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The Weah96 Challenge. - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by PastorAIO: 1:01pm On Aug 11, 2015
Weah96:


The OP has one idea that he calls God. I'm trying to understand which connotation of the word he's referring to.

Asking someone whether God exists if like asking whether Car exists. Which car? Automobile, locomotive box cars, or the car that Tom uses to chase Jerry in the cartoons? Some cars are real, others are fake.

e squeeze mi! Perhaps I could help.

I think that maybe we should make a distinction between God, the office, and God, the personality.

An office may bear certain functions that can be fulfilled by various persons. Many people may be president of US, but there is only one presidency of US.

The OP, maybe, I don't know, may be asking if there is such an office as God that presumably is responsibly for such functions as creating and maintaining the universe. The question of who fills this office, whether amadioha, sango or Jehovah is not pertinent right now.

Weah96 may believe that such an office as 'God' exists but disbelieve that it is filled by any such beings as Jehovah, Allah etc.

Abeg, Am I right?

4 Likes

Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by johnydon22(m): 1:14pm On Aug 11, 2015
Depending one what one refers to as GOD...If you refer to (the universe: Everything in existence and ever was) nature with the noun God, then that is beautifully fine and nobody will dispute that pantheistic notion.

But when one brings up the concept of Personal Gods that is not nature and in most claims seats outside nature (universe) itself, with human characteristics, emotions and all.. (one can always ask how that could be..lol..)

So the Op should make it clear: God in this context, is it a form of pantheistic God or a personal God?

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:15pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:


Interjecting, I Say to you sir that his question is very very reasonable.

The streets of history are littered with dead and decayed corpses of gods from the beginning of human civilization.
Millions of gods, once considered real, immortal and self-evident, are now relegated to the realms of myth and fairy tales.
Today's God is tomorrow's myth.

So, the op's question should have been About THE IDEA OF GOD, rather about the existence of god.

If you believe in one god myth, then You probably don't believe in other god myths.

Therefore, at any given time, a monotheistic person has millions of gods that he/she does not believe to exist.

Everyone is an atheist to some degree.

how many times do I need to express myself to make you understand me?

Let me employ the vegetarian theory again.

When a vegetarian is asked reason why he refused to eat meat, he doesnt ask in reply which particular meat because as a vegetarian, he does not eat ALL meat. People from Ode-Aye do not eat chicken. People from Odemili do not eat snake. This does not mean they are vegetarian until they forbid eating ALL meat.

Atheism is not just about Jehovah and Allah but all that is called God. The OP asked weah96 while he thinks God does not exist. He is not asking why a particular God does not exist. So in essence, he needs to tell us why he doesnt believe in God. We will call on him when we need answer to why he choose not to believe in Jehovah.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:20pm On Aug 11, 2015
johnydon22:
Depending one what one refers to as GOD...If you refer to (the universe: Everything in existence and ever was) nature with the noun God, then that is beautifully fine and nobody will dispute that pantheistic notion.

But when one brings up the concept of Personal Gods that is not nature and in most claims seats outside nature (universe) itself, with human characteristics, emotions and all.. (one can always ask how that could be..lol..)

So the Op should make it clear: God in this context, is it a form of pantheistic God or a personal God?

I got fine link buttressing this point of yours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_becomes_the_Universe
https://guyus./my-pantheistic-views/why-i-view-the-universe-as-god/

What most people call God are natural entities that exist here and there. Do you wonder why some culture worship cow and snakes? Does calling them God makes them non-existing?

But the question I ask lot, and I will ask you. Do you believe in pantheist God? Do you believe in Gaia exist. Do you believe the God exist?

If yes, do you still hold that you are an atheist?
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by plaetton: 1:27pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:


how many times do I need to express myself to make you understand me?

Let me employ the vegetarian theory again.

When a vegetarian is asked reason why he refused to eat meat, he doesnt ask in reply which particular meat because as a vegetarian, he does not eat ALL meat. People from Ode-Aye do not eat chicken. People from Odemili do not eat snake. This does not mean they are vegetarian until they forbid eating ALL meat.

Atheism is not just about Jehovah and Allah but all that is called God. The OP asked weah96 while he thinks God does not exist. He is not asking why a particular God does not exist. So in essence, he needs to tell us why he doesnt believe in God. We will call on him when we need answer to why he choose not to believe in Jehovah.
And let me remind YOU sir, that meat is REAL.
No one has doubts about the existence of meat, whether one is vegetarian or not.

