ZIM DRILL:

mugabe made the wrong move to touch commercial farms that where contributing much to the economy before he had better producing commercial black farm to replace the whites ones

now those black farmer are struggling to farms commercial they dont have money to buy simple treated seeds worse fertilizer

Right. It's a real shame, I liked Mugabe but. I think age and the cunny antics of the West got to him. Which is one reason why I would always blame him for not getting able and well groomed successors to continue the struggle.

I really hope he will get it right for the sake of My Zimbabwean Brothers and Sisters.

Kilode?!:

Don't let me start doubting your Zimbabwe High literacy claims.

A is not the same as THE.

The Moon
A star

A is indefinite or general
The is definite or particular

South Africa is THE giant
Nigeria is A giant.

C'mon now.

check again on my statement it talks of two countries nigeria and south africa the statement aint looking into what might be general or particular

it talks of who is gaint of african economy not who is of one the gaints or general the way you want to put it

open borders, large family size, lack of accurate census figures.

Kilode?!:

Right. It's a real shame, I liked Mugabe but. I think age and the cunny antics of the West got to him. Which is one reason why I would always blame him for not getting able and well groomed successors to continue the struggle.

I really hope he will get it right for the sake of My Zimbabwean Brothers and Sisters.

he old thought smart to make people out zimbabwe believe that he is a good leader

one minute he blast the western saying he doesnt need the waste to help zimbabwe

then next he says he is open to talk to them  he is just crazy

Ileke-IdI:

But a lot dont have enough.

Yes and that is where our "Balloning" population comes into play, comparatively, we are doing well with local food security.

But I worry though. We spend a lot trying to maintain other comforts; Security, Transportation, Education e.t.c and is takes from the food sufficiency.

You are yet to pound my Iyan but, I'mma let you be this year  

ZIM DRILL, your name is very amusing to me for some reason. It reminds me of Nelly's Tip Drill song.  

@ Zim Drill, It's fine, I saw "A" but you've clarified, I get your point.

Ochi_Agha:

ZIM DRILL, your name is very amusing to me for some reason. It reminds me of Nelly's Tip Drill song.  

Lol. Thought i was the only one.

tpia1:

open borders, large family size, lack of accurate census figures.

Open borders: Not necessarily, there are other African countries with open borders as well. Same with South American countries

Large Family Size: Again not quite unique to Nigeria. Also, by that reasoning population growth should be on the decline ( Like in Russia) since much of southern and part of northern Nigeria now have reduced family size secondary to improved health care, education, family planning, and more exposure to western lifestyle; on the contrary, population growth is rising and actual population number is going up as well.

Lack of accurate census figures: This answers the question somewhat, but not satisfactorily.

Kilode?!:

@ Zim Drill, It's fine, I saw "A" but you've clarified, I get your point.

cool

atleast we got to understand each other

ZIM DRILL:

he old thought smart to make people out zimbabwe believe that he is a good leader

one minute he blast the western saying he doesnt need the waste to help zimbabwe

then next he says he is open to talk to them  he is just crazy

I agree he is getting crazy but, he already carried the weight of his people for a whole generation. Your people might need to help him leave the stage. I just hope the MDC and Tsvangirai and co are better alternatives.

BTW, what are the staples in Zimbabwe? I mean the staples you ate before the Europeans came?

Ochi_Agha:

ZIM DRILL, your name is very amusing to me for some reason. It reminds me of Nelly's Tip Drill song.

well DRILL is my nickname one of my friends gave to me

since this is a nigerian from i added ZIM to let you know that i am a zimbabwean

strangerf:


Open borders: Not necessarily, there are other African countries with open borders as well. Same with South American countries

Large Family Size: Again not quite unique to Nigeria. Also, by that reasoning population growth should be on the decline ( Like in Russia) since much of southern and part of northern Nigeria now have reduced family size secondary to improved health care, education, family planning, and more exposure to western lifestyle; on the contrary, population growth is rising and actual population number is going up as well.

Lack of accurate census figures: This answers the question somewhat, but not satisfactorily.

I don't trust the population figures myself, but I think it might not be too far from the 140M mark because the world Bank estimates goes far back into the 60s and they are now around that ball park figure. I'm wary of the World Bank too.

Can't wait for google to just do the counting from the sky   at least they do no evil

Kilode?!:

I agree he is getting crazy but, he already carried the weight of his people for a whole generation. Your people might need to help him leave the stage. I just hope the MDC and Tsvangirai and co are better alternatives.

