there is no honour among thieves.
the beast has succeeded in making us slaves inour own father's house.
if he creates 6,000 jobs, how many people did he kill? how many marriages did he destroy?
in praising such beasts, one must be able to compare and contrast in other to know the differences.
those armed robbers that rob and kill people, take away their belongings, patronise prostitutes who are nigerians too must be praised alongside obj for they have created job opportunities too to the prostitutes who are also nigerians.
we must learn to know and accept the fact that a thief is a thief unless we decide to address one thief as a patrotic thief.
obasanjo is crime nigerians are not ready to forgive ibb of in a haste. abacha's inability to erase obj while in power was as a result of our prayers and pleadings which is a crime against ourselves.
had it been, abacha deleted obj then, who knows, nigeria would have been a better place today.

@chidichris

What I have noticed on this thread is that many people, for whatever reason—maybe out of desperation to see good, whether it be from a thief, are overly exhilarated by the news of the creation of 6,000 jobs to the extent that they are willing to ignore and sanitize Obasanjo’s egregious conduct—stealing at least $16b from the national treasury; other people, on the other hand, probably because of Nigeria’s history of atrocious and glaring corruption, are understandably hurt and emotional-- to the point that this emotion has clouded their ability to digest logic and  have thus created a blanket rule that will offend even the most simplest, well reasoned comparative economic analysis. I felt the following questions will, hopefully, reconcile some of these conflicting views.
Q: Whether looting should be condoned under any circumstances?

A: No. Any subsequent acts by the looter should neither condone nor sanitize the prior conduct of looting.
Q: Whether investing any portion of the looted funds in the local economy either legitimizes or legalizes the looted funds?
A: Investing any portion of the looted funds should neither legitimize nor legalize the prior conduct of looting.
Q: Whether the percentage of looted funds that was invested into the economy should be should be employed in determining if the looter should be applauded for his?
A: No. A looter can be commended relative to percentage of funds he invested into the local economy, but that same looter should be berated for stealing in the same breath.
Q: Whether keeping the looted funds in a local account is better than keeping the looted funds in an overseas account?
A: under comparative economic analysis, it makes more sense to have looted funds kept locally rather than in an overseas account.

Q: Whether creating jobs with a portion of the looted funds is better than not creating any jobs at all?
A: Under comparative economic analysis, creating 6,000 jobs—even with looted funds—is better than not creating any jobs at all. The impoverished who have been provided with an opportunity to earn an income will appreciate that job.


Q: Whether former officers who looted funds and who either invested a portion of those of funds in the local economy or stored the funds in a local bank should be commended or exempted from prosecution?
A: It is practically conceivable to commend someone for creating the jobs while berating that same person for stealing money. It is synonymous to a criminal who kidnaps a little girl with the intent to rape and kill her but has a change of heart and returns the victim unharmed, and Courts usually reward them by giving them a lessened sentence. The alleged kidnapper can be commended for returning the girl but that by no means exculpates the alleged kidnapper from his wrongdoing. Obasanjo can be commended for creating 6,000 jobs and at the same time berated for stealing money, and he should also be prosecuted. Again, under comparative economic analysis, it is better to create 6,000 jobs in your own country rather than investing that money overseas, like some Nigerian thieves who are using stolen funds to construct skyscrapers in Dubai.

OBJ the Biggest Looter,

How much is he paying his workers,

@@@@@@

#6000/yrs?

#80,000/mth

obj clearify plz

i always know OBj is simply an old slowpoke

Somebody had only 20,000 naira in his bank account in 1998, in 2009 he has a multi million dollar company with a staff size 6000 people. Nigeria sef

Q: Whether former officers who looted funds and who either invested a portion of those of funds in the local economy or stored the funds in a local bank should be commended or exempted from prosecution?
A: It is practically conceivable to commend someone for creating the jobs while berating that same person for stealing money. It is synonymous to a criminal who kidnaps a little girl with the intent to rape and kill her but has a change of heart and returns the victim unharmed, and Courts usually reward them by giving them a lessened sentence. The alleged kidnapper can be commended for returning the girl but that by no means exculpates the alleged kidnapper from his wrongdoing. Obasanjo can be commended for creating 6,000 jobs and at the same time berated for stealing money, and he should also be prosecuted. Again, under comparative economic analysis, it is better to create 6,000 jobs in your own country rather than investing that money overseas, like some Nigerian thieves who are using stolen funds to construct skyscrapers in Dubai.

