budaatum:


God created you in God's own image, so it's ok to worship you. And even though God gets jealous, Christ gave me a waiver with, "inasmuch as I have done for shadeyinka who I see before me, God in heaven whom I see not is very very pleased".

So, you do not need to be perfect to be buda's God. You just let God deal with buda in God's own time, and I will present my defense as I have just presented it to you and we'll see if God would dare send buda to hell.

I swear to God that buda will dabaru hell that day!

Be blessed.

I will respectfully but vehimently rejected any kind of worship. I am just a messenger and at best an Ambassador of His kingdom. I'll rather we be friends and co-worker than that which you have said.


Matthew 23:8
"But you are not to be called ’Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

I appreciate the Love, but what you said is far beyond what I can even dare to think.

Yes, every human represents God before others only in terms of Love and that is sufficient for me.

I wish we can both be fully brothers in Christ, Brothers in Love, Brothers in commitment to Serving God and Man, Brothers in Knowledge and Understanding and Brothers in Purity and Christlike Character.

Lk17:10
Thus you also, when you may have done all the things having been commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have done that which we were bound to do.'"

I would still rather you look up to Christ and you can be CERTAIN of your anchor.



Shalom my Brother!

shadeyinka:

I will respectfully but vehemently rejected any kind of worship!

You may reject as vehemently as you as you like, but you know very well that buda has a tendency to not always obey the God, but that does not in anyway diminish their Godliness

Still, perhaps a definition may help.

budaatum:

Worship (as far as buda is concerned) means:

Do my will, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A30-31&version=NIV]love[/url] your neighbours, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A37-40&version=NKJV]do[/url] unto others as you will have them do unto you, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A12-15&version=NIV]forgive[/url] trespasses so your trespasses are forgiven, [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A35-40&version=NIV]feed[/url] the poor and “[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A28&version=NIV]be[/url] fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the face of the earth.” "For in as much as ye have [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A40&version=KJV]done[/url] to the least of these" ye shall dwell in the Tabernacle of the Lord and the the Holy Spirit will fill us more.

If you were not considered worthy, we will not have called you God.

budaatum:


You may reject as vehemently as you as you like, but you know very well that buda has a tendency to not always obey the God, but that does not in anyway diminish their Godliness

Still, perhaps a definition may help.



If you were not considered worthy, we will not have called you God.

I still respectfully decline!
I am a fellow servant!

shadeyinka:

I still respectfully decline!
I am a fellow servant!

You will decline.
You must decline.
The forces that make it so are very very powerful.

But know this day that ye are God.
A child of the Most High

budaatum:

You will decline.
You must decline.
The forces that make it so are very very powerful.

But know this day that ye are God.
A child of the Most High

There are gods -elohim (plural) BUT there is only one God-Eloha/Elohim(singular/majesty).

The sons of God are gods only in the sense that God's spirit reside in them. They are born of the Spirit of God (born again).

The sons of a living King can only be Princes! God lives forever and ever

shadeyinka:

There are gods -elohim (plural) BUT there is only one God-Eloha/Elohim(singular/majesty).

The sons of God are gods only in the sense that God's spirit reside in them. They are born of the Spirit of God (born again).

The sons of a living King can only be Princes! God lives forever and ever

I am very delighted to see that you are taking my advise and not believing a single word I say.

You, Sir, shall tell by my fruits.

budaatum:


I am very delighted to see that you are taking my advise and not believing a single word I say.

You, Sir, shall tell by my fruits.

I can only disbelief you through
having an adequatee knowledge of the Truth. A person who disbelieves without having an adequate knowledge and understanding is also very RECKLESS!

shadeyinka:

A person who disbelieves without having an adequate knowledge and understanding is also very RECKLESS!

I suggest you read the thread Skepticism Vs Zombiesm - Which Is Good?

When you are done, open one of those enlightening threads you often open and we'll worship together to God's glory as we do.

budaatum:


I suggest you read the thread Skepticism Vs Zombiesm - Which Is Good?

When you are done, open one of those enlightening threads you often open and we'll worship together to God's glory as we do.

I've read it and it's quite enlightening but a little biased.

Zombeism in whatever form is wrong. Skepticism is good but it isn't the opposite of Zombeism.

A healthySkepticism would want to have a personal understanding of things or events before committing to a position: and this is good .

Zombeism will thoughtlessly commit to a position because it is a popular fashion (i.e. based on the ideology of others).

The opposite of Zombeism will probably be an outright thoughtless rejection of any opinion or position by others.

A healthy skepticism should be a transient position while actively pursuing knowledge and understanding to affirm or reject a particular position.

A destructive , unhealthy and faulty skepticism is one that is the permanent state of an individual.

On Religion:
Any religion that rejects being questioned or scrutinized is not worth anything.

shadeyinka:

The opposite of Zombeism will probably be an outright thoughtless rejection of any opinion or position by others.

