olabowale:

@Godson2009: I did not know how to read arabic until 1998, the year I actually identified wat Alif was, a simple straight line from top to bottom. You can do the same, since there was a time that you did not know any alphabet, or word, or sentence, and see you now go at reading!To show you that english Quran is not 100% correct, just like English Bible cant be ever correct, considering the many versions, and always updating by current editions, revisions, and publications, in the Quran, a phrase "Kun Fa ya Kun" appears in at least 8 times. "Fa" in arabic is "So" in English! But when the Arabic phrase is being translated to English, the translators say "and" which in arabic is "wa"! This is why I do not use the english Quran, and of course the English Quran, like Yoruba Quran, etc is not used for Salah, etc and I dont know how many times I have said this to the Christians who dont get it! Listen to Arabic Quran, and you will hear the most beautiful rhythemic sound, very melodious without actually singing, then read the english meaning, in your best voice and compare the acceptance levels of both to your hearing, your heart! The arabic Quran wins, hands down!
situation that a little boy will be conditioned by, will be the same situation that a grown man will be conditioned by, except that the protocols will be different, the same is abrogation! Where is the original Bible, since we know that Quran is in Authentic Arabic?

hmmn i see,dont worry i will do if i am given the research job i am pursuing on terrorism in africa, in the same vein i will enjoin you to read the niv version of the bible,it is in clear and easy to understand english,rather than the kjv or new kjv,i only know of one bible where it says jesus is the son of GOD,and tells me that he died for my sins,e.t.c any other bible you know i suggest you discard them,the voice or the way it sounds is not the bone of contention here,but the truth and falsehood contained therein is what matters,the fact that sina peters is good to hear or obesere and the others doesnt divorce the fact that they have vulgar lyrics

olabowale:

Quranic Interpretation is not Quran! Hadiths are classified as authentic if it agrees with Quran, the expected Book which Muhammad (AS)'s speeches are based and must explain and agreed with, to the weak, which indicates unlikeliness of it being said by Muhammad. Abrogation is a process of replacing an earlier verse with a current verse better or same value in meaning, having a current application. For example the same situation that a little boy will be conditioned by, will be the same situation that a grown man will be conditioned by, except that the protocols will be different, the same is abrogation! Where is the original Bible, since we know that Quran is in Authentic Arabic?
situation that a little boy will be conditioned by, will be the same situation that a grown man will be conditioned by, except that the protocols will be different, the same is abrogation! Where is the original Bible, since we know that Quran is in Authentic Arabic?

another dodging of questions, so hadiths are only authentic,as long as they dont reveal the hidden secrets and contradiction of your mohammad,lol you see the duplicity already in your quran?how will you know he said or didnt say it if you wernt there?everything you are working on is solely based on "it cant have been" it isnt so based on the say so of this and that", even the quran itself shows this confusion because it is neither arranged numerically or chronologically, it is not arranged according to the way the prophecy came bringing in further confusions,in fct the book should be aptly named"the book of confusion"
a non believer can pick up a copy of the bible and at least read with basic comprehension,not so the quran you have to start from the back,and even the ones where u start from the front is soo confusing,
i am tired of this abrogation thing you keep dodging from,it is not replace by a better verse
are you saying the sword verses,is better than verses such as no compulsion in islam,and the defensive jihad verse? you see the crass duplicity and contradiction in your book of confusion??
i see so if by 100 years from now extra terrestials start living on earth with humans,your generations have the right to further tune and shift the quran to suit their purposes?lol lol
im sure you know that the bible has been intact and will always b till the end of time we have only one bible,but different interpretations,to see the complete bible,just type biblegateway on your computer and it ll show you the whole translations there are, no confusion, no seperate hadiths or something from GOD know who

olabowale:

Most sold does not translate to the truest! It just means that it is most popular, agree to because of many factors, and the factors do not mean truthfulness. Lies are easier to accept than truth because of agendas to be fostered: Look at Goerge Bush's and Richard Cheney's and others "Iraqi's WMD that was used for war. And in the final analysis, it is from the lips of Cheney that we heard it as a lie, after Hussaine was already HUNThe bolded is enough motivation. What programme should I get with? The one that will lead to hell? Neeeey!

lol i see,so you agree then?maybe you gys need to make your quran user friendly first of all
secondly.to remove the cloud of duplicity that has been associated with the book of confusion,show everyone you have nothing to hide,both your negatives and pocsitives,like we have done, you can go into any hotel and pick up a bible where you will find the positives and the old testament negatives,all inclusive and finally the coming of jesus to right the wrongs e.t.c

if anyone is fostering agendas,it is the muslims whose angenda is to forcefully convert all non muslims,to islam and kill these unwilling to accept

olabowale:

@Godson2009:I want the love that I get from Muhammad (AS) who was not arrogant to tell me his true position as a prophet/messenger, not shifting one single time about his position, where there is no am god, no an a servant, no am son of god, no am son of man, etc!

But what is interest in all of this is that Muhammad (AS) pointed me directly to the Creator, Allah who holds all the rights to the mercies, forgiveness that I need! I know who my Lord is. Who is yours: Jesus? Or Ghost? Or Father? See where the problem is and the nature of the problem; Multiple choice always lead to a single choice, and in your case will your single choice in the many be the correct, as in "none of the above"?

again this problem is simply from your end english comprehension, remember paddy adenuga and his fathereven though they are one blood,if paddy decideds to give his wife/gf 1 billion dollars tmorrow and his dad said no,whose will will triumph??
food for though for you, then juxtapose it with GOD and jesus

as to the holy ghost, in a molue or public transport,who tells the driver to move to the left or right as the case may be?the conductor who reports to the driver that he needs change or get fuel and all that?the conductor that is the holy ghost,

jesus christ sends the holy ghost on errands, tell olabowale that he shouldnt commit that sin,minister to his heart.

tell uplawal that she should read her bible, e.t.c when you want to commit sin,the holy ghost who is carrying a message from heaven will relay the message to you,dont allow the devil e.t.c

another example is pain, if you are conversant with science,if somoen pricks you with a pin,the pain travels to the brain where is now sends a message to the affected part,that is the holy ghost the difference between them is that GOD the father is permanently seated up there he is the all knowing,co ordinating everything,his son is seated by his shoulder,like your first son will be seating by you when watching tv or wants to get something off you, the father relays important messages,and running of the world to his son,because he is busy, the son sends the memos to the holy spirit,who drives the courier bus to earth into our hearts and minds and ministers to us, that is the difference, they are all one because the same way you and your son are one bllod,same way you and your wife are one is the same way they are all one.

one in purpose as they all have to agree on every single thing

as to the other comments the reason john g lake could not heal every single person is simply because"he is human" however what he has done,with other men and women of GOD,is in the history books,thank GOD you are in america,why dont you publicly prove me wrong,that christian annointing and healing powers from GOD is fake,by conducting a research,and see if the medical community in america did not validate the countless miracles of healing of cancer,disability e.t.c
white ppl dont just believe miracles or acknowledge it untill it is proven to them, these are mere men,not prophets,and this is hundreds of ears after jesus christ had died, after mohammad how many imams have been performing miracles and healing crusades?surely in a followership of 1 billion or so,we should have maybe up to 100 strong and annointed immams who have healing powers?

seeing as you dont have,it shows your own allah is not living,your religion is cold in spite fo the five times prayers, christianity is live and fiery hot that is why you see men of GOD like the hagins oral roberts,morrris cerullo e.t.c praying and thousands will fall under the annointing,they dont need to blow people up or kill to show you GOD IS alive.you noticed i didnt mention any nigerian man or woman of GOD,so that you wont sully it all by saying they r using magic,as to these i have mentioned,they are documented and validated miracle from their hands by relevant scientific authorities in obodo usa that is GOD showing us which of the religions he is residing in

@Godson2009: « #344 on: Today at 01:55:29 AM »

1.yes he did call ppl who deserve to be called fools that,like i said i prefer being called a fool when im acting like one,that being beheaded even while im innocent.

He said those who say that will go to hell. Tell me if ths is true and when he says it if that will not apply here and why?

2.yes he did say he and GOD are one,in the context of the analogy i gave o you about mike adenuga and his first son, the bible is not english comprehension textbook you read through and translate phonetically,one studies the bible not only reading it,that is why you dont have the key to understanding it

"and" a conjuction part of a sentence, denotes there are more than one thing. How can two be one? How can more than one be one? You in a million years can never be in the body of your father, or your younger or older brother or your beloved cousin, except that you are simply you, alone, unique in that respect as you! Try to pass for your twin brother with his wife and you you will "gbo dende oro!"

3.same explanation as no2 ll suffice for jesus and GOD being one.

Bad conditioning and you know Jesus is not God, since Eloi came from his mouth and that Eloi did not die as you claim that Jesus died, when he said it is finished before he gave up the ghost!

4.he needed GOD to do things for him,because he came in human formmoreover,that has already defeated your numerous arguments,because it simply shows that jesus christ acknowledged the superiority of his father, i can ask my father for help,yet if im in nigeria i canrepresent him at some functions and make donations on his behalf,im sure your father's driver will not tell you to get down if you tell him to take you out

Even your cousin , your father's nephew, the son of his twin brother will serve the same purpose, in every respect, if your father is not the discriminating type. But neither you nor yor cousin will pass the muster when it comes to your father's true responsibilities, in the house with the Mrs., or with you the children since you will never be able to get into his account and issue a school fees check to "Oxfort University", where I think you are on your Doctoral research! And if you make a mistake to think your father's driver will bake in the sun while you go inside at your girlfriend's house to perform illicit sex, you will shocked that he will tell you to get out of his face, and your father will support him that you are completely wrong!

5.pls show me where the disciples called jesus servant of GOD?maybe i have not studied my bible to that extent

Acts 4 Verses 25 through 30! Now swallow it and I pray it wakes you up to get away from worshipping a SERVANT! Amin.

6.the issue of the triune has been severally addressed,hence nothing i say will change your mind other than to say stick with your belief and ill stick with mine,as i really cant add anything to the awesome surmissions of the knowledgeable guys on here

At least we agreed on something, except that there is only One God, Allah and from the mouth of Jesus he said Eloi, not Jehovah, not Yahweh. But I am correct here and you know that when push comes to shove, you will turn to 1 God, while all day you shout Trinity, Trinity, Triniiiiiity!

@Godson2009: « #342 on: Today at 12:32:49 AM »

what it means to me,like i have explained to you with an analogy,if paddy adenuga who is the group md of mike adenuga's companies takes some high profile decisions,nobody will question him nor doubt him simply because they know that anything he says has already being cleared with his father,he and his father are one,if your wife goes to nigeria and tells a tenant in your house you built in nigeria to move out,they wont doubt her but beg her as if it was you why?because you are one, i could give you several examples, when i was in nigeria,me and my brothers will go to my dad's hotel and drink and eat all sorts and tell them to put it on director's credit,we are not the owner of the establishment,but they know that man gave birth to us,so we can order to eat and drink and not pay just as if it was the owner,if you dont get it this way,then im sorry

Paddy Adenuga will be damned by his father, if his announcement is going to make them lose say 1 Billion USD! Mike will never stand for that and if he is the Ijebu man that people have spoken about in my hearing! Even his son will never be allowed by the general manager to make an unproittable announcement, and you will see how the Ijebu think comes out of Mike's body and one time may disgrace or even tell Paddy and his mother to get out of his life for ever! You dont know that Ijebu man. In america, his condition was told to me how he will not leave a penny on the table, quick to short change his senior officers until one of them whose wife is a lawyer and a friend of my younger cousin to him to Awujale for decision. Both are Christians and Sikiru is ia muslim and in the age range of some of my older brothers, much much younger than my father's first child!

we all know that death can come anytime,however i shall not die prematuredly but live to glorify the goodness of the lord,pastor adeboye said he will die on a sunday after church during his siesta,and a meal of pounded yam, so he is expecting death and he know but he will not die prematuredly, so we r all expecting death next?

