Barnabaseloka:

Yes, she remains the mother of Jesus (God) earthly. But has no influence on Jesus who is in heaven now. Remember Mary is dead like some other people and awaiting the resurrection day to be judged by Jesus on how she lived her life on earth. Know it that spiritually (in heaven) Mary is not the mother of Jesus.

Please take a look at the bold and take a look at the title of the thread, then tell me what you're arguing about.

HopeAlive14:


Sir Syncan, I think your response below to the above is odd.

Yes, Jesus could not have contradicted the Holy Spirit. So He didn't make the statement in Luke 11:27,28?

Its good you know that He could not have contradicted the Holy spirit. It's good you know the Holy Spirit Inspired those words I quoted. What is left for you is to find out what Jesus was teaching, He is a great teacher you know? Don't just say things that suggest that Jesus contradicted the Holy Spirit, just because you want to win an argument. Remember even atheists are reading this.

Barnabaseloka:

Do you say that Jesus being compassionate even in feeding the crowd was fabricated? You should have only said that to Jesus not having to be insensitive to the finished wine in that some drank and some did not. It was never written that Mary made Jesus do that miracle. Jesus performed that miracle at the time He chose to perform it. No human being influenced Jesus doing any miracle at any point in time during His ministry. So do not base your claim on assumptions.

This is purely your opinion, the story is there for all to see. Thank God Jesus said "My hour have not yet come", you cannot remove that from scripture. May God be praised.

italo:


Who compiled the Bible?

This is a question Segbe88 has asked which you dodged.

I have told you that I don't want to go into history or theology. Does the bible you have tell you about God and what you need to do to inherit the kingdom of God? The conclusion of the whole matter is 'Fear God and keep His commands'. When you quote a passage, is it not from the one in your possession that you make reference to? I am not here to argue who compiled the bible as long as what is written there tells us how to live godly lives and make heaven at last. Or will knowing who compiled the bible make people more or less being christians? But p/s I will like to know who compiled the bible.

italo:


Jesus existed before Mary yet the Angel of the Lord called Mary his MOTHER.

Kindly show us where this is in the Bible.

Psalm 45:9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

This is not Mary but the Bride of Christ, the Church, in prophecy. Proof? see

Psalm 45:10,11

Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear;
forget also thine own people, and thy father’s house;

11 so shall the king greatly desire thy beauty:
for he is thy Lord ; and worship thou him.

The reference is to the called out ones who have surrendered to the Lordship of Christ!

Revelations 19:7,8 explains further
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

This was a symbol of Israel hence the twelve stars on the crown are the 12 tribes. Revelations makes use of symbols just like Jesus is called the Lamb with Seven Horns (symbolizing perfection of Strength) etc Israel, being the nation through which the Messiah will come has been under intense attack from the dragon (satan).

See Revelations 12:14

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Note that it did not say she flew to[b] heaven but to the wilderness[/b]! During the great tribulation, the israelites will flee to the wilderness and the period mentioned is given 3.5 years!
[/quote]
It is also written that Mary stands at the right of Jesus...and she is queen in heaven.[/quote] This is not found in the scripture!

HopeAlive14:


I think you are just being sarcastic in your remark, which frankly, is unnecessary.

Jesus was called "Son of David" severally in the bible; does that make David His father?

Yes.

Barnabaseloka:

I have told you that I don't want to go into history or theology. Does the bible you have tell you about God and what you need to do to inherit the kingdom of God? The conclusion of the whole matter is 'Fear God and keep His commands'. When you quote a passage, is it not from the one in your possession that you make reference to? I am not here to argue who compiled the bible as long as what is written there tells us how to live godly lives and make heaven at last. Or will knowing who compiled the bible make people more or less being christians? But p/s I will like to know who compiled the bible.

Typical protestant hypocrisy.

Just answer the question by saying who compiled the bible or telling us if you don't know who compiled it.

Barnabaseloka:

Then, the early apostles said things as were directed by the Holy Spirit and told the believers to hold unto them so that they would not be deceived by false teachings or doctrines. Then, the words they spoke were not compiled together. But now, the words they spoke and the letters they wrote to believers have been compiled to make it easy for believers to read and understand. Any other teaching anywhere that is not based on the ones compiled in the bible as directed by the Holy Spirit need to be discarded.

