OmoOlofin:


Does anyone else find it to be a bogus claim that lù, lu, or lú (not sure which one of these different words is intended by our 'author') means route, bypass, pathway, or thoroughfare?

It is perfectly okay not to know. Such position is more noble than making claims that is known to be absolutely off.

Things we read on this thread. Sighs!

Bro, no two culture forms their words based on exactly the same lexis and structure. Often, to find a word that's a perfect match for another from all antiquity may require settling for the closest possible options.

What I'm referring to is "ì/lú", since that's what we are talking about at that point and not any other, just to limit confusion that never was but must be discovered for ulterior motives.

Working with etymological homophones

Etymology is the study of the original meaning of a given word. Let's say inflection for instance. The original phrase is Latin, "in flecto", meaning "I bend".

Homophones are mostly bends of the same thinking. Homophones don't just happen, there's a reason or more why some words sounds similar in Yoruba and probably other languages.

My interpretations should not just occur to me and me alone without any means of validation. The Yoruba language is quite robust with great dynamics. So we have "cloud of witnesses" at our disposal.

And since we're not citing any published Yoruba thesaurus here for the "efiwe" that would not accept principles that's not been tested, how for do? The rule of the thumb is to improvise for one, how?

Consult other wordset where the same syllable has been used in the same culture to mean exactly the same thing from the world go. We'll use ilu as a case study.

A good instance is in the oriki orile: Ijebu ode, ajagbalura. From the term ajagbalura, we can see an ancient use. Lú in Yoruba is to burrow through, to punch through, to 'dalu'.

Dálu, meaning "perforate" come across in the same structure as dálû, meaning "create city". At Ado, the ancestors were revered as "owun adaludo", people who created town to dwell in it.

Da implies the origin and lu, opening. We can also say "o lu ja ara" (the points are connected). It's not an accident that the word next to lu is ja, both words are synonyms. Let's do a review.

Interrelativity of homophones

The relationship between ilu as town and ilu as drum is because drum of those times had to be made from wood burrowed through from one end to the other. Thus, lu is to "ja oju meji si'ra won lati selu".

One of the synonyms, lu is what became ilu. The other synonym, ja is the Yoruba for oja, believed to be the foundation of town in early Yoruba, such that ancient kings were called Oloja. Reminder of the correlation of this to Olu.

From this perspective, Olu has the credential of being a "pioneer" in Yoruba history coupled with other primary attributes we may ascribe to it, as it said "idalu niselu". Olu is the "opener", like we have in "taye l'olu ejire".

Today, we can say "bawo ni mo se le ja si...?" There's a programed rule that would disuade us from saying "bawo ni mo se le lu si?" We can't reinvent the wheel.

This is because lu is the original process of burrowing to a new travel destination. Ja on the other hand is using the laid down route to the intended destination.

Thus, the Yoruba word for town developed from the psyche of a traveler who sees town not as "town" (because he's not thinking Anglophone) but as "route" to burst out elsewhere.

The problems I've created

Linguistics is the framework for an in-depth studies of various attributes of words or vocabularies in a language. I'm more of a scientist. No ordering around but sticking to guide.

I am actually thinking in the HTML language by which Yoruba language is written. We are not speaking Yoruba in this language, but we're speaking Yoruba in the interface.

There's sharp contrast between a programmer and a user. A user sees what the programmer wants the user to see. But underneath that runs codes that makes the site work, in ways that will appear gibberish to the user.

If I says in Yoruba, "e yoju", I mean "let me see you in a jiffy". But word for word, I've just said "pluck out the eyes". We never hear that version but the version we were "programmed" to hear.

So we heard the frame in it's interface. To understand the program language means we'll learn from the original wordsmiths and think like one.

And we'll always run into trouble with interface users.

absoluteSuccess:


Bro, no two culture forms their words based on exactly the same lexis and structure. Often, to find a word that's a perfect match for another from all antiquity may require settling for the closest possible options.

What I'm referring to is "ì/lú", since that's what we are talking about at that point and not any other, just to limit confusion that never was but must be discovered for ulterior motives.

lú does not mean bypass,

absoluteSuccess:


Bro, no two culture forms their words based on exactly the same lexis and structure. Often, to find a word that's a perfect match for another from all antiquity may require settling for the closest possible options.

What I'm referring to is "ì/lú", since that's what we are talking about at that point and not any other, just to limit confusion that never was but must be discovered for ulterior motives.

lú does not mean route, bypass, pathway, or thoroughfare.

Is this thread just about making stuffs up?

Someone once told me here to ignore the facts and just do my own thing.

OmoOlofin:


lú does not mean route, bypass, pathway, or thoroughfare.

Is this thread just about making stuffs up?

Someone once told me to ignore the facts.

You definitely have better idea. Its a free forum. Kindly share your knowledge.

Make learning a fun, not a mortal combat.

Peace.

OmoOlofin:


Your replies often remind me of the saying that you can only wake someone who is asleep, but not someone who is pretending to be asleep.

I'm still searching for the refutation in your long reply.

In as much as I hate to say this, I must be frank enough to tell you that your reply was full of redherring and strawman arguments.

For the most part your ideas in this reply are in-explicit, undefined, and convoluted. I suspect you were strategic about it just to give the impression of replying.

Having said that, for the umpteenth time you need to always take your time to digest the very content you want to reply to.

Otherwise, your reply will continue to be as misdirected as the one here.

The reply to your long comment here lies in the very comment you're replying to.

You just have to be eager to read too, as much as you're eager to reply too.

Again, see below for the point I made earlier which already answered your ressurected contention:



And even with your poor job on this one, there are other points as well as whole comment I made that are yet to be touched by you. Lol.

Cheers!

I can't reply you as you desire because of BOT. So, don't misunderstood my conception on response that I need reply you . But the reality is that, I will opine my view based on information from authored works and not self.

