and, for your information, egyptians don't see themselves as africans. and, rightly so, they are ARABS.

Thank you, Katsumoto for making that distinction, but I'd like to state something about that second point of your post (Africa lagging behind). It is not necessarily directed at you though. It's for the general topic. I'm just using your second point as a foundation for my post. As I stated before, (and as I am stating again), this topic of Africa lagging behind is not a matter of intelligence capacity. It apparently is not, because when Europeans came, and colonized Africa, and 'introduced' literacy and other things, Africans caught on rather quickly, for a group of people who, according to some, lack the intelligence capacity. In fact, Africans caught on so quickly, that we [Africans] are apparently here today, making use of these sophisticated technological advancements (computers and the internet) to discuss how unintelligent we are. We are also apparently, attending schools in the U.S. and Europe, and outdoing Europeans, academically (proving our literacy capacity). If we truly are/were as sub-par as some want to make it out to seem, then I don't see any reason why we should be accomplishing these feats of apparent intelligence.

Which brings me to something I state earlier; diffusion of ideas. [At the risk of repeating myself] diffusion is what allowed for the kind of technological advancement we currently witness today. In sub-Sahara Africa, the geography presented a logistics problem for [cultural] diffusion [of ideas], relative to Europe which has a more plains-like geography. As a matter of fact, many sub-Sahara African societies lived in relative isolation to one another, because of this (consider the intense diversity existent in Nigeria alone, not to even talk of Africa as a whole). This is not to say that diffusion wasn't occurring amongst us. It was, but at a rather slow rate. Colonialism though, 'hyper-jumped' the system. Because of colonialism, we no longer had to wait the centuries that Europe and Asia waited, in order to 'evolve' those ideas. Instead, all the diffusion came at once. Now that it is here though, it is up to us to utilize the diffusion to our own advantages. It is at this point, that this topic of discussion blends into the first point that Katsumoto made (the separate argument as to whether or not slavery and colonialism left us worse off).

But, long story short, this topic of Africa lagging behind is not an issue of 'lacking intelligence capacity', or 'sub-par intelligence levels'.

^^^^
they don't question your ability to read and understand theories these days. but, how many great things have we invented in the last 100 years. despite our no of professors. i believe in my ability but we have to state the thruth.

we are not at their level, YET. FACT!

ChinenyeN:

Thank you, Katsumoto for making that distinction, but I'd like to state something about that second point of your post (Africa lagging behind). It is not necessarily directed at you though. It's for the general topic. I'm just using your second point as a foundation for my post. As I stated before, (and as I am stating again), this topic of Africa lagging behind is not a matter of intelligence capacity. It apparently is not, because when Europeans came, and colonized Africa, and 'introduced' literacy and other things, Africans caught on rather quickly (for a group of people who, according to some, lacked the intelligence capacity). In fact, Africans caught on so quickly, that we [Africans] are apparently here today, making use of these sophisticated technological advancements (computers and the internet) to discuss how unintelligent we are. We are also apparently, attending schools in the U.S. and Europe, and outdoing Europeans, academically (proving our literacy capacity). If we truly are/were that sub-par, then I don't see any reason why we should be accomplishing these feats of apparent intelligence.

Which brings me to the point I state earlier; diffusion of ideas. [At the risk of repeating myself] diffusion is what allowed for the kind of technological advancement we currently witness today. In sub-Sahara Africa, the geography presented a logistics problem for [cultural] diffusion [of ideas], relative to Europe which has a more plains-like geography. As a matter of fact, many sub-Sahara African societies lived in relative isolation to one another, because of this (consider the intense diversity existent in Nigeria alone, not to even talk of Africa as a whole). This is not to say that diffusion wasn't occurring amongst us. It was, but at a rather slow rate. Colonialism though, 'hyper-jumped' the system. Because of colonialism, we no longer had to wait the centuries that Europe and Asia waited, in order to 'evolve' those ideas. Instead, all the diffusion came at once. Now that it is here though, it is up to us to utilize the diffusion to our own advantages. It is at this point, that this topic of discussion blends into the first point that Katsumoto made (the separate argument as to whether or not slavery and colonialism left us worse off).

Long story short, this topic of Africa lagging behind is not an issue of 'lacking intelligence capacity', or 'sub-par intelligence levels'.

