« #385 on: Yesterday at 10:43:04 PM »

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Copied this from another thread here on NL Msg#155 on https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-283613.128.html

Please note this is used just to complement the issue of Omniscience/Omnipotence/Omnipresence. As I wrote earlier, our understanding differs and the author of the below has shown (better than I could myself) my understanding of God's power. Omni"gbogbo E" is just another way of limiting God.

QUOTE BEGINS

(1) The Koran throughout proclaims that God knows absolutely everything and that he can do whatever he wishes, whenever he pleases.

Comment: it appears that the Koran's authors didn't realise that omniscience and omnipotence are inconsistent characteristics. Thus, if God knows absolutely everything, then nobody could ask a question to which he doesn't know the answer, whereas if God could do whatever he wishes, whenever he pleases, then he could ask a question to which nobody knows the answer.

Verdict: inconsistency.
*
(2) It also appears that the Koran's authors did not appreciate that the concept of an omnipotent being is absurd. Thus, ex hypothesi an omnipotent being (OB) can do anything and everything; hence, there would not be any examples of what an OB cannot do; hence, it would be impossible for anyone to give any any examples of what an OB could not do; hence, an OB could not give any examples of what an OB could not do; but if an OB cannot give any examples of what an OB cannot do, that in itself would be an example of what an OB cannot do; hence, there would be at least one example of what an OB cannot do.

Verdict: absurdity.
*
QUOTE ENDS

Look at (2) again. There are no examples of what an Omnipotent being cannot be (including become a man or baby or piece of wood). The word limits God to human imagination and is MAN SPEAKING not GOD SPEAKING

So Bro, what are the questions you wished to ask?

@The_seeker, SEE WHAT YOU WROTE BY YOUR SELF:Adam - Safiyu’llah - The chosen of God
Noah - Nabiyu’llah - The preacher of God
Abraham - khililu’llah - The friend of God
Moses - Kalimu’llah - The converser with God
Muhammad - Rususlu’llah - The messenger of God.THOSE ARABIAN WORDS HAVE SUFFIX OF ALLAH , THEN WHY JIBRI(IL) IS THE SAME AS GABRI(EL) WHICH MEANS GOD STRENGTH

AND ISHAM(EL) SAME AS ISMA(IL) WHICH MEANS GOD HEARS THOSE WORDS SIMPLY END WITH (EL) IN HEBREW AND (IL) IN ARABIAN WHICH MEANS GOD , SO PLEASE WHERE IS THOSE NAME THAT IT'S COMMON IN ARABIAN LANGUAGE AND HEBREW LANGUAGE WHICH END WITH GOD AS A SUFFIX .AS IN GABRIEL=JIBRIL, EESMAEL = ISMAIL. SIMPLE MATHS EL=IL OF ARABIC . ASK YOUR IMAM OR SHEIK.

uplawal:

@Olabowale, ALLAH bless you Alhaji,right now am listeninig to Alhaji Sheikh Ganiyu Aboto and Buhari ibn Musa on youtube,Naija ISLAM is sweet like honey,am so greatful to GOD am a muslim,he indeed loves me cos he opened my eyes to see his wonders

kola oloye:

As a good Muslim can you tell me 5 advantages of Sharia law?

nuclearboy:

Copied this from another thread here on NL Msg#155 on https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-283613.128.html

Please note this is used just to complement the issue of Omniscience/Omnipotence/Omnipresence. As I wrote earlier, our understanding differs and the author of the below has shown (better than I could myself) my understanding of God's power. Omni"gbogbo E" is just another way of limiting God.

QUOTE BEGINS

(1) The Koran throughout proclaims that God knows absolutely everything and that he can do whatever he wishes, whenever he pleases.

Comment: it appears that the Koran's authors didn't realise that omniscience and omnipotence are inconsistent characteristics. Thus, if God knows absolutely everything, then nobody could ask a question to which he doesn't know the answer, whereas if God could do whatever he wishes, whenever he pleases, then he could ask a question to which nobody knows the answer.

Verdict: inconsistency.
*
(2) It also appears that the Koran's authors did not appreciate that the concept of an omnipotent being is absurd. Thus, ex hypothesi an omnipotent being (OB) can do anything and everything; hence, there would not be any examples of what an OB cannot do; hence, it would be impossible for anyone to give any any examples of what an OB could not do; hence, an OB could not give any examples of what an OB could not do; but if an OB cannot give any examples of what an OB cannot do, that in itself would be an example of what an OB cannot do; hence, there would be at least one example of what an OB cannot do.

Verdict: absurdity.
*
QUOTE ENDS

Look at (2) again. There are no examples of what an Omnipotent being cannot be (including become a man or baby or piece of wood). The word limits God to human imagination and is MAN SPEAKING not GOD SPEAKING

So Bro, what are the questions you wished to ask?

okunoba:

@The Seeker, if the God of the Quran has power over all things, y then does he allow so much injustice and evil in the World, wouldn`t it have been better for God to make this World a kinder and more humane one. He could have created a  World where nobody had to steal  so they wouldn`t have their limbs cut as practiced in a sharia dominated society.

