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The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers - Religion (4) - Nairaland

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Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 9:46pm On Jun 07
Hello House, this is the testimony of P.G. Vargis (India) I found online at http://lifey.org/inspirational-tithing-stories/

P. G. Vargis (India):

Let me say my tithe story. I became a born again Christian in 1971. Next week, my Pastor asked me to sit with him for my first discipleship class. He told me about the basic things that a believer should do, which included the 5 things I mentioned above plus two more points. When he said about tithing, I knew he was interested in my money. I said in my mind, “Man, you are not going to get it from me. I will give what I can, what I can spare but NOT one tenth of my income. I can’t afford it.”

At that time, I was a soldier in the Indian Army and my pay was not much. More over my wife was expecting our first baby in a few months, in the extreme winter of Kashmir. It will bring many fresh expenses like buying coal to heat the room, clothes for the baby, post-delivery treatment of my wife etc. I could not afford to pay one tenth of my income.

Before my conversion, I was making illegal income like stealing from the army store, taking bribe, which you can call it as ‘gift’ in the Indian language. But now after my new-birth, we decided that we will not have any illegal income or gifts in our house even if we have to live on a shoestring budget.

As I was going home, my Pastor gave me a few old magazines. I love reading and so I read them. Surprisingly there was an article on tithing and giving on each of those 3 magazines. God opened my eyes to see that the pastor was not teaching me to grab my tithe for him or his ministry but for my sake, as an investment for my financial prosperity in the days to come as I walk with Him, as promised by God in the Bible.

Then I realized that I could not afford not to give my tithe if I am really interested in the financial blessings of God. Financial prosperity or self-sufficiency with reasonable prosperity was the plan of God. But to get that promise God put a condition of bringing the Tithe.

No, I was not trying to buy God’s blessings with my tithe but I was very interested to obey God and as I do that, I knew that God will do me a favor, give me back what I paid in larger quantity. I read, “When I gave one basketful to God, God gave me one basketful. And His basket is much bigger.”

My responsibility was to obey God. And it is His pleasure to give what He promised with that commandment or requirement. I decided to pay more as I am a New Testament believer saved by grace and living under grace, according to my ability as per the Bible. 2 Corinthians 9:7 “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver”.

So instead of Rs. 48, I gave 55 Rupees and let me tell you that it was a sacrificial giving. My heart rejoiced that I could be a partner in God’s evangelistic work by giving a part of my income. I was not happy but very happy, though it did hurt me to give that much money.

Next week I was in my office and I asked for a short leave to go and buy ration from the Army store. Another person sitting on the next table told me, “You are going to buy rice and wheat flour? How much rice do you want? I can give you that for just half a rupee per kilo.” Another person on the other table said, “Mr Vargis, how much wheat flour do you want? I can give it to you for 62 paise per kilo.” It was almost three times in the army store.

They told me that Govt. of India is giving wheat flour and rice to the citizens of Jammu and Kashmir at that subsidized rate and they two are working as part time accountants in different ration supply stores and so they could get me rice and wheat flour as much as I wanted.

Another sergeant from the ration supply depot came to my favor saying, ‘There is a special price for officers to buy vegetables. I can give you vegetables at their rate plus best quality coal, all at subsidized rates’.

This was a miracle. I was sitting on that table for the past two years and working with them. These two civilian clerks were my best friends. They never gave me that offer, but after I paid my tithe, God opened their hearts and my expense fell and fell to the bottom.

I was still on a limited budget but I did not lack anything. I was buying gospel of John and Soul Winners New Testament to give to every soldier coming to my office to collect stores. Then our first son Aby was born on 19thJan 1972 when it was snowing in Kashmir.

People came to see the new born. According to the custom of Jammu and Kashmir every visitor thrust some money into the small palm of our son, Rs. 1 or two (paper money). It is the culture of that land so the parents will have some extra money with them at that hour of need. But I decided not to take that money for our need but to donate it to an orphanage as a token of our gratitude for giving us a son after 4 years of marriage.

The miracle did not stop there. Later I was told that I don’t have to go to the supply depot to buy the coal, but it will be delivered in my house at no extra cost. Praise God.

Later I wanted to invite all my Hindu friends to the church on the day of the dedication of our son. I was very concerned about the money I will need to give ‘tea and snacks ‘to all the guests. It will cost over Rs. 200 and I had only Rs. 110. I prayed. Then I met a sergeant of the Army officer’s bakery and he said that he can provide everything. The total bill was 86 rupees. I tell you that it was a great miracle for me. Even now as I type this my cheeks are being washed by my tears. (In North India everyone will ask for a ‘ladoo’ or a chocolate when a boy is born. I decided to invite all my friends for the celebration to the church so they may hear the gospel message too.)

I pay my tithe. Lilly pays her tithe. All my children pay their tithe over and above 10%. We encourage you to pay your tithe – faithfully. As you pay, look at the seeds you are planting in God’s vineyard and expect a harvest. You will get it and your children will have it too.

Let me take a leaf from the life of my father. He was born in 1905 (?) in a poor family. He studied in English medium school. He had his own business even at class 3 or 4, like taking care of a lamb he had bought. That one lamb multiplied year after year. Later he started a saving scheme (chit fund) of Rs. 5 when he was in the high school. This was a large amount during those days.

Somehow he failed in the high school exam because of his attention in his business. So he decided to look for a job.

He heard that there was a vacancy of a Superintendent in a rubber plantation and he applied. When he went to meet Mr Antherper at Adoor for the interview, he knew that he was wasting his time. There were 4 others, 3 high school graduates and one Intermediate graduate which was a very high education on those days. Papa had another problem – he was stuttering person. He used to stammer while speaking in Malayalam and it was almost impossible to speak English. If he was facing strangers, he had to jump to get out of the ‘stammering mode’ and speak.

He stood before Mr. Antherper. He stammered to answer each question starting, ‘what is your name?’ For every sentence he had to jump to come out of the stammering and utter the first word and then he will speak without stopping.

When the interview was over he knew he wasted his time. After the interview, they were all sent to different areas to assess the rubber estate property and give a report, which my Papa thought that he had done well.

When he was returning on his Humber bicycle, which he bought from his ‘saving scheme collection,’ it was getting dark and he was hungry. He had already consumed the food his mother had packed for him. He wished he had a penny to buy a ‘vada,’ but his pocket was empty. He had to cycle over 10 km to his home and there was no proper road during those days. He was tired. He parked his bicycle by the road side and laid down on the grass. He remembered the Bible story his mother taught him and had read in the Bible: Jacob was in the wilderness alone and he prayed to God.

Papa, 18 years old young man at that time, sat there on his knees and prayed like Jacob, “God, I know I cannot get the job. In my own opinion I am the least of them. But God of Jacob, if you will do me a favor and give me this job, I promise you:

= I will walk with you and worship you.
= I will not touch a woman (which was a common practice of rubber estate officers of those days.)
= I will pay my tithe to you.

He is from an eastern orthodox church. During those days, not all families had a Bible. He did not know what it means to walk with God or pay tithe. But he made a covenant.

He went back. His evangelical mother told him about the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and assured him. “God can – now or later, but He will. We will pray.” He waited for his next chance.

After a week, he got a post card with the message: ‘Mr. G. Pappy, I am pleased to inform you that you are selected as the Superintendent of our rubber estate. Please report to this office on or before…. And join the duty. Signed. Mr Antherper’

The LORD God of my grandmother did it for my father.

My Papa kept his word and walked with God. At the age of 76 he got closer to God and became a Bible believing born again Christian. But let me tell you another leaf from his life.

My father was a religious Christian and did not belong to a Bible believing church. But he had faith in God which he inherited from his evangelical church member mother. He always talked about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He read the Bible stories as he had plenty of time after his work. He taught us the Bible stories in the evening daily family prayer. He will walk through the rubber plantation where he worked, sit at a place of his choice and pray beating his chest asking God to bless him.

One day in 1962, he heard that the neighbor was selling his 10 acres of land and going away to another city. He took me to that land when I came on my first holiday after my Army basic training. I was 20 years old and an agnostic, having a mixed faith of Hinduism, black magic, sorcery, hypnotism but very little faith in my father’s Lord Jesus. I was more of a non-Christian than a nominal Christian. I did not go to the church for years. He asked me to give the money I had so he may give advance to a small plot of that land, which is half an acre. That 10 acre land was in the names of several members of a family.

I told him that I did not have much but only just over Rs. 130 as I was indulging in bad habits and spent all the money I got. Papa thought that I must have got at least 1000. He said, “Give me that money. I will take a step of faith. And I will pray.”

At that time my father was broke due to a series of calamities that drained his bank balance.

Standing there, he prayed a long prayer, tears running over his face. “Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph, you are a God who blesses your people. I am your child. I made a covenant with you like Jacob in the wilderness, when I was just 18 years old and since then you have been walking with me. I am at a crossroad. This land is for sale. I would like to buy it. Help me to buy it. I will give the one hundred rupees my son will give me as the advance payment for half an acre. Help me to buy it. Then the next half an acre or one acre. And hold an umbrella over this land so that no one else should come and buy even a portion of this 10 acre. Give me this land.” He prayed very long stretching his hand all over the land in all directions. Then he added: “When you will give me these 10 acres of land, I will pay the tithe to your work.”

And in 3 years’ time he purchased the whole 10 acres of land and more later.

He believed, he prayed and God helped him.

He did not forget his covenant with God. He talked to a pastor who was working among the tribal dailt people and he helped that pastor to buy some land and construct a church there. (I had the privilege to go to that church and preach after my salvation. I heard this story from that pastor first hand as he introduced me to the congregation.)