Thank you for your post. Africa was simply at a different evolution state, than Asia and Africa due to our geography. And thank you for brining up how Africans at universities in the United States and Europe are outperforming domestic students. This is a fact. What does this say about our intelligence and our commitment to education? I do not believe in the notion, that Africans are not as intelligent as Europeans or Asians, because the fact in the matter is that on a level playing field, we Africans perform just as well or better as whites and Asians.

Aigbofa:

And tell me, who were the first people to write? Again it's between the Mesopotamians and Ancient Egyptians of course.
The Europeans gained a lot from Africa, it doesn't matter they improved on the knowledge gained and refused to give any credit to Africa. Afterall, they are the ones writting the history.

Modern day English is based on Sanskrit alphabets not ancient egyptian hieroglyphics, plus why are all the civilizations in "Africa" that created writing systems all in the the extreme east, Egypt and Ethiopia both of whom have heavy semitic/caucasian admixture. Even the berbers who are indigenous to North Africa but are caucasian have their own self developed writing system. The only set of people in Africa that didn't create a writing system are the ones that are in the heart of africa and unmixed with whites etc. I want someone to give me an answer, west africa, central africa and southern africa have no writing sytems of their own, only extreme north (Mediterranean admixture) and East Africans (semitic admixture) look at a map and conclude the proximity of these groups with our reading and writing African brothers.  The obasanjo looking African has always been starkly illiterate

ola olabiy:

^^^^
they don't question your ability to read and understand theories these days. but, how many great things have we invented in the last 100 years.  despite our no of professors. i believe in my ability but we have to state the thruth.

we are not at their level, YET. FACT!

This is a different discussion altogether, and more inline with the argument of how (and whether or not) slavery and colonization left Africa worse off.

ChinenyeN:

Thank you, Katsumoto for making that distinction, but I'd like to state something about that second point of your post (Africa lagging behind). It is not necessarily directed at you though. It's for the general topic. I'm just using your second point as a foundation for my post. As I stated before, (and as I am stating again), this topic of Africa lagging behind is not a matter of intelligence capacity. It apparently is not, because when Europeans came, and colonized Africa, and 'introduced' literacy and other things, Africans caught on rather quickly, for a group of people who, according to some, lack the intelligence capacity. In fact, Africans caught on so quickly, that we [Africans] are apparently here today, making use of these sophisticated technological advancements (computers and the internet) to discuss how unintelligent we are. We are also apparently, attending schools in the U.S. and Europe, and outdoing Europeans, academically (proving our literacy capacity). If we truly are/were as sub-par as some want to make it out to seem, then I don't see any reason why we should be accomplishing these feats of apparent intelligence.

Which brings me to something I state earlier; diffusion of ideas. [At the risk of repeating myself] diffusion is what allowed for the kind of technological advancement we currently witness today. In sub-Sahara Africa, the geography presented a logistics problem for [cultural] diffusion [of ideas], relative to Europe which has a more plains-like geography. As a matter of fact, many sub-Sahara African societies lived in relative isolation to one another, because of this (consider the intense diversity existent in Nigeria alone, not to even talk of Africa as a whole). This is not to say that diffusion wasn't occurring amongst us. It was, but at a rather slow rate. Colonialism though, 'hyper-jumped' the system. Because of colonialism, we no longer had to wait the centuries that Europe and Asia waited, in order to 'evolve' those ideas. Instead, all the diffusion came at once. Now that it is here though, it is up to us to utilize the diffusion to our own advantages. It is at this point, that this topic of discussion blends into the first point that Katsumoto made (the separate argument as to whether or not slavery and colonialism left us worse off).

But, long story short, this topic of Africa lagging behind is not an issue of 'lacking intelligence capacity', or 'sub-par intelligence levels'.

I agree with you. Very intelligent post.

Africaan societies stayed in relative isolation to each other so information and technology did not diffse as they cold have

Colonialism put s on fast forward and forced concepts like literacy down our throats.
And it is for the better because it intoduced us to a whole world out there that we knew nothing about

Anybody who doubts that should try to write his native language without the help of latin scripts

gadogado:


Modern day English is based on Sanskrit alphabets not ancient egyptian hieroglyphics, plus why are all the civilizations in "Africa" that created writing systems all in the the extreme east, Egypt and Ethiopia both of whom have heavy semitic/caucasian admixture. Even the berbers who are indigenous to North Africa but are caucasian have their own self developed writing system. The only set of people in Africa that didn't create a writing system are the ones that are in the heart of africa and unmixed with whites etc. I want someone to give me an answer, west africa, central africa and southern africa have no writing sytems of their own, only extreme north (Mediterranean admixture) and East Africans (semitic admixture) look at a map and conclude the proximity of these groups with our reading and writing African brothers.  The obasanjo looking African has always been starkly illiterate

You are wrong!  Let me give you some examples of African writing systems.