BTW, what are the staples in Zimbabwe? I mean the staples you ate before the Europeans came?

MDC is still learning the politics games

the stable foods where rapoko (http://ecocrop.fao.org/ecocrop/srv/en/cropView?id=5657) and Pearl Millet

Kilode?!:

I don't trust the population figures myself, but I think it might not be too far from the 140M mark because the world Bank estimates goes far back into the 60s and they are now around that ball park figure. I'm wary of the World Bank too.

Can't wait for google to just do the counting from the sky   at least they do no evil

I think the census figures is right on the money

And there is about 1 million Nigerians in the US, legally residing there that are paying taxes, and about 3.5 mill in the UK, which were not counted. And there are numerous Nigerians all over the world, from China to India to Australia who were not counted as well. So I think the census figure might not be far from the real value, and any error/inflation or deflation is prolly within the SEM.

So the whole fertile ground explanation plus frequent boinking might actually explain it better.

@ Zim Ok, I can see it's an arid crop. I'm still worried about how many staple varieties you have or can make out of the Finger Millet.

I think food security is a major factor in population growth and the varieties of local staples we have plus the fertile tropical weather might be the reason for the huge population difference between Nigeria/West Africa/Congo and other African sub-regions

Do the the whities in Zim eat it? or only You guys eat it? (I'm assuming you are black)

strangerf:

I think the census figures is right on the money

And there is about 1 million Nigerians in the US, legally residing there that are paying taxes, and about 3.5 mill in the UK, which were not counted. And there are numerous Nigerians all over the world, from China to India to Australia who were not counted as well. So I think the census figure might not be far from the real value, and any error/inflation or deflation is prolly within the SEM.

So the whole fertile ground explanation plus frequent boinking might actually explain it better.

I think it's time I put my name across for Nobel Prize Nomination - Economics prize j/k

I'm sure there are other controlling factors, but I'm just curious about the staple food sufficiency I've noticed in Nigeria and its possible relation to our large population

Who said Japan had a small population? They're 127 million strong and then some. Not small at all. Even on that tiny island. If they have a lower modern reproduction rate it would be due to a higher level of development. Lower reproduction rates can be seen across basically all developed nations ('1st world" countries) There's no  relationship whatsoever between land mass and population density.

And Nigeria is large for reasons of arbitrary colonial demarcation. If the map of Africa had been drawn differently we wouldn't even be discussing this. As for why the groups inside of this arbitrary colonial demarcation have a high population, Nigeria was a seat of kingdoms and empires. True kingdoms and empires thrive and flourish and produce more densely populated centers, from which new populations can spring and start new centers. This proliferation of developing city-states is bound to have far more population than the proliferation of unchanging loosely dispersed hunter-gatherer societies sprinkled with occasional and usually small kingdoms that are found among most of the rest of the colonial demarcations composing African countries.

Now what are these kingdoms and empires of Nigeria?

1. Benin Empire
2. Ife civilization/kingdom
3. Nri civilization/kingdom
4. Kanem-Bornu Empire (this spread across much of Nothern Western Africa but it's center eventually became Borno state of Nigeria)
5. Hausa city state of Daura
6. Hausa city state of Kano
7. Hausa city state of Katsina
8. Hausa city state of Zazzau (Zaria)
9. Hausa city state of Gobir
10. Hausa city state of Rano
11. Hausa city state of Biram
12. The Sokoto Caliphate which took over all those Hausa city states and other centers.
13. Oyo Empire/Ibadan Empire
14. Kingdom of Warri
15. Calabar Kingdom
16. Kalabari Kingdom
17. Kingdom of Bonny
18. Aro confederacy
19. Onitsha kingodm
20. Ijebu kingdom
21. Owo kingdom
22. Igala kingdom centered at Idah
23. Kwararafa confederacy
24. Nupe kingdom
25. Okpe Kingdom
26. Ekiti kingdom
27. Iwo kingdom
28. Ondo Kingdom
29. Borgu Kingdom
30. And even part of the Songhai Empire contributed to the population of Northern Nigeria.



Truly, a nation of descendants of royalty, probably that's why we're always bickering amongst ourselves and too proud to yield power even to the detriment of our own progress. In fact, this union of "too many chiefs without enough indians" might be one of the major reasons for Nigeria's previous downward trajectory.

