MetaPhysical:


Is Ife consistent on the origin of Oduduwa?

Yes. If you have been following my posts on oduduwa especially those made on Edo threads I have stated the historical interpretations from ife traditions severally

lx3as:


I don't also support the motive of Wesley Muhammad of seeing everything through Arabian; believing that Oyo-yorubas, Hausas, Borgu were from Arabia. Moreover, suggesting that Oduduwa and Kisra are same, his proposition that the Bible stories took place in the Arabian rather than Philistines and Syria or Cannan was in Arabia is lacking...

I was only looking for where to quote Isola Olomola and Modupe Oduyoye, a Nigerian historian and a linguist in response to your proposition that we're always Kwa speaking family of Niger-Congo...and I found this in his book. I was expecting your response on Olomola and Oduyoye's not muhammad. Notwithstanding, nice response, Bro.

He sees pretty much most of Africa to be the Arab birthright
Only that his idea of Arab is not the Arab we understand but he talks of a Black Arabian group

This is what happens when religious sentiments are brought into academic studies

I believe I addressed the most important point by mentioning that the position that the language of the immigrants was lost to that of the aborigines would only be relevant if we were still stuck on the idea that oduduwa was not a local Yoruba man

Then there's "The linguistic evidence in fact shows extensive contact with Egyptian and Near Eastern languages. If Lucas produced his theory of an Ancient Egyptian-Yorùbá relationship without the benefit of training as a linguist, Nigerian Modupe Oduyoye is a linguist (and exegete) specializing in Yorùbá, Semitic, and Ancient Egyptian languages."
I have seen several lists of words shared between Yoruba and semitic and Egyptian languages.. Several have been posted here
Virtually all of them found to be fake words when using any Egyptian and semitic dictionary
You can read through the thread

Again, one of a historians training is to learn how to critic information

macof:

Yes. If you have been following my posts on oduduwa especially those made on Edo threads I have stated the historical interpretations from ife traditions severally

I know you have. The question is, can one find in Ife contrast accounts about Oduduwa's origin?

Reference to your statement below.

Rather, appreciation for Ife traditions point to Oduduwa being in fact a local Yoruba man born and breed on a hill community east of the main city before descending and relocating to Igbodio
So there was no case of "the language of the immigrants was lost to the language of the aborigines"
Unless you have empirical facts that indeed oduduwa was not local to this part of the world

macof:


Wesley Mohammed is neither a historian nor anthropologist nor is his area of expertise broadly related to finding the origins of West African peoples. He is rather a theologian focused on Islam.
Proper Islamic scholars don't even agree with him or any of the afro centric direction the Nation of Islam takes Islam which is telling a lot.

Many narratives are simply desperate moves to Abrahamize African people.. Yorùbá are not the only ones that suffer this attack.
So it takes a good sense of source critic to identify the historicity of the narratives

Wesley Mohammed doesn't do a bad job in the sense that he tries to make sense of his sources but evidently he is fixed on africanizing Islam that he sometimes quotes authors who maintain a non middle eastern origin for Yoruba but finds away to twist Arabs into the mix ...

First, In his book he attempts to separate the Yoruba into subgroups of different unrelated origins.. This is baseless in real fact
I would love to receive any sort of detail on why anyone would suggest that yoruba subgroups came from different parts of the world and simply met each other in what is now SW Nigeria.
Also his whole position on Arabian origin for Yoruba is based on the oduduwa mecca narrative (I will address this below) which is not based on facts
Thirdly, in his concluding remarks you clearly get a sense of his intention which is to claim that Islam is an African origin, created by Black Arabs and meant for their descendants all over Africa

See the discrepancy?


2. This point of reference to oduduwa would only be relevant if we were still stuck on the idea of a middle eastern origin for oduduwa
[just as some people claimed the Yoruba from inception were from the middle East, many also claimed oduduwa came from the middle East to meet aboriginals]



Rather, appreciation for Ife traditions point to Oduduwa being in fact a local Yoruba man born and breed on a hill community east of the main city before descending and relocating to Igbodio
So there was no case of "the language of the immigrants was lost to the language of the aborigines"




Unless you have empirical facts that indeed oduduwa was not local to this part of the world

Might shock you to be told this after years of hearing oduduwa came from mecca right? But ask yourself where that narrative originates from and what sort of relic supports this


3. There is no basis for the statement that the Semitic language speakers and Kwa language speakers were living in the site of the sahara speaking one language before its desertification

macof:


You keep crying and ranting

Point out one thing that is wrong with my response to lx3as's post.
Point out one thing in my response that is not consistent with facts

If a person asks me what I think about something he read and I gave him my response based on facts available to me how is that "destroying"?

You rant and cry that I point out your errors, well maybe stop claiming things that don't hold water when put to the test
Just as the bolded parts of this post are more ridiculous imaginary claims that have no basis in reality

You are yet to show us a text on coptic Egyptian that is mutually intelligibile with yoruba
Support your claims with facts and stop crying that reality is not like your imaginary world

You are a very clever person, no doubt. You have uncanny ability to do a cover-up job that will take forever to unravelled.

You alluded to the tradition of Oduduwa descending from a hilly country where he was trained. Baba, that's great.

Since this is tradition, give us a validation of this tradition strictly from Yoruba fixed oral tradition from where this is sourced from.

I want to tell you that you are cleverly re-introducing Oduduwa of the same reputation and description of Samuel Johnson's.

So you haven't created any value but pushing value around under a different guise. The "heaven" of tradition now becomes "the hill".

Therefore, your tradition is an urban legend born out of failures to grasp the axiom of in-depth technicalities of writing a research.

Leave the heavens to be heaven or agree with the original tradition. Don't improve or improvise for it or be gun for another different theory.

Now this is where you failed

I went the other day to see a post of yours that you made for a particular place to gather information online about a place in Ekiti.

To my chagrin surprise, the post is nowhere to be found. That's a litmus test to your claim to be an historian. What historian gather facts online?

What in the name of research methodology is that? Worst off, you failed and turn the thread to something else.

Now that place is important to me. Produce that thread or get behind me. You failed on your own quest now trying to spread that virus everywhere.

