GooseBaba:


Again, if i chose to rebel against god.. Who created rebellion... Me or your god..? What was his purpose of creating rebellion...?

DrLazDevitan:

''B'' should not descend from ''A'',the only exception should be there is something of A inside B.

It is your senses of genuity and mindliness that inculcate your knowings with corruption.Man is a psychological being and by intoto can never be stable.Where one diverisifies on equating humanness with moral ethicalities of corruption,then one is supposing that man had freewill has a gift and not a thing of his own measure.Inotherwords man was never perfect nor imperfect-man was/is humanness!

malvisguy212:
were did God create rebellion? Is a rebellion now a 'thing' ? Smh

johnydon22:


Ok so god created adam perfect, and then perfect adam made an imperfect decision and became imperfect. .

How did perfect Adam make imperfect decision. . .?

malvisguy212:
how do you worship God without freewill?man was created in His image, that why Jesus say "ye are god" but the choice man make has nothing to do with God, it's between Good and evil. The bible say satan was created perfect and with the finest materials but why did satan rebel against God?


Notice the "I WILL" in this verse, does this not proved that everyone is responsible for his freewill(action)?

malvisguy212:
were did God create rebellion? Is a rebellion now a 'thing' ? Smh

johnydon22:


You don't want to tell me what i want to know. .

How man that is created upright act against his upright nature and did something that is not upright?

Scholar8200:

He yielded to temptation!

Besides, our use of the word perfect here does not mean Adam had all the Divine attributes in the same degree as God at creation: on the contrary, it was a starting point experience;
a careful reading through the mysteries in the epistles show that God still had further and greater plans for the man He had created before the latter fell.

Adam was on a kind of probationary stage (at the time he fell) else the tree of life and its consequence wont have been an issue after the fall. However, the statement made by God showed He still had greater and higher plans for Adam.

malvisguy212:
how do you worship God without freewill?man was created in His image, that why Jesus say "ye are god" but the choice man make has nothing to do with God, it's between Good and evil. The bible say satan was created perfect and with the finest materials but why did satan rebel against God?
Isaiah 14:12–15
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart,
I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the
clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.

Notice the "I WILL" in this verse, does this not proved that everyone is responsible for his freewill(action)?

johnydon22:


Nope rebellion is not a thing its an action. . . so who gave him the ability to rebel?

malvisguy212:
read my second post, what do you understand by the word "corrupt"? Genesis 6:11-12 say human corrupt his OWN way.To "corrupt" means to make morally depraved. It means to pervert what is good and upright. It means to make unclean what was once clean. It
means to spoil what was once good and unspoiled. The word corrupt always implies a former state that was unspoiled, clean, good, or upright. It is never used to speak of the original created nature of man. It speaks of what man has become because of spoiling or perverting the nature with which he was created.

DrLazDevitan:


Free is man's own pride.Freewill has been inviolable,inalienable,transhistorical,immutable,non-transmutable,non-inheritable and does not has a owner or giver of it.

You can't make a car and fuel that car to drive itself at its own speed.Freewill is not like that.Freewill does not pre-occupy itself with any divine demiurge.Freewill is beyond or transcend ethical judgement.

malvisguy212:
God gave you freewill to chose from and you chose to rebel against Him.

Satan is involved in your deception.

malvisguy212:
if that's your view on man being imperfect, good for you. Did your god created man imperfect?

malvisguy212:
yes, you are right, satan is involved.

malvisguy212:
yes, you are right, satan is involved.

johnydon22:



Great, that man was able to corrupt his own way shows that man had the ability to corrupt and this is imperfect.

So how did perfect man have the ability to corrupt (imperfection)?

johnydon22:


It is just two options. . . Its either something is perfect or its not.


Again, How did a perfect created Adam make an imperfect decision which is yielding to temptation..?

GooseBaba:

All hail the great satan... The biblical fall guy..

DrLazDevitan:


This is not a matter of satan.Your lack of comprehension of what freewill is makes this place a mess site.

malvisguy212:
it's your choice.

malvisguy212:
very Good, you live God out of this.

Alright, you reject God, were did it start? By your own idea that God does not exist? As long as you cannot disprove his existence,

it mean you reject God by your own invention.

johnydon22:


Lol. . How could there be freewill when he already know what i would choose and cannot be wrong. . If you say he doesn't know what i would do then he is not omniscient, if he is omniscient then how could they be freewill..