@ Princek12  A suicide bomber enters a restaurant filled with people. But before blowing up everybody he asks the old people in the restaurant to leave then subsequently blows up himself and everyboldy else left in the restaurant. Kudos must be given to him for allowing the aged people in the restaurant leave/live, it shows he has respect. If there were more suicide bombers like that in the world, it will definitetly be a better place. sameway, if there were more looters like obj then Nigeria would be a better place.

Using economics to justify corruption. I just dont get it 

A suicide bomber enters a restaurant filled with people. But before blowing up everybody he asks the old people in the restaurant to leave then subsequently blows up himself and everyboldy else left in the restaurant. Kudos must be given to him for allowing the aged people in the restaurant leave/live, it shows he has respect. If there were more suicide bombers like that in the world, it will definitetly be a better place. sameway, if there were more looters like obj then Nigeria would be a better place. Grin

Using economics to justify corruption. I just dont get it

@ Bidemi12
You know what, if there were suicide bombers like the ones who spared the older people, the world will be a better place than if there exists only suicide bombers who killed every one and spared no one, and of course the world will be a much better place if there were no suicide bombers at all. After all, some lives were still spared, and the lesser of two evils is better than the greater of the two evils, but of course we wish for no evil at all. Simple logic and reality, absent judgment clouded by emotion.

@princek12 It is as if i am arguing with rush limbaugh and glenn beckman. I still dont know why this is so hard to understand. You do not utter words of encouragement to an illegal act. God!!! In fact i give up. Poverty/madness/brainwashing has won.

Princek12:

A suicide bomber enters a restaurant filled with people. But before blowing up everybody he asks the old people in the restaurant to leave then subsequently blows up himself and everyboldy else left in the restaurant. Kudos must be given to him for allowing the aged people in the restaurant leave/live, it shows he has respect. If there were more suicide bombers like that in the world, it will definitetly be a better place. sameway, if there were more looters like obj then Nigeria would be a better place. Grin

Using economics to justify corruption. I just dont get it

@ Bidemi12
You know what, if there were suicide bombers like the ones who spared the older people, the world will be a better place than if there exists only suicide bombers who killed every one and spared no one, and of course the world will be a much better place if there were no suicide bombers at all. After all, some lives were still spared, and the lesser of two evils is better than the greater of the two evils, but of course we wish for no evil at all. Simple logic and reality, absent judgment clouded by emotion.

Thank you, you have said it even better.

Evil is evil before God. No greater or smaller.

@alloy emeka Thank you. you have said it even better.

@Aloy~Emeka, bidemi12

You see this is the general mentality of Nigerians like i use to say over and over.

This scenario is what used to happen when policemen started collecting money from commercial vehicle drivers, the passengers use to justify it being that the policemen stand under the sun all day, and giving them =N=5 was nothing compared to what they are doing.  These people forgot that, it is what the policemen were employed to do and are being paid for.  Now every major road mostly in south nigeria you have policemen in some places even at close intervals of 500m just to collect money and we are now crying, this happens right in front of police stations (toll gates).

Go to ministries you hear the slogan "where man work na there him dey chop". the same scenario is on, if you want to conduct any official business after paying the official amount you are required to part with some extra money for the hardworking officals.

Just take a look everywhere, you will see what I'm telling you.

Now the new kid on the block is "steal and invest it in Nigeria then you are justified"

and some morons will come and preach to me to see the positives in Nigeria to make things better.

Is this not the same thing the whole African continent had been accusing the colonial master of doing, stealing from them and using to develop their countries and later giving peanuts as aids to further enslave Africa?

Why are we then asking for reparations?

@agitator  Nice one. The worse part now is using economics to justify corruption. When you go to other threads you will notice that the psychy of the average Nigerian has gradualy been tuned to believe that there is nothing wrong with corruption anymore. Madness.