How about the Unicorn example?
Prove to us why you don't believe in the existence of Unicorns.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:32pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:


Repeating once again, that it is the person who makes a proposition that is expected to show evidence or proof to the person who doubts.

I don't believe in the existence of god for the very same reasons that I don't believe in Unicorns.
Aside from fairy tales, it has never been seen, photographed, or the skeletons ever unearthed.

Ra has been seen, photographed and the skeleton unearth. Do you disbelieve in the existence of Ra?

Again, were you not the one that said the Sun worth been revered?

As a pantheistic atheist, do you care about of the word God or that entity that is refered to as God? Is the universe not existing because it is called God in pantheism? Are the stars not existing because they are astrolatry deities?
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by johnydon22(m): 1:36pm On Aug 11, 2015
[code][/code]
FOLYKAZE:


I got fine link buttressing this point of yours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_becomes_the_Universe
https://guyus./my-pantheistic-views/why-i-view-the-universe-as-god/

What most people call God are natural entities that exist here and there. Do you wonder why some culture worship cow and snakes? Does calling them God makes them non-existing?
You are blatantly mistaking the idea of a personal God with that of deifying an object, animal or human... Many people deify Cows, snakes i just refer to them as Cows and snakes and thats all....i too regard my mother and girl friend as God...smiley

But the question I ask lot, and I will ask you. Do you believe in pantheist God? Do you believe in Gaia exist. Do you believe the God exist?
The idea of a pantheistic God is not seperate but a unifying notion depicting everything in entirety (the whole universe)...So the word God is only used to refer the universe, i do not need to have belief that the universe exists same way i don't need belief to know my mother exist or girl friend...

Gaia is a goddess whose name man adopted to refer the earth with just like Mars was the god of war now used to name a planet... In such personal God concepts, i totally disbelief smiley

If yes, do you still hold that you are an atheist?
Atheism is disbelief in deities (i do not need belief to know my mother, so such anthropomorphic usage does not hold sway after all we both know the noun God is also used to refer to the gallery of a theater)
..
So very much YES...i am an atheist ..

1 Like 1 Share

Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by DeepSight(m): 1:37pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:

Interjecting, I Say to you sir that his question is very very reasonable.
The streets of history are littered with dead and decayed corpses of gods from the beginning of human civilization.
Millions of gods, once considered real, immortal and self-evident, are now relegated to the realms of myth and fairy tales.
Today's God is tomorrow's myth.
So, the op's question should have been About THE IDEA OF GOD, rather about the existence of god.
If you believe in one god myth, then You probably don't believe in other god myths.
Therefore, at any given time, a monotheistic person has millions of gods that he/she does not believe to exist.
Everyone is an atheist to some degree.

Are there any atheists that believe in the existence (in the past, present or future) of any type of God or gods whatsoever?
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:40pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:

And let me remind YOU sir, that meat is REAL.
No one has doubts about the existence of meat, whether one is vegetarian or not.

How about the Unicorn example?
Prove to us why you don't believe in the existence of Unicorns.

The question for vegetarian is not about if meat exist or not. Vegetarians do not eat meat so the question should be why they do not eat meat and not if meat exist or not. I am pointing reason why they abstain eating totality of that which is called meat and not just pork.

Atheism is disbelieve in God and not just a particular God. This mean an atheist suppose to disbelieve in ALL forms of God and not just that of christians or muslims.

That Unicorn exist is not an ish. You can call it God if you like or tend to worship it. There are lot of personality cults that worship human as God. These human remains God as to those that believe in it and it exist.

Unless you want to tell us atheism is disbelieve in only Jehovah and not all God.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by plaetton: 1:41pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:


I got fine link buttressing this point of yours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_becomes_the_Universe
https://guyus./my-pantheistic-views/why-i-view-the-universe-as-god/

What most people call God are natural entities that exist here and there. Do you wonder why some culture worship cow and snakes? Does calling them God makes them non-existing?

But the question I ask lot, and I will ask you. Do you believe in pantheist God? Do you believe in Gaia exist. Do you believe the God exist?

If yes, do you still hold that you are an atheist?
It's funny how people are selective they are in describing god when the question of existence arises.

I once opened a thread about microscopic germs, and how they make 90% of our body cells, how they are social organisms, how they control our bodies, our brains and influence our freewill.
I then referred to them as the gods within, and urged every to endeavor to be harmoniously atuned to the gods within for a healthy andn peaceful life.

As expected, non of our resident goddists on Nairaland would tolerate this.
They ranted and mocked my posts, all the while ignoring the scientific evidence backing it up.