As you walk with God and pay your tithe, you can expand because expansion is the plan of God.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Nobody: 10:08pm On Jun 07
Dencotext:
Well in Italy its hard to find those that even believe it including my bishop here. These guys are well fed and so are not too aware of our darker struggles to get there.
Since the Christians in Italy are well fed and do not pay tithe, what then do you think is their secrets to success and obtaining blessings from God than those who pay tithes in Nigeria?
Dencotext:
Me on my own keep doing what worked best for me in Nigeria there....tithing! Against all odds I have confounded all their expectations by what I have been sowing.
Are you then insinuating that you are more blessed and well fed than many of them now?
Dencotext:
I am more or less like an object of curiosity, and in my last church a ridicule.
It happened that way because many Christians over there have took time and studied the scriptures themselves by the leading of the Holy Spirit. Their knowledge of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is not hearsay unlike those in Africa.

No need of going deeper because my lovely and dear brother OKCornel has done alot in educating you on this matter.

Go and study the scripture for yourself bro because if you have done so you won't have argued that Abraham never paid tithe out of the war spoils.

OKCornel you try, I dey see your hand work.

Thanks.

God bless.

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Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 10:19pm On Jun 07
Hello House,

That was a testimony of a tither. At one point he was crying. I have cried several times too. I am just too scared to write down all that have happened to me because miracles are inexplicable. But let me try and write down just one, I am already crying now.

I was a dropout of electronic engineering UNN many years ago. In my 3yr I had ulcer and had so many carryover I could not continue. But when I started tithing in 2009, I got an offer to study computer science free online from an American University. I graduated with two degrees...associate and bachelor. And now I am doing my Master degree in Engineering and Computer Science. I kept crying because I really tried to go back to school after I dropout but no financial aid. Now not only that I am doing Master, here in europe there is no carryover too. You cannot fail an exam. If you fail, it is never recorded! You can simply retake the exam untill you pass the way you want. If I get 86% in an exam it is because i chose to accept that pass mark! And exam can also be taken whenever you wish.

I will stop here. The miracles always make me to cry. I may say others later if God willing
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by LifestyleTonite: 10:30pm On Jun 07
OkCornel:


Please use the scriptures to show me where God demanded for money as tithe!

1) Is it today that God will specify how certain things should be done, but man would go ahead to things the way they like?

2) So should the way God required tithing should be done now abandoned for the way a Pharisee does his own?

3) If I am to hold you accountable using the standard of that same Pharisee you referred to Luke 18 v 11-14; DO YOU GIVE A TITHE OF EVERY SINGLE THING YOU POSSESS?

4) Do you have scriptural references where Christians are also required to tithe (let me also add monetary tithe) as opposed to or in addition to freewill giving?

You also have unanswered questions on another thread, and you're popping up here...

https://www.nairaland.com/5221155/four-types-tithes-mentioned-bible/2#78976765


1) God specified how tithing should be done. He did it when Abraham gave tithe of ALL which must have included money. God whom Jesus Christ is also specified how tithing should be done when he spoke the parable about the pharisees whom he didn't condemn for paying tithe of ALL which must have included money.

Same God who spoke of agricultural produces also prior to that period received tithes of ALL things from Abraham. That same God through a parable endorsed paying tithe of ALL things in the new testament.

2) God never said tithing has to be ONLY Agricultural produce. Or can you show us where God said so? No you can't. That's why God didn't condemn the pharisee for paying tithe of ALL, instead he condemned him for something else.

3) Yes, I give tithe of everything I possess. If someone gives me a gift, I tried to see what it's worth and remove ten percent from my pocket to give to God. It is the same as obeying...

Proverbs 3:9
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

4) Christians are not different from people in the Old testament. We are all God's people living by faith. The name Christian was just given to us by observers. Without the name, we would still be God's people like the ones in the old testament. As long as we are God's people, we have to keep obeying his word unless he tells us to do otherwise. Now show me where God said we should stop tithing. May you be damned if you can't find such verse.

Remember the post that led to our argument. As long as God has not changed his word, it means whatever he said in the past remains eternal.

I'm glad you couldn't attack the points I raised about Jesus not condemning the Pharisee for paying tithes of all. You didn't even address my post. All you did was come up with fresh argument like Satan the accuser. That's a sign of defeat.

Goodnight

1 Like

Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 10:41pm On Jun 07
Agrogbeide:
Since the Christians in Italy are well fed and do not pay tithe, what then do you think is their secrets to success and obtaining blessings from God than those who pay tithes in Nigeria? Are you then insinuating that you are more blessed and well fed than many of them now? It happened that way because many Christians over there have took time and studied the scriptures themselves by the leading of the Holy Spirit. Their knowledge of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is not hearsay unlike those in Africa.

No need of going deeper because my lovely and dear brother OKCornel has done alot in educating you on this matter.

Go and study the scripture for yourself bro because if you have done so you won't have argued that Abraham never paid tithe out of the war spoils.

OKCornel you try, I dey see your hand work.

Thanks.

God bless.
Unlike you guys who like talking without doing, I do not over spiritualized the bible or conceptualized it. Giving is not a concept that you categorize it into many forms as done in the old testament. God's Word contains laws that hold everything in the universe. It works for both believers, unbelievers, satanic agents, and even for the devils and his demons. You make spiritual the concept of giving, but if you give for any reason, whether not because it has to do with the Church, you will be blessed somehow. Everything exist by the WORD, and that explain why some people can get rich, even without eventually making it to heaven.

The Europeans pay tax to their government faithfully and that is why things work here. Those who cannot work or disadvantaged get paid by the government. The Church that I am a ridicule by that bishop, is not because he has caught some secrets as you claimed from the bible... his son is an disabled and the government is paying the father the welfare. The father also is collecting money on welfare for not working...I won't go into details what it is for...I am not interested in prying into other people's life.

I did not come from that background where we get things free. I came from Africa where things were hard for me... no mother, no father, all died early. If they feel bad that an African boy has broken their expectation by the amount he gives, then God is my helper. I have no one to help me. On the contrary, I am doing very fine in all departments, before you find anything funny, probably I am doing many times better than you.

Please know that God is going to judge us for every careless words we say.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 11:21pm On Jun 07
alBHAGDADI:


I'm so surprised at those who think we tithe so that we can be on Forbes list instead of God's list.

God bless you brother, only time will tell when we pack all the rewards in heaven! Let them keep laughing and jesting at giving in the name of God. Time will come for crying and lamentation during the judgment sit of Christ.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 11:23pm On Jun 07
alBHAGDADI:


This particular portion is what I always echo on this forum and no man born of a woman who claims to be against tithing has been able to counter it.
Yes these antitithers think God is like a man that changes every now and then over the ages. Thank you again.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 11:26pm On Jun 07
CodeTemplar:
Tithe has always been scriptural but those envious of the growth the church is seeing have decided it will be best to drain the church of its finance. It will not succeed.
Thanks man, we are giving to God let them call it any name... there is no shame using the word TITHE when we give our 10%.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 11:32pm On Jun 07
MightySparrow:
You see am so, bro? it only in christianity you will see christians publicly criticizing their own doctrines even their God.
That is true brother, it is only in Christianity that giving strickly to God is legalistic, ritualistic and a thing of shame. No mind them, God pass devil.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Dencotext: 11:40pm On Jun 07
Dencotext:
Ahahaha this bobo dey fear tithing like say na ojuju...see how e dey call am, "FIXED LEGALISTIC 10 PERCENTAGE"! So we way dey tithe we no be givers bah? Na legalistic dogmatic irrelevant religious ritual creed we just dey observe bah? Make me too speak big grammar here.
It beats my imagination how some Christians belittle God and take Him as foolish mumu. If someone is tithing to God, all sorts of anger and sophisticated grammar is directed at them. Sometimes people becomes tool in the hand of the devil even without realizing it. shocked
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 6:14am On Jun 08
WHY DO YOU LOVE TELLING LIES AND TWISTING THE SCRIPTURES JUST TO SUIT YOUR NARRATIVES?

LifestyleTonite:


1) God specified how tithing should be done. He did it when Abraham gave tithe of ALL which must have included money. God whom Jesus Christ is also specified how tithing should be done when he spoke the parable about the pharisees whom he didn't condemn for paying tithe of ALL which must have included money.


Abraham did not give a tithe of ALL HE POSSESSED. He gave a tithe of warspoils, and this was done once in his entire life. I am very sure Hebrews 7 v 4 is in your Bible!
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Please can you also show us where God instructed Abraham to tithe? Did God also lay out any guidelines on tithing in the times of Abraham?

LifestyleTonite:

Same God who spoke of agricultural produces also prior to that period received tithes of ALL things from Abraham. That same God through a parable endorsed paying tithe of ALL things in the new testament.

Please where did God endorse paying a tithe of everything in the new testament? Or are you mistaking the actions of a zealous self-righteous Pharisee as the standard for God?



LifestyleTonite:

2) God never said tithing has to be ONLY Agricultural produce. Or can you show us where God said so? No you can't. That's why God didn't condemn the pharisee for paying tithe of ALL, instead he condemned him for something else.
You are a filthy liar. I have shown where God gave clear instructions on how tithing should be done in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29, did you see God requesting for money as tithe there? Even in Matthew 23 v 23 you pro-tithers often love to quote, does a tithe of dill, mint and cummin sound like monetary tithing to you?

Open the scriptures and show us where God changed tithing from agro-produce as clearly spelt out in Deuteronomy and Leviticus into money that the church now collects!

LifestyleTonite:

3) Yes, I give tithe of everything I possess. If someone gives me a gift, I tried to see what it's worth and remove ten percent from my pocket to give to God. It is the same as obeying...

