DeepSight:


The very painful truth which you will find very very hard to digest is that we are indeed just very large rats more evolved than the common house mouse. Have you ever looked closely at your palms? Go and look at the feet of a mouse. Have you ever wondered why most tests on new medicines are conducted with mice first? It is because their entire organic make up and metabolism is very similar to ours!

Wake up to the painful reality: you are a rat.

johnydon22:


naaaah none necessary, besides i wont have time to pilot it

I have been following this Atheism recently with keen and humble interest. It's amazing, I have never thought human can argue against the existence of God.
Although, your points are not out of place but the composition of nature ie human, animal, the earth, sun, moon, stars, whether, season etc prove you wrong. Take a look at the organisation of nature, is it a mere coincidence that it is such beautifully arranged? Sure a brain is behind it. Nothing just happen, it is that brain that I call God.

my top arguments for a God. especially the Christian God.

1. there is no fundamental difference between a universe that came by chance and one that was made to look like chance. Therefore, whether God exists or not, we cannot know by just observing the universe if it was disguised to look random in the first place.

2. Christian scientists have constantly excelled in their fields. some of the best ones were lifetime Christians.

3. it's not just DNA. life itself is a collection of molecular machines. molecular machines themselves require such a high level of intellectual process that three people had to share the 2016 chemistry Nobel prize for their synthesis and design. suggesting they came by chance in hydrothermal vents is very suspicious.

4. the atmosphere in churches of worship is very divine. one can almost feel a divine presence when worshipping God. if God did not exist, how would this be possible?

5. the bible has repeatedly proven to be quite historically accurate. All major events have been reliably documented and separately confirmed. could this not mean that the Bible is quite accurate in whole?

6. miracles and signs and wonders. and the signs of the end time. everything Jesus said would happen is now happening even to the letter. if he were fake, would that really be possible?

7. the wonder of the works of nature. from the pineapple to the horseshoe crab to the immortal jelly fish to the human brain. could this Really have come from "random" evolution?

---

If at this point you're wondering how on earth I could still be an atheist if I knew all this, then you should know my personality is the kind that questions existing arguments till they break down. the above is no exception.

DeepSight:


Na confirmento simulation.

I do tire for the simulation sef, but I don't relish suicide.

Get a tank of nitrogen or helium, you'd go with a smile on your face sef

Getting one is a little difficult tho

Living as a rat can be tough, but I wouldn't have it any other way

4kings:

Ok, It would be illogical to be assertive that the universe is not a simulation.

Goot

Now, if you accept that this is likely a simulation, then what would the being who's running the simulation qualify as?

johnydon22:


I knew if someone could be up to it, it would be my friendordnicklaus. . . Careful i can also be formidable as a theist

Oya na. lets Start

All gods are man made and this is known from the fact that all deities assume attributes dictated by people who rever them. I could easily make up a god and call it a god of hail and fire. That a god exists should be seen in the fact that it is independent of people's dictatorship. If we feel that gods created this complex cosmos by only basing our arguments on its incomprehensible complexity, then we must remember that gods are beings of complex nature and this should compel us to question the origin of gods. cc johnydon22 valentinemary 4kings

johnydon22:
I have been going over this board from day to day without really contributing, reason because most of the topics are either irrelevant to me [doesn't concern or tickles my curiosity] or it is simply cliche - something i have gone over time and again during my "very active days"


So it all seem boring and uninteresting to me and i yearn for some fun here at least something intellectually, philosophically challenging.


I remember as a kid in primary 6 i always thought teachers to be more important than Doctors, i still do actually but during our school debate my teacher made me argue for Doctors.

Which brings me to the purpose of this thread, lets for once leave our comfort normal zone and argue from opposite perspective than we normally do - lets swap role.

The debate is

Does God exist?

The idea is that someone who do not believe in God would swap role and argue that God exists with his points and same Goes for someone who hold a belief in Gods - lets see how well we do it out of our comfort zone

This is sorely an intellectual exercise, just to do something differently for fun - so arguing for God or opposite does not affect or change your default position..

To start - first state your default position and then state the position you'd argue for in this thread..

I'm hoping to have real fun here!!!

For the people in Enugu, there is a live debate by thinkers Pub hosted by MrAnony on this same topic [Does God exist?], i will debate live on that day [As an atheist this time ]

If you'd like to see me argue live and get to see a smashing debate, you are free to come and watch.

