Obi1kenobi:


Go ahead then. I'm waiting.

German and Dutch, Danish and Swedish, Flemish and Dutch and all the languages around this area are highly mutually intelligible; Belarusian and Russian and Ukrainian and all Slavic languages to some extent, Portuguese and Spanish have high intelligibility rate and all the Romance languages have some good mutual intelligibility rate. If you had used the Chinese as an instance, you would have made a good point but the example you used contradicted your point

Perkins2018:


Until you can tell me why igbos are differentiated in Anioma land and Igbos are not differentiated in Anambra or imo, I will continue to see you as the fool you are.

You are a bigger fool. You can't come out with facts or prove to refute the claims made.

Perkins2018:


Which claim? You are the one to refute the claim. Why are there Igbo quarters in anioma land and not in other igbo land? Answer that or STFU

Asking questions to answer another question whereas report before hasn't be refuted. SMH. This question of yours isn't logical at all. No relationship with what Op raised. If you claim that you are not igbos why not come up with reasonable prove instead of using residential place to depict a tribe? Refute our claims on dressing, language, names of places, names of towns, names of festival, names of market days then you would be taken serious.

nineone:
German and Dutch, Danish and Swedish, Flemish and Dutch and all the languages around this area are highly mutually intelligible; Belarusian and Russian and Ukrainian and all Slavic languages to some extent, Portuguese and Spanish have high intelligibility rate and all the Romance languages have some good mutual intelligibility rate. If you had used the Chinese as an instance, you would have made a good point but the example you used contradicted your point

German and Dutch are not "mutually intelligible". They just come from the same Germanic languages family. It's like saying Yoruba and Bini are mutually intelligible. Danish and Swedish (and Norwegian) are though, but hundreds of years of history and geographic realities have forged distinct identities for each group.
Russian and Ukrainian are from the same language family, but they are not mutually intelligible, though sharing common words. If you're a Russian from St.Petersburg who has never been to Ukraine and you landed in Kyiv, you would barely understand native speakers.
These are very large groups of people with ancient histories that have spurred the distinctiveness you see today. Ethnic Russians or Ukrainians are large language groups. It's not the same thing as Isoko people asserting a different identity from Urhobo people. I want to know the basis of saying Isokos are different from Urhobos, and not just a slightly different sub-group of Urhobos. Simply saying so isn't a reason. Why are they a different group?

Osagyefo98:
This rubbish that was started by one aba boy that has no good road in abia state should stop...


Ndokwa, aniocha, asaba are not igbos.

So tell us what they are since they speak Igbo as their ancestral language and have Igbo surnames

gidgiddy:


So tell us what they are since they speak Igbo as their ancestral language and have Igbo surnames

Don't be blinded by emotions....they are not igbos.

Obi1kenobi:


Give me one good reason why Isokos are not Urhobo.

I'm isoko .... If you are neither isoko nor urhobo it would be unwise to run into hasty genaralization

darfay:



I'm isoko .... If you are neither isoko nor urhobo it would be unwise to run into hasty genaralization

Which is why I have asked to know what is so different about Isoko people that makes them a different ethnicity, rather than just a sub-group or clan within the Urhobo nation. Educate me. I'm listening.

Obi1kenobi:


German and Dutch are not "mutually intelligible". They just come from the same Germanic languages family. It's like saying Yoruba and Bini are mutually intelligible. Danish and Swedish (and Norwegian) are though, but hundreds of years of history and geographic realities have forged distinct identities for each group.
Russian and Ukrainian are from the same language family, but they are not mutually intelligible, though sharing common words. If you're a Russian from St.Petersburg who has never been to Ukraine and you landed in Kyiv, you would barely understand native speakers.
These are very large groups of people with ancient histories that have spurred the distinctiveness you see today. Ethnic Russians or Ukrainians are large language groups. It's not the same thing as Isoko people asserting a different identity from Urhobo people. I want to know the basis of saying Isokos are different from Urhobos, and not just a slightly different sub-group of Urhobos. Simply saying so isn't a reason. Why are they a different group?

although you admitted to one of my examples being intelligible yet classified as different languages but tried to justify the 'fragmentation' on hundreds of years of history and geographical realities although can you tell me the intelligible rates of the languages you claim are not intelligible? What rate of comprehensibility should two languages have before they can be termed intelligible?
What is the most important factor in the classification of languages and dialects? What is the most important factor in classification of two very close languages as separate languages instead of one as a dialect of the other language? Do you think it's intelligibility?