This is laughable at best, I can bet if we investigate this further, you will come up short. Is it today we are hearing things like this?

So if someone gifts you an expensive car... lemme just kill this matter here... this claim of yours is between you and the all knowing God, you will give an account of this claim one day...

LifestyleTonite:

Proverbs 3:9
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:
Does this verse now mean TITHE is MONETARY?

LifestyleTonite:

4) Christians are not different from people in the Old testament. We are all God's people living by faith. The name Christian was just given to us by observers. Without the name, we would still be God's people like the ones in the old testament. As long as we are God's people, we have to keep obeying his word unless he tells us to do otherwise. Now show me where God said we should stop tithing. May you be damned if you can't find such verse.

Remember the post that led to our argument. As long as God has not changed his word, it means whatever he said in the past remains eternal.

I'm glad you couldn't attack the points I raised about Jesus not condemning the Pharisee for paying tithes of all. You didn't even address my post. All you did was come up with fresh argument like Satan the accuser. That's a sign of defeat.

Goodnight

Kai, why do you love telling lies? How did I not address your first post on this thread?Why did you think I asked you those questions in response to your first post on this thread?


Since the day God gave clear instructions on how tithing should be done, show me where God changed the basis of tithing from crops and livestock to money!

You are the one claiming I said tithing should stop, whereas the point here is YOU CANNOT TITHE THE WAY GOD HAS CLEARLY SPELT IT OUT PER HIS INSTRUCTIONS IN DEUTERONOMY 14 V 22-29; If you want to tithe, follow God's instruction to the last letter!

If you people are in a hurry to use Abraham as your example in tithing... then bear in mind that;

1) Abraham tithed out of his freewill, not under any duress or fear of a devourer.
2) Abraham tithed out the spoils of war, and not his entire possessions - Hebrews 7 v 4
3) Abraham was already blessed before he tithed.
4) Abraham tithed once in his entire life



Another thing, if you pro-tithers sincerely believes tithing would shield you from the devourer...then I'm sorry to let you know you still believe in the curse of the law...

Can you open the scriptures and give examples of Christians (especially gentile christians) that tithed (either livestock, crops or monetarily)?
You're still dodging this question. Bring examples of christians that tithed from the scriptures...




Another post of mine on this thread will show you the history of monetary tithing in the church. How and when it all started...
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 6:16am On Jun 08
Dencotext:
Yes these antitithers think God is like a man that changes every now and then over the ages. Thank you again.

So if God has not changed... how did His instructions on tithing change from agro-produce to money?

You are contradicting yourself...
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 6:27am On Jun 08
CHURCH HISTORY OF TITHING

A study of church history will show that at some point, probably around the year 600, the churches brought back the teaching of tithing, but only as voluntary giving, and still just on the crops, herds, and flocks, right out of the Old Testament. Since they didn't teach it as a "biblical tithe," they were able to change the rules to make it fit the needs of the church. By the middle of the 13th century, the Church's claim to tithes was extended to include the poultry of the yard and the cattle of the stall, to the catch of fish and the game of the forests. Had tithing in the Old Testament been on everything as some have claimed, there would have been no need to expand the definition.

My research shows that tithing was first taught and collected by churches in the United States during the second half of the 1800s. Had tithing always been required, why was it not until the late 1800s that the churches in the United States started collecting tithes? And even then, the teaching of tithing was not consistent between churches. It wasn't until recent years that churches started teaching that you tithe on your income, or gross income.

My research shows that during the late 1800s some churches taught that men were to tithe a larger amount than women, that no tithing was required for those under the age of 18, and once you reached the age of 65 you no longer were required to tithe. At times tithing was based on the value of property owned. Those who didn't own property didn't tithe. They gave freewill offerings. In one case I found the church council members voted to change tithing to income because it would bring in twice as much money. The problem is, all this was taught as biblical.

In many cases, if not most, today's tithing teacher is merely teaching was he/she was taught. Many who later do their own in-depth research have repented and no longer teach that tithing is required today.

http://tithing101.com/Part1/history.htm


@LifestyleTonite, please I am still waiting for you to bring examples of Christians that gave tithes in the scriptures!

I am also waiting for scriptural references where God also instructed non-Jews to tithe (monetary tithing inclusive)
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 6:37am On Jun 08
When did “tithing” come to mean “giving 10% of your gross income to the Church”?
I cannot find in the New Testament an obligation on Christians to tithe 10% of their income. Instead I read that it is up the individual to decide:

2 Corinthians 9:7
Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Is there a church tradition established by the early church to encourage everyone to tithe 10%? What was the early church's view on tithing?

I know the word "tithe" has "tenth" built into it, and so some Christians assume that every usage of the word "tithe" in Scripture is referring to "giving 10% of your gross income to the church." But I also know that "tithes" in the Old Testament did not refer to this at all.

They only "tithed" on food (livestock and crops); they had money (i.e. "income"wink, but the "tithes" did not apply to that.
The food went to the Levites, Priests, and needy people - none of whom had land of their own by which they could feed themselves.
"Tithes" were not required of everyone - only those who raised livestock or grew crops. For example, carpenters weren't required to tithe, nor were the Priests and needy people.
Clearly these things have application today; I am not challenging the idea of providing for ministers and needy people with cheerfulness and generosity.

My question is: When did the Church begin to understand "tithing" as "giving 10% of your gross income to the Church"? Clearly this is not what it meant in the Old Testament, and I don't see anything in the New Testament to indicate that the term was redefined by Jesus or the Apostles.


The Jewish Historian Alfred Edersheim seems to have done a fair bit of research on this subject. Basically, the subject is far more complex than a simple 10%, and would usually have amounted to more under Old Testament law. In fact, I am not sure I fully understand what Edersheim has explained—but that helps to convey just how complex it really was.

The basic idea of the tithe (i.e 10%) was bound up in the first fruit offerings of the land:


Two of these firstfruit offerings were public and national; viz. the first omer, on the second day of the Passover, and the wave-loaves at Pentecost. The other two kinds of ‘firstfruits’—or Reshith, ‘the first, the beginning’—were offered on the part of each family and of every individual who had possession in Israel, according to the Divine directions in Ex. 22:29; 23:19; 34:26; Numb. 15:20, 21; 18:12, 13; Deut. 18:4; and Deut. 26:2–11, where the ceremonial to be observed in the Sanctuary is also described. Authorities distinguish between the Biccurim (primitiva), or firstfruits offered in their natural state, and the Terumoth (primitae), brought not as raw products, but in a prepared state,—as flour, oil, wine, etc. The distinction is convenient, but not strictly correct, since the Terumoth also included vegetables and garden produce. (The Temple - Its Ministry and Services as they were at the time of Christ, by Alfred Edersheim (1825-1889), chap. 19, p. 379)

However, these first fruits and their offerings were complex in the traditional regulations and were largely based on being actually from the Holy Land:
They must be the produce of the Holy Land itself, in which, according to tradition, were included the ancient territories of Og and Sihon, as well as that part of Syria which David had subjugated. On the other hand, both the tithes and the Terumoth were also obligatory on Jews in Egypt, Babylon, Ammon, and Moab. The Biccurim were only presented in the Temple, and belonged to the priesthood there officiating at the time, while the Terumoth might be given to any priest in any part of the land. The Mishnah holds that, as according to Deut. 8:8 only the following seven were to be regarded as the produce of the Holy Land, from them alone Biccurim were due: viz. wheat, barley, grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives, and dates. If the distance of the offerer from Jerusalem was too great, the figs and grapes might be brought in a dried state. . . .

Of course, neither tithes, nor Biccurim, nor Terumoth, were to be given of what already belonged to the Lord, nor of what was not fairly the property of a person. Thus if only the trees, but not the land in which they grew, belonged to a man, he would not give firstfruits. (The Temple - Its Ministry and Services as they were at the time of Christ, by Alfred Edersheim (1825-1889), chap. 19, p. 379)

In the end, when all requirements were considered, the actual amount to be given was more than just the tithe, and would have been around 25% of the overall revenue of the community from the harvests that God caused to be enjoyed:


To answer the question more specifically by date, as it was first established within Christianity under Catholicism, I refer to a Catholic Encyclopedia that established it around 567 AD:


The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, and early writers speak of it as a divine ordinance and an obligation of conscience. The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the canons of the Council of Maçon in 585. In course of time, we find the payment of tithes made obligatory by ecclesiastical enactments in all the countries of christendom.

By the "Old Law" the text means Mosaic Law. As far as the concept of gross versus net goes, this seems to be a more modern idea by hyper-fundamentalists, and I have not yet found its origin.


https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/10150/when-did-tithing-come-to-mean-giving-10-of-your-gross-income-to-the-church


Not everything in that link was pasted here, lest it would make this post lenghtier than it currently is...

There you have it, the history of tithing in the church started in 567AD by the Catholic church...and not the early church...

But @LifestyleTonite, if you disagree...kindly show us examples where Christians tithed in the scriptures, especially those of non-Jewish roots...
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 6:45am On Jun 08
Agrogbeide:
Since the Christians in Italy are well fed and do not pay tithe, what then do you think is their secrets to success and obtaining blessings from God than those who pay tithes in Nigeria? Are you then insinuating that you are more blessed and well fed than many of them now? It happened that way because many Christians over there have took time and studied the scriptures themselves by the leading of the Holy Spirit. Their knowledge of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is not hearsay unlike those in Africa.

No need of going deeper because my lovely and dear brother OKCornel has done alot in educating you on this matter.

Go and study the scripture for yourself bro because if you have done so you won't have argued that Abraham never paid tithe out of the war spoils.

