ministerial heriachy were Paul and Peter were mates. In those days the apostles were faithful to Jesus words that we are all brethren to the extent that a latter or Junior apostle like Paul could rebuke a senior one like Peter.

Paul was Junior apostle shey? Because you read he said he is the least of the apostles, abi? So, you did not read one was to the circumcised church, the other uncircumcised abi? no wahala

This passage is no justification for rebellion or confusion in church but the fact that believers should submit one to another and if God will speak through the least of apostles, the for most apostle should listen.

oya, sit here an type away.

I am not sure what version if scripture Imsge123 is using to come to a conclusion of mates on a certain heriarchy.

i wish you would quit been biased

Image123:


Scriptures twisted as usual. Paul wasn't on nairaland monkeying himself and gossiping or backbiting about dead people. He ACTUALLY withstood Peter to the face.
Two, Paul was right and Peter was clearly wrong, no debate.
Three, Paul corrected Peter in the spirit of meekness and love, not gloating like a rabid animal over Peter's mistake.
Four, Paul was Peter's mate as they were both apostles with marks and credibility. Unlike folks here who can't correct their kids to save their lives, but delude themselves with a calling to rain insults and jabs on ministers that they couldn't achieve a fraction of what they've done in three lifetimes. Spiritually, materially, academically and any other 'ally' there is.

I saw the truth To my questions online so kudos to all those who strive to put the truth in cyber space.

The issue here is even not so much of correcting the practitioners because most of them believe they are superior to other christians but thank God hagin remembered to counter that lie. Most of them are completely sold out to the mammon they make from continued practice of these wrong and deceitful 'doctrines' and its futile to attempt to correct them. Its like the case of a seller of fake drugs. While we pray and wait for NAFDAC to arrest them, we owe it a duty to our friends, family and the larger society to point out the fake drugs they sell and their modus operandi. I'm indeed glad that Hagin saw fit to join this crusade in his own little way later in his life.

So threads like this are more about pointing out the lies, deceit, abuse and false practices going on in the name if Christianity. I have no doubt in my mind that most of the flamboyant men drawing large crowds today are not interested in hearing the truth. If they were, with the way they invoke Hagin's name and books in their messages, you would have expected them to pay small attention to the contents of Midas touch but they do not.

I keep asking why none of them mentions "The Midas Touch" in their sermons. "an old woman is always uncomfortable when old bones are mentioned in a proverb" goes an Igbo proverb. I would guess this is the case with pastors who avoid mentioning "The Midas Touch". They must be swimming in guilt that's if they still have a functioning conscience.

So for me, I'll keep pointing out the lies, fraud, deceit and wickedness that are perpetuated anywhere I see or hear them and whenever and in whatever way possible. I'll try to leave persons out of it as much as possible henceforth but I wonder how you can shame the practice and it won't rub off on the practitioner. As much as Hagin tried to avoid it, he tagged them with some adjectives I use myself even if he avoided mentioning names.

alright folks, i have been busier today, would upload tonight ... and a little change, our next topic is Chapter 4: THE PURPOSE OF PROSPERITY

it has wonderful topic such as;

God's People Must Prosper To Fulfill the Great Commission

Tithing—God's Plan for Financing The Church and Its Outreaches

Understand Why and How You Should Tithe

Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God

To Tithe or Not To Tithe

More Money Results in More Ministry

etc

from the above bold, let me put a little excerpt:

From time to time over the years, people have asked me if the practice of tithing is still valid for the Church today. "The New Testament really says very little about it," they say. "Should pastors and other ministers preach and encourage tithing with so little New Testament information on the subject. Should Christians be bound by the Old Testament Law?"
It is true that there is very little mention of tithing in the New Testament. Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:


"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders—hypocrites'. For you time down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things— justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone."
—Matthew 23:23 (TLB)


Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such a justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doesn't take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person's money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person should tithe.

Although the majority of biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And "by faith" is how we should tithe today—not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.

Genesis chapter 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, four hundred years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19,20;28:22).

By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, "... Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb. 7:22 NIV).
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:11-14

So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold—spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham—spiritually, physically, and financially.