And you think the political, historical and geographical realities you think existed in that area is absent in our Anioma?

And why did you get fixated on Ukrainian and Russian and ignored the Belarusian and Russian example? And you think Ukrainian and Russian similarities can be compared to Yoruba and Bini similarities? What happened to all the other examples you ignore?

I'll check out the intelligibility rate of these languages maybe from ethnologue or any credible sources. I have a very basic understanding of most of these languages and you can't come here to try to deceive me

nineone:
although you admitted to one of my examples being intelligible yet classified as different languages but tried to justify the 'fragmentation' on hundreds of years of history and geographical realities although can you tell me the intelligible rates of the languages you claim are not intelligible? What rate of comprehensibility should two languages have before they can be termed intelligible?
What is the most important factor in the classification of languages and dialects? What is the most important factor in classification of two very close languages as separate languages instead of one as a dialect of the other language? Do you think it's intelligibility?

And you think the political, historical and geographical realities you think existed in that area is absent in our Anioma?

And why did you get fixated on Ukrainian and Russian and ignored the Belarusian and Russian example? And you think Ukrainian and Russian similarities can be compared to Yoruba and Bini similarities? What happened to all the other examples you ignore?

Fixated? Pouring out too many examples of your claim would make me focus on a few to conserve time. I don't intend to get into every example.
What you're comparing with these nationalities is not comparable with my contention about Urhobo and Isoko people. You're comparing large ethnicities who have their own nation states with Isokos. Russia is a nation state of 140 million people (not including tens of millions of ethnic Russians in ex-Soviet territories). Ukraine is a nation state of over 40 million people. The point here is that for a small group of people like Isokos, are there really enough distinctions to claim that they are a separate ethnicity from Urhobos. On what basis would such a claim rest. I have asked this several times and gotten no answers. And it is not all about mutual intelligibility of language. It's also about geography. And history. And culture in general. It's not as if Isokos are Urhobo cousins in far-away Kwara - like Itsekiris that split from their Yoruba kin. How can you have 2 very similar cultures with shared ancestry and language that are geographically contiguous, and yet claim that one group is a distinct ethnicity from the other.

I'll check out the intelligibility rate of these languages maybe from ethnologue or any credible sources. I have a very basic understanding of most of these languages and you can't come here to try to deceive me

Who is trying to "deceive" you and how? You can dispute what you wish. Stop being so dramatic.

Obi1kenobi:


Fixated? Pouring out too many examples of your claim would make me focus on a few to conserve time. I don't intend to get into every example.
What you're comparing with these nationalities is not comparable with my contention about Urhobo and Isoko people. You're comparing large ethnicities who have their own nation states with Isokos. Russia is a nation state of 140 million people (not including tens of millions of ethnic Russians in ex-Soviet territories). Ukraine is a nation state of over 40 million people. The point here is that for a small group of people like Isokos, are there really enough distinctions to claim that they are a separate ethnicity from Urhobos. On what basis would such a claim rest. I have asked this several times and gotten no answers. And it is not all about mutual intelligibility of language. It's also about geography. And history. And culture in general. It's not as if Isokos are Urhobo cousins in far-away Kwara - like Itsekiris that split from their Yoruba kin. How can you have 2 very similar cultures with shared ancestry and language that are geographically contiguous, and yet claim that one group is a distinct ethnicity from the other.



