HopeAlive14:


Your interpretation of this verse of Scripture is incorrect.

Indeed it is scripturally incorrect to deify Mary above the Messiah.

Matthew 12:47-50 (KJV)

v47 "Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

v48 "But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

v49 "And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

v50 "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Jesus made it clear that Mary had no preeminence among His followers or before God.

Syncan:
(A) ...they need no revelation but faith in what they learned. Truth is truth, however it is acquired, it doesn't need a revelation to be true. Faith comes by hearing the word of God, not by getting a revelation.

(B)...you won't have a problem believing that Mary is the mother of God, for she is the mother of God the son.

(A) Truth doesn't need a revelation to be true That must be blind faith and it is dangerous!!!

It is impossible to believe a thing is true when you do not get the revelation.

(B) Since she is the mother of God the son, again, I say let the prayer be rephrased. Hail Mary, "mother of God THE SON"

HopeAlive14:


(A) Truth doesn't need a revelation to be true That must be blind faith and it is dangerous!!!

It is impossible to believe a thing is true when you do not get the revelation.

(B) Since she is the mother of God the son, again, I say let the prayer be rephrased. Hail Mary, "mother of God THE SON"

Syncan:



hahahahaha, So she was the mother of God until she ceased to be the mother of God. What will I not hear? Just so you know Jesus kept calling her Woman, just to make sure you didn't miss the fact that she is the"woman" of Gen 3:15. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel".

Answer = Yes.

Question: Can the one who gave birth to someone cease to be the one who gave birth to him?

Barnabaseloka:
Question: Can you show me just ONE passage only from the Scriptures where Jesus acknowledged Mary as the mother or called her 'MOTHER' when He started His ministry on earth?

Barnabaseloka:

No, but people disown their mothers even today for several reasons, Jesus' case was a different one.

if Jesus created Mary, how come that she is still the mother as of today? Remember that Jesus was not born through the coming together of Mary and Joseph. He was implanted in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was in heaven with the Father before He (Jesus) agreed to enter the world through Mary. Mary submitted to God's will to carry Jesus in the womb and bring Him forth to the world.
Yes, physically Mary gave birth to Jesus and so she was considered as the mother. But is it not a height of irresponsibility from Jesus to have addressed Mary as 'WOMAN' during his Ministry? Can you do that to your earthly mother?

Before His ministry, He acknowledged Mary as the mother and obeyed His parents.
Luke 2:48-51
48. So when they saw Him, they were amazed, and His mother said to Him, Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.
49. And He said to them, Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business (the purpose for His coming on earth).
50. But they did not understand which He spoke to them.
51. Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was SUBJECT to (obeyed) them; but His mother kept all these things in her mind.

But here, Jesus never acknowledged Mary as the mother, nor obeyed her when He set out to achieve the purpose for coming on earth.
Mt.12:46-50
46. While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him.
47. Then one said to Him, Look Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.
48. But He answered and said to the one wno told Him, Who is My MOTHER and who are my brothers?
49. And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, Here are My MOTHER and My brothers.
50. For WHOEVER does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and MOTHER.
Are you wiser than Jesus who said that His Mother and brothers are those who do the will of the Father in heaven? Or did Jesus make a mistake by saying it?

I say it again that Mary was chosen by God to play the motherly role to Jesus till He began to carry out the mission why He came on earth.

Question: Can you show me just ONE passage only from the Scriptures where Jesus acknowledged Mary as the mother or called her 'MOTHER' when He started His ministry on earth?

HopeAlive14:


You are correct. There is NO passage from the Scriptures where Jesus acknowledged Mary as the mother or called her "MOTHER".

Syncan:
Yet his beloved apostle continued to say "the Mother of Jesus" through out scriptures, that tells you that his not calling her "Mother" isn't for lack of acknowledgement. You then need to now ask yourself what message He was trying to pass across. That is what I have already exposed to you.

Syncan:




It baffles me the extent people can tend not to understand or even change the meaning of words just to stick to an opinion. A mother in the simplest sense is one who bore and gave birth to. Simple! You disclaim later, or acclaim later, does not change this fact.
Certain claims you make to prove your point bothers on calling Jesus irresponsible and that is completely wrong. If only you read my submission, you would have seen why Jesus kept calling her Woman.