Same peeps here would come and asks atheists to show why we don't believe in the existence of god, the invisible one that is said to supposedly exist out of the universe and time.

Lol.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by dalaman: 1:43pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:


I got fine link buttressing this point of yours. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_becomes_the_Universe
https://guyus./my-pantheistic-views/why-i-view-the-universe-as-god/

What most people call God are natural entities that exist here and there. Do you wonder why some culture worship cow and snakes? Does calling them God makes them non-existing?

But the question I ask lot, and I will ask you. Do you believe in pantheist God? Do you believe in Gaia exist. Do you believe the God exist?

If yes, do you still hold that you are an atheist?

The same question can be asked of you. Just the other time you said you are an atheist. Why do you hold that you are an atheist?
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:44pm On Aug 11, 2015
DeepSight:


Are there any atheists that believe in the existence (in the past, present or future) of any type of God or gods whatsoever?

The fallacy of Stephen Roberts and lots of atheists who employ the "we are all atheist" quote for argument
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:46pm On Aug 11, 2015
dalaman:


The same question can be asked of you. Just the other time you said you are an atheist. Why do you hold that you are an atheist?

atheist that embrace spirituality.

Copy the difference.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by plaetton: 1:46pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:


The question for vegetarian is not about if meat exist or not. Vegetarians do not eat meat so the question should be why they do not eat meat and not if meat exist or not. I am pointing reason why they abstain eating totality of that which is called meat and not just pork.

Atheism is disbelieve in God and not just a particular God. This mean an atheist suppose to disbelieve in ALL forms of God and not just that of christians or muslims.

That Unicorn exist is not an ish. You can call it God if you like or tend to worship it. There are lot of personality cults that worship human as God. These human remains God as to those that believe in it and it exist.

Unless you want to tell us atheism is disbelieve in only Jehovah and not all God.
Maybe You don't understand the op's question?

The op is not asking why Weah96 is not worshiping god.

So your vegetarian analogy is wrong.
Vegetarianism is a clear personal choice.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by plaetton: 1:50pm On Aug 11, 2015
DeepSight:


Are there any atheists that believe in the existence (in the past, present or future) of any type of God or gods whatsoever?

Again, that would depend on what is or what was assumed to be god.

If for example, giants were worshipped as gods, then surely, gods existed.

If volcanoes were worshipped as gods, then surely, gods existed.

2 Likes

Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by dalaman: 1:51pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:


atheist that embrace spirituality.

Copy the difference.

No difference. According to you an atheist doesn't believe in all God concepts. And you say you are one. Isn't that the height of all confusion. Spirituality has nothing to do with God. You can be spiritual but lack any belief in a God or Gods.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:55pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:

It's funny how people are selective they are in describing god when the question of existence arises.

I once opened a thread about microscopic germs, and how they make 90% of our body cells, how they are social organisms, how they control our bodies, our brains and influence our freewill.
I then referred to them as the gods within, and urged every to endeavor to be harmoniously atuned to the gods within for a healthy andn peaceful life.

As expected, non of our resident goddists on Nairaland would tolerate this.
They ranted and mocked my posts, all the while ignoring the scientific evidence backing it up.

Same peeps here would come and asks atheists to show why we don't believe in the existence of god, the invisible one that is said to supposedly exist out of the universe and time.

Lol.

I believe the sun is God and worthy of my worship.

I am a spiritual atheist
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:57pm On Aug 11, 2015
dalaman:


No difference. According to you an atheist doesn't believe in all God concepts. And you say you are one. Isn't that the height of all confusion. Spirituality has nothing to do with God. You can be spiritual but lack any belief in a God or Gods.

Name that spiritual society that is devoured of God
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by TheDauraMallam: 1:57pm On Aug 11, 2015
This is getting intresting.

*Grabs my absinthe bottle*
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by johnydon22(m): 1:57pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:

Unless you want to tell us atheism is disbelieve in only Jehovah and not all God.
Atheism is the disbelief in the THEISTIC deity concept... Its time we now adopt the real words since you always like confusing the usage of the word God.

so lets break it down simply...

THEISM means: The belief in a personal creator deity who interacts and dabbles into human affairs, governance and relationship.

aTHEISM: I don't believe that crap above

1 Like 1 Share

Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 2:00pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:

Maybe You don't understand the op's question?

The op is not asking why Weah96 is not worshiping god.

So your vegetarian analogy is wrong.
Vegetarianism is a clear personal choice.




The question is simple. Why do you think God does not exist?

I am hitting weah96 because he left the question and throws in Jehovah and Allah.