Who is trying to "deceive" you and how? You can dispute what you wish. Stop being so dramatic.

I don't like people that don't answer straight forward questions as it's asked. So the chief factor of classification of languages and dialects is population or landmass? Please reread my questions and provide answers. From what you just wrote here, it seems you're trying to hing everything on population and landmass. And does all the other places mentioned have this high population and large landmass?

nineone:
I don't like people that don't answer straight forward questions as it's asked. So the chief factor of classification of languages and dialects is population or landmass? Please reread my questions and provide answers. From what you just wrote here, it seems you're trying to hing everything on population and landmass. And does all the other places mentioned have this high population and large landmass?

Your question is not "straight forward". If you think it is, you don't understand your own question. I'm not here to write a dissertation on all that has to be factored in ethnic classifications. That would obviously involve a multivariate analysis of language, culture, history, geography etc which I don't intend to spend a Saturday on. My own question is more straight forward: what is it about Isokos that makes them a distinct ethnic group from Urhobos rather than just a sub-group or clan of Urhobos (the way Ijebus or Egbas or Okuns or Aworis etc are Yoruba clans with their differences, but all part of the Yoruba nation)? The answer to this should be much narrower than what you're asking me.

Obi1kenobi:


Which is why I have asked to know what is so different about Isoko people that makes them a different ethnicity, rather than just a sub-group or clan within thle Urhobo nation. Educate me. I'm listening.

First isoko is not a clan or subgroup within the urhobo ethnic nationality. Urhobo is made up of 23 kingdoms and isoko is not one of them, so how are they a subgroup abi is that what they told you

gidgiddy:


So tell us what they are since they speak Igbo as their ancestral language and have Igbo surnames

If this is the basis of ur argument, then it is lame.

Obi1kenobi:


Your question is not "straight forward". If you think it is, you don't understand your own question. I'm not here to write a dissertation on all that has to be factored in ethnic classifications. That would obviously involve a multivariate analysis of language, culture, history, geography etc which I don't intend to spend a Saturday on. My own question is more straight forward: what is it about Isokos that makes them a distinct ethnic group from Urhobos rather than just a sub-group or clan of Urhobos (the way Ijebus or Egbas or Okuns or Aworis etc are Yoruba clans with their differences, but all part of the Yoruba nation)? The answer to this should be much narrower than what you're asking me.

Your question is lame. Why do you keep turning the table? Isoko says they are Isoko and not Urhobo and you claim they are same as Urhobo. The burden of proof lies with you. You actually tried to provide proof but when your arguments were punctured with superior arguments because they're dumb in the first place, you turned around and claimed Isoko should proof their difference. This is just like falsely accusing someone of being a thief, you tried to manufacture some, when your concocted proofs were exposed for what they are, you turned around and demand the person proof he's not a thief. If you're serious about this argument, go back and address my questions. Stop running back and forth

Osagyefo98:




If this is the basis of ur argument, then it is lame.

Really? So a person who speaks Igbo as his ancestral language and has an Igbo surname is not the basis of being Igbo?

What makes a person Igbo then?

gidgiddy:


Really? So a person who speaks Igbo as his ancestral language and has an Igbo surname is not the basis of being Igbo?

What makes a person Igbo then?

surname? Do you know that 90% of Ika people have non Igbo surnames of which about 50% are Edo surnames?

nineone:
surname? Do you know that 90% of Ika people have non Igbo surnames of which about 50% are Edo surnames?

OK they are edos not igbos....we agree even before now.
Case closed.

nineone:
surname? Do you know that 90% of Ika people have non Igbo surnames of which about 50% are Edo surnames?

So the remaining 10% that have Igbo surname who are they?

Turantula:

So the remaining 10% that have Igbo surname who are they?

you should answer that. You guys are just so amusing. Why don't you accept the fact that you goofed big time making reference to surnames which are highly defined. In terms of language, it's highly debatable and I'm not ready to go into that with you except I'm convinced you have some idea what a language is

husbandsnatcha:
Tinubu's wife remi dat is bashing igbos is from itshekiri ,she is so shameless to hide her heritage

And Itshekiris are not Yorubas but Igbos? You are sick. Very sick.