- Adinkra [/b]symbols found in Ghana amongst the Akan people
- The [b]Mende Script. . . Exmples found here http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Mende.html
- [b]Nsibidi [/b]in Eastern Nigeria amongst the Igbo and Ibibio
- [b]Shumom [/b]in Cameroon
- [b]Vai [/b]and modern day Liberia

Now what are you saying that Africans did not having a writing system? Like I told you before, learn African history before you make erroneous statements.

gadogado:


Modern day English is based on Sanskrit alphabets not ancient egyptian hieroglyphics, plus why are all the civilizations in "Africa" that created writing systems all in the the extreme east, Egypt and Ethiopia both of whom have heavy semitic/caucasian admixture. Even the berbers who are indigenous to North Africa but are caucasian have their own self developed writing system. The only set of people in Africa that didn't create a writing system are the ones that are in the heart of africa and unmixed with whites etc. I want someone to give me an answer, west africa, central africa and southern africa have no writing sytems of their own, only extreme north (Mediterranean admixture) and East Africans (semitic admixture) look at a map and conclude the proximity of these groups with our reading and writing African brothers.  The obasanjo looking African has always been starkly illiterate

Are you even following normal logic?

Why not dissect Europe as you do Africa? How come you are ready to accept English achievement as a European achievement, but reject Ethoipian or Egyptian or Berbers as African achievement?

Frankly, there is a gap in your thought process.

As long as Africa is ONE continues land space (not islands in the ocean), no part of Africa can be divorced from the achievement of the other.

gadogado:


Modern day English is based on Sanskrit alphabets not ancient egyptian hieroglyphics, plus why are all the civilizations in "Africa" that created writing systems all in the the extreme east, Egypt and Ethiopia both of whom have heavy semitic/caucasian admixture. Even the berbers who are indigenous to North Africa but are caucasian have their own self developed writing system. The only set of people in Africa that didn't create a writing system are the ones that are in the heart of africa and unmixed with whites etc. I want someone to give me an answer, west africa, central africa and southern africa have no writing sytems of their own, only extreme north (Mediterranean admixture) and East Africans (semitic admixture) look at a map and conclude the proximity of these groups with our reading and writing African brothers.  The obasanjo looking African has always been starkly illiterate

Correct me if I am wrong but I was of the impression that even the white Berbers had the same problem with written language as the rest of the continent.

The only African societies that actually wrote I thought were the North East and the ones  in Ethiopia who always had contact with the Middle East

I might be wrong though

Onlytruth:


As long as Africa is ONE continues land space (not islands in the ocean), no part of Africa can be divorced from the achievement of the other.

I even provided him with information of other writing scripts that can be found in "sub-saharan Africa." The Mende had their own writing script before Islam even penetrated into their territory.

gadogado:


Modern day English is based on Sanskrit alphabets not ancient egyptian hieroglyphics, plus why are all the civilizations in "Africa" that created writing systems all in the the extreme east, Egypt and Ethiopia both of whom have heavy semitic/caucasian admixture. Even the berbers who are indigenous to North Africa but are caucasian have their own self developed writing system. The only set of people in Africa that didn't create a writing system are the ones that are in the heart of africa and unmixed with whites etc. I want someone to give me an answer, west africa, central africa and southern africa have no writing sytems of their own, only extreme north (Mediterranean admixture) and East Africans (semitic admixture) look at a map and conclude the proximity of these groups with our reading and writing African brothers.  The obasanjo looking African has always been starkly illiterate

black african writing is symbolic rather than alphabetic.

i doubt Islam would encourage such, and would institute arabic instead, as the official language of communication, in african areas under islamic control.

sage:



The only African societies that actually wrote I thought were the North East and the ones  in Ethiopia who always had contact with the Middle East

I might be wrong though

The same goes for you. 

You are wrong! Let me give you some examples of African writing systems.

- Adinkra [/b]symbols found in Ghana amongst the Akan people
- The [b]Mende Script. . . Exmples found here http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Mende.html
- Nsibidi [/b]in Eastern Nigeria amongst the Igbo and Ibibio.
- [b]Shumom [/b]in Cameroon
- [b]Vai [/b]and modern day Liberia

Now what are you saying that Africans did not having a writing system? Like I told you before, learn African history before you make erroneous statements.

