Obalufon:
kambari people of niger state are naked people that is even close to us

I wonder ooo bro, with assumption, when people pick up unverified information to assert that ancient Yoruba land, in a “Ghost Land" around Niger Benue confluence,without evidence.I just wonder.


Cheers

absoluteSuccess:


You definitely have better idea. Its a free forum. Kindly share your knowledge.

Make learning a fun, not a mortal combat.

Peace.

lu have so many meaning though depending on the usage and diacritics. Interestingly, Yoruba words and its English translation can be deceitful at times because, the real meaning may be difficult to conclude on,in its English form. Thus, I believe, “Lu" in this context can fit for the following words, such as through,thoroughfare, perforate,penetrate etc.


Cheers.

Olu317:
The Yoruba knot which is part of the Naira( Nigeria's currency is also found in Paleo Christian site . This knot is known as Solomon knot.
So, those who posited that Yoruba ancestors existed in Benue Confluence, should explain how the knot found in Yoruba culture, Near East, Rome etc are alike ? I am waiting!Below is as a screenshot of it.

Lmao. He said Yoruba knot known as Solomon's knot

These clowns

Olu317:
I wonder ooo bro, with assumption, when people pick up unverified information to assert that ancient Yoruba land, in a “Ghost Land" around Niger Benue confluence,without evidence.I just wonder.


Cheers

Experts from the fields of Linguistics, Genetics and Anthropology all provide empirical evidence that prompt the conclusion of historians that yoruba indeed originated from the Niger-benue Confluence as did many of the ethnicities in the Lower Guinea region

So it is not assumption without evidence. Several threads have posted reports of expert research on this
Maybe when I have time I will post some more reports

You can say whatever you like from now till you leave this world, the evidence is there. It only takes studying it

macof:

Lmao. He said Yoruba knot known as Solomon's knot

These clowns

Teacher, you try! Isn't it fair to be careful when you try to throw a mockery punchline ?
“These clowns " Indeed. I wonder if you do read your posts before you paste them for public consumption. So an individual has become a “plural" personage .

What do you even know about “knot" ? The knot in question, which I posted was drawn in to Nigeria's currency through Yoruba's knowledge of its usage in Yoruba's culture. Kindly go study, to avoid this embarrassment you dwell inn because your ignorance is beyond remedy.

macof:


Experts from the fields of Linguistics, Genetics and Anthropology all provide empirical evidence that prompt the conclusion of historians that yoruba indeed originated from the Niger-benue Confluence as did many of the ethnicities in the Lower Guinea region

So it is not assumption without evidence. Several threads have posted reports of expert research on this
Maybe when I have time I will post some more reports

You can say whatever you like from now till you leave this world, the evidence is there. It only takes studying it

Empirical study indeed. .So, Niger Benue Confluence is where Yoruba ethnic group migrated out from?smh. See, I don't have such time anymore to tolerate your kind because, you have no idea in the area, you are trespassing upon. C'est fini.

Olu317:
Teacher, you try! Isn't it fair to be careful when you try to throw a mockery punchline ?
“These clowns " Indeed. I wonder if you do read your post before public consumption. So an individual has become a “plural" .

What do you even know about “knot" ? Your ignorance is beyond remedy.

LOL. I didn't know you were an expert on knots
Yoruba knot is Solomon's knot

What wouldn't you clowns say out of desperation, your church must increase the pay they give you for this Abrahamization agenda, e no easy

Olu317:
lu have so many meaning though depending on the usage and diacritics. Interestingly, Yoruba words and its English translation can be deceitful at times because, the real meaning may be difficult to conclude on,in its English form. Thus, I believe, “Lu" in this context can fit for the following words, such as through,thoroughfare, perforate etc.


Cheers.

Very well said bro, just as in the sense, "aluyo ni ki temi o je" or to "luti", such as in pierced ears. That's the true transitive meaning of the subtle word.

Thus, lu (re) is where the verb is coming from. The Yoruba is like English in this sense where we have transitive verbs. Then when set theory applies, all are derivative of the original.

Nonetheless Tao made a succinct connection on the metamorphosis of Aba to ilu that I've learned from. You sure will be amazed at the mysteries behind our language.

Aba, a homestead. I think the script for baba runs from here in the coding of the ancestors. BaAba, Baaba, baba keepe, Ab'-aba: baba Aba. Abi Aba means the owner of the homestead.

Iba, a homestead too favoured by Tao, but it's subtly connected to a "Reverend" father, or a venerable father. Iba Gani Adams comes to mind, or more historical, Iba Oluyole Igbo. Perhaps this variant is the particular source for Oba. Iba- Oba.

Baale, baale.

Baale mi, my husband, "baale" town Head, baale is the master of the house, father of the house. Baale, town Head. Its Ile that to (ileto) to become a town presided over by the baale.

But its also said, "baale okoolu". Then baale (town) is derivative of baale (home). Then there's no difference in their origin in spite of vocal difference of the words.

The formation of natural group to title group still runs in Yoruba as of old. That's the connection that tao's contribution helps unravelled. Things still exists that we can't see until someone stumble upon them.

You have a great mental strength bro. I always respect your inputs.

absoluteSuccess:


Very well said bro, just as in the sense, "aluyo ni ki temi o je" or to "luti", such as in pierced ears. That's the true transitive meaning of the subtle word.

Thus, lu (re) is where the verb is coming from. The Yoruba is like English in this sense where we have transitive verbs. Then when set theory applies, all are derivative of the original.

Nonetheless Tao made a succinct connection on the metamorphosis of Aba to ilu that I've learned from. You sure will be amazed at the mysteries behind our language.

Aba, a homestead. I think the script for baba runs from here in the coding of the ancestors. BaAba, Baaba, baba keepe, Ab'-aba: baba Aba. Abi Aba means the owner of the homestead.

Iba, a homestead too favoured by Tao, but it's subtly connected to a "Reverend" father, or a venerable father. Iba Gani Adams comes to mind, or more historical, Iba Oluyole Igbo. Perhaps this variant is the particular source for Oba. Iba- Oba.

Baale, baale.

Baale mi, my husband, "baale" town Head, baale is the master of the house, father of the house. Baale, town Head. Its Ile that to (ileto) to become a town presided over by the baale.

But its also said, "baale okoolu". Then baale (town) is derivative of baale (home). Then there's no difference in their origin in spite of vocal difference of the words.

The formation of natural group to title group still runs in Yoruba as of old. That's the connection that tao's contribution helps unravelled. Things still exists that we can't see until someone stumble upon them.

You have a great mental strength bro. I always respect your inputs.

In my own dialect, Abba or Àbá(due to new Yoruba language not tolerating two consonants together except 'gb', though we still have 'Kabba, Atta, etc') simply means 'Father'; Àba = someone over all. Àbarìṣà = Father lord or Father of all Oriṣa. Àbá or Àba rẹ = your father, for instance, Àba rẹ a gbe ọ. It's for God, Àbá Eledumare or oldest/elderly male or father, which has variation like 'Iba' or to some extent 'Baba'.

Until we overcome self egos, emotions and ready to tolerate others' views and works to reach harmonized agreement, that's when we would have common Yorubas' history.

If we think about experts, experts and without doing anything now, then we are failing... but I appreciate what we're doing here because everything is documented on the web whether it's the truth or not. However, it's better than what we had centuries ago, only oral and few documentation. We can weigh all this using what we have at hand, e.g, artifacts, dialects, culture and traditions to reveal who we are.

We deceive ourselves if we just conclude that Yorubas have just one creation in one place, one migration or one source. There are actually numerous oral traditions, hence some confusion. To begin with, several historians had concluded that people were not in West Africa about 10,000 years ago. The Sahara desert was not also a desert at a time in history. I believe with more archeological works, a lot of things will be discovered but for our tropical region, this is difficult.

When I was growing up, I used to sit with my very old grandmothers and all I always wanted from them was what happened in those days, what their fathers, great grandparents told them, not stories or àlọ̀. I was surprised that most things I had from them are also those things in the documented history of my town, though fewer and some others...

From the story of my town...we have main four sets of people, the most ancient which I always relate to be the same at Iwo Eleru, I called them the Atlantis, my people called them something like the 'Irahurẹ'. The second group are the 'Ulesun people', these are Obatala people who worshipped lots of gods and looked to Ìfẹ... People like Agboniregun baba ifá, Ogun Onire, etc. According to the 'Itan' in my place, these people were later joined by another set of people who were very related to them but were from the east (maybe river Niger area because their leader is called atta till today, e.g Atta of Aiyede). My own family was among the 3rd set, we came from Ìfẹ after settled near Ilésà, Owena, Oba-Ile, Bini, back to Ido - Ani, Emure, Àgbàdo, Ado and finally present town, where we met Urahurẹ́s and Ulesuns and became their kingship...The 4th sets of people had diverse origins, some are lighter in complexion and my people called them 'strange' people...

Today, we're the same people just like our older generations believe they were the same people with different migration periods. Each also had its oral history; one can choose anyone to follow or believe. They might have closely related dialects or not but almost same traditions in circumcision, naming their children 8th day, Akehinde gbegbon believe, believe in supreme God called Eledumare, Ẹlẹda,, Eledua, Aba'riṣa, etc. My people actually believe they are one, each house or family with what they worship except Eegun, no masquerades in my town. Our own is Ogun(definitely Lẹgbara inclusive) and Umọlẹ (there are Ẹpa and Oge); Some other families, IFA, Osun, Osanyin, etc. Ọpa (serious beating with Àtòrì is for every youth because we must be ready to endure pains). And in those days, when we wanted to marry, the male dipped his hand inside a gourd containing all sorts of poisonous snakes, Scorpion and stinging insects... to know whether he's ready to house a woman. In my family, we slaughtered ram and buffalo for male birth and marriage and death in those days but now mainly roosters but if you have money for ram, you go for it...

Oral traditions will definitely be varied and sometimes change with humans' input to suit their egos. there are two other sets of people I didn't talk about, the Muslims and Christians. If you meet every group today, each has its stories.
Let us find a common ground. Go back to your towns, find out their history...