@metaphysical

absoluteSuccess:




You are a very clever person, no doubt. You have uncanny ability to do a cover-up job that will take forever to unravelled.

You alluded to the tradition of Oduduwa descending from a hilly country where he was trained. Baba, that's great.

Since this is tradition, give us a validation of this tradition strictly from Yoruba fixed oral tradition from where this is sourced from.

I want to tell you that you are cleverly re-introducing Oduduwa of the same reputation and description of Samuel Johnson's.

So you haven't created any value but pushing value around under a different guise. The "heaven" of tradition now becomes "the hill".

Therefore, your tradition is an urban legend born out of failures to grasp the axiom of in-depth technicalities of writing a research.

Leave the heavens to be heaven or agree with the original tradition. Don't improve or improvise for it or be gun for another different theory.

Now this is where you failed

I went the other day to see a post of yours that you made for a particular place to gather information online about a place in Ekiti.

To my chagrin surprise, the post is nowhere to be found. That's a litmus test to your claim to be an historian. What historian gather facts online?

What in the name of research methodology is that? Worst off, you failed and turn the thread to something else.

Now that place is important to me. Produce that thread or get behind me. You failed on your own quest now trying to spread that virus everywhere.

You have a real problem of ranting and crying when you can't have your way. You cannot point out any of my statements that are not consistent with facts that's just it , plain and simple. Meanwhile you still haven't presented the coptic text that a Yoruba speaker can understand

i have given the source to this information many times - Ooni coronation, odun Idio etc all present a clear positioning of oke-ora in Oduduwa's life.
The historical narrative does not challenge the spritual or mythical. Oduduwa is both the orisa that came from orun to create the earth as he is the man that came from oke-ora to become King of Ife...these are both original traditions from the Obadio and Isoro in general. Every Yoruba Orisa has two sides, one human, one spiritual. people may mix both up creating a legend but relics exist that serious historians observe and interprete for the historical context within. Therefore looking at ife traditions (festivals, shrines, rites and rituals) there is always a pointer to how far the spiritual aspect of an orisa has encroached on the historical/Human and it is the historians job to present the historical as "historical" as possible otherwise there is no history.
You have said this confuses you a lot of times, which is to be expected, you do not have the mind or intention of a historian, you are just doing abrahamic evangelism based on your faith in your imagination and attachment to those your religion talks about
When you fail to stay in your lane and focus on whatever you did not finish studying at the polytechnic you find yourself out of place and confused

As the foremost historian of our time and current yoruba leader Prof. Akintoye puts it "there is a wealth of historical data in oral traditions, rituals, festivals and folklore...all this have greatly helped and encouraged the study of yoruba history in our times"

Prof. Akanmu Adebayo

macof:


You keep crying and ranting

Point out one thing that is wrong with my response to lx3as's post.
Point out one thing in my response that is not consistent with facts

Things you love to say to appear terrifying to the next person who may dare to quote you. I'm used to your gimmicks. Your last post above shows who is weeping inside. I've done your bid already.

Soon, you will go and bring your prof here when all your veil that you call "history" is tore up to shreds. You don't have any idea how Yoruba history work. I will teach you.

If a person asks me what I think about something he read and I gave him my response based on facts available to me how is that "destroying"?

I've said Sigidi is another word for Ere in my response to metaphysical not quite long, and so fast and furious, you jumped on it and I respectfully said both could be right, but that's not enough for you.

Because you must destroy than share your glory with anyone. Others can't be right when you are right, they just have to be wrong, that's responsible for your lethal responses here.

When I asked you to proof your point with another term for statue in Yoruba, did you come back? So what's your "fact" like that you glorify yourself so much in it?

You rant and cry that I point out your errors, well maybe stop claiming things that don't hold water when put to the test
Just as the bolded parts of this post are more ridiculous imaginary claims that have no basis in reality

You are a very big fool and olodo. I haven't told you that you failed to understand it's not homophone you aught to be particular about in my last response to tao, but because you always trail everyone with your "enemy mentality", you never know I intended transitive verbs.

Had I alluded to that, it's what you will rather attack. By attacking me for homophones, you miss the point that it's not about homophones but transitive verbs that's the idea being expounded.

You should have enlighten Tao about homophones instead of me. Transitive verbs is not yet part of your lexicon. The same way, the bolded is not yet clear to you so you can strike as usual.

So, destroying others' inputs blur your intelligence and equally revealed that you think from what you are offered. You get online and edit stuffs and make it your own. If not you are actually somewhere destroying something else.

You just needed the idea and next, you shred it. It's easy to destroy. What became of your thread about the place in Ekiti? You don't have mental strength to build but to copy and paste. You don't build but destroy.

You are yet to show us a text on coptic Egyptian that is mutually intelligibile with yoruba
Support your claims with facts and stop crying that reality is not like your imaginary world

Well, I needed to visit your world to know what the "reality" you alluded to looks like. You have conceited that the Yoruba had texts expected to be mutually intelligible with Coptic Egyptian for you to accept my claim to that effect, isn't it?

By the law of unintended consequences, you already agreed that Yoruba had texts. What characters form the text of the indeginous Yoruba phonology which may be at variance with Coptic Egyptian as you wont to prove?

You do the work that comes from the world you think from. You shouldn't make an habit of getting others to do the job and you raving in the glory of destruction.

Proof your mettle to be creative too.

absoluteSuccess:
quote author=macof post=90287924]

You keep crying and ranting

Point out one thing that is wrong with my response to lx3as's post.
Point out one thing in my response that is not consistent with facts



Things you love to say to appear terrifying to the next person who may dare to quote you. I'm used to your gimmicks. Your last post above shows who is weeping inside. I've done your bid already.

Soon, you will go and bring your prof here when all your veil that you call "history" is tore up to shreds. You don't have any idea how Yoruba history work. I will teach you.



If a person asks me what I think about something he read and I gave him my response based on facts available to me how is that "destroying"?



I've said Sigidi is another word for Ere in my response to metaphysical not quite long, and so fast and furious, you jumped on it and I respectfully said both could be right, but that's not enough for you.