We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body (Eph. 1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Do you see it? Through the Church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.

I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!


on second thought.. should i still put up chapter 4? Hagin explained Understand Why and How You Should Tithe ...it was a masterpiece.

^^^. Very good. Time to talk about regulated and unregulated tithes

At least, we are done with first fruits, 100-fold return, double portion return, using the parable of the sower to manipulate Christians into parting with money etc

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
2:12 For before that certain came from James , he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all , If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


Who is 'THEM'?

Gombs:


i believe you have comprehension skills... but if you think Peter stood and Paul was ebuking him in the presence of the whole brethren in Antioch church, fine. Keep the delusion up

Matthew 23-23, Jesus was having ago at the Pharisees, the story is not just about tithing, but about not following the lords commandments. You need to read more then just' one verse at a time, but read above and below, every chapter has a story. Jesus had seen, and witnessed, what these so called priesthood tithers were doing, they weren't obeying the commandments. But receiving' not only the tithes, but allowing business men to sell merchandise in the temple, it was Jesus who turned over the tables, and said: this is the lords house, a house of prayer. The Pharisees were visiting widows,who were loaded down with sins, not caring for the needy, wouldn't eat with the poor, pray against the tax collector, saying I thank you God I'm not one of these. "LISTEN" you need to come out of her my people' say's the lord. Its time you start watching, you have discernment when summer is near, but you have no discernment, when all these things are happening around you. Preaches-Pastors twisting the word of God, only to receive Monies." Listen people, the churches you maybe involved in" had signed up with the one world religion. Many of our beloved churches are preaching more on the monies, living it up, then preaching on salvation. Many who follow these churches, will find your Pastors are free masons. Free masons are into science, money and power. Hill song. as well as Kenneth Copeland. and many of our prosperity preachers, are now in our churches preaching that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. These Pastors-Preachers have change the music industry in our churches today. Many Pastors show hand signs of Satan. This is happening before your eye's. Don;t allow the blind to lead the blind. they are taking the tithing messages from the old testament, twisting it around so you become poorer, they want you to think Prosperity is the way to pay for your salvation, this is one of the biggest scrams there is on the planet. Wolves in sheep clothing are out of the wood-works, many of these non-believers are now running churches" that many of you are involved in. The lord's coming back. "Soon" Don't let these false prophets, take you to HELL...

Gombs:
alright folks, i have been busier today, would upload tonight ... and a little change, our next topic is Chapter 4: THE PURPOSE OF PROSPERITY

it has wonderful topic such as;

God's People Must Prosper To Fulfill the Great Commission

Tithing—God's Plan for Financing The Church and Its Outreaches

Understand Why and How You Should Tithe

Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God

To Tithe or Not To Tithe

More Money Results in More Ministry

etc

from the above bold, let me put a little excerpt:

From time to time over the years, people have asked me if the practice of tithing is still valid for the Church today. "The New Testament really says very little about it," they say. "Should pastors and other ministers preach and encourage tithing with so little New Testament information on the subject. Should Christians be bound by the Old Testament Law?"
It is true that there is very little mention of tithing in the New Testament. Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:


"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders—hypocrites'. For you time down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things— justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone."
—Matthew 23:23 (TLB)


Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such a justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doesn't take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person's money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person should tithe.

Although the majority of biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And "by faith" is how we should tithe today—not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.

Genesis chapter 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, four hundred years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19,20;28:22).

By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, "... Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb. 7:22 NIV).
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:11-14

So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold—spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham—spiritually, physically, and financially.

We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body (Eph. 1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Do you see it? Through the Church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.

I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!


on second thought.. should i still put up chapter 4? Hagin explained Understand Why and How You Should Tithe ...it was a masterpiece.

vooks:
Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
2:12 For before that certain came from James , he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all , If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


REBUKED BEFORE THEM ALL. Who is 'THEM'?

smh

If the people of God circumcised their boys BEFORE the Law, Moses was nearly killed over uncircumcision BEFORE the Law, they circumcised UNDER the Law,Jesus was circumcised, should we,who live by the grace do anything less when we have a better covenant?