Of course the relevant question at this point may be why all of these centers developed there in the first place (had the population to develop) and that is probably due to environmental advantages of the areas (climate, rivers, lakes, crops, etc., or in the case of the North, location near trade routes between older African empires and North Africans and locations near some arable land (compared to the desert immediately north) and the probable greater geographical dispersion of migrants from Chad (where some of the oldest human remains were found) or East Africa to more fertile areas in Nigeria rather than anything about the specific groups in Nigeria or their proclivity to reproduce at ludicrous rates. Basically the fertile environment, which allowed certain crops to be grown there, combined with the migration patterns of the earliest Africans took, which probably had a greater push toward Nigeria because of these environmental advantages, probably resulted in an initial larger concentration of populations in the Nigerian area and the development of the city states multiplied this initial population. I can't remember which book I read this in (I desperately wish I could recall it because I recall it being a very interesting book) but apparently most of the major crops grown in Africa before the introduction of Eurasian crops were centered around West Africa (which most of Nigeria was part of) and the Sahel (from which Northern Nigeria's kingdoms/population centers sprang). Africa has never had really large populations but Nigerian groups together composed a large section of sub-Saharan Africa's population probably for these reasons.

PhysicsMHD you forgot the Nok empire (which is probably the oldest documentated civilisation in 'sub-saharan Africa')

And there was no Ibo Empire


Hmmmmmm, they could not even organise themselves, now they want to rule Nigeria

What an Irony!

Good analysis PhysicsQED.

Same could be said about Congo-DRC and the historical Kongo empire with similar climate and the attendant large population.

I often wonder how much Africa would have developed without colonial incursion, with these empires able to evolve as naturally as possible into countries and nations on African terms. Anyway that is gone now it's up to us to get it right.

strangerf:

And there was no Ibo Empire


Hmmmmmm, they could not even organise themselves, now they want to rule Nigeria

What an Irony!

Was there a Yoruba empire?
or is Oyo empire=Yoruba empire?

Kilode?!:

Yes and that is where our "Balloning" population comes into play, comparatively, we are doing well with local food security.

But I worry though. We spend a lot trying [/b]to maintain other comforts; [b]Security, Transportation, Education e.t.c and is takes from the food sufficiency.

You are yet to pound my Iyan but, I'mma let you be this year  

Ai! Trying, but never achieving.

Security? I was thinking of hiring my own security guards [non-Nigerians] when I come to Nigeria, esp for going through Lagos.

Dont worry,  dear. I'll send you your iyan thru DHL.

Akin-Egba:

Was there a Yoruba empire?

and yet u call urself an egba man

alj harem:

and yet u call urself an egba man

Ode! What empire was called Yoruba empire?

Akin-Egba:

Ode! What empire was called Yoruba empire?

no ebga man, it is caled the oyo empire

@alj harem

Did your Igboland have any empire? Just wondering.

Did you grandma tell you any stories?

Akin-Egba:

Was there a Yoruba empire?

Igbobuigbo, come out of the closet and lets do battle!

Yes, there were several Yoruba Empires ruling for thousands of years.

We already organised ourselves into city states prior to the arrival of the White men than enslaved your people

We produced the first doctors, lawyers. administrators, engineers in the whole of the black race,

Omo Ibo, Akin Egba=Igbobuigbo, come out lets do battle!

@Topic

I think the British deliberately lumped us together as one country in order to have a one-stop huge human capital they can use to counter (for whatever purpose) their then French neighbour-colonialist, whose colonies surrounded Nigeria.

strangerf:

Igbobuigbo, come out of the closet and lets do battle!

Yes, there were several Yoruba Empires ruling for thousands of years.

We already organised ourselves into city states prior to the arrival of the White men than enslaved your people

We produced the first doctors, lawyers. administrators, engineers in the whole of the black race,

Omo Ibo, Akin Egba=Igbobuigbo, come out lets do battle!

Is Oyo empire= Yoruba empire? That is the question.

Ileke-IdI:

@alj harem

Did your Igboland have any empire? Just wondering.

Did you grandma tell you any stories?

no but we had kingdoms

Akin-Egba:

Is Oyo empire= Yoruba empire? That is the question.

Dear Igbobuigbo.

Yes! Yes!! yes!!!

In the olden days, Yoruba people were referred to as Oyo mesi!

Come out lets do battle!