OKCornel you try, I dey see your hand work.

Thanks.

God bless.

Thanks bro, God bless you.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by LifestyleTonite: 7:52am On Jun 08
OkCornel:
WHY DO YOU LOVE TELLING LIES AND TWISTING THE SCRIPTURES JUST TO SUIT YOUR NARRATIVES?



Abraham did not give a tithe of ALL HE POSSESSED. He gave a tithe of warspoils, and this was done once in his entire life. I am very sure Hebrews 7 v 4 is in your Bible!
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Please can you also show us where God instructed Abraham to tithe? Did God also lay out any guidelines on tithing in the times of Abraham?

Abraham tithed as an acknowledge that God was the reason he and his few men were successful in the battle against those Kings and their soldiers. Abraham knew everything belongs to God, and so he gave back 10%. That was the Bible laying down a standard for Abraham's children to follow cos it's worth emulating. Proverbs 3:9 even supported the act of honoring g God with the first fruit of all our increase. The spoils of war was an increase to Abraham.

You don't seem to know that most of Abraham's actions before the law were a foundation for the law and after the law. You God didn't command Abraham to pay tithe, but the same God accepted the tithe because it was a good gesture and went as far as making it a law such that it amount to to robbery when disobeyed. Your reasoning is simple as saying Abraham building an altar where he worshipped God is wrong and should not be emulated because the Bible didn't show where God instructed him to do so.

Genesis 12:8
And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the Lord, and called upon the name of the Lord.

Your reasoning is poor. And stop emphasising on the spoils of war, cos they were Abraham's property after he fought for then with his life with the help of God. So, he had to acknowledge God as the one behind d his victory. Spoils of war is not bad because Israel took spoils too

Joshua 11:14
And all the spoil of these cities, and the cattle, the children of Israel took for a prey unto themselves; but every man they smote with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, neither left they any to breathe.

Please where did God endorse paying a tithe of everything in the new testament? Or are you mistaking the actions of a zealous self-righteous Pharisee as the standard for God?

Stop being blind. I just showed you how Jesus who is God didn't condemn the same pharisee for paying tithe of all he had just as Abraham did, be it agricultural or not. Jesus only condemned him for something else. Haven't you wondered why Jesus didn't condemn tithing in that second instance he had to put a stop to tithing once and for all? He previously didn't in Mathew 23:23. He didn't condemn tithing on two occasions he spoke of it which shows that the law remains. He also didn't condemn the Pharisee's method of tithing because he knew Abraham also tithed in such method, which is give a tenth of all which includes money, agricultural produce, gold etc. All they possess.


You are a filthy liar. I have shown where God gave clear instructions on how tithing should be done in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29, did you see God requesting for money as tithe there? Even in Matthew 23 v 23 you pro-tithers often love to quote, does a tithe of dill, mint and cummin sound like monetary tithing to you?

What a double-standard fellow you are. Earlier in your post, you condemned a Pharisee for going beyond agricultural produce in paying tithe, a thing Jesus didn't condemn. You say he was overzealous.

But here you are endorsing other Pharisees for paying agricultural produce in the same verse where Jesus who is God enshrined tithing as good. Can you see how you are running confused? grin

Open the scriptures and show us where God changed tithing from agro-produce as clearly spelt out in Deuteronomy and Leviticus into money that the church now collects!

God didn't change tithing of agricultural produce to monetary tithing. Rather, he added agricultural produce to tithing. Before the mention of agricultural produce as tithing, the spoils of war was mentioned as tithing and it could have included money, gold, silver, swords, shields, horses, chariots etc. It was later God now added agricultural produce to tithing. The Pharisee and Jesus understood that tithing wasn't only agricultural produce, that's why the pharisee paid other materials as tithe and he wasn't condemned by Jesus for that. So who are you to condemn tithing of other materials, an act which predates tithes of agricultural produce?

This is laughable at best, I can bet if we investigate this further, you will come up short. Is it today we are hearing things like this?

So if someone gifts you an expensive car... lemme just kill this matter here... this claim of yours is between you and the all knowing God, you will give an account of this claim one day...

Since you know it to be between me and God, why did you bother asking me? You thought your Satan the accuser tactics would find me wanting, right? Epic fail.


Does this verse now mean TITHE is MONETARY?

Yes, because it says the firstfruits of ALL our increasing.

Proverbs 3:9
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:


Kai, why do you love telling lies? How did I not address your first post on this thread?Why did you think I asked you those questions in response to your first post on this thread?

You don't address a post with questions. You address before proceeding to ask your own questions.

Since the day God gave clear instructions on how tithing should be done, show me where God changed the basis of tithing from crops and livestock to money!

Scroll up to see that the Agricultural produce that you keep yapping about was an addition.

You are the one claiming I said tithing should stop, whereas the point here is YOU CANNOT TITHE THE WAY GOD HAS CLEARLY SPELT IT OUT PER HIS INSTRUCTIONS IN DEUTERONOMY 14 V 22-29; If you want to tithe, follow God's instruction to the last letter!

God clearly spelt it out using Abrahams tithe, tithe under the law and the Pharisee's tithe in the new testament. All of these show that tithing goes beyond just agricultural produce. It is the firstfruits of all our increase.

If you people are in a hurry to use Abraham as your example in tithing... then bear in mind that;

1) Abraham tithed out of his freewill, not under any duress or fear of a devourer.
2) Abraham tithed out the spoils of war, and not his entire possessions - Hebrews 7 v 4
3) Abraham was already blessed before he tithed.
4) Abraham tithed once in his entire life

1) Abraham tithed because he knew the danger of not doing so. He clearly knew that the battle he won against those Kings with just 318 servants of his wasn't all his doing. Imagine defeating Kings who had armed soldiers and forces with just 318 men.

When he met the one behind the victory, he had to acknowledge him by paying tithe. It was a wise thing to do, because failure to do so mean when next he finds himself in similar situation, there won't be a Spiritual power to fight for him, and so those who come against him as devourer will succeed against him. It is that mindset and principle we have imbibed today.

2) The spoils of war was an increase, and so he tithed out of it which matches the scripture Proverbs 3:9

3) And the blessing was maintained and even increased after he did

4) You shouldn't expect the Bible to be just about the amount of times Abraham tithed. It's the same thing as saying Abraham never passed out faeces because the Bible never recorded such.

[
color=#990000]Another thing, if you pro-tithers sincerely believes tithing would shield you from the devourer...then I'm sorry to let you know you still believe in the curse of the law...[/color]

Sorry fella, the curse of the law is when you are depending on it for salvation instead of Jesus. You will never attain salvation because if you fail just one law despite passing the rest, you become guilty of even the ones you passed. That's the curse, and to be free from it, you have to depend on Jesus for salvation.

So it's either you depend on the law for salvation or you depend on Jesus

Can you open the scriptures and give examples of Christians (especially gentile christians) that tithed (either livestock, crops or monetarily)?
You're still dodging this question. Bring examples of christians that tithed from the scriptures...

No, the onus is on you to show us where God told Christians not to tithe. Just cos it is not recorded that they tithed doesn't mean God's law was abolished. Not every act of obeying God's law was recorded.



Another post of mine on this thread will show you the history of monetary tithing in the church. How and when it all started...
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Nobody: 9:42am On Jun 08
LifestyleTonite:
No, the onus is on you to show us where God told Christians not to tithe. Just cos it is not recorded that they tithed doesn't mean God's law was abolished. Not every act of obeying God's law was recorded.

KJV:Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20
KJV:But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21
KJV:For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22
KJV:Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23
KJV:And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24
KJV:Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25
KJV:It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
KJV:Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27
KJV:We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28
KJV:For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29
KJV:That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30
KJV:So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31
KJV:Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Acts 15:19-31

1. If you insist on the law of tithe without doing it according to how it is stated in the law then what you are doing is mere show.

2. If you must obey the law of tithe you must observe preceeding laws before tithe and succeeding laws after tithe.

3. If you used Abraham as a case study of tithing you must give bread and wine if you collect tithe as a priest or collect bread and wine from the priest you pay tithe to.

4. If you used the teaching of Christ in Matthew 23:23 to emphasize on tithing then you must always tithe mint, anise and cummin and you must do it according to the law.

NB: Don't rush here to argue my friend, sit down and peruse through what you just read. Meanwhile I don't waste my phone ink over arguments.

Thanks.

God bless.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by hoopLA: 11:03am On Jun 08
Dencotext:
Please what is that word BABA doing there? I see it was not you anyway.
This is why nobody takes you "christians" seriously.
You made an allegation against someone.
You couldnt even apologize for a wrong accusation.
Yet you expect people to listen to all the jargon you are posting but you cant even show simple courtesy as a "Christian".
Typical of your ilk in here.

I keep saying this. When you lot are ready to be serious, the whole world will know.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by LifestyleTonite: 11:24am On Jun 08
Agrogbeide:


KJV:Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20
KJV:But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21
KJV:For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22
KJV:Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23
KJV:And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24
KJV:Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25
KJV:It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
KJV:Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27
KJV:We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28
KJV:For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29
KJV:That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30
KJV:So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31
KJV:Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Acts 15:19-31

1. If you insist on the law of tithe without doing it according to how it is stated in the law then what you are doing is mere show.

2. If you must obey the law of tithe you must observe preceeding laws before tithe and succeeding laws after tithe.

3. If you used Abraham as a case study of tithing you must give bread and wine if you collect tithe as a priest or collect bread and wine from the priest you pay tithe to.

4. If you used the teaching of Christ in Matthew 23:23 to emphasize on tithing then you must always tithe mint, anise and cummin and you must do it according to the law.

NB: Don't rush here to argue my friend, sit down and peruse through what you just read. Meanwhile I don't waste my phone ink over arguments.