I think we should circumcise boys and girls (FGM)

Gombs:

So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***

Candour:
^^^. Very good. Time to talk about regulated and unregulated tithes

At least, we are done with first fruits, 100-fold return, double portion return, using the parable of the sower to manipulate Christians into parting with money etc

Ah! the only sensible post so far after my Tithe post from the book Hagin wrote.

Hagin highlighted the law MERELY regulated tithing, and we tithe by faith (a fact you attacked me and Joagbaje for) check the tithes and offering thread. Now, If churches are not to tithe, how then should they raise funds? Offerings and free willed donations alone? right? ok

from what Hagin wrote, you think he missed it? if so, kindly point them out

Gombs:
alright folks, i have been busier today, would upload tonight ... and a little change, our next topic is Chapter 4: THE PURPOSE OF PROSPERITY
it has wonderful topic such as;
God's People Must Prosper To Fulfill the Great Commission
Tithing—God's Plan for Financing The Church and Its Outreaches
Understand Why and How You Should Tithe
Tithing Brings the Promised Blessings of God
To Tithe or Not To Tithe
More Money Results in More Ministry
etc
from the above bold, let me put a little excerpt:
From time to time over the years, people have asked me if the practice of tithing is still valid for the Church today. "The New Testament really says very little about it," they say. "Should pastors and other ministers preach and encourage tithing with so little New Testament information on the subject. Should Christians be bound by the Old Testament Law?"
It is true that there is very little mention of tithing in the New Testament. Two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, report the only recorded incident of Jesus saying anything about it. But in this instance, Jesus clearly affirmed His belief in the practice of tithing:

"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders—hypocrites'. For you time down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things— justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone."
—Matthew 23:23 (TLB)

Jesus upbraided the hypocritical religious leaders of His day who ignored vitally important parts of the Law such a justice, mercy, and faith, while meticulously paying the tithe they owed down to the last leaf in their garden. He was saying that giving money doesn't take the place of living right. God is not as interested in a person's money as He is in his heart. But Jesus did say that a person should tithe.
Although the majority of biblical references to the tithe are clearly part of the Old Covenant, the fact of the matter is that tithing was not introduced under the Law. It was merely regulated under the Law. Tithing originated as an act of faith, and faith transcends both the Old and New Covenants! And "by faith" is how we should tithe today—not as an act of legalism, but as an act of faith.
Genesis chapter 14 tells us how Abram paid tithes to Melchizedek, king of Salem and a priest of the Most High God, four hundred years before the time of Moses and the Law. Obviously, he did not pay tithes by legalistic requirement because he lived before the Law. Isaac and Jacob also lived before the Law and paid tithes (Gen. 18:19,20;28:22).

By faith, Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. We see this in the Book of Hebrews, which also tells us that, "... Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb. 7:22 NIV).
Galatians chapter 3 makes some crucially important statements.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
—Galatians 3:11-14
So should we pay tithes today? Absolutely! But we pay them like Abraham paid them—not by the Law, but by faith. And besides that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law and ten percent under the Law, should we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant? *** Wow, Good question***
Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest of the Most High God, who was a type of Christ. And he received the blessing, which was threefold—spiritual, physical, and material or financial. Because we are redeemed from the curse of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ, we have received the blessing of Abraham—spiritually, physically, and financially.

We, then, by faith follow the example of Abraham in paying tithes. We pay our tithes unto Christ! The Bible says in Ephesians that when God raised Jesus from the dead, He gave Him to be the Head over all things to the Church, which is His Body (Eph. 1:22,23). So when we pay tithes to Christ, the Head, they flow to His Body, the Church. Do you see it? Through the Church, we have the great privilege of giving to Jesus to do His will and work.
I believe if every Christian would be faithful in tithing and giving, there would be more than enough funds for the Church to carry out its mission in the world. Researchers have found that amazingly few born-again Americans tithe regularly, and a surprisingly large number give nothing! Imagine what could be accomplished if all Christians were faithful in their tithing and giving!
on second thought.. should i still put up chapter 4? Hagin explained Understand Why and How You Should Tithe ...it was a masterpiece.