A suicide bomber enters a restaurant filled with people. But before blowing up everybody he asks the old people in the restaurant to leave then subsequently blows up himself and everyboldy else left in the restaurant. Kudos must be given to him for allowing the aged people in the restaurant leave/live, it shows he has respect. If there were more suicide bombers like that in the world, it will definitetly be a better place. sameway, if there were more looters like obj then Nigeria would be a better place. Grin

Using economics to justify corruption. I just dont get it

@ Bidemi12
You know what, if there were suicide bombers like the ones who spared the older people, the world will be a better place than if there exists only suicide bombers who killed every one and spared no one, and of course the world will be a much better place if there were no suicide bombers at all. After all, some lives were still spared, and the lesser of two evils is better than the greater of the two evils, but of course we wish for no evil at all. Simple logic and reality, absent judgment clouded by emotion.

OK that's it I can't take it any longer. THIS IS MADNESS!!!!.   What in the world is wrong with you people? A suiside bomber is a murderer irrespective of whether he kills old or young people. And such people don't deserve to live. Take this practical hypothetical example. If i steal your money and use a tenth of it to buy you a gift do I deserve to be commended? If your answer to that is yes then I will steal your money again and again and again and again. But if you cut if the hand that causeth me to sin  I will not ever try it again even if I know I won't be caught. I only want to believe that some people still commending OBJ in this thread are just in denial. They don't want to accept the fact that they were  wrong initially.

Princek12:

A suicide bomber enters a restaurant filled with people. But before blowing up everybody he asks the old people in the restaurant to leave then subsequently blows up himself and everyboldy else left in the restaurant. Kudos must be given to him for allowing the aged people in the restaurant leave/live, it shows he has respect. If there were more suicide bombers like that in the world, it will definitetly be a better place. sameway, if there were more looters like obj then Nigeria would be a better place. Grin

Kudos must be given to him for allowing the aged people in the restaurant leave/live with the nightmares and the guilt that they did not sit there and die rather than watch their grandchildren and greatgrands die in their place?

Dude, may I suggest therapy of some sort cause what you have above is some seriously WHACKED reasoning.

Princek12:
Using economics to justify corruption. I just dont get it

@ Bidemi12
You know what, if there were suicide bombers like the ones who spared the older people, the world will be a better place than if there exists only suicide bombers who killed every one and spared no one, and of course the world will be a much better place if there were no suicide bombers at all. After all, some lives were still spared, and the lesser of two evils is better than the greater of the two evils, but of course we wish for no evil at all. Simple logic and reality, absent judgment clouded by emotion.

If there were suicide bombers like the one, the world would be a better place?? So it is all now about the people you kill? If you kill youngings and leave the old, you are better? Since when did the world develop this ranking for suicide bombers?? See me see wahala oo!!! What kind of simple logic and reality is this??

@rells2 and kobojunkie  Like i said, stick around, you aint seen nothing yet my friends. Soon we'll rationalizing incest, genocide etc. Naija is wonderful.

Kobojunkie:


Kudos must be given to him for allowing the aged people in the restaurant leave/live with the nightmares and the guilt that they did not sit there and die rather than watch their grandchildren and greatgrands die in their place?  

Dude, may I suggest therapy of some sort cause what you have above is some seriously WHACKED reasoning.



If there were suicide bombers like the one, the world would be a better place?? So it is all now about the people you kill? If you kill youngings and leave the old, you are better? Since when did the world develop this ranking for suicide bombers?? See me see wahala oo!!! What kind of simple logic and reality is this??

Why do you take half of my statement and turn it around. Can't you understand. It was a comparison, in case you don't know. Geez!! na waa for some people.

You guys should put your emotion aside and reason. The hypo was thrown out comparing two suicide bombers, and the comparison was between the two types of suicide bombers, that the world would be better if suicide bombers who killed a few exists than suicide bombers who killed all. You said since when did the world develop this ranking for suicide bombers? Well, you won't know because you are not in a field of law, and you apparently are not apt to get it. For your info, there is a ranking for varying degrees of crime; for example, in the U.S. you have first degree, second degree, third degree, then manslaughter, and so on, of course depending on the varying degrees of maliciousness. There is a difference between someone who kills one hundred or thousands  or millions of people, i.e., Hitler and warlords who commit genocide, and some heffer who shoots and kills one person. If you guys cannot get that, then I can't discuss with you, for you guys do not want to reason.