And when Adegboye dies, if he dies on Christianity and not on Islam, I swear by Allah the Creator that he will have a free-pass to Hell fire! And those of mankind who say that they are eager for death and prescribed their own way of dying, if it happens like they say, it is not because they are God, or een good, because Allah may just grant them their wish, either to disgrace them, which they only will see as their soul is being removed from their body by the angel of death. It always amazes me when a disbeliever in Oneness of God is reported to "have died in peace." Do the speakers have seen what the angel of death was doing to each of them? There is no peaceful death for disbelievers, even if she/he dies in the best bedding!

simply because you cant compare both experiences,go and read the biblical accounts of what jesus went through, are you for real??the point is that GOD created both abraham,isaac and jesus christ,so theres no point comparing or contrasting as far as we christians are concerned gerrit??if mohammad wasnt a scaredy cat,why didnt he wait in mecca after the death of his protectors?that is what i call being lazy and spineless,not a man that an iron stake was hammered into his hands and legs,crown of thorns,whipped e.t.c

Moses ran from Egypt to Median. Jesus and his parents ran to Egypt. If he had ran the second time, the hanging, according to you would have happend. This would not have happened is my own conclusion, so that I bring human wisdom to the table. Moses did not lack human wisdom, and neither was Muhammad (AS to all of them)! Please dont sell me a bill of goods because it is not okay to arrogantly stand in front of death and kill yourself. The same reason I amd many muslims complain on about the suicide bombers!

olabowale:

@Godson2009: « #344 on: Today at 01:55:29 AM » He said those who say that will go to hell. Tell me if ths is true and when he says it if that will not apply here and why?

show me the bible verse sire,also you did not answer my assertion,i said i prefer being called a fool if i deserve to be,than being summarily beheaded by a violent and vindictive leader(mohammad)

olabowale:

"and" a conjuction part of a sentence, denotes there are more than one thing. How can two be one? How can more than one be one? You in a million years can never be in the body of your father, or your younger or older brother or your beloved cousin, except that you are simply you, alone, unique in that respect as you! Try to pass for your twin brother with his wife and you you will "gbo dende oro!"

you are so good at analogies,yet when you are given one,you intentionally feign ignorance or indifference, in african tradition do you ealise that a first son is like part of the father??go and ask about the ibo tradition,if the father dies,the first son inherits everything,he automatically owns the family house even if his mother is alive, he is more like a second daddy or "daddy inside daddy"because they are one, for you to adequately understand,check out the importance of a first born and then son,to any father especially if they look alike,and he is obedient,kind gentle  everything his father expects, same thing as the hausas,where the first son is almost revered,the mother of the first son addresses and takes care of the first son same as she would the father.
#

olabowale:

@Godson2009: « #344 on: Today at 01:55:29 AM »

Bad conditioning and you know Jesus is not God, since Eloi came from his mouth and that Eloi did not die as you claim that Jesus died, when he said it is finished before he gave up the ghost!

again i have tried my utmost to explain this,its not my fault if you cant comprehend,either knowingly or unknowingly

olabowale:

Even your cousin , your father's nephew, the son of his twin brother will serve the same purpose, in every respect, if your father is not the discriminating type. But neither you nor yor cousin will pass the muster when it comes to your father's true responsibilities, in the house with the Mrs., or with you the children since you will never be able to get into his account and issue a school fees check to "Oxfort University", where I think you are on your Doctoral research! And if you make a mistake to think your father's driver will bake in the sun while you go inside at your girlfriend's house to perform illicit sex, you will shocked that he will tell you to get out of his face, and your father will support him that you are completely wrong!

again,i will refer back to the above comment about first sons and their importance to parents, if you check first city merchant bank,otunba subomi balogun installed his son,they both make decisions and run it,at times he makes important decisions on his father's behalf,its as if the father is still running the bak
2.kola abiola even before his father died same thing,even his father's wives some couldnt question his authority even though being officially his step mum
3.ibrahim babangida i could go on and on,a true first son whom the father loves,will do anything even make decisions on behalf of the father,paddy adenuga sacks old men older than his father who are high management without his father being there,they can only grumble not protest because they know what he says is same as his father
the last example is recent;go and google why mohamma ghadaffi's fourth son,was briefly locked up because he was said to have beaten his house help,you know what ghadaffi did?
he placed a freeze on bu libya's business with swiss,
ask they d didnt lock mohamma ghadaffi up personali but his son?
yes,but his son is a personification a representative of his father,in swiss at that time,so it is the same as disrespecting and locking mohammar ghadaffi up

olabowale:

Acts 4 Verses 25 through 30! Now swallow it and I pray it wakes you up to get away from worshipping a SERVANT! Amin.

At least we agreed on something, except that there is only One God, Allah and from the mouth of Jesus he said Eloi, not Jehovah, not Yahweh. But I am correct here and you know that when push comes to shove, you will turn to 1 God, while all day you shout Trinity, Trinity, Triniiiiiity!

of course there is only one GOD,and he has a son who is GOD the son,who assists him and is seated by his side and GOD the holy spirit,who is like the commander on earth directs our thoughs e.t.c you read the same acts 4;24 who were the "they"
it was neither peter nor john but "their people"show me where epter and john called jesus a servant

olabowale:

@Godson2009: « #342 on: Today at 12:32:49 AM » Paddy Adenuga will be damned by his father, if his announcement is going to make them lose say 1 Billion USD! Mike will never stand for that and if he is the Ijebu man that people have spoken about in my hearing! Even his son will never be allowed by the general manager to make an unproittable announcement, and you will see how the Ijebu think comes out of Mike's body and one time may disgrace or even tell Paddy and his mother to get out of his life for ever! You dont know that Ijebu man. In america, his condition was told to me how he will not leave a penny on the table, quick to short change his senior officers until one of them whose wife is a lawyer and a friend of my younger cousin to him to Awujale for decision. Both are Christians and Sikiru is ia muslim and in the age range of some of my older brothers, much much younger than my father's first child!

@the bolded
exactly,even jesus christ has limitations ONLY WITH HIS FATHER GOD,not with us mere human beings, that is why the bible did not tell us that he shared the heavenly throne with his father GOD,it said,he sat on the side as the second in command,so like you have rightly said,while paddy adenuga will not spend like 1 BILLION DOLLARS he certainly wields enormous powers in his father's companies by virture of the fact that he is paddy adenuga first son,that is the point of the triune, he can get to a party and see a hot girl or if he is into spraying money for musicians and they will hail him as globacom,because he is part and parcel of the man

And when Adegboye dies, if he dies on Christianity and not on Islam, I swear by Allah the Creator that he will have a free-pass to Hell fire! And those of mankind who say that they are eager for death and prescribed their own way of dying, if it happens like they say, it is not because they are God, or een good, because Allah may just grant them their wish, either to disgrace them, which they only will see as their soul is being removed from their body by the angel of death. It always amazes me when a disbeliever in Oneness of God is reported to "have died in peace." Do the speakers have seen what the angel of death was doing to each of them? There is no peaceful death for disbelievers, even if she/he dies in the best bedding!

[/quote]
if you are already swearing,which is a sin according to my bible anyway,then i am trully sorry for you sir,because that man s place in heaven is secured i am praying and hopint to get to that level of convenant partnering with my GOD,where my heaven is assured,like i have said to you,while your own allah went to sleep or is even burning in hell fire now with mohammad for causing many people to sin like you and several others pastor adeboye is spreading the annointing,look at how many souls have converted to christianity through him,how many muslims was your allah on lunch break when they were getting their healings and miracles in the churches? he can boldly and confidently say how he will join the lord,because he is on that level with GOD,moses was on that level with GOD as well because he saw GOD and the only person who did,abraham was on that level too,joshua too, that is why these ppl are called covenant partners with GOD,he talkes to them normally and tells them what to do daily

Moses ran from Egypt to Median. Jesus and his parents ran to Egypt. If he had ran the second time, the hanging, according to you would have happend. This would not have happened is my own conclusion, so that I bring human wisdom to the table. Moses did not lack human wisdom, and neither was Muhammad (AS to all of them)! Please dont sell me a bill of goods because it is not okay to arrogantly stand in front of death and kill yourself. The same reason I amd many muslims complain on about the suicide bombers!
[quote]

moses was not a confirmed prophet when he ran,he was still a prince of egypt who was just new in service to the lord,cant be compared to mohammad a supposedly established prophet,with followers, remember the same moses went back to egypt,not with men and arms,weapons but with only aaron and his staff,he would have gobne back alone if not for his stutter and the lord sent aaron to speak on his behalf,when jesus was of age,show me where he ever ran like a scared chicken namely mohammad,running away and calling it hijra, why didint he wait if he was sure he was with allah?surely allah would have protected his prophet from harm?unless allah was on lunch break like he has been the past how many years lol

i see,is it worse than your mohammad then who opted to behead everyone who made him angry?remember i told you about the young girls he had killed just for singing a satire mocking him?like davidlan and noetic are always haranguing you,did your mohammed ever forgive?show me one verse that he forgave and ill show you another verse that he didnt forgive, remember i posted a couple of the intolerable and vile stuffs mohammad said,at least jesus never enjoined us not to make friends with non christians unlike mohammad
jesus christ or our own GOD never blocked anyone's ears to salvation like your own vindictive,wicked allah has done, why is it strange to you that he called human beings a nest of vipers,what will you call the group of nigerian politicians or pdp for instance?
what will you call the ritual killers?

I call them all kind of names. But am not a god, you said Jesus was or is, take your pick! I expected people who behaved like me to be human. People who performed miracles to be at least spiritually different from me. If their miracles are from God, as He wishes them to perform for His glory, then they are prophets or messengers. This is different from your Adegboye's miracles, because he chalks his miracles to Jesus, whom I have aready established as a "SERVANT", look at ACTS 4 Verses 25 through 30!

Now if Muhammad (AS) wa vindictive, then no Jew would have existed with their head on their shoulders when they were being told to leave Madina, into exiles because of their treacherous acts against the already established "COVENANT" among all the ctizenry of Madina. I wonder how the woman who poisoned him had her head on her shoulders? I wonder how the Makkans did not die enmasse? I wonder how the Taif people wre not slaughtere with the Biggest slaughter Mankind ever to have been known?

The fact that mild manered Abu Bakr (RA) fought the muslims who refused to pay Zakat shows that whoever is fought or killed were not because of their not being Muslims, or persnal hatred of Muhammad, because they do evil, crime against humanity or community, via Sharia, if they are muslims, or if they are not what the community already agreed upon to keep peace and decency!

he called these who are unrepentant sinners a nest of vipers e.t.c not ppl like me who realised the folly of their ways and turned round to serve the lord,go and read the parable of the prodigal son, that ll answer your question]/quote]Arrogance is what you are showing and showboating and pride are not good!

some of the names or descriptions your mohammad uses for non muslims,now figure out which is better being called a dog or these names,

And Jesus called people vipers, leeches, adulterous generations, evil generation, and from the book of Timothy, I know Jesus was not Timothy, we see "INFIDEL" written in the Bible, and that you will not see in Arabic Quran!

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. q98;6

And the prophets before Muhammad did exactly that with all who do not believe in their ministry? Now, so that you are proven wrong here and now; I will remain a Muslim, inshaAllah, shall I from your Christian eyes destined for Paradise? What about the Jews, and the polytheists, are we all going to Christian paradise if we die in our religions? Without peaching because it will not work here, if we are all good people, doers of good things, believing in One God, and refusing like I do, and Jews do that Jesus is not God, and God does not have any child, what happened? I know the Jews are boastful about killing your god, since you must have participated in your youth dragging the effigee of Judas iscariot all over your naighborhood at easter!

