tensor777:

I was hoping that you would not derail this thread with your maniacal conspiracy theories. However Nigeria is already progressing being a recognized emerging market economy and having one of the world's fastest growing economies.
Even if it is not progressing, for the sake of argument, how does that affect you personally? After all there are so many countries to live in that are already fully developed if you are thus minded.

cap28:

are you insane
which maniacal conspiracy theories
are you so dumb that you cant see nigeria is in a downward spiral, are you so delusional that you cant see that we have been in a downward economic spiral since the early 70s, are you aware that  nigeria's kleptocrats squandered THREE HUNDRED BILLION USD from nigeria's treasury IN LESS THAN 3 DECADES ?? IS THAT YOUR IDEA OF PROGRESS

My only criticism of Fela is that the people he died for were not worth the trouble, 13 years after his death we are still in the same shi.t state that we have been in and yet there are some dummies still delusional enough to think that things will actually get better with these kleptocrats in charge, words fail me here honestly

DapoBear:

I don't give a damn about these other developed countries, I want one for my people, the Yoruba. They are to whom my loyalty lies, and who I want to see succeeding.
You are probably right. But I'm hoping that there is a way to break up the country without war.Lol, nonsense posted by another guy with his head in the clouds. "Emerging market economy", "fastest growing economies",  whose belly does those empty words fill? Get that garbage out of here, the country is a disaster. 20 years ago no light in the country, same today. 20 years ago, no progress, same today.

DapoBear:

I don't give a damn about these other developed countries, I want one for my people, the Yoruba. They are to whom my loyalty lies, and who I want to see succeeding.
You are probably right. But I'm hoping that there is a way to break up the country without war.Lol, nonsense posted by another guy with his head in the clouds. "Emerging market economy", "fastest growing economies",  whose belly does those empty words fill? Get that garbage out of here, the country is a disaster. 20 years ago no light in the country, same today. 20 years ago, no progress, same today.

cap28:

can you imagine this tensor777!!!!!
this is why we will continue to suffer, if we want freedom we have to fight for it, as i have said in the past no people become free through prayer, every nation that is free today fought for it, why didnt the russians get down on their knees and pray for freedom when the nazis started annexing their territory, why didnt the vietnamese sit down and pray for freedom when the americans started bombing vietnamese men women and children with napalm and white phosphorous.
emerging economies my arse - emerging for whom, who are the beneficiaries of the capitalist free market model - africans or europeans??

tensor777:

But it is a mark of insanity to keep up with these one size fits all conspiracy theories especially as in this case Nigeria has had 50 years of independence and is a recognized, respected player on the world stage.
As for your figures again you are talking nonsense. After all the current federal budget is just $30 billion with $5 billion for capital development. So how did you  come about the $10 billion per annum figure?

cap28:

can you imagine this tensor777!!!!!
this is why we will continue to suffer, if we want freedom we have to fight for it, as i have said in the past no people become free through prayer, every nation that is free today fought for it, why didnt the russians get down on their knees and pray for freedom when the nazis started annexing their territory, why didnt the vietnamese sit down and pray for freedom when the americans started bombing vietnamese men women and children with napalm and white phosphorous.

emerging economies my arse - emerging for whom, who are the beneficiaries of the capitalist free market model - africans or europeans??

cap28:

Your naivite is beyond embarrassing!!!!
Nigeria is a recognised respected player according to who are you blind??

DapoBear:

Tensor is a just a weird sort of dude. He is a Nigerian who hasn't been to Nigeria, somehow doesn't listen to what his parents or Nigerian friends tell him. Hrm, or maybe he is just the children of billionaires. So all of this "emerging market" hooey is actually real for him, lol.
Either he has never seen poverty or suffering in Nigeria, or closes his eyes whenever he comes across it. "Emerging free market", lol.

tensor777:

And what economic model do you propose that would enable Nigeria to be "developed" if that matters at the end of the day.
Communism? No way because even if you are soft on Castro you should be able to see that it is a moribund, hopelessly inefficient way of organizing an economy.
So yes, the free market system is here to stay which implies free trade and foreign direct investment and certainly not protectionism or government run enterprises.

vangogh:

Fela was a great man without a shadow of doubt. His music speaks of injustice meted out to Nigerians by military dictators.
There is no doubt Fela would support Biafra's cause given the disposition of Fela to injustice.
Truth is the march westward by Biafra was a military strategy that backfired. It was an attempt to surprise the Nigerian army at its perceived weakest link.

vangogh:

For those who say Ojukwu was trying to liberate Yoruba, how logical does that sound? Biafra was under serious invasion from the East , in fact, some Eastern cities had already fallen during the first month of the war.  Given the fact Biafra house was already on fire, what sense would it make for Ojukwu to abandon his own house  (Biafra) that was on fire and attempt to rescue the MW and SW that were not on fire?
Truth is the march westward by Biafra was a military strategy that backfired. It was an attempt to surprise the Nigerian army at its perceived weakest link.

tensor777:

And what physical military adversary does Nigeria face? I am not aware that a state of war exists in Nigeria?
However the weapons of our(children of God) warfare are not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds, casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge God.
In that wise Nigeria has been lucky to have very great men of God like Adeboye Idahosa and Olukoya whose prayers have pulled down evil strongholds and transformed  lives.,
That is certainly not the case for the likes of Fela who has always been associated with negativism and pessimism.

cap28:

The real war we face in nigeria is actually a war between the hausa fulani oligarchs and some southern traitors who have been co opted into this kleptocracy versus the ordinary nigerian man on the street irrespective of ethnicity. 