I never justified corruption with economics; what I said was that corruption is wrong and should not be tolerated, but that, comparatively, a looter who stores and invests money at home is better than a looter who stores and invests the looted funds overseas. If you can't get that, then I can't help you guys.

You guys act as though corruption exists only in Nigeria. There is corruption on every part of the globe, but the only difference in corruption in Nigeria is that (1) the corrupt folks in Nigeria when caught are not being prosecuted; (2) the corrupt folks in Nigeria usually store the looted funds in off-shore accounts, thereby benefiting a foreign land; (3) the corrupt folks in Nigeria usually invest the money overseas; (4) and the corrupt folks in Nigeria loot an excessive amount of funds. Unfortunately, Nigeria suffers from all four problems, but Nigeria would a whole lot better than it is if it at least suffered from only the first problem, but, hopefully, we should try and eliminate all four problems. If you don't get that, then you cannot digest a complex analysis to a problem, and I just can't help you guys. Venezuela, Saudi-Arabia, Dubai, Cuba, Jamaica, among many other countries, are all corrupt, but at least they at least have more infrastructure than Nigeria because the money is used to develop their country instead of a foreign land. As a matter of fact, I was shocked to hear about how some of our politicians were engaging in property development in Dubai and Europe.

I am done with you guys. I need to discuss with folks who can engage in complex analysis, focusing on the issues.

@Princek12 It is that comparison that is the problem. You see it in the everyday life of the average nigerian now. I have seen situations where policemen will stop a vehicle to demand N20 and passengers will be lambasting the driver to pay up. "you think say to stand for sun and rain easy?" or " we are in a hurry oooo" is what you will be hearing from Nigerians. See what i mean? Nigerians making rationale of corruption. Then the policeman will be feeling cool with himself. That is why they do not hide to do it anymore. People have rationalized their actions to make it right. My problem is that you made the comparison in the first place. You should not do that at all. All we need is your vilification.

Princek12:

You guys should put your emotion aside and reason. The hypo was thrown out comparing two suicide bombers, and the comparison was between the two types of suicide bombers, that the world would be better if suicide bombers who killed a few exists than suicide bombers who killed all.

So, now we are comparing two types of suicide bombers?? Is Suicide bombing a crime? YES. Does selecting to kill just a few people make you a better suicide killer? NO. Just choosing to kill only adults make you better than the suicide bomber who chooses to kill children? NO. Do you cause less damage if you choose one or the other? NO. Why? Because a Suicide Killer is a Suicide KILLER and meaningless death is meaningless death. Lol

Princek12:

You said since when did the world develop this ranking for suicide bombers? Well, you won't know because you are not in a field of law, and you apparently are not apt to get it. For your info, there is a ranking for varying degrees of crime; for example, in the U.S. you have first degree, second degree, third degree, then manslaughter, and so on, of course depending on the varying degrees of maliciousness. There is a difference between someone who kills one hundred or thousands  or millions of people, i.e., Hitler and warlords who commit genocide, and some heffer who shoots and kills one person. If you guys cannot get that, then I can't discuss with you, for you guys do not want to reason.

Lol . . . .  It would behoove you to know that you are not talking here to an slowpoke. About your reference to the law as possible reason for the LOGIC you continue to produce, may I point you to the fact that the law considers all crimes, crimes? It is when it comes to deciding level of punishment to dole out for each crime that it then classifies each crime.

Princek12:

I never justified corruption with economics; what I said was that corruption is wrong and should not be tolerated, but that, comparatively, a looter who stores and invests money at home is better than a looter who stores and invests the looted funds overseas. If you can't get that, then I can't help you guys.

A Looter is a criminal. Whatever he does with the money stolen is NOT to the BENEFIT of the community in any way because all it does is ENCOURAGE CRIME.

Princek12:

You guys act as though corruption exists only in Nigeria. There is corruption on every part of the globe, but the only difference in corruption in Nigeria is that (1) the corrupt folks in Nigeria when caught are not being prosecuted; (2) the corrupt folks in Nigeria usually store the looted funds in off-shore accounts, thereby benefiting a foreign land; (3) the corrupt folks in Nigeria usually invest the money overseas; (4) and the corrupt folks in Nigeria loot an excessive amount of funds.