Where all the apostles teachings/traditions by word of mouth compiled in the Bible?

Scholar8200:
Calling her blessed is not the same as placing her on the pedestal of Him Who was from the beginning! How do you understand the Word - Blessed? The same word was used by Jesus in the beatitudes. Just like Noah, Mary found favour in the sight of God and the Lord used her like He's still doing with many others today.

Mary also was one of the recipients of the Holy Spirit on the day of pentecost, like every other disciple. In fact, apart from Acts 1, she was not mentioned as a prominent figure or an object of special adoration in the early church. When the issue in Acts 15 came up, (if she is to be reverenced like you do today) she will have been consulted but no!

keep denying truth. It is You that quoted Lk 11:27,28 "Now it occurred that as He was saying these things, a certain woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, Blessed (happy and [l]to be envied) is the womb that bore You and the breasts that You sucked! But He said, Blessed (happy and [m]to be envied) rather are those who hear the Word of God and obey and practice it! What the woman did was call her blessed and You claimed Jesus corrected this woman from exalting Mary. Now I have shown you why you are wrong with several scriptural backing in the post you quoted, Lk1:42,45,48, where the Holy Spirit through different media has said she is and is to be called blessed. Now you are explaining what calling her blessed mean, are you not arguing with yourself? I told you to Think, now am going to add harden not your heart.

Statements made so far
Mary, mother of God.
Mary , child of God .
Mary, queen in heaven
Mary , bride in heaven.

Ok , Mary is created by God to be his mother while still his child so that later she can be impregnated by him to be his queen while she is still a bride.

Pidgin : god create you ,come give you belle so you go be god mama, later god mama go be god queen (wife)as god mama don be him bride.

No wonder people who believe this doctrine say its a mystery and hide prove to its traditional source.

HopeAlive14:


I do not see where I have been dishonest in this discussion.

Also know that I do not believe in the teaching of Trinity (Three Persons in One God), but that is a discussion for another day.

And since you have agreed that Mary is the mother of "Jesus, Son Alone God" (excluding God the Father and God the Holy Ghost), I propose that the Catholic church should rephrase their "Hail Mary, mother of God" prayer to accommodate this belief.

You complain about sarcasm, but you're dishing it out yourself.

Barnabaseloka:

She was called blessed b/c she obtained favour (not that she merited it) from God to give birth to Jesus. This birth was a special birth in that it would bring the Saviour into the world. Mary only believed the message of the angel and she conceived by the Holy Spirit and gave birth to Jesus.
What other interpretation do you want to give to these passages?

Don't just say something because you want to argue, say something to make sense. Why did I make that post and what are you fighting with there?

Barnabaseloka:

1. Yes I accept the truth that the Scriptures did not record Jesus calling Mary 'mother' in His infancy. Also it did not record Jesus calling Mary 'mother' during His ministry.

2. Yes motherhood is not just about calling someone mother. But you need to call your mum 'mother' and not 'woman' when addressing her.

3. Yes I accept that Mary bore Jesus (God) physically. But remember that Jesus is greater than Mary and that Jesus created Mary. Spiritually, Jesus has no mother but has ONLY ONE father. Or do you want to claim that the Father has a wife and that Jesus is their offspring.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only BEGOTTEN Son.....' So if Mary is always the mother, both on earth and in heaven, how was Jesus the begotten of the Father?

4. No, there is no bibilical backup that said that no one did the will of God more than Mary. Every child of God does the will of God and there is no competition who does the will of God more than others. After doing the will of God, count yourself as an unprofitable servant. Tthis is b/c you only did what you are supposed to do (Luke 17:10) The Holy Spirit gives differnt abilities to children of God as He wills so that they can do the will of God (I Corinth. 10:11).

5. Yes, the woman was Mary and the seed was Jesus

At the bold, thank you, that's all there is to know. At the one in Italics, Your mother is your mother because she bore you on earth. No body has said your mother is your mother, both on earth and wherever next. We are here on earth, Mary bore God on earth, Mary is the mother of God.

italo:


Jesus existed before Mary yet the Angel of the Lord called Mary his MOTHER.

Psalm 45:9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.


It is also written that Mary stands at the right of Jesus...and she is queen in heaven.

