Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,151,848 members, 7,813,873 topics. Date: Tuesday, 30 April 2024 at 08:20 PM

Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. - Religion (5) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. (7045 Views)

5 Reasons God Doesn’t Answer Your Prayers / Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked / *~ Joagbaje Voted The Religion Section Poster Of The Year *~ Congratulations!!! (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by 5solas(m): 9:58pm On Aug 30, 2010
chukwudi44:

@Pastor agbaje
why did you think Jesus judged on works as mentioned in matt 25:32-46


I am sure that is what you would like to think, however you are so wrong.
chukwudi44:

Is it not obvious that worsks and faith must go hand in hand to achieve salvation.


No, it is not. Salvation is not attained. It is freely given. It cannot be by grace and works. It is either of grace or of works.  Na Bible de talk am.
Rom.11:6:
‘'And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work’’.
chukwudi44:

St Paul only condemed woks of the mosaic law and not works of charity,any one deceiving himself that simply beleiving in Jesus without anything to show for it will lead to salvation is simply being deceived.Even satan and his angels also beleive in Jesus.


I am so sorry, but you have been deceived. The above is an age-long lie.
Titus 3
''3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life''.

We are not saved by works of righteousness.Tell us what you think is meant by ‘works of righteousness’.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by 5solas(m): 6:46am On Aug 31, 2010
@aletheia

The wonder of justification is that works do not come in. Whether we call them 'works of the law' or 'works of faith'. It doesn't matter where the 'works' are placed, before or after justification.

Good works are the natural response towards God of the justified/saved person.

Rom. 3:31:'' Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law''.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Joagbaje(m): 6:57am On Aug 31, 2010
5solas:

@aletheia

The wonder of justification is that works do not come in. Whether we call them 'works of the law' or 'works of faith'. It doesn't matter where the 'works' are placed, before or after justification.

Good works are the natural response towards God of the justified/saved person.

Rom. 3:31:'' Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law''.

5solas, thank you for this great enlightenment. I think I know where the problem of these guys lie. They see salvation as a gradual process rather than an instantaneous experience. So they believe you get saved when you eventually get to heaven, so you work hard to earn it .
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Joagbaje(m): 6:58am On Aug 31, 2010
^^^^^^^^^^
Altheia and chukwudi what do you think?
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Nobody: 8:37am On Aug 31, 2010
5solas, thank you for this great enlightenment. I think I know where the problem of these guys lie. They see salvation as a gradual process rather than an instantaneous experience. So they believe you get saved when you eventually get to heaven, so you work hard to earn it .


Pastor so you beleive that once you just confess Jesus with your mouth ,then you are already saved ? If that is the case,then no body need bother about going to hell since all we need to do is just to confess Jesus as our lord and personal saviour.

If a pope,bishop,pastor,evangelist lives a very holy life all through hislife and on the last day of his life he dies on top of a woman commiting adultery/fornication he will walk straight to hell fire.On the other hand if an armed robber/rapist who had lived all his life in sin and at the very Point of his death repents of his sin and confesses Jesus as LORD he will be saved.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by nuclearboy(m): 11:58am On Aug 31, 2010
^^^ Even better is to walk into any church, answer the "altar call" and say "Jesus is Lord", then go out and do anything and everything you feel like including the ones you dared not do before. Since you have "confessed", you also then have a right to insist and command God to give you success in crime, conquests with multiple women, a fat bank account and the followership of men.

And of course, your confession has cancelled payment of all debts, physical or spiritual, and you are no more a sinner just because you confessed! shocked Wow!

Lovely form of Christianity, I must say and the reason why such churches are crowded - they believe they can tell God on THAT day it was pastor MOG that said so. embarassed embarassed
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by 5solas(m): 2:01pm On Aug 31, 2010
@Chukwudi44

I believe you are merely chasing shadows. Leave the works that follow justification/salvation for now. What are, 'works of righteousness'.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by 5solas(m): 2:05pm On Aug 31, 2010
@Nuclearboy

What are, 'works of righteousness'?
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Image123(m): 3:34pm On Aug 31, 2010
waoh, you guys have gone far. I had issues with my password but it has been resolved now. I've read through and will reply about next week, sorry, a bit bucy. But Joagbaje you so vain, even the Spirit of God through James says it ahead of me.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by 5solas(m): 4:37pm On Aug 31, 2010
@Image

No name calling,please. No one is denying the need for good works. Welcome back.