Can we please stop being STUPID. Stop fighting your conscience with ridiculous excuses and admissions that corruption is not just a Nigerian thing. NO ONE HERE HAS SAID IT IS, and NO ONE IS ASSUMING THAT. SO for you to bring that up in a discussion on NIGERIA AND NIGERIAN AFFAIRS is not only immature but terrible.

Princek12:

Unfortunately, Nigeria suffers from all four problems, but Nigeria would a whole lot better than it is if it at least suffered from only the first problem, but, hopefully, we should try and eliminate all four problems. If you don't get that, then you cannot digest a complex analysis to a problem, and I just can't help you guys. Venezuela, Saudi-Arabia, Dubai, Cuba, Jamaica, among many other countries, are all corrupt, but at least they at least have more infrastructure than Nigeria because the money is used to develop their country instead of a foreign land. As a matter of fact, I was shocked to hear about how some of our politicians were engaging in property development in Dubai and Europe.

I am done with you guys. I need to discuss with folks who can engage in complex analysis, focusing on the issues.

Again, TERRIBLE STRAWMAN!!

@princek12 The point is that it is irrational to condone corruption for the sake of national development. Nobody wants to be labbelled a thief not even a real thief, not even a mega thief like OBJ. We all know how he mindlessly looted Nigeria if we allow him to continue insulting our intelligence and dignity by creating 6000 jobs and expect us to be grateful to him and his likes, we would be sending the incubent governments at all tiers the wrong message which is "please kindly loot us blindly don't fix our roads if we die in road accidents that's our problem, leave our hospitals if we are sick and can't afford to pay for hospital bills abroad then tough luck for us, I'ts okay with us if our children die of hunger and malnutrition but please we would be grateful if you do some little philantropic work when you leave office like job creation for a few thousand of people which you neglected when you had the oppurtunity as president, governor, LGC, councillor e.t.c to create for MILLIONS. Because we have completely lost our dignity, we will forget in a hurry that u ever looted and put us through this sufferings infact we are imbeciles". Need I say more? But however on the other hand what message would we be sending to the incubent government if our reaction is as such "it is you that is the  slowpoke to think we would forget so fast your cruelty. We know we cannot do anything to you because you r untouchable. But we would disgrace you at every given oppurtunity, we would expose who you really are to the international community in the media, on the internet, even nairaland. We would pelt you with eggs and tomatoes if we ever see you outside your comfort zone Nigeria, when you die we would ensure that nothing good will be said about you because you have caused so many death's and sufferings". That is the least we can do to put corruption in check in Nigeria, Therefore OBJ should not be commended for cretin those 6000 jobs. Need I say more?

@bidemi, what are u still doing on this thread? i've been gone for 2 days now and you are still here teaching these morons to stop clapping for evil. we have an adage in the eastern part of nigeria which says that an evil bird farted and asked his kins to clap for him,his pple cried tufiakwa that we can never clap for an abomination. you see, that adage is now in the past as is evident from the type of comments that nigerians are posting here. trying to hail and justify the ape's creation of 6000 jobs after a hellish 8yrs in office. poverty and hard times have taken away our reasonings and consciencs and it is very painful. i had to leave the thread when some1 suggested that atleast he tried,lets MANAGE IT. that simply did it for me and then others came aboard to rationalise beween what they termed lesser evil which is keeping the loots in the country and bigger evil which is keeping it abroad. so tell me,with this kinda mentality,how do we develop as a country. i weep for my country.

Kobokunje:

When did a say a suicide bomber is not a killer? I said that there are both killers, but someone who kills one person is different from someone who kills a million, in terms of egregiousness of the crime. You can't understand that.

And when did I say that the law does not consider all crimes to be crimes?
Obviously the law recognizes that even within crimes, the severity of one crime could vary from another crime, and that is what you cannot get.

I brought corruption not being a Nigerian thing is that you don't seem to understand that weighing the severity of each corrupt act is not a justification for that corrupt act, and that it is being done because in advanced countries sentencing for crimes are prescribed depending on the severity of the consequence of that crime and aim to deter potential criminals. In case you don't understand, for example, someone who rapes and kills a child may be punished more than someone who rapes and kills an adult, even though they are both killers and rapists.