A religion of peace and a merciful God, where is the peace in suicide bombing or the mercy in cutting of the hands of the poor for stealing. The only reason u are a Muslim is because that`s the way u have been raised, if u were raised a Christian u would be claiming Jesus Christ as the son of god, as ridiculous as it might sound to u. We are a product of our upbringing. If as a seeker open your mind to the possibilities of this World instead of being stuck in the sand of religion.

IFA rules

firebrand:

It is unfortunate that these fanatics that claims to know God more than others would go to the extent of looking for loopholes in other peoples religion so as to glorify & justify their own religion & stance on same. One of the evidence of inferiority complex is to be much concern about a perceived opponent & feel threatened most of the time. This comparasm was based on religious ego, but thank God reasons has prevailed!

Truly, viao has proved beyond every reasonable doubt that the earth described in the bible is not flat, and even gone further to make nonsense of quranic verses to the dismay of the self acclaimed arabic scholar.

`AND THOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE`

Quote from: uplawal on December 13, 2009, 02:38 PM
@Olabowale, ALLAH bless you Alhaji,right now am listeninig to Alhaji Sheikh Ganiyu Aboto and Buhari ibn Musa on youtube,Naija ISLAM is sweet like honey,am so greatful to GOD am a muslim,he indeed loves me cos he opened my eyes to see his wonders

As a good Muslim can you tell me 5 advantages of Sharia law?

It is unfortunate that these fanatics that claims to know God more than others would go to the extent of looking for loopholes in other peoples religion so as to glorify & justify their own religion & stance on same. One of the evidence of inferiority complex is to be much concern about a perceived opponent & feel threatened most of the time. This comparasm was based on religious ego, but thank God reasons has prevailed!

Truly, viao has proved beyond every reasonable doubt that the earth described in the bible is not flat, and even gone further to make nonsense of quranic verses to the dismay of the self acclaimed arabic scholar.

`AND THOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE`

nuclearboy:

@the_seeker:

I sincerely believe most muslims believe what they say and have been brought up to detest Christianity. because they feel God is being insulted. Is it not funny however, that both in the Bible and Koran, it is people who have a false belief who feel compelled to defend their "GOD"? And bullies usually are wrong which is why they shout loudest believing noise to counter truth? Think about it.

ANUS? "another trick question" meant to offend and ridicule, abi? And then the avenue for name-calling is opened and the uncultured can be called in to start slinging insults at the different "GODs".  Don't play games here. All these "lets win using a trick" questions have no place in a conversation between people who are sincere. Funnily enough, the desire to turn every thread into a name and insult slinging doesn't help your case for a "supreme position" God who is above many things.

The God you claim all these "macho Oga patapata" attributes for has many things to prove. Listening and seeing all the insults we send in his direction in this Forum should have caused him to kill/maim/wound many people here. Why hasn't He? Cos the attribute is wrong. The True God has nothing to prove so whether its Christians, Athiests, Muslims or whatever barking, the name calling bounces off. It is the deliberate lies and mischief that are recorded and which will stand at judgement. And the fake one would not be allowed to do so by the true one so it doesn't seem to be the True one.

Again, think it through - the instance anything limits God, either the "limiter" is wrong or it is not the "true God" being referred to. Take your pick! God is UNLIMITED! And has the right to be anything including a piece of paper or yes, a PIG at any time He wants IF HE WANTS. Any god that needs to prove a point would have destroyed Satan and many people in this forum if he were the real God.

With such a proud (that can't allow himself to look low) god, "His Supreme position" is not consonant with any insult. Neither is it with people lying about Him in any way. Why hasn't He done anything about such and destroyed a sizable proportion of NL. He only sees having a partner or son ONLY as beneath HIS UNLIMITEDNESS? Wrong interpretation there, Bro.

Anyway, God is 1: a Spirit that manifested in Flesh as the SON and manifests as the Holy Ghost dwelling in and guiding His adopted children. Spirits do not use the toilet! BTW, the Bible says "I form light and create darkness"!  Unjust/Silly/etc are Human words being tried to "fit" a Divine Creator. You judge that someone did wrong before you say what they did was "unjust". Who's going to judge God? So then, who's going to say whatever He does is Unjust/Silly/etc because the minute you say so, you just judged the Almighty God

nuclearboy:

@the_seeker:

YOU are asking ME to think?? Strange since you have been taught something and REFUSE to think about it. What you're doing is forcing yourself to stick to that by forcing "errors" into other ideologies to self-justify. Maybe you should use the same criteria on yourself!