Dapo, we have never lost Kwara, How come Northerners are Saying Saraki does no understand HAUSA?
When the time come, we will take it back.

tensor777:

There is no evidence that Fela actually supported Biafra. Although he was indeed notorious for his "whining lyrics" in the latter part of his life I have to be fair to him in this matter.
Ideologically he was more of a Pan-Africanist and would be unlikely to support a reactionary splitting of the Giant of Africa. He has never advocated for that and what's more at the time of the civil war and its aftermath he was very much a non-political pop musician.

cap28:

I dont know what part of nigeria you are from but honestly you should be ashamed of yourself for describing Fela's lyrics as "whining" honestly.

tensor777:

You are not consistent. You have made very silly statements about the starvation of kids in the Nigerian civil war, a policy which even Gowon the then head of state opposed and tried to counter, and yet you are saying you are so concerned that people are "suffering" that you want to come to their rescue. What are you on about?

vangogh:

Fela was a great man without a shadow of doubt. His music speaks of injustice meted out to Nigerians by military dictators.
There is no doubt Fela would support Biafra's cause given the disposition of Fela to injustice.

If I were in the same shoes as Easterners in the North during the unfortunate events of 60s when blood-thirsty Hausas were
going on killing spree, I probably would support Biafra.
Nobody wants to his people being slaughtered without wanting to retaliate.

Having said that, Okujwu committed some serious blunders; notably, lack of preparation and underestimating the strength of the Nigerian army.
He was ill-prepared for the war itself and the likely fall-out from war. War is hell, and it should  be eschewed at all costs.

Also, invading the Mid-West and West was the biggest blunder committed by Ojukwu because that was what pitied the Mid-West and West against Biafra.  Prior to the invasion of MW, the SW and MW were neutral parties to the war. The fallout from that invasion is what we read mostly on NL
Igbos may blame Awolowo for his war strategy, the fact is that Ojukwu wasn't making a social call when he invaded SW.

For those who say Ojukwu was trying to liberate Yoruba, how logical does that sound? Biafra was under serious invasion from the East , in fact, some Eastern cities had already fallen during the first month of the war.  Given the fact Biafra house was already on fire, what sense would it make for Ojukwu to abandon his own house  (Biafra) that was on fire and attempt to rescue the MW and SW that were not on fire?

Truth is the march westward by Biafra was a military strategy that backfired. It was an attempt to surprise the Nigerian army at its perceived weakest link.

DapoBear:

I'm not saying the starvation of kids in the civil war was a good thing. I also don't like deaths in war, but they happen and are a necessary outcome.
Please try to think through things a bit further before you post, a lot of supposed inconsistencies can be resolved by just thinking a bit longer.

tensor777:

I have no idea what you are talking about there? Can you be more specific? Who are these oligarchs and kleptocrats? What are their objectives?
I want specific names, and a coherent account of their aims,  objectives, and modus operandi and not airy-fairy conspiracy theories.

tensor777:

Well he did have a negative message, so yes I stand by that description even though he was quite talented.

tensor777:

Well you have been the one talking about splitting and land-grabbing. You think that such actions won't lead to an all out military conflagration.?
So you should be able to see the link between your greedy, grasping coveteousness and the kiliing, violation of females, massacre, and genocide that would be the inevitable fall out of such a policy.

cap28:

I didnt expect you to have any idea of what i was talking about.  Only a nigerian completely removed from reality would openly admit that they are unaware that nigeria has been run by a group of northern oligarchs since 1960.
generation after generation of nigerians to  a life of misery and grinding poverty.  They are a plague and a scourge on our nation and until they are wiped out we will remain a nation of slaves.  

tensor777:

You are such a funny guy. Murtala executed for his pan africanism -whatever that means- or in fact caught up in a counter coup by disgruntled elements in the military stll loyal to Gowon.

So if not for peole like Gowon or Babangida, Nigeria would have been the Japan of Africa? Don't make me laugh. Based on a mono-product economy having a budget of just $30 billion for a population of 100 million?

tensor777:

Well he did have a negative message, so yes I stand by that description even though he was quite talented.

DapoBear:

I was condemning land-grabbing, not for it. Splitting won't necessarily lead to a war. I have no desire for any sort of warfare in Yorubaland, Awolowo rejected conflict in the land and I do the same. If we cannot achieve independence without great loss of life, then we shall delay it.
Only potential greed I have is Kwara, a territory that was historically owned by my people, a state that is primarily Yoruba. That I want them to join if/when Yorubaland secedes isn't really selfish, it isn't as if I'll force them to do it against their will, or something.
You seem to have badly misread some of my posts.

chyz:

If you do not know that murtala muhammed was executed for pan-africanism then your are a fool.

KnowAll:

[color=#000099][b]I think " Fela" as a phenomenon is above the trivial tribal bickerings of some SEasterners especially Igbo's,   the whole concept of Biafra is totally out of sync with Fela's pan-africanist movement, for anyone to think Fela can be so belittled to support an agitataion and proclamation based on greed and stubborness is a slight on the phenoenon known as " Fela".
I think some of us don't know when to draw the line by dragging the name of one of African's most celeberated pan -Africanist into a none issue, the whole Biafran agitation and conception is marred in greed, envy and out-right insubordination by some officer's who should know better.
I hope the culprit who is still alive who is assumed to have blown the whilstle for the pillaging and theft to commence in the land is a lot happier man today,  obvioulsy seeing his handiwork play to the gallary, his unprecedented  mutiny has  caused the nation enough pains in the last 40 years.
But does the absconding commander have any remouse hell no !!!, what and how about him inviting the chief Pillager of the nation to his backwaters and not only conferring on him an exclusive Igbo name but his unsavoury proclaimations that every Igbo's far and wide should support his candidacy this more than anything is the sorry state of Igboland in 2010.[/b]