I never said looters are not criminals, and that they should not be punished so as not to encourage crime. I said they should be punished. You don't seem to understand stuff. The point I was driving at was the consequences of the varying ways in which it is carried out, and I paralleled it with other countries to show that even if looters invested looted funds in a manner in which it is done in foreign countries--investing it locally, that Nigeria would not be as terrible as it is. That by no means justifies looting or says that it is not a crime.

I don't even think you know what a straw argument is, so I won't go there.

Rells 2
Please tell me in any of my statements how I have condoned corruption or justified looting. I am not saying that creating 6,000 jobs justifies his looting. I have said that that the only way to deter looters is to prosecute them.  If I were to confront Obasanjo or speak at any event, I would say even though you created 6,000 slave labor jobs from money you stole, money which is not your own, it will at least provide jobs for some impoverished people; however, Mr. Obasanjo you are still a thief and a criminal, and I hope you pay for your crime. I am not too emotional as to disagree about the possible benefits of the 6,000 jobs to those people who may need it, even though it is slave labor. I am a pragmatist and a realist, and that is where we are different. Hypothetically, if Obasanjo uses part of that $16b to build all the roads in Nigeria, I would still call him a criminal and a thief, that he should rot in jail, but I would not deny the benefits of those newly constructed roads to the country just because it was constructed with stolen funds. Again, I am pragmatist, I don't allow emotion to cloud my judgment. We just think differently.

the viper:

@bidemi, what are u still doing on this thread? i've been gone for 2 days now and you are still here teaching these morons to stop clapping for evil. we have an adage in the eastern part of nigeria which says that an evil bird farted and asked his kins to clap for him,his pple cried tufiakwa that we can never clap for an abomination. you see, that adage is now in the past as is evident from the type of comments that nigerians are posting here. trying to hail and justify the ape's creation of 6000 jobs after a hellish 8yrs in office. poverty and hard times have taken away our reasonings and consciencs and it is very painful. i had to leave the thread when some1 suggested that atleast he tried,lets MANAGE IT. that simply did it for me and then others came aboard to rationalise beween what they termed lesser evil which is keeping the loots in the country and bigger evil which is keeping it abroad. so tell me,with this kinda mentality,how do we develop as a country. i weep for my country.

You are a fool, a bastard, and a big slowpoke. You should die being ignorant. You resort to personal attacks when you have nothing to say. I am out, that is why I hate to discuss with some Nigerians.

Princek12:

Kobokunje:

When did a say a suicide bomber is not a killer? I said that there are both killers, but someone who kills one person is different from someone who kills a million, in terms of egregiousness of the crime. You can't understand that.

Hhhmmm. . .  I can’t understand that because you say so?? Lol
You do realize you are still doing the same thing, comparing crimes in a way that the law would not ? If a man kills another man he is a criminal in much the same way that a man who kills a million men is.

Princek12:

And when did I say that the law does not consider all crimes to be crimes?
Obviously the law recognizes that even within crimes, the severity of one crime could vary from another crime, and that is what you cannot get.

The law recognizes first and foremost all crimes are crimes. However, when it comes to punishing crime, the law CLASSIFIES crime, IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER.  Level of Severity given a crime DOES NOT TAKE AWAY from the fact that a crime was committed.
Yet again you claim I cannot get it just because you say so?? Lol . . . . continue thinking that if it makes you feel you are making some wonderful point here. . . . lol

Princek12:

I brought corruption not being a Nigerian thing is that you don't seem to understand that weighing the severity of each corrupt act is not a justification for that corrupt act, and that it is being done because in advanced countries sentencing for crimes are prescribed depending on the severity of the consequence of that crime and aim to deter potential criminals. In case you don't understand, for example, someone who rapes and kills a child may be punished more than someone who rapes and kills an adult, even though they are both killers and rapists.

WOW!!!!   But then again, you are not the first to offer such ludicrous excuse.
Again, bringing up issues that concern OTHER COUNTRIES when the subject is on Nigeria, and Crime in NIGERIA is distasteful, and meaningless for. We are discussing Nigeria and crimes committed in Nigeria. Bringing up that crimes are also committed in other countries makes no meaning here. Trying to use examples as the one you have above is of no relevance to this topic or discussion.

Princek12:

I never said looters are not criminals, and that they should not be punished so as not to encourage crime. I said they should be punished. You don't seem to understand stuff. The point I was driving at was the consequences of the varying ways in which it is carried out, and I paralleled it with other countries to show that even if looters invested looted funds in a manner in which it is done in foreign countries--investing it locally, that Nigeria would not be as terrible as it is. That by no means justifies looting or says that it is not a crime.