According to Jeffrey, he says, “Thus the distinguished anthropologist , Lord Raglan,(1935:15) has laid it down that:.....no invention, discovery, custom,belief,or even stoey is known for certain to have originated in two separate culture." Braima Alias Abraham: A study in diffusion by M.D.W Jeffreys.
From the above information,it is obvious, nothing as cultural connection be it mode of worship or linguistic connection between Yoruba and Semitic group with being of same stock at early stage because. The written history of the Yorubas of Nigeria occurs in the Infakul,Maisuri of Sultan Muhammad Bello, in whch Arnett's (1930:16), translation runs: “ The people of Yoruba are descended from the Kanana and Kindred of Nimrod.

In conclusion of Lucas on the above information, he says, In spite of the fanciful character of Sultan Bello's view on the whole, his statement that the Yorubas "originated from the remnants of the children of Canaan who were of the tribe of Nimrod" demands further consideration.

Furthermore, Dr. Farrow too has collected interesting facts
the traditions, myths, customs, idioms and sacrifices of the Yorubas ,which Show distinct traces. Commenting on these facts he says, "Whilst they do not necessarily imply any trace of Semitic origin, they would seem to indicate that the Semitic Hebrews and the Negritic Yorubas belong to branches which at some early stage were united to a common stem."

Sir. A.C. Burns says, "it is probable that the Yorubas were not originally of negro blood."



While,the quest of Yoruba identity has been in obscurity, the Infakul of Sultan Muhammad Bello of Sokoto,has the account, which mentioned the root words for Yoruba as: Y R B (y r b).

Interestingly, in Semitic language:

“y " is yud, which is represented as yi, i, ee. The last two are used interchangeably with “y" if it is not the starting letter in a word.

R, is Reish ( head) which is represented with riii,ree sound~when pronounced

B is Bet, which is represented by b,bh

Thus, considering these root in the infakul , known as “y r b" are semitic and close reconstruction of the meaning, will give us what the probable pronunciation sound like and its meaning, which I had emphasised on previously. So, the forming of the root word to make more sence will in these following while using the Ancient Hebrew's Semitic Alphabet:

Yerab-yarob,eerab- irab-ærab-arab-yarab- Yoruba descendants. The above reconstruction ks based on Semitic inscription of Classic Hebrew. The most amazing is that the word being reconstructed is referino to a people, whose foundation is based on Shepherd & Priest called Araba who is orumiela, ; ba' araba aba(the first self creating powerful being to exist)

The information above is drawn from Clasic Hebrew alphabet, to interpret the meaning, the reconstruction o what the “Y R B" is . And these semitic root in Classic Hebrew begun with bilateral root and grew to trilateral root. So
Yareb,
Yareb,
Yarob,
Yarub,
irab,
æreb,
areb,
areb
Yarab,
Yoruba ; as a name is basically a product of Semitic root , R B(r b) ,which is Rab(Rabi). Interestingly, Ela is the Araba in Yoruba Ifaodu corpus which is the one whom we worship in awesome reverence( lit. to worship while one is crawling toward positioning). This can only point to the direction of what the account of Sultan Muhammad Bello,claimed that Yoruba are Canaan; Hebrew group, in the written script that was translated from Arabic script by different people.

Olu317:


According to Jeffrey, he says, “Thus the distinguished anthropologist , Lord Raglan,(1935:15) has laid it down that:.....no invention, discovery, custom,belief,or even stoey is known for certain to have originated in two separate culture." Braima Alias Abraham: A study in diffusion by M.D.W Jeffreys.
From the above information,it is obvious, nothing as cultural connection be it mode of worship or linguistic connection between Yoruba and Semitic group with being of same stock at early stage because. The written history of the Yorubas of Nigeria occurs in the Infakul,Maisuri of Sultan Muhammad Bello, in whch Arnett's (1930:16), translation runs: “ The people of Yoruba are descended from the Kanana and Kindred of Nimrod.

In conclusion of Lucas on the above information, he says, In spite of the fanciful character of Sultan Bello's view on the whole, his statement that the Yorubas "originated from the remnants of the children of Canaan who were of the tribe of Nimrod" demands further consideration.

Furthermore, Dr. Farrow too has collected interesting facts
the traditions, myths, customs, idioms and sacrifices of the Yorubas ,which Show distinct traces. Commenting on these facts he says, "Whilst they do not necessarily imply any trace of Semitic origin, they would seem to indicate that the Semitic Hebrews and the Negritic Yorubas belong to branches which at some early stage were united to a common stem."

Sir. A.C. Burns says, "it is probable that the Yorubas were not originally of negro blood."



While,the quest of Yoruba identity has been in obscurity, the Infakul of Sultan Muhammad Bello of Sokoto,has the account, which mentioned the root words for Yoruba as: Y R B (y r b).

Interestingly, in Semitic language:

“y " is yud, which is represented as yi, i, ee. The last two are used interchangeably with “y" if it is not the starting letter in a word.

R, is Reish ( head) which is represented with riii,ree sound~when pronounced

B is Bet, which is represented by b,bh

Thus, considering these root in the infakul , known as “y r b" are semitic and close reconstruction of the meaning, will give us what the probable pronunciation sound like and its meaning, which I had emphasised on previously. So, the forming of the root word to make more sence will in these following while using the Ancient Hebrew's Semitic Alphabet:

Yerab-yarob,eerab- irab-ærab-arab-yarab- Yoruba descendants. The above reconstruction ks based on Semitic inscription of Classic Hebrew. The most amazing is that the word being reconstructed is referino to a people, whose foundation is based on Shepherd & Priest called Araba who is orumiela, ; ba' araba aba(the first self creating powerful being to exist)

The information above is drawn from Clasic Hebrew alphabet, to interpret the meaning, the reconstruction o what the “Y R B" is . And these semitic root in Classic Hebrew begun with bilateral root and grew to trilateral root. So
Yareb,
Yareb,
Yarob,
Yarub,
irab,
æreb,
areb,
areb
Yarab,
Yoruba ; as a name is basically a product of Semitic root , R B(r b) ,which is Rab(Rabi). Interestingly, Ela is the Araba in Yoruba Ifaodu corpus which is the one whom we worship in awesome reverence( lit. to worship while one is crawling toward positioning). This can only point to the direction of what the account of Sultan Muhammad Bello,claimed that Yoruba are Canaan; Hebrew group, in the written script that was translated from Arabic script by different people.

what is the significant of 16. to yoruba tradition 16 odus

lx3as:


In my own dialect, Abba or Àbá(due to new Yoruba language not tolerating two consonants together except 'gb', though we still have 'Kabba, Atta, etc') simply means 'Father'; Àba = someone over all. Àbarìṣà = Father lord or Father of all Oriṣa. Àbá or Àba rẹ = your father, for instance, Àba rẹ a gbe ọ. It's for God, Àbá Eledumare or oldest/elderly male or father, which has variation like 'Iba' or to some extent 'Baba'.

Until we overcome self egos, emotions and ready to tolerate others views and works to reach harmonize agreement, that's when we would have common Yorubas' history.

If we think about experts, experts and without doing anything now, then we are failing... but I appreciate what we're doing here because everything is documented on the web whether it's the truth or not. However, it's better than what we had centuries ago, only oral and few documentation. We can weigh all this using what we have at hand, e.g, artifacts, dialects, culture and traditions to reveal who we are.

We deceive ourselves if we just conclude that Yorubas have just one creation in one place, one migration or one source. There are actually numerous oral traditions. To begin with, several historians had concluded that people were not in West Africa about 10,000 years ago. The Sahara desert was not also a desert at a time in history. I believe with more archeological works, a lot of things will be discovered but for our tropical region, this is difficult.

When I was growing up, I used to sit with my very old grandmothers and all I always wanted from them was what happened in those days, what their fathers, great grandparents told them, not stories or àlọ̀. I was surprised that most things I had from them are also those things in the documented history of my town, though fewer and some others...

From the story of my town...we have main four sets of people, the most ancient which I always relate to be the same at Iwo Eleru, I called them the Atlantis, my people called them something like the 'Irahurẹ'. The second group are the 'Ulesun people', these are Obatala people who worshipped lots of gods and looked to Ìfẹ... People like Agboniregun baba ifá, Ogun Onire, etc. According to the 'Itan' in my place, these people were later joined by another set of people who were very related to them but were from the east (maybe river Niger area because their leader is called atta till today, e.g Atta of Aiyede). My own family was among the 3rd set, we came from Ìfẹ after settled near Ilésà, Owena, Oba-Ile, Bini, back to Ido - Ani, Emure, Àgbàdo, Ado and finally present town, where we met Urahurẹ́s and Ulesuns and became their kingship...The 4th sets of people had diverse origins, some are lighter in complexion and my people called them 'strange' people...

Today, we're the same people just like our older generations believe they were the same people with different migration periods. Each also had its oral history; one can choose anyone to follow or believe. They might have closely related dialects or not but almost same traditions in circumcision, naming their children 8th day, Akehinde gbegbon believe, believe in supreme God called Eledumare, Ẹlẹda,, Eledua, Aba'riṣa, etc. My people actually believe they are one, each house or family with what they worship except Eegun, no masquerades in my town. Our own is Ogun(definitely Lẹgbara inclusive) and Umọlẹ (there are Ẹpa and Oge); Some other families, IFA, Osun, Osanyin, etc. Ọpa (serious beating with Àtòrì is for every youth because we must be ready to endure pains). And in those days, when we wanted to marry, the male dipped his hand inside a gourd containing all sorts of poisonous snakes, Scorpion and stinging insects... to know whether he's ready to house a woman. In my family, we slaughtered ram and buffalo for male birth and marriage and death in those days but now mainly roosters but if you have money for ram, you go for it...

Oral traditions will definitely be varied and sometimes change with humans' input to suit their egos. there are two other sets of people I didn't talk about, the Muslims and Christians. If you meet every group today, each has its stories.
Let us find a common ground. Go back to your towns, find out their history...