Take for instance, your mention on Arabic which I posted but unfortunately, the inscription of Arabic didn't appear as it ought to be.

Amujale:


That is a question for Olu317.

Imagery indeed. So, pitchfork , Axe, and horn don't have meaning in Yoruba land ? I mock you macof!

OmoOlofin:


Your replies often remind me of the saying that you can only wake someone who is asleep, but not someone who is pretending to be asleep.

I'm still searching for the refutation in your long reply.

In as much as I hate to say this, I must be frank enough to tell you that your reply was full of redherring and strawman arguments.

For the most part your ideas in this reply are in-explicit, undefined, and convoluted. I suspect you were strategic about it just to give the impression of replying.

Having said that, for the umpteenth time you need to always take your time to digest the very content you want to reply to.

Otherwise, your reply will continue to be as misdirected as the one here.

The reply to your long comment here lies in the very comment you're replying to.

You just have to be eager to read too, as much as you're eager to reply too.

Again, see below for the point I made earlier which already answered your ressurected contention:



And even with your poor job on this one, there are other points as well as whole comment I made that are yet to be touched by you. Lol.

Cheers!

There are some answer I didn't truthfully answer but you can highlight one after
the other!

After all pressure from some people want my opinion online to be with flaws. Interestingly, I will oblige you though with caution because of intellectual property.

Pardon me on this!

Migration from the east is absolutely not out of the question Yoruba history through archeological findings as well as ideograms { pictographs} on research work remained the best option.So, foreigners migrants can't be over looked in this issue. Perhaps, interpretation of Opa Oranmiyah need come to your mind. And I am sure , the seven relocation of Ileife have not been established.


★“These logical deductions from the extant Yoruba traditions is clearly in reasonable agreement with the scientific conlusions reached unanimously today by the body of historical scholarship -- both indigenous and non-indigenous"★


The above statement is not true about the Yoruba language because, no Niger Benue language and ethnic group have linguistic , cultural connection with Yoruba's . So, claiming Yoruba ancestors migrated from Niger Benue confluence is false. Since no ethnic group within that region agreed to such postulation or other link. Even Yagba-Okun are known as distinct group within that North central region



★“Although myths are over-the-centuries exaggerations, modifications and distortions of some kernel of very ancient truth and fact; historians (unlike lay-persons) consider it a very important task to discern these nucleus of ancient truths and facts."★


Yoruba creation myth:
These creation myth are three in nature
Interestingly, in the creation of myth of Yoruba, there are three version and two out it are political as you had pointed but one is the same as found in Genesis 1vs1-3. Interestingly, the Torah: Bible's archeological account in classic Hebrew's pictograms proves it all. Meanwhile,the two versions of creation myth which incorporate . both Obatala and odudua re political . While the third version is the only that fit in with its simplicity form which is Ela(Orumiela).

And it goes thus,according fo Awo dino:

1. Orisanla’ (Obatala’):- It was the arch-divinity who was chosen by eledumare, the supreme deity to create a solid land out of the primordial abyss that constituted the earth and of populating the land with human beings. He descended from Orun (the invisible realm, the realm of the ancestors) into Aiye (the visible realm) on a chain, carrying a snail shell full of earth, palm kernels and a five-toed chicken.

He was to empty the content of the snail shell on the water after placing some pieces of iron on it, and then to place the chicken on the earth to spread it over the primordial water by doing what chickens do, which is to scratch at the ground.

According to this above version of the myth, Obatala completed this task to the satisfaction of Ele-dumare. He was then given the task of making the physical body of human beings after which Ele-dumare would give them the breath of life (emi). He also completed this task and this is why he has the title of "Obarisa" the king of Orisas.


2. The other variant of the cosmogenic myth does not credit Obatala with the completion of the task.

While it concedes that Obatala was given the task, it avers that Obatala got drunk on palm wine even before he got to the earth and he fell asleep. Ele-dumare got worried when he did not return on time, so he sent Oduduwa, Obatala’s younger brother, to find out what was going on. When Oduduwa found Obatala drunk, he simply took over the task and completed it.

He created land. The spot on which he landed from Orun and which he redeemed from water to become land is called Ile-Ife, considered the sacred and spiritual home of the Yoruba.

Obatala was embarrassed when he woke up and, due to this experience, he made it a taboo for any of his devotees to drink alcoholic beverages.

Ele-dumare forgave him and gave him the responsibility of molding the physical bodies of human beings out of clay

(in another version)
Obatala was drunk when making the bodies and some came out a bit off. That is why Obatala is the Orisa of hunchbacks, and the disabled in general as well as albinos).

The making of land is a symbolic reference to the founding of the Yoruba kingdoms, and this is why Oduduwa is credited with that achievement. Oduduwa’s progeny were sixteen in number and became Kings.

So, Oduduwa was the first king of the Yoruba nation and founded Ile Ife, the ancient capital, creating a succession of kings all related to him.

However, this version incorporates history into the creation myth. It establishes the divine nature of the founder Oduduwa. Before the time of Oduduwa, the story did not involve Obatala getting drunk and Oduduwa finishing the job.


What is important is the symbolism. The chain is representative of Ogun, the five toed chicken Osun, and the palm kernels, Orunmila. These Orisa, in combination represent unity and a balance of forces.
Unity and balance
(in a cosmos of dualities and diversity) become the central paradigm of Yoruba metaphysical thought.

In Awo Fatunmbi’s words: “The world begins with one … the one that is formed through perfect balance between the powers of expansion and contraction, light and dark, … the balance between the masculine and feminine powers … and that one is a microcosm of all that is…"


He has compared the chain to the double helix of DNA and the pieces of iron to Ogun as the ‘primer of evolution'. According to modern science, iron molecules at the bottom of the ocean are believed to have interacted with oxygen to create the first organisms on earth.