And if We had pleased, We would certainly have exalted him thereby; but he clung to the earth and followed his low desire, so his parable is as the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications; therefore relate the narrative that they may reflect q7;176
who was mohammad calling panting dogs??

Jesus also used dog for a whole nation, because they are not from the 12 nations of the children of Israel! Whats your point here: proofing that Muhammad is not a prophett or that Jesus is god? Either way you lose!

Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path. q 5;60
who did he say allah made apes and pigs?the worst and lowest form anyone can be called by a muslim?

I am happy that Muhammad iwas like every prophet that I am going to mention here, so count them to see that Myhammad (AS) was in good company, except they are not prophets or good people. You will have to argue this out here. Noah made sure that the evil people died in the flood that was the biggest flood known to man. Ibrahim made sure the Idols of his family and people were uttherly destroyed. Moses made sure that Pharaoh and his army met their doom. David made sure that the killing filed was experienced by Goliat. May Allah less each of them Amin. Jesus tried in the same way and please deny it if you can; as a young man, he turned over the table of the exchangers, then killed as in drowning pigs, while he was doing a good, I will assume you will accept the drowning of the pig was not that good, since you eat the possessed animal? Jesus called people fools after he said dont call people fools and that will earn you the ticket to hell, and to my surprise the peaceful man, your god asked his companion to buy swords, which actually is in the conformity of "I come not to bring peace but war!" Now give "WAR" here a good spin. I wanna see how you will do in your effort!

the moral of the story,these who live in glass houses dont throw stones alhaji alhaji alhaji

There is no glass house here, sincewhat I have said is the truth. You have three gods, and your human god calleded people fools, after he had escoriated people never to say that that the sayer will end up in hell!

@Godson2009: « #343 on: Today at 01:19:36 AM »

simply because your mohammad,like i and others have been saying is not only a fraud,confusionist and full of contradictions,is actually the hypocrite of the highest form, let us forget all other evidences and pick just one pattern,his revelations always happen to be when he wants something either coveting his step son's wife,justifying his raiding,justifying his sexual hedonism/orgies e.t.c people are shuting that pastor adeboye is buying a jet,simply because they know it is unlike him,nobody raised an eyebrow when bishop oyedepo bought another one, now imagine all the negative vices your mohammad indulged in,the fact that you learnt from him is not enough to erase his bad records, i learnt from ted bundy not to be a serial killer,i learnt from the nigerians executed in bangkok not to carry drugs there,doesnt change the fact hat some of them are guilty, well lets start from bloodshed the muslims in nigeria have killed the most,the people that has messed nigeria up to its present state are muslims,the almajiris they use are muslims,we have not had any peace because of the arabic on our currency, america's currency says "in GOD we trust"is it not working for them?show me where islam is in practise all over the world,and there is absolute peace??

Fraud is passing up lies intentionally as truth or we may say a hypocrite is a fraud! No? Where did Muhammad (AS) fit either? And where is Muhammad a confusionist, or contradicting, etc? Please proof them up, because I will like them! Hypocracy, hardly him and the revelations if it answers and or addresses issues is that convenience or actuality? Why dont we look at this situation for a moment: When Muhammad (AS) was asked by the jews to describe the "Soul" of Man, he said they should come tomorrow, thinking that Jibril will come down by then. When the Jews came he did not give them answer to their question, and he was saddened, since the Jews thought that they got him as they god your Jesus in the bible! Then Prophet (AS) told them to come the following day. The same situation happened, and of course the same smirkering reaction is what the Jews embark on. Now the prophet asked them to come back the third day and maybe the situation occurred again, or it was this time that Allah sents revelation to Muhammad (AS) with the answer that when they ask you about soul, "say" the knowledge of it is with Allah, and what is told to me is very little" Surah Mariam or Isra. Another is on the day of Id itself after the day of Arafat, when Muhammad prayed to Allah that He accepts all the forgiveness of the belieers. Abu Bakr and Umar (RA) say him with a saddened and unsettled look. They asked him what was with the matter, whereby he responded, only when he smile that Allah had sent Jibril to say to him that all of the prayers have been accepted. Another is in Surah Waqia, where Allah says large group from the earliest generations will enter paradise and small group will enter paradise from the last generations. Muhammad (AS) was very saddened, and Allah asnwered his concerns and gave him the wishes as the verse later in the same surah says large group will be going to paradise in the last generations, whereby ony HYPOCRITES from the muslims deserve to not enter Paradise! Your christian case is what we call the case of Disbelievers.

Finally, did Muhammad (AS) have what is called revelations of Convenience? No and my last proof is Surah Abasa, which was revealed to call him out, simply because he turned his face to another direction only to finish his conversation, before he attends to the "Blind man", immediately after!

exactly,that shows the magnanimity of my father who is in heaven, im sure you have read the lords prayer and i want you to note a specific verse"forgive us our sins, as we forgive these who trespass against us, meaning that forgiveness is based on specific conditions,christianity is so beautiful because the lord while forgiving us,is teaching us the act of forgiveness, ghandi isnt a christian,but his famous quote says"an eye for an eye,makes the world go blind"no wonder the islamic community all round the world are blind,keep on blowing ppl up,and we will be getting more and more converts,haveyou heard of the nigerian pastor in ukraine?he has the largest church in the whole of ukraine, we r moving the lord acknowledges that we are human,and hence susceptible to sin,that is why we are living under grace,you commit multiple sins every single day yet we still go back to him,and he forgives us,mohammad commited all manner of atrocities,yet he s unfairly putting his followers under a rule/doctrine he was not able to fullfill

Stop kidding me because if you have the HOTELIER still alive in Nigeria, and he will be participating in the Ocotober 1st thing, tomorrow, there is no father for you in heaven, though you call yourself GODSON, another gimmick! {Say (O, Muhammad): “If you love Allâh, then follow me, Allâh will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”}; [3:31]., is from Quran showing superior Mercy, just by following Muhammad (AS). I have tons of them in the Quran! You read 'im if you can! And Ghandi spoke very highly about Muhammad (AS) and the eye for an eye is more Jewish, the reason the Jews did not buy the "dont stone a sexual freak", and they had to come to Madina for due Justice! "The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) loves not those who do wrong." The Qur'an 42:40 . Am gonna leaveyou with a website address where you can get materials from Quran and ahadith where forgiveness and mercy are expressed. Just part of what are in Islam; www.ilaam.net/Articles/Forgiveness.html - Cached - Similar

olabowale:

I call them all kind of names. But am not a god, you said Jesus was or is, take your pick! I expected people who behaved like me to be human. People who performed miracles to be at least spiritually different from me. If their miracles are from God, as He wishes them to perform for His glory, then they are prophets or messengers. This is different from your Adegboye's miracles, because he chalks his miracles to Jesus, whom I have aready established as a "SERVANT", look at ACTS 4 Verses 25 through 30!

all you did was show me where" them" their people i.e congregation called jesus a servant,if i chalked up the different names people have been called then,we would still be here till tmorrow, some people say "man of GOD" some say "ministers of GOD" some say "servant of GOD" the fact that there are variations in thes names does not change the fact of who they are,moreover jesus christ himself in the bible stated who he was namely the son of GOD,he continues that no one can get to "the father"but through him the son,that ha more than addressed the issue of servant or son,i might decide to see your beard and call you bin laden,some might call you mujahideen,others might call you their muslim brother e.t.c it does not change the fact of who you profess to be,or who you are so saying that you "established"is a very wrong use of the word,and is erroneous at the best,for want of a milder word,so we are both agreed that christian men of GOD or servant of GOD,do healings and miracles in jesus name then?we r getting somewhere

olabowale:

Now if Muhammad (AS) wa vindictive, then no Jew would have existed with their head on their shoulders when they were being told to leave Madina, into exiles because of their treacherous acts against the already established "COVENANT" among all the ctizenry of Madina. I wonder how the woman who poisoned him had her head on her shoulders? I wonder how the Makkans did not die enmasse? I wonder how the Taif people wre not slaughtere with the Biggest slaughter Mankind ever to have been known?

well mohammad actually killed the jews,what did he do to the Bani Qaynuqa?he spared them due to pleadings from a neighbouring arab leader what was their offence,they refused to accept him as a prophet, same thing still happening with muslims today.

olabowale:

same thing to the bani nadir jews,for the same reason, in his un bridled violent rage,he ordered the assasination of their leader kab ibn ashraf and even told the killers it would be ok to lie in order to gain the confidence of their victim Bukhari, 5:59:369,did followers of mohammad not kill some men from the tribe of amir? and what did he eventually do to the bani nadir even though they had been forced to accept islam?
he sacked the village nevertheless and shared their property amongst himself and his followers, that is the kind of prophet you people worship.
not finished with that,he faced bani quraiza and your hadith says it all after they have surrendered, When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah." (Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:280), theres still more if you want

olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4643226#msg4643226 date=1254339878:

The fact that mild manered Abu Bakr (RA) fought the muslims who refused to pay Zakat shows that whoever is fought or killed were not because of their not being Muslims, or persnal hatred of Muhammad, because they do evil, crime against humanity or community, via Sharia, if they are muslims, or if they are not what the community already agreed upon to keep peace and decency!


And Jesus called people vipers, leeches, adulterous generations, evil generation, and from the book of Timothy, I know Jesus was not Timothy, we see "INFIDEL" written in the Bible, and that you will not see in Arabic Quran!

yes,but he never called people vile dogs of the lowest order,apes and pigs,pls show me where infidel was written so i can learn sire??

olabowale:

And the prophets before Muhammad did exactly that with all who do not believe in their ministry? Now, so that you are proven wrong here and now; I will remain a Muslim, inshaAllah, shall I from your Christian eyes destined for Paradise? What about the Jews, and the polytheists, are we all going to Christian paradise if we die in our religions? Without peaching because it will not work here, if we are all good people, doers of good things, believing in One God, and refusing like I do, and Jews do that Jesus is not God, and God does not have any child, what happened? I know the Jews are boastful about killing your god, since you must have participated in your youth dragging the effigee of Judas iscariot all over your naighborhood at easter!

its simple and straightfoward he said "except a man be born again,they shall not enter the kingdom of GOD,secondly what you are reffering to as doing good is just righteousness which he said is like a filthy rag before his eyes

olabowale:

Jesus also used dog for a whole nation, because they are not from the 12 nations of the children of Israel! Whats your point here: proofing that Muhammad is not a prophett or that Jesus is god? Either way you lose!

no sire im a winner man,look at my religion and yours and tell me which one has the fire and whose GOD is alive and performing,then we can deduce who wins and lose, GOD THE FATHER,GOD THE SON AND GOD THE HOLY GHOST,mohammad is an ordinary man who managed to hoodwink gullible people of his generation,like any religion that stands apart from the norm,it has managed to grow over the years,now the laws of diminishing returns is working against the religion, look at scientology,is it not growing,even satanists are growing

I am happy that Muhammad iwas like every prophet that I am going to mention here, so count them to see that Myhammad (AS) was in good company, except they are not prophets or good people. You will have to argue this out here. Noah made sure that the evil people died in the flood that was the biggest flood known to man. Ibrahim made sure the Idols of his family and people were uttherly destroyed. Moses made sure that Pharaoh and his army met their doom. David made sure that the killing filed was experienced by Goliat. May Allah less each of them Amin. Jesus tried in the same way and please deny it if you can; as a young man, he turned over the table of the exchangers, then killed as in drowning pigs, while he was doing a good, I will assume you will accept the drowning of the pig was not that good, since you eat the possessed animal? Jesus called people fools after he said dont call people fools and that will earn you the ticket to hell, and to my surprise the peaceful man, your god asked his companion to buy swords, which actually is in the conformity of "I come not to bring peace but war!" Now give "WAR" here a good spin. I wanna see how you will do in your effort!

i dont have to do anything really because this particular comment has shown you up and the pathetic way you are hanging on to your stance at the fingertips,i will tell you one single thing with trumps all these is mohammed being a trickster,like i have adduced in the hadith up there,we all know he was blood thirssty and he betrayed and broke numerous truce,rather than proving that he was all that,you muslims have your job cut out proving that he was indeed a prophet and of high moral standing

olabowale:

There is no glass house here, sincewhat I have said is the truth. You have three gods, and your human god calleded people fools, after he had escoriated people never to say that that the sayer will end up in hell!

pathetic when you start repeating the same things over and over,while i am conducting my research bringing up new facts

while in medina/yathrib,he and his followers raided yemeni traders going to mecca,then justifying it by saying that they were doing so because they were persecuted while in mecca,remember i explained this to you a couple of dys ago?when i posted the dictionary meaning of "persecute"if you want the relevant hadiths after this,just speedily ask me and ill furnish you, you know me by now i back every assertion up, in my books raiding innocent travellers/traders is the same as being an highway robber,no difference.