Thanks for your input. It is pertinent for the people who tried so much to affix the Yoruba identity to Niger Benue as the place of her origin, when infact, the reversal is the case of migration from Ileife that has always taken place to even Niger Benue confluence. So.pathetic

Secondly, in my part of Yoruba which is one of the numerous places where my ancestors migrated to, call father as Aba,Abba,Uba. These three are interchangeable. While mother is “ Iye "and not Iya as used often in generally Keoine language.

Thirdly, the Iwo Eleru people are not traceable in Yoruba bloodline. Perhaps, the earlier ancestors of Yoruba either assimilated or exterminated or chase many of these people out of her
contact with them. These people did have pygmy link dna link,whom the Yoruba called ‘Iwin'.

Fourthly, no matter how much you showcase glaring truh via ideograms knowledge on this platform, you have not done enough because one is tagged as non historian.These antagonists, will say Yoruba emerged from Niger Benue people yet no link with any group that have suvh information. And they do tbese damnation because they can't interpret the artifacts that are simply ideograms of Yorubas at the expense of lacking the interpenetrating such artifacts


Do these people know how cowries from Noeth Africa emerged in Yoruba land as a legal tender ?

Do these people know Yorubas arrow is not of West Africa's origin ?

Do these people know agada(scimitar) did not originate in Africa ?

Do these people even know that Yoruba language was once spoken jn Egypt as Coptic Egyptians language ?


Bro, let the antagonists continue but for awhile because once my book is ready in the future, they will have the opportunity to know meaning of some artifacts tbat have eluded their knowledge.

Olu317:


According to Jeffrey, he says, “Thus the distinguished anthropologist , Lord Raglan,(1935:15) has laid it down that:.....no invention, discovery, custom,belief,or even stoey is known for certain to have originated in two separate culture." Braima Alias Abraham: A study in diffusion by M.D.W Jeffreys.
From the above information,it is obvious, nothing as cultural connection be it mode of worship or linguistic connection between Yoruba and Semitic group with being of same stock at early stage because. The written history of the Yorubas of Nigeria occurs in the Infakul,Maisuri of Sultan Muhammad Bello, in whch Arnett's (1930:16), translation runs: “ The people of Yoruba are descended from the Kanana and Kindred of Nimrod.

In conclusion of Lucas on the above information, he says, In spite of the fanciful character of Sultan Bello's view on the whole, his statement that the Yorubas "originated from the remnants of the children of Canaan who were of the tribe of Nimrod" demands further consideration.

Furthermore, Dr. Farrow too has collected interesting facts
the traditions, myths, customs, idioms and sacrifices of the Yorubas ,which Show distinct traces. Commenting on these facts he says, "Whilst they do not necessarily imply any trace of Semitic origin, they would seem to indicate that the Semitic Hebrews and the Negritic Yorubas belong to branches which at some early stage were united to a common stem."

Sir. A.C. Burns says, "it is probable that the Yorubas were not originally of negro blood."



While,the quest of Yoruba identity has been in obscurity, the Infakul of Sultan Muhammad Bello of Sokoto,has the account, which mentioned the root words for Yoruba as: Y R B (y r b).

Interestingly, in Semitic language:

“y " is yud, which is represented as yi, i, ee. The last two are used interchangeably with “y" if it is not the starting letter in a word.

R, is Reish ( head) which is represented with riii,ree sound~when pronounced

B is Bet, which is represented by b,bh

Thus, considering these root in the infakul , known as “y r b" are semitic and close reconstruction of the meaning, will give us what the probable pronunciation sound like and its meaning, which I had emphasised on previously. So, the forming of the root word to make more sence will in these following while using the Ancient Hebrew's Semitic Alphabet:

Yerab-yarob,eerab- irab-ærab-arab-yarab- Yoruba descendants. The above reconstruction ks based on Semitic inscription of Classic Hebrew. The most amazing is that the word being reconstructed is referino to a people, whose foundation is based on Shepherd & Priest called Araba who is orumiela, ; ba' araba aba(the first self creating powerful being to exist)

The information above is drawn from Clasic Hebrew alphabet, to interpret the meaning, the reconstruction o what the “Y R B" is . And these semitic root in Classic Hebrew begun with bilateral root and grew to trilateral root. So
Yareb,
Yareb,
Yarob,
Yarub,
irab,
æreb,
areb,
areb
Yarab,
Yoruba ; as a name is basically a product of Semitic root , R B(r b) ,which is Rab(Rabi). Interestingly, Ela is the Araba in Yoruba Ifaodu corpus which is the one whom we worship in awesome reverence( lit. to worship while one is crawling toward positioning). This can only point to the direction of what the account of Sultan Muhammad Bello,claimed that Yoruba are Canaan; Hebrew group, in the written script that was translated from Arabic script by different people.

TAO11 has asked you
Why should the account of a fulani over the origin of the Yoruba people be held over the account of the Yoruba themselves?

Why do we call a story that was made to place Yoruba in the middle East only after Yoruba had come in contact with Muslims a Yoruba account? How is it Yoruba account when the Yoruba did not say this of themselves? But had to learn it from foreign Muslims who wanted to convert them?

While we are at accepting the account of others, why do we not accept the Bini account that says oduduwa is their Prince



If this were not sentimental attachments to the middle east due to religious indoctrination why would a Yoruba dump the traditional account for a fulani account of his origin that says he's from the middle east

Olu317:
Thanks for your input. It is pertinent for the people who tried so much to affix the Yoruba identity to Niger Benue as the place of her origin, when infact, the reversal is the case of migration from Ileife that has always taken place to even Niger Benue confluence. So.pathetic

Secondly, in my part of Yoruba which is one of the numerous places where my ancestors migrated to, call father as Aba,Abba,Uba. These three are interchangeable. While mother is “ Iye "and not Iya as used often in generally Keoine language.

Thirdly, the Iwo Eleru people are not traceable in Yoruba bloodline. Perhaps, the earlier ancestors of Yoruba either assimilated or exterminated or chase many of these people out of her
contact with them. These people did have pygmy link dna link,whom the Yoruba called ‘Iwin'.

Fourthly, no matter how much you showcase glaring truh via ideograms knowledge on this platform, you have not done enough because one is tagged as non historian.These antagonists, will say Yoruba emerged from Niger Benue people yet no link with any group that have suvh information. And they do tbese damnation because they can't interpret the artifacts that are simply ideograms of Yorubas at the expense of lacking the interpenetrating such artifacts


Do these people know how cowries from Noeth Africa emerged in Yoruba land as a legal tender ?

Do these people know Yorubas arrow is not of West Africa's origin ?

Do these people know agada(scimitar) did not originate in Africa ?

Do these people even know that Yoruba language was once spoken jn Egypt as Coptic Egyptians language ?


Bro, let the antagonists continue but for awhile because once my book is ready in the future, they will have the opportunity to know meaning of some artifacts tbat have eluded their knowledge.

Conclusions on historical research is never set in stone. For many years your "Yoruba origin from the middle east" was the conclusion of many historians until new appreciation for the pre - Islam, pre- missionary traditions placed doubt in that
The earliest written works by Muslims and missionaries on yoruba origin always ignored the traditional records of the people they were talking about and fed into their need to
1. Abrahamize the people with a new written history
2. Always return to Abrahamic traditions for everything

Today historians do not have those needs and coupled with evidence from chiefly linguistics, but also cultural anthropology and genetics.. Historians now conclude that yoruba are native to this area called Nigeria today

you and your church that sent you can't take us back to a level of knowledge we have surpassed.
Do you possess superior argument armed with evidence and conclusions from empirical research that the earliest historiographers were right eventhough they had no traditional records or linguistics or genetics on their side?

MetaPhysical:


I want to dice this into bite sizes starting with the earliest written records on Yoruba.

1. Samuel Johnson was not the original author of the History of Yorubas, his brother, Obadiah (I hope Im correct) was the original author. His manuscript made it to England but was never found after that. It is alleged that its dissapearance was a sabotage designed to shut down and completely obliterate the truths he revealed about Yoruba.

Why are Yoruba historians unconcerned about recovering Obadiah's copy? It seems a lot of effort is spent disreputing Samuel than finding the original manuscript of that work.


2. Latin script was not our first style of writing. Ajami script was used officially in King's courts to communicate in the period preceeding British colonialists and missionaries.

Why aren't Yoruba historians encouuraging recovery of the records?

It seems to me that these two works will help greatly to expand truths and pressentt accurate records, far more so than academic guesses.


To give perspective on why modern historical accounts are unreliable, consider that if we want to truly understand the history of rail transportation in Nigeria, we cannot begin at Ido terminal and its northbound tracks towards Abeokuta and Ibadan. We must go to Martins street and Tinubu square and dig for the tramway tracks buried underneath modern road asphalt.

Our historians have not dug up Tinubu square. The history they gave us is missing links from earlier and authentic records that are retrievable.

Ajami was not used in Yoruba's King's Court in the ancient time. At least, during medival period because Aroko is what was being used; which is the method of information passage. The Aroko are a form of alphabet that were used to convey messages across to the recipient with or without the conveyer if the message knowing what the message means.

Ajami came into Yoruba land around 16/17 century because it was brought by Muslim Yorubas. And the place where Yoruba first Muslims settlement was in Iwo land in an earlier century . And the Ajami was used by Yoruba elite Muslims ran through 18th and 19th century century amongst the Muslims but was faced out out due to nonchalant attitude of the numerous yorubas who saw the style of writing as not compatible with their ideologies and advent of Cnristian missionaries who came with Latin form of writing.

Thus,between 1843, when Samuel Ajayi Crowther, was ordained a priest of the Church of England, and 1844, Crowther translated the Bible Gospel of St. Luke and Acts of the Apostles into Yoruba using the Romanized script, and on January 9, 1844, he preached his first sermon using the text of St. Luke chapter 1, verse 35 as follows:
“ohung ohworh ti aobih ni inoh reh li aomakpe li Omoh Olorung."