Continuing the creation myth, Obatala was successful up to a point. He was unable to create civilization because he lacked the proper technology. Ogun was called in to continue the job. But Ogun, although very good at establishing civilizations, is not good at ‘running' them. In comes Orumiela to establish ethics and order; to temper Ogun’s primal energy. Obatala creates, but it is Ogun who moves creation, ‘Ogun is evolutionary energy.'

Keep in mind that Orisa and other entities featured in Yoruba myths, itan and Odu bear deep philosophical connotations that begin from the metaphysical meaning descending into the aesthetic and then epistemological through to ethical meanings and, eventually, to positive or negative social effects (it is easy to get caught up in the personalities themselves). Individual metaphysical phenomena come together as a unity of substances in a universe of relativistic existence (Okunmakinde).

This idea is expressed in the most compelling part of the story; the Snail Shell full of earth-dust.


*In the Odu Okanran Ogunda* ;
there is another version of the creation myth that is not well known. In this version, it is Orumiela (the Prophet, Orisa that represents Eledumare’s wisdom) who carries the snail shell full of the substance which creates land upon the primordial waters. The Snail Shell was taken from the seat of Olodumare and given to Orunmiela with the authority to create the earth. In the process of creation, ‘ Orumiela dipped his hands into the snail shell and took out measures of earth-dust (Oro, primordial matter) with which land was created on the primordial waters.

Olu317:
Imagery indeed. So, pitchfork....

What are you on about you this guy?

The staff isnt a pitchfork.

A pitchfork is a garden tool used for clearing hay.

You have gotten it all wrong dude.

Yoruba are a real and proper ethnicity that originates in Nigeria, Africa.

Hebrews are a fictional people based off malicious literature.

Olu317:
I can't reply you as you desire because of BOT. So, don't misunderstood my conception on response that I need reply you . But the reality is that, I will opine my view based on information from authored works and not self.

Take for instance, your mention on Arabic which I posted but unfortunately, the inscription of Arabic didn't appear as it ought to be.

(1) Got the BOT gist!

(2) The point I made about the Arabic is that you simply lifted the whole text (including the Arabic) from elsewhere without being mindful of what you're lifting.

In other words, you actually do not know Arabic, otherwise you would have realized what's wrong with those Arabic words you pasted.

But if you think you do know Arabic, then point out what your error there is, and also show the correction.

To me, it seems to be all about attention.

Olu317:
Migration from the east is absolutely out of the question. It was alien to the Yorubas' history and thoughts about their own origin. Lol! How are you sure with Oru as a place Yoruba lived ?

Although myths are over-the-centuries exaggerations, modifications and distortions of some kernel of very ancient truth and fact; historians (unlike lay-persons) consider it a very important task to discern these nucleus of ancient truths and facts.

My research work on this:
There is no exaggeration about migration because there are many places Yoruba migrated to and it is recorded in other Yoruba towns.

A patient and careful look through the many versions of the Yoruba myth of creation & origin (including the latter versions which feature Oduduwa, Obatala, et al.) reveals this basic kernel of ancient truth and fact which have been wrapped up over the centuries by layers of exaggerations, modifications, and distortions.

This kernel of truth and fact which appears in all the different versions of the Yoruba myth of origin & creation are:

(a) The Yorubas consistently assert (through all the many versions of the myth) that they are not originally alien to their present region.

This information is incorrect. What is your Oriki? Seemingly Ora(Or/Awra) exist in Egypt, Yoruba land , Israel, Irak

(b) The Yorubas consistently assert (through all the many versions of the myth) that their first homeland (in this region) is a place characterized by a very large body of water.

scholars different from your school of thought :
This large body of water can't be Niger Benue because, linguistically, culturally, the Yoruba language didn't developed in Niger Benue Basin. This is fallacy !

These logical deductions from the extant Yoruba traditions is clearly in reasonable agreement with the scientific conlusions reached unanimously today by the body of historical scholarship -- both indigenous and non-indigenous.

My view!
Untrue because of the two information I posited don't agree with your view.

This scientific conclusion says that the first and original home of the ethnic and linguistic group of people known today as the Yorubas is to be found within today's Nigeria specifically around the Niger-Benue confluence.

History of Yoruba's:

No Sir, the Yoruba language doesn't match Niger Benue language and ethnic group don't agree culturally.

I have earlier touched on this where I cited S. A. Akintoye's reference to the traditional accounts about the roots of the man Oduduwa. See below one more time:

My view:
Your citation is null and void because, authored books.

What about the man Oduduwa? What does Yoruba traditional accounts say about his roots before Sultan Bello (followed by S. Johnson) made him into an Arab?

Oral account claims some of the following :

The Ado claim, the name is a wife to obatala.

The name preceded Yoruba state in Nigeria.

The Ileife calls him and his group as usurper

The Ilaje, of Oluigbo claims, the man is a foreigner etc

What about the man Oduduwa? What does Yoruba traditional accounts say about his roots before Sultan Bello (followed by S. Johnson) made him into an Arab?

Sultan Bello's account, is true though with moderation , as far as I am concerned because, the Sultan don't care who is Yoruba or not !

Oral account claims some of the following:

The Ado claim, the name is a wife to obatala.

The name preceded Yoruba state in Nigeria.

The Ileife calls him and his group as usurper

The Ilaje(part of Ilaje) claims, the man is a foreigner etc

The Ijebu{part of Ijebu} claims, they are older than him


Yoruba creation myth:

These creation myth are three in nature :


Interestingly, in the creation of myth of Yoruba, there are three version and didn't support your view on creation, in which two are more popular. These two version have both Obatla and odudua,while one is virtually for Ela(Orumiela). Mind you, I am tempted to ask you, if Ifaodu is Yoruba's or foreign ?




1. Orisanla’ (Obatala’):- It was the arch-divinity who was chosen by eledumare, the supreme deity to create a solid land out of the primordial abyss that constituted the earth and of populating the land with human beings. He descended from Orun (the invisible realm, the realm of the ancestors) into Aiye (the visible realm) on a chain, carrying a snail shell full of earth, palm kernels and a five-toed chicken.