No one doubts the fact that Mary was the mother of Jesus on earth. Her motherly role ceased when Jesus started His ministry, obeying ONLY God, There is no motherly role that Mary still plays in the life of Jesus today. I hope you remember when the mother of James and John requested Jesus to see to it that her two sons sit at His left and right hands? Jesus clearly stated that it was only the Father that has the authority to decide those that would sit at His left and right hands. They are believers who ran this christian race to the end and not just one person.

I have said it that people should not contradict any other passage of the Scriptures to prove a point. If you quote a passage and it contradicts another passage, then the one who quoted it has misinterpreted it.
First of all read all the passages of Psalm 45 to have an understanding of what David said.
No passage in the bible ever support the claim whether indirectly or directly that the queen illustrated here is Mary.

Rev.12 talked about the birth of Jesus and any description given her was to show the glory of God upon her life b/c of the Child (Jesus) whom she had in her womb. Here the word 'woman' was used and not 'queen' and from the Scriptures we understand that the woman was Mary. If you read the whole chapter, you will discover that the Devil (through Herod) wanted to kill Jesus when He was born but the parents took Him to Egypt. So, Rev.12 tells us what surrounded the birth of Jesus and how God rescued Him from being killed by satan.

Have you not read that 'Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God'? Have you not read that it is appointed unto man once to die and after that judgement? Also tell me that Mary did not die and hence awaiting the ressurection day and that she is seated with Jesus in heaven. No passage in the Scriptures ever interpreted, whether clearly or not, that Mary is the queen of heaven. Mary as a human being believed in Jesus and became a child of God. She died just like every other human being and waiting for the trumpet to sound to rise to life.

Rev.20:11-15
11.Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13. The sea gave up the dead, who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged each one according to his works.
14. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And ANYONE (no exception) not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
1 Thes.4:16-17
16. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them, in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the lLord.
1 Corinth.15:27. For He (God) has put ALL THINGS under His (Jesus) feet. But when He says all things are put under Him, it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
Jesus controls all things (humans, angels and the world at large without any exception). Only God is excepted.

Therefore when you want to lay claim to something in the Scriptures, compare it with other passages to get a better understanding of such passage/s.

Syncan:


Please take a look at the bold and take a look at the title of the thread, then tell me what you're arguing about.

There is no doubt that Mary was the mother of Jesus. I used the word earthly to show that her motherly role ended here on earth. Mary plays no motherly role on Jesus now. Or are you trying to state otherwise?

Scholar8200:
Kindly show us where this is in the Bible.

Matt 2:13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt

So do you now agree that Mary is the mother of Jesus who is God?

Scholar8200:


This is not Mary but the Bride of Christ, the Church, in prophecy. Proof? see

Psalm 45:10,11

Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear;
forget also thine own people, and thy father’s house;

11 so shall the king greatly desire thy beauty:
for he is thy Lord ; and worship thou him.

The reference is to the called out ones who have surrendered to the Lordship of Christ!

Revelations 19:7,8 explains further
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

In the Jewish culture, a Davidic King would have his mother as Queen rather than his wife.

Almost every time a new king is introduced in 1 and 2 Kings, the king’s mother is mentioned. She was a member of the royal court, wore a crown, sat on a throne, and shared in the king’s reign (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jer. 13:18–20). She acted as counselor to her son (Prov. 31), an advocate of the people, and as an intercessor for the citizens of the kingdom (1 Kings 2:17–20). Since Jesus is a King based on the order of David, it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen.

In 1 Kings 2:20, Solomon said to his Mother Bathsheba, seated on a throne at his right, "Make your request, Mother, for I will not refuse you

Do you know these?

Scholar8200:


This was a symbol of Israel hence the twelve stars on the crown are the 12 tribes. Revelations makes use of symbols just like Jesus is called the Lamb with Seven Horns (symbolizing perfection of Strength) etc Israel, being the nation through which the Messiah will come has been under intense attack from the dragon (satan).

See Revelations 12:14

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Note that it did not say she flew to[b] heaven but to the wilderness[/b]! During the great tribulation, the israelites will flee to the wilderness and the period mentioned is given 3.5 years!

So it wasn't Mary that was pregnant with Jesus and bore him anymore. Abi?

Scholar8200:


It is also written that Mary stands at the right of Jesus...and she is queen in heaven. This is not found in the scripture!