This text, which will undoubtedly appear strange and unintelligible to a modern day Yoruba reader, is essentially that which was refined and modified between the time it was composed and the conference of 1875 referred to in the quotation initiating this article . “Search of Yoruba orthography" Professor Isaac Adeoju Ogunbiyi.


Note: mail tao.11 on this : tao.11@ yahoo.com

Olu317:
Thanks for your input. It is pertinent for the people who tried so much to affix the Yoruba identity to Niger Benue as the place of her origin, when infact, the reversal is the case of migration from Ileife that has always taken place to even Niger Benue confluence. So.pathetic

Secondly, in my part of Yoruba which is one of the numerous places where my ancestors migrated to, call father as Aba,Abba,Uba. These three are interchangeable. While mother is “ Iye "and not Iya as used often in generally Keoine language.

Thirdly, the Iwo Eleru people are not traceable in Yoruba bloodline. Perhaps, the earlier ancestors of Yoruba either assimilated or exterminated or chase many of these people out of her
contact with them. These people did have pygmy link dna link,whom the Yoruba called ‘Iwin'.

Fourthly, no matter how much you showcase glaring truh via ideograms knowledge on this platform, you have not done enough because one is tagged as non historian.These antagonists, will say Yoruba emerged from Niger Benue people yet no link with any group that have suvh information. And they do tbese damnation because they can't interpret the artifacts that are simply ideograms of Yorubas at the expense of lacking the interpenetrating such artifacts


Do these people know how cowries from Noeth Africa emerged in Yoruba land as a legal tender ?

Do these people know Yorubas arrow is not of West Africa's origin ?

Do these people know agada(scimitar) did not originate in Africa ?

Do these people even know that Yoruba language was once spoken jn Egypt as Coptic Egyptians language ?


Bro, let the antagonists continue but for awhile because once my book is ready in the future, they will have the opportunity to know meaning of some artifacts tbat have eluded their knowledge.

I actually believe most of what you said up...
Firstly, my people believe that 'Irahurẹ' people were very short, hence the name; Ira or eèrà is for ant and húrẹ́ or úrẹ́-úrẹ́ is for something/someone so minored; they disappeared or moved away easily as soon as they saw others. I now believe they were pygmies because they were the first people to inhabit West Africa about 10,000 years ago. They were so small in number and many of them moved back to where they came from, towards central Africa. They were from the stone age and were the oldest in Central Africa with their neighbours to the south, the Khoisan people.

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/west-africa/background/history/a/nar/facae734-6770-4bcf-8115-cd0c82879f6b/1333574

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2009/02/short-history-african-pygmies

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/how-africa-became-black



On the other hand, there had been human activities around Egypt about 100,000 BC... and when you look at our language, there are lots of common words shared with people of ancient Egypt and M/East..Then, how come? Nothing bad in trying to look toward East or MENA to see where was that ancient Ìfẹ...

lx3as:


In my own dialect, Abba or Àbá(due to new Yoruba language not tolerating two consonants together except 'gb', though we still have 'Kabba, Atta, etc') simply means 'Father'; Àba = someone over all. Àbarìṣà = Father lord or Father of all Oriṣa. Àbá or Àba rẹ = your father, for instance, Àba rẹ a gbe ọ. It's for God, Àbá Eledumare or oldest/elderly male or father, which has variation like 'Iba' or to some extent 'Baba'.

Until we overcome self egos, emotions and ready to tolerate others' views and works to reach harmonized agreement, that's when we would have common Yorubas' history.

If we think about experts, experts and without doing anything now, then we are failing... but I appreciate what we're doing here because everything is documented on the web whether it's the truth or not. However, it's better than what we had centuries ago, only oral and few documentation. We can weigh all this using what we have at hand, e.g, artifacts, dialects, culture and traditions to reveal who we are.

We deceive ourselves if we just conclude that Yorubas have just one creation in one place, one migration or one source. There are actually numerous oral traditions, hence some confusion. To begin with, several historians had concluded that people were not in West Africa about 10,000 years ago. The Sahara desert was not also a desert at a time in history. I believe with more archeological works, a lot of things will be discovered but for our tropical region, this is difficult.

When I was growing up, I used to sit with my very old grandmothers and all I always wanted from them was what happened in those days, what their fathers, great grandparents told them, not stories or àlọ̀. I was surprised that most things I had from them are also those things in the documented history of my town, though fewer and some others...

From the story of my town...we have main four sets of people, the most ancient which I always relate to be the same at Iwo Eleru, I called them the Atlantis, my people called them something like the 'Irahurẹ'. The second group are the 'Ulesun people', these are Obatala people who worshipped lots of gods and looked to Ìfẹ... People like Agboniregun baba ifá, Ogun Onire, etc. According to the 'Itan' in my place, these people were later joined by another set of people who were very related to them but were from the east (maybe river Niger area because their leader is called atta till today, e.g Atta of Aiyede). My own family was among the 3rd set, we came from Ìfẹ after settled near Ilésà, Owena, Oba-Ile, Bini, back to Ido - Ani, Emure, Àgbàdo, Ado and finally present town, where we met Urahurẹ́s and Ulesuns and became their kingship...The 4th sets of people had diverse origins, some are lighter in complexion and my people called them 'strange' people...

Today, we're the same people just like our older generations believe they were the same people with different migration periods. Each also had its oral history; one can choose anyone to follow or believe. They might have closely related dialects or not but almost same traditions in circumcision, naming their children 8th day, Akehinde gbegbon believe, believe in supreme God called Eledumare, Ẹlẹda,, Eledua, Aba'riṣa, etc. My people actually believe they are one, each house or family with what they worship except Eegun, no masquerades in my town. Our own is Ogun(definitely Lẹgbara inclusive) and Umọlẹ (there are Ẹpa and Oge); Some other families, IFA, Osun, Osanyin, etc. Ọpa (serious beating with Àtòrì is for every youth because we must be ready to endure pains). And in those days, when we wanted to marry, the male dipped his hand inside a gourd containing all sorts of poisonous snakes, Scorpion and stinging insects... to know whether he's ready to house a woman. In my family, we slaughtered ram and buffalo for male birth and marriage and death in those days but now mainly roosters but if you have money for ram, you go for it...

Oral traditions will definitely be varied and sometimes change with humans' input to suit their egos. there are two other sets of people I didn't talk about, the Muslims and Christians. If you meet every group today, each has its stories.
Let us find a common ground. Go back to your towns, find out their history...

Quite insightful post. So bad I lost a lengthy response to this earlier. The last statement is for the scholar of Yoruba. Fact and files are in all the institutions devoted to record keeping from time.

The Christian scripture, the Hebrew scripture, the Qur'an and most of all the Yoruba fixed oral records. Our history is domiciled here, but we're ages away from unlocking our tradition. So most folks here can make do of nothing of such.

It's delusional to expect historical exactness in reconstructing an ancient history like the Yorubas, such a demand is the expectation of modern history, that's waiting till forever from their end.

But nonetheless our history is out there but surreal. The bone of contention here is the notion that Yoruba evolved here versus tradition. There should be a word for evolution in Yoruba for that.

All I've found is Owa, Iwase, coming to found or lay the foundation of the entity now called Yoruba.

macof:



TAO11 has asked you
Why should the account of a fulani over the origin of the Yoruba people be held over the account of the Yoruba themselves?

Why do we call a story that was made to place Yoruba in the middle East only after Yoruba had come in contact with Muslims a Yoruba account? How is it Yoruba account when the Yoruba did not say this of themselves? But had to learn it from foreign Muslims who wanted to convert them?

While we are at accepting the account of others, why do we not accept the Bini account that says oduduwa is their Prince



If this were not sentimental attachments to the middle east due to religious indoctrination why would a Yoruba dump the traditional account for a fulani account of his origin that says he's from the middle east

The account is not a Fulani's own but written in their Arabia script, which iz fashioned after, account, such Professor Akintoye , Ogundiran, Lucas,Talbot, Sabaru Biobaku, Akinjogbin,Obadiah Johnson & Samuel John,etc.
So, such statement is null and void.

Beside, are you not even amazed that such man came up with information that's not linked to his own ethnic group to praise ? As far as I am concerned, his information is without bias.

Furthermore, The story is not made up because, as at today, the only thing being remebered abuot Opa Iranmiyan obelisk is that, it used to be a place where kings from other vassal state fashioned after Ileife take oath of allegiance and ordained as king.

Bini was named by Yoruba ancestor. And these people do had a scarification pattern on their body as a Sign of Indigenous group to that society, which is alien to Yoruba people, who came in a unique form to established a culture based on ritual and a pattern of worship likened to Near East. So, written account that was written over 100 years ago stated the obvious that Yoruba came to Bini as a stranger. to establish her system of monarchy. This is the reason, I won't take revisionism of some Edos which has no place in history, especially where evidence abound.

Sentiment ? I don't believe in such because where there is evidence based on artifacts, religion,clothing,manufacturing, then it is worth investigating. Beside, I have mentioned it at times that my work may take time to release but you will read it and be damned on the information I have gatherd.

My question to you is :
Can you explain how the Yoruba language is same as Coptic Egyptian's, Bini Court language, Dahomey Court language which is the mode of communication with the speakers owner of the language ? The same TA011,provided the screenshot though I had known these long time

macof:


Conclusions on historical research is never set in stone. For many years your "Yoruba origin from the middle east" was the conclusion of many historians until new appreciation for the pre - Islam, pre- missionary traditions placed doubt in that
The earliest written works by Muslims and missionaries on yoruba origin always ignored the traditional records of the people they were talking about and fed into their need to
1. Abrahamize the people with a new written history
2. Always return to Abrahamic traditions for everything

Today historians do not have those needs and coupled with evidence from chiefly linguistics, but also cultural anthropology and genetics.. Historians now conclude that yoruba are native to this area called Nigeria today

you and your church that sent you can't take us back to a level of knowledge we have surpassed.
Do you possess superior argument armed with evidence and conclusions from empirical research that the earliest historiographers were right eventhough they had no traditional records or linguistics or genetics on their side?