Ghazwatu Badr is what you are thinking about, but not Yemeni and it was Makkan Caravan, it was not stealing or highway robbery, but a way for the fisrt war to take place with unprepared just over 300 fasting people to finally standup for their rights! You dont know aything about the wars that the Muslims fought under Muhammad (AS), but you are just pretending to be a scholar on Islam! And as to persecution, what do you think the Money exchangers felt, it not that the felt that they have ben persecuted? I will wait for your response. Buying swords must have a purpose. Please tell me what was the purpose of the purchases as Jesus instructed, since he said earlier, a came with war, not peace?

thank GOD you t least agree to that after the overwhelming evidence i have taken the pains to present lol dont worry i know what is called dar- al harb territory of war which consists of all the non muslim lands which had to be forcefully brought under islamic rule,while mohammad formerly said that the ppl of the book should be let alone and maybe pay jizya,he later abrogated himself,and the sword verses triumphed where he said they are to be killed and the jihad must not stop untill the whole world is dar-al-islam.

You just talk, without a sincillar of truth. But then Christianity dont fight, except Crusade and then Armageddon! No? Continue and your secret will blet out of the bag, as Allah Wills it, you Christian man.

show me a single place,where jesus or his disciples ever used a sword,or violence in the bible,mohammad spilled innocent blood,maimed and killed while jesus christ healed,fed, why d you think judas committed suicide?why dyu think peter had that passion in spite of all they went through for the gospel,some were beheaded for the gospel,imprisoned,burnt at the stake,boiled in hot water e.t.c ask yourself what is the passion and zeal jesus christ a supposedly ordinary man,who was unarmed,no horse or donkey,no money or wife no political power nothing instilled in them,to be prepared to die for him and do everything, mohammad instilled fear and trembling in his followers,he had political power,money,ruled the city of medina with an iron fist,lied contradicted himself e.t.c yet you ppl are losing converts everyday

Jesus didnt use sword per see, but did his followers used it to cut off an ear! And they were ready to use it though even at their perl, except Jesus thought, uhm, they will be killed to nothingness. By the way, go to the post that I made yesterday where I directed you to Muhammad's miracles by Allah! Am sure you are afraid of the truth, yur reason for not referring to all my references!

lol no sire,even though im totally against islam,dont yoke yourself or your religion with northerners holding power,i am a student of politics and in case you dont know,the same thing that happened with the tutsis and the hutus is what happened in nigeria, it was never by merit,but that is by the way,has nigeria ever known peace since they have had power?

I have 4 nieces born in the north. My Igbo wife speaks hausa fluently. Its you who is a darn tribalist here. I will survive in the community of Muslims, anywhere on earth. Take that to the bank! I will put my wife in the front with Igbo mainly Catholic people, I guess $Osisi, in her protestants' ways is a minority there just like me!

go and read your international history,saudi arabia was almost finished,if not for the oil discovery,and dont let anyone decieve you,once america weans themselves off oil like they are doing now slowly but surely,saudi arabia will be powerless and this is in less than 100 years from now by all indications,china will be their only customer and you know as well as i do hell will freeze over before they will allow islam into their country,the governor of gombe invited pastor kumuyi to his office and is building a church, see we r even entering the north now halleluyah

There is a lot of Muslims in China, over 80 to 100 Million people. You must be a great international politics student! Not! And before Oil, Makka and Madina will always be wealthy and supported by the worldwide body of Muslims. And Petrochemical industries will always be in need of Oil, forget the AUTOMOTIVE usage for a moment! Chemical engeering my friend; Polymers, and more petrochemical usages! As long as there is mankind on earth, the Dua of Ibrahim thats already been accepted will not let Makka Suffer and Madina by extension will not suffer! I have a joke of Jewish people for you; they always blame Moses for not turning just an angle slightly from what he took, they would have became the owners of rich oil fields! You dont know any Jew, if you do, ask him!

same as i have so?mine is even better because i am born agan,hence i will not indulge in idol worship like you do,nor fornication and adultery with multiple women

Between you and me, I prostrate my face to One Illah. When I talk to my God, it is One Creator, Al Illah (ALLAH)! You on the other hand, regardless of your "born again" mantra, you kneel to 3 gods; Father on a chair, Jesus on a cross, and a ghost with no name or Identity! When you pray you say to father, oand add son, but never mention ghost, yet you say they are all your gods! No? Now who is the idol worshipper, sncer there is no but One God?

are you serious,now im sure you r just yanking my chain how many contradictions, and glaring ones at that have i shown you on this religious thread?i cant help but laugh out and shout like muslims after friday prayers going for thei jihad

Am not yanking your chains,and am completely serious. Yanking chain belongs to the days o slavery. But I see you avoiding the Biblical verse "Vengeance is Mine says the Lord," and the info that I gave you concerning the Miracles of Muhammad (AS) by Allah's permission, and am sure you will also ignore the verses and the website that I gave concerning forgives! I know your type man. At least you have the backbone to stand up for you belief, regardless of its defiiency, unlike some Jelly-fish like people! Pele.

Quote from: olabowale on Yesterday at 08:44:38 PM

There is no glass house here, sincewhat I have said is the truth. You have three gods, and your human god calleded people fools, after he had escoriated people never to say that that the sayer will end up in hell!

On one hand Jesus says in Matthew 5:22, ”But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

On the other hand Psalm 14:1 ”The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” And, in Matthew 23:17 Jesus says “Ye fools and blind(to the pharisees): for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?”



Context: When Jesus said in Matthew 5:22 that we should not call anyone a fool, He was talking about those who did so in unrighteous anger. What do I mean by context? Anger is the main subject of the verse. There is such a thing as a righteous anger which is not sinful (Ephesians 4:26 – “Be ye angry, and sin not:. . .” ) as well as unrighteous anger that is sinful (James 1:20 – “for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.”).

As for Jesus calling the Pharisees fools, that’s a different story altogether. When God is angry with someone, He always has a righteous reason for His anger. Therefore, He is righteous in His anger. Jesus, being God in flesh ( John 1:1,14; 20:28; Colossians 2:9), can righteously be angry, especially to the Pharisees, and call them like He sees them. And so you have Matthew 23:17. God does not contradict Himself in calling someone a fool, especially when it is true. He would contradict Himself if He did not call sin what it is.

In the end, Jesus’ condemnation of calling someone a fool is in the context of righteous anger. Because Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees in righteous anger when He called them fools.Therefore, Matthew 5:22 doesn’t even apply to Matthew 23:17.

i laugh in shorthand

Muhammad Confirmed Unknowingly By Rabbis
« on: Yesterday at 10:57:57 AM » See the video of the Jewish Rabbi singing the song of Solomon, in the Muslim' baby board.


Continue with your excuses. When I said "I swear by Allah", you said I was showing anger, but a person who called people "FOOLS" you said a righteousness anger! It gets better. What is it when he called them dogs, ar aevil generation, etc? I think he is praising them, what the yorubas say "Onsa won, onki won" etc, I think. No?

you are so good at analogies,yet when you are given one,you intentionally feign ignorance or indifference, in african tradition do you ealise that a first son is like part of the father??go and ask about the ibo tradition,if the father dies,the first son inherits everything,he automatically owns the family house even if his mother is alive, he is more like a second daddy or "daddy inside daddy"because they are one,

This first son; can he sleep with the Mrs? If he cant then he is not Daddy! Understand that, because is the one that sleeps with the Mrs. The rest are liars!

for you to adequately understand,check out the importance of a first born and then son,to any father especially if they look alike,and he is obedient,kind gentle everything his father expects, same thing as the hausas,where the first son is almost revered,the mother of the first son addresses and takes care of the first son same as she would the father.

Am a father of two grown sons. Bot look like spitting image of daddy, me! Lai can never be Oko mommy, lailai! Neither will Dunwo! And the Igbo man knows that he is always a son, and cant enter bedroom and excite the Mrs., the job of Father! Please Godson2009, stop pushing the envelopes, God is God and Jesus was human prophet for the obtrusive children of Israel.
#

you see the duplicity already in your quran?how will you know he said or didnt say it if you wernt there?everything you are working on is solely based on "it cant have been" it isnt so based on the say so of this and that", even the quran itself shows this confusion because it is neither arranged numerically or chronologically, it is not arranged according to the way the prophecy came bringing in further confusions,in fct the book should be aptly named"the book of confusion"

The Uniqueness of the Quran is underscored by the fact that at the end the Jigsaw puzzle of revelations of verses and chapters, when completed fit to one another perfectly! Surah Anfal fitting with Surah Tauba. I am asking you to tell me where you find discrepancies, a single one, and all you say is "its not arranged in cronological order of revealed verses and chapters!" Thats not a good reason, because a writer can give you the end of his story, a fiction and begin to fill in the gabs, writing the middle part and ending it up with the beginning! The important thing is that the story makes sense when you read it, and the genius of the writer shows when the book is not edited, or versioned, or reedited and even when in paperback still has everything that the hardback has. Finally, the book that can not be dublicated and has a language of its own and when a person makes a mistake the book stops you, makes you conscious of your mistake and until you correct yourself, if you are intentionally making the mistake, you will be tongue tied!

That book is the Quran, still in the ORIGINAL Language the Fusat accented Arabic!

On one hand Jesus says in Matthew 5:22, ”But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

On the other hand Psalm 14:1 ”The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” And, in Matthew 23:17 Jesus says “Ye fools and blind(to the pharisees): for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?”



Context: When Jesus said in Matthew 5:22 that we should not call anyone a fool, He was talking about those who did so in unrighteous anger. What do I mean by context? Anger is the main subject of the verse. There is such a thing as a righteous anger which is not sinful (Ephesians 4:26 – “Be ye angry, and sin not:. . .” ) as well as unrighteous anger that is sinful (James 1:20 – “for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.”).

As for Jesus calling the Pharisees fools, that’s a different story altogether. When God is angry with someone, He always has a righteous reason for His anger. Therefore, He is righteous in His anger. Jesus, being God in flesh ( John 1:1,14; 20:28; Colossians 2:9), can righteously be angry, especially to the Pharisees, and call them like He sees them. And so you have Matthew 23:17. God does not contradict Himself in calling someone a fool, especially when it is true. He would contradict Himself if He did not call sin what it is.