He was to empty the content of the snail shell on the water after placing some pieces of iron on it, and then to place the chicken on the earth to spread it over the primordial water by doing what chickens do, which is to scratch at the ground.

According to this above version of the myth, Obatala completed this task to the satisfaction of Ele-dumare. He was then given the task of making the physical body of human beings after which Ele-dumare would give them the breath of life (emi). He also completed this task and this is why he has the title of "Obarisa" the king of Orisas.


2. The other variant of the cosmogenic myth does not credit Obatala with the completion of the task.

While it concedes that Obatala was given the task, it avers that Obatala got drunk on palm wine even before he got to the earth and he fell asleep. Ele-dumare got worried when he did not return on time, so he sent Oduduwa, Obatala’s younger brother, to find out what was going on. When Oduduwa found Obatala drunk, he simply took over the task and completed it.

He created land. The spot on which he landed from Orun and which he redeemed from water to become land is called Ile-Ife, considered the sacred and spiritual home of the Yoruba.

Obatala was embarrassed when he woke up and, due to this experience, he made it a taboo for any of his devotees to drink alcoholic beverages.

Ele-dumare forgave him and gave him the responsibility of molding the physical bodies of human beings out of clay

(in another version)
Obatala was drunk when making the bodies and some came out a bit off. That is why Obatala is the Orisa of hunchbacks, and the disabled in general as well as albinos).

The making of land is a symbolic reference to the founding of the Yoruba kingdoms, and this is why Oduduwa is credited with that achievement. Oduduwa’s progeny were sixteen in number and became Kings.

So Oduduwa was the first king of the Yoruba nation and founded Ile Ife, the ancient capital, creating a succession of kings all related to him.

However, this version incorporates history into the creation myth. It establishes the divine nature of the founder Oduduwa. Before the time of Oduduwa, the story did not involve Obatala getting drunk and Oduduwa finishing the job.


What is important is the symbolism. The chain is representative of Ogun, the five toed chicken Osun, and the palm kernels, Orunmila. These Orisa, in combination represent unity and a balance of forces.
Unity and balance
(in a cosmos of dualities and diversity) become the central paradigm of Yoruba metaphysical thought.

In Awo Fatunmbi’s words:
The world begins with one … the one that is formed through perfect balance between the powers of expansion and contraction, light and dark, … the balance between the masculine and feminine powers … and that one is a microcosm of all that is…


He has compared the chain to the double helix of DNA and the pieces of iron to Ogun as the ‘primer of evolution'.

According to modern science, iron molecules at the bottom of the ocean are believed to have interacted with oxygen to create the first organisms on earth.

Continuing the creation myth, Obatala was successful up to a point. He was unable to create civilization because he lacked the proper technology. Ogun was called in to continue the job. But Ogun, although very good at establishing civilizations, is not good at ‘running' them. In comes Orumiela to establish ethics and order; to temper Ogun’s primal energy. Obatala creates, but it is Ogun who moves creation, ‘Ogun is evolutionary energy.'

Keep in mind that Orisa and other entities featured in Yoruba myths, itan and Odu bear deep philosophical connotations that begin from the metaphysical meaning descending into the aesthetic and then epistemological through to ethical meanings and, eventually, to positive or negative social effects (it is easy to get caught up in the personalities themselves). Individual metaphysical phenomena come together as a unity of substances in a universe of relativistic existence (Okunmakinde).

This idea is expressed in the most compelling part of the story; the Snail Shell full of earth-dust.


*In the Odu Okanran Ogunda* ;
there is another version of the creation myth that is not well known. In this version, it is Orumiela (the Prophet, Orisa that represents Eledumare’s wisdom) who carries the snail shell full of the substance which creates land upon the primordial waters. The Snail Shell was taken from the seat of Olodumare and given to Orunmila with the authority to create the earth. In the process of creation, ‘ Orumiela dipped his hands into the snail shell and took out measures of earth-dust (Oro, primordial matter) with which land was created on the primordial waters.





1. Orisanla’ (Obatala’):- It was the arch-divinity who was chosen by eledumare, the supreme deity to create a solid land out of the primordial abyss that constituted the earth and of populating the land with human beings. He descended from Orun (the invisible realm, the realm of the ancestors) into Aiye (the visible realm) on a chain, carrying a snail shell full of earth, palm kernels and a five-toed chicken.

He was to empty the content of the snail shell on the water after placing some pieces of iron on it, and then to place the chicken on the earth to spread it over the primordial water by doing what chickens do, which is to scratch at the ground.

According to this above version of the myth, Obatala completed this task to the satisfaction of Ele-dumare. He was then given the task of making the physical body of human beings after which Ele-dumare would give them the breath of life (emi). He also completed this task and this is why he has the title of "Obarisa" the king of Orisas.


2. The other variant of the cosmogenic myth does not credit Obatala with the completion of the task.

While it concedes that Obatala was given the task, it avers that Obatala got drunk on palm wine even before he got to the earth and he fell asleep. Ele-dumare got worried when he did not return on time, so he sent Oduduwa, Obatala’s younger brother, to find out what was going on. When Oduduwa found Obatala drunk, he simply took over the task and completed it.

He created land. The spot on which he landed from Orun and which he redeemed from water to become land is called Ile-Ife, considered the sacred and spiritual home of the Yoruba.

Obatala was embarrassed when he woke up and, due to this experience, he made it a taboo for any of his devotees to drink alcoholic beverages.

Ele-dumare forgave him and gave him the responsibility of molding the physical bodies of human beings out of clay

(in another version)
Obatala was drunk when making the bodies and some came out a bit off. That is why Obatala is the Orisa of hunchbacks, and the disabled in general as well as albinos).

