XxSabrinaxX:
This is my first thread on NL. I've noticed how passionate people on these religion forums are when matters like these are brought. So i just felt like i should try my hand at debating on NL.

Hell is a horrible idea. If God truly thinks that our “freewill” based on a limited time on earth means most of us have to live in a “hell” forever, then
yes, he’s evil, and terribly insane. However, i also want to add that if hell actually exists, then the cold truth is that ultimately, most of the human race is going there. Some Christians like to downplay this. It’s an undeniable fact if we applied Christian theology, there's really no debate.
This not only makes God evil, but portrays Satan as a smarter, more efficient presence amongst man, resulting in Satan winning his purpose over Jesus.
Jesus came to earth to save mankind. Judging by the kind of lives we live, i think its safe to say that God has been highly incompetent in making man see the truth.

God didn't create hell. Genesis made us realise God created heaven and earth, not hell.

Hell came to be due to God's nature. How?

The scripture made us realise both heaven and earth would vanish away on the last day and there would be new earth/heaven which is the new Jerusalem where God would be the only light shining over it and there would no darkness nor night. This tells us God's nature is light.

As such, whoever is a sinner doesn't have this God's nature and is completely filled with darkness. Hence, if God is to be the light of this new Jerusalem, a dark soul would be far away from such light like the rule of nature dictates and since there's no more earth, including the earth surface that covers the ''magma'' below. This magma is the fiery volcanoe beneath the earth surface and if the earth surface vanishes away, the deep magma sunken below would be exposed and this is the hellfire the scripture talked about.

Hence, a dark soul would move far away from where the light of God reaches and as such, it would be sunken deep into total darkness and the Magma.

As you can see, God didn't create hell, it just happened due to God's nature.

^^
There is no free will with Yaweh!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaJgLBoB_Pw

HellVictorinho:

Who/What is God?

God is the creator of the universe. He has no beginning and has no end. He is holy and just. He is a faithful God. He is loving and caring. He loves you and me. He wants the best for you. He is offering you the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. Please, open the door of your heart and let him in. He will fill you with peace and love that money cannot bye.

TruthinAction:


God is the creator of the universe. He has no beginning and has no end. He is holy and just. He is a faithful God. He is loving and caring. He loves you and me. He wants the best for you. He is offering you the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. Please, open the door of your heart and let him in. He will fill you with peace and love that money cannot bye.

I've heard that before.

XxSabrinaxX:


I don't serve any 'god'. Am an atheist and yes am referring to the Abrahamaic God.

My friend, you being an atheist has positioned your life on the highway of total destruction in hell fire. You have been scammed by satan to have believed that God Almighty does not exist.

However, there is a way of escape for you and that is JESUS CHRIST, the saviour of the world. Surrender the totality of your life to him right away and you shall be spared of the impending judgement of God upon your life.

God bless you.

XxSabrinaxX:


And good riddance to you too. The number of brainwashed clowns in this thread is enough without you boosting it with ur gross irrationality.

what do you know about rationality? How does rationality disproves God? Present scientifical proof that God does not exist? If you can't prove it, how do you know science has destroyed belief in God? Let us start from here

solite3:
what do you know about rationality? How does rationality disproves God? Present scientifical proof that God does not exist? If you can't prove it, how do you know science has destroyed belief in God? Let us start from here

Wetin ur God gain?

HellVictorinho:

I've heard that before.

Then go a step further by receiving him. You will be the one preaching to others thereafter. It's real. It's an experience you will never forget.

TruthinAction:


Then go a step further by receiving him. You will be the one preaching to others thereafter. It's real. It's an experience you will never forget.

I've gone through 'receiving' him before.

solite3:
what do you know about rationality? How does rationality disproves God? Present scientifical proof that God does not exist? If you can't prove it, how do you know science has destroyed belief in God? Let us start from here

If I say I own a million dollars, would the onus be on me or you to provide proof?

P.S, this is a simple yes or no question.

XxSabrinaxX:
This is my first thread on NL. I've noticed how passionate people on these religion forums are when matters like these are brought. So i just felt like i should try my hand at debating on NL.

Hell is a horrible idea. If God truly thinks that our “freewill” based on a limited time on earth means most of us have to live in a “hell” forever, then
yes, he’s evil, and terribly insane. However, i also want to add that if hell actually exists, then the cold truth is that ultimately, most of the human race is going there. Some Christians like to downplay this. It’s an undeniable fact if we applied Christian theology, there's really no debate.
This not only makes God evil, but portrays Satan as a smarter, more efficient presence amongst man, resulting in Satan winning his purpose over Jesus.
Jesus came to earth to save mankind. Judging by the kind of lives we live, i think its safe to say that God has been highly incompetent in making man see the truth.

OK...Hell was created for the devil and not for us.

Tru Adam's sin, we became candidate for hell.

But God gave His son that we might be candidate for heaven as well.

Because God is just, He gave us a choice; life n death, heaven or hell... And advises us to choose life (His son) that we might heaven.