Mosesm:


And Itshekiris are not Yorubas but Igbos? You are sick. Very sick.

God forbid ,itshekiri can never be igbo or nigerd
tufiakwa tufiakwa
dey shud join yoruba

nineone:
surname? Do you know that 90% of Ika people have non Igbo surnames of which about 50% are Edo surnames?

Even the king of the Ika people, Benjamin Ikenchuku Keagborekuzi, has an Igbo name. Well known Ika people such CBN Governor, Godwin Emiefele and This Day publisher, Nduka Obiagbena have Igbo names. Even the current Governor of Delta state, Ifeanyi Okowa, is an Ika man with an Igbo name.

Most people in the Anioma group trace their ancestry from the Ezechima clan. Ezechima was not a Benin man to the best of my knowledge but he did spend some time in Benin kingdom.

gidgiddy:


Even the king of the Ika people, Benjamin Ikenchuku Keagborekuzi, has an Igbo name. Well known Ika people such CBN Governor, Godwin Emiefele and This Day publisher, Nduka Obiagbena have Igbo names. Even the current Governor of Delta state, Ifeanyi Okowa, is an Ika man with an Igbo name.

why are you guys like this? How is Emefiele an Igbo name? Obaigbena is a surname. And when did I tell you no Ika person bears Igbo surname?

JAWBONE:
Most people in the Anioma group trace their ancestry from the Ezechima clan. Ezechima was not a Benin man to the best of my knowledge but he did spend some time in Benin kingdom.

Ezechime's descendants said he's from Benin but where he's from is not my business. But what do you mean by MOST people in the Anioma group tracing their ancestry yo Ezechime? Why are you guys so ignorant? Do you even know anything about Anioma?

nineone:
why are you guys like this? How is Emefiele an Igbo name? Obaigbena is a surname. And when did I tell you no Ika person bears Igbo surname?

lol...i really dont care if ika is igbo or china but emefiele is a hardcore igbo name

nineone:
why are you guys like this? How is Emefiele an Igbo name? Obaigbena is a surname. And when did I tell you no Ika person bears Igbo surname?

Please explain to me why the king of the Ika people, Ikenchuku Keagborekuzi has an Igbo surname? This young man inherited the throne from his forefathers, who are meant to be Edo, but he has the name "Ikenchuku Keagborekuzi", both of which are Igbo

Our Igbo origin has never been in doubt before and after Civil War. Anioma people were known as Western Igbos before the Amalgamation of Nigeria in 1914. And in 1939, the Obi of Agbor, Obi of Idumuje-Ugboko and the Obi of Aboh, for themselves and the entire Western Igbo people, petitioned the Colonial Administration for carving out the Western Igbos from their Kits and Kins East of the Niger. Consequently, in 1956, Western Igbo leaders organized the AMA1 conferences where it was resolved that the answer to the political problems of the Western Igbos was to create a West Niger Igbo State with the Headquarters at ALIDINMA. The agitation for the creation of the West Niger Igbo State assumed the name ANIOMA after the civil war.

Have you always been your brothers-keeper or is this a sudden self-centered desperation in order to gain the support of the South Easterners in your pursuit of Anioma State creation?

I think with this, your extreme question that boarders on self assessment, it is pertinent at this point to look back and critically outline the roles of the Delta Igbo’s during the most critical period in the life and history of our brothers across the Niger.

A significant officers and men of Midwestern origin-Delta-Igbos fought on the side of the Biafran Army. Col. Mike Ndukwe Okweuechime, to start with was the Chief of Linguistics, Defence headquarters, Biafran Army till the end of the civil war on January 12, 1970. Navy Commander Frank Anukwu from Ika was in charge of Biafran Navy till the end of the war. Brigadier Nwawo from Aniocha North was General Officer who commanded 4 Command (Special) Division of Biafran Army. Col. Joe Achuzie from Oshimili South was General Officer Commanding (GOC) 16 division.