You choose not to find it in scripture because you have decided that the "called out ones" is the queen in heaven.

Ps 45:17 I will perpetuate your memory through all generations;
    therefore the nations will praise you for ever and ever.

Luke 1:48From now on all generations will call me blessed

Was it also the "called out ones" that spoke the above words in Luke 1?

You have decided that Israel is the one that carried Jesus in the womb and bore him.

When the same Sun, moon and stars bowed to Joseph, was Joseph 'The nation of Israel?'

italo:


Typical protestant hypocrisy.

Just answer the question by saying who compiled the bible or telling us if you don't know who compiled it.

Ok. I don't know b/c I have not really got time to do research on it. Are you satisfied now? Tell me who compiled the bible.

italo:


Where all the apostles teachings/traditions by word of mouth compiled in the Bible?

No. Do you expect everything they said to be compiled? Obey the ones you have with you before talking about going for the complete one. You have got more than enough at your disposal, so make do with them, first.

Barnabaseloka:

There is no doubt that Mary was the mother of Jesus. I used the word earthly to show that her motherly role ended here on earth. Mary plays no motherly role on Jesus now. Or are you trying to state otherwise?

Chai...Smh. Truth eludes you. Mary Is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Primary school Question paper:

General Paper.

Question: Who is the mother of Fela Kuti

Answer: Mrs funmilayo ransome Kuti


Religious Knowledge.

Question : Who is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Answer: The blessed Virgin Mary

The earlier you acknowledge this truth, the better for you. everything else you write there has nothing to do with this truth.

Syncan:



keep denying truth. It is You that quoted Lk 11:27,28 "Now it occurred that as He was saying these things, a certain woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, Blessed (happy and [l]to be envied) is the womb that bore You and the breasts that You sucked! But He said, Blessed (happy and [m]to be envied) rather are those who hear the Word of God and obey and practice it! What the woman did was call her blessed and You claimed Jesus corrected this woman from exalting Mary. Now I have shown you why you are wrong with several scriptural backing in the post you quoted, Lk1:42,45,48, where the Holy Spirit through different media has said she is and is to be called blessed. Now you are explaining what calling her blessed mean, are you not arguing with yourself? I told you to Think, now am going to add harden not your heart.

Jesus did not contradict the message of the angel. Yes all nations shall call her blessed and that was what the woman did. Jesus was trying to show her the more important thing that believers should do to attract blessings from God, not by calling Mary 'blessed'.

dolphinheart:
Statements made so far
Mary, mother of God.
Mary , child of God .
Mary, queen in heaven
Mary , bride in heaven.

Ok , Mary is created by God to be his mother while still his child so that later she can be impregnated by him to be his queen while she is still a bride.

Pidgin : god create you ,come give you belle so you go be god mama, later god mama go be god queen (wife)as god mama don be him bride.

No wonder people who believe this doctrine say its a mystery and hide prove to its traditional source.

So where do you stand?

Syncan:



Don't just say something because you want to argue, say something to make sense. Why did I make that post and what are you fighting with there?

Sorry if I have offended you. Can you make your post clearer?

Barnabaseloka:

No one doubts the fact that Mary was the mother of Jesus on earth. Her motherly role ceased when Jesus started His ministry, obeying ONLY God,
14.

This is what opposition to God's Catholic Church does to a man. He becomes like the proverbial man whom the gods, when intending to destroy him, first make him deaf.

John 19:25 - Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen

First you called Jesus a liar by saying his time had come when he said it hadn't come.

Again you call the Holy Spirit a liar.

Syncan:



At the bold, thank you, that's all there is to know. At the one in Italics, Your mother is your mother because she bore you on earth. No body has said your mother is your mother, both on earth and wherever next. We are here on earth, Mary bore God on earth, Mary is the mother of God.

It is an undisputed fact that Mary was (not is) the mother of God. The word 'is' means that she still acts as the mother today, which is not true. It has passed so use the word 'was'. When we want to talk about Mary being the mother of Jesus,, with reference to His birth, we have to say 'Mary was the mother of Jesus'. And do not put it as if she still plays any role as the mother in His life today.

Barnabaseloka:

Jesus did not contradict the message of the angel. Yes all nations shall call her blessed and that was what the woman did. Jesus was trying to show her the more important thing that believers should do to attract blessings from God, not by calling Mary 'blessed'.