God is not evil. God is not incompetent. God is God and he's a just God that gave everyone of us a chance to choose what we want to do with our lives.

U are just a mumu.

XxSabrinaxX:
This is my first thread on NL. I've noticed how passionate people on these religion forums are when matters like these are brought. So i just felt like i should try my hand at debating on NL.

Hell is a horrible idea. If God truly thinks that our “freewill” based on a limited time on earth means most of us have to live in a “hell” forever, then
yes, he’s evil, and terribly insane. However, i also want to add that if hell actually exists, then the cold truth is that ultimately, most of the human race is going there. Some Christians like to downplay this. It’s an undeniable fact if we applied Christian theology, there's really no debate.
This not only makes God evil, but portrays Satan as a smarter, more efficient presence amongst man, resulting in Satan winning his purpose over Jesus.
Jesus came to earth to save mankind. Judging by the kind of lives we live, i think its safe to say that God has been highly incompetent in making man see the truth.

The thread has progressed much already so I may only be repeating arguments someone else has made. If I am, please feel free to refer me to the part of the thread where they have been made and you have responded to them and if I still want to carry on from there, I will. If not, I will leave it be.

To begin with, I really don't see how the one thing leads to the other here. What I mean here is that your argument here seems to me to be a non sequitur. It also contains straw men too.

To demonstrate:

First, Hell exists, according to the Bible, in order to separate out those who do not want to be ruled by God from the Creation over which He rules. Everything you have said in your argument appears to completely ignore that. Or else, would you really be advocating that it is fair to subject people who don't want to be ruled by God to His Rule eternally, that is, without any respite at all?

Second, according to the Bible, every good thing comes from God so that the horror of Hell is only so because God gives nothing good indefinitely to those who want no part of Him. Are you arguing that He should? Why should He? What obliges Him to keep giving His good gifts to those who don't want anything to do with Him?

Third, how would it be loving of God to force people to obey Him? Would it not be more consistent with Love to allow them to choose whether they want to or not? That is what free will is about.

Fourth, when people choose unrelenting enmity and rebellion against God and abuse His Gifts damaging His Precious Creation and attacking those who love Him, is it fair that He should just let such people go on existing forever without any punishment?

Fifth, when people are helplessly sinful and rebellious, how is it God's fault that they are given that they possess a true ability to choose to be otherwise?

Sixth, when God graciously grants a way of escape out of rebellion against Him and the terrifying consequences due to such a thing, why is He to be blamed when the majority refuse to take it when it costs them nothing but simple Faith and Trust in Him?

Your argument ignores all these things. Are you really unaware that that is what the Bible teaches? Or do you not care that that is what you are arguing against? Or do you have some reason to believe that these things are not true?

XxSabrinaxX:
This is my first thread on NL. I've noticed how passionate people on these religion forums are when matters like these are brought. So i just felt like i should try my hand at debating on NL.

Hell is a horrible idea. If God truly thinks that our “freewill” based on a limited time on earth means most of us have to live in a “hell” forever, then
yes, he’s evil, and terribly insane. However, i also want to add that if hell actually exists, then the cold truth is that ultimately, most of the human race is going there. Some Christians like to downplay this. It’s an undeniable fact if we applied Christian theology, there's really no debate.
This not only makes God evil, but portrays Satan as a smarter, more efficient presence amongst man, resulting in Satan winning his purpose over Jesus.
Jesus came to earth to save mankind. Judging by the kind of lives we live, i think its safe to say that God has been highly incompetent in making man see the truth.

Look at it this way. First things first, God did not create hell. Satan did!
He was the first specie to be sent there after messing up in heaven.

SO therefore, If Lucifer wasnt arrogant, then there would be no hell or evil in this world.

This was why later on in the new testament, Jesus came to this world to cleanse of all of our previous sins

while creating a new measure to make sure that Humans have a choice. A choice to choose life or death.


God has designed everything so well to the extent that there are fail safe measures.

This is where freewill comes in. You get to choose.

The information is out there. Follow this route, you go to heaven, do the opposite, hell it is.

God knowing fully well that humans arent perfect as a result of evil, created contingency measures,

If you fall or sin, you still have the choice to repent from your sins...

God is not evil, period.

HellVictorinho:

I've gone through 'receiving' him before.

May be you were not properly counseled on how to grow in your new found faith. A young believer is like a tender plant. Whether the plants grow to maturity and survive the harsh weather depends on the gardener who looks after the plant. The young convert also has a personal responsibility to walk in the light of God's word. So, whatever happens that truncated your walk with God, you can rededicate your life to God. It's the best way to live your life and secure your eternal destiny.

The world has so much fun to offer but it's at the expense of your soul. The suffering in hell is not worth the pleasure this world has to offer. The Spirit of God is drawing you back to God now. The choice is yours.

festwiz:
If I say I own a million dollars, would the onus be on me or you to provide proof?