Thanks.

God bless.

You just quoted a passage without considering all facts. A first glance at the passage seem to support your view that we are no longer under the law. But a thorough look at it shows how wrong you are.

The apostles never stated that Christians shouldn't obey the law. They simple pointed out that which to obey and those not to obey. If you look closely, they listed some parts of the law to obey and also those not to obey as seen in other verses. But you need to ask yourself: Are all they listed what the law is all about? No.

The law is way more than what is listed in the passage you quoted. Does that mean that the rest not mentioned are to be discarded, because according to your understanding, the apostles don't want to lay burden on the gentiles? What you are saying is that the Apostle believe that the law against a man prostituting his daughter is a burden. So according to you, the Apostles now permitted Christian men to prostitute their daughters. Also, the law against tattoos and marks on ones body is seen as a burden by the Apostles, so they say we can disregard those laws and go ahead ti have tattoos. Can you see how your reasoning is flawed?

What you need to understand is that the portions of the law which God doesn't want us to obey any ore, his Apostles noted them and told us not obey them anymore e.g circumcision, animal sacrifice, dietary laws etc.

The laws which God still want us to obey, his Apostles pointed then out also for us to continue to obey them even as gentiles.

Now, what happens to those portions of the laws which God nor the Apostles spoke about in the new testament? Examples: Tithe, sleeping with close kin, tattoos etc . Are we to now disregard them? No.

Simple, it means those laws remain until we hear God say otherwise. Any attempt to change them is equivalent to speaking when God has not spoken. God doesn't need to repeat himself all the time. Most time, he just only needs to say something once and that thing is eternal. No mortal can change it or he will be doomed. Attempt to say the law on tithing has been changed is the same as speaking when God has not spoken.

If you hadn't cropped out important parts of my post, you would have seen where the rest of your points for answered.

If you had followed my post, you would have seen that tithing goes beyond how the law states it to be. Abraham set a standard for the law, which is to give from all, not just agricultural produce. God added agricultural produce to it. Jesus affirmed Abraham's method in his parable of the pharisee and publican. This clearly shows that tithing is not right like you think it is. It came before the law and exists after the law. It is God's property which failure to pay means you are robbing him. Or when did God tell you that his property is no longer his property?

Only a robber will twist the scriptures.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 11:32am On Jun 08
LifestyleTonite:


You just quoted a passage without considering all facts. A first glance at the passage seem to support your view that we are no longer under the law. But a thorough look at it shows how wrong you are.

The apostles never stated that Christians shouldn't obey the law. They simple pointed out that which to obey and those not to obey. If you look closely, they listed some parts of the law to obey and also those not to obey as seen in other verses. But you need to ask yourself: Are all they listed what the law is all about? No.

The law is way more than what is listed in the passage you quoted. Does that mean that the rest not mentioned are to be discarded, because according to your understanding, the apostles don't want to lay burden on the gentiles? What you are saying is that the Apostle believe that the law against a man prostituting his daughter is a burden. So according to you, the Apostles now permitted Christian men to prostitute their daughters. Also, the law against tattoos and marks on ones body is seen as a burden by the Apostles, so they say we can disregard those laws and go ahead ti have tattoos. Can you see how your reasoning is flawed?

What you need to understand is that the portions of the law which God doesn't want us to obey any ore, his Apostles noted them and told us not obey them anymore e.g circumcision, animal sacrifice, dietary laws etc.

The laws which God still want us to obey, his Apostles pointed then out also for us to continue to obey them even as gentiles.

Now, what happens to those portions of the laws which God nor the Apostles spoke about in the new testament? Examples: Tithe, sleeping with close kin, tattoos etc . Are we to now disregard them? No.

Simple, it means those laws remain until we hear God say otherwise. Any attempt to change them is equivalent to speaking when God has not spoken. God doesn't need to repeat himself all the time. Most time, he just only needs to say something once and that thing is eternal. No mortal can change it or he will be doomed. Attempt to say the law on tithing has been changed is the same as speaking when God has not spoken.

If you hadn't cropped out important parts of my post, you would have seen where the rest of your points for answered.

Have you considered what Paul wrote to Timothy in Timothy 1 v 8-11?

8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine


Have you also considered these passages?

Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law...


Are you still under the Law?
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 11:38am On Jun 08
LifestyleTonite:


Abraham tithed as an acknowledge that God was the reason he and his few men were successful in the battle against those Kings and their soldiers. Abraham knew everything belongs to God, and so he gave back 10%. That was the Bible laying down a standard for Abraham's children to follow cos it's worth emulating. Proverbs 3:9 even supported the act of honoring g God with the first fruit of all our increase. The spoils of war was an increase to Abraham.

You don't seem to know that most of Abraham's actions before the law were a foundation for the law and after the law. You God didn't command Abraham to pay tithe, but the same God accepted the tithe because it was a good gesture and went as far as making it a law such that it amount to to robbery when disobeyed. Your reasoning is simple as saying Abraham building an altar where he worshipped God is wrong and should not be emulated because the Bible didn't show where God instructed him to do so.

Genesis 12:8
And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the Lord, and called upon the name of the Lord.

Your reasoning is poor. And stop emphasising on the spoils of war, cos they were Abraham's property after he fought for then with his life with the help of God. So, he had to acknowledge God as the one behind d his victory. Spoils of war is not bad because Israel took spoils too

Joshua 11:14
And all the spoil of these cities, and the cattle, the children of Israel took for a prey unto themselves; but every man they smote with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, neither left they any to breathe.



Stop being blind. I just showed you how Jesus who is God didn't condemn the same pharisee for paying tithe of all he had just as Abraham did, be it agricultural or not. Jesus only condemned him for something else. Haven't you wondered why Jesus didn't condemn tithing in that second instance he had to put a stop to tithing once and for all? He previously didn't in Mathew 23:23. He didn't condemn tithing on two occasions he spoke of it which shows that the law remains. He also didn't condemn the Pharisee's method of tithing because he knew Abraham also tithed in such method, which is give a tenth of all which includes money, agricultural produce, gold etc. All they possess.




What a double-standard fellow you are. Earlier in your post, you condemned a Pharisee for going beyond agricultural produce in paying tithe, a thing Jesus didn't condemn. You say he was overzealous.

But here you are endorsing other Pharisees for paying agricultural produce in the same verse where Jesus who is God enshrined tithing as good. Can you see how you are running confused? grin



God didn't change tithing of agricultural produce to monetary tithing. Rather, he added agricultural produce to tithing. Before the mention of agricultural produce as tithing, the spoils of war was mentioned as tithing and it could have included money, gold, silver, swords, shields, horses, chariots etc. It was later God now added agricultural produce to tithing. The Pharisee and Jesus understood that tithing wasn't only agricultural produce, that's why the pharisee paid other materials as tithe and he wasn't condemned by Jesus for that. So who are you to condemn tithing of other materials, an act which predates tithes of agricultural produce?



Since you know it to be between me and God, why did you bother asking me? You thought your Satan the accuser tactics would find me wanting, right? Epic fail.




Yes, because it says the firstfruits of ALL our increasing.

Proverbs 3:9
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:




You don't address a post with questions. You address before proceeding to ask your own questions.



Scroll up to see that the Agricultural produce that you keep yapping about was an addition.



God clearly spelt it out using Abrahams tithe, tithe under the law and the Pharisee's tithe in the new testament. All of these show that tithing goes beyond just agricultural produce. It is the firstfruits of all our increase.



1) Abraham tithed because he knew the danger of not doing so. He clearly knew that the battle he won against those Kings with just 318 servants of his wasn't all his doing. Imagine defeating Kings who had armed soldiers and forces with just 318 men.

When he met the one behind the victory, he had to acknowledge him by paying tithe. It was a wise thing to do, because failure to do so mean when next he finds himself in similar situation, there won't be a Spiritual power to fight for him, and so those who come against him as devourer will succeed against him. It is that mindset and principle we have imbibed today.

2) The spoils of war was an increase, and so he tithed out of it which matches the scripture Proverbs 3:9

3) And the blessing was maintained and even increased after he did

4) You shouldn't expect the Bible to be just about the amount of times Abraham tithed. It's the same thing as saying Abraham never passed out faeces because the Bible never recorded such.

[

Sorry fella, the curse of the law is when you are depending on it for salvation instead of Jesus. You will never attain salvation because if you fail just one law despite passing the rest, you become guilty of even the ones you passed. That's the curse, and to be free from it, you have to depend on Jesus for salvation.

So it's either you depend on the law for salvation or you depend on Jesus



No, the onus is on you to show us where God told Christians not to tithe. Just cos it is not recorded that they tithed doesn't mean God's law was abolished. Not every act of obeying God's law was recorded.




Buhahaha, this guy... you are not different from the Pharisees that wrongly accused Jesus of working with Belzeebub...

After giving you scriptural and historical evidences that tithing was not performed in the early church...this is the crap you could come up with?


I dey come, I'll address this mess of yours...
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by LifestyleTonite: 12:28pm On Jun 08
OkCornel:


Have you considered what Paul wrote to Timothy in Timothy 1 v 8-11?

8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine


Have you also considered these passages?

Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law...


Are you still under the Law?



As usual, when he's unable to address a post, he applies diversionary tactics, which is throw more questions. That's a sign of not wanting to accept defeat. You couldn't address my post, instead you threw in new questions.

Do you know who a righteous man is? A righteous man is not one who doesn't sin, because the Bible says "All have sinned..".

