italo:
^^^ So Jesus was not God abi?!

He was an ordinary man?!

May God help you.

italo:
^^^ So Jesus was not God abi?!

He was an ordinary man?!

May God help you.

Barnabaseloka:

Your claim on the possibility of Jesus calling Mary 'woman' when He was growing up under her care cannot be ascertained by the Scriptures. I choose to write like this b/c you insisted on my showing you scripturally where Jesus called Mary 'mother' in His childhood. But everyone knows the truth of this that the childhood life was not recorded in the bible. Yet, we know that we call the ones that gave birth to us 'mothers'.

Remember when Jesus told His parents that He had to be in His Father's business. It was recorded that they did not understand what He was saying, yet Mary kept these words in her heart.
When Jesus started His ministry, it should not have been a surprise to Mary when Jesus referred to her as 'woman', instead of 'mother'. Mary understood that Jesus was sent by God on a mission and thus called the Son of God as I have quoted earlier. Mary understood that it was a privilege for her to give birth to Jesus (the Son of God) on earth. That was why she was not bothered when Jesus began to manifest who He really was.

Barnabaseloka:

I said that Mary knew that He could (had the power) to perform miracle there. Or did Jesus not have the power to perform miracle there?
Why was it that Jesus did not do something when Mary came to Him? Jesus was clearly making it clear that He was not at the call and beck of Mary as when He had not started His ministry. He asked Mary 'what has your concern got to do with Me?' He was indirectly telling Mary that she should not tell Him what to do and that He does things the way and the time He wants to do them.

When Mary realised that Jesus would not respond to her demands, she went to the servants and directed them to Jesus. She told them that whatever He told them to do that they should do so. This put Jesus clearly in charge of doing so or not. Being that Mary was out of the way, He decided of His own freewill or choice to do the miracle, not that Mary influenced Him into doing it.

Syncan:
If you want to know what influence she wields over her son, all you need to do is read Jn 2:1-12, where she made Jesus perform his first miracle, even when His "hour has not yet come".

Scholar8200:
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. (Mary was neither needed nor mentioned here). When the Word was to be made flesh, God "... sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"(Galatians 4:4) Just as Eve was made of Adam 1Corinth 11:12
For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

( Note that it did not say made by a woman) hence God the Holy Ghost did the making (incarnation) and Mary was the virgin (out of many) chosen. Just as we dont exalt Mary whose action was to be a memorial wherever the gospel was preached, we need not exalt she who was used(more like a tool or channel) to accomplish a Divine purpose!
Isaiah 10:15
15 Shall the ax boast itself against him who chops with it? Or shall the saw magnify itself against him who wields it back and forth? As if a rod should wield those who lift it up, or as if a staff should lift itself up as if it were not wood [but a man of God]!


It is wrong to exalt the tool above He who wields it. Mary (thankfully) didnt, we shouldnt.

Syncan:


You cannot show me where He called her Mother, all I see is claims, claims, claims...and unfounded for that matter. What is it that you are going round and round about? You wanted to see where Jesus called Mary Mother in his Public Ministry, I asked you to tell me Where He called her mother in his infancy. You then assumed that he called her mother in infancy but stopped during his public ministry, an assumption I do not agree with since it's your own opinion and not scripture backed, because in my understanding, any one that calls someone who gave birth to him mother, never stops calling her mother except as a disrespect. Again even if by any prevailing circumstance a person refuses to acknowledge the one who bore him; as mother, that does not erase the fact that she is his mother, the one who carried him for the number of months and gave birth to him at the appointed time. Motherhood is not based on the acknowledgement of the son, stop redefining a word to suit your opinion. Funny how each time you refer to Jesus elsewhere you call Him God, but when you refer to him as Mary's son he becomes "the son of God", do you think it makes it a lower personality or what?

HopeAlive14:


You want to make us believe that Jesus' performance of this miracle was as a result of the "influence she wields" over her son?

The truth remains that when "His hour came" He performed the miracle!

Certainly not at any supposed influence Mary "WIELDS".

Presuming or even teaching so is arrogating to her powers that are scripturally baseless and unmerited.