Hope to get your answer to my quetion above soon.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by aletheia(m): 4:57pm On Aug 31, 2010
5solas:

@aletheia

The wonder of justification is that works do not come in. Whether we call them 'works of the law' or 'works of faith'. It doesn't matter where the 'works' are placed, before or after justification.

Good works are the natural response towards God of the justified/saved person.

Rom. 3:31:'' Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law''.
^Is the statement highlighted in red above different from what James wrote? Which is what I have being saying all along, but I hope you note how Joagbaje misunderstands your words:

Joagbaje:

5solas, thank you for this great enlightenment. I think I know where the problem of these guys lie. They see salvation as a gradual process rather than an instantaneous experience. So they believe you get saved when you eventually get to heaven, so you work hard to earn it .

Reading through my posts where do you find me stating that one is justified by works:
aletheia:

^If only you would let go of your presuppositions concerning James and really look at the verses I posted; you will see that Phil 2:12 is similar to the other verses.

The confusion arises because we often fail to make the distinction between the "works of the Law" and the "works of faith"- a distinction that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. No man is justified or saved by the works of the Law, but all believers are commanded to bring forth works in keeping with faith. That is what both Paul and James wrote. And if you had completed the quote from Philippians, the full picture emerges:
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by nuclearboy(m): 8:34pm On Aug 31, 2010
@5solas:

Image is not the one calling him "vain". It is the Word of God that said so! If you wish to know what works of righteousness are, take a look at the post by Chukwudi44 which Youngies quoted and said was "MINT"!

@Image:

Easy bro, before they start saying you too are a roforofo fighter. I understand how you feel
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by newmi(m): 8:56pm On Aug 31, 2010
aletheia:

No matter how you phrase it, your question has already been answered several times.


That is not my concern, of what use is a so called answer when there still lies a need for explainations otherwise justify all the name calling, consistent unnecessary aguements etc
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by 5solas(m): 9:20pm On Aug 31, 2010
@Nuclearboy

I am sure you can do better than that. The Bible says we are not saved by the 'works of righteousness' you have just referred to(Ti 3:5). Next 'works of righteousness', please.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by nuclearboy(m): 9:52pm On Aug 31, 2010
^^^ Did you read that post at all?

It says "come into the rest prepared" FOR "when I was hungry, you fed me" etc. Replace FOR with its obvious synonym which is BECAUSE, re-phrase and what you get is - "BECAUSE you fed me when I was hungry, come into the rest prepared for you."

But nobody is saying the work is salvation. what we all are saying is that "Faith in Jesus" makes us to follow those "works of righteousness" and they in return, prove the faith.

If then you do not have those "works", what is the proof you have faith in Him? Show us your faith!

But remember, even demons have what you have which is saying "Jesus is Lord". In fact, they have more than you because you are only saying it whist they KNOW it.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by newmi(m): 10:11pm On Aug 31, 2010
chukwudi44:



Pastor so you beleive that once you just confess Jesus with your mouth ,then you are already saved ? If that is the case,then no body need bother about going to hell since all we need to do is just to confess Jesus as our lord and personal saviour.

If a pope,bishop,pastor,evangelist lives a very holy life all through hislife and on the last day of his life he dies on top of a woman commiting adultery/fornication he will walk straight to hell fire.On the other hand if an armed robber/despoiler who had lived all his life in sin and at the very Point of his death repents of his sin and confesses Jesus as LORD he will be saved.


My dear l kindly have just one question for you which is; in your entire christian walk with God, have you ever come across this verses of scriptures in Romans 10:9-10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


the wordens of these verses above seem to present to me what obviously looks like a blue print for "obtaining salvation".

The problem with man is that he always wants to feel like he should earn almost everything he gets from even God, that is religion- self-reghteouness but where then is the gift of God's grace.

The salvation in context here is that from dead works and separation from God and all thats required is
1. believe in your heart
2. confess what you believe as a demonstration of your convictions in the authenticity of the Lordship of Jesus Christ,     that is your conviction in who He says He is and what He says He has done especially on the cross of calvary, if He says that through His blood on the cross, all your sins have being washed alway thus you don't have to strive in your effort to try to get them paid for rather you simply just accept it then all you do is accept how by faith and confess  your convictions then you activate the contract.
3. ", shall be saved, "
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by 5solas(m): 10:17pm On Aug 31, 2010
@Nuclearboy

You have not answered my question at all. My question remains,'what are works of righteousness?'. An explanation at least was called for. While I am still waiting for it , let me assure that I have responded to that passage at least three times and hence I am conversant with what you are saying.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Joagbaje(m): 10:17pm On Aug 31, 2010
Image123

Image123:

. But Joagbaje you so vain, even the Spirit of God through James says it ahead of me.