P.S, this is a simple yes or no question.

she said science has disproved the existence of God. Let her bring the evidence let us see. Atheist has this character of shifting goal post.

If you say you have a million dollars and I disagree the onus is on me to show you while I disagreed.

It is the mind of the devilish Romans and Greeks who formulated the story of jesus that is evil...

TruthinAction:


May be you were not properly counseled on how to grow in your new found faith. A young believer is like a tender plant. Whether the plants grow to maturity and survive the harsh weather depends on the gardener who looks after the plant. The young convert also has a personal responsibility to walk in the light of God's word. So, whatever happens that truncated your walk with God, you can rededicate your life to God. It's the best way to live your life and secure your eternal destiny.

The world has so much fun to offer but it's at the expense of your soul. The suffering in hell is not worth the pleasure this world has to offer. The Spirit of God is drawing you back to God now. The choice is yours.

Which of the Christian Gods are you talking about?

solite3:
she said science has disproved the existence of God. Let her bring the evidence let us see. Atheist has this character of shifting goal post.

If you say you have a million dollars and I disagree the onus is on me to show you while I disagreed.

Atheists only have one fault here, which is debating with people that are known to curse and abuse before answering questions.
These people call it wisdom but I know it's misfortune.
And,unlike atheists I also know that the 'Actuality of Things is the Ultimate Crap'.
Humans are bound to end up like this.

solite3:
she said science has disproved the existence of God. Let her bring the evidence let us see. Atheist has this character of shifting goal post.

If you say you have a million dollars and I disagree the onus is on me to show you while I disagreed.

https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/reasons-humanists-reject-bible/

Science and the Laws of Nature

As a result of human observation and experience, a fundamental principle of science is that the laws of nature do not change, cannot be violated, and have acted uniformly over time. According to paleontologist Stephen J. Gould, this uniformity or constancy of natural laws is the “methodological assumption” making science practicable.[15]

Indeed, without the assumption that the physical world operates according to unchanging natural laws, there would be no use studying the world, conducting experiments, or otherwise learning from experience.

In a world not operating under unvarying natural laws, those acts would be useless because knowledge of past events would not provide guidance about what will happen in similar situations in the future. There would always be the possibility of supernatural forces intervening to alter outcomes from what would otherwise be expected to occur based on past experience.

Overwhelming evidence shows that physical events occur according to immutable natural laws. And an increasing knowledge of those laws enhances humankind’s ability to predict future events and control human destiny.

The Bible and Supernatural Events

By claiming that supernatural beings intervene in the world, the Bible opposes the scientific principle of natural laws operating uniformly and unvaryingly. As a result, the Bible discourages a scientific approach to problems.

The Bible has stories about a talking snake (Genesis 3:4-5); a tree bearing fruit which, when eaten, gives knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17; 3:5-7); another tree whose fruit bestows immortality (Genesis 3:22); a voice coming from a burning bush (Exodus 3:4); a talking donkey (Numbers 22:28); rods turning into serpents (Exodus 7:10-12); water changing into blood (Exodus 7:19-22); water coming from a rock (Numbers 20:11); a dead man reviving when his corpse touched the bones of a prophet (II Kings 13:21); and other people rising from the dead (e.g., I Kings 17:21-22; II Kings 4:32-35; Acts 9:37-40).

There are also accounts of the sun standing still (Joshua 10:13); the parting of a sea (Exodus 14:21-22); iron floating (II Kings 6:5-6); the sun’s shadow going back ten degrees (II Kings 20:9-11); a witch bringing the ghost of Samuel back from the dead (I Samuel 28:3-15); disembodied fingers writing on a wall (Daniel 5:5); a man living for three days and nights in the belly of a fish (Jonah 1:17); people walking on water (Matthew 14:26-29); a virgin impregnated by God (Matthew 1:20); a pool of water that can cure ailments of those who dip in it (John 5:2-4); and angels and demons influencing earthly affairs (e.g., Acts 5:19; Luke 11:24-26).

These biblical myths support the belief, which has been held by primitive and illiterate people throughout history, that supernatural beings frequently and arbitrarily intervene in this world.

When examined in the light of experience and reason, the Bible’s claims about supernatural occurrences do not warrant belief. Our experience is that the natural world operates according to principles of regularity – which are never violated. We also know from experience that many people are often mistaken or dishonest. Thus, it’s far more likely the Bible writers either erred or lied than the laws of nature were violated.

Harms of the Supernatural Outlook

Because of believing that supernatural beings control the world, people have often misdirected their energies in attempting to solve problems. Instead of studying the world to discover scientific solutions to problems, they performed religious activities in an effort to obtain the assistance of benevolent supernatural beings or thwart the influence of malicious ones.