Go sit down and learn more about Yoruba history that funding keep coming into so that her mystery can be resolved on their identity , Art in the mediaeval era.


So see, I have no time for such chat as yours anymore because you don't just study beyond me to read information at all times because I am your nemesis over my information that is glaring. Base on as it stands, there are newer information that will shock you soon from different writer on Yoruba's history. So get acquainted with research reality that's beyond NL.

Olu317:
Go sit down and learn more about Yoruba history that funding keep coming into so that her mystery can be resolved on their identity , Art in the mediaeval era.


So see, I have no time for such chat as yours anymore because you don't just study beyond me to read information at all times because I am your nemesis over my information that is glaring. Base on as it stands, there are newer information that will shock you soon from different writer on Yoruba's history. So get acquainted with research reality that's beyond NL.

Lmao this guy is a clown

Olu317:


1. The account is not a Fulani's own but written in their Arabia script, which iz fashioned after, account, such Professor Akintoye , Ogundiran, Lucas,Talbot, Sabaru Biobaku, Akinjogbin,Obadiah Johnson & Samuel John,etc.
So, such statement is null and void.

2. Beside, are you not even amazed that such man came up with information that's not linked to his own ethnic group to praise ? As far as I am concerned, his information is without bias.

3. Furthermore, The story is not made up because, as at today, the only thing being remebered abuot Opa Iranmiyan obelisk is that, it used to be a place where kings from other vassal state fashioned after Ileife take oath of allegiance and ordained as king.

4. Bini was named by Yoruba ancestor. And these people do had a scarification pattern on their body as a Sign of Indigenous group to that society, which is alien to Yoruba people, who came in a unique form to established a culture based on ritual and a pattern of worship likened to Near East. So, written account that was written over 100 years ago stated the obvious that Yoruba came to Bini as a stranger. to establish her system of monarchy. This is the reason, I won't take revisionism of some Edos which has no place in history, especially where evidence abound.

5. Sentiment ? I don't believe in such because where there is evidence based on artifacts, religion,clothing,manufacturing, then it is worth investigating. Beside, I have mentioned it at times that my work may take time to release but you will read it and be damned on the information I have gatherd.

6. My question to you is :
Can you explain how the Yoruba language is same as Coptic Egyptian's, Bini Court language, Dahomey Court language which is the mode of communication with the speakers owner of the language ? The same TA011,provided the screenshot though I had known these long time

1. Be more coherent, stop trying to use English that you can't use in order to seem articulate.
I can barely understand what you are trying to say
So I would rather not assume on what you could have meant here

2. Amazement, fascination.. That is what draws people to pseudohistory. A historian such as myself would not take what someone obviously made up as history
I didn't say sultan Bello's made up story is ethnically biased, nobody says that in the historical community
The question was simple... Why take the story of a fulani over what the Yoruba people say about themselves?

3. Nothing connects Opa Oranmiyan with sultan Bello's story of yoruba origin.
You just talk too much and eventually talk off point

4. Yoruba also have traditional and ritual scarification patterns.. If you like argue.. Let me embarass you again

You are yet to prove that yoruba religion was brought from the near East. Claims and more claims but no substance.
You would tell us where in the near east they have 16 primary Odu-Ifa and a total of 256 Odu, where Ogun laakaye depicted as a black man with raffia leaves is worshiped in the near East, where they have masquerades like egungun, gelede etc in the near east, where there is the philosophy of Orí, where placing sacrifice on 3 way junctions exists in the near east
Where our Irunmole and Orisa and the stories around them exist in the near east


5. Since you have no evidence to present here why then do you expect sensible people to take you seriously? Wait till you finish your book and present all the evidence you failed to present here in the book.
You make claims that you are not willing to prove and get angry when called out lmao
What exactly is that. You should

6. Yoruba Language is not the same as Egyptian coptic language. If a Yoruba man were spoken to or give a text in coptic language, he would not understand a thing
Yoruba was used extensively in many parts of the lower Guinea as a lingua franca.
How does Yoruba being spoken in the Bini and Dahomean courts relate to Yoruba being of semitic origin?
Stop going off topic

macof:


6. Yoruba Language is not the same as Egyptian coptic language. If a Yoruba man were spoken to or give a text in coptic language, he would not understand a thing
Yoruba was used extensively in many parts of the lower Guinea as a lingua franca.
How does Yoruba being spoken in the Bini and Dahomean courts relate to Yoruba being of semitic origin?
Stop going off topic

What do you have to say about this;
quoting from Wesley Muhammad, PhD, 'The Black Arabian Origins of the Yoruba' Page 25-26:

we have pointed out that ArabianEgyptian origins never applied to the whole “Yorùbá” linguistic group, just as it does not apply to the whole Edo linguistic group. There is thus no necessary conflict between linguistic data and oral tradition. The seventh century Arabian immigrants into Yorubaland via Egypt met people already in the land, and these Kwa-speaking peoples had been in the land for centuries certainly, maybe millennia.

As Isola Olomola nicely informs us:

parts of Ife, Ijesa, Ekiti and Ijebu, etc., were inhabited by people with some measure of sophisticated political culture before the advent of Oduduwa…Thus, the common belief that the origin of Ile-Ife and the entire Yoruba world, as well as their social and political culture, dated from Oduduwa, needs some modification. What can be traced to Oduduwa is the emergence of a new dynasty and to a new political culture.

120 Olomola makes another point of crucial importance here:

121 the considerable amount of material and non-material culture of the autochthonous inhabitants that survived the political takeover shows beyond any reasonable doubt that the immigrant aristocratic group associated with Oduduwa was numerically inferior to the host community and was culturally absorbed (emphasis added). Because the Odùdúwà group was culturally absorbed, the linguistic identity of the resulting “Yorùbá” would have been that of the indigenous Kwa-speaking groups, which is exactly what the linguistic evidence tells us. The language of the immigrants is lost. However, it left enough of an impact on the host language for us to make an educated guess about what it was. The linguistic evidence in fact shows extensive contact with Egyptian and Near Eastern languages. If Lucas produced his theory of an Ancient Egyptian-Yorùbá relationship without the benefit of training as a linguist, Nigerian Modupe Oduyoye is a linguist (and exegete) specializing in Yorùbá, Semitic, and Ancient Egyptian languages.

In 1968 Oduyoye published an important article, “Yoruba and Semitic Languages,” arguing a genetic relationship between these two language groups. 122 He later was able to argue specifically and explicitly that “Yoruba, is related to Hebrew.” 123 Oduyoye has a very reasonable explanation for the genetic relationship between Yorùbá and Hebrew: the linguistic evidence…suggests that the ancestors of the Hebrews and the ancestors of black Africans once lived in the same speech community…from a common shrine which I locate in the Sahara before its dessication, the ancestors of the Jews migrated east at the time of the dessicating Sahara while the ancestors of black Africans migrated south. Neither stopped until they got to a viable river-the Nile, the Jordan, the Tigris, the Euphrates to the east; the Kwara (Niger), the Binuwe (Benue), the Kongo, the Zambesi to the south.


124 119 Atanda, “Samuel Johnson,” 101. 120 Isola Olomola, “Ife Before Oduduwa,” in The Cradle of a Race (Ife From the Beginning to 1980), ed. I.A. Akinjogbin (Lagos: Sunray Publications, 1992) 51 [51-61]. 121 Olomola, “Ife Before Oduduwa,” 57-58. 122 Modupe Oduyoye, “Yoruba and Semitic Languages,” Nigeria Magazine 99 (1968): 304-308. 123 Modupe Oduyoye, “The Spirits that Rule the world: African Religions & Judaism,” in African Origins of the Major World Religions, ed. Amon Saba Saakana (London: Karnak House, 1991) 59. .....

Olu317:
Thanks for your input. It is pertinent for the people who tried so much to affix the Yoruba identity to Niger Benue as the place of her origin, when infact, the reversal is the case of migration from Ileife that has always taken place to even Niger Benue confluence. So.pathetic

Secondly, in my part of Yoruba which is one of the numerous places where my ancestors migrated to, call father as Aba,Abba,Uba. These three are interchangeable. While mother is “ Iye "and not Iya as used often in generally Keoine language.



Thirdly, the Iwo Eleru people are not traceable in Yoruba bloodline. Perhaps, the earlier ancestors of Yoruba either assimilated or exterminated or chase many of these people out of her
contact with them. These people did have pygmy link dna link,whom the Yoruba called ‘Iwin'.



Fourthly, no matter how much you showcase glaring truh via ideograms knowledge on this platform, you have not done enough because one is tagged as non historian.These antagonists, will say Yoruba emerged from Niger Benue people yet no link with any group that have suvh information. And they do tbese damnation because they can't interpret the artifacts that are simply ideograms of Yorubas at the expense of lacking the interpenetrating such artifacts


Do these people know how cowries from Noeth Africa emerged in Yoruba land as a legal tender ?

Do these people know Yorubas arrow is not of West Africa's origin ?

Do these people know agada(scimitar) did not originate in Africa ?

Do these people even know that Yoruba language was once spoken jn Egypt as Coptic Egyptians language ?


Bro, let the antagonists continue but for awhile because once my book is ready in the future, they will have the opportunity to know meaning of some artifacts tbat have eluded their knowledge.

@Olu, you have a bleeding pen brother.

Mellow the quest for the purest breed of the Yoruba race bro, it's not a place to be because it's not healthy or true. There's no pure breed of people over a thousand years. It's like going the Adolf Hitler way on to another axis of evil.

Our neighbors are not our neighbors by accident but by kinship. You can't get rid of the Iwo Eleru from Yoruba because Frank Willeth/archeology place their history outside your favoured timeframe for Ife civilization.

Nonetheless the place did not get her name from a tongue other than Yoruba, in fact ancient Yoruba. Iwo olodo oba, Iwo Eleru. This two are connected to the term Iwo: Eleru, aseru, what's the meaning of Jakobi again?