A righteous man is that man who depends on the sacrifice of Jesus who took away his sins and gave him his own righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

What the verse is saying is that on judgement day, such a man will not be judged based on the righteousness that comes with the law but on the righteousness that Jesus gives. That's why the passages you quoted says such a person is not under the law because he now has the spirit of God which he's led by.

As for those who reject Jesus Christ, such people will be judged according to the law which they will always fails. That's why the passage said the law is made for them, not for the one whom God has given everlasting righteousness.

But a carnal mind like you thinks the passage means the law of God was not created to be obeyed by the righteous. You have simply stated that a righteous man can freely break all the laws. That's silly and can only come from a devil.

I think you lack foundation on salvation. That's why you are interpreting scriptures wrongly.

Well, goodbye, because it's a waste of time arguing God's word with someone who isn't God's child.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 3:11pm On Jun 08
This guy, isn't it very obvious you lack sense?

LifestyleTonite:


As usual, when he's unable to address a post, he applies diversionary tactics, which is throw more questions. That's a sign of not wanting to accept defeat. You couldn't address my post, instead you threw in new questions.

I just replied your post which mentioned something concerning the Christians and the Law, and you are accusing me of applying diversionary tactics? Isn't it obvious you are now exposed for the faulty doctrines you've been propagating?


LifestyleTonite:

Do you know who a righteous man is? A righteous man is not one who doesn't sin, because the Bible says "All have sinned..".

A righteous man is that man who depends on the sacrifice of Jesus who took away his sins and gave him his own righteousness.

[b]2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.[/b]

Can you now see that the bolded part of your quote actually justifies what Paul wrote to Timothy in Timothy 1 v 8-11?

8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine


NOW THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION IS... ARE THOSE IN CHRIST STILL UNDER THE LAW? ANSWER IS CAPITAL NO!

Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law...

LifestyleTonite:

What the verse is saying is that on judgement day, such a man will not be judged based on the righteousness that comes with the law but on the righteousness that Jesus gives. That's why the passages you quoted says such a person is not under the law because he now has the spirit of God which he's led by. As for those who reject Jesus Christ, such people will be judged according to the law which they will always fails. That's why the passage said the law is made for them, not for the one whom God has given everlasting righteousness.


You're still shooting yourself in the foot. Are Christians still required to follow the Law? Read the verses I put there plus the early controversy that happened in the church as recorded in Acts 15 and spare yourself this embarrassment!



LifestyleTonite:

But a carnal mind like you thinks the passage means the law of God was not created to be obeyed by the righteous. You have simply stated that a righteous man can freely break all the laws. That's silly and can only come from a devil.

I think you lack foundation on salvation. That's why you are interpreting scriptures wrongly.

Well, goodbye, because it's a waste of time arguing God's word with someone who isn't God's child.

You are really silly for saying this.

Kindly explain to us how people like Abraham and Job that lived in the era before the Law still live righteous lives...

Ignoramus...
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by LifestyleTonite: 4:15pm On Jun 08
OkCornel:
This guy, isn't it very obvious you lack sense?



I just replied your post which mentioned something concerning the Christians and the Law, and you are accusing me of applying diversionary tactics? Isn't it obvious you are now exposed for the faulty doctrines you've been propagating?




Can you now see that the bolded part of your quote actually justifies what Paul wrote to Timothy in Timothy 1 v 8-11?

8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine


NOW THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION IS... ARE THOSE IN CHRIST STILL UNDER THE LAW? ANSWER IS CAPITAL NO!

Romans 6:14
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law...




You're still shooting yourself in the foot. Are Christians still required to follow the Law? Read the verses I put there plus the early controversy that happened in the church as recorded in Acts 15 and spare yourself this embarrassment!





You are really silly for saying this.

Kindly explain to us how people like Abraham and Job that lived in the era before the Law still live righteous lives...

Ignoramus...


Everything I said concerning the law and righteousness are all about eternal life and salvation. The law cannot save and give righteousness not to talk of eternal life. But Jesus gives all those things if one depends on his grace.

Paul spoke against the law in regards of the theme I just spoke of. He nowhere said the law has been trashed. He only meant t that the law can't get one the righteousness of God and eternal life which are all in Jesus. This doesn't mean we aren't to obey the law. We are just not depending on it for salvation. Those who don't obey the law are carnal minded and in enmity with God. We that are not carnal but have the spirit of God obey the law to please God, not because we depend on it for salvation.

The passage clearly explains everything.


Romans 8:3-8
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Abraham and Job loved by faith just as we do today.

As usual, you come up with new questions just so you don't accept defeat or perhaps just for argument sake.

You know nothing about salvation, righteousness, eternal life and the law. You just read the letter but can't receive the spirit because you are none of God's.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 4:15pm On Jun 08
LifestyleTonite:


Abraham tithed as an acknowledge that God was the reason he and his few men were successful in the battle against those Kings and their soldiers. Abraham knew everything belongs to God, and so he gave back 10%. That was the Bible laying down a standard for Abraham's children to follow cos it's worth emulating. Proverbs 3:9 even supported the act of honoring g God with the first fruit of all our increase. The spoils of war was an increase to Abraham.

Oh now the goal post has shifted from giving "a tithe of all" to a tithe of warspoils... Finally, we are making progress here...

While at it, it would be worthwhile to know Abraham was not a "regular tither"... that transaction which was an act of thanksgiving was one -off...

LifestyleTonite:

You don't seem to know that most of Abraham's actions before the law were a foundation for the law and after the law. You God didn't command Abraham to pay tithe, but the same God accepted the tithe because it was a good gesture and went as far as making it a law such that it amount to to robbery when disobeyed. Your reasoning is simple as saying Abraham building an altar where he worshipped God is wrong and should not be emulated because the Bible didn't show where God instructed him to do so.
Genesis 12:8
And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the Lord, and called upon the name of the Lord.

Do you agree that God never gave any guidelines on tithing in the time of Abraham? And now that God has given guidelines on tithing, should it be jettisoned to follow the example of a man that lived in an era God gave no guidelines on tithing?

LifestyleTonite:



Your reasoning is poor. And stop emphasising on the spoils of war, cos they were Abraham's property after he fought for then with his life with the help of God. So, he had to acknowledge God as the one behind d his victory. Spoils of war is not bad because Israel took spoils too

Joshua 11:14
And all the spoil of these cities, and the cattle, the children of Israel took for a prey unto themselves; but every man they smote with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, neither left they any to breathe.

YOUR REASONING IS SUPER POOR, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO US WHY THE ISRAELITES DIDN'T FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF ABRAHAM TO TITHE THE WAR SPOILS? OR WASN'T IT AN INCREASE TO THEM?

I am also emphasising on warspoils because it proves that Abraham did not give a tithe of "all that he possessed"... which you are using to justify the case of the Pharisee!

LifestyleTonite:

Stop being blind. I just showed you how Jesus who is God didn't condemn the same pharisee for paying tithe of all he had just as Abraham did, be it agricultural or not. Jesus only condemned him for something else.

Concerning the Pharisee, the subject matter as to why Jesus spoke was not on the tithing...besides, if you know one or two thing about shading... Jesus only exposed the fact that being zealous in going beyond and above what the Law demands is not a guarantee for righteousness. It was that boastful, self-righteous act of the Pharisee that was condemned...

LifestyleTonite:

Haven't you wondered why Jesus didn't condemn tithing in that second instance he had to put a stop to tithing once and for all? He previously didn't in Mathew 23:23. He didn't condemn tithing on two occasions he spoke of it which shows that the law remains.

For the umpteenth time, Matthew 23 v 23 was talking about tithes from agro-produce, unless you want to argue that a tithe of mint, anise and cummin is also monetary tithe!

LifestyleTonite:

He also didn't condemn the Pharisee's method of tithing because he knew Abraham also tithed in such method, which is give a tenth of all which includes money, agricultural produce, gold etc. All they possess.

I will just repeat what I typed earlier; Jesus only exposed the fact that being zealous in going beyond and above what the Law demands is not a guarantee for righteousness. It was that boastful, self-righteous act of the Pharisee that was condemned... What the Pharisee tithed was not the focus of Jesus lest He didn't say anything about it!



LifestyleTonite:

What a double-standard fellow you are. Earlier in your post, you condemned a Pharisee for going beyond agricultural produce in paying tithe, a thing Jesus didn't condemn. You say he was overzealous.

But here you are endorsing other Pharisees for paying agricultural produce in the same verse where Jesus who is God enshrined tithing as good. Can you see how you are running confused? grin

You are the confused one here. The Law which God handed over to the children of Israel of whom the Pharisees and Saducees were the custodians and the enforcers... God did not require tithing from anything beyond agricultural produce...

Go and read Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29 and stop advertising your ignorance here!

LifestyleTonite:

God didn't change tithing of agricultural produce to monetary tithing. Rather, he added agricultural produce to tithing. Before the mention of agricultural produce as tithing, the spoils of war was mentioned as tithing and it could have included money, gold, silver, swords, shields, horses, chariots etc. It was later God now added agricultural produce to tithing.

Ladies and gentlemen of nairaland, I hereby introduce to you another lie from the stable of a pro-tither!

Please show us where the Israelites gave a tithe of the spoils of war like Abraham did! Let's start from there, so we can see if your claim here has any scriptural backing!

LifestyleTonite:

The Pharisee and Jesus understood that tithing wasn't only agricultural produce, that's why the pharisee paid other materials as tithe and he wasn't condemned by Jesus for that. So who are you to condemn tithing of other materials, an act which predates tithes of agricultural produce?

And for the umpteenth time! What the Pharisee tithed was not of importance to Jesus...just as you have also skipped the part where the Pharisee also claimed to fast twice a week (something I am very sure you do not do). It was not those things Jesus focused on...hence no need for criticizing such! It was his boastful acts of self righteousness Jesus focused on and condemned!