No quite the opposite, necessarily, since the "thoughtless rejection of any opinion or position [given] by others" can also be because of zombieism, as in, the zombieic programming to not have the brains to reject.

shadeyinka:
A destructive , unhealthy and faulty skepticism is one that is the permanent state of an individual.

Like a person who covers their eyes so that they may never see. Lol.

shadeyinka:
On Religion:
Any religion that rejects being questioned or scrutinized is not worth anything.

Translation:
Any religion that commands one to believe instead of use their God given brain will lead to [spiritual] death.

Will you agree that this type of religion is not the type that Jesus the Lord of 'Open Your Eyes And Look For Yourself So You Can See', preached, despite the numerous "believe" verses you quoted to me recently?

budaatum:

No quite the opposite, necessarily, since the "thoughtless rejection of any opinion or position [given] by others" can also be because of zombieism, as in, the zombieic programming to not have the brains to reject.

You have a point, however, zombeism should be characterized by the "herd syndrome". Following dogmas without independent thought about its correctness or not. Don't zombies not prefer moving in groups?

What would you call a person who will usually outrightly thoughtlessly reject any opinion or position by others? I'm sure it wouldn't be a zombie: it would be an antisocial rebel ( for usually they are loners)

budaatum:

Like a person who covers their eyes so that they may never see. Lol.

O yeah!
Like "Don't confuse me with the Truth, I've already made up my mind!"

budaatum:

Translation:
Any religion that commands one to believe instead of use their God given brain will lead to [spiritual] death.

Will you agree that this type of religion is not the type that Jesus the Lord of 'Open Your Eyes And Look For Yourself So You Can See', preached, despite the numerous "believe" verses you quoted to me recently?

Religion initially is like learning indirectly from the first-hand experience of your father.

My take is that, if your father forbid you to question his real life experiences, his experiences could as well be made up!

Religion ALWAYS have a basis in that which we do not have the initial first hand experience, however, we have our senses to navigate through to a point we have our own personal experience (so that we can know the WHY/UNDERSTANDING behind our FAITH and our BELIEFS?

Your quote:
Any religion that commands one to believe instead of use their God given brain will lead to [spiritual] death.

May not be correct because it is impossible to know and understand God through our Intellects alone. We can only truely KNOW God when He reveals Himself unto us.

The God of my Father is not yet my God until I know Him. Unfortunately, even knowledge is relative hence, it seems God is gracious (not to expect perfection in knowledge of Him from us) to accept us BELIEVING in Him.

Thus, a primary school child can believe in God, not because he has all the knowledge, but a willingness to take a POSITION of trust with his incomplete knowledge and understanding. Every Christian should learn to grow from BELIEVING into FAITH in God.

*BELIEVING rely on information and understanding of God
*FAITH rely on knowing God enough to fully depend on His INTEGRITY!

Believing is like accepting that Dangote is the Richest man in Africa

Faith is going to your bank to facilitate the purchase of two Boeing 737 planes because you trust that Dangote's check (given to you) cannot bounce.

shadeyinka:

You have a point, however, zombeism should be characterized by the "herd syndrome". Following dogmas without independent thought about its correctness or not. Don't zombies not prefer moving in groups?

First, part of what must be on the Tree of Knowledge of one who seeks understanding, is some linguistics, as in the use of language. I for instance will tell you that I do not live in a "should world" as it implies how one expects or would prefer the world to be. I guess that's why the blue or red pill in the Matrix does not appeal to me because it implies the distortion of perception, and not the real world, as in how the world actually is. That is why the Optician Jesus Christ cures eyes, so that one may see what is really there instead of the "should world" we create inside our own minds.

Zombies may prefer to be in groups, but groups are made up of individual zombies.

shadeyinka:

What would you call a person who will usually outrightly thoughtlessly reject any opinion or position by others? I'm sure it wouldn't be a zombie: it would be an antisocial rebel ( for usually they are loners)

I would call such a person an idiot. And they may not be alone, as you might see here.

shadeyinka:
Religion initially is like learning indirectly from the first-hand experience of your father.

Actually, it is not "learning indirectly from the first-hand experience of your father".

Religion is actually the acceptance of that which one's father thoughtlessly accepted from their own father and thoughtlessly fed to you.

shadeyinka:
My take is that, if your father forbid you to question his real life experiences, his experiences could as well be made up!

Most people's father forbid them from questioning that which they thoughtlessly accepted from their own father unquestioningly!

shadeyinka:
Religion ALWAYS have a basis in that which we do not have the initial first hand experience,....

Exactly! And neither did your father have first hand experience of what they religiously handed down to you and which you might hand down to your children if you do not question it either. Its like the sins (ignorance) of the father being handed down through the generations.

shadeyinka:
.....however, we have our senses to navigate through to a point we have our own personal experience (so that we can know the WHY/UNDERSTANDING behind our FAITH and our BELIEFS?