Next you came back in your usual carnival mood trying to disgrace yourself and I asked you to proof your point with another term for statue in Yoruba, did you come back? So what's your "fact" like that you glorify yourself so much in it?



You rant and cry that I point out your errors, well maybe stop claiming things that don't hold water when put to the test
Just as the bolded parts of this post are more ridiculous imaginary claims that have no basis in reality



You are a very big fool and olodo. I haven't told you that you failed to understand it's not homophone you aught to be particular about in my last response to tao, but because you always trail everyone with your "enemy mentality", you never know I intended transitive verbs.

Had I alluded to that, it's what you will rather attack. By attacking me for homophones, you miss the point that it's not about homophones but transitive verbs that's the idea being expounded.

You should have enlighten Tao about homophones instead of me. Transitive verbs is not yet part of your lexicon. The same way, the bolded is not yet clear to you so you can strike as usual.

So, destroying others' inputs blur your intelligence and equally revealed that you think from what you are offered. You get online and edit stuffs and make it your own. If not you are actually somewhere destroying something else.

You just needed the idea and next, you shred it. It's easy to destroy. What became of your thread about the place in Ekiti? You don't have mental strength to build but to copy and paste. You don't build but destroy.



You are yet to show us a text on coptic Egyptian that is mutually intelligibile with yoruba
Support your claims with facts and stop crying that reality is not like your imaginary world



Well, I needed to visit your world to know what the "reality" you alluded to looks like. You have conceited that the Yoruba had texts expected to be mutually intelligible with Coptic Egyptian for you to accept my claim to that effect, isn't it?

By the law of unintended consequences, you already agreed that Yoruba had texts. What characters form the text of the indeginous Yoruba phonology which may be at variance with Coptic Egyptian as you wont to prove?

You do the work that comes from the world you think from. You shouldn't make an habit of getting others to do the job and you raving in the glory of destruction.

Proof your mettle to be creative too.

lol what is this nonsense address the posts if you must quote them and stop ranting in your response just to put in a reply. Let your reply contain context and meaningful response to the post you are replying to.

I'm still waiting for the coptic text... "provide the coptic texts that a yoruba speaker can understand" is what i said ...so your reply makes no sense as usual just rants
Historians are not creative artists like you

macof:


lol what is this nonsense address the posts if you must quote them and stop ranting in your response just to put in a reply. Let your reply contain context and meaningful response to the post you are replying to.

I'm still waiting for the coptic text... "provide the coptic texts that a yoruba speaker can understand" is what i said ...so your reply makes no sense as usual just rants
Historians are not creative artists like you

Provide the Coptic text that a Yoruba speaker trained in hieroglyphs (Coptic educated) that lived through ancient Egypt to modern times can understand you mean?

You definitely lives in an eternal afternoon.

absoluteSuccess:


Provide the Coptic text that a Yoruba speaker trained in hieroglyphs (Coptic educated) that lived through ancient Egypt to modern times can understand you mean?

You definitely lives in an eternal afternoon.

this guy is a clown.
What a clownish set of people

You know exactly what you have to provide, you know the claims you and Olu make about Yoruba and Egyptian languages
Do the needful and put yourself to the work. Learn to make claims you can defend
And attempt to defend claims only when you can actually defend them

macof:

this guy is a clown.
What a clownish set of people

You know exactly what you have to provide, you know the claims you and Olu make about Yoruba and Egyptian languages
Do the needful and put yourself to the work. Learn to make claims you can defend
And attempt to defend claims only when you can actually defend them

You can't think beyond the limits of your intelligent quotient. You can't beat the reach.

You are the one making a request, just look into the request you are making please.

And you can't possibly impose your limits on me. You are the one stuck to your limits.

macof:
@metaphysical
You have a real problem of ranting and crying when you can't have your way. You cannot point out any of my statements that are not consistent with facts that's just it , plain and simple. Meanwhile you still haven't presented the coptic text that a Yoruba speaker can understand

i have given the source to this information many times - Ooni coronation, odun Idio etc all present a clear positioning of oke-ora in Oduduwa's life.
The historical narrative does not challenge the spritual or mythical. Oduduwa is both the orisa that came from orun to create the earth as he is the man that came from oke-ora to become King of Ife...these are both original traditions from the Obadio and Isoro in general. Every Yoruba Orisa has two sides, one human, one spiritual. people may mix both up creating a legend but relics exist that serious historians observe and interprete for the historical context within. Therefore looking at ife traditions (festivals, shrines, rites and rituals) there is always a pointer to how far the spiritual aspect of an orisa has encroached on the historical/Human and it is the historians job to present the historical as "historical" as possible otherwise there is no history.
You have said this confuses you a lot of times, which is to be expected, you do not have the mind or intention of a historian, you are just doing abrahamic evangelism based on your faith in your imagination and attachment to those your religion talks about
When you fail to stay in your lane and focus on whatever you did not finish studying at the polytechnic you find yourself out of place and confused

As the foremost historian of our time and current yoruba leader Prof. Akintoye puts it "there is a wealth of historical data in oral traditions, rituals, festivals and folklore...all this have greatly helped and encouraged the study of yoruba history in our times"

Prof. Akanmu Adebayo

It should be clear to you that your junk is very plain.

The "heaven" in the descent of Oduduwa has become a hill, and the chain means climbing down the hill to take over.

Keep dressing up plagiarism as "history". Of all that your tradition claims to offer, you are still stuck to Samuel Johnson's.

You will always allude to tradition but will never ever have a clue to it's instructive secrets.

absoluteSuccess:


It should be clear to you that your junk is very plain.

The "heaven" in the descent of Oduduwa has become a hill, and the chain means climbing down the hill to take over.

Keep dressing up plagiarism as "history". Of all that your tradition claims to offer, you are still stuck to Samuel Johnson's.

You will always allude to tradition but will never ever have a clue to it's instructive secrets.

Lmao
OK. Now run along
Everything obviously flown past your head which is not surprising, you've been incapable of comprehending anything before so I was expecting you to suddenly have sense

macof:

Lmao
OK. Now run along
Everything obviously flown past your head which is not surprising, you've been incapable of comprehending anything before so I was expecting you to suddenly have sense

You are a joke guy, enlightenment eludes you seriously. If I may ask, what later became of the thread you made about a place in Ekiti those days?