The christians believe in Jehovah but do not believe in Allah. While both are Gods, and what he is been asked, he nneds to tell us why he disbelieve in God and not just Allah
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by plaetton: 2:06pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:


I believe the sun is God and worthy of my worship.

I am a spiritual atheist

I believe the sun is the most Visible god there is our celestial neighborhood.

I once opened a thread urging everyone to hail the Sun, from whence comes light and Life.

Obviously, no one is going to ask to prove that the Sun is God, because they know I would prove it.

We ignore the obvious in favour of the mysterious.

It is simply mental indolence.
For, example, with the obvious, we are tasked to study it in greater detail.
But with the mysterious, we just make it as we go.
This is why it is much easier to worship an invisible mystery than it is to pay proper homage to our Sun.

In the same vein, it is much easier to fight the invisible devil than it is to confront our real problems.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 2:08pm On Aug 11, 2015
johnydon22:
[code][/code]You are blatantly mistaking the idea of a personal God with that of deifying an object, animal or human... Many people deify Cows, snakes i just refer to them as Cows and snakes and thats all....i too regard my mother and girl friend as God...smiley

A deified God is already personified.

There is no God but that thing that is called God which exist. Therefore God exxist.

johnydon22:
The idea of a pantheistic God is not seperate but a unifying notion depicting everything in entirety (the whole universe)...So the word God is only used to refer the universe, i do not need to have belief that the universe exists same way i don't need belief to know my mother exist or girl friend...

God is not a particualr entity but tag given to entities. That entity is God and exist.

johnydon22:
Gaia is a goddess whose name man adopted to refer the earth with just like Mars was the god of war now used to name a planet... In such personal God concepts, i totally disbelief smiley

This is not just about calling the name or tagging it but attributing any form of worship, reverence and prayer to it. Therefore it is remains God rather than earth.

johnydon22:
Atheism is disbelief in deities (i do not need belief to know my mother, so such anthropomorphic usage does not hold sway after all we both know the noun God is also used to refer to the gallery of a theater)
..

Are humans not deities?

Are humans not worshipped or seen as divine entity?

johnydon22:
So very much YES...i am an atheist ..

Atheist believes in God.


I don die
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by dalaman: 2:15pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:


Name that spiritual society that is devoured of God


Buddhism is an spirituality that lacks a God figure. You do not need to believe in God to be spiritual. Many people do not believe in any God idea but are spiritual. You calling your self an atheist is ridiculous. Why are you an atheist ? Remember according to you an atheist must disbelieve in all Gods.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 2:20pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:


I believe the sun is the most Visible god there is our celestial neighborhood.

I once opened a thread urging everyone to hail the Sun, from whence comes light and Life.

Obviously, no one is going to ask to prove that the Sun is God, because they know I would prove it.

We ignore the obvious in favour of the mysterious.

It is simply mental indolence.
For, example, with the obvious, we are tasked to study it in greater detail.
But with the mysterious, we just make it as we go.
This is why it is much easier to worship an invisible mystery than it is to pay proper homage to our Sun.

In the same vein, it is much easier to fight the invisible devil than it is to confront our real problems.

You have a point. An Ifa priest once told me those that preach fear have more followership than those that preach love and englightment. Human are configured to bow to fear of the unknown in particular. In other sense, the unknown too is God.

The bolden, I only have a problem with you when you agree that sun is a visible god that should be revered and still go round shouting others who choose to worship a God down, calling them names.

How could you believe in Ra and disbelieve in Jehovah? Are they not the same God?

You know what, Jehovah could exist as an idea which only warrant acceptance.

I dont think you are an atheist like johnydon22, dalaman and weah96, you are not just too good with some concept and idea of God. Atheism negates all god idea but you are here believing Ra should be worship because it is god. I think w need to look beyond idea and concept. All these God were just expression of ancient men who triess to explain the natural world
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 2:23pm On Aug 11, 2015
dalaman:


Buddhism is an spirituality that lacks a God figure. You do not need to believe in God to be spiritual. Many people do not believe in any God idea but are spiritual. You calling your self an atheist is ridiculous. Why are you an atheist ? Remember according to you an atheist must disbelieve in all Gods.

Buddhism has not God?

Who do they pray to?

Who are the devas?

Why is there temple made for them?

Why do they go on pilgrimage?

Abeg pack well. You can check the lists of buddhist devas on the internet. I cant waste time trashing you on this.