The making of land is a symbolic reference to the founding of the Yoruba kingdoms, and this is why Oduduwa is credited with that achievement. Oduduwa’s progeny were sixteen in number and became Kings.

So, Oduduwa was the first king of the Yoruba nation and founded Ile Ife, the ancient capital, creating a succession of kings all related to him.

However, this version incorporates history into the creation myth. It establishes the divine nature of the founder Oduduwa. Before the time of Oduduwa, the story did not involve Obatala getting drunk and Oduduwa finishing the job.


What is important is the symbolism. The chain is representative of Ogun, the five toed chicken Osun, and the palm kernels, Orunmila. These Orisa, in combination represent unity and a balance of forces.
Unity and balance
(in a cosmos of dualities and diversity) become the central paradigm of Yoruba metaphysical thought.

In Awo Fatunmbi’s words:

The world begins with one … the one that is formed through perfect balance between the powers of expansion and contraction, light and dark, … the balance between the masculine and feminine powers … and that one is a microcosm of all that is…


He has compared the chain to the double helix of DNA and the pieces of iron to Ogun as the ‘primer of evolution'.

According to modern science, iron molecules at the bottom of the ocean are believed to have interacted with oxygen to create the first organisms on earth.

Continuing the creation myth, Obatala was successful up to a point. He was unable to create civilization because he lacked the proper technology. Ogun was called in to continue the job. But Ogun, although very good at establishing civilizations, is not good at ‘running' them. In comes Orumiela to establish ethics and order; to temper Ogun’s primal energy. Obatala creates, but it is Ogun who moves creation, ‘Ogun is evolutionary energy.'

Keep in mind that Orisa and other entities featured in Yoruba myths, itan and Odu bear deep philosophical connotations that begin from the metaphysical meaning descending into the aesthetic and then epistemological through to ethical meanings and, eventually, to positive or negative social effects (it is easy to get caught up in the personalities themselves). Individual metaphysical phenomena come together as a unity of substances in a universe of relativistic existence (Okunmakinde).

This idea is expressed in the most compelling part of the story; the Snail Shell full of earth-dust.


*In the Odu Okanran Ogunda* ;
there is another version of the creation myth that is not well known. In this version, it is Orumiela (the Prophet, Orisa that represents Eledumare’s wisdom) who carries the snail shell full of the substance which creates land upon the primordial waters. The Snail Shell was taken from the seat of Olodumare and given to Orunmila with the authority to create the earth. In the process of creation, ‘ Orumiela dipped his hands into the snail shell and took out measures of earth-dust (Oro, primordial matter) with which land was created on the primordial waters.

Can you please modify your post here so that my words which you're responding to are within "[/quote]" and "[quote]" (in the proper order)? Thanks!

That way it becomes easier for me or anyone to follow through and make sense of your response -- if you intend your response to be addressed or at least read and understood.

But leaving your response mixed with mine without any delineation makes the whole thing appear convoluted, and makes it look like you're simply pooling the wool over your audience's eyes -- by giving an untrue impression of reply.

Looking for a relationship between Yoruba and Hebrew is similar to seeking to find a relationship between Nelson Mandela and Bazoka Joe.

Nelson Mandela is a real person, Bazoka Joe is a cartoon character.

Its pretty simple, we MUST bin all these foreign extremist religions and focus our concentration on reality.

And the reality is that Yoruba are indigenous to Nigeria, Africa.

OmoOlofin:


Can you please modify your post here so that my words which you're responding to are within "" and "" (in the proper order)? Thanks!

That way it becomes easier for me or anyone to follow through and make sense of your response -- if you intend your response to be addressed or at least read and understood.

But leaving your response mixed with mine without any delineation makes the whole thing appear convoluted, and makes it look like you're simply pooling the wool over your audience's eyes -- by giving an untrue impression of reply.

Hey TAO, the dude called Olu317 isnt a real one, he's a whind up merchant.

He's trying to demonise our history.

Hebrew as Eburu in Yoruba

I've often spoke of the Iba in Osun state as one of the reminders of the Yoruba Hebrew heritage. My best man was from this place. He's a cousin to the basketball star, Oyedeji of Iba royalty.

Recently, I found out that the title of the king of this ancient town is known as "Eburu of Iba". Iba featured in the oriki Eletu Iwase, where it says "omo sese niba". That's a "recollection line".

The Yoruba had need for some words for memorial, some folks will likely do the needful for all, guarding it jealously in their area code or other mementos convinient to them.

Since there were no books, where to keep such memorial becomes something else The value ascribed to a word could make the custodians stick it to their royal title, where it's preserved until times like this.

Nigeria is giving to us, Africa is for a giving. We have no trace of "Yoruba" in Yoruba antiquity until the 19th century. These nomenclatures are the true definition of bazooka Jo in our history.

But here's a word, Eburu that is enigmatic, stating at us as would Hebrew in our language. Iba, like the root Eber from where Eber or Hebrew trace descent.

Now Eburu of Iba is conformity to some kind of unexplainable harmonious pattern, Hebrew of Eber And just as we have it in the oriki Eletu Iwase, omo sese niba, Iba is the origin of the Iwase.

The place name is also a memento.

This thread gives a good watershed on how indoctrination works.

The tool of indoctrination is to make less of you or your honest idea of something for more of the indoctrinators'. Doing this, indoctrination works.

Everyone has a filter by which they sees the world. That filter suits barely anything they may need to idealise or deliberate upon to make choices.

To make changes, you must alter a filter and sees the world of an idea from the changer's filter, without which change is impossible.

This thread is all about indoctrinators. None of the contributors were born into any of the idea in their coffers at the moment.

Every intelligible individual is honest to himself about what he's doing and what he believes. He strife to duplicate his thought in others through his filter

So what makes the difference?

Every one is fighting for their favorite religion . Everyone has one. You are either a Muslim or Christian, you can't possibly be both at all times.