This misdirection of energies is seen, for instance, in the history of the attempts to prevent the outbreak and spread of diseases in Europe. The historian Andrew White relates that, during many centuries in the Middle Ages, the filthiness of European cities repeatedly caused great plagues that sent multitudes to their graves.[16]

Based on biblical teachings, Christian theologians during those centuries thought the plagues were caused by the anger of God or the malevolence of Satan.[17] The Bible gave them ample support for their belief. It contains numerous instances of God punishing people by means of pestilence (e.g., Exodus 32:35; Numbers 16:44-49; Jeremiah 21:6). And in describing Jesus’ healing miracles, the New Testament attributes the following afflictions to demons: blindness (Matthew 12:22); muteness (Matthew 9:32-33); lameness (Luke 13:11,16); epilepsy (Matthew 17:14-18); and insanity (Mark 5:1-13).

Those teachings led the early church leaders to promote the idea that demonic activity is the primary cause of disease. For example, St. Augustine, whose views strongly influenced Western thought for over a thousand years, said in the fourth century: “All diseases of Christians are to be ascribed to these demons. . . .”[18]

With the coming of the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century, there was little change in the Christian attitude toward the causes of disease. Martin Luther, the founder of Protestantism, repeatedly attributed his own illnesses to “devils’ spells.” He also stated: “Satan produces all the maladies which afflict mankind, for he is the prince of death.”[19]

As a result of believing in supernatural causes of disease, theologians taught that plagues could be averted or stopped by seeking supernatural assistance. And the way to obtain God’s help, they thought, was to perform religious acts. These included repenting from sin;[20] providing gifts to churches, monasteries, and shrines;[21] participating in religious processions;[22] attending church services (which often only increased the spread of disease);[23] and killing Jews and witches (since it was thought Satan used them as his agents in causing illness).[24] Religious leaders largely ignored the possibility of physical causes and cures of diseases.[25]

Science Bests Supernaturalism

White states that despite all the prayers, rituals, and other religious activities performed throughout the centuries, the frequency and severity of plagues did not diminish until scientific hygiene made its appearance. In regard to the hygienic improvements instituted during the second half of the nineteenth century, White explains: “[T]he sanitary authorities have in half a century done far more to reduce the rate of disease and death than has been done in fifteen hundred years by all the fetiches which theological reasoning could devise or ecclesiastical power enforce.”[26]

The superior results of using science instead of religion can be seen in many other fields. Humanists therefore accept the scientific view that this world operates under unvarying natural laws that cannot be suspended by religious rituals or other means.

And Humanists esteem highly those who study this world and provide a better understanding of it. Unlike the theologians who focus on influencing supposed supernatural powers, persons using a scientific outlook have enabled great progress to be made in reducing misery and increasing happiness.

Incorrect Ideas About the Structure of the Physical World

Humanists also repudiate the Bible because of its mistaken ideas about the structure of the physical world. As is the case with the Bible’s statements opposing the laws of nature, the book’s views on this subject are similar to beliefs held by primitive and illiterate people throughout history.

Stationary Earth as the Center of the Universe

An erroneous Bible teaching caused Christian theologians to oppose Galileo’s proof that the earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the sun. In the sixteenth century, Copernicus proposed this theory about the double motion of the earth. In the following century, Galileo’s telescope proved that Copernicus had been right.

To oppose the Copernican doctrine and show that the earth remains stationary while the sun moves around it, the Catholic Church pointed to the tenth chapter of the book of Joshua.[27] There we are told that Joshua, in order to have a longer period of daylight in which to carry out the Lord’s command to slaughter the Amorites, ordered the sun to stand still – not the earth.

Other passages demonstrating that the earth remains stationary include Psalm 93:1 (“The world is [e]stablished, that it cannot be moved.”); I Chronicles 16:30 (“[T]he world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.”); and Psalm 104:5 (The Lord “laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.”).

Because of Galileo’s support for the Copernican doctrine, the Inquisition threatened him with torture, forced him to recant, and subjected him to imprisonment.[28] Additionally, for nearly 200 years the Catholic Church’s Index of Forbidden Books condemned all writings that affirmed the double motion of the earth.[29]

Protestants weren’t much better. For generations the major branches of Protestantism – Lutheran, Calvinist, and Anglican – denounced the Copernican doctrine as contrary to scripture.[30]

A Flat Earth Resting on Pillars

The Bible supports the primitive notion of a flat earth. In the sixth century, a Christian monk named Cosmas wrote a book, titled Topographia Christiana, describing the structure of the physical world. Basing his views on the Bible, Cosmas said the earth is flat and surrounded by four seas.[31]

The prophecy at Revelation 1:7 was a basis for his conclusion. It states that when Christ returns, “every eye shall see him.” Cosmas reasoned that if the earth were round, people on the other side would not see Christ’s second coming.[32]

Further support for the idea of a flat earth is contained in the verses mentioning the “four corners of the earth” (e.g., Isaiah 11:12; Revelation 7:1) and the “ends of the earth” (e.g., Jeremiah 16:19; Acts 13:47).