In the end, Jesus’ condemnation of calling someone a fool is in the context of righteous anger. Because Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees in righteous anger when He called them fools.Therefore, Matthew 5:22 doesn’t even apply to Matthew 23:17

After reading the above, I just have to laugh with Uplawal, at Godson2009!

olabowale:

Ghazwatu Badr is what you are thinking about, but not Yemeni and it was Makkan Caravan, it was not stealing or highway robbery, but a way for the fisrt war to take place with unprepared just over 300 fasting people to finally standup for their rights! You dont know aything about the wars that the Muslims fought under Muhammad (AS), but you are just pretending to be a scholar on Islam! And as to persecution, what do you think the Money exchangers felt, it not that the felt that they have ben persecuted? I will wait for your response. Buying swords must have a purpose. Please tell me what was the purpose of the purchases as Jesus instructed, since he said earlier, a came with war, not peace?

not ghazwatu badr sire,the battle of badr was the official or unofficial first jihad in a manner of speaking,this was the first decisive battle your prophet and his followers won,which gave them the confidence and the impetus to pursue millitant jihad against unbelievers,this was not immediately after they settled in medina,so you are completely mistaken, my own accounts of yathrib which was the old name medina was known by is the time mohammad and his followers just arrived there from mecca, go and read and dont assume or presume that you know everything islam just because you are a muslim,i know you must be pissed off for my effontery of correcting you,but academic journals,with peer review dont lie , the very first time mohammad and his followers settled in medina,they had no money or means of livelihood,and so started razzia or raiding, for the meccans to be angry to the extent of bringing an army to fight him ,was because he had been doing it for a while untill they v had enough.and the incident i am on about,is that of yemeni traders going to mecca,not meccan traders,you can justify it anyway you want but stealing is stealing if you take what doesnt belong to you by force,and then kill these you took it from, modern day armed robbers too have their reasons for robbing which they can justify,does it make them right?

since when has overturning tables being equivalent to beheadings sire?just answer that??

olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4644085#msg4644085 date=1254354268
You just talk, without a sincillar of truth. But then Christianity dont fight, except Crusade and then Armageddon! No? Continue and your secret will blet out of the bag, as Allah Wills it, you Christian man.

[/quote]
so you dont know what dar al harb territory means?? by the way the crusades had nothing to do with religion,go and read their stories and how they ended up at the top,and then killed off by the king of france, e.t.c
[quote author=olabowale:

Jesus didnt use sword per see, but did his followers used it to cut off an ear! And they were ready to use it though even at their perl, except Jesus thought, uhm, they will be killed to nothingness. By the way, go to the post that I made yesterday where I directed you to Muhammad's miracles by Allah! Am sure you are afraid of the truth, yur reason for not referring to all my references!

what references??lol do you know how many people were following jesus at every point in time,i analysed this for you with zacheus the tax collector,in spite of his societal standing who couldnt get near to jesus because of the surging crowd,now imagine the number of crowd,that will not allow a minister in nigeria,to come close to a man of GOD,and you think jesus followers could not overpower a few armed men and religious leaders?you must be naive,did he not tell judas he will betray him?to show you he had fore knowledge yet he took no steps to protect himself,if you read that part of the bible there was a time he was alone and told the other disciples to stay back,is that the action of a scared man who knew he was going to be seized shortly?how many men constantly surrounded mohammad? , i havnt checked,trust me i will even though i am sure it is still part of the fraud contrived to convince the gullibles, let us even assume he did,how come you his followers are not replicating nd repeating his supposed miracles if it is not all lies??

if you ask me the same question,i will answer you by showing you numerous men and women of GOD doing the same miracles jesus did,to show you that it was true?
[quote author=olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4644085#msg4644085 date=1254354268]
I have 4 nieces born in the north. My Igbo wife speaks hausa fluently. Its you who is a darn tribalist here. I will survive in the community of Muslims, anywhere on earth. Take that to the bank! I will put my wife in the front with Igbo mainly Catholic people, I guess $Osisi, in her protestants' ways is a minority there just like me!

abegi jare!!tribalism is not enough reasion for retrogression they have brought upon nigeria,but that is for another section(politics)

olabowale:

There is a lot of Muslims in China, over 80 to 100 Million people. You must be a great international politics student! Not! And before Oil, Makka and Madina will always be wealthy and supported by the worldwide body of Muslims. And Petrochemical industries will always be in need of Oil, forget the AUTOMOTIVE usage for a moment! Chemical engeering my friend; Polymers, and more petrochemical usages! As long as there is mankind on earth, the Dua of Ibrahim thats already been accepted will not let Makka Suffer and Madina by extension will not suffer! I have a joke of Jewish people for you; they always blame Moses for not turning just an angle slightly from what he took, they would have became the owners of rich oil fields! You dont know any Jew, if you do, ask him!

can you show me proof of the 80-100 million muslims in china?ill be waiting thanks, before oil,can you show me or educate me on what they had that made them as rich as they are now sire?
again,i repeat,in case you dont know or are being naively ignorant of it,saudi arabia is the backbone of islamic evangelism the world over,if they have a dip in their resources,whicvh is bound to happen the global islamic world will feel it, the likes of uae are getting increasingly liberal due to western influences,of course mecca will not suffer,but the millions of dollars going all over the world to propagate islam will suffer greatly,dont forget while this is going on christians are getting richer,and pushing the gospel further afield,you can see that almost all the great men of GOD have their own private jets now?thats telling you we are pushing our gospels without the help of any country,why dont you muslims try it without saudi arabia?
well,the oil has not greatly helped you,because where most of the saudi oil money goes evangelizing are turning to christianity,places like africa,and the far east,as for the jews take a look at what they have and then compare it to the miserable chicken change of oil money,is saudi arabia richer than america and israel together?thats your answer now add pentecostal christians the wolrd over who will undoubtedly supportt the jews if push comes to shove.

olabowale:

Between you and me, I prostrate my face to One Illah. When I talk to my God, it is One Creator, Al Illah (ALLAH)! You on the other hand, regardless of your "born again" mantra, you kneel to 3 gods; Father on a chair, Jesus on a cross, and a ghost with no name or Identity! When you pray you say to father, oand add son, but never mention ghost, yet you say they are all your gods! No? Now who is the idol worshipper, sncer there is no but One God?

are you sure?because many of you still kill and maim in the name of a mere human being who managed to pull the wool over your eyes,even though he is dead,you still worship the moon and stars which is still over all your mosques,you still use the moon and stars to predict in the advent of computers and satellites showing you are not ready to leave your idolising ways,and you still bow don to an image(tyhe kaabah) you still sacrifice animals to your gods

olabowale:

Am not yanking your chains,and am completely serious. Yanking chain belongs to the days o slavery. But I see you avoiding the Biblical verse "Vengeance is Mine says the Lord," and the info that I gave you concerning the Miracles of Muhammad (AS) by Allah's permission, and am sure you will also ignore the verses and the website that I gave concerning forgives! I know your type man. At least you have the backbone to stand up for you belief, regardless of its defiiency, unlike some Jelly-fish like people! Pele.

if you r not yanking my chain,which actually means kidding me, how come you are inferring that i have not posted several contradictions with proofs on here for you both in form of hadiths and quranic verses?
and i see you avoiding the pertinent questions i have been asking you ever since i joined this thread several years ago,why and how come mohammad was surrounded by so many controversies ,what is with the abrogations and contradictions?why are the women not equal to their male counterparts,i have several questions i have asked begging for answers which you have refused to answer,instead you dance around it and come up with other issues to confuse and run away from it.

you know and i know sire that your islam has more questions than answers,

let us leave everything and concentrate on one assertion,

you said mohammad performed many miracles,for the sake of this assertion let us agree,how come nobody in the islamic world has been able to perform the same miracles ever since he died??

in our bible,jesus christ promised that we will do the same miracles he was doing and more after he left this world,is the prophecy happening now or not?

now,which religion is dead and which is alive? whose god is on an extended lunch break,AND WHOSE GOD IS ALIVE AND PERFORMING?

olabowale:

The Uniqueness of the Quran is underscored by the fact that at the end the Jigsaw puzzle of revelations of verses and chapters, when completed fit to one another perfectly! Surah Anfal fitting with Surah Tauba. I am asking you to tell me where you find discrepancies, a single one, and all you say is "its not arranged in cronological order of revealed verses and chapters!" Thats not a good reason, because a writer can give you the end of his story, a fiction and begin to fill in the gabs, writing the middle part and ending it up with the beginning! The important thing is that the story makes sense when you read it, and the genius of the writer shows when the book is not edited, or versioned, or reedited and even when in paperback still has everything that the hardback has. Finally, the book that can not be dublicated and has a language of its own and when a person makes a mistake the book stops you, makes you conscious of your mistake and until you correct yourself, if you are intentionally making the mistake, you will be tongue tied!

That book is the Quran, still in the ORIGINAL Language the Fusat accented Arabic!

ill just cut to the chase instead of all this rigmarole we v been having, at the risk of repeating myself for the upteenth time, some of the contradictions are as follows in the quran
1.he admitted that raiding traders was indeed a heinous thing,however,his convenient revelations from his allah,said that he is justified,because the meccans persecuted him and his followers while they were in mecca,first of all these traders were not from mecca,but going to mecca,secondly why steal,maim and kill traders even if they were meccans just because they persecuted you"" not killed you?? explain this
2.he told his followers to leav the people of the book if they were not ready to convert to islam e.t.c later he brought out the sword verses,which abrogated all other cordial verses towards other religions,where he enjoined his followers to kill cut off the fingertips of all unbeleivers e.t.c
3.he supported idolatory and even inserted elements of idolatory in islam which is still prevalent till date,yet he contradicted himself by saying his followers should kill polytheists
please address these first,more to come,

who told you that arabic originated from mohammad??you must be a very good scrabble player o and also totally naive and clueless on so many issues, so because it has been used in writing the quran,you have erroneously attributed it to mohammad??
what language was mohammad's parents speaking before he was born?
what language the the quraysh tribe,the jews e.t.c spoke before he was born?
alhaji,alhaji,alhaji alhaji(you know that popular song)
so you agree mohammad only wrote a book of fiction,and filled in the blank spaces,why are we having this long 12 pages debate then?

@Godson2009:

so you dont know what dar al harb territory means??   by the way the crusades had nothing to do with religion,go and read their stories and how they ended up at the top,and then killed off by the king of france, e.t.c

My responsibility is keeping me away from the tons of responses to have for me. I take it that you are so eager to dialogue that you do not let me respond to you before you pile up more respnses.

Thats not how to dialogue. I will respond to what my time permits, but its interesting that you ask for miracles, and I gave you a laundry list, you ask for forgive, I gave you verses and then give you names of people and individuals forgiven, you could not defend what Jesus said about people you turn everything to either over simplifications of the importance of what the entity said, making him excuses that he did not deserve. Can you imagine me making excuses for Muhammad (AS), and since you consider Jesus as God, me making excuses for Allah?