James 2:20  [color=#006600]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,[/color]

This malignment of yours is uncalled for. I believe in works of faith.I have quoted the scripture in other posts. But for salvation, it is by faith only. You have to be righteous to produce fruits of righteousness. You don't produce fruits of righteousness to attain righteousness. Justification, salvation is by faith only. You can't be justified by works, or saved by works. I'm not against James as a person. I'm not against his book. I acknowledge several times that James had great principles. Which I believe in. But justification and salvation? You should follow Paul.

Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us;
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by nuclearboy(m): 10:29pm On Aug 31, 2010
@5solas:

Now I'm confused.

If you ask me what brings salvation, I'll point you to the Word of God and believe you have your answer there. But having done that here, you are telling me its not enough and you wish an explanation. For what again?

Maybe if you clarify what exactly it is you want!
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by newmi(m): 10:34pm On Aug 31, 2010
perhas l should also note some important and interesting facts from this verse Romans 10:9 viz:
1. we are not told to perform the confession with our hearts rather we are told to CONFESS WITH OUR MOUTH
so that means there is a talking that takes place not like what most people say ", em its in my heart and God knows my heart, "

2. we are also told what to confess. He didn't say confess your sins rather he says confess
    i. the Lordship of Jesus Christ
    ii. the authenticity of the reality of His resurrection from the dead.

why? Because not all men would believe and agree and even of many do, not all would be bold enough to declare their hearts convictions as a of the witness the strength of their believe (heart) which nobody can see.

see alot of people make the mistake by saying that ", em anyway sha God knows my heart and that is all that matters, ", fah fah fowl !!!
sure God knows your heart em no doubt but that is God and God is in heaven but you are on earth and on the earth we have men who do not have such previlleges and abilities but are only retricted to all their 5 senses can relate with thus Jesus said ", by their fruits we shall know them, " also the scripture says ", let your light so shine before MEN that they may see your good works and glorify your father which is in heaven, "

in as much as we don't feed on peoples judgements and opinions of us and that the testimony and record of God is greater, God is interested in getting glory from them which can only happen when your light [i]SO[/i] shines for them to see.

thus it is not enough to believe with the heart, CONFESSION with the mouth is vital. I have never seen or heard couples at a wedding or marriage ceremony making their vows of commitments in silence perhaps just gesturing in a nod of the head to insinuate acceptance as much as they are not oblivious of the love they both share.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by aletheia(m): 11:33pm On Aug 31, 2010
^^^Sorry, but you cannot take one part of scripture and neglect the rest.
What do you make of these scriptures then?
Revelation 2:1-2, 5. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

When you read the letters from Jesus to the seven churches you will find that phrase repeated in all: I know thy works.

Again and again, it must be reiterated that true faith is proven by it's works. That is the clear teaching of scripture.

That one says the faith leads to works of righteousness is not the same as saying one is saved by self-righteous works. We are justified because God imputes to us the righteousness of Jesus; we are saved and cleansed by His Blood. And if truly we are saved then the evidence will be seen in our lives by our "Works."

Oft times we quote Eph2:8,9 while overlooking verse 10 which follows:

KJV: Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
^God has ordained good works for those who believe to walk in. Simple. These good works are what points out to others that these are true Christians.

KJV: Phil 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

KJV: Titus 2:14. Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

KJV: Titus 3:5-8.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by 5solas(m): 12:24am On Sep 01, 2010
@Aletheai

Indeed you have always said works are the fruits of faith.

But can faith alone justify/save a person?

What does The Bible say in the books of Romans and Galatians?

Do the 'works of righteousness' contribute to our justification? What are 'works of righteousness' in the first place?
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Nobody: 7:45am On Sep 01, 2010
What are 'works of righteousness' in the first place?
I have answered this questions several times,it is either you are blind or being mischievious.

I am quoting from the great Lord and Master himself and not even from any of his didciples.

matt:25;32-46

Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33. and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35. for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36. I was unclothed and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37. Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38. And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or unclothed and clothe thee? 39. And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' 40. And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' 41. Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42. for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43. I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, unclothed and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44. Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or unclothed or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45. Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46. And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Revised Standard Version
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by ttalks(m): 7:57am On Sep 01, 2010
5solas:

@Aletheai

Indeed you have always said works are the fruits of faith.