LifestyleTonite:


Since you know it to be between me and God, why did you bother asking me? You thought your Satan the accuser tactics would find me wanting, right? Epic fail.

Accusing you of what? This is a faceless forum where anyone can claim to be anything with little or no evidence to back it up. I didn't ask you for evidence, that is why I said it is between you and God. But if you are lying...these words will eventually stand against you. "I also give a tithe of everything I possess"... and ignorance is no excuse...



LifestyleTonite:

Yes, because it says the firstfruits of ALL our increasing.

Proverbs 3:9
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

Did this guy go to school at all? Is tithe and firstfruit the same thing?


LifestyleTonite:

You don't address a post with questions. You address before proceeding to ask your own questions.

Because you know the answers to my question already exposes the flaws inherent in your reasoning...


LifestyleTonite:

Scroll up to see that the Agricultural produce that you keep yapping about was an addition.

Kai...so did God also ask for money when He laid out the guidelines on tithing? Read Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29 and expose your folly once more... a tithe of everything indeed...

LifestyleTonite:

God clearly spelt it out using Abrahams tithe, tithe under the law and the Pharisee's tithe in the new testament. All of these show that tithing goes beyond just agricultural produce. It is the firstfruits of all our increase.

Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29 and Matthew 23 v 23 shows you how God wanted tithing to be done per His instructions... show us where in the scriptures God requested for items beyond these...


LifestyleTonite:

1) Abraham tithed because he knew the danger of not doing so. He clearly knew that the battle he won against those Kings with just 318 servants of his wasn't all his doing. Imagine defeating Kings who had armed soldiers and forces with just 318 men.

When he met the one behind the victory, he had to acknowledge him by paying tithe. It was a wise thing to do, because failure to do so mean when next he finds himself in similar situation, there won't be a Spiritual power to fight for him, and so those who come against him as devourer will succeed against him. It is that mindset and principle we have imbibed today.

2) The spoils of war was an increase, and so he tithed out of it which matches the scripture Proverbs 3:9

3) And the blessing was maintained and even increased after he did

Abraham was already blessed before he tithed. Moreover, Abraham was not a "regular tither". He did what he did as an act of thanksgiving...


LifestyleTonite:

4) You shouldn't expect the Bible to be just about the amount of times Abraham tithed. It's the same thing as saying Abraham never passed out faeces because the Bible never recorded such.

Oh Bravo... so we should start assuming things into the scriptures isn't it? Have you forgotten that part of the scripture that says you shouldn't go beyond what is written?


LifestyleTonite:

[

Sorry fella, the curse of the law is when you are depending on it for salvation instead of Jesus. You will never attain salvation because if you fail just one law despite passing the rest, you become guilty of even the ones you passed. That's the curse, and to be free from it, you have to depend on Jesus for salvation.

So it's either you depend on the law for salvation or you depend on Jesus

Please do yourself a favor and research on what the blessings and curses of the law is about. The point I am making here is that the devourer's curse did not start in Malachi. It was enshrined in Deuteronomy...and as such, anyone who believes he is under the devourer's curse for not tithing has put his or herself under the curse of the law for believing such.

LifestyleTonite:


No, the onus is on you to show us where God told Christians not to tithe. Just cos it is not recorded that they tithed doesn't mean God's law was abolished. Not every act of obeying God's law was recorded.



I am quite sure you were not blind when I included historical evidence of how tithing started in the church in 567 AD...which tells you it was not practised in the early church.

More so, when Paul admonished the Corinthians on giving...it would have been a perfect opportunity to tell them to tithe...but what did he say?

2 Corinthians 9 v 7;
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


Also...need I remind you that God gave these instructions as well;

Deutoronomy 22 v 11-12;
11"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together.
12"You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself.…

Leviticus 19:19
'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.

Your reasons for not doing these would also be the reason why Christians are not mandated to tithe...
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 4:18pm On Jun 08
LifestyleTonite:


Everything I said concerning the law and righteousness are all about eternal life and salvation. The law cannot save and give righteousness not to talk of eternal life. But Jesus gives all those things if one depends on his grace.

Paul spoke against the law in regards of the theme I just spoke of. He nowhere said the law has been trashed. He only meant t that the law can't get one the righteousness of God and eternal life which are all in Jesus. This doesn't mean we aren't to obey the law. We are just not depending on it for salvation. Those who don't obey the law are carnal minded and in enmity with God. We that are not carnal but have the spirit of God obey the law to please God, not because we depend on it for salvation.

The passage clearly explains everything.


Romans 8:3-8
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Abraham and Job loved by faith just as we do today.

As usual, you come up with new questions just so you don't accept defeat or perhaps just for argument sake.

You know nothing about salvation, righteousness, eternal life and the law. You just read the letter but can't receive the spirit because you are none of God's.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Simple question I have been asking you... Are Christians under the Law?

My own answer is no. And I have given you scriptures...

1 Timothy 1 v 8-11; Acts 15; Romans 6 v 14; Galatians 5 v 18.

If you don't agree with it...please go and argue with Paul and the Apostles...

For a start, the Apostles made it clear the law was not binding (especially on the gentiles who were never under the law in the first place) in Acts 15.

Even Paul made it clear in 1 Timothy 1 v 8-11 that the law is not for the righteous man... but for

1) Law breakers
2) Rebels
3) The ungodly and sinful
4) The unholy and profane
5) Murderers of Fathers and Mothers
6) For manslayers
7) For whoremongers, those that defile themselves with mankind.
8 ) For men stealers
9) For Liars
10) For perjured persons


If you fall in the above categories...the Law applies to you. Unless you are arguing that you are among what I have listed here...
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by LifestyleTonite: 4:53pm On Jun 08
OkCornel:


Oh now the goal post has shifted from giving "a tithe of all" to a tithe of warspoils... Finally, we are making progress here...

While at it, it would be worthwhile to know Abraham was not a "regular tither"... that transaction which was an act of thanksgiving was one -off...



Do you agree that God never gave any guidelines on tithing in the time of Abraham? And now that God has given guidelines on tithing, should it be jettisoned to follow the example of a man that lived in an era God gave no guidelines on tithing?



YOUR REASONING IS SUPER POOR, PLEASE EXPLAIN TO US WHY THE ISRAELITES DIDN'T FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF ABRAHAM TO TITHE THE WAR SPOILS? OR WASN'T IT AN INCREASE TO THEM?

I am also emphasising on warspoils because it proves that Abraham did not give a tithe of "all that he possessed"... which you are using to justify the case of the Pharisee!



Concerning the Pharisee, the subject matter as to why Jesus spoke was not on the tithing...besides, if you know one or two thing about shading... Jesus only exposed the fact that being zealous in going beyond and above what the Law demands is not a guarantee for righteousness. It was that boastful, self-righteous act of the Pharisee that was condemned...



For the umpteenth time, Matthew 23 v 23 was talking about tithes from agro-produce, unless you want to argue that a tithe of mint, anise and cummin is also monetary tithe!



I will just repeat what I typed earlier; Jesus only exposed the fact that being zealous in going beyond and above what the Law demands is not a guarantee for righteousness. It was that boastful, self-righteous act of the Pharisee that was condemned... What the Pharisee tithed was not the focus of Jesus lest He didn't say anything about it!





You are the confused one here. The Law which God handed over to the children of Israel of whom the Pharisees and Saducees were the custodians and the enforcers... God did not require tithing from anything beyond agricultural produce...

Go and read Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29 and stop advertising your ignorance here!



Ladies and gentlemen of nairaland, I hereby introduce to you another lie from the stable of a pro-tither!

Please show us where the Israelites gave a tithe of the spoils of war like Abraham did! Let's start from there, so we can see if your claim here has any scriptural backing!



And for the umpteenth time! What the Pharisee tithed was not of importance to Jesus...just as you have also skipped the part where the Pharisee also claimed to fast twice a week (something I am very sure you do not do). It was not those things Jesus focused on...hence no need for criticizing such! It was his boastful acts of self righteousness Jesus focused on and condemned!




Accusing you of what? This is a faceless forum where anyone can claim to be anything with little or no evidence to back it up. I didn't ask you for evidence, that is why I said it is between you and God. But if you are lying...these words will eventually stand against you. "I also give a tithe of everything I possess"... and ignorance is no excuse...





Did this guy go to school at all? Is tithe and firstfruit the same thing?




Because you know the answers to my question already exposes the flaws inherent in your reasoning...




Kai...so did God also ask for money when He laid out the guidelines on tithing? Read Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29 and expose your folly once more... a tithe of everything indeed...



Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29 and Matthew 23 v 23 shows you how God wanted tithing to be done per His instructions... show us where in the scriptures God requested for items beyond these...




Abraham was already blessed before he tithed. Moreover, Abraham was not a "regular tither". He did what he did as an act of thanksgiving...




Oh Bravo... so we should start assuming things into the scriptures isn't it? Have you forgotten that part of the scripture that says you shouldn't go beyond what is written?




Please do yourself a favor and research on what the blessings and curses of the law is about. The point I am making here is that the devourer's curse did not start in Malachi. It was enshrined in Deuteronomy...and as such, anyone who believes he is under the devourer's curse for not tithing has put his or herself under the curse of the law for believing such.



I am quite sure you were not blind when I included historical evidence of how tithing started in the church in 567 AD...which tells you it was not practised in the early church.

More so, when Paul admonished the Corinthians on giving...it would have been a perfect opportunity to tell them to tithe...but what did he say?

2 Corinthians 9 v 7;
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


Also...need I remind you that God gave these instructions as well;

Deutoronomy 22 v 11-12;
11"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together.
12"You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself.…

Leviticus 19:19
'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.