-Ekiti, The History...

You couldn't figure out or find answers. No professor has blaze the trail and you were not trained to do the job but to get it done for you to critique. It's all you do as the "little Lord Templar".

Take note, I've earlier asked you an intellectual question: what were the character set of the ancient Yoruba's literary text like? You should know it as the go-to man of history.

That question never struct your mind because your prof has never entertain such thought. But you are desperate to ridicule others with a ridiculous question that betrayed your very wit.

You never think ahead, you think afterwards.

Bloody foreigner.

Macof the student of abracadabra

I believe you actually studied 'Abracadabra" in the university, and you have the highest title in that discipline. It turned out to be "history" to the world with your moniker.

If not, one wonders what kind of watery source you cites when occasion demand for it just as you have done in providing convincing evidence on Oduduwa above.

And you, who could take anyone to a cleaner who thinks differently from you is equally susceptible to lies and cover-ups in the name of "Yoruba tradition". That leaves a lot to be desired.

After all said and done with your dressing up of plagiarism as history, you still couldn't offer a piece right where Oduduwa was being trained or led down the hill in an epoch making progression of conquest of yours either in your blabbing or citation.

So where's really the source of such blatant assumptions you are confident to employ as silencer of the original idea being suppressed?

Yet you sutured the Pro. Akande's work twice but God knows how or why it's at that very point of coming down the cliff that your source ended abruptly.

It's the kind of blindfold you are keen to create as "non creative" historian.

I've wandered what classified documents will look like in real life in your care. And your quote from the Prof. equally shows you don't critique but assume stuffs into "history" when it's what you want.

Or how do one explain an all-star epoch having all the heroes and heroin of Yoruba in one place, at the same time, and Olokun was the wife of Obatala, and all that. It appeared "Genesis Syndrome" to me, if you know what it means.

You are not really sound, just clever. How was the quarter allotted to Obatala a watershed to his title, "Oba takuntan lode iranje"? And how does Olokun of your source in harmony with the one in tradition of Ifa?

"Ifa Olokun asorodayo, eleri ipin, aya Obatala, yeye tiigbomo lojo ogun le" do we have something like this in any fixed oral record or we just go by the latest improvement on what one prof earlier thinks?

What validates your duality of individuals in Yoruba history as humans in one place and an orisa in another place other than plain lies? If anyone should teach me my history, it wouldn't be a foreigner.

Go and teach the history of the place you came from.

MetaPhysical:


@bold, manuscript of knowledge, or book of knowledge.

Philo-Sopher
An adherent of knowledge


Absolutesuccess,
Wa gba'yi!

You are apt for it sir.

Unfortunately, your guy macof sees every Egyptian of old as sofer, scribes who could read and write, without prior training, the very essence that ancient aristocrats guard jealously in their court.

He's here asking for a Coptic text that a Yoruba man can understand, as if it's all Egyptian who could read Coptic text either, or that there should be a time traveller to validate every claim made.

Not being able to detect sensitive information in one's acclaimed field put a big question mark on that person's claim to expertise. If that's the way experts think, the Rosetta Stone will be useless.

He always waits on the professor.

macof:


You keep crying and ranting

Point out one thing that is wrong with my response to lx3as's post.
Point out one thing in my response that is not consistent with facts

If a person asks me what I think about something he read and I gave him my response based on facts available to me how is that "destroying"?

You rant and cry that I point out your errors, well maybe stop claiming things that don't hold water when put to the test
Just as the bolded parts of this post are more ridiculous imaginary claims that have no basis in reality

You are yet to show us a text on coptic Egyptian that is mutually intelligibile with yoruba
Support your claims with facts and stop crying that reality is not like your imaginary world

You are just too ignorant to even chat with. But thank God,book written on Yoruba Art by Sussan Blier, is newer than Professor Akintoye. Thus, you are the one full of pseudo information.

Are you even aware Phonecians invaded West Africa in search of people and things ?

Note:
Stop lying and go back to school to acquire more knowledge.

Olu317:


You are just too ignorant to even chat with. But thank God,book written on Yoruba Art by Sussan Blier, is newer than Professor Akintoye. Thus, you are the one full of pseudo information.

Are you even aware Phonecians invaded West Africa in search of people and things ?

Note:
Stop lying and go back to school to acquire more knowledge.

Suzanne Blier doesn't state anything that justifies your semitic origin claim
So stop mentioning her work
I've read all her works so I know

PS. Phoenicians did not invade West Africa, a carthaginian (a North African colony of the phoenicians) Explorer called Hanno sailed across the coast of west africa and had little contact with some kingdoms and settlements in modern Senegal/Guinea

Next time give the correct information and stop trying to twist things

Also contact is not same as origin Dumbass
That the carthaginians sailed to West Africa and saw people there means West Africans have been here
So what is the basis of mentioning this?

absoluteSuccess:
Macof the student of abracadabra

I believe you actually studied 'Abracadabra" in the university, and you have the highest title in that discipline. It turned out to be "history" to the world with your moniker.

If not, one wonders what kind of watery source you cites when occasion demand for it just as you have done in providing convincing evidence on Oduduwa above.

And you, who could take anyone to a cleaner who thinks differently from you is equally susceptible to lies and cover-ups in the name of "Yoruba tradition". That leaves a lot to be desired.

After all said and done with your dressing up of plagiarism as history, you still couldn't offer a piece right where Oduduwa was being trained or led down the hill in an epoch making progression of conquest of yours either in your blabbing or citation.

So where's really the source of such blatant assumptions you are confident to employ as silencer of the original idea being suppressed?

Yet you sutured the Pro. Akande's work twice but God knows how or why it's at that very point of coming down the cliff that your source ended abruptly.

It's the kind of blindfold you are keen to create as "non creative" historian.

I've wandered what classified documents will look like in real life in your care. And your quote from the Prof. equally shows you don't critique but assume stuffs into "history" when it's what you want.