But can faith alone justify/save a person?

What does The Bible say in the books of Romans and Galatians?

Do the 'works of righteousness' contribute to our justification? What are 'works of righteousness' in the first place?

Forget about if this post was directed at Alethea.

It's really annoying that some things are so clearly explained and some people choose not to see these explanations for what they are.
Faith is what justifies a person.
But the simple fact is a person can only be said to have faith if he produces good works.
So, if he has good works,he has faith; therefore is justified.

The verses(matthew 25:32-46) which chukwudi has been posting about Jesus's judgment are very clear.
Jesus is using the same principle that he left for us - by their fruits you shall know them.
He is letting the people know that because they did those good works,he knows they have/had faith, so therefore, gives them their reward.

So also,he is letting the other people know that because they didn't do those good works,he knows they did not/do not have faith,so therefore,gives them what is fitting.

Anyone can claim to have faith in Christ,but those are only empty statements before God and man unless they are proved by the works we do.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Enigma(m): 8:15am On Sep 01, 2010
Matthew 7

18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21[b]"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven[/b].

22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Let those here boasting (being deluded anyway) --- "I cast out demons", "I perform miracles", "Pastor Chris performs miracles" read verse 22 above and seriously beware.

Let all of us who do indeed believe in justification by faith beware.

On topic, the example used by Jesus of a good tree bearing good fruit and a bad tree bearing bad fruit shows that the apostle James was right that if a person's good works are nowhere to be seen, we cannot really say that person has been justified by faith in the first place!
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Joagbaje(m): 8:32am On Sep 01, 2010
Some of you meant well, but if you don't understand the message of Paul , you will have the gospel messed up. Your theology will be upside down.

Understading The doctrine of salvation is the major problem here. I'm sure will shall have harmony on several issues if we fine-tune this soteriology issue.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Enigma(m): 8:38am On Sep 01, 2010
Isolating verse 20 from the Matthew 7 above
20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

We know the teachings of Jesus, his focus on the poor, his own very simple and non-material lifestyle and his fruit which includes endless giving --- of his own life and, after his resurrection, of the Holy Spirit. We know the fruit of the Holy Spirit including specifically temperance.

When we see some fathead GO/Papa/Pastor flying private jets with congregation's money, that would not seem to be the good fruit of which Jesus speaks; it is not also showing the Holy Spirit fruit of temperance. It is the fruit of mammon. Thus, if 'by their fruit you shall know them', we can ask if such a GO/Papa/Pastor is "saved" or justified by faith in the first place.

Remember Jesus said that just saying Lord Lord is not enough ---  but doing the Father's will. Let a person of intelligence, good conscience and a renewed mind tell us that buying a private jet when a vast portion of your congregation is poor is "doing the Father's will".

When the doctrine of a so-called "Pastor" (here I specifically have in mind the jerry curled charlatan)  is such that his mug followers go and steal large sums of money and do 419 and then bring the money to his "church" and he says he has no duty to return the stolen/419 money even as a "Christian" let alone as a "pastor" ------ then the fruit of the "pastor" is not the fruit of Jesus or the Holy Spirit but the fruit of mammon.

Remember Jesus said that just saying Lord Lord is not enough ---  but doing the Father's will. Let a person of intelligence, good conscience and a renewed mind tell us that stealing and 419 and supporting stealing/419 by not returning stolen/419 money is "doing the Father's will".
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Enigma(m): 8:42am On Sep 01, 2010
Joagbaje:

Some of you meant well, but if you don't understand the message of Paul , you will have the gospel messed up. Your theology will be upside down.

Understading The doctrine of salvation is the major problem here. I'm sure will shall have harmony on several issues if we fine-tune this soteriology issue.

Just go and sit down. Your own theology is "pick and choose" i.e. pick and choose what appeals to your flesh. Is it not the same Paul that you said was wrong for not supporting stealing by fleecing the flock?

Deal with what Jesus Himself said in Matthew 7 as I quoted two posts or so above.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Joagbaje(m): 9:12am On Sep 01, 2010
Altheia

aletheia:

^^^Sorry, but you cannot take one part of scripture and neglect the rest.
What do you make of these scriptures then?
Revelation 2:1-2, 5. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

When you read the letters from Jesus to the seven churches you will find that phrase repeated in all: I know thy works.

Again and again, it must be reiterated that true faith is proven by it's works.  That is the clear teaching of scripture.