Your reasons for not doing these would also be the reason why Christians are not mandated to tithe...

Go and reach Joshua chapters 6 & 7 to see how the spoils of war in the first city was given to God. Read further to see how those in the other cities were left for them to keep.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by LifestyleTonite: 4:55pm On Jun 08
OkCornel:


Simple question I have been asking you... Are Christians under the Law?

My own answer is no. And I have given you scriptures...

1 Timothy 1 v 8-11; Acts 15; Romans 6 v 14; Galatians 5 v 18.

If you don't agree with it...please go and argue with Paul and the Apostles...

For a start, the Apostles made it clear the law was not binding (especially on the gentiles who were never under the law in the first place) in Acts 15.

Even Paul made it clear in 1 Timothy 1 v 8-11 that the law is not for the righteous man... but for

1) Law breakers
2) Rebels
3) The ungodly and sinful
4) The unholy and profane
5) Murderers of Fathers and Mothers
6) For manslayers
7) For whoremongers, those that defile themselves with mankind.
8 ) For men stealers
9) For Liars
10) For perjured persons


If you fall in the above categories...the Law applies to you. Unless you are arguing that you are among what I have listed here...

You have no argument here but you keep reharshing the same trashed subject.

My aim is not to win you over but for my innocent brothers not to be deceived by your likes. I'll advice you dont quote me again because you won't get any response neither will I read it.
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by Nobody: 5:42pm On Jun 08
LifestyleTonite:


You just quoted a passage without considering all facts. A first glance at the passage seem to support your view that we are no longer under the law. But a thorough look at it shows how wrong you are.
Do you even know what is called bible dispensation? First and foremost, the law is for the Jews solely and not 1 of it is meant for the gentiles.(I know what you are thinking right now, but pray, sit down and study the book of Galatians back to back instead of spewing trash.)
From the bolded are you then insinuating that we are under the law or meant to observe some laws which was never meant for us in the first place?

Also have it in mind that the Jews that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are no longer any single law but grace. You know why bro? Because the written code kills but the spirit gives life. If you have the Holy Spirit you will live a Holy life and do things according to the will of God when you fellowship with Him in truth and in Spirit.


LifestyleTonite:

The apostles never stated that Christians shouldn't obey the law. They simple pointed out that which to obey and those not to obey. If you look closely, they listed some parts of the law to obey and also those not to obey as seen in other verses. But you need to ask yourself: Are all they listed what the law is all about? No.
you nor go kee me with laugh this guy..... Lol.
According to the book of Acts 15 which law(s) are listed for us to observe and not to observe?

Mr LifestyleTonight the Apostles creed sat down and took time to summarize the whole law and that is what you are seeing in Acts 15.

LifestyleTonite:

The law is way more than what is listed in the passage you quoted. Does that mean that the rest not mentioned are to be discarded, because according to your understanding, the apostles don't want to lay burden on the gentiles? What you are saying is that the Apostle believe that the law against a man prostituting his daughter is a burden. So according to you, the Apostles now permitted Christian men to prostitute their daughters. Also, the law against tattoos and marks on ones body is seen as a burden by the Apostles, so they say we can disregard those laws and go ahead ti have tattoos. Can you see how your reasoning is flawed?
Like I said earlier you need to eat, sleep, wake up, pray and study the book of Galatians back to back.
1. A man sending his child into prostitution is a flaw because he knows very well that he ought to take care of his family. 1 Timothy 5:8. Prostitution is sexual immorality(Adultery or fornication) and you can find that in Galatians 5:19

2. I cherish been led by the Holy Spirit of the Living God. I don't think He will lead me to draw tattoos on my body because base on my current understanding there is no gain in it. Since our body is the temple of the living God(1 Corinthians 6:19) I think He will love our body to remain the way He created us.

But however tattoo on the body is not a sin. I repeat tattoo on the body is not a sin. Tattoo on the body might be done to look attractive and same with body cream, body spray, bleaching, skin toning etc.........I KNOW YOU WILL UNLEASH YOUR FIRE FORCE BECAUSE OF THIS STATEMENT BUT YOU CAN EITHER CHOOSE TO TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.

LifestyleTonite:

What you need to understand is that the portions of the law which God doesn't want us to obey any ore, his Apostles noted them and told us not obey them anymore e.g circumcision, animal sacrifice, dietary laws etc.

The laws which God still want us to obey, his Apostles pointed then out also for us to continue to obey them even as gentiles.
What then are the laws we are to obey?

LifestyleTonite:

Now, what happens to those portions of the laws which God nor the Apostles spoke about in the new testament? Examples: Tithe, sleeping with close kin, tattoos etc . Are we to now disregard them? No.
Like I said before the law is for the Jews only.
Do you even know that there are more than 500 laws?
If you say we are to remove circumcision, dietary laws, blood sacrifices etc. can you be able to keep the rest? Remember if you fail in one law you are guilty of all...... Lol....... As you dey pay tithe make sure say other things follow.... Lol

LifestyleTonite:

Simple, it means those laws remain until we hear God say otherwise. Any attempt to change them is equivalent to speaking when God has not spoken. God doesn't need to repeat himself all the time. Most time, he just only needs to say something once and that thing is eternal. No mortal can change it or he will be doomed. Attempt to say the law on tithing has been changed is the same as speaking when God has not spoken.
So I am doomed if I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and do not pay tithe or observe the law that I have been delivered from......Mtcheeeeew. So what then is the curse of the law I have been delivered from?

LifestyleTonite:

If you hadn't cropped out important parts of my post, you would have seen where the rest of your points for answered.

If you had followed my post, you would have seen that tithing goes beyond how the law states it to be. Abraham set a standard for the law, which is to give from all, not just agricultural produce. God added agricultural produce to it. Jesus affirmed Abraham's method in his parable of the pharisee and publican. This clearly shows that tithing is not right like you think it is. It came before the law and exists after the law. It is God's property which failure to pay means you are robbing him. Or when did God tell you that his property is no longer his property?
If you pay tithe like Abraham make sure you collect bread and wine from the priest you gave it to, if you receive tithe like Priest Melchizedek make sure you give bread and wine to whom you receive tithe that's my concern. If you say the Lord Jesus Christ mandated us to pay tithe then you must pay it according to the law the Pharisees followed.
Do this so that we can properly analyse who is the robber here.

LifestyleTonite:

Only a robber will twist the scriptures.
In summary the LAW IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IS NOT ONE DAY MEANT FOR THE GENTILES BUT THE JEWS. IF ANY JEW BELEIVES AND ADHERE TO CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD AND GOD HE IS NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW BUT GRACE WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVES LIFE WHEN WE FELLOWSHIP WITH HIM IN TRUTH AND IN SPIRIT AND LED IN ALL THINGS ACCORDING TO HIS WILL.

Mr OkCornel forgive me for going deeper because I'm not suppose to do so as you are well delivering all truth the way it ought to be right here on this thread. But because this modern day Pharisee lacks some vital truth I needed to do so and I promise not to waste my phone ink arguing with him again.

Mr LifestyleTonight this is my last response. It is not easy to accept truth that has come to unravel the falsehood you so much cherish, my advice is for you to peruse the scriptures back to back by the leading of the Holy Spirit and in prayer, you can choose to add fasting to it.

The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off....... Gloria Steinem.

Thanks.

God bless.

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Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:53pm On Jun 08
LifestyleTonite:


Go and reach Joshua chapters 6 & 7 to see how the spoils of war in the first city was given to God. Read further to see how those in the other cities were left for them to keep.

I am fuming here because you accuse me of interpreting the scriptures wrongly whereas, that is what you just did here now!

Abraham gave a tithe of the warspoils... however, this was what God instructed the Israelites to do with the war spoils from Jericho...


Joshua 6 v 17-24;
17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the Lord: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.

18 And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it.

19 But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: they shall come into the treasury of the Lord.


20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

22 But Joshua had said unto the two men that had spied out the country, Go into the harlot's house, and bring out thence the woman, and all that she hath, as ye sware unto her.

23 And the young men that were spies went in, and brought out Rahab, and her father, and her mother, and her brethren, and all that she had; and they brought out all her kindred, and left them without the camp of Israel.

24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the Lord.


@ LifestyleTonite... if truly you went to school and have a basic understanding of english language... how does taking the 100% of gold and silver into the Treasury of the Lord automatically means a tithe of war spoils like Abraham did?

Also, the Israelites were instructed to slaughter all men, women, children and livestock...these are also warspoils that were not considered titheable by God...or were you blind to this before referring me to this scripture?
Re: The Significance of Tithing and Firstfruits for Believers by OkCornel(m): 5:59pm On Jun 08
LifestyleTonite:


You have no argument here but you keep reharshing the same trashed subject.

My aim is not to win you over but for my innocent brothers not to be deceived by your likes. I'll advice you dont quote me again because you won't get any response neither will I read it.

Because you have nothing useful to counter what I've said so far.

According to 1 Timothy 1 v 8-11; the Law applies to...

1) Law breakers
2) Rebels
3) The ungodly and sinful
4) The unholy and profane
5) Murderers of Fathers and Mothers
6) For manslayers
7) For whoremongers, those that defile themselves with mankind.
8 ) For men stealers
9) For Liars
10) For perjured persons

If you belong to any of these... the Law applies to you...


I am still awaiting scriptural and historical evidences that showed the early church (i.e. the early Christians) tithed. Historical evidence points to the fact that tithing in the church started with the Catholic church through the synod of Macon in 567 AD.

If you have no evidence to back your arguments, you have been nothing but a sheer waste of my precious time...

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