Date : 10th November 2016
Venue: Golden Toast Restaurant independence Layout Enugu
Time: 6pm prompt]

I am Humanist, i certainly don't believe in the existence of Gods, supernatural, spirit and realism based on religious beliefs.

But for the purpose of this thread, i will argue in favor of existence of monotheistic God.


1. God is an eternal being. He has persona attributes. He doesn't have a known or knowable beginning or residential location (he lives in all life and non life bearing spaces).

wiegraf:


Goot

Now, if you accept that this is likely a simulation, then what would the being who's running the simulation qualify as?

A Designer

johnydon22:


naaaah none necessary, besides i wont have time to pilot it

How did it go?

4kings:

A Designer

You've just admitted there most likely is a designer. You may choose to name it such, but I would use a much more forward term: god

So, as you can see, likely thereisgodoh

wiegraf:


You've just admitted there most likely is a designer. You may choose to name it such, but I would use a much more forward term: god

So, as you can see, likely thereisgodoh

Ya, i never dispute that point

wiegraf:


Get a tank of nitrogen or helium, you'd go with a smile on your face sef

Getting one is a little difficult tho

Living as a rat can be tough, but I wouldn't have it any other way

Don't you think that living as a spirit being in a world of spirit forms absent the mortal requirements of living as a rat would be a superior existence?

DeepSight:


Don't you think that living as a spirit being in a world of spirit forms absent the mortal requirements of living as a rat would be a superior existence?

Depends on what a spirit being and my values are, good ser

wiegraf:


Depends on what a spirit being and my values are, good ser

A spirit being is simply you absent your physical body. Now I know that you do not believe that you can exist absent your body, but you can, and indeed you will. If you have ever had out of body experiences you will have a personal knowledge of this which will be beyond words and arguments.

Your values are simply the same thing: that which will be important to you without the needs of a physical body being considered.

DeepSight:


A spirit being is simply you absent your physical body. Now I know that you do not believe that you can exist absent your body, but you can, and indeed you will. If you have ever had out of body experiences you will have a personal knowledge of this which will be beyond words and arguments.

Your values are simply the same thing: that which will be important to you without the needs of a physical body being considered.

I've had a couple of out of body experiences. They were fun, yes, but they were all in my head

I don't believe in freewill so all this is moot. And this hypothetical you sounds like a different consciousness, a different being entirely even if sharing some properties, so who knows how that would work? Would you still have the same sort of thought patterns as a spirit? Will you still have the same feelings etc?

However, as I am now, I would say maybe? The novelty could wear off

lordnicklaus:
All gods are man made and this is known from the fact that all deities assume attributes dictated by people who revere them.

The jewish for example, were portrayed miserable and stubborn in scriptures of their own god, while would sane people dictate ill-will for themselves?

I could easily make up a god and call it a god of hail and fire.

Sure, a god can be a perceived supernatural being worshiped
That does not make it have supernatural powers, its/his actions does. So you can always encounter scams, that does not rule out the existence of supernatural beings.

That a god exists should be seen in the fact that it is independent of people's dictatorship.

Sure, that's why u are to strive for higher consciousness to know that which the creator desire of you.

If we feel that gods created this complex cosmos by only basing our arguments on its incomprehensible complexity, then we must remember that gods are beings of complex nature and this should compel us to question the origin of gods. cc johnydon22 valentinemary 4kings

You just made valid statements(@bolded), so why do u intend to comprehend the incomprehensible?

hahn:


How did it go?

It was fierce and challenging and very interesting, enjoyed every bit of it.. Here are few pictures..

1)My argument/rebuttals
2)Answering question from the audience

If i lay my hands on the video i will also share [i'm the one on red sweat shirt]

Cc. Loj, Lordnicklaus, DeepSight, 4Kings, Shollyps, Kratoss, Wiegraf, HcPaul

johnydon22:


It was fierce and challenging and very interesting, enjoyed every bit of it.. Here are few pictures..

1)My argument/rebuttals
2)Answering question from the audience

If i lay my hands on the video i will also share [i'm the one on red sweat shirt]

Cc. Loj, Lordnicklaus, DeepSight, 4Kings, Shollyps, Kratoss, Wiegraf, HcPaul

I really want to hear you debate. You should invite me to debate as a non scientist too some day

ValentineMary:
The universe had to be molded by a designer who is the first onus to begin everything. His manifestation is seen in his creation.

who is the Designer?

what do you mean by first Onus?