As in, after you might have become fortunate to have been blessed by Christ (Understanding) coming into your life, then you may begin to use your senses. Amen.

shadeyinka:

May not be correct because it is impossible to know and understand God through our Intellects alone. We can only truely KNOW God when He reveals Himself unto us.

This is only true if your eyes are dim. Once you understand that the eye is the lamp of the body and undim it, you might then gradually understand how to undim the rest of your senses. And who is to say what you may find if you ask and you knock and you seek with all your thy heart and with all thy soul and with all your mind and being? Who can tell what might be revealed to you God?

Would you not agree that it might be different to what is revealed to a person who lazily sits on their ass finds?

shadeyinka:
The God of my Father is not yet my God until I know Him. Unfortunately, even knowledge is relative hence, it seems God is gracious (not to expect perfection in knowledge of Him from us) to accept us BELIEVING in Him.

The blind see, the lame walk the dead rise and the Gospel is understood by some indeed. God is merciful enough to not measure us all by the same standard.

Knowledge, however, is not relative since you will not say a person who claims their 2+2=3 is knowledgable. You will definitely say their knowledge is relative and then hire such a person as your accountant, I would hope.

shadeyinka:
Thus, a primary school child can believe in God, not because he has all the knowledge, but a willingness to take a POSITION of trust with his incomplete knowledge and understanding.

Nonsense! A primary school child believes in God because it is ignorant and has been fed nonsense that has not yet developed the ability to question so it may learn and acquire knowledge. Its knowledge is so incomplete that it is ignorant and should accept it is ignorant and correct its ignorance by learning.

shadeyinka:
Every Christian should learn to grow from BELIEVING into FAITH in God.

And that is precisely what Christianity is about, Shadeyinka, the continued becoming as ignorant as a child who does not believe anything and therefore questions so it may learn and know.

Unfortunately, the devil who can enter the Garden of Eden and corrupt it, has also entered the mind of humans and made us believe instead!

But God does not rest. We will be saved! In Jesus Mighty Name.

budaatum:

First, part of what must be on the Tree of Knowledge of one who seeks understanding, is some linguistics, as in the use of language. I for instance will tell you that I do not live in a "should world" as it implies how one expects or would prefer the world to be. I guess that's why the blue or red pill in the Matrix does not appeal to me because it implies the distortion of perception, and not the real world, as in how the world actually is. That is why the Optician Jesus Christ cures eyes, so that one may see what is really there instead of the "should world" we create inside our own minds.

Zombies may prefer to be in groups, but groups are made up of individual zombies.

Zombies are idiots and that is their main characteristics. THOUGHTLESSNESS

Now, it doesn't matter if it's a thoughtless "herd syndrome" of following others
OR
a thoughtless "solo" rejection of following others

A thoughtless skeptic person
OR
A thoughtless zombie person

Are dumb set of persons!

budaatum:

I would call such a person an idiot. And they may not be alone, as you might see here.

A person who will usually outrightly thoughtlessly reject any opinion or position by others is also a zombie and an antisocial rebel ( for usually they are loners). I've met a few in my short life.

budaatum:

Actually, it is not "learning indirectly from the first-hand experience of your father".

Religion is actually the acceptance of that which one's father thoughtlessly accepted from their own father and thoughtlessly fed to you.

No sir!
That is why going to church or even baptism doesn't make one a Christian. "You have to be Born Again" to become a Christian. This is not THOUGHTLESSNESS, it is a conscious deliberate choice of the Messiah.

Now, even though my reference to "father" should have been in quotes, I do not mean literal father. For the Christians, the "Father figure" is Abraham.

But even then, I did not thoughtlessly become a Christian and so even though I teach my Children Gods way, they each have to individually and personally know God

budaatum:

Most people's father forbid them from questioning that which they thoughtlessly accepted from their own father unquestioningly!

Exactly! And neither did your father have first hand experience of what they religiously handed down to you and which you might hand down to your children if you do not question it either. Its like the sins (ignorance) of the father being handed down through the generations.

This would be intellectual laziness on the part of any Christian who avoids answering questions.

1Pet 3:15:
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

budaatum:

As in, after you might have become fortunate to have been blessed by Christ (Understanding) coming into your life, then you may begin to use your senses. Amen.


This is only true if your eyes are dim. Once you understand that the eye is the lamp of the body and undim it, you might then gradually understand how to undim the rest of your senses. And who is to say what you may find if you ask and you knock and you seek with all your thy heart and with all thy soul and with all your mind and being? Who can tell what might be revealed to you God?

Would you not agree that it might be different to what is revealed to a person who lazily sits on their ass finds?


The blind see, the lame walk the dead rise and the Gospel is understood by some indeed. God is merciful enough to not measure us all by the same standard.