Your process does not wash and I am certain that if your dissertation was like this, and the awarding committe were atheists, you will have to defend you papers hard, but am sure the protestants were happy at your convoluted and anemic presentation!! I will deal with as much as I can, knowing fully well that you avoided all that I gave and including my true to fact that no son can ever be the husband of the Mrs. of his father, hence he is not papa. Abi you know if it can ever be possible in your lifetime and be acceptable in the society without any rolling of the eye, shaking of the head in disgust, and no side talk about it? Are you for real.

is olabowale still telling lies?

yes he is still piling the lies upon lies with a weak defence of his prophet
@olabowale
like i wrote in my last comment,lets cut to the chase with the whole rigmarole and enlighten us about these contradictions pointed out to you,i only respond to the comments you address to me,or would you rather i ignored them instead?
dont worry my dissertation was awesome,as for the miracles of mohammad,i have not really had to=ime to check them out as well because i have a life moreover like i also said in one of my comments to you,why should i believe mohammad if he said he performed miracles?the several contradictions which you have called a work of fiction in your comment is enough proof that he couldn possibly perform a miracle if it stood on his nose and he is no more a prophet than osama bin laden.

forget about the rigmarole and answer these simple and direct contradictions with your mohammad,without confusing issues or using style to back out while trying to place me on the offensive

« #369 on: Today at 06:04:16 PM »

ill just cut to the chase instead of all this rigmarole we v been having, at the risk of repeating myself for the upteenth time, some of the contradictions are as follows in the quran
1.he admitted that raiding traders was indeed a heinous thing,however,his convenient revelations from his allah,said that he is justified,because the meccans persecuted him and his followers while they were in mecca,first of all these traders were not from mecca,but going to mecca,secondly why steal,maim and kill traders even if they were meccans just because they persecuted you"" not killed you?? explain this

Earlier you said Yemeni,until I corrected you! Fela said enu opuro ki seje. The lagos slang in my days is oje marina fese gungo koma seje! How can you be believed?
You lie by the dozens. Raiding, maybe you need to look into your Bible and you will see raides into the communities of Canninites, Jebusites, Hittatites, the people of Jericho and Jerusalemby the Children of Israel who holds your salvation, and Jesus your love, the servant of God, whom He sent was from them! It is human nature to want to take back your stolen or confisticated properties. I dont blame those who will demand their rights back. I dislike Awolowo, the same way my father disliked him and I intensified my dislike for him when in 1973, in family meeting, my older siblings showed proof that Awolowo by eminent domain for the Old Western region took for 5 shillings per hectare large among of land from my father (ra), yet we never got paid, a penny! I am bent even right now, many decades after the fact to get the land back, or sue the estate of Awolowo for his thiefery! How then do you think people, a group who are now powerful not demand for their things back?


You said your father owns a hotel or many. If somebody or group of people snatch it/them from your family, you will be a disgrace not to dislike the "stealing of it" from your heritage! Thats the condition of people. The way people work! Am steal waiting for your proof of the killing, the stealing from the traders, except if you are just just fighting empty for Jesus, who really does not care for you, since you desert his religion and you are not from his nations of children of Israel.

2.he told his followers to leav the people of the book if they were not ready to convert to islam e.t.c later he brought out the sword verses,which abrogated all other cordial verses towards other religions,where he enjoined his followers to kill cut off the fingertips of all unbeleivers e.t.c

I grin, then shake by head. Please show me the verses where people of the Books; Jews and Christians be singled out to be killed of have their fingertips cut off? This is the M. O. of the enemies of Islam; talking emptiness and no subsatnce. I will love to see how you will proof the validity of your allegations.

3.he supported idolatory and even inserted elements of idolatory in islam which is still prevalent till date,yet he contradicted himself by saying his followers should kill polytheists

The Ifa worshippers, and others in Yorubaland, eat Kolanut, drink water. Is there anything in Christianity where they drink water? Now tell me the idolatry that Islam has, when before they started out by disagreeing with idolatry, the very reason the whole of Quraishi of Makka was angry with him and his supporter! I want you to think heard and show matriculated reasoning about this! Could it have been possible for the people to go against him if he showed a sincilla of sign of idolatry? You must be a strange man, unable to be honest in dialoque.



I will respond to every post this weekend. My busy life is keeping me busy for the next few, but will take some time out of the weekend for a thorogh address of your stories.

Even though my dialogue here is not to deride any person's good will that has been recognised, if true, without self agandraisement by any single person, I will dare to compare and elevate Muhammad (AS) in any similar thing done by any entity who has ever walked the surface of this earth!

1). When it comes to the matter of money changing, whereby Jesus of the Bible turned over the table of the dubious exchangers, in order that he stopped them, which was really his effort to "fulfill" the laws of the prophet of old; Moses, etc, Muhammad (AS) in the farewell address said as a lasting and etching the Quranic injuctions, in Surah Baqarah (2 places), Imran, and Nisaa (1 place each), "The Ribah own to "Abbass bin Abi Mutalab, (his uncle making charity begins at home a thing that he practised) is under my foot (never to be paid Abbass (RA).

2). We see that Jesus of the Bible threw a temper tantrum, and am sure the Money excahngers got away from him because he probably scared them, being a younger person, full of raw energy. He probably made enemies out of them, ightly or wrongly, but it is very clear that you do catch more flies by using honey than when you use vinegar with all its tanginess and pungency. Muhammad (AS) was gentle with a man who urinated in the mosque, infront of him and his many companions. He held back the companions who were eager to stop the man, probably beat him for his uncouth behavior. Muhammad asked after the man finished that a companion go throw water on the spot so that the urine is diluted and make the place fit for Salah again, at the same time called the man and gently told him, without blaming him, "Mosque is for three (3) purposes; Salah, recitation of Quran and remembrance as in Dhikr".


Could these man Muhammad (AS) be less than any Messenger/Prophet in humility and in piety to Allah, mercy to people and a comfort to the hearts of people who are sincere in knowing him?

A true Ahadith, and I dare any person to proof me wrong then I will present this noble ahadith: Jibril came to Muhammad with the verse of Quran where Muhammad was confirmed as a means of mercy. Muhammad asked Jibril, Oh Jibril, if ama a mercy, have you benefitted from this mercy? Jibril responded that Oh Muhammad, before you, I used to deliver revelations to the prophets, or the messengers with Books; Jesus, Moses among them, I was always concerned with my firmness in my delivery of message, until Allah says of me and my delivery of messages to you that I am a truthful message carrier from Him to you. It is this verse from my Lord, oh Muhammad (messenger of Allah) that makes my "heart" settles and peaceful that I am doing my job and have received favor and full Mercy from Allah! This is further explained by the fact that Israfil, the one incharge of "blowing the horn" for the last day/begining of judgement, that he remain wide eyed, afraid to blink from the time he was given that responsibility, since he does not have the knowledge of "the Unknon time, a future ting, when Allah will give Command for this time, known Only by He, The Creator." This supports what Jesus said, what Muhammad said, and what Jibril said that the Only One who knows about the "Time of the Hour", is God/Eloi/Oluwa/Obangiji/Chukwu/Allah, alone"!

is olabowale still telling lies?

Learn a lesson or two from "Godson2009". I may not agree with him, and his unfounded assumptions, be has displayed strength, gut and spine in standing up, sticking with the topic! He at least has something to say, and not just saying "does it make sense, and other light weight comments!" He has not taking up the garb of arrogance and stupidity from the others who call people in their fathers age group (born in the 1950s) agbaya, or adodi (a man who raised two well cultured sons in the urban jungle of New York city, and still a husband of wives, and hoping for more children), and silly commentaries, holding grudges for nothing for years, calling a successful business man "Maiguard"; I wonder if there is a man in Nigeria that will employ me so that I can ruin him and his wife or wives divorce him and disgrace him and shame his son who thinks that I could be his father's maiguard?

I will dialogue with anyone with good manners, and I will ignore any, older or younger than me who curses and copy terrible manners from people! Is there a yoruba father in Nigeria or anywhere who is homosexual? I doubt it, not likely and this Olabowale does not fit the picture; My interest in women is against it, my yorubaness is against it, my manhood and manliness is against it, and my Islam is completely against it!

@Godson2009: « #323 on: September 26, 2009, 01:26 PM »

AGAIN,you still dont get it, while i appreciate the fact that everything is a gradual process,especially when learning in life,like you have used the analogy of a 5 yrs old and all that however from what i understand from the quran, mohammad was not a normal human like me and you,he was a prophet![/b] [b]have you heard of the saying, to whom much is given,much is to be expected,if you read the parable of the 10 servants who their master gave money to in the bible you will get an idea of what i am saying,

The gradual weaning is not that of Muhammad (AS), it is of the community. The moment Muhammad became a prophet, then a messenger to mankind, he was making Salah and night salah (Quiyamullail) in Makka, yet salah was not commanded until he arrived in Madina! Proof; you said it yourself that a person threw intestines of animal on him in Kaaba while he was making prostration. By the way he did not kill that person, neither did he kill the poison woman. In Makka you could say that he was weak, but in Madina, he was a leader of a strong community with an army, bold people who can fight, unlike the doubters, the betrayers, and the deniers that you have with the other "son of man", why did he not kill in either case? Godson2009, you make me want to rob salt on your open sore.

Finally, who was the "master" in your parable of the 10 servants and whats the relevancy of it? Is Jesus the master or one of the 10 servants? Is there a parable that Jesus was not part of the characters, by inference, since this is a parable, if you know?

mohammad is meant to be a prophet,getting his prophecies direct from his god,therefore he is to be held liable to any later incorrections,omissions,contradictions e.t.c because he decalred that he was a direct messenger of his god true or false?

abrogation with its progressive improvement of the people is completely a correction leading to perfection of the people, not incorrection of the abrogator, or the abrogation. Omission is not even in play here, because a Ph. D. education is not what you bring to a child who is only qualified to absorb a primary school education; the same situation with a person who used to drink hard and get stupid, now being told to be sober for the period of prayers, to the end product of no more alcohol, which they finally accepted and did not depart from Islam! Contradiction is when you say something and you later take it back with something completely opposite and worse. In the case of Allah to His Messenger (AS), choose any issue and you will see that the progression to the perfect decision of the Almighty is directionally improving, taking a completely decayed heart full of evil, to a heart good to be emulated.

I will illustrate this by the consumption of alcohol. The arabs used to be drunks. Islam took them to a sober state and can anyone drop a vice that they are so used to? Yes. But just drop it in one shot and never go back to it? No. Impossible. Ths is the reason Allah in His wisdom through Muhammad (AS) that the process of delivery of people from bad behavior are in baby steps, as to Allah sayings; Oh Muhammad, be gentle/patient with them, otherwise your community may disperse away from you. And Allah says "We do not abrogate a verse except that it is replaced with a better verse or one of equal value (applicable to the present condition as the obrogated was relevant to the past condition." The yorubas say says when a child is old enough to have a mallet he will have it, when he is old enough to have a cutlass, he should have it, each is age appropriate! This is similar to the generic saying: cutting yur cloth according to your clothe, and your size!

[b]therefore it stands to reason that,the only reason he could have later corrected himself so many times,or nullified and abrogated parts of words that came from his own mouth without any cohersion or intimidation is simply because he either made a series of mistakes in his prophecies and proclamations,which means he is a normal human being like you and i especially considering his other vices, or your allah made mistakes with the prophecies given to mohammad,[/b]in that case mohammad is not at fault,but your allah is hence he is prone to errors,mistakes e.t.c

Where is the smartness in your postulation, above? Allah the Almight reveal messages in Quran to Muhammad (AS), a human being so that other human beings, "ordinary men and women" can follow it, elevating their humanity by these. While these people used to drink, and Muhammad (AS) did not, how do you get them to be like Muhammad (AS), to drop drinking and finally emerged sober and they were the standard for generations of Muslims to follow. Until you can proof that the abrogation did not improve the Muslims, then your argument falls flat. Something about me for example; though I have never drank nor smoked, but I consider myself as a born smoker, at list the cigar or tobacco, in a pipe type. It fits my personality. But because Islam frowns against this thing that could lead to what I will say as "killing me softly" killer, I do not even try it, but developed hatred for it, smell and all! How; I wean myself from it, because I think that it may be my demise in the long run, since I have an older brother who I see what cigarette turned him to as a not fully healthy man!

now i want you to choose one or all of the above,because one or all of them seems to be the only plausible explanation for the contradictions, especially as you have not given any other convincing argument,do you see us using analogy to answer direct questions when talking about christianity?