Question: Why did Jesus kept addressing His mother as Woman,was it a sign of non-acknowledgement of her?

Answer: No. It was never a sign of non-acknowledgement, for even when He addressed her as Woman in Jn.2:4 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come", He still went ahead and turned water into wine, despite His hour not yet come.
Again, even when Jesus addressed her as Woman in Jn.19:26 "Woman, behold thy son!", It was to hand her over to His most beloved apostle, as He (Jesus) was dying.
Saying that Jesus refused to acknowledge her as his mother, continues to go against scriptures. for the writer of the gospel of John is the beloved apostle John. This apostle continued to call Mary His Mother through out the gospel, showing you that Jesus was not denying his Mother.
Jesus the great teacher was only acknowledging His mother Mary as the Woman of Gen 3:15. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel". This is indeed out of honour and never out of any form of disrespect. And this he did through out his life, for scripture never recorded Him calling her Mother, neither before nor during His public ministry, He always called her Woman, an acknowledgement of the fulfillment of the prophecy in her.

HopeAlive14:



Mark 10:46-47

v46: "And they came to Jericho: and as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging.

v47: "And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou "Son of David", have mercy on me.

Question: Can David now be called the "father of God" because of his relationship to the man Christ Jesus?

Syncan:




It baffles me the extent people can tend not to understand or even change the meaning of words just to stick to an opinion. A mother in the simplest sense is one who bore and gave birth to. Simple! You disclaim later, or acclaim later, does not change this fact.
Certain claims you make to prove your point bothers on calling Jesus irresponsible and that is completely wrong. If only you read my submission, you would have seen why Jesus kept calling her Woman.

Question: Why did Jesus kept addressing His mother as Woman,was it a sign of non-acknowledgement of her?

Answer: No. It was never a sign of non-acknowledgement, for even when He addressed her as Woman in Jn.2:4 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come", He still went ahead and turned water into wine, despite His hour not yet come.
Again, even when Jesus addressed her as Woman in Jn.19:26 "Woman, behold thy son!", It was to hand her over to His most beloved apostle, as He (Jesus) was dying.
Saying that Jesus refused to acknowledge her as his mother, continues to go against scriptures. for the writer of the gospel of John is the beloved apostle John. This apostle continued to call Mary His Mother through out the gospel, showing you that Jesus was not denying his Mother.
Jesus the great teacher was only acknowledging His mother Mary as the Woman of Gen 3:15. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel". This is indeed out of honour and never out of any form of disrespect. And this he did through out his life, for scripture never recorded Him calling her Mother, neither before nor during His public ministry, He always called her Woman, an acknowledgement of the fulfillment of the prophecy in her.

Barnabaseloka:
To people, Jesus was considered as son of David b/c Jesus came from His lineage. To people, Mary was considered as the mother b/c she gave birth to Him. But the truth is that both Mary and David are considered by Jesus as His children b/c Jesus is the Creator and they were the created.

HopeAlive14:


And this is a Scriptural truth that so many people are not willing to accept!

Syncan:


Calling it incorrect without pointing out the error does not make it incorrect.

No one is deifying Mary. However,"all generations shall call her blessed". One does not deny her the privilege God has been pleased to grant her. If God decided to leave heaven and dwell in her womb, why should you be the one afraid to acknowledge it. Take a look at the passage you quoted and tell me who did the will of the father more than the one who declared " I am the handmaid of the Lord, be it done to me according to thy will". Lk 1:38. If you want to know what influence she wields over her son, all you need to do is read Jn 2:1-12, where she made Jesus perform his first miracle, even when His "hour has not yet come".

HopeAlive14:



Mark 10:46-47

v46: "And they came to Jericho: and as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging.

v47: "And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou "Son of David", have mercy on me.

Question: Can David now be called the "father of God" because of his relationship to the man Christ Jesus?

dolphinheart:
Gen 3:16. Gods talks to a woman, or "the woman" of Gen 3:15 who is she?

On seed: who is/are the serpents seed. Are they his biological children?

Add the answers to the concept of the "woman" in verse 15 being Mary and let's see how confusing things get.

What is trinity?

segbe88:


For those who believe Jesus is God.

God is same yesterday, today and forever. His ways never changes, he remains the same. Whatever and whoever he chooses, is His decision.