Barnabaseloka:

Why is it that you choose not to understand things? What do we call those that gave birth to us? Yes I assumed that Mary was called 'mother' by Jesus when He was under her care. This is b/c the activities surrounding Jesus' growing up were not recorded in the Scriptures. Or do you want everything that Jesus did from infancy to adulthood to be written down? I laid my claim on it b/c no one will call his mother 'woman'. Even you arging this know that Jesus should have called Mary 'mother' when he was growing up. This is natural and cannot be denied whether it was written or not. So accept the truth as it is written in that Jesus called Mary 'woman' and not 'mother' during His work to accomplish His mission on earth. Accept another truth as it is written that Jesus said that His mother, brothers and sisters are those who do the will of the Father in heaven. These ones are very clear and undisputed, unless you want to claim that they were not true.

Syncan:



Try harder. I hope you know what directed them to Jesus means. Is it the servants problem that wine is finished? Did the servants then go to Jesus for anything? Mary simply gave an instruction, she directed them to nobody. The mother and son know their language very well, She knew her son already understands what she wants, she then instructed the servants to be ready and do whatever he tells them without questioning. This passage simply shows how bonded mother and child are to each other, and how well Mary knew her son. Those of us who have or had close relationships with our mothers can understand this relationship, more also because we often witness similar filial bonds in our daily lives. Keep struggling to deny what is obvious, Jesus turned water into wine, even though it wasn't his time, just because his mother made that request.

Scholar8200:
While on earth, someone even attempted to exalt Mary but was corrected:

Luke 11:27,28

27 Now it occurred that as He was saying these things, a certain woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, Blessed (happy and [l]to be envied) is the womb that bore You and the breasts that You sucked!

28 But He said, Blessed (happy and [m]to be envied) rather are those who hear the Word of God and obey and practice it!

Barnabaseloka:

What you should know is that Jesus is very compassionate. Do you remember how he sensed that the crowd was hungry and provided them with food to eat (not just only once). Did you expect Jesus to be invited to the wedding and feel insensitive towards the finished wine in that some drank while some did not?

Mary came to Jesus herself but Jesus did not show interest or concern in what she was saying. When she saw that Jesus was not concerned about what she was saying, she went to the servants and directed them to Jesus. Remember the question 'what has your concern got to do with Me? Jesus was indirectly telling her to leave Him alone, that if she was concerned about the finished wine, she should do something about it herself and not make Him obey her.

How do you now claim that she used the servants to infuence Jesus? Mary did the needful thing by directing them to Jesus but never told Jesus to perform the miracle. She only told the servants to obey Jesus and left Jesus alone to do whatever He wanted to do. Jesus had the choice to do it or not. But decided to do the miracle so that eceryone would have wine to drink. She never influenced Jesus doing the miracle at the wedding.

Syncan:


Please kindly accept the truth that scripture never recorded Jesus calling Mary mother even in his infancy. Even when he was found in the temple after three days. Please accept the truth that Motherhood does not depend on whether the child calls you mother or not. Please accept the truth that Mary bore a child who is God; in her womb for the period of gestation, and gave birth to a son who is God at Bethlehem. Please accept the truth that no one did the "will of the father in heaven" more than Mary "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word". Please accept the truth that the "Seed" in Gen.3:15 is Jesus and the "Woman" is Mary.

Barnabaseloka:

Don't be offended. We all know that Mary gave birth to Jesus (God) physically. But spiritually, Jesus has no mother but only ONE Father.

Barnabaseloka:


Remember that Jesus created all things, including Mary.

Syncan:


Jesus could not have contradicted the Holy Spirit who spoke through the angel in Lk 1:42 "blessed are you among women". Jesus cannot contradict the Holy Spirit who spoke through Elizabeth in Lk 1:45 "and blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord". Jesus could not have contradicted the Holy Spirit who Spoke through Mary Lk 1:48 "henceforth all generations shall call me blessed". Think.

Syncan:
You already formed an opinion and you now clutch on anything just to protect it. Even when someone cast doubts on the trinity, you alligned with him just because he supports your opinion on Mary. That's not how to be honest, recall I called for honesty from you at the very beginning. Scripture is there for you to see, it is filled with influences of mothers on their children, it doesn't matter who they are, Solomon, Jacob, Jesus, even in our days...Syncan.