Or how do one explain an all-star epoch having all the heroes and heroin of Yoruba in one place, at the same time, and Olokun was the wife of Obatala, and all that. It appeared "Genesis Syndrome" to me, if you know what it means.

You are not really sound, just clever. How was the quarter allotted to Obatala a watershed to his title, "Oba takuntan lode iranje"? And how does Olokun of your source in harmony with the one in tradition of Ifa?

"Ifa Olokun asorodayo, eleri ipin, aya Obatala, yeye tiigbomo lojo ogun le" do we have something like this in any fixed oral record or we just go by the latest improvement on what one prof earlier thinks?

What validates your duality of individuals in Yoruba history as humans in one place and an orisa in another place other than plain lies? If anyone should teach me my history, it wouldn't be a foreigner.

Go and teach the history of the place you came from.

More rants and cries

I stated that oduduwa originates from Òkè-Ọ̀rà I gave you my sources
You can't refute them so you end up crying and blasting the thread with lamentations against me

Lmao bloody Jobless clown

macof:


More rants and cries

I stated that oduduwa originates from Òkè-Ọ̀rà I gave you my sources
You can't refute them so you end up crying and blasting the thread with lamentations against me

Lmao bloody Jobless clown

Oh I can't refute your claim because Oduduwa's grandfather was buried at oke ora just like the queen of Sheba was buried at oke eri? The mortal evidence speak for itself.

So, what makes this your claim that's void of oral parralels and archeological validations different from the ones you slammed as fake? Except your confidence in your prof is "validaton of history".

Guy I need to see what you saw in that write up that makes you agree with the claim. I believe you are stuck here You are the immutable evidence that your brain is made of fufu.

Bloody alien.

absoluteSuccess:


Oh I can't refute your claim because Oduduwa's grandfather was buried at oke ora just like the queen of Sheba was buried at oke eri? The mortal evidence speak for itself.

So, what makes this your claim that's void of oral parralels and archeological validations different from the ones you slammed as fake? Except your confidence in your prof is "validaton of history".

Guy I need to see what you saw in that write up that makes you agree with the claim. I believe you are stuck here You are the immutable evidence that your brain is made of fufu.

Bloody alien.

Festivals, Rituals and rites of ife corroborate the oral tradition from the Obadio and Isoro in general
I don't expect you to know that because you have no traditional background or contact but those who do have made their publications

Those who have knowledge and contact of Ife traditions have examined the source itself and we now know that oduduwa was indeed a local Yoruba man not a foreigner you Abrahamics so desperately want to be

If you want to challenge this, you can go to Ife yourself

Imagine a person who wants to be a foreigner so bad calling me a foreigner
Go and bring your elders, all of them in your family I am more Yoruba than them

macof:


Festivals, Rituals and rites of ife corroborate the oral tradition from the Obadio and Isoro in general

And the same festival, rituals and rites were taken to different places the Yoruba went from here to perpetuate the name of Oduduwa and validate this microscopic event as the dawn of Yoruba civilization?

I should be able to access the analog from any place in Yoruba where the name Oduduwa is named. But since the Yoruba audience takes Oduduwa as the beginning of Yoruba history, how is this event same as "day one" of the Yoruba race?

Don't do your abracadabra on this, just give cogent clarification. What's the difference between Oduduwa and Uthman Dan Fodio, knowing fully well that your source is an "ex-post facto"?

How was your Oduduwa perpetuated in Yoruba history before the emergence of the historical works of Samuel Johnson? Just like you asked lawani regarding lamurudu?

Oriki, shrine, deification, Ifa mentions, any pristine material that could help from other places beyond the source of your claim to make it an all encompassing.

I don't expect you to know that because you have no traditional background or contact but those who do have made their publications.

History to you is not history but "cult object", then Yoruba history is a "cult tradition" held up by secret society and it's facts are not in the public domain.

Since the history is mystery, you ceased to be a part of the secular practice of history but a mystic. You should quote from them, why rely on academics to solve same problem when you have answers?

Why impose your mystic beliefs on secular study when the cult source of your claim is classified?

Those who have knowledge and contact of Ife traditions have examined the source itself and we now know that oduduwa was indeed a local Yoruba man not a foreigner you Abrahamics so desperately want to be

If you want to challenge this, you can go to Ife yourself

Those folks are definitely no authoritative historians but puppets of Ife if it's the one and only place they exermine to validate their claims on Oduduwa. They have it conceived and executed to please their ideal.

They achieved an end that makes the icon a foggy character that appeared from no known past to become king. The first king and for whatever end that such is fashionable.

That done, the event become so forgettable that it took millenniums to remember this forgettable event through the efforts of the abrahamics. It turned out that his only achievement is that he was a king. Our own Alexander the great.

My best regards to the elders of Ife in your post. Historians are not trained to validate sensational improvements but to find out more, not less. History did not happen in silo of time.

Imagine a person who wants to be a foreigner so bad calling me a foreigner

You don't have clue how intellectual thoughts are formed. You revved up recently to have a Coptic text that "a Yoruba man can understand", I tried to correct you how to put your idea in good historical perspective, it sounds clownish to you.

That's the proof that you don't know what you don't know. Coptic text should not be understood by the first person to come across it, it should be "deciphered". It's a crypt like "script" that you have to study for, be schooled to know.

Such manuscripts should come from the ancient, and such time refers to antiquity. Now alluding to antiquity in a historical perspective is not the same as being a proselytized convert trying to identify with the source of his faith.

Just as the abrahamics helped you uncovered your Oduduwa was a local man, it helps other resources from antiquity reveal their antique qualities that cannot be restricted to present day Yorubaland because they were not traced from there in antiquity.

A good instance in this regard is iseri, Iba etc. This is not a place at Ife. Let me stop here.

Go and bring your elders, all of them in your family I am more Yoruba than them

That's the evidence that you are not a Yoruba: the fact that you wipe out a thread pointing to a place that could be a cover-up to your claim to Ekiti, and put this "coping mechanism" up there.

I am born at Ado Odo, Iga Isolo precisely. It's the house next to the court of Olofin Adimula Odu'a. In the tradition of Ado, the Osolo crowns the Oba Ado. Osolo was the first king of Ota.