[b]So will someone refute me if they can?

tpiah:

black african writing is symbolic rather than alphabetic.

EXPATIATE, PLEASE

Onlytruth:

Are you even following normal logic?

Why not dissect Europe as you do Africa? How come you are ready to accept English achievement as a European achievement, but reject Ethoipian or Egyptian or Berbers as African achievement?

Frankly, there is a gap in your thought process.

As long as Africa is ONE continues land space (not islands in the ocean), no part of Africa can be divorced from the achievement of the other.

The problem starts from people buying the idea of a "black Africa" when no such thing actually exists

Tuaregs and Zulus are as different as Zulus are from Arabs but people put the first two groups together as a single society while infact they are not and would never be

What we should be dis-assembling is the erronous idea of a similar "black Africa"

Fulanis and Igbos in one country are not even similar to each other at all not to talk of the whole continent

More African Writing Scripts!

Alphabetic Writing Script
- Bassa Script amongst the Bassa people of Liberia.
http://www.uniboa.org/bassalanguage.html

I hope that shuts up gadogado [/b]and [b]sage. I refuted them up and down this thread. It is not even funny anymore.

Saying that Africans did not have writing systems. People really need to learn the history of the continent.

sage:

The problem starts from people buying the idea of a "black Africa" when no such thing actually exists

Tuaregs and Zulus are as different as Zulus are from Arabs but people put the first two groups together as a single society while infact they are not and would never be

What we should be dis-assembling is the erronous idea of a similar "black Africa"

Fulanis and Igbos in one country are not even similar to each other at all not to talk of the whole continent

Africa in ONE, just like Europe is ONE, with different peoples of course. You can't tell me that a Chechen is not a European, can you?
Meanwhile the Chechen can claim European civilization; why can't a Nigerian claim Ethiopian civilization as an African.

People should stop dissecting Africa in ways that suit their dubious missions.

EzeUche22:

The same goes for you. 

You are wrong! Let me give you some examples of African writing systems.

- Adinkra [/b]symbols found in Ghana amongst the Akan people
- The [b]Mende Script. . . Exmples found here http://www.library.cornell.edu/africana/Writing_Systems/Mende.html
- Nsibidi [/b]in Eastern Nigeria amongst the Igbo and Ibibio.
- [b]Shumom [/b]in Cameroon
- [b]Vai [/b]and modern day Liberia

Now what are you saying that Africans did not having a writing system? Like I told you before, learn African history before you make erroneous statements.

[b]So will someone refute me if they can?

Mende script was devised by Mohammed Turay (born ca. 1850), an Islamic scholar, at a town called Maka (Barri Chiefdom, southern Sierra Leone). One of Turay's Koranic students was a young man named Kisimi Kamara. Kamara was the grandson of Turay's sister. Kamara also married Turay's daughter, Mariama. Turay devised a form of writing called 'Mende Abajada' (meaning 'Mende alphabet'), which was inspired in part by the Arabic abjad and in part by the Vai syllabary.

Dude, something that came up less than a hundered years ago does not count! period!!

ola olabiy:

EXPANTIATE, PLEASE

for reasons best known to them, africans chose not to record their indigenous writings systems on paper.

your guess as to their motives, is as good as mine. [s]Barring religious influences which i mentioned before[/s], why black africans, who by the way mostly migrated to their current locations, chose to dump the recording media of where they were coming from, leaves much to the imagination.

gadogado:

Mende script was devised by Mohammed Turay (born ca. 1850), an Islamic scholar, at a town called Maka (Barri Chiefdom, southern Sierra Leone). One of Turay's Koranic students was a young man named Kisimi Kamara. Kamara was the grandson of Turay's sister. Kamara also married Turay's daughter, Mariama. Turay devised a form of writing called 'Mende Abajada' (meaning 'Mende alphabet'), which was inspired in part by the Arabic abjad and in part by the Vai syllabary.

Dude, something that came up less than a hundered years ago does not count! period!!

So only one scripts you have a problem with? I gave you the others. So what can you say about and I also provided another one. And Nsibidi  and Adinkra is old as well. I refuted you. End of discussion concerning writing scripts.

And I know a good amount about Nsibidi as well. My Aro ancestors used it and my grandfather was well versed in it as well.

Onlytruth:

Africa in ONE, just like Europe is ONE, with different peoples of course. You can't tell me that a Chechen is not a European, can you?
Meanwhile the Chechen can claim European civilization; why can't a Nigerian claim Ethiopian civilization as an African.