Because of such Bible teachings, most of the early church fathers thought the earth is flat.[33] In fact, the view of the world contained in Cosmas’ book was accepted for several centuries as orthodox Christian doctrine.[34] Even in the fifteenth century, when Christopher Columbus proposed to sail west from Spain to reach the East Indies, the biblical notion of a flat earth was a major source of opposition to him.[35]

As for the question of what holds the flat earth in place, the Bible indicates the answer is “pillars.” The pillars of the earth are mentioned in several verses in the Old Testament (I Samuel 2:8; Psalm 75:3; Job 9:6). These verses reflect the belief of the ancient Hebrews that the earth rests upon pillars.[36]

Sky a Solid Dome Containing Windows

The Bible promotes the idea that the sky is a solid dome covering the earth. In the creation account given in the first chapter of Genesis, verse 17 says the Lord set the sun and moon “in the firmament” to provide light for the earth. The Hebrew word translated as firmament is raqia, which means “hammered metal.”[37]

More support for the notion of a domed earth is found at Job 37:18 (where the sky is described as like a “molten lookingglass”); Isaiah 40:22 (God “stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in”); and Revelation 6:14 (“And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together.”).

This concept of the sky was common in the ancient Near East and taken for granted by the Bible writers.[38] Based on the Bible, most of the early church fathers accepted the notion of the firmament.[39] The same position was supported by Cosmas, and thus was part of orthodox Christian doctrine for several centuries.[40]

Orthodox doctrine also contained the related idea that the firmament has windows – which are opened by angels when God wants to send rain upon the earth. Cosmas believed that when the windows are opened, some of the waters contained above the firmament (which are mentioned at Genesis 1:17) fall to the earth. Cosmas’ basis for this belief was the statement, at Genesis 7:11-12, that at the time of the Noachian flood the “windows of heaven were opened” and the rain fell.[41]

Supernatural Signs in the Heavens

Bible stories led the Christian world to believe – for centuries – that God sends humankind signs in the heavens.

Christians thought comets warn of divine anger and imminent punishment;[42] stars and meteors portend beneficial events such as the birth of heroes and great men;[43] eclipses signify divine distress in response to events on earth;[44] and storms and other destructive weather result from the anger of God or the malice of Satan.[45]

Additional Errors About the Physical World

The Bible has verses mentioning dragons (Jeremiah 51:34), unicorns (Isaiah 34:7), and cockatrices (Isaiah 11:. These passages led many naturalists in the Middle Ages to think such mythical creatures actually exist.[46]

The Bible is also incorrect in saying the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13,19), the hare and rock badger chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and the mustard seed “is the smallest of all seeds” (Matthew 13:32).

Finally, it’s inconsistent with science – and ludicrous – to believe that God confounded the language of humans because he was afraid they would build a tower high enough to reach heaven (Genesis 11:1-9).

Overall Effect of Bible Science

White summarizes the historical results of relying on the Bible for answers about the physical world. It’s not a pretty sight: “[T]here were developed, in every field, theological views of science which have never led to a single truth – which, without exception, have forced mankind away from the truth, and have caused Christendom to stumble for centuries into abysses of error and sorrow.”[47]

In view of the Bible’s numerous mistaken beliefs about the physical world, there’s no reason to think its writers were any more correct about unseen and abstract matters. Being so greatly in error regarding the tangible and observable universe, the Bible cannot be considered a reliable guide for spiritual and ethical issues.

False Prophecies

Prophecies in the Bible further strengthen the Humanist view. Because many of the prophecies turned out to be false, they prove the Bible is not inerrant.

The Bible itself contains a test for determining whether a prophecy was inspired by God. Deuteronomy 18:22 explains: “When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”

Applying this test to the Bible leads to one conclusion: the book contains many statements that were not inspired by God.

Old Testament Prophecies

Genesis 2:17 says the Lord warned Adam and Eve about the fruit contained on the tree of knowledge. He stated: “[I]n the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” According to Genesis chapter 3, however, Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit and didn’t die on that day.

Genesis 35:10 claims that God told Jacob: “[T]hy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name. . . .” But 11 chapters later, the Lord’s own act proved his prediction to be wrong. Genesis 46:2 relates: “God spake unto Israel in the visions of the night, and said, Jacob, Jacob. And he said, Here am I.”

At II Chronicles 1:12, God promised Solomon: “Wisdom and knowledge is granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that have been before thee, neither shall there any after thee have the like.”

As Robert Ingersoll pointed out in the nineteenth century, there were several kings in Solomon’s day who could have thrown away the value of Palestine without missing the amount.[48] And the wealth of Solomon has been exceeded by many later kings and is small by today’s standards.[49]

Isaiah 17:1-2 prophesies that Damascus would cease to be a city, become a heap of ruins, and remain forever desolate. Yet some 27 centuries after the prediction was made, Damascus is one of the oldest cities in the world and is still going strong.