First God cannot be born my a sinful man. We inherit original sin from birth until our baptism. God did not inherit original sin from birth like us, for this purpose He made His Mother pure and and sinless so that He can dwell in Her.

Was Jesus was not always man, He became man, when he was born. But Jesus was always God, He had already existed before time began.

You cannot deny Mary being the Mother of God and accept Jesus as always being God. Unless you have a different meaning of mother.

This is an article of faith.

Barnabaseloka:

Can you see how misguiding your post is? I said that Jesus told those that were there with Him that His mother and brothers and sisiters are those that DO the WILL of the Father in heaven. Is this passage not clear enough to you? He did not say that His mother was the one that gave birth to Him.

Yes, anyone that gives birth to one is considered the mother. But in the case of Jesus, His birth was foreplanned by the Father and Him (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. Jesus chose to come through Mary to the world. B/c of this, PEOPLE considered Mary as the mother and Joseph as the father. But Jesus did not consider Mary as the mother or Joseph as the father when time came for Him to fulfil His mission on earth.
Luke 3:23 When Jesus began His work, He was 30 years old. He was the Son 'SO PEOPLE THOUGHT' of Joseph who was the son of Heli.

Jesus did not call her 'woman' in reference to what you quoted in Genesis. When Jesus was under the parents' tutelage, He must have called Mary 'mother' and Joseph 'father' to show that they were His parents and that He did not fall from the sky. But when He started His ministry, He distanced Himself from them b/c He came for a purpose. He has existed before His earthly birth, not like other humans that had never existed before they were born.

Therefore Jesus calling Mary 'woman' was not a mistake, nor was He making any reference to Genesis. Afterall the name of the woman referred to was Mary and the seed was Jesus. The passage talked about the redemptive work that Jesus would do on earth, and liberate people from the authority of satan. He (Jesus) was not foolish or insensible to have called Mary 'woman' during His ministry for He created her.

Question: Can you refer to your earthly mother as 'woman' and not 'mother' when trying to get her attention or when speaking to her?

Syncan:


I had earlier handled the issue of Jesus saying those who did the will of the father are his mothers, brothers....Jesus as a great teacher he is, was teaching about the he used to occassion to teach about the covenantal family of God. Mary is foremost among those who "hears the word of God and keep it". She heard the will of God and declared "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word". Indeed She is doubly blessed for she did not only bear and concieve the redeemer luke 1:42 "blessed are you among women", she also heared the word of God, believed, kept it in her heart and it was fulfilled unto her, lk 1:45 "and blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord".

I am done with unfounded claims. Please support the bold with scripture. Motherhood is not a matter of consideration, If you bear someone in your womb and give birth to the person, you are the person's mother. It doesn't matter if the person is God,human, para-human or beast .

Barnabaseloka:

i never said that Mary did not give birth to Jesus, thus was the mother, but this is according to the thought of humans. This is b/c anyone that gives birth to you is considered as your mother. During Jesus childhood, what do you think that He called Mary and Joseph- woman and man? Being under their care He should have called Mary 'mother' and Joseph 'father' to show that they were His parents as other children call their parents (though the childhood life of Jesus was not recorded in the Scriptures).

Remember that Jesus did not merely exist on earth as other humans. He came for a purpose. Now when the time to begin the work of the Father came, He separated Himself from Mary and Joseph and only listened to and obeyed God, not the earthly parents anymore. He never acknowleged Mary as His mother when He started His work to fulfil His mission on earth. It is only humans that still call Mary His mother. But to Jesus, Mary has finished the work assigned to her by God on His tutelage or guidance as the mother. This is why He (Jesus) never called Mary 'mother' but 'woman' during His Ministry.

This is very easy to understand but you make it difficult for yourself, even when the truth stares you in the face!

segbe88:


For those who believe Jesus is God.

God is same yesterday, today and forever. His ways never changes, he remains the same. Whatever and whoever he chooses, is His decision.

First God cannot be born my a sinful man. We inherit original sin from birth until our baptism. God did not inherit original sin from birth like us, for this purpose He made His Mother pure and and sinless so that He can dwell in Her.

Was Jesus was not always man, He became man, when he was born. But Jesus was always God, He had already existed before time began.

You cannot deny Mary being the Mother of God and accept Jesus as always being God. Unless you have a different meaning of mother.