Nisolo ni won bimi si, Baba wa peluwon lonile....

That's the difference. Your claim to Yoruba is validated by your claim above. You are Yoruba by being more Yoruba than me and my elders.

I won't say more. The difference is clear. Omo ale eniyan nii f'owo osi juwe ile baba e" you have pointed out your family house in Yorubaland. Knowledge is too hard for you.

Next, you have the archeological validations for your claim on the Wikipedia page, thanks for that.

macof:
@metaphysical
You have a real problem of ranting and crying when you can't have your way. You cannot point out any of my statements that are not consistent with facts that's just it , plain and simple. Meanwhile you still haven't presented the coptic text that a Yoruba speaker can understand

i have given the source to this information many times - Ooni coronation, odun Idio etc all present a clear positioning of oke-ora in Oduduwa's life.
The historical narrative does not challenge the spritual or mythical. Oduduwa is both the orisa that came from orun to create the earth as he is the man that came from oke-ora to become King of Ife...these are both original traditions from the Obadio and Isoro in general. Every Yoruba Orisa has two sides, one human, one spiritual. people may mix both up creating a legend but relics exist that serious historians observe and interprete for the historical context within. Therefore looking at ife traditions (festivals, shrines, rites and rituals) there is always a pointer to how far the spiritual aspect of an orisa has encroached on the historical/Human and it is the historians job to present the historical as "historical" as possible otherwise there is no history.
You have said this confuses you a lot of times, which is to be expected, you do not have the mind or intention of a historian, you are just doing abrahamic evangelism based on your faith in your imagination and attachment to those your religion talks about
When you fail to stay in your lane and focus on whatever you did not finish studying at the polytechnic you find yourself out of place and confused

As the foremost historian of our time and current yoruba leader Prof. Akintoye puts it "there is a wealth of historical data in oral traditions, rituals, festivals and folklore...all this have greatly helped and encouraged the study of yoruba history in our times"

Prof. Akanmu Adebayo

Yoruba are not Niger Congo or upper or lower guinea.. We moved to our present location from east /North of Africa due to war .. we have two group of people in west Africa .Arid people from the east north region of Africa and forest primitive from the southern forest bantus pigmies ..

macof:


Festivals, Rituals and rites of ife corroborate the oral tradition from the Obadio and Isoro in general
I don't expect you to know that because you have no traditional background or contact but those who do have made their publications

Those who have knowledge and contact of Ife traditions have examined the source itself and we now know that oduduwa was indeed a local Yoruba man not a foreigner you Abrahamics so desperately want to be

If you want to challenge this, you can go to Ife yourself

Imagine a person who wants to be a foreigner so bad calling me a foreigner
Go and bring your elders, all of them in your family I am more Yoruba than them

What do you know about Oke Ora? Oduduwa ascend from Heaven fact believe it or not

MetaPhysical:


I know you have. The question is, can one find in Ife contrast accounts about Oduduwa's origin?

Reference to your statement below.

Oduduwa descend from heaven at Oke -Ora likewise Oranfe Onile ina ...Oduduwa ateworo

About Oduduwa from my Petit journal.

The pocket size book was published few years back, 2015 precisely.

All we have could be little, little and truthful fact is better than a whole lot of lies.

And don't judge a book by its cover.

absoluteSuccess:


And the same festival, rituals and rites were taken to different places the Yoruba went from here to perpetuate the name of Oduduwa and validate this microscopic event as the dawn of Yoruba civilization?

I should be able to access the analog from any place in Yoruba where the name Oduduwa is named. But since the Yoruba audience takes Oduduwa as the beginning of Yoruba history, how is this event same as "day one" of the Yoruba race?

Don't do your abracadabra on this, just give cogent clarification. What's the difference between Oduduwa and Uthman Dan Fodio, knowing fully well that your source is an "ex-post facto"?

How was your Oduduwa perpetuated in Yoruba history before the emergence of the historical works of Samuel Johnson? Just like you asked lawani regarding lamurudu?

Oriki, shrine, deification, Ifa mentions, any pristine material that could help from other places beyond the source of your claim to make it an all encompassing.



History to you is not history but "cult object", then Yoruba history is a "cult tradition" held up by secret society and it's facts are not in the public domain.

Since the history is mystery, you ceased to be a part of the secular practice of history but a mystic. You should quote from them, why rely on academics to solve same problem when you have answers?

Why impose your mystic beliefs on secular study when the cult source of your claim is classified?



Those folks are definitely no authoritative historians but puppets of Ife if it's the one and only place they exermine to validate their claims on Oduduwa. They have it conceived and executed to please their ideal.

They achieved an end that makes the icon a foggy character that appeared from no known past to become king. The first king and for whatever end that such is fashionable.

That done, the event become so forgettable that it took millenniums to remember this forgettable event through the efforts of the abrahamics. It turned out that his only achievement is that he was a king. Our own Alexander the great.

My best regards to the elders of Ife in your post. Historians are not trained to validate sensational improvements but to find out more, not less. History did not happen in silo of time.



You don't have clue how intellectual thoughts are formed. You revved up recently to have a Coptic text that "a Yoruba man can understand", I tried to correct you how to put your idea in good historical perspective, it sounds clownish to you.

That's the proof that you don't know what you don't know. Coptic text should not be understood by the first person to come across it, it should be "deciphered". It's a crypt like "script" that you have to study for, be schooled to know.

Such manuscripts should come from the ancient, and such time refers to antiquity. Now alluding to antiquity in a historical perspective is not the same as being a proselytized convert trying to identify with the source of his faith.

Just as the abrahamics helped you uncovered your Oduduwa was a local man, it helps other resources from antiquity reveal their antique qualities that cannot be restricted to present day Yorubaland because they were not traced from there in antiquity.

A good instance in this regard is iseri, Iba etc. This is not a place at Ife. Let me stop here.



That's the evidence that you are not a Yoruba: the fact that you wipe out a thread pointing to a place that could be a cover-up to your claim to Ekiti, and put this "coping mechanism" up there.