Like the poster said they travelled through Ado, I often sees this connection as implying places discovered by Ado and his contingents or reset explorers derived from them, because Iwo is part of the phrase "Iwori". What is Iwo?

Wori woku, orisa Ado, that's the slogan of my hometown, but it means "looking to discovery or looking to death: the word of patriarch Ado". Ado is the same in Yoruba history, fixed oral records makes Ado, Sango's child.

This statement could help you understand the line about Ado in Odu Ifa, where he said "awa donile, aoku mo, awa dopitan Ile". Ado had prepared his men for their fate, but they got lucky.

Their focus was an expanse that is today Yorubaland. Therefore the thought reverberates in Yoruba place name such as Ado Awaye, "iwoye" because the team made it.

Iwo is thus the hopeful aspiration of the explorers. Iwo is akin to what the Yoruba reckon as oju oore, oju orere, or as found in aro eyo, "oju imaa segi orere" (sight can't uproot a tree from a distance".

Iwo as found in this place name is a view from a remote distance, a 'focus'. Iwo Eleru thus means the focus of the supplanter in Yoruba, until we find any other meaning to eru.

By this token, eru (Iwo Eleru) related historically with Ori (Iwori). Hence the entry on the genesis of the Yoruba is set to Odu iwori in Ifa. From here derived Warri, Awori etc.

It's required that you adjust your set time for the emergence of Yoruba in Yorubaland in antiquity. Let's think about what everyplace can offer us to have better understanding of the overall Yoruba history, not just one place.

Cheers bro.

lx3as:


What do you have to say about this;

1. quoting from Wesley Muhammad, PhD, 'The Black Arabian Origins of the Yoruba' Page 25-26:

we have pointed out that ArabianEgyptian origins never applied to the whole “Yorùbá” linguistic group, just as it does not apply to the whole Edo linguistic group. There is thus no necessary conflict between linguistic data and oral tradition. The seventh century Arabian immigrants into Yorubaland via Egypt met people already in the land, and these Kwa-speaking peoples had been in the land for centuries certainly, maybe millennia.

2. As Isola Olomola nicely informs us:

parts of Ife, Ijesa, Ekiti and Ijebu, etc., were inhabited by people with some measure of sophisticated political culture before the advent of Oduduwa…Thus, the common belief that the origin of Ile-Ife and the entire Yoruba world, as well as their social and political culture, dated from Oduduwa, needs some modification. What can be traced to Oduduwa is the emergence of a new dynasty and to a new political culture.

120 Olomola makes another point of crucial importance here:

121 the considerable amount of material and non-material culture of the autochthonous inhabitants that survived the political takeover shows beyond any reasonable doubt that the immigrant aristocratic group associated with Oduduwa was numerically inferior to the host community and was culturally absorbed (emphasis added). Because the Odùdúwà group was culturally absorbed, the linguistic identity of the resulting “Yorùbá” would have been that of the indigenous Kwa-speaking groups, which is exactly what the linguistic evidence tells us. The language of the immigrants is lost. However, it left enough of an impact on the host language for us to make an educated guess about what it was. The linguistic evidence in fact shows extensive contact with Egyptian and Near Eastern languages. If Lucas produced his theory of an Ancient Egyptian-Yorùbá relationship without the benefit of training as a linguist, Nigerian Modupe Oduyoye is a linguist (and exegete) specializing in Yorùbá, Semitic, and Ancient Egyptian languages.

3. In 1968 Oduyoye published an important article, “Yoruba and Semitic Languages,” arguing a genetic relationship between these two language groups. 122 He later was able to argue specifically and explicitly that “Yoruba, is related to Hebrew.” 123 Oduyoye has a very reasonable explanation for the genetic relationship between Yorùbá and Hebrew: the linguistic evidence…suggests that the ancestors of the Hebrews and the ancestors of black Africans once lived in the same speech community…from a common shrine which I locate in the Sahara before its dessication, the ancestors of the Jews migrated east at the time of the dessicating Sahara while the ancestors of black Africans migrated south. Neither stopped until they got to a viable river-the Nile, the Jordan, the Tigris, the Euphrates to the east; the Kwara (Niger), the Binuwe (Benue), the Kongo, the Zambesi to the south.


124 119 Atanda, “Samuel Johnson,” 101. 120 Isola Olomola, “Ife Before Oduduwa,” in The Cradle of a Race (Ife From the Beginning to 1980), ed. I.A. Akinjogbin (Lagos: Sunray Publications, 1992) 51 [51-61]. 121 Olomola, “Ife Before Oduduwa,” 57-58. 122 Modupe Oduyoye, “Yoruba and Semitic Languages,” Nigeria Magazine 99 (1968): 304-308. 123 Modupe Oduyoye, “The Spirits that Rule the world: African Religions & Judaism,” in African Origins of the Major World Religions, ed. Amon Saba Saakana (London: Karnak House, 1991) 59. .....

Wesley Mohammed is neither a historian nor anthropologist nor is his area of expertise broadly related to finding the origins of West African peoples. He is rather a theologian focused on Islam.
Proper Islamic scholars don't even agree with him or any of the afro centric direction the Nation of Islam takes Islam which is telling a lot.

Many narratives are simply desperate moves to Abrahamize African people.. Yorùbá are not the only ones that suffer this attack.
So it takes a good sense of source critic to identify the historicity of the narratives

Wesley Mohammed doesn't do a bad job in the sense that he tries to make sense of his sources but evidently he is fixed on africanizing Islam that he sometimes quotes authors who maintain a non middle eastern origin for Yoruba but finds away to twist Arabs into the mix ...

First, In his book he attempts to separate the Yoruba into subgroups of different unrelated origins.. This is baseless in real fact
I would love to receive any sort of detail on why anyone would suggest that yoruba subgroups came from different parts of the world and simply met each other in what is now SW Nigeria.
Also his whole position on Arabian origin for Yoruba is based on the oduduwa mecca narrative (I will address this below) which is not based on facts
Thirdly, in his concluding remarks you clearly get a sense of his intention which is to claim that Islam is an African origin, created by Black Arabs and meant for their descendants all over Africa

See the discrepancy?


2. This point of reference to oduduwa would only be relevant if we were still stuck on the idea of a middle eastern origin for oduduwa
[just as some people claimed the Yoruba from inception were from the middle East, many also claimed oduduwa came from the middle East to meet aboriginals]

Rather, appreciation for Ife traditions point to Oduduwa being in fact a local Yoruba man born and breed on a hill community east of the main city before descending and relocating to Igbodio
So there was no case of "the language of the immigrants was lost to the language of the aborigines"
Unless you have empirical facts that indeed oduduwa was not local to this part of the world

Might shock you to be told this after years of hearing oduduwa came from mecca right? But ask yourself where that narrative originates from and what sort of relic supports this


3. There is no basis for the statement that the Semitic language speakers and Kwa language speakers were living in the site of the sahara speaking one language before its desertification

macof:


Wesley Mohammed is neither a historian nor anthropologist nor is his area of expertise broadly related to finding the origins of West African peoples. He is rather a theologian focused on Islam.
Proper Islamic scholars don't even agree with him or any of the afro centric direction the Nation of Islam takes Islam which is telling a lot.

Many narratives are simply desperate moves to Abrahamize African people.. Yorùbá are not the only ones that suffer this attack.
So it takes a good sense of source critic to identify the historicity of the narratives

Wesley Mohammed doesn't do a bad job in the sense that he tries to make sense of his sources but evidently he is fixed on africanizing Islam that he sometimes quotes authors who maintain a non middle eastern origin for Yoruba but finds away to twist Arabs into the mix ...

First, In his book he attempts to separate the Yoruba into subgroups of different unrelated origins.. This is baseless in real fact
I would love to receive any sort of detail on why anyone would suggest that yoruba subgroups came from different parts of the world and simply met each other in what is now SW Nigeria.
Also his whole position on Arabian origin for Yoruba is based on the oduduwa mecca narrative (I will address this below) which is not based on facts
Thirdly, in his concluding remarks you clearly get a sense of his intention which is to claim that Islam is an African origin, created by Black Arabs and meant for their descendants all over Africa

See the discrepancy?


2. This point of reference to oduduwa would only be relevant if we were still stuck on the idea of a middle eastern origin for oduduwa
[just as some people claimed the Yoruba from inception were from the middle East, many also claimed oduduwa came from the middle East to meet aboriginals]

Rather, appreciation for Ife traditions point to Oduduwa being in fact a local Yoruba man born and breed on a hill community east of the main city before descending and relocating to Igbodio
So there was no case of "the language of the immigrants was lost to the language of the aborigines"
Unless you have empirical facts that indeed oduduwa was not local to this part of the world

Might shock you to be told this after years of hearing oduduwa came from mecca right? But ask yourself where that narrative originates from and what sort of relic supports this


3. There is no basis for the statement that the Semitic language speakers and Kwa language speakers were living in the site of the sahara speaking one language before its desertification

I don't also support the motive of Wesley Muhammad of seeing everything through Arabian; believing that Oyo-yorubas, Hausas, Borgu were from Arabia. Moreover, suggesting that Oduduwa and Kisra are same, his proposition that the Bible stories took place in the Arabian rather than Philistines and Syria or Cannan was in Arabia is lacking...

I was only looking for where to quote Isola Olomola and Modupe Oduyoye, a Nigerian historian and a linguist in response to your proposition that we're always Kwa speaking family of Niger-Congo...and I found this in his book. I was expecting your response on Olomola and Oduyoye's not muhammad. Notwithstanding, nice response, Bro.

macof:

Lmao. He said Yoruba knot known as Solomon's knot

These clowns

Lmao

absoluteSuccess:


@Olu, you have a bleeding pen brother.

Mellow the quest for the purest breed of the Yoruba race bro, it's not a place to be because it's not healthy or true. There's no pure breed of people over a thousand years. It's like going the Adolf Hitler way on to another axis of evil.

Our neighbors are not our neighbors by accident but by kinship. You can't get rid of the Iwo Eleru from Yoruba because Frank Willeth/archeology place their history outside your favoured timeframe for Ife civilization.