At bold, hence according to you, calling Mary "blessed" is an important thing, but not more important than doing the will of God (which includes calling Mary blessed). Ok then, thankfully Jesus has something to say about such situations thus:"These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others".Matt. 23:23. Are you doing that?

Syncan:


Chai...Smh. Truth eludes you. Mary Is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Primary school Question paper:

General Paper.

Question: Who is the mother of Fela Kuti

Answer: Mrs funmilayo ransome Kuti


Religious Knowledge.

Question : Who is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Answer: The blessed Virgin Mary

The earlier you acknowledge this truth, the better for you. everything else you write there has nothing to do with this truth.

It is only when a mother is still living that sb will ask 'Who is the mother of ....?' As long as the mother is dead, the right question becomes 'Who was the mother of ....?'. Anyway that is by the way. Let me ask you a question. Does Mary still have influence (play motherly role) in the life of Jesus today?

Barnabaseloka:

Ok. I don't know b/c I have not really got time to do research on it.

You don't know who compiled it and you are using it as an authority on Christian matters. What if it was compiled by devil worshippers who included some deceptive verses and excluded important ones?

Barnabaseloka:

Are you satisfied now? Tell me who compiled the bible.

The Catholic Church compiled the Bible in the fourth century. It used the same authority, tradition and spiritual insight it has to do the following:

1. Declare Mary the Mother of God.
2. Decide which books are scripture and which aren't.
3. Declare the Canon of scripture closed.
Etc.

If they erred, and Mary is not the mother of God, then they could have also erred, and maybe Revelations or Luke or Matthew is not scripture.

And perhaps canon of scripture is still open so the Holy spirit could inspire me or you or Pope or Pastor TB Joshua to write scripture.

I say they didn't/cannot err in teachings of faith and morals.

What do you say?

Syncan:


Chai...Smh. Truth eludes you. Mary Is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Primary school Question paper:

General Paper.

Question: Who is the mother of Fela Kuti

Answer: Mrs funmilayo ransome Kuti


Religious Knowledge.

Question : Who is the mother of Jesus Christ.

Answer: The blessed Virgin Mary

The earlier you acknowledge this truth, the better for you. everything else you write there has nothing to do with this truth.

It is only when a mother still lives that the right question becomes 'Who is the mother of ....?' As long as the mother is dead the right question becomes 'Who was the mother of ....?' Anyway that is by the way. Let me ask you a question. Does Mary still have influence (play motherly role) in the life of Jesus today?

Barnabaseloka:

Sorry if I have offended you. Can you make your post clearer?

Sorry, you didn't offend me, that post was filled with scripture used to correct someone's false claim. You quoted my post, yet you were talking out of context as if the post was quarreling with your submission, so I had to call your attention to it. Yes, this is coming like a debate, but we should note that this is a matter of life, only the truth sets one free. Not winning the debate.

Barnabaseloka:

No. Do you expect everything they said to be compiled? Obey the ones you have with you before talking about going for the complete one. You have got more than enough at your disposal, so make do with them, first.

I'm obeying the ones I have which include scripture and Church tradition.

That is why I accept the Bible, because Church tradition gave it to us.

Did scripture say anywhere that Christians should compile or read bible?

Barnabaseloka:

It is only when a mother still lives that the right question becomes 'Who is the mother of ....?' As long as the mother is dead the right question becomes 'Who was the mother of ....?' Anyway that is by the way. Let me ask you a question. Does Mary still have influence (play motherly role) in the life of Jesus today?

Your problem is that you doubt Jesus.

Jesus said: "Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die" Jn 11:26. He even used Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as examples thus: "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living" Matt. 22:32. Please try to believe Jesus, Mary is living just as these Patriarchs. What is it you want again?

italo:


This is what opposition to God's Catholic Church does to a man. He becomes like the proverbial man whom the gods, when intending to destroy him, first make him deaf.

John 19:25 - Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen

First you called Jesus a liar by saying his time had come when he said it hadn't come.

Again you call the Holy Spirit a liar.

I did not call the Holy Spirit a liar. I said that Mary's MOTHERLY ROLE ceased when Jesus started His ministry, in that He obeyed ONLY God. Everything Jesus did was as directed by God, through the Holy Spirit, and not by any human being. I did not say that Mary was not His mother.