I am born at Ado Odo, Iga Isolo precisely. It's the house next to the court of Olofin Adimula Odu'a. In the tradition of Ado, the Osolo crowns the Oba Ado. Osolo was the first king of Ota.

Nisolo ni won bimi si, Baba wa peluwon lonile....

That's the difference. Your claim to Yoruba is validated by your claim above. You are Yoruba by being more Yoruba than me and my elders.

I won't say more. The difference is clear. Omo ale eniyan nii f'owo osi juwe ile baba e" you have pointed out your family house in Yorubaland. Knowledge is too hard for you.

Next, you have the archeological validations for your claim on the Wikipedia page, thanks for that.

more painful and bitter rants and cries.

If you have any facts that refute any of the conclusions I have presented here, do state such facts
.. Third time I'm asking
Do that not coming to cry on my mentions because you are just desperate to be Hebrew

absoluteSuccess:
About Oduduwa from my Petit journal.

The pocket size book was published few years back, 2015 precisely.

All we have could be little, little and truthful fact is better than a whole lot of lies.

And don't judge a book by its cover.

LOL. Your command of yoruba language is poor for someone who calls me a non Yoruba and claims to be an expert Yoruba language decoder or cripted programmer or how do you call it again?

Ọlọfin is a dialectical version of Alaafin that stuck due to popularity.
In central and eastern Yoruba dialects it is Ọfin (Palace).
Not "one who twists the rules" ..

There is no Ewọ (taboo) in Atẹwọrọ
Atẹwọnrọ/Atẹwọrọ - Atẹ̀ (like A tẹ̀lé = to follow) , ẹwọn (chain), rọ (descend)
So it means to descend through a chain

You should really stop, it's disgraceful what you do

macof:


LOL. Your command of yoruba language is poor for someone who calls me a non Yoruba and claims to be an expert Yoruba language decoder or cripted programmer or how do you call it again?

Ọlọfin is a dialectical version of Alaafin that stuck due to popularity.
In central and eastern Yoruba dialects it is Ọfin (Palace).
Not "one who twists the rules" ..

There is no Ewọ (taboo) in Atẹwọrọ
Atẹwọnrọ/Atẹwọrọ - Atẹ̀ (like A tẹ̀lé = to follow) , ẹwọn (chain), rọ (descend)
So it means to descend through a chain

You should really stop, it's disgraceful what you do

Did he really NOT KNOW what Ọlọfin and Atẹwọnrọ mean?

I'm shocked (irony!)

Macof, your grasp of the Yoruba language is astoundingly firm. I am beyond pleased.

To add my voice to this for obvious reasons:

"Olu-Afin" = "Alaafin" = "Ọlọfin" = Alaọfin = "The Principal One of the Palace".

The NorthEastern Okun-Yoruba regions use the version Alaọfin.

The Aworis of Lagos use the version Ọlọfin.


It is disgraceful how people who obviously should still be learning how to apply diacritics to Yoruba vowels seem to be self-deluded into thinking of themselves as scholars of Yoruba history and language.

Macof, I think you are expecting too much from those who can't even tell the difference between the letters "O" and "Ọ".

I challenge these self-deluding "scholars" to tell the difference between the following Yoruba words:

(1.) Okó

(2.) Ọkọ́

(3.) Oko

(4.) Ọkọ̀

(5.) Ọkọ

(6.) Ọ̀kọ̀

(7.) Òkò

(8.) Ó ko

(9.) Ó kò

(10) Ó kò ó

Ayinike

The import of ayinike and ayinipada is this: you don't know what idea of a word is earlier or later. But since history did not happen in silo like I've said, people who were around when an event happened have their impression of it. They take mental notes.

Then there's how they will express this impression of theirs. Amongst this are the scholars, they'll coin some nice words or phrase that circulate the Yoruba with time, like a newspaper outfits of our time with killer headlines.

Then there's the everyday people. This folks don't wait for anyone to tell them what to make of a word for an idea or two from what has happened. Together, the news that breaks travelled through Yorubaland.

This "traveling news" is ayi, and the word coined to this effect is Ike. But there's how the word was when coined. That's "nike". Pardon the way I split it up disorderly.

Communication theory of old

So the idea expounded in this case is parralel to communication theory, source-destination-feedback. Effective communication generates feedback. The feedback is "the traveling news returning to it's source". It's not the same word again.

Ayinipada is how the everyday folks report the same event that scholars finds pleasant words for in their practice as courtiers or wordsmiths. It could be rough and ready but over a long time it becomes a lovely word about the same event.

So this duality is responsible for double in Yoruba history, such that one can serve as evidence for the other. All things being equal, these entries are more than double in Yoruba history. Let's restrict ourselves to double.

Having this resources at the back of the mind helps to do more with a word and it's other angles from the ancient media outfits that may have reported the same event.

Examples

We learned that Oduduwa had 7 children, but in that chronology, an entry was repeated twice: Ake and Owu. The two words is our best example. Let's exploit Owu tradition.

It's said Owu lakoda because he was crying when Oduduwa carried him, and he removed his crown and place it on the head of Owu. The lad was pacified. People saw what happened.

To some, the child is Owu, meaning wailer. To another, the child is a cry cry baby, meaning ake, and to salaye people, it's "asunkungbade", they could even call him Osun for all they care.

Historical Confirmation

This event was set at Ife, the people of the town may also like what has happened. They were the children of the man with crown, pacifying his grandson, "omo adade owo remo". That could look nice on oriki orile

This little little hints are golden connection. Our fathers are not obliged to divulge excess lest we abuse it. We should make do with just as little.

Another of such example is the ejigbara ileke adornment of Oba Ado in Ifa, it's adopted as omo eyin oloko tii s'ejigbara ileke with the Awori. This are the golden minuscules of Yoruba tradition that should be worth our perusal.