CoolUsername:


I believe that atheists use it as a way of diminishing the power of God. They want to show that there isn't any noticeable difference between atheists and theists.

They are right to some extent. But the people that they attack are just religious people. Religion is limited but Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I hope they repent before judgment comes.

Soooooo, how did I do?

what do you mean as God?

KingEbukasBlog:


The major difference between deism and theism is the immanence of God- his divine presence which makes him intervene in the affairs of man or the functionality of the whole system . This means that theism took a step further . Theism like deism see intelligence , design complexity of nature as evidence for God . Therefore criticizing the belief in an immanent God does not in away diminish the power of God .



Its petty, its puerile . They have no reasonable argument against God's existence . All we do is counter attacks on religious beliefs and practices - these (opprobrium of religious beliefs ) do not impugn the existence of God .




Have you noticed that atheists shy away from arguing with the deists because there are no religious beliefs to deride when they are boxed into a corner , pummeled intellectually



Anecdotal evidence remains the best to prove that one can have a personal relationship with God



I hope your opening line on judgement day will be this joke - it won't be funny



First page bro , first page

what rating would I give this guy Now??

in fact take 9.9/10

promise10:


what rating would I give this guy Now??

in fact take 9.9/10

Lol . Thank you sir

4kings:

Nope. Something that cant be explained yet doesn't make it supernatural. Just like how the primitive men thought rain or famine came about.
Laws are derived from observations and understanding made on phenomenon with verifiable facts. Lack of understanding does not equate 'Supernatural'.

is this not deceit?

I know that it may be discovered. but what do you think in a case where the something is contradicting our currently discovered physical laws like what happenned before big bang. because for it to be discovered in the future, it will be discovered with the basis of the laws we have now.

now, how do you think that for example what happened before big bang will be Discovered by a basic contradicting scientific law?

sonmvayina:


that is why i have the brain..i think and it does what i tell it to do...my wish is his command..if you are my enemy, if i tell it to kill you...it will whether you give your life to jebus or not......

oh I thought you said Jesus. abeg just swerve Biko.

hahn:


I really want to hear you debate. You should invite me to debate as a non scientist too some day

Maybe one day

johnydon22:


Maybe one day

Guy, see your leg in the second picture. You need some chicken?

taurus25:
As a theist, i think dna, brain, blood, eyes etc is a perfect proof of Gods existence. What do you guys think.?

it depends what my fellow atheists believe as God.

a sky Daddy? definitely Not! simply put, an intelligent Designer? it makes more sense to say it came from an intelligent designer.

but, it is so ridiculous to say it came by chance like my bros @lennycool who claimed that snowflakes are codes. but anyway, for me, i don't want to believe in any form of God. I will go by believing it came by chance.


In @lennycool voice, DNA, brain is not even intelligently designed, because it is not perfect. snowflakes is more like designed than DNA. go google and educate yourself!

in @hcpaul, sanity proves that imperfection disproves intelligent designing. the fact that facebook is a product of intelligent designing, it must be perfect in all round. (whisper) is facebook still hackable? never mind, kudos to sanity!

johnydon22:


Maybe one day

Send the video soon o. Aren't you guys gonna upload on youtube?

KingEbukasBlog:


@ Emboldened text

Plaetton once compared humans' intelligence to rats'

https://www.nairaland.com/2152446/much-ado-human-intelligence-rat

you know why? atheism is the most confused set of people. atheism is based on personal understanding and convictions. some of them have many ridiculous beliefs.

hahn:


Send the video soon o. Aren't you guys gonna upload on youtube?

I believe so, i am not the host just got an invitation to debate

hahn:

Guy, see your leg in the second picture. You need some chicken?

Blame Buhari

DeepSight:


Shut up! How dare you? ? ?

What evidence are you talking about?

The evidence of a mercenary world with little accidental and deformed mercenary creatures eating up one another as evidence for God? ? ?

How does that prove that God exists, tell me.

God does not exist: cram that into your mind sir.

this is what happens to kids who wants God to be tested with specimens and chemicals as a proof of his existence.

even Hahn said one time that he would believe in God, if God will come down and come to his house, knock at the door and tell him "I am god! ".

you see how ridiculous it sounds?