Nonetheless the place did not get her name from a tongue other than Yoruba, in fact ancient Yoruba. Iwo olodo oba, Iwo Eleru. This two are connected to the term Iwo: Eleru, aseru, what's the meaning of Jakobi again?

Like the poster said they travelled through Ado, I often sees this connection as implying places discovered by Ado and his contingents or reset explorers derived from them, because Iwo is part of the phrase "Iwori". What is Iwo?

Wori woku, orisa Ado, that's the slogan of my hometown, but it means "looking to discovery or looking to death: the word of patriarch Ado". Ado is the same in Yoruba history, fixed oral records makes Ado, Sango's child.

This statement could help you understand the line about Ado in Odu Ifa, where he said "awa donile, aoku mo, awa dopitan Ile". Ado had prepared his men for their fate, but they got lucky.

Their focus was an expanse that is today Yorubaland. Therefore the thought reverberates in Yoruba place name such as Ado Awaye, "iwoye" because the team made it.

Iwo is thus the hopeful aspiration of the explorers. Iwo is akin to what the Yoruba reckon as oju oore, oju orere, or as found in aro eyo, "oju imaa segi orere" (sight can't uproot a tree from a distance".

Iwo as found in this place name is a view from a remote distance, a 'focus'. Iwo Eleru thus means the focus of the supplanter in Yoruba, until we find any other meaning to eru.

By this token, eru (Iwo Eleru) related historically with Ori (Iwori). Hence the entry on the genesis of the Yoruba is set to Odu iwori in Ifa. From here derived Warri, Awori etc.

It's required that you adjust your set time for the emergence of Yoruba in Yorubaland in antiquity. Let's think about what everyplace can offer us to have better understanding of the overall Yoruba history, not just one place.

Cheers bro.

Lol though insightful. However, I stand by my perspective despite the fact, that humans have had admixture over thousands of years. Thus, it doesn't change the fact that the human head found in Iwo eleru was “not" Yoruba's ancestors. Although, if you have evidence to support the human fossil as Yoruba's, then kindly share bcause I will be delighted to see the dna that showcase such as Yoruba's.

Another angle that I had stressed is that Yoruba language is an ancient one that became adopted in some places such as Egypt as Coptic Language, which I had once called,“ Riual or religious language" in those areas ,amongst the learners community of the language. This is what informed names given to places Yoruba language and speakers visited through conquest of that land. So, Iwo eleru is not different.


Furthermore,Yoruba reemphasise their panegyric, wherever they migrate toward,especially if such place became subjugated under the Yoruba's monarchial system and culture . This is the reason, you find Oriki( panegyric) as reflection of who they were and are till infinity. Take for instance, my ancestors oriki: mention these also our oriki as :

a. Oma oru me la ako ko ( children of Oru~place where light, heat emanates that ascend to farming settlement as agriculturalist). Oru is my own ancestors place of origin,which was a place where flood over ran and destroyed in Ileife oral account.

Omo odode Aani( children of the mountain base or foundation of ownership)


The reason of the above is for to see beyond the names because, renaming a place after their ancestors doesn't meaan, they were the first occupants of that place. In fact, a friend who is from Abia, that claims, his ancestors migrated from Idanre.So, migration is part of human adventure for greener pasture ,exploration and safety to avoid war conquest.

Olu317:
Lol though insightful. However, I stand by my perspective despite the fact, that humans have had admixture over thousands of years. Thus, it doesn't change the fact that the human head found in Iwo eleru was “not" Yoruba's ancestors. Although, if you have evidence to support the human fossil as Yoruba's, then kindly share bcause I will be delighted to see the dna that showcase such as Yoruba's.

Another angle that I had stressed is that Yoruba language is an ancient one that became adopted in some places such as Egypt as Coptic Language, which I had once called,“ Riual or religious language" in those areas ,amongst the learners community of the language. This is what informed names given to places Yoruba language and speakers visited through conquest of that land. So, Iwo eleru is not different.


Furthermore,Yoruba reemphasise their panegyric, wherever they migrate toward,especially if such place became subjugated under the Yoruba's monarchial system and culture . This is the reason, you find Oriki( panegyric) as reflection of who they were and are till infinity. Take for instance, my ancestors oriki: mention these also our oriki as :

a. Oma oru me la ako ko ( children of Oru~place where light, heat emanates that ascend to farming settlement as agriculturalist). Oru is my own ancestors place of origin,which was a place where flood over ran and destroyed in Ileife oral account.

Omo odode Aani( children of the mountain base or foundation of ownership)


The reason of the above is for to see beyond the names because, renaming a place after their ancestors doesn't meaan, they were the first occupants of that place. In fact, a friend who is from Abia, that claims, his ancestors migrated from Idanre.So, migration is part of human adventure for greener pasture ,exploration and safety to avoid war conquest.

Ogami, I've read and digested your post. We can't all have the same angle at all times, its individual differences that brought us all together here. Otun wo osi wo, oun aba jijo wo gigun nii gun, tot o se bi owe. Everything you said up there are possibilities.

My remark is borne out of your disdain for most especially the half or non Yorubas, the Ika people for instance, what you said about them seems to be what happened when young boys became soldiers during the Liberian war, with wanton destruction of lives at its wake.

It was so terrible that those boys could gamble about the sex of the child in the womb of a pregnant woman. Then your feelings for the dahome is smashing bro, hence i said you should mellow. You are a great guy, lets leap a bit above hate, its not in our gene against anyone.

Awa o binu enikan. Boya eniyan nbinuo awa o mo

lx3as:


What do you have to say about this;
quoting from Wesley Muhammad, PhD, 'The Black Arabian Origins of the Yoruba' Page 25-26:

we have pointed out that ArabianEgyptian origins never applied to the whole “Yorùbá” linguistic group, just as it does not apply to the whole Edo linguistic group. There is thus no necessary conflict between linguistic data and oral tradition. The seventh century Arabian immigrants into Yorubaland via Egypt met people already in the land, and these Kwa-speaking peoples had been in the land for centuries certainly, maybe millennia.

As Isola Olomola nicely informs us:

parts of Ife, Ijesa, Ekiti and Ijebu, etc., were inhabited by people with some measure of sophisticated political culture before the advent of Oduduwa…Thus, the common belief that the origin of Ile-Ife and the entire Yoruba world, as well as their social and political culture, dated from Oduduwa, needs some modification. What can be traced to Oduduwa is the emergence of a new dynasty and to a new political culture.

120 Olomola makes another point of crucial importance here:

121 the considerable amount of material and non-material culture of the autochthonous inhabitants that survived the political takeover shows beyond any reasonable doubt that the immigrant aristocratic group associated with Oduduwa was numerically inferior to the host community and was culturally absorbed (emphasis added). Because the Odùdúwà group was culturally absorbed, the linguistic identity of the resulting “Yorùbá” would have been that of the indigenous Kwa-speaking groups, which is exactly what the linguistic evidence tells us. The language of the immigrants is lost. However, it left enough of an impact on the host language for us to make an educated guess about what it was. The linguistic evidence in fact shows extensive contact with Egyptian and Near Eastern languages. If Lucas produced his theory of an Ancient Egyptian-Yorùbá relationship without the benefit of training as a linguist, Nigerian Modupe Oduyoye is a linguist (and exegete) specializing in Yorùbá, Semitic, and Ancient Egyptian languages.

In 1968 Oduyoye published an important article, “Yoruba and Semitic Languages,” arguing a genetic relationship between these two language groups. 122 He later was able to argue specifically and explicitly that “Yoruba, is related to Hebrew.” 123 Oduyoye has a very reasonable explanation for the genetic relationship between Yorùbá and Hebrew: the linguistic evidence…suggests that the ancestors of the Hebrews and the ancestors of black Africans once lived in the same speech community…from a common shrine which I locate in the Sahara before its dessication, the ancestors of the Jews migrated east at the time of the dessicating Sahara while the ancestors of black Africans migrated south. Neither stopped until they got to a viable river-the Nile, the Jordan, the Tigris, the Euphrates to the east; the Kwara (Niger), the Binuwe (Benue), the Kongo, the Zambesi to the south.


124 119 Atanda, “Samuel Johnson,” 101. 120 Isola Olomola, “Ife Before Oduduwa,” in The Cradle of a Race (Ife From the Beginning to 1980), ed. I.A. Akinjogbin (Lagos: Sunray Publications, 1992) 51 [51-61]. 121 Olomola, “Ife Before Oduduwa,” 57-58. 122 Modupe Oduyoye, “Yoruba and Semitic Languages,” Nigeria Magazine 99 (1968): 304-308. 123 Modupe Oduyoye, “The Spirits that Rule the world: African Religions & Judaism,” in African Origins of the Major World Religions, ed. Amon Saba Saakana (London: Karnak House, 1991) 59. .....

Great post there bro, but be sure its never enough to amount to anything with these folks, that should help you to understand that here, its each to his own. The truth is this folks have no history to tell us but fault whatever you like bring to the topic from wherever authority you deem fit.

You don't use fact against people that such fact does not impress, fault finding is fact finding to them. So, give your story, there will always be something to nullify it. So its really "christian trying to convert an atheist" mentality at play here on this thread, so thread carefully.

That in itself shows that politics of religion has become the filter by which everyone juxtapose their perception of Yoruba history.

The truth therefore lies in the very "politics of religion" here at play. Just put the sentiment out of it and you will see the truth and the lies pretending to be truth. At the path of the truth lies progress. Falsehood lies in wait, it never continue on its own. It feeds on others' idea.

Yoruba's hebrew heritage

Yoruba history is exactly what you have amongst the Hebrew, whose history forms the corpus of their religion, and I must inform you that the Yoruba were part of the Israelites up till the period of Moses and beyond, hence we have a reference to Moses in Ifa corpus till date.

Moses was a priest, with Ephod (Ifodu as metaphysical and Olu loves to put it) and thurim. In fact, Ifa is Yoruba for "Sopher" (they will rush to google an pretend to have always know what this mean any moment from now, telling us they pluck it from their head in a split seconds).