I believe we learn something new today as always.

macof:


Festivals, Rituals and rites of ife corroborate the oral tradition from the Obadio and Isoro in general
I don't expect you to know that because you have no traditional background or contact but those who do have made their publications

Those who have knowledge and contact of Ife traditions have examined the source itself and we now know that oduduwa was indeed a local Yoruba man not a foreigner you Abrahamics so desperately want to be

If you want to challenge this, you can go to Ife yourself

Imagine a person who wants to be a foreigner so bad calling me a foreigner
Go and bring your elders, all of them in your family I am more Yoruba than them
.

macof:


LOL. Your command of yoruba language is poor for someone who calls me a non Yoruba and claims to be an expert Yoruba language decoder or cripted programmer or how do you call it again?

Ọlọfin is a dialectical version of Alaafin that stuck due to popularity.
In central and eastern Yoruba dialects it is Ọfin (Palace).
Not "one who twists the rules" ..

There is no Ewọ (taboo) in Atẹwọrọ
Atẹwọnrọ/Atẹwọrọ - Atẹ̀ (like A tẹ̀lé = to follow) , ẹwọn (chain), rọ (descend)
So it means to descend through a chain

You should really stop, it's disgraceful what you do

It takes you to challenge the authority and powerful people yourself at the end. Never do for your enemy what he'll do to himself. You should really want me to stop so that your cover up can continue.

Ajunilo o le juni nu sibi to ba fe.
You don't know what you don't know.

Did you ever sample this simple little time tested wisdom when it's politely requested of you? But you know it. You hide it from the public glare of what you know.

It's a proof your kind could not be trusted to tell a simple but vital truth naturally and conveniently at all times. You can stoop low as far as quoting from wiki but left this wisdom out, why? Because it contradicts your claim right there at the source.

"He who is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much."

Luke 16:10.

OmoOlofin:


Did he really NOT KNOW what Ọlọfin and Atẹwọnrọ mean?

I'm shocked (irony!)

Macof, your grasp of the Yoruba language is astoundingly firm. I am beyond pleased.

To add my voice to this for obvious reasons:

"Olu-Afin" = "Alaafin" = "Ọlọfin" = Alaọfin = "The Principal One of the Palace".

The NorthEastern Okun-Yoruba regions use the version Alaọfin.

The Aworis of Lagos use the version Ọlọfin.


It is disgraceful how people who obviously should still be learning how to apply diacritics to Yoruba vowels seem to be self-deluded into thinking of themselves as scholars of Yoruba history and language.

Macof, I think you are expecting too much from those who can't even tell the difference between the letters "O" and "Ọ".

I challenge these self-deluding "scholars" to tell the difference between the following Yoruba words:

(1.) Okó

(2.) Ọkọ́

(3.) Oko

(4.) Ọkọ̀

(5.) Ọkọ

(6.) Ọ̀kọ̀

(7.) Òkò

(8.) Ó ko

(9.) Ó kò

(10) Ó kò ó

1. Male genital

2. Hoe

3. Farm

4. Vehicle

5. Husband

6. Javelin

7. Stone when thrown

8. He clears or pack (all)

9. It matches up

10. He met him.

What is the meaning of this saying, "oko irese omo agbonyun"

What's the meaning of the word iroko?

11. Òko
12. Okóò
13. Ókó
14. Òkò

macof:


LOL. Your command of yoruba language is poor for someone who calls me a non Yoruba and claims to be an expert Yoruba language decoder or cripted programmer or how do you call it again?

Ọlọfin is a dialectical version of Alaafin that stuck due to popularity.
In central and eastern Yoruba dialects it is Ọfin (Palace).
Not "one who twists the rules" ..

There is no Ewọ (taboo) in Atẹwọrọ
Atẹwọnrọ/Atẹwọrọ - Atẹ̀ (like A tẹ̀lé = to follow) , ẹwọn (chain), rọ (descend)
So it means to descend through a chain

You should really stop, it's disgraceful what you do

Rhetoric is what you posted up there. So as simple as Abc, ọ ni ọfi, Ọni-ọfin, O ni ọfin, Àni ofin, by extension, —Ọlọ-ọfin is older than Ala-Afin.

And the meaning is beyond ‘Palace', which you and TA012, did limit it to mean because Yoruba word is not as simple as it seems to translate without consodering the purpose it serves. This word convey deeper meaning in this regard because, a ‘Palace' is the official residence of a sovereign, archbishop, etc.This can be translated as Ule Oba, Ile Oba, Ale Oba, ( House of a king). Interestingly, the meaning of ọni-ọfin is ‘Court owner', Fort owner, and not just residence of a King.

ọfin is a fort, Court and not just palace.In the same vein, your likes translated Oru as heaven where Oduduwa( Dawaodu) descended from.


2.macof says, Atẹwọnrọ/Atẹwọrọ - ‘Atẹ̀ (like A tẹ̀lé = to follow) , ẹwọn (chain), rọ (descend),
So it means to descend through a chain' .

Examining the above as illustrated below:

Atẹ̀ (like A tẹ̀lé = to follow) ×

ẹwọn (chain)√

rọ (descend)×


The above meaning is false not true, even if you try to sneak the meaning based on the information circulating over the purported you translation. . Contrary to you he meaning of Atẹwọnrọ/Atẹwọrọ is not the same as ‘Atẹlewọnrọ or Atẹlewọrọ' .

And your illegal translation,is false which does not mean to descend with Chain, , because in Yoruba's culture,chain or Iron is associated with ‘Ogun'.So stop using political translation to suit yourself.

Intereatingly,I have once tried to interpret this in the past, which I didn't get accurately as you have placed your view on Palace . As ófin .Èwon or sheke or shekesheke, is quite correct to mean (chains) but in this regard , it means :



Atẹ̀ : They/one that bend, ( manufacturer of );
A—tẹ̀ : ‘A' is a pronoun for both singular or plural in this regard

ẹwọn: is the same as , Sheke, Shekesheke (chain)√

rọ : create, mould

Simply mean:
They/one that are/is manufacturer(s)of Iron ore. This is encoded in Ogun, as an Iron ore manufacturer. Plainly, Yoruba language is a continuum and not static. For instance, In some places, Ooni ile is used, while some use Alaale. Does this not mean the same ? So, understanding the root word and possible English translation is important. Abeg make una no dey lie lie ooooo


Question: If you are so sure of your translation, then Did Odudua descended alone from somewhere or Ship as some of you put it in the past?