Jeremiah 25:11 predicts the Jews would be captives in Babylon for 70 years, and II Chronicles 36:20-21 views the prophecy as fulfilled. But the Jews were taken into captivity by the Chaldeans when Jerusalem fell in 586 B.C.E. And Cyrus of Persia issued an order in 538 B.C.E. allowing them to return from Babylon to Judah. Thus, the Babylonian captivity lasted about 48 years.[50]

Examples of other unfulfilled Old Testament prophecies include the following: the Jews will occupy the land from the Nile to the Euphrates (Genesis 15:18); they shall never lose their land and shall be disturbed no more (II Samuel 7:10); King David’s throne and kingdom shall be established forever (II Samuel 7:16); no uncircumcised person will ever enter Jerusalem (Isaiah 52:1); and the waters of Egypt will dry up (Isaiah 19:5-7).

New Testament Prophecies

In applying the Bible’s test for identifying false prophets, the conclusion is inescapable that Jesus was one of them. For example, he was wrong in predicting the world would end within the lifetime of his followers.

At Matthew 16:28, Jesus tells his disciples: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” The people who were standing there all died eventually, and they never saw Jesus return to establish a kingdom.

Similarly, Jesus is depicted at Mark 13:24-30 as listing signs that shall accompany the end of the world. These include the sun becoming darkened, the moon not giving any light, the stars of heaven falling, the son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory, and angels gathering the elect. Then Jesus announces: “Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.” His generation passed away long ago without the predicted events occurring.

Jesus also erred in predicting the amount of time he would be in the tomb. At Matthew 12:40 he teaches: “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Mark 15:42-45 shows that Jesus died on a Friday afternoon. But Mark 16:9 and Matthew 28:1 tell us he left the tomb sometime on Saturday night or Sunday morning. Either way, the amount of time was less than three nights.

Another significant false prophecy is at John 14:13-14. Jesus promises: “Whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye ask any thing in my name, I will do it.” Everyone knows there have been millions of instances where Jesus failed to respond to Christians who asked for things in his name. And the graveyards are full of people who prayed to him for health.

As is the case with other incorrect statements in the Bible, false prophecies cast doubt on all biblical claims. If one verse in the Bible is wrong, it’s possible for many verses to be wrong.

Inaccurate Statements About History

The Bible’s false statements about history also bolster the Humanist position. Historians and other scholars have exposed many of the Bible’s claims as historically inaccurate.

History and the Old Testament

Historians have long known that the biblical story of a worldwide flood is a myth. For instance, Andrew White says nineteenth-century Egyptologists found that Egypt had a flourishing civilization long before Noah, and no flood had ever interrupted it.[51]

The book of Exodus claims to contain a historical record of the escape of the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. But historians and archaeologists have been unable to verify any of the events described in the book. No known Egyptian records refer to the biblical Moses, the devastating plagues God supposedly inflicted on the country, the escape of the Hebrew slaves, or the drowning of the Egyptian army.[52] Further, White tells us the records contained on Egyptian monuments show that the pharaoh ruling at the time of the alleged escape of the Jews was certainly not overwhelmed in the Red Sea.[53]

The book of Esther purports to describe how a young Jewish girl named Esther was chosen by the Persian king Xerxes I to be queen after he had divorced Vashti. Although historians know a great deal about Xerxes I, there is no record that he had a Jewish queen named Esther or was married to Vashti.[54]

Additionally, the book of Esther describes the Persian empire as having 127 provinces, but historians maintain there was no such division of the empire.[55] Also contrary to the book of Esther, historians assure us Xerxes did not order Jews in his territories to attack his Persian subjects.[56]

The book of Daniel describes events that supposedly happened during the Babylonian captivity of the Jews. The fifth chapter states that Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian king, was succeeded on the throne by his son Belshazzar. But historians tell us Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar and was never king.[57]

The book of Daniel also says one “Darius the Mede” captured Babylon in the sixth century B.C.E. In contrast, historians know that Cyrus of Persia took Babylon.[58]

History and the New Testament

In the New Testament, the second chapter of Luke asserts that shortly before the birth of Jesus, the emperor Augustus ordered a census throughout the Roman world. Luke claims that every person had to travel to the town of his ancestors for the census to be taken. He identifies the census as the reason for Joseph and Mary traveling from Nazareth to Bethlehem, where Jesus is said to have been born.

In his book Gospel Fictions, Randall Helms says this type of census was never taken in the history of the Roman Empire. He points out it’s ridiculous to think the practical Romans would require millions of people to travel enormous distances – to towns of long-deceased ancestors – merely to sign a tax form.[59] Likewise, in Asimov’s Guide to the Bible, Isaac Asimov affirms that the Romans would certainly arrange no such census.[60]

The third chapter of Luke contains a genealogy tracing Christ’s ancestry back only 76 generations to Adam. According to Genesis chapter 1, Adam was created along with the rest of the universe during the course of one week.