I don't even think you know what a straw argument is, so I won't go there.

Please stop offering ridiculous reasoning stitched together out of desperation as logical argument. 

Obasanjo has NEVER come forward to state that ANY COURT OF LAW convicted him of the crimes he committed and that his PUNISHMENT for his CRIMES is for him to invest that money in Nigeria as he claims to have. Please STOP LEAPING all over the place to justify your congratulating the man for stealing and then using that money to hire Nigerians as if we were slaves.

How can you IMAGINE this act has anything to do with punishment for crime? How can anyone justify this man’s BOLD act to steal from the people and then turn around to claim the people should worship him for being a better thief since he invested the money in the same Nigeria by hiring the very Nigerians he stole from, to work to enrich his coffers?? What COURT OF LAW deemed this his punishment and for what CRIME? Aarrrrrcggghhh!!! Please stop confusing Fantasy with reality.

@ Kobokunje
Hhhmmm. . .  I can’t understand that because you say so?? Lol
You do realize you are still doing the same thing, comparing crimes in a way that the law would not ? If a man kills another man he is a criminal in much the same way that a man who kills a million men is.
Since We are both agree that they are both crimes even though the severity of the crime differs, the difference is that the crime with the greater severity usually has more dire consequences and receives a harsher sentence  more than the less severe crime. For example, even if both acts may be criminal acts, a person who kills one person has hurt one person and one family and may get 25-life, while a person who kills 20 people has hurt 20 people and 20 families and may get the death penalty or concurrent life sentences. Do you see a difference?

he law recognizes first and foremost all crimes are crimes. However, when it comes to punishing crime, the law CLASSIFIES crime, IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER.  Level of Severity given a crime DOES NOT TAKE AWAY from the fact that a crime was committed.
Yet again you claim I cannot get it just because you say so?? Lol . . . . continue thinking that if it makes you feel you are making some wonderful point here. . . . lol

We both agree that the law recognizes all crimes are crimes, but when it comes to punishing a criminal, the law does classify crime in determining the severity of punishment. While both murder and manslaughter are homicides, when it comes to punishment, murder usually receives a harsher sentence. Also, there are other mitigating factors that could reduce the severity of the punishment. The relevance here is that even though Obasanjo committed a crime, assuming he kept the money in Nigeria and invested it in Nigeria, he should get a lighter sentence than a looter who ships the money and invest it overseas. You see a difference?

WOW!!!!   But then again, you are not the first to offer such ludicrous excuse.
Again, bringing up issues that concern OTHER COUNTRIES when the subject is on Nigeria, and Crime in NIGERIA is distasteful, and meaningless for. We are discussing Nigeria and crimes committed in Nigeria. Bringing up that crimes are also committed in other countries makes no meaning here. Trying to use examples as the one you have above is of no relevance to this topic or discussion.

Sometimes using examples from advanced countries may help to explain or clarify a concept. It is called analogy.


Please stop offering ridiculous reasoning stitched together out of desperation as logical argument.

Obasanjo has NEVER come forward to state that ANY COURT OF LAW convicted him of the crimes he committed and that his PUNISHMENT for his CRIMES is for him to invest that money in Nigeria as he claims to have. Please STOP LEAPING all over the place to justify your congratulating the man for stealing and then using that money to hire Nigerians as if we were slaves.

How can you IMAGINE this act has anything to do with punishment for crime? How can anyone justify this man’s BOLD act to steal from the people and then turn around to claim the people should worship him for being a better thief since he invested the money in the same Nigeria by hiring the very Nigerians he stole from, to work to enrich his coffers?? What COURT OF LAW deemed this his punishment and for what CRIME? Aarrrrrcggghhh!!! Please stop confusing Fantasy with reality.