The third religion on this thread is atheism. It's a condition of no religion: he's not a deist, agnostic pantheist or skeptist. A radical atheist can be openly aversed to organize religion.

Being an atheist and condemning religion or abrahamic faith for instance doesn't do the work of "history" and may likely become "history in avarice".

That's a constant and vehement sorrow. It's a condition not to live in. So, the readers are exposed to this horde of indoctrinators from the faithfuls here.

Nobody is clean here.

But the fact of the matter can filter through in the brawl for the intellectual. The purpose of the thread, does it transcend the religion of the OP?

Good, where do we find information that is wholy dedicated to Yoruba history or tradition? Mostly from the proponents of the idea of this thread.

The atheist may adopt pagan ideal or claim to be a fervent traditionalist, but that should speak through their contributions. A traditionalist is not an historian.

Tradition is a prove of prudence.

In order words, this thread is not about attitude problem, but solving an intellectual problem. You can't solve this problem on religion, but prudence.

Somebody said I created a problem for myself and bring Yoruba into it. Well if a scientist observe a pattern and it's regular, he studies it.

A scientist studying a pattern is observing a scientific pattern, a mathematician, historian or a Yoruba observing Yoruba pattern is observing Yoruba historical patterns.

Now the point of this post is this: this thread is dedicated to the title it bears. Folks opposed to the idea lack traditional information.

They were either aversed to it, tolerate it but underneath perceive it as archaic and unconnected to the "history" or it's watershed.

So in place of tradition, all manner of allegations and allegiance goes. With that, the more you look through them to pick traditional ideas the less you see.

They're replacing tradition with metascience. Like saying "Olodumare is cosmic energy." That's neither tradition nor science, it's both.

So the reader should see through all.

@Olu,

God bless your wit. Your post is quite breathtaking.

History weathered into folk tradition in preliterate societies around the world.

Today, tradition will be consulted to ferret our forgotten history.

absoluteSuccess:
Working with etymological homophones

Etymology is the study of the original meaning of a given word. Let's say inflection for instance. The original phrase is Latin, "in flecto", meaning "I bend".

1. Homophones are mostly bends of the same thinking. Homophones don't just happen, there's a reason or more why some words sounds similar in Yoruba and probably other languages.

2. My interpretations should not just occur to me and me alone without any means of validation. The Yoruba language is quite robust with great dynamics. So we have "cloud of witnesses" at our disposal.

And since we're not citing any published Yoruba thesaurus here for the "efiwe" that would not accept principles that's not been tested, how for do? The rule of the thumb is to improvise for one, how?

Consult other wordset where the same syllable has been used in the same culture to mean exactly the same thing from the world go. We'll use ilu as a case study.

3. A good instance is in the oriki orile: Ijebu ode, ajagbalura. From the term ajagbalura, we can see an ancient use. Lú in Yoruba is to burrow through, to punch through, to 'dalu'.

Dálu, meaning "perforate" come across in the same structure as dálû, meaning "create city". At Ado, the ancestors were revered as "owun adaludo", people who created town to dwell in it.

Da implies the origin and lu, opening. We can also say "o lu ja ara" (the points are connected). It's not an accident that the word next to lu is ja, both words are synonyms. Let's do a review.

Interrelativity of homophones

The relationship between ilu as town and ilu as drum is because drum of those times had to be made from wood burrowed through from one end to the other. Thus, lu is to "ja oju meji si'ra won lati selu".

One of the synonyms, lu is what became ilu. The other synonym, ja is the Yoruba for oja, believed to be the foundation of town in early Yoruba, such that ancient kings were called Oloja. Reminder of the correlation of this to Olu.

From this perspective, Olu has the credential of being a "pioneer" in Yoruba history coupled with other primary attributes we may ascribe to it, as it said "idalu niselu". Olu is the "opener", like we have in "taye l'olu ejire".

Today, we can say "bawo ni mo se le ja si...?" There's a programed rule that would disuade us from saying "bawo ni mo se le lu si?" We can't reinvent the wheel.

This is because lu is the original process of burrowing to a new travel destination. Ja on the other hand is using the laid down route to the intended destination.

Thus, the Yoruba word for town developed from the psyche of a traveler who sees town not as "town" (because he's not thinking Anglophone) but as "route" to burst out elsewhere.

The problems I've created

Linguistics is the framework for an in-depth studies of various attributes of words or vocabularies in a language. I'm more of a scientist. No ordering around but sticking to guide.

I am actually thinking in the HTML language by which Yoruba language is written. We are not speaking Yoruba in this language, but we're speaking Yoruba in the interface.

There's sharp contrast between a programmer and a user. A user sees what the programmer wants the user to see. But underneath that runs codes that makes the site work, in ways that will appear gibberish to the user.

4 If I says in Yoruba, "e yoju", I mean "let me see you in a jiffy". But word for word, I've just said "pluck out the eyes". We never hear that version but the version we were "programmed" to hear.

So we heard the frame in it's interface. To understand the program language means we'll learn from the original wordsmiths and think like one.

And we'll always run into trouble with interface users.

1. Homophones are not mostly of the same thought
Check any examples of homophones and more than half the words are not etymologically related.