The Bible thus views the human race and the universe as having existed for a relatively short period, probably no more than several thousand years. In fact, for many centuries the orthodox Christian position – to doubt which was to risk damnation – was that the creation took place sometime between four and six thousand years before Christ’s birth.[61]

Historians and scientists give a much longer historical record. They say the universe is between 10 and 20 billion years old,[62] the earth’s age is approximately 4.6 billion years,[63] and humans evolved from ape-like ancestors during the last few million years.[64]

Matthew chapter 2 avers that shortly after the birth of Jesus, King Herod ordered the massacre of all male children two years of age or under in Bethlehem and its vicinity. In the book of Luke, which contains the only other New Testament story of Jesus’ birth, there is no mention of this horribly cruel order. It’s also not recorded in any secular histories from the time – not even by writers who carefully described many far less wicked deeds of Herod.[65] The lack of corroboration means Matthew’s account was fabricated.

Matthew 27:45 alleges that while Jesus was on the cross, there fell over the whole land a darkness lasting from midday until three in the afternoon. Andrew White explains that although Romans such as Seneca and Pliny carefully described much less striking occurrences of the same sort in more remote regions, they failed to note any such darkness occurring even in Judea.[66]

Robert Ingersoll wondered why the first-century Jewish historian Josephus, “the best historian the Hebrews produced, said nothing about the life or death of Christ; nothing about the massacre of the infants by Herod; not one word about the wonderful star that visited the sky at the birth of Christ; nothing about the darkness that fell upon the world for several hours in the midst of day; and failed entirely to mention that hundreds of graves were opened, and that multitudes of Jews rose from the dead, and visited the Holy City?” Ingersoll also asked, “Is it not wonderful that no historian ever mentioned any of these prodigies?”[67]

Ingersoll’s questions are even more forceful when one considers that there still exist at least some of the works of more than 60 historians or chroniclers who lived in the period from 10 C.E. to 100 C.E.[68] Those writers were contemporaries of Jesus, if in fact he ever lived.

Finally, the previously discussed contradictions can be cited as examples of historical inaccuracies. In each instance where the Bible contains a contradiction about an alleged historical event, at least one of the accounts is wrong.

The Bible writers were poor historians, let alone conveyers of messages from an infallible God.

solite3:
she said science has disproved the existence of God. Let her bring the evidence let us see. Atheist has this character of shifting goal post.

If you say you have a million dollars and I disagree the onus is on me to show you while I disagreed.

By the way, this is completely flawed logic. If Mr A claim to have a million dollars, the burden of proof rests on HIM. Mr B, Mr C and every other person can disagree based on the fact that they have not seen this money. Its up to Mr A to prove them wrong.

XxSabrinaxX:


By the way, this is completely flawed logic. If Mr A claim to have a million dollars, the burden of proof rests on HIM. Mr B, Mr C and every other person can disagree based on the fact that they have not seen this money. Its up to Mr A to prove them wrong.

In much the same way, if anybody claims that there is no God, the burden of proof for that claim is on them.

Ihedinobi3:

In much the same way, if anybody claims that there is no God, the burden of proof for that claim is on them.

Ehh..., Atheists generally don't see any logical reasons to believe in the existence of a god. They have nothing to prove. The initial claim comes from the Theists, hence why the burden of proof falls on them. Telling an atheist to prove that god does not exist doesn't exactly make sense. For instance, can you prove that Aliens, Thor, Santa Claus etc don't exist?

XxSabrinaxX:

Ehh..., Atheists generally don't see any logical reasons to believe in the existence of a god. They have nothing to prove. The initial claim comes from the Theists, hence why the burden of proof falls on them. Telling an atheist to prove that god does not exist doesn't exactly make sense. For instance, can you prove that Aliens, Thor, Santa Claus etc don't exist?

Science is a curse,Reality is a bitch and Religion is a crime against humanity.

XxSabrinaxX:

Ehh..., Atheists generally don't see any logical reasons to believe in the existence of a god. They have nothing to prove. The initial claim comes from the Theists, hence why the burden of proof falls on them. Telling an atheist to prove that god does not exist doesn't exactly make sense. For instance, can you prove that Aliens, Thor, Santa Claus etc don't exist?

Science is a curse,Reality is a bitch and Religion is a crime against humanity.

XxSabrinaxX:

Ehh..., Atheists generally don't see any logical reasons to believe in the existence of a god. They have nothing to prove. The initial claim comes from the Theists, hence why the burden of proof falls on them. Telling an atheist to prove that god does not exist doesn't exactly make sense. For instance, can you prove that Aliens, Thor, Santa Claus etc don't exist?

You are essentially admitting that atheism is an intellectually lazy position. You take no responsibility at all for your claims and objections. All your arguments must be made for you by theists.