Again how did perfect satan turn imperfect and then influence perfect man to turn imperfect too . . . You see its a chain of imperfection of which all came out from one source!!

Scholar8200:
[
Adam's perfection was not a built-in ability like the beating of the heart! God is a Spirit and Adam's spiritual progress was not going to be achieved in an instant (that will be unlike God's nature)

Besides, our use of the word perfect here does not mean Adam had all the Divine attributes in the same degree as God at creation: on the contrary, it was a starting point experience;( The incorruptible body Christ had after resurrection was not the same body Adam had else what would have been the issue with the tree of life after the fall?)

A careful reading through the mysteries in the gospels & epistles show that God still had further and greater plans for the man He had created before the latter fell.
Adam was on a kind of probationary stage (at the time he fell) else the tree of life and its consequence wont have been an issue after the fall. Why? Because God, in the Nature of Who HE is, never forces us into anything. However, the statement made by God showed He still had greater and higher plans for Adam.

Meaning Adam was a living soul, made a partaker of God's nature (to a certain degree) but was not without an intellect and will. Again,what would have been the need of a command to abstain from the tree if Adam already had the fullness of the Divine nature in perfection it being no choice of his?

The command given by God already shows that it was going to be a probationary period for the man and his part in God (perfection included) would be in stages as his cooperation and willingness will determine.
(thread is for a brother in need!)

malvisguy212:
if God already chose you to fall, then why did he say why beware? (1 Peter 5:.

.

Landed. . . If he never knew what i would do before i do them then he is not omniscient. . . then that is settled..

johnydon22:


What was it then. . . Its a very simple case scenario and you keep copying and pasting your posts.

Was Adam perfect?

If yes, then how come a perfect being made an imperfect decision or better put had the ability to be imperfect, this shows it was imperfect fro the on set.

If No, same question. .how could imperfect adam come out from perfect god... U can't eat your cake and have it

Scholar8200:


See it this way, were the other creatures perfect?

The attribution of perfection to Adam is because:
1. he was more than flesh and blood;
2. he had a spirit which other creatures dont have;
3 his perfection was the result of his union with God, by his (Adam's) spirit;
4 the command by God (concerning avoiding a tree) shows that Adam's perfection was not holistic (in other words the union with God was not at once exhaustive; there were limits) and though God had that in mind, He wont do it without Adam's willing cooperation.


Adam's perfection was not a built-in ability like the beating of the heart! God is a Spirit and Adam's spiritual progress was not going to be achieved in an instant (that will be unlike God's nature)



Meaning Adam was a living soul, made a partaker of God's nature (to a certain degree) but was not without an intellect and will. Again,what would have been the need of a command to abstain from the tree if Adam already had the fullness of the Divine nature in perfection it being no choice of his?

The command given by God already shows that it was going to be a probationary period for the man and his part in God (perfection included) would be in stages as his cooperation and willingness will determine.
(thread is for a brother in need!)

johnydon22:


Same thing again **face palm**

Perfection means total excellence. .

since adam was not excellent (therefore fell) means ada was not perfect...

again, How did an alleged perfect god create something imperfect?

Scholar8200:


The attribution of perfection (a Divine attribute) to Adam is because:
1. he was more than flesh and blood;
2. he had a spirit which other creatures dont have;
3 his perfection was the result of his union with God, by his (Adam's) spirit;
4[b]the command by God (concerning avoiding a tree) shows that Adam's perfection was not holistic (in other words the union with God was not at once exhaustive; there were limits) and though God had that in mind, He wont do it without Adam's willing cooperation.
[/b] Bear in mind that this perfection had its source from his union with God which was to be limited at the initial stages

5[b]Corollary therefore is that God set those limits because it will be against the Divine Nature to forge an exhaustive union at once sans the cooperation of Adam's will.[/b]

johnydon22:
there is nothing like limited perfection. .Perfection is perfection, imperfection is imperfection.

Now there is a define perfection. . . Hahahahahahahahaha...

we are talking Adam as an entity if he is perfect not his mythological features like what you listed above..

He had the ability to make wrong(imperfect) decisions therefore had an imperfect trait, adam aint perfect then.

How did a perfect god create a perfect adam that became imperfect... ?

Scholar8200:


8 For the Sadducees say that there is ..., neither angel, nor spirit:

Is this also your belief?