Who said Obasanjo came forward and said he was convicted and "that his punishment for his crimes is for him to invest that money in Nigeria as he claims to have"

Even if they are both crimes, I said that the consequence to a local economy when politician loots and invests in the local economy  is different from when a politician loots and does not invest in the local economy. The difference is 6,000 more jobs. Call it slave labor or not. And because  he supposedly created 6,000 more jobs does not mean his looting is not criminal, nor does it mean that the 6,000 jobs he created is a justification for his looting, nor that we should keep quiet and not criticize him because he created 6,000 more jobs, nor that people should worship him. The fact of consequence is that 6,000 more jobs have been created, so where are you getting from me that i said we should worship him, that he did not use stolen money to hire people. So when do you transform what I say--asserting a factual statement about 6,000 jobs that have been created, slave labor or not, which could benefit the impoverished who may need it, into worshiping him for being a better thief. Lord have mercy!

Princek12:

Even if they are both crimes, I said that the consequence to a local economy when politician loots and invests in the local economy is different from when a politician loots and does not invest in the local economy. The difference is 6,000 more jobs. Call it slave labor or not. And because he supposedly created 6,000 more jobs does not mean his looting is not criminal, nor does it mean that the 6,000 jobs he created is a justification for his looting, nor that we should keep quiet and not criticize him because he created 6,000 more jobs, nor that people should worship him. The fact of consequence is that 6,000 more jobs have been created, so where are you getting from me that i said we should worship him, that he did not use stolen money to hire people. So when do you transform what I say--asserting a factual statement about 6,000 jobs that have been created, slave labor or not, which could benefit the impoverished who may need it, into worshiping him for being a better thief. Lord have mercy!

Let me try to use layman’s economics to respond to this portion of your post.
SCENARIO A: Obasanjo had NOT STOLEN that money; the money had been INVESTED by 6000 members of the community instead into Obasanjo’s farms. Then Obasanjo farms went ahead and hired 6000 members of the same community to work on the farm.
SCENARIO B: Obansanjo STOLE money that belonged to 6000 members of the community. Then Obasanjo farms went ahead and hired 6000 members of the same community to work for him.

Do you think the scenario A is same as scenario B in the sense that 6000 jobs were created in both cases?

Kobojunkie:

Let me try to use layman’s economics to respond to this portion of your post.
SCENARIO A: Obasanjo had NOT STOLEN that money; the money had been INVESTED by 6000 members of the community instead into Obasanjo’s farms. Then Obasanjo farms went ahead and hired 6000 members of the same community to work on the farm.
SCENARIO B: Obansanjo STOLE money that belonged to 6000 members of the community. Then Obasanjo farms went ahead and hired 6000 members of the same community to work for him.

Do you think the scenario A is same as scenario B in the sense that 6000 jobs were created in both cases?

Scenario A is obviously different from scenario B. He did not steal in scenario A, but he stole in scenario B? It is the same that 6,000 jobs were created in both cases, but in scenario B he should still be prosecuted because he created jobs out of stolen funds. But also consider in scenario B, he could have stole the money that belonged to 6,000 members of the community and hired members of another community, which would make the community in which he stole from worse off, but either way he should be locked up for stealing in scenario B, even if he hired 6,000 members of the community.

Princek12:

Scenario A is obviously different from scenario B. He did not steal in scenario A, but he stole in scenario B? It is the same that 6,000 jobs were created in both cases, but in scenario B he should still be prosecuted because he created jobs out of stolen funds. But also consider in scenario B, he could have stole the money that belonged to 6,000 members of the community and hired members of another community, which would make the community in which he stole from worse off, but either way he should be locked up for stealing in scenario B, even if he hired 6,000 members of the community.

Let us go with what you have there for a minute. When we finally lock him up in the case B, and the people extract all they can of what is left of the money he stole. Then what? The 6000 jobs remain? the community continues to reap benefits from the stolen money still?

Kobojunkie:

Let us go with what you have there for a minute.  When we finally lock him up in the case B, and the people extract all they can of what is left of the money he stole. Then what? The 6000 jobs remain? the community continues to reap benefits from the stolen money still?

Hey, this is mere speculation. It is practically conceivable that the 6,000 jobs remain and the community continues to reap the benefits of the money, assuming there are dedicated folks in managerial roles who can run the company in his absence; it is also possible that the 6,000 jobs will disappear, and the community should move on. The looter should pay for his crime.

@princek12

Ori E ko 4kasibe. . . .

if you commit espionage u get a free pass for committing espionage against your country for just one country as oppose to 20. . . at least you didn't spread the secrets very far.