There's absolutely no way you people can teach tithe without going back into self efforts or performance. You take us back into the law and wants us fall from Grace of God. You only hide under the umbrella of "BY FAITH. ..WE TITHE" You simply or quickly forget THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH. ..SO ALSO, FAITH IS NOT OF THE LAW. If Abraham tithed by faith, where is this monthly continuous tithing AS A LAW CAME FROM?

Faith that Abraham was justified by was clearly taught in scriptures, NOT THAT BELIEVERS ARE TO FOLLOW THE ACTS OF ABRAHAM. ...else, believers will sleep with their maids BY FAITH, we will lie BY FAITH, we'll go to physical war BY FAITH. We'll kill BY FAITH. I hope you people are not trying to twist THEY THAT ARE OF FAITH ARE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM?

vooks:
If the people of God circumcised their boys BEFORE the Law, Moses was nearly killed over uncircumcision BEFORE the Law, they circumcised UNDER the Law,Jesus was circumcised, should we,who live by the grace do anything less when we have a better covenant?

I think we should circumcise boys and girls (FGM)

Does what you wrote make sense at all? it doesnt to me

Gombs:


Ah! the only sensible post so far after my Tithe post from the book Hagin wrote.

Hagin highlighted the law MERELY regulated tithing, and we tithe by faith (a fact you attacked me and Joagbaje for) check the tithes and offering thread. Now, If churches are not to tithe, how then should they raise funds? Offerings and free willed donations alone? right? ok

from what Hagin wrote, you think he missed it? if so, kindly point them out

Go into scriptures, the NT...See how the early churches WAS ABLE TO DO EVERYTHING OR MOST THINGS WITHOUT RECORD OF ONE SINGLE TITHE COLLECTED. That's what we should stay with, NOT ADDING TO THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD.

the Law also 'merely' regulated circumcision,sacrifices and offerings. Were circumcision,sacrifices and offerings BEFORE the Law by faith?
It is nonsense to claim that tithing BEFORE Moses was by 'faith' since there was no Law as if no Law automatically means faith

Gombs:


Ah! the only sensible post so far after my Tithe post from the book Hagin wrote.

Hagin highlighted the law MERELY regulated tithing, and we tithe by faith (a fact you attacked me and Joagbaje for) check the tithes and offering thread. Now, If churches are not to tithe, how then should they raise funds? Offerings and free willed donations alone? right? ok

from what Hagin wrote, you think he missed it? if so, kindly point them out

Gombs, provide the whole text on tithe which Hagin taught and let's discuss. Though I cannot understand why you will believe us on tithes when you refuse to accept thst Hagin rejected firstfruit. Is it tithe, which he advocated, that you will now accept?

[quote author=Goshen360 post=27388895]

There's absolutely no way you people can teach tithe without going back into self efforts or performance. You take us back into the law and wants us fall from Grace of God. You only hide under the umbrella of "BY FAITH. ..WE TITHE" You simply or quickly forget THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH. ..SO ALSO, FAITH IS NOT OF THE LAW. If Abraham tithed by faith, where is this monthly continuous tithing AS A LAW CAME FROM?

It is not a monthly thing, i tithe of all my increase, salary, bonus, dash, etc... one can tithe as much as 6 times a month... it is not a monthly thing, nor a law.

Faith that Abraham was justified by was clearly taught in scriptures, NOT THAT BELIEVERS ARE TO FOLLOW THE ACTS OF ABRAHAM. ...else, believers will sleep with their maids BY FAITH,

stop being cynical. But you follow his act of worship, his act of responding to the Word and also claim his blessings by faith, was sleeping with Hagar an act of faith? It was Sarahs idea, not his.

we will lie BY FAITH,

so Abraham lied? stop being like this na, was Sarah not really his sister?

we'll go to physical war BY FAITH.

David fought and won wars by faith, for God was with him in it. Now, why not call God biased for promoting wars then and telling us not to?

We'll kill BY FAITH. I hope you people are not trying to twist THEY THAT ARE OF FAITH ARE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM?

you never fail to disapoint