This is an article of faith.

Barnabaseloka:

Mary did not have any wield or influence on Jesus during His ministry.
John2:3-5
3. And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, they have no wine.
4. Jesus said to her, Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.
5. His mother said to the servants, Whatever He says to you, do it.

Mary came to inform Jesus about the finished wine, knowing that Jesus could perform a miracle there. She wanted to use the 'motherly' role to make Jesus obey her during His ministry, but it never happened. Jesus told her that she should look for the solution to the problem herself (what does your concern have to do with me?). This was b/c it was not time for Him to manifest before people.

Mary, knowing that jesus would not listen to her went to the servants. She told them that whatever He (Jesus) not she (Mary) told them to do that they should obey Him. Then Jesus seeing that she had directed people to Him, not that she wanted to use the power as the mother to make Him do it, directed the servants on what to do.

It was of Jesus' own will or choice to perform the miracle there, not that Mary influenced Him. If He had wanted not to do such, nothing would have happened.
This is how we are to direct people to Jesus for help in time of need, and not to Mary for He is able to save us at all times.

Syncan:


Again you add your own thoughts to scriptures, Imagine the bold, telling Jesus what He should do. If you cannot show me where Jesus called Mary mother in his childhood, then:

1.There is a possibility that He called her Woman , all his life, for Mary was not even surprised when he called her so at the wedding feast. Why could this be...Gen 3:15 comes to mind.

2. There is a possibility that he calls her mother at other times, both as a child and as an adult, but these places where He called her woman, were recorded for a reason...Gen 3:15 comes to mind.

3. The claim that he fails to acknowledge her as His mother during his public ministry, is wrong, because just as following them home is acknowledgement from a growing infant son, handing her over to His most beloved apostle is acknowledgement from a dying adult son.

The truth is bare for all to see.

segbe88:
(1) We inherit original sin from birth... for this purpose He made His Mother pure and sinless...

(2) Jesus was not always man, He became man, when he was born...But Jesus was always God, He had already existed before time began.

(3) You cannot deny Mary being the Mother of God and accept Jesus as always being God..

This is an article of faith.

Syncan:


Do you even read what you post? You said: "Mary knew Jesus was going to perform a miracle", Yet, "it was not time for Jesus to manifest his public ministry". How did she know he was going to perform a miracle, when it wasn't yet time for him? And if she knew He was going to do it because she asked, don't you just marvel at her influence. Take time to read your posts, don't rush to say anything instead of changing your opinion.

Mary came to Jesus for a solution, Mary told the servants that Jesus will provide a solution, all these irrespective of the fact that Jesus said His time has not yet come. Jesus performed that miracle, His first public miracle, as Mary wanted, even before His time, hence for his mother, He started His Public ministry earlier than he would have. Isn't that a high enough acknowledgement for you?

Barnabaseloka:

Rom 3:23 For ALL (no exception) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
2Corinth:5:17 Therefore if ANYONE is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have passed away, behold all things have become new.
It is ony in Christ Jesus that one becomes a new being (born again). Aside being in Christ, such a person is still under the power of sin and remains a sinner.

Mary believed in Jesus, and even received the Holy Spirit. That made her to be a child of God and freed her from the power of sin. At the point of believing in Jesus as her Lord and Saviour, she was made a new creation, not b/c she was about to give birth to Jesus.

HopeAlive14:

God bless you, brother. Any teaching that Mary was "pure and sinless" is unscriptural

Scholar8200:
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. (Mary was neither needed nor mentioned here). When the Word was to be made flesh, God "... sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"(Galatians 4:4) Just as Eve was made of Adam 1Corinth 11:12
For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

( Note that it did not say made by a woman) hence God the Holy Ghost did the making (incarnation) and Mary was the virgin (out of many) chosen. Just as we dont exalt Mary whose action was to be a memorial wherever the gospel was preached, we need not exalt she who was used(more like a tool or channel) to accomplish a Divine purpose!
Isaiah 10:15
15 Shall the ax boast itself against him who chops with it? Or shall the saw magnify itself against him who wields it back and forth? As if a rod should wield those who lift it up, or as if a staff should lift itself up as if it were not wood [but a man of God]!


It is wrong to exalt the tool above He who wields it. Mary (thankfully) didnt, we shouldnt.