Eye / I
Bare / bear
be / bee
Sauce / source
Too / two

Then examples of etymologically related ones are
Brake / break


Sure you could call my examples biased but I'd like to see anyone make a list from the top of their head in one minute like I just did with more etymologically related homophones

Yoruba is tonal for a reason. Those tones are there for a purpose. Unlike in non tonal languages, where words spelt alike are most certainly etymologically related
In tonal languages like all languages of the Kwa language family, words spelt alike Eg. "Ìlú" and "ìlù" would have very different etymologies
Infact due to Palatalisation, you would be surprised that etymons often aren't visibly identifiable... One Reason why imagination can never beat professionalism

Relax and let linguists do their thing. Or you go study for it, since you talk about Languages all the time

Funny how someone who claims to be a bonified Yoruba who decides who is yoruba and who is not doesn't know the basic property of the Yoruba language


2. Unfortunately, your interpretations are you and you alone. Even your band doesn't interpret them like you
MetaPhysical said Sigidi is "prostrating" you said it is "open wood" something something

Would be great if your interpretations were the case because they sure are exciting and unsuspecting individuals would be drawn to it.
I mean Sigidi, Ṣí igi
Exciting stuff but anybody can do this

3. With your limited grasp of the Yoruba words, it would be wise to take caution in interpreting people's oriki.
That's how you interpreted nonsense with the oriki of the eletu Iwase and that of babtoundey here on nairaland

Futhermore, Lú does not mean "opening" or "burrow through" like an animal, it means to mix or mingle (together : Lúpọ̀).. To commune (be a community)
Hence Ìlú or Èlú or even Pẹ̀lú
It has nothing to do with "ìlù" (drum) from lù (beat, hit)

4. Stop trying to sound like you have esoteric training on yoruba language.
Certain things are obvious enough for everyone to see
You are not a programmer type personage of yoruba

Futhermore, "yọjú" interpreted as "pluck eyes" is lazy
It would make more sense for Yọ to be interpreted as "make visible" (to appear out) not "pluck"
Máa yọ si wọn.. Can be said to be "I will appear to them"
Yọ jáde, (make to) appear outside [to remove/bring out] . Yọ kúrò (appear away) remove

So yọjú is "make your face/eyes visible/appear" [let me see you]

OmoOlofin:


lú does not mean bypass,

He has given multiple somewhat unrelated meanings to Lú
Bypass, enroute, open, burrow

Olu317:
Imagery indeed. So, pitchfork , Axe, and horn doesn't have meaning in Yoruba land ? I mock you macof!

Continue mocking.

The small change they are giving you to attempt to Abrahamize Yoruba and mock her history will put you in trouble if care is not taken

BabaRamota1980:
Macof, i think you dont like me because you think im opposite to your position. Only God knows what we don't. This Yoruba history get as e be. It is confusing. I like this thread because i learn in here. I learn from you, i learn from absolutsucces, i learn from obalufon, obalufon III, i learn from metaphysical, i learn from olu13. So you guys dont even know that you are influencers. . How many obalufon dey here sef? . I go come back and read again in 2021. I want some good stuff, not fight and ijogbon. One day when im well equipped me sef go be ogbologbo and can join and talk Yoruba history with solid and firm convinction.

My guy, nothing in my post suggests that I care if you are of my stand on yoruba origin or not

You simply didn't understand what you were quoting and what I've been posting on this thread. There's a great wealth of debunking I've done here
Read through it and understand

Yoruba history is confusing because no be your work
I sure sey your work go confuse me too
There's nothing wrong with learning and collecting information, but if you want to be ogbologbo you have to verify every information by asking questions
Who no sabi defend him claim na fraud

absoluteSuccess:


Bro, no two culture forms their words based on exactly the same lexis and structure. Often, to find a word that's a perfect match for another from all antiquity may require settling for the closest possible options.

What I'm referring to is "ì/lú", since that's what we are talking about at that point and not any other, just to limit confusion that never was but must be discovered for ulterior motives.

Oh. But this doesn't apply to Yoruba and Hebrew because according to you, there's a perfect match to Hebrew words found in Yorùbá

Z

OmoOlofin:


(1) Got the BOT gist!

(2) The point I made about the Arabic is that you simply lifted the whole text (including the Arabic) from elsewhere without being mindful of what you're lifting.

In other words, you actually do not know Arabic, otherwise you would have realized what's wrong with those Arabic words you pasted.

But if you think you do know Arabic, then point out what your error there is, and also show the correction.

To me, it seems to be all about attention.

Obviously, it seems you mistook me for another person because, I didn't mention, anywhere, that I have Arabic language's knowledge, though I only cites information as written in Romaniced Orthography of same Arabic . Interestingly I stay within the knowledge I have in Classic Hebrew.

What attention do I seek ? I don't seem to know if I seek attention but I only post online to relay information as seen by me in research work while I expose all about the classic Hebrew that begun its transliteration and translation in English languished, around 1611AD or thereabouts .It is that simple.

Amujale:


What are you on about you this guy?

The staff isnt a pitchfork.

A pitchfork is a garden tool used for clearing hay.

You have gotten it all wrong dude.

Yoruba are a real and proper ethnicity that originates in Nigeria, Africa.

Hebrews are a fictional people based off malicious literature.

I dont get your post as stated as, ★“ what are you on about,this guy?" ★ Rephrase your question and let me answer you.


★ Secondly, it is a ★Pitchforks "★

a. What is a Pitchfork?
Pitchfork is a garden tool but used as an inscription in the ancient order,to connote ideograms, religious practise of such ethnic group , Kingdom, or empire that lived in the ancient times. Although, during advent of Romans Catholic Christianity era, the sign was later seen as devil's fork. And it became associated with Devil.

Interestingly, TAO11, had posted previously the closer monument of Ooni pictograph,which wax dug out Bini palace.Lo and behold, the statue represent a Pope like figure. Perhaps, you will poat any ethnic group who had done such in West Africa if not related to Yoruba Race.


This is one of the reasons that, Professor Leo Frobenuis alerted the world of discovery of Mediterranean people who were lost as Yoruba people. Unfortunately, he couldnt prove it with accurate link to Hebrews. Despite the fact, that Miss Mary, A.C Burn, show form of connectivity of Yoruba and Hebrews. And as at the times when the professor wrote about this, the worlds Septuagint were still struggling to reconstruct the letters of the ideograms of the ancient Hebrews language in English version, which has a lot of inputs from it be it true or false cognate. Interestingly, the written English KJV Bible was in 1611 or thereabout,which had a different language,closely associated with Aramaic.