The beauty of true "Christianity" is that it is personal and doesn't allow any pre-decided idea(s) of who/what/how God is! Not what parents/society/peer pressure suggests. You will find that most real Believers fought a war within themselves before they believed and that is why its called "surrendering to God" or becoming "born-again". Wasn't easy, guy! We had to deal with what you are closing your mind to. And each thus has a different maturity/understanding level. That is supported by the Scriptures! So when you say each has his own understanding, Yes, that is right. Its not like memorizing something and just repeating it non-stop. Here, I need my mind and will to do whatever and it is personal

That is the beauty of free-will coupled with reason. I follow a creed that says "question everything". EVERYTHING! And it took time to reason out why I am my "word", why free-will sent Adam out and brings us in and that it makes sense to follow a God that is not proud, that is not distant, that cares enough to show His Love and whose worst "crime" was that He was Holy. And, He is the true God is why its only Him that everyone cares enough to study and fight against. Haba, on this forum, there are non-Christians who have read the Bible more than us its owners

I have lofty things to look up to, to try to achieve. Interesting that no religion claims evil "in any form" of Jesus. In fact, everyone tries to associate with Him. Compare that to the alternatives where everyone tries to force this "Crying Carpenter Son the Son etc" to be associated to them. Funny, ehn? Especially when Christianity ignores these alternatives since they don't matter to it.

You insist on using the word "Triune". It is NOT 3 GODS but 1 GOD showing Himself in 3 ways. My example was [1] a letter [2] a telephone call [3] a physical visit. If I can do that, well?

The Word for God in Genesis is plural! Have you forgotten Isaiah spoke of "Emmanuel [God with/amongst us] called the Saviour, Mighty God etc". Have you not neglected David's psalm where he said "The Lord said unto my Lord"? You selectively read the Bible looking for errors forgetting that what we say is that it was written by MEN but inspired by God. Each man used his own literature but 40 authors put together a book that has the SAME MESSAGE. Not coming together to make it "ONE" as other religions do, only proves that this is a personal issue wherein each finds his own way to the same truth and grow, aided by the Spirit of God and of course, fought every step of the way by religion, the lack of religion, satan, peer pressure etc. And of course, the wise men of NL

nuclearboy:

BTW, I remember speaking to an Ifa priest years back. The conversation came around to Jesus whereupon he said even the oracle mentions Him. I laughed and then he recited

Yoruba English
Ela si dide ni orun                                                                                 The Deliverer rose in Heaven
o ni o'un lo si aiye                                                                                  and said He was going to the world
won si bere pe, "Oluwa" ki ni e fe lo se                                                and they asked saying "Lord", what are you going to do there?
O si wipe, oun ma lo di omo ninu wundia                                              and He said He would go and become a child in a virgin
o'un osi ko won, o'un o si gbe eniti o ba gbagbo ninu oun ga              and teach them and would raise up those who believe in Him

But he then said they see him in the same context as Shango, Obatala etc

I'm laughing my arse off using Ifa Oracle as a case for Christianity but I laughed even more that day thinking that truly, God leaves no room for doubt. It was a wake up call to me. Every religion has a reference to the Carpenter God. Funny that Ifa uses the same language as Bible and Koran. "Deliverer"? Those in Heaven called Him "LORD"? Truth leaves no room, my guy.

PS: My written Yoruba is not perfect so any mistakes above are mine. But even if I forget parts of the Bible I shouldn't, I will never forget the above quote which he had to recite over and over cos my senses overloaded

Sorry but you are wrong. 3 images do not form in my mind!

You can look at God as merciful, forgiving and loving. that doesn't make him 3. In the same way, it would be nice if you just referred to my "again repeated" allegory. Look at me as [1] this note [2] a voice over the phone [3] a physical presence.

The Does that make me three. You're trying to find a way to get around this but there's none cos its just the truth.

When you say I read with "western goggles", you forget it comes back to you too reading with "arabian goggles".

Given the chance between the US which represents the "west" and libya or afghanistan (or anywhere) representing the "arabs", I know which I prefer.

Emmanuel means "GOD WITH US", Jesus was that "God" with us

and its sad you expect He would be going around with people saying "this is God with us". Amazing question there!

When you say "Eli", could you please google the name and find out what "Eli" means? Is that God? Another amazing question there!

Did you mean Isaiah 7 or 9? And if you meant 9, yep, thats Jesus there.

And while you leave me with my clear conscience, I have a poser for you - why? Whats the noise, the anger, the ranting all about?

Tell us one thing He did wrong.

You guys go as far as saying He died and didn't sleep for 3 days and nights.

Then you say He didn't die but was exchanged for Judas. So it was Judas crying on the Cross. Then again its Jesus when the argument suits you!

I have asked before and again do - what else but the truth do you think everyone tries to fault? Why? Because there's no need to fault a lie.

the_seeker:


I leave you to ponder with these few verses of the bible and let your conscience be the judge

John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God."
John 17:3 - "And this is eternal life, that they know You are the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
Joh n 14:28 - Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I."
The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone.No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"   

Before i attempt to anser ur posers, lemme quickly ask this:
What is the essence of the miraculous unprecidented virgin birth of Jesus,
none before it, and none after it. So why was it all so neccesary?

the_seeker:


As per the issue of plural for God in the OT. Allah severally refers to himslf as US and WE several times in the Quran. Anybody that know the semitic (arabic, aramic)  langauges will tell you it is Plural of Majesty . Even the Queen of England uses the pronoun WE to refer to herself. The jews know the OT better than anybody yet they have never concievd their God as a trinity or anything suggesting a plurality of forms. Your problem and that of christendom at large is that you guys are reading a Jewish book with western googles. Or are you telling me God hid his nature from Abraham, Moses, elijah etc. He also never told them he had a son