Altheia, no one is against works. 

John 9:4
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

That one says the faith leads to works of righteousness is not the same as saying one is saved by self-righteous works. We are justified because God imputes to us the righteousness of Jesus; we are saved and cleansed by His Blood. And if truly we are saved then the evidence will be seen in our lives by our "Works." 

Oft times we quote Eph2:8,9 while overlooking verse 10 which follows:

KJV: Ephesians  2:8-10
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
^God has ordained good works for those who believe to walk in. Simple. These good works are what points out to others that these are true Christians.

You are absolutely correct.

KJV: Phil 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

KJV: Titus 2:14. Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

KJV: Titus 3:5-8.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


A Christian is ordained to produce works . Which are fruits of righteousness.  But the issue is, he has to be a Christian first!. He has to be born again first! If not , his works of righteousness is vain. That is the problem is James writing . A man is saved when he confess the lordship of Jesus over his life by faith . Work or no work. After he has been saved, he begins to know the will of God and produce works in his service unto God. He is saved already before his works can be acceptable. But James says the work will save and justifies a man! That is wrong. Faith only saves and justifies. It is an instantaneous experience. It is not in heaven we will get saved. Look at the three thousands that got saved on Pentecost day. It was instant.

Acts 2:41
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added[ unto them] about three thousand souls.


The moment a man confesses Jesus as lord of his life, and invite him in. He is genuinely saved.

Romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Scriptures are clear on this . Look at verse 13.

Romans 10:13
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Joagbaje(m): 9:24am On Sep 01, 2010
Enigma,
You're bringing another issue here , when you've not address issue on ground. A G.O may go to hell if he backslides and walks out of the grace of God. That is not anybodys business . It's between him and his God. If that happens , it doesn't mean the guy was never saved. He fell out maybe through etc. The fact that someone gets saved does not mean he will remain so. If he denies christ. He ceases to be a Christian. But that doesn't mean he was never saved. He lost his salvation

But we are dealing with the issue of a man being saved by works. This is false doctrine. A man is saved by faith and he begins to produce good works. An unsaved man could produce good works but it will not earn him salvation. There is nothing a natural man will offer God that will be accepted until he gives his heart to God first.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by Joagbaje(m): 9:31am On Sep 01, 2010
@ Enigma, Altheia,

Maybe I should just ask you this; At what point does a man get saved.
Re: Joagbaje, Come And Answer Your Paul James Query. by ttalks(m): 9:34am On Sep 01, 2010
James 2:14-26(AMP)
(14)  What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
(15)  If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
(16)  And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
(17)  So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
(18)  But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
(19)  You believe that God is one; you do well. So do the demons believe and shudder [in terror and horror such as make a man's hair stand on end and contract the surface of his skin]!
(20)  Are you willing to be shown [proof], you foolish (unproductive, spiritually deficient) fellow, that faith apart from [good] works is inactive and ineffective and worthless?
(21)  Was not our forefather Abraham [shown to be] justified (made acceptable to God) by [his] works when he brought to the altar as an offering his [own] son Isaac? [Gen. 22:1-14.]
(22)  You see that [his] faith was cooperating with his works, and [his] faith was completed and reached its supreme expression [when he implemented it] by [good] works.
(23)  And [so] the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed in (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on) God, and this was accounted to him as righteousness (as conformity to God's will in thought and deed), and he was called God's friend. [Gen. 15:6; II Chron. 20:7; Isa. 41:8.]
(24)  You see that a man is justified (pronounced righteous before God) through what he does and not alone through faith [through works of obedience as well as by what he believes].
(25)  So also with Rahab the harlot--was she not shown to be justified (pronounced righteous before God) by [good] deeds when she took in the scouts (spies) and sent them away by a different route? [Josh. 2:1-21.]
(26)  For as the human body apart from the spirit is lifeless, so faith apart from [its] works of obedience is also dead.


joagbaje, read James' writing very well without the bias you have acquired. Balance it with all the other scriptures.
James has no problem in anything he wrote; everything is in proper balance with the teachings of Jesus Christ and that of the apostles,Paul inclusive.

N/B: Verse 17 in the verses above should help in making this very clear. Faith without its evidence of works is dead/useless; that is equal to not having faith at all.Simple as anything can be.

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (Reply)

How Well Do You Know The Scriptures? / Even The Lawful Captive Shall Be Delivered / The Christian Legacy Of Smartphones

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 123
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.