While Muhammad did not have to be weaned from sexual promiscouity, or drunkenness, or other vices, that the others had to be detox from, in a proverbial "12 Steps", can you see that it is therefore absolute wisdom that te Quran gave them the easiest way out to leave those vices? I personally can relate to this process in my own life; be it in my dawah or relationship with anyone at all. What a person loves, it you wanna stop them from doing it, it has to be in baby step process, and therefore it is patience you must exercise, and feed him or her as appropriate. When you have a baby, the first thing the mother does is put the breast against the babies lips, whereby he is coasted to opening and feed from it. In time it becomes something that she recognised. After few months, he is introduced to other foods, water, and juices. Before long, some semi hard food, mash potatoes, or purees of fruits and others are good example. Finally he eats hard food whereby mom's milk is not important anymore. I bet if you are asked to suckle milk from momnow, or at 5, you would have said no then and definitely no, now. Right? The muslims, and not Muhammad were treated like that; leaving evil of their tribes in a baby steps processs, and moving towards the purity of goodness; Islam, as appropriate.

Few years ago, I met a new muslim who I would not have dicussed women, exual relationship with his girlfriend then, except that he mentioned that he had a girlfriend, she has not known that he was a muslim yet, while he has became aone for say 3 weeks. I had to tell him that Islam does not allow the free sex, and anything goes that happens with other religion, he being Christian before the reversion. Iman had entered his heart enough, since he chose the religion freewill. He accepted my explanation, not telling him to throw the woman out, since i am certain that he must have love for her, but to tell her his new religion, and tell her what the religion speaks about when it comes to sex! Surprising enough, this 21 or2 years old man told his 20 year old girlfriend, who was hindu, and she became a muslim, the following day, and of course she married him. Thank God, Allah the Almighty, who made them accept Islam and they are still together, probably with Children now. They moved to Virginia, and the incident was 2002, after 911!


By the way, I was just listening to news where a family adoted monkeys and call them their daughters. I say to myself, this is an action of the personal desire of these "parents" with "baby monkeys!"

Now transfer that to huma to human relationship! Same as in personal desire of man, the truth is that they do not have "blood relationship!", and it is the blood relationship that can stop people from being sexually involved, or actually where true family relationship can not be doubted. A young man was proposing to his step sister the other day, a thing that will be accepted by people who have wisdom, while his proposal to his blood sister, who was raised separately from him to the point that you will say that they are completely strangers to each other, will definitely be frowned upon for the simple fact that they do have the same blood!

@Godson2009: #351 on: September 30, 2009, 03:37 PM »

abeg go and sit down at the back,are you supposed to be talking as a true muslim woman when the men are talking?go and prepare some food for us to eat,then stay at the backyard behind the curtains with the women like you,to answer your question there is only one credible and truthful account, he committed suicide of his own accord due to the guilty conscience,now go to the back!!

Your education should have let you know that there are Surahs in the Quran that speak about women and their equalities with men. Let me show you one: The Surah that is titled "The woman who argued or dialogue as in speaking out her mind" another is the woman who asked for "divorce" There is only one place that Allah gave information about the man and the woman, because He speaks about their physical strength well known among mankind that man is normally stronger than women. The responsibility of belief lies squarely on the shoulders of each gender 100% irrespective of the other gender! Finally some of the scholars of Islam were Women, and we still have women scholarship in Islam, today. So many confidants of the prophet (AS) were his women companions (RA), as much as the men companions (RA). The first to spend on Islam was a woman (Khadihah (RA)), and the first to be killed for Islam while still in Makka were a couple (RA) Am sure you know that couple in Islam means man and woman combo odf Husband and Wife? Uplawal, so nko to wu e o jere. Women are the protector of men from illicit sex, and I know that if my wife prays in front of me, there is no way I will not long for her. I am protected by her for her not praying in front of me, thank Allah for this mercy. Am sure that nudity of pretty women does not affect Godson2009, because he has the blood covering him!

that is not the point,stop confusing yourself,you said jesus had no right to scatter the money lenders in the synagogue because he didnt build it,and i asked you if you built the kaaba as well,for you to defend its perceived desecration if it happens, it is not a matter of who is human and who isnt,jesus christ came in form of a normal human being,but with supernatural powers which he only used when need be to propagate the gospel,or feed people,now in answer to your comment especially the last four or five lines,does the fact that his religion was not reffered to mean anything?
if you want to see why we identify with him,then go and read the new testament,i will give you specific chapters if you want,including one where he said he did not come for only the jews but the gentiles and everyone else,he always took the m,ain all through the bible to make it known that he was for everybody and died for alll our sins

Forget reading your Bible. I had enough of it in High School, and hanging around varieties of Christians. Listen, if you use me to illustrate the position of biblical Jesus, I am honored but not worthy, so let the cup pass over this Olabowale. And referencing that is accurate is very relevant and means alot, considering that it gives identity to the source. The reason Islam stands above all are two folds; Unlike Christianity, the prophet identified with islam practised the same religion as his followers. The second fold is referencing the Judaism, as a tribal religion, while islam is not baed on any tribe. Finally, in grouping the Jews and Christians together in their deficiency vis a vis Islam is that they are man made, and neither Musa nor Isa was a Jew or a Christian respectively, and Muhammad was a Muslim. Each of these three people (AS) prostrated their faces to Allah their Creator! Muslims still do that. There are still Jewish sect and Christian sect which are still prostrating, today, and it is clear to me that Jesus and his disciples didnot clap hand like the sugar hill gang "rap song of the 1970s", and there was no live bands and organ playing either, and this is what we have of Christianity today :dancing "Mukulu mukele, " (Lol). How you develop your doctrine and service protocol, are on you, and Jesus bin Mariam has nothing to do wit it.

[Quote]no sire,i disagree with you,my family were conservative anglicans,i am a born again christian,as for islam,i dont need to prove anything to you,at the risk of sounding my own horn,i think the few direct comments i.e verses have stood me in good stead as to my knowledge of your islam,on the flip side however,it has been like easy due to the amount of inconsistencies i found or read, didnt your own quran say that allah abrogates because of his infinite widom?
yet when it comes to the real truth of immaculate conception,you have difficulty in accepting it, i will use the same quranic verse to answer you,are you wiser than GOD?
is there anything GOD is incapable of doing?so why are you suprised?[/quote]You hined your argument on Immaculate conception. What is immaculate conception?Is that enough to call a man GOD? I am asking myself, where is it that Quran denies that Jesus son of Mary was a child without a human father? It is you christians who will on one hand call Mary a virgin but say on the other hand, Joseph the carpenter got her pregnant with two additional sons, and claiming this man as the step father of Jesus, which am assuming that you must know that the Jewish tribal man will have sex with his wife. No? Ten tell me how she is still a virgin!

Islam takes the opposite condition on this. Islam said what is appropriate, but Christianity said the opposite, from their own argument, as if they say a man is now a woman; same situation because what makes a man are different from what makes a woman a woman; each are different and separate!

im sure you will agree with me,that because your mother or indeed your family converted doesnt count much in the ultimate and general scheme of things,how many hundreds of thousand of muslims are converting to christianity right now,we both know that they are converting everyday, for various reasons especially in the western world and nigeria/ghana and other parts of  west africa,what you have just related was in the old testament,now jesus christ who died for us is the bridge between us and  the father GOD,that is why he said no one can go to the father except through him,we have dropped the blood and animal sacrifice because we dont need it anymore,all we need do,is to kneel down and pray for forgiveness good for your room mate and your mum,but i still maintain that based on all you have written,so far and your interpretation of the bible,plus the way you obviously mix and confuse the verses/chapters,the best is a rudimentary knowledge of the bible,after glossing over it,you have not studied the bible yet,and with all due respect,if your room mate faults what i and others have been writing,then i will challenge him,or anyone to show me the copy of the bible they r using,just like uplawal,with all due respect you have to admit,your mum at best was a sunday sunday christian,not a born again and broken christian,pls show me one single really born again and broken christian who has converted to islam?i have mentioned three core islamic believers who have converted to full time ministry,that is not mentioning friends

If my mother and others in my life are not evidential enough, I am sure the Africans who are converting to Christianity do not do it for you. But wait a minute, I know that Americans, Whites, Spanish, others and Blacks, who are muslims and more are on the way must amount to something. No? Then how about the European whites? You must have seen some in UK! NO? Then look hard man. Stop selling a dead issue. Your father is a Hotelier in Nigeria. He is a Yoruba man and claiming that you have another father, should upset everyone. I know if Lai or Dunwo were to come up on me to announce another father somewhere, I will have to sue their Mom for not telling them who is daddy, with all the look alive and no possibility of another man getting to her, in the days! Lol. My mother was a better Christian in the days that any Christianity you will ever attain, even if you become a 10 times born again. Proof; to have been my father's wife and she did not convert was a major fit, with the fact that she raised children, kind enough to make my Ramadan meals. She cooked and eat the pork, like good Christians, and cooked the Frijole, I think every "good Friday!" But by Allah, am happy that she left Christianity and my responsibility is to shower her the more with the best a child can do for a mother!

I had met many born again, including Nuns; both white and black who are now Muslim; Sheikh Yusuf Estes is one of them. He is the operator of www.Islamtoday.com!

again you are getting it wrong,most of your questions on these forums have been a wrong interpretation of the bible either deliberately or not, the easiest way to say this is that jesus christ would have called only sinners and wicked people names,in spite of that he would forgive them totally and unreservedly once they can admit to their sins and ask for forgiveness with a promise that they will go and sin no more, is that condition not fair enough?
he chased money changers,selling birds and stuffs out of the temple, imagine oshodi or lagos island,inside a supposedly holy place,now a random man comes and volunteers to upturn the chaotic situation,without thinking of his own safety,he could be mugged or beaten yet he didnt care about the pain,as what he allowed himself to go through later at crucifiction indicates, what did mohammad do at the hint of impending harmhe ran away to another city,with his tail between his legs, you dont know the meaning of violent temper sire, anger at the desecration of an holy place,is different from violent temper,which is what mohammad normally has like the time he was soo enraged with a poet and leader Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf killed/assasinated, go and check it out,he even paid blood money in compensation,a prophet supposedly holy and who muslims are to emulate??

Should there be an interpretation at all, from the Bible? Okay let me test your knowledge: Interprete these two sets of verses and show me what each set really means: Mark 12 verse 29: Hear yea oh Israel, your God and my God is but One Lord. The other is I and my father are One. These two are reported to come from the lips of Jeus, yet completely 180 degrees from each other. The other is from Act which says Jesus your servant who You sent and the other was the there are three that bear witness in heaven, father son and ghost. Now, tell me the interpretations.

I thought the Governor of Lagos state is cleaning up Lagos, and who appointed Jesus to chase out the moey exchangers? Lol. The crucifixion indicated differently; he did not grin and bear it, since he cried out; Eloi, Eloi, and not my father my father, a complete proof his postion regardless of what you say about the situation! Did Muhammad (AS) suffer less than anyone in history? hardly and remember you called him a "killer, a warmonger, etc?" Would a man like that be such a person who ran away and yet you have said that the arabs are warmongers. No? See in the long run Muhammad (AS) as his bold followers prevailed. Thats strategem of war. And kindness of Muhammad remained when people urinated in the mosque, in Madina where Muhammad (AS) was not a weakling but a very strong leader! I already entered the story in an explanation, and you can research it and compared it the best situation of any man you can imagine!

i agree with you,but homosexuality is more prone in the middle east and amongst middle easterns,same thing as alcohol consumption in spite of their islamic religion, the bible trells me too that if somone slaps my cheek,to turn the other cheek,if i am offended to forgive,the bible tells me that i should love my enemy and pray for them,and also that irrespective of whatever biblical knowl;edge or annointing,the greatest and most important edict of the lord we must obey is to love one another, not fellow christians but every body unlike islam which calls ome people apes and pigs,vile dogs and warns muslims not to make friends with non muslims

In my days, Yinka Rose was probably the only homosexuals that i know in Yorubaland! Today, I have been told there are many in my yorubaland, with all the pretty iyabos and yemisis around without "husbands"! Can you believe that? Even igbo men are now into it, a people who known here in the USA to be "to the last penny spender." We must never forget that middle east is ingabitted by Muslims, Christians, Jews and others. So the homosexuality in middle east can even be expected rightly or wrongly on the Muslims, but I guarantee you, the Christians and Jews are not without their proportionate share. More over, a person can be accused wrongly, and I have been accused here on Nairaland. Alhamdulillah I love Islam enough to ignore it and not show that I could never be it to the speaker; seeing is always believing!