That scribe culture gave birth to Ifa, and from similar strand, philosophy and sufi, absorbed into Islam from the Attica Hellenism that predates the Arabic enlightenment. So, Sopher, Osofa, Onifa, Adifa: these were ancient chroniclers of the annals of the people among classical orients.

Men such as the early church fathers, (like St. Augustine of Hippo, a moor who brought the whole essence of Aristotelian philosophy into Christianity) compares to a Sopher, knotting two traditions together which themselves have layers deep down the ancient Egyptian culture.

This tradition of knotting records together survive as Ifa in Yoruba. The patron saint of this order is none other than the king Solomon of the Yoruba, Orunmila (heaven rock open), Akere finu s'ogbo. Just as Palm (Ope) is the symbol of the tribe of Judah, it is the same with Orunmila.

Ope abise wara.

History is not static, a man asking you to fetch him Yoruba who could read the language of the Egyptian is a man living in an eternal afternoon. Give him exactly that if you can, he'll transform the argument till the long yarn where you feel delirious and just fizzle out.

Such a man is unaware of what obtain at the time in question and as such, neither historian nor an enthusiast but a Yahweh-stalker pretending to be intellectual. Which kwa language is the same? Did the Egyptians and her vassals converse in the same language from archaeological findings?

You don't need all the facts to decide-Mark Twain.

That's the difference between the wisdom born of rigorous mental strength such as exhibited here by original researchers, compared to fallacy promoters waiting to fault anything you could come up with. These are "sub-intellects" pretending to be intellectuals.

To destroy is easy.

absoluteSuccess:


Great post there bro, but be sure its never enough to amount to anything with these folks, that should help you to understand that here, its each to his own. The truth is this folks have no history to tell us but fault whatever you like bring to the topic from wherever authority you deem fit.

You don't use fact against people that such fact does not impress, fault finding is fact finding to them. So, give your story, there will always be something to nullify it. So its really "christian trying to convert an atheist" mentality at play here on this thread, so thread carefully.

That in itself shows that politics of religion has become the filter by which everyone juxtapose their perception of Yoruba history.

The truth therefore lies in the very "politics of religion" here at play. Just put the sentiment out of it and you will see the truth and the lies pretending to be truth. At the path of the truth lies progress. Falsehood lies in wait, it never continue on its own. It feeds on others' idea.

Yoruba's hebrew heritage

Yoruba history is exactly what you have amongst the Hebrew, whose history forms the corpus of their religion, and I must inform you that the Yoruba were part of the Israelites up till the period of Moses and beyond, hence we have a reference to Moses in Ifa corpus till date.

Moses was a priest, with Ephod (Ifodu as metaphysical and Olu loves to put it) and thurim. In fact, Ifa is Yoruba for "Sopher" (they will rush to google an pretend to have always know what this mean any moment from now, telling us they pluck it from their head in a split seconds).

That scribe culture gave birth to Ifa, and from similar strand, philosophy and sufi, absorbed into Islam from the Attica Hellenism that predates the Arabic enlightenment. So, Sopher, Osofa, Onifa, Adifa: these were ancient chroniclers of the annals of the people among classical orients.

Men such as the early church fathers, (like St. Augustine of Hippo, a moor who brought the whole essence of Aristotelian philosophy into Christianity) compares to a Sopher, knotting two traditions together which themselves have layers deep down the ancient Egyptian culture.

This tradition of knotting records together survive as Ifa in Yoruba. The patron saint of this order is none other than the king Solomon of the Yoruba, Orunmila (heaven rock open), Akere finu s'ogbo. Just as Palm (Ope) is the symbol of the tribe of Judah, it is the same with Orunmila.

Ope abise wara.

History is not static, a man asking you to fetch him Yoruba who could read the language of the Egyptian is a man living in an eternal afternoon. Give him exactly that if you can, he'll transform the argument till the long yarn where you feel delirious and just fizzle out.

Such a man is unaware of what obtain at the time in question and as such, neither historian nor an enthusiast but a Yahweh-stalker pretending to be intellectual. Which kwa language is the same? Did the Egyptians and her vassals converse in the same language from archaeological findings?

You don't need all the facts to decide-Mark Twain.

That's the difference between the wisdom born of rigorous mental strength such as exhibited here by original researchers, compared to fallacy promoters waiting to fault anything you could come up with. These are "sub-intellects" pretending to be intellectuals.

To destroy is easy.

@bold, manuscript of knowledge, or book of knowledge.

Philo-Sopher
An adherent of knowledge


Absolutesuccess,
Wa gba'yi!

macof:


Wesley Mohammed is neither a historian nor anthropologist nor is his area of expertise broadly related to finding the origins of West African peoples. He is rather a theologian focused on Islam.
Proper Islamic scholars don't even agree with him or any of the afro centric direction the Nation of Islam takes Islam which is telling a lot.

Many narratives are simply desperate moves to Abrahamize African people.. Yorùbá are not the only ones that suffer this attack.
So it takes a good sense of source critic to identify the historicity of the narratives

Wesley Mohammed doesn't do a bad job in the sense that he tries to make sense of his sources but evidently he is fixed on africanizing Islam that he sometimes quotes authors who maintain a non middle eastern origin for Yoruba but finds away to twist Arabs into the mix ...

First, In his book he attempts to separate the Yoruba into subgroups of different unrelated origins.. This is baseless in real fact
I would love to receive any sort of detail on why anyone would suggest that yoruba subgroups came from different parts of the world and simply met each other in what is now SW Nigeria.
Also his whole position on Arabian origin for Yoruba is based on the oduduwa mecca narrative (I will address this below) which is not based on facts
Thirdly, in his concluding remarks you clearly get a sense of his intention which is to claim that Islam is an African origin, created by Black Arabs and meant for their descendants all over Africa

See the discrepancy?


2. This point of reference to oduduwa would only be relevant if we were still stuck on the idea of a middle eastern origin for oduduwa
[just as some people claimed the Yoruba from inception were from the middle East, many also claimed oduduwa came from the middle East to meet aboriginals]

Rather, appreciation for Ife traditions point to Oduduwa being in fact a local Yoruba man born and breed on a hill community east of the main city before descending and relocating to Igbodio
So there was no case of "the language of the immigrants was lost to the language of the aborigines"
Unless you have empirical facts that indeed oduduwa was not local to this part of the world

Might shock you to be told this after years of hearing oduduwa came from mecca right? But ask yourself where that narrative originates from and what sort of relic supports this


3. There is no basis for the statement that the Semitic language speakers and Kwa language speakers were living in the site of the sahara speaking one language before its desertification

Is Ife consistent on the origin of Oduduwa?

absoluteSuccess:


Great post there bro, but be sure its never enough to amount to anything with these folks, that should help you to understand that here, its each to his own. The truth is this folks have no history to tell us but fault whatever you like bring to the topic from wherever authority you deem fit.

You don't use fact against people that such fact does not impress, fault finding is fact finding to them. So, give your story, there will always be something to nullify it. So its really "christian trying to convert an atheist" mentality at play here on this thread, so thread carefully.

That in itself shows that politics of religion has become the filter by which everyone juxtapose their perception of Yoruba history.

The truth therefore lies in the very "politics of religion" here at play. Just put the sentiment out of it and you will see the truth and the lies pretending to be truth. At the path of the truth lies progress. Falsehood lies in wait, it never continue on its own. It feeds on others' idea.

Yoruba's hebrew heritage

Yoruba history is exactly what you have amongst the Hebrew, whose history forms the corpus of their religion, and [b] I must inform you that the Yoruba were part of the Israelites up till the period of Moses and beyond, hence we have a reference to Moses in Ifa corpus till date.

Moses was a priest, with Ephod (Ifodu as metaphysical and Olu loves to put it) and thurim. In fact, Ifa is Yoruba for "Sopher" (they will rush to google an pretend to have always know what this mean any moment from now, telling us they pluck it from their head in a split seconds).

That scribe culture gave birth to Ifa, and from similar strand, philosophy and sufi, absorbed into Islam from the Attica Hellenism that predates the Arabic enlightenment. So, Sopher, Osofa, Onifa, Adifa: these were ancient chroniclers of the annals of the people among classical orients.

Men such as the early church fathers, (like St. Augustine of Hippo, a moor who brought the whole essence of Aristotelian philosophy into Christianity) compares to a Sopher, knotting two traditions together which themselves have layers deep down the ancient Egyptian culture.

This tradition of knotting records together survive as Ifa in Yoruba. The patron saint of this order is none other than the king Solomon of the Yoruba, Orunmila (heaven rock open), Akere finu s'ogbo. Just as Palm (Ope) is the symbol of the tribe of Judah, it is the same with Orunmila. [/b]

Ope abise wara.

History is not static, a man asking you to fetch him Yoruba who could read the language of the Egyptian is a man living in an eternal afternoon. Give him exactly that if you can, he'll transform the argument till the long yarn where you feel delirious and just fizzle out.

Such a man is unaware of what obtain at the time in question and as such, neither historian nor an enthusiast but a Yahweh-stalker pretending to be intellectual. Which kwa language is the same? Did the Egyptians and her vassals converse in the same language from archaeological findings?

You don't need all the facts to decide-Mark Twain.

That's the difference between the wisdom born of rigorous mental strength such as exhibited here by original researchers, compared to fallacy promoters waiting to fault anything you could come up with. These are "sub-intellects" pretending to be intellectuals.

To destroy is easy.

You keep crying and ranting

Point out one thing that is wrong with my response to lx3as's post.
Point out one thing in my response that is not consistent with facts

If a person asks me what I think about something he read and I gave him my response based on facts available to me how is that "destroying"?

You rant and cry that I point out your errors, well maybe stop claiming things that don't hold water when put to the test
Just as the bolded parts of this post are more ridiculous imaginary claims that have no basis in reality

You are yet to show us a text on coptic Egyptian that is mutually intelligibile with yoruba
Support your claims with facts and stop crying that reality is not like your imaginary world