People should stop dissecting Africa in ways that suit their dubious missions.

Have you ever seen people in Chechnya claim Britain or Italy before? Have you seen Indians claiming China's civilization before even though they are all Asians?

@ezeuche

These scripts you're coming up with are concepts that came up very recently. I once showed my professor and a liberian girl that bassa script, its complete bull shit. If it came up after colonization or post European contact, then it doesn't count. All of these scripts you're coming up with came post EC so they don't count. Furthermore, they're pretty much rip offs and modifications of arabic, latin et.al

sage:


Have you ever seen people in Chechnya claim Britain or Italy before? Have you seen Indians claiming China's civilization before even though they are all Asians?

Do the British and French not claim Ancient Rome and Greece as their classical civilizations? Even the Russians claim they are an extension of the Old Roman Empire through their contact with the Byzantine Empire.

Indians have their own ancient civilization and China is ancient as well.

So why can't African societies claim Ancient Egypt as our classical civilization. Since it is now providing inspiration for Africans around the continent.

sage:


Have you ever seen people in Chechnya claim Britain or Italy before? Have you seen Indians claiming China's civilization before even though they are all Asians?

I said EUROPE not specific countries.

Historically, there is just one European country that started the whole thing: GREEKS. And they even copied everything down to mathematics and 12 gods from Egypt. Others merely copied from them.

sage:


Have you ever seen people in Chechnya claim Britain or Italy before? Have you seen Indians claiming China's civilization before even though they are all Asians?

Don't mind that guy, wonder what world he lives in. Things are not nearly that convenient!

tpiah:

for reasons best known to them, africans chose not to record their indigenous writings systems on paper.

your guess as to their motives, is as good as mine. [s]Barring religious influences which i mentioned before[/s], why black africans, who by the way mostly migrated to their current locations, chose to dump the recording media of where they were coming from, leaves much to the imagination.

in doing that they opened themselves up for riddicule and carricature from outsiders because all that you have left is tales from your grand father

Onlytruth:

I said EUROPE not specific countries.

Historically, there is just one European country that started the whole thing: GREEKS. And they even copied everything down to mathematics and 12 gods from Egypt. Others merely copied from them.

Thank you!

Every single European nation copied the Greeks. That is their source. Their philosophy, culture and language in some ways were influenced by the Greeks.

And the Greeks copied the Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient people of Mesopotamia.

EzeUche22:

Do the British and French not claim Ancient Rome and Greece as their classical civilizations? Even the Russians claim they are an extension of the Old Roman Empire through their contact with the Byzantine Empire.

Indians have their own ancient civilization and China is ancient as well.

So why can't African societies claim Ancient Egypt as our classical civilization. Since it is now providing inspiration for Africans around the continent.

Britain and France were parts of the Roman empire and have Roman influences including language and religion so there is a connection

And those societies have actually invented recent stuff and dont really talk about Rome

When you hear about British invention they are not talking about Rome at all

French comes from latin

Nigeria was not a part of Ancient Egypt

gadogado:

@ezeuche

These scripts you're coming up with are concepts that came up very recently. I once showed my professor and a liberian girl that bassa script, its complete bull poo. If it came up after colonization or post European contact, then it doesn't count. All of these scripts you're coming up with came post EC so they don't count. Furthermore, they're pretty much rip offs and modifications of arabic, latin et.al

Are you trying to tell me that Nsibidi is recent! I shall call you a liar. Are you trying to tell me that the Andinkra script is recent? An Ashanti or a Fante person shall call you a liar!

I refuted you.

I can't believe the level of ignorance being paraded without shame by so called Africans here.

Its truly shocking!  

ola olabiy:

and, for your information, egyptians don't see themselves as africans. and, rightly so, they are ARABS.

Who said the current Egyptians are the same as ancient Egyptians. Egypt has been occupied by different people through the ages. The Arabs are just the current occupiers.

Onlytruth:

I can believe the level of ignorance being paraded without shame by so called Africans here.

Its truly shocking!  

Tell me about it!  

I call it self-hate. They believe everything the Europeans tell them. This is not being Afrocentric, it is about correcting past wrongs.

These same Europeans said Africa had no civilizations. They were refuted. These same Europeans said that Africans could not produce the works of art that can be found in Benin and Ife. They were refuted. They even said that those statues were the remains of the lost continent of Atlantis. Crazy!