Finally all the slapping you cant tell me that you will ignore a huge wrestler and foolishly turn the other cheek. If you loose your hearing or get damaged by the hand of this man hitting your face. The rest of your being better than Jesus is not true; Jesus did not forgive the other thief on the cross who offended him. Jesus did not forgive, pray, or love any of his enemies; The Money changers, the betrayer, thethief on the cross, and definitely the tree he killed! You must be a better person than Jesus, based on your stella quality!

,by the way what did they steal from him??

olabowale:

« #369 on: Today at 06:04:16 PM » Earlier you said Yemeni,until I corrected you! Fela said enu opuro ki seje. The lagos slang in my days is oje marina fese gungo koma seje! How can you be believed?
You lie by the dozens. Raiding, maybe you need to look into your Bible and you will see raides into the communities of Canninites, Jebusites, Hittatites, the people of Jericho and Jerusalemby the Children of Israel who holds your salvation, and Jesus your love, the servant of God, whom He sent was from them! It is human nature to want to take back your stolen or confisticated properties. I dont blame those who will demand their rights back. I dislike Awolowo, the same way my father disliked him and I intensified my dislike for him when in 1973, in family meeting, my older siblings showed proof that Awolowo by eminent domain for the Old Western region took for 5 shillings per hectare large among of land from my father (ra), yet we never got paid, a penny! I am bent even right now, many decades after the fact to get the land back, or sue the estate of Awolowo for his thiefery! How then do you think people, a group who are now powerful not demand for their things back?


You said your father owns a hotel or many. If somebody or group of people snatch it/them from your family, you will be a disgrace not to dislike the "stealing of it" from your heritage! Thats the condition of people. The way people work! Am steal waiting for your proof of the killing, the stealing from the traders, except if you are just just fighting empty for Jesus, who really does not care for you, since you desert his religion and you are not from his nations of children of Israel.

have you even been reading my replies to you at all?because there is no indication of such in your replies, you said it was not yemeni traders going to mecca,and i stood by my comments even expanciating on the circumstances surrounding it,and then going into the battle of badr just so that you understand i know the difference,so what are you on about??

show me where prophets in the bible refused to do an honest days job,and instead decided to go all out raiding innocent traders without any just cause,and then using a weak justification of earlier persecution of these trader's businee partners,how lame an excuse ,

it might be human nature to want to recover stolen properties,but like i said before and i repeat,NOBODY STOLE MOHAMMAD'S PROPERTIES,the only reason for his raiding is simply layziness and the criminal tendencies inherent in him,by the way what did they steal from him??more contradictions lol,in the quranic verse i posted for you to read,he asserted that his reason,his only reason for attacking the sucessive traders is because of the meccan's persecution of him and his followers,in another breadth you are here contradicting him again that they stole his properties now who is the alhaji fabu lous like your sister uplawal will say, i laugh in shorthand what proof are you waiting for,how many times will i post the same quranic verses for you oare you bespectacled??maybe agba tinde

olabowale:

I grin, then shake by head. Please show me the verses where people of the Books; Jews and Christians be singled out to be killed of have their fingertips cut off? This is the M. O. of the enemies of Islam; talking emptiness and no subsatnce. I will love to see how you will proof the validity of your allegations.

i dont have time for stories anymore,il give it to you straight from now on,
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

i said christians,jews and polytheists,read my comments again and stop trying to confuse issues, now that i have given you proof,im waiting fr my own proof too of 80-100 million muslims in china amongst all the other proofs im waiting for

olabowale:

The Ifa worshippers, and others in Yorubaland, eat Kolanut, drink water. Is there anything in Christianity where they drink water? Now tell me the idolatry that Islam has, when before they started out by disagreeing with idolatry, the very reason the whole of Quraishi of Makka was angry with him and his supporter! I want you to think heard and show matriculated reasoning about this! Could it have been possible for the people to go against him if he showed a sincilla of sign of idolatry? You must be a strange man, unable to be honest in dialoque.

no it doesnt,even christians eat kolanut,however the idolatory of islam is
1.relying on the moon and stars for when to start fasting e.t.c not stopping at that,you proudly display the moon and stars on your mosque
2.bowing down not only in the direction of an image(kaabah) but saving up for a lifetime,just to go to mecca,to actually go and perform pagan rituals of throwing stones at an image,bowing down to it e.t.c
3.animal sacrifice, wonder what that has to do with prayers
4.performing ritual like activities before praying, washing hands feet, e.t.c

there are still more,

@Godson2009: « #352 on: September 30, 2009, 04:04 PM »  

hmmn i see,dont worry i will do if i am given the research job i am pursuing on terrorism in africa, in the same vein i will enjoin you to read the niv version of the bible,it is in clear and easy to understand english,rather than the kjv or new kjv,i only know of one bible where it says jesus is the son of GOD,and tells me that he died for my sins,e.t.c any other bible you know i suggest you discard them,the voice or the way it sounds is not the bone of contention here,but the truth and falsehood contained therein is what  matters,the fact that  sina peters is good to hear or obesere and the others doesnt divorce the fact that they have vulgar lyrics

I will wait till the revision is completed and the publishing company put it up for sale! lol! Can you imagine how the Catholics buying your propoal to me, as above? ~Lady~, standup  for your right. I will standup for the catholics, for 2 valid reasons; the first is that the protestants plagiarised it. And the second is that I have a swiss friend for over 23 years, almost like a brother. He is a catholic. Then Dr Valentine Okeke is a catholic and Sophia Kondor is also one! To go back to the "bone of contention", I find falsehood in your Bible, and i have shown them; Jesus said he is a no God by say he and his listeners, the whole of "Israel" not nigerians, etc have just one God and Lord. Then he said he and father are One. Whats up with that?

Another is that they called him a mere good teacher, and he said why call me good, and made it clear that God is the One who is Good. How can he be God with this opinion from him, versus the one from Paul and the gang, saying he is God?

What about the Acts 4 verses 25/30 that clearly show that he is a servant, while those who never saw him, knew him say equivocally that he is God. Who is correct? Lol!

What about his saying God God, when you guys are saying it is father father? I am tired of your getting your Bible down pack, and you are dealing with Quran! As I have stated, your research is for the unintelligent. And you are on your may to becoming an ORIENTALIST!

another  dodging of questions, so hadiths are only authentic,as long as they dont reveal the hidden secrets and contradiction of your mohammad,lol  you see the duplicity already in your quran?how will you know he said or didnt say it if you wernt there?everything you are working on is solely based on "it cant have been" it isnt so based on the say so of this and that", even the quran itself shows this confusion because it is neither arranged numerically or chronologically, it is not arranged according to the way the prophecy came bringing in further confusions,in fct the book should be aptly named"the book of confusion"
a non believer can pick up a copy of the bible and at least read with basic comprehension,not so the quran you have to start from the back,and even the ones where u start from the front is soo confusing,

Again Quran has more authority than ahadith. Muhammad is the human embodiment of Quran. If an ahadith  goes against Quran, it must go against Muhammad! And by the way popularity is not what makes honesty. 1 person may be correct while a million take the position of wrong. The one who is correct is on the Side Of GOD ALMIGHTY! Thats the beginning of how you will get any understanding. At least you have humility, and this I personally give you. Finally chronological arrangement as you think does not happen in Islam is a very good evidence of the correctnes of Quran. Take two chapters and see how they flow to eac other.

i am tired of this abrogation thing you keep dodging from,it is not replace by a better verse
are you saying the sword verses,is better than verses such as no compulsion in islam,and the defensive jihad verse? you see the crass duplicity and contradiction in your book of confusion??

Let me make it easy for you. If a man intend to fight me, I am entitled to fight him. This is not abrogated. If a man is not a muslim, and he is not intending to stop me from Islam, then the verse no compulsion in religion applies to him. Two people two complete situatios! I explained to you about drinking liqour. A drunk when he becomes Muslim, will do a 12 steps to weaning from alcohol. Now thats abrogation, because there are verses saying drinking is to be avoided when prayers are to be entered. That was the beginning of Iman. Then when Iman enters hard, they do not drink, because they are commanded to drop strong drinks. Is that too difficult to understand?

i see so if by 100 years from now extra terrestials start living on earth with humans,your generations have the right to further tune and shift the quran to suit their purposes?lol lol

In the Quran, there is a Chapter called "Jinn; UFO, extraterristral. Then there is a section of the Quran that talks about the Jinn listening to Muhammad (AS) after the people of Taif had stoned him. They heard him recite Surah ArRahman, I think. This portion is in Surah "Gahffir" in the Haa Miim Surah group, before Surah Muhammad (AS)! Islam knows that there is extraterrestral beings and Shaitan, formerly Iblis is from tem! He was not a falling angel.

im sure you know that the bible has been intact and will always b till the end of time we have only one bible,but different interpretations,to see the complete bible,just type biblegateway on your computer and it ll show you the whole translations there are, no confusion, no seperate hadiths or something from GOD know who.

Interpretations you said? Show me a true Bible, from amongs just this list: NIV, RKJV, KJV, The Mormons, Douwy? You know NIV is doing a revision in USA? Separate the translations and give me the Original Bible! Just one of them.

lol i see,so you agree then?maybe you gys need to make your quran user friendly first of all  
secondly.to remove the cloud of duplicity that has been associated with the book of confusion,show everyone you have nothing to hide,both your negatives and pocsitives,like we have done, you can go into any hotel and pick up a bible where you will find the positives and the old testament negatives,all inclusive and finally the coming of jesus to right the wrongs e.t.c

OT is now negative, the book that Jesus of the Gospel says I don not come to abrogate the Laws and Prophets? Wow! Quran does not need to be accepted by everyone to be correct. It is not a book tat is begging people to read it, and purity is the Key word here! The Bible is not pure, and the Revelation Books, even if I ignore the Acts, are evidents of the fact that Jesus' "it is finish" statatement really is not true, because it was not finished! When Jesus said he came not to abrogate the laws and the prophets, least in the kingdon of heaven" versus the compresed one liner of the whole of the OT to "Love your God with all your heart, and the neighbors like yourself" is a complete opposition to each other! Which one is correct?

if anyone is fostering agendas,it is the muslims whose angenda is to forcefully convert all non muslims,to islam and kill these unwilling to accept

Brother man, if you could see me shaking my head with a frowning of face as if I am catching a cold, from your intentionally bending the reality of truth, because you know the people bent on converting the Muslims today are the Christians; Afghanistan, Iraq and on Youtube, there is a slew of videos on "Christian missionary atrocities!" Watch and let me know how you like Christianity? George Bush was in one, talking about "CRUSADE", and you have the boldness to deny Crusade as a Christian thing? Are the Catholics not Christians? Is George Bush not a Christian? Wow!

Lets agree on something here! I will let you resond to me post. Then when you are finished, I will respond to you. I think thats how to dialogue. Your piling up to me, seems to be a way to deceive. This is my second time tell you this. More importantly, you do not even approach the core of my statemet about Mhammad. I wonder why?