Syncan:


Jesus could not have contradicted the Holy Spirit who spoke through the angel in Lk 1:42 "blessed are you among women". Jesus cannot contradict the Holy Spirit who spoke through Elizabeth in Lk 1:45 "and blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord". Jesus could not have contradicted the Holy Spirit who Spoke through Mary Lk 1:48 "henceforth all generations shall call me blessed". Think.

Syncan:



First I never said the bold. Secondly, the one in red is mere fabrications. Thirdly, tell me you've never been reluctant about your mother's request and still did it for her. Even Jesus gave the parable of a man who sent his sons to farm. One said I will go, but did not. One said he wasn't going and later went. Did you remember the question of Jesus? He said "Who among the two did the father's will"? Matt 21:31. It is the mother's request, it matters not if he hesitated or not, he still did the mother's will.

HopeAlive14:


Jesus Is (not was) God.

Good. Meaning Mary IS (Not "was" Jesus-God's mother.

HopeAlive14:



The question is: Because Mary gave birth to Him, does that make her "the mother of God?"

chinemeomire:
This is a bitter truth that non catholic find very hard to accept, but not accepting it doesn't make any difference. She is and will always remain the mother of God.

italo:


So Jesus was without spirit in the womb of Mary?

The Jesus who walked the streets of Israel was just body without spirit?




I remember.

Remember that Mary carried Jesus who is God in her womb, she gave birth to Jesus God, she breastfed Jesus - God...etc.

Do you remember?

HopeAlive14:


You want to make us believe that Jesus' performance of this miracle was as a result of the "influence she wields" over her son? The truth remains that when "His hour came" He performed the miracle!
Certainly not at any supposed influence Mary "WIELDS".

Presuming or even teaching so is arrogating to her powers that are scripturally baseless and unmerited.

italo:
No. It makes her his father. I guess the woman who gave birth to you is your father.

italo:
John2:4 “Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”
[/b]This is a case of a person calling Jesus a liar just because he doesn't like the Catholic Church.

Barnabaseloka:
Mary WAS (not IS) the mother of Jesus (God). This was b/c she was chosen by God to bring forth Jesus into the world, and bring Him up as other parents do. Jesus obeyed His parents till He was about to start His mission on earth. During His ministry on earth, He never acknowledge Mary as the mother but always called her WOMAN, instead of MOTHER.
The question is: Did Jesus create Mary?

chinemeomire:
This is a bitter truth that non catholic find very hard to accept, but not accepting it doesn't make any difference. She is and will always remain the mother of God.

Barnabaseloka:

No, but people disown their mothers even today for several reasons, Jesus' case was a different one.

if Jesus created Mary, how come that she is still the mother as of today? Remember that Jesus was not born through the coming together of Mary and Joseph. He was implanted in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was in heaven with the Father before He (Jesus) agreed to enter the world through Mary. Mary submitted to God's will to carry Jesus in the womb and bring Him forth to the world.
Yes, physically Mary gave birth to Jesus and so she was considered as the mother. But is it not a height of irresponsibility from Jesus to have addressed Mary as 'WOMAN' during his Ministry? Can you do that to your earthly mother?

Before His ministry, He acknowledged Mary as the mother and obeyed His parents.
Luke 2:48-51
48. So when they saw Him, they were amazed, and His mother said to Him, Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.
49. And He said to them, Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business (the purpose for His coming on earth).
50. But they did not understand which He spoke to them.
51. Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was SUBJECT to (obeyed) them; but His mother kept all these things in her mind.

But here, Jesus never acknowledged Mary as the mother, nor obeyed her when He set out to achieve the purpose for coming on earth.
Mt.12:46-50
46. While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him.
47. Then one said to Him, Look Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.
48. But He answered and said to the one wno told Him, Who is My MOTHER and who are my brothers?
49. And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, Here are My MOTHER and My brothers.
50. For WHOEVER does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and MOTHER.
Are you wiser than Jesus who said that His Mother and brothers are those who do the will of the Father in heaven? Or did Jesus make a mistake by saying it?

I say it again that Mary was chosen by God to play the motherly role to Jesus till He began to carry out the mission why He came on earth.

Question: Can you show me just ONE passage only from the Scriptures where Jesus acknowledged Mary as the mother or called her 'MOTHER' when He started His ministry on earth?