I don't believe that aliens, Thor and Santa Claus exist. Santa Claus was a fictitious character based on legends surrounding Saint Nicholas. Thor was worshiped as a god by Norsemen much like Amadioha was by the Igbo. Both Thor and Amadioha fail to fit the bill for deity. So they cannot be real. If they are real spirits, however, they certainly are not deity. Aliens are ridiculous. It's hard to find information on the historical developments of such a notion but Area 51 around which much of the alien story revolves was really a top-secret government facility used to develop high-end military technology for snooping on the USSR during the Cold War. The planes it built were what people mistook for UFOs because they flew much higher than any other planes that existed then.

All of this came from a very brief Google Search. They are proof that none of these things exist. That is a small example of how these things are done.

Ihedinobi3:

You are essentially admitting that atheism is an intellectually lazy position. You take no responsibility at all for your claims and objections. All your arguments must be made for you by theists.

One thing it might be helpful to consider is, "what is the starting point for any claim?" I argue that the starting point is to not accept a claim without convincing evidence. This approach allows you to have beliefs that are limited, manageable, and supported to some extent. The other way would be to believe every claim until disproven, but since there are billions of potentially contradictory claims I don't see this as a good way.

From that perspective, the person claiming the existence of something (a new land, cells, atoms, or gods) would have the burden to support that claim. Doesn't matter what the claim is. When Newton claimed certain laws existed, it was on him and other physicists to support those claims! Today we are so comfortable with these ideas they seem self evident, but in his time they were new, radical, and not accepted until the evidence started rolling in.

Since god is a much, much bigger claim, shouldn't the believer have to support it with a lot more and better evidence?

The evidence in favour of atheists has already been presented - since god has never been directly and unquestionably observed, we postulate that god does not exist.

There is no other way to argue that something does not exist than to present the lack of evidence for its existence.

Ihedinobi3:

I don't believe that aliens, Thor and Santa Claus exist. Santa Claus was a fictitious character based on legends surrounding Saint Nicholas. Thor was worshiped as a god by Norsemen much like Amadioha was by the Igbo. Both Thor and Amadioha fail to fit the bill for deity. So they cannot be real. If they are real spirits, however, they certainly are not deity. Aliens are ridiculous. It's hard to find information on the historical developments of such a notion but Area 51 around which much of the alien story revolves was really a top-secret government facility used to develop high-end military technology for snooping on the USSR during the Cold War. The planes it built were what people mistook for UFOs because they flew much higher than any other planes that existed then.

I'm not so sure we can completely rule out the possibility of aliens existing
https://phys.org/news/2017-01-universe-trillion-galaxies.html

Ihedinobi3:

All of this came from a very brief Google Search. They are proof that none of these things exist. That is a small example of how these things are done.

Yeah.... the thing is many atheists who have chosen atheism due to rational thought have relied on evidence most often typified by that of the scientific method. In the scientific method, there is a tool called the null hypothesis which is kinda of like saying that nothing is causing the effect/observation. This is the short version and you can read up more on it if interested. This is then related to the agnostic atheist position as they define it as "I lack belief in gods". This is the definition of the null hypothesis. The simple way to prove them wrong is to prove that any god exists. It does not even have to be yours. It can be any of the thousands postulated. That proves all the atheists wrong. This is also different from the gnostic atheist position of "I believe no gods exist". This one is a claim just as the theists make claims of "I believe god(s) exist".

HellVictorinho:

Which of the Christian Gods are you talking about?

There is only one God and one mediator between God and man, our Lord Jesus Christ.

JasonScoolari:
Calling God evil and incredibly insane? Well, maybe you're referring to the "god" you serve.

Who wants to fight? I am not a fighter abeg.

received what he wan

TruthinAction:


There is only one God and one mediator between God and man, our Lord Jesus Christ.

But some Christians pray through Mary.
Some are against voting.
Some have books that complement the Bible.

XxSabrinaxX:




Not only have you dodged my question mightily, you've gone on to rant about.... nothing honestly

First of all, i'm not saying God should not punish people for sinning. I'm saying he should not punish people IF HE ALREADY KNOWS WHAT COURSE OF ACTION THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE.

A god that is all loving and omnibenevolent won't have planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil if he already knew that man would eat of it and subsequently cause an endless loop of sin through the generations. I've heard some say that it wasn't God that planted that tree, but even that argument fails because God is omnipotent and omnibenevolent and he can simply delete the tree from existence if he knows it will cause his "beloved" creation to be subjected to the eternal consequences of sin. God knows all of this.

I'm asking again, and this is the third time: What is God's excuse?

b:Genesis 2:15-17New International Version 15The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And The Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die...

God did warned them thesame way Christ is warning the Remnants. He that hath an ear to hear let him hear what The Spirit is saying... Abeg I no fit argue. If you think God does not exist, then He does not exist...if you say He exists then He exists. Keep on doing what you think. These were His words to Moses..."Tell Pharaoh that 'I Am' has sent you." Whatever Pharaoh thinks I am, that is Who I am. If Pharaoh thinks I am a destroyer..that is who I am..if he thinks I am a killer...that is who I am, if he thinks I don't exist...then I don't exist..I AM THE LORD...I WILL NEVER CHANGE