And for your othr question, I have answered you on other thred. No waste my time abeg
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 2:27pm On Aug 11, 2015
johnydon22:
Atheism is the disbelief in the THEISTIC deity concept... Its time we now adopt the real words since you always like confusing the usage of the word God.

so lets break it down simply...

THEISM means: The belief in a personal creator deity who interacts and dabbles into human affairs, governance and relationship.

aTHEISM: I don't believe that crap above

Do I need to list out the type of theism?

And how is pantheist God not a personal one?
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by DeepSight(m): 2:30pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:


Again, that would depend on what is or what was assumed to be god.

If for example, giants were worshipped as gods, then surely, gods existed.

If volcanoes were worshipped as gods, then surely, gods existed.

No: this is still a very bad answer to the question.

The question is not whether some people worshipped giants or volcanoes as gods. If some people did so: then those people are certain not atheists, for no atheist believes in the existence of any god much less worship same.

In your example, the atheist would regard those objects as a giant and as a volcano - and would not regard either as a god.

Therefore you have actually turned the question on its head; for rather than answering the very simple question as to whether there are any atheists that believe in the existence of gods, you have provided examples of theists that do!

An odd thing to do, considering the very definition of the word "theist" as one who so believes in god(s)?

I hope you can see how terribly up-side-down your reasoning is?

So please attempt the question again - are their any atheists who believe in the existence of God or gods?

Simple.
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by dalaman: 2:35pm On Aug 11, 2015
FOLYKAZE:


Buddhism has not God?

Who do they pray to?

Who are the devas?

Why is there temple made for them?

Why do they go on pilgrimage?

Abeg pack well. You can check the lists of buddhist devas on the internet. I cant waste time trashing you on this.

And for your othr question, I have answered you on other thred. No waste my time abeg

Deva in Buddhism is not a God. From wikipedia.

A deva (देव Sanskrit and Pāli) in Buddhism is one of many different types of non-human beings who share the characteristics of being more powerful, longer-lived, and, in general, much happier than humans, although none of them are worthy of worship.

If you read further you will see where they clearly say that Devas are not gods. It is clearly written there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_(Buddhism)

As for the second question, you have not answered me anywhere. Why are you an atheist since you insist that atheist must disbelieve in all Gods. Why are you then an atheist?
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by plaetton: 2:40pm On Aug 11, 2015
DeepSight:


No: this is still a very bad answer to the question.

The question is not whether some people worshipped giants or volcanoes as gods. If some people did so: then those people are certain not atheists, for no atheist believes in the existence of any god much less worship same.

In your example, the atheist would regard those objects as a giant and as a volcano - and would not regard either as a god.

Therefore you have actually turned the question on its head; for rather than answering the very simple question as to whether there are any atheists that believe in the existence of gods, you have provided examples of theists that do!

An odd thing to do, considering the very definition of the word "theist" as one who so believes in god(s)?

I hope you can see how terribly up-side-down your reasoning is?

So please attempt the question again - are their any atheists who believe in the existence of God or gods?

Simple.
OK.
I get You.

But how would I scan the universe of atheists to know which one believes in a god?
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by FOLYKAZE(m): 2:47pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:


Again, that would depend on what is or what was assumed to be god.

If for example, giants were worshipped as gods, then surely, gods existed.

If volcanoes were worshipped as gods, then surely, gods existed.

Dont make yourself a joke. Atheist will not believe those god exist
Re: The Weah96 Challenge. by DeepSight(m): 3:09pm On Aug 11, 2015
plaetton:

OK.
I get You.

But how would I scan the universe of atheists to know which one believes in a god?

You don't need to scan the universe of atheists. By definition, an atheist does not believe in god or gods. Therefore by definition, there cannot be any atheist who believes in God or gods. Such a person is not an atheist. It would be a logical contradiction exactly the same as the existence of a square circle.

So that closes that, and I can thus come to the reason I raised the question. I raised it to show that the response of weah96 to the OP is completely illogical and an even impossible response to make. He is asked why he does not believe in God and he says "which god"? This would not be necessary to the question because as an atheist being asked that question, the clear assumption is that he does not believe in all and any possible God or gods!

Therefore there is no need for him to begin to look at each of the thousands of gods in antiquity in order to resolve the question: he should simply give reasons why he rejects the existence of all gods.

Finally, on a side note, even if he refuses to do that, perhaps seeking to contend that he may have different reasons for the rejection of the existence of each god in history (which is implausible), the truth is that he is still being pedantic because the OP's question is clear that he is referring to that God - which various tribes call differently and ascribe different qualities to, but have one quality at at least as a common denominator: to wit: the creator supreme being in all existence.

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