Late Col. B.S.A. Nwajei from Oshimili North was at a time, the Commander 14 division. Col. Ochei from Oshimili South was Commandant of School of Infantry Biafran Army. Col. Morah and Col. Henry Igboba from Aniocha North and Oshimili North, respectively fought gallantly for the survicval of Igbo people during the war. Late Major Albert Okonkwo from Oshimili North was the Administrator of the defunct Republic of Biafra Mr. George Nwanze from Oshimili North was the secretary to Odumegwu Ojukwu, Head of State defunct Republic of Biafra, to mention but a few. It is important to mention that the above top military Officers and highly respected men of substance from the then Midwestern region, did not fight as mercenaries. I want to state that as a matter of historical fact, I too fought gallantly on the side of Biafra. In fact, I came back from my studies in oversea and was confronted with the war, as Igbo people were been slaughtered all across the North, we had to ran from Jos to Ibusa where I joined Force with the Biafran Army.

Most importantly, it should not be forgotten that late Chukwuma Nzeogwu of Okpanam in Oshimili North died at Oboleke fighting on the side of Biafran Army. It is paramount to mention that late Col. Okonweze from Asaba was killed at Abeokuta during the counter Coup of July 29, 1966. Late Col. Henry Igboba from Ibusa suffered the same fate in Benin City in 1967. Late Mr. Ogwude from Ogwashiuku, a Parmanent Secretary was killed in Benin City the same 1967. The Benin City, Sapele Warri, Isheagu, Ogwashiuku and Ogbeke-Asaba massacres, to mention but a few, were reprisals against Ndigbo on both sides of the Niger Ndigbo east and west of the Niger shared a common fate during the Civil War as a direct consequence of the January 1966 Military Coup which was purportedly described as Igbo Coup.

Don’t you think Igbo delta People not just those across the Niger, but those in River State etc have not been receiving their own share of respect and acceptance that prompted Okwuechime to voice out his frustration?

The truth is that Ohaneze Ndigbo and the World Igbo Assembly (IWA) has created solid sense of belonging everywhere Igbo people reside. To buttress this fact, the brotherly relationship between Igbo South East and Anioma people is based on mutual love and respect manifesting in the election of Late Ogbueshi Dr. J.B. Azinge of Asaba as Deputy president General of Ohaneze Ndigbo before the tenure of Col. Joe Achuzia as Secretary General. The incumbent President General of Ohaneze Ndigbo is his Excellency Ambassador Raph Uwaechue of Ogwashi-Uka in Aniocha South of Delta State.

As it stands now what is the most important or if I may ask critical support the delta Igbo people need from their brothers across the Niger?

Very good! Very good question. I wanted to make the appeal even if you did not come up with the question. We want our brothers to see reason why they should come together to support Anioma State as the Sixth State to be carved out for the Igbo nation. Justice equity and fair-play demands this, the reason being in a memorandum signed by Chief Sam O. Mbakwe, Chief C.C. Onoh, Dr. Okigbo, Chief S.G. Ikoku to mention among others, that was forwarded to the then President and Commander-in-Chief, President Ibrahim Babangida and to all members of Armed forces Ruling Council, as was published (bring out document to quote date and paper) on Daily Times of Wednesday, April 17, 1991, on page 17. These great Igbo leaders after many years of Deliberation and consultation all across Igbo land jointly requested for the creation of Enugu or Wawa state from Amambra, Abia out of the old Imo and Anioma from old Bendel State.

It is on record that Enugu and Abia has sealed through, so as you can see justice equity and fair-play demands that the next state to be carved out for ndigbo should be Anioma State.

https://www.nairaland.com/3963902/anioma-igbo-origin-not-doubt