★ I didn't get the information wrong because, the inscription on Opa Oranmiyah, Ore groove are Artifacts which are ideograms, which Professor Susan Blier attempted to understand and interpreted via her own perspective

Are you aware that “eyes" inscription or drawn in Court of Yoruba walls do have meaning ?

You people underestimated Yoruba ancestors largely because, we have not match them pound for pound intellectually because they remained superior to us. And if you need know then embark on studying or to acquire Semitic interpretstion, on ideograms and throw your understanding back into the past to interprete their work from less curious devilish angle. Mind you, Opa Oranmiyah spot is a place where Kings are given sword of allegiance to Ileife, as having authority to be revered more as a king in his own Kingdom when such new King emerge in Yoruba settlement.

Well, you have right to offer your view on place of origin of Yoruba people but booka written ,such as AC.Burns has informed, Miss Mary too, are part of which Yoruba history is non from Nigeria. Are you aware that Chaldean, Coptic Egyptians language has cognate with Yoruba's in time past ? And on the part of Chaldean, it is obvious ,the language was connected to Classic Hebrew/ Phonecians ?

Hebrew were fiction? If Hebrww were fiction , then account of Assyrian text written when Israel , Gaza etc, were over ran by her won't appear. Perhaps, I will post the information on Assyrian control over Levants and neighboring places in your response.

Olu317:


Obviously, it seems you mistook me for another person because, I didn't mention, anywhere, that I have Arabic language's knowledge, though I only cites information as written in Romaniced Orthography of same Arabic. Interestingly I stay within the knowledge I have in Classic Hebrew.

What attention do I seek ? I don't seem to know if I seek attention but I only post online to relay information as seen by me in research work while I expose all about the classic Hebrew that begun its transliteration and translation in English languished, around 1611AD or thereabouts .It is that simple.

So, there is no such thing as "Romanized Orthography of ... Arabic". Such thing just does not exist.

"Big words" do not necessarily make us appear smart or versatile, especially when such words or terms do not even exist or make sense.

Moreover, the Arabic words in question made use of Arabic text.

I think it's hightime we learnt to stay within our limits, or rely on the expert submissions from outside of our limits.

Again, this ties-in to the attention-seeking point I stressed earlier.

YauYamba:


Been trying to type in the content of the attached, but spambot triggers won't let me.

By the way, I am the same member, with the usernames "OmoOlofin", "TAO11", and "TAO12".

See attached!

Thanks for the great insight bro, I know you are since you have "omo olofin ajaye" in your signature with the Tao moniker. Your input is very valid, no doubt. Its a continuation from where I possibly stopped as time could permit me. facts are meant to corroborate if its fact from either side.

I would like you to view it this way:

Iba transits to Oba, hence the proverb, "araba ni baba, eni aba laba ni baba". Aba has Baba, a fatherly or homely form of Oba.

Ilu transits to Olu, just as you have in "taiye l'olu ejire ara isokun". We can notice some sort of parallel here in how terms transit.

Iga transitive to Oga, from this we have the Ogaalu, so close to the idea of the drummer being "ayan omo agalu" which is as a result of the mindshare that the two term Ilu (drum) and ilu (town) shares.

The term Elu, which transitive form of it has penetrated the lexicon of the Yoruba as reflective of its historic of political relevance to a town other than your theory of its place in Yoruba history?

There should be a word or phrase lending credence to your theory from the peoples' usage of the inflection you are alluding to.

The Transformation Process of Aba to Ilu

Since we do not have to theorize, I do not need to bring anything else to the table as "elu" to influence my input because it may be a dialect from Ife, whereas we've been using the mainstream Yoruba for our discourse.

Whatever happened to "Ileto" to which you have the baale as the head? You may be familiar with the line "ile si ile, ileto si ileto''.

You are not conversant with this link "ileto" in your transformation of "aba" to "ilu", hence you have to bring "Elu" from a dialect of the Yoruba. Now I have given you yet another word in this respect. I have not gone to theorize any joke that you may have expected.

Next, let's assume I had that interpretation of Ilu as a figment of the imagination as you want us believe. Yet we seldom substitute some words for Ilu in Yorubaland. I could say, "'... abekuta". Here, I have the word.

I do not need to be the giver but receiver too. I like that you give me the other option if we are to bypass Ilu.`

Going by "the mix" Interpretation.

Ilu derived from lu, as you have it in 'luru" (mix of different kind) this tells us that different kinds of people Iba (father house, roots) came together at a given time to become Ilu. This simply mean we did not all have same origin or fanned out from one certain place at the time on your chronological gradient.

This etymology contradict your position on Yoruba as homogenic people.

Olu317:


I dont get your post as stated as, ★“ what are you on about,this guy?" ★ Rephrase your question and let me answer you.

It wasnt a question, rather a matter of fact.

[

Olu317:


I dont get your post as stated as, ★“ what are you on about,this guy?" ★ Rephrase your question and let me answer you.


★ Secondly, it is a ★Pitchforks "★

a. What is a Pitchfork?
Pitchfork is a garden tool but used as an inscription in the ancient order,to connote ideograms, religious practise of such ethnic group , Kingdom, or empire that lived in the ancient times... ..

Again, you're wrong.

Regardless of your false interpretation, Opa Oranyan is a staff/obelix.

You dont know what you're on about.

Olu317:


This is one of the reasons that, Professor Leo Frobenuis alerted the world of discovery of Mediterranean people who were lost as Yoruba people.

Not true, i'm well familiar with Leo Frobenius and his works on ethnology.

I have a book dedicated to all his works, there are a handful of his books that i havent read.

Apart from the fact that he approaches most of his writing from a Eurocentric viewpoint, and that there are many things that he just couldnt be expexted to understand, there's not one single book that he wrote stating anything of such.

Post the book where you are sourcing from or that simply proves my point