Knowledge, however, is not relative since you will not say a person who claims their 2+2=3 is knowledgable. You will definitely say their knowledge is relative and then hire such a person as your accountant, I would hope.

I know about computer programming but I am no perfect all-rounder in computer programming. My knowledge of programming is relative and limited.

I certainly know mathematics, but I am not even an expert, not can I master all fields in mathematics. My knowledge of mathematics is relative

budaatum:

Nonsense! A primary school child believes in God because it is ignorant and has been fed nonsense that has not yet developed the ability to question so it may learn and acquire knowledge. Its knowledge is so incomplete that it is ignorant and should accept it is ignorant and correct its ignorance by learning.

That is why the kingdom of God belong to those who won't claim to be wise but like a child will accept the Messiah.
Mar 10:15:
"Truly I say to you, Whoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein."

budaatum:


And that is precisely what Christianity is about, Shadeyinka, the continued becoming as ignorant as a child who does not believe anything and therefore questions so it may learn and know.

Unfortunately, the devil who can enter the Garden of Eden and corrupt it, has also entered the mind of humans and made us believe instead!

But God does not rest. We will be saved! In Jesus Mighty Name.

God meet with us at our levels. It's not about being ignorant but childlike unconditional LOVE for God

shadeyinka:
My knowledge of programming is relative and limited

My knowledge of mathematics is relative

The above statements are meaningless!

What is your knowledge in programming and mathematics relative to?

And what limits your knowledge?

budaatum:


The above statements are meaningless!

What is your knowledge in programming and mathematics relative to?

And what limits your knowledge?

Relative to who I am speaking to.

To my students, I know both mathematics and computer programming. However to professors of mathematics, I am berely scratching the ground

shadeyinka:

Relative to who I am speaking to.

To my students, I know both mathematics and computer programming. However to professors of mathematics, I am berely scratching the ground

If you agree that a two year old who can only count to ten and add 2 and 2 has relative knowledge of maths as or to a professors of mathematics, then I will not argue with you.

Just know that the people claiming the earth is flat also have relative knowledge too, though I'd rather say they are ignorant.

1Sharon:


He has none. God's name was ' I am that I am' in the old testament and now became mere 'allah' in the Qur'an.

" I am that I am" is not His name... It was His response when asked of His name, yes, but not His name. It eventually became a title of sorts, " The I am" but not His name.

Kobojunkie:
" I am that I am" is not His name... It was His response when asked of His name, yes, but not His name. It eventually became a title of sorts, " The I am" but not His name.

What's his name?

1Sharon:

What's his name?

I am not certain God Himself has a definite name such as His creations do, nor do I think He needs one.
However, to those whom He gave the Old Covenant, He gave the name YHWH - a name by which the covenant can be invoked. The name Jesus Christ applies to the New Covenant.

Kobojunkie:
I am not certain God Himself has a definite name such as His creations do, nor do I think He needs one.
However, to those whom He gave the Old Covenant, He gave the name YHWH - a name by which the covenant can be invoked. The name Jesus Christ applies to the New Covenant.

All gods have a name

1Sharon:

All gods have a name

Ok. So tell us, what is the name of God of the Jews and of the Christians?

budaatum:


If you agree that a two year old who can only count to ten and add 2 and 2 has relative knowledge of maths as or to a professors of mathematics, then I will not argue with you.

Just know that the people claiming the earth is flat also have relative knowledge too, though I'd rather say they are ignorant.

Parent:
Hello madam. How is our daughter doing in class?
Teacher:
Oh Mr Buda. Your daughter is fantastic. She knows mathematics very well. She likes to teach her classmates. What a brilliant daughter you have.

How wrong could this conversation between parent and teacher about a 2 year old child be?

We used to know for certain that there were 9 planets in our solar system. But now, Pluto is no more a planet thus we have eight planets in our solar system.

In August 2006 the International Astronomical Union (IAU) downgraded the status of Pluto to that of “dwarf planet.”

https://www.loc.gov/everyday-mysteries/item/why-is-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/#:~:text=Answer,neighboring%20region%20of%20other%20objects.%E2%80%9D

Knowledge is also relative to better understanding. Scientific knowledge changes when a new evidence emerge.


You may read up:

Superseded theories in science
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superseded_theories_in_science

Knowledge is NOT absolute!

Kobojunkie:
Ok. So tell us, what is the name of God of the Jews and of the Christians?

Jews call him Yahweh and Christians call him jesus

1Sharon:


Jews call him Yahweh and Christians call him jesus

Christians do not call God Jesus Christ. And Jews call Him YHWH because that is the name given per the covenant made to them through their Father Abraham.

If a name does indeed apply, surely it would have been made known long before Abraham showed up in the scene. So, do tell, what is God's name before the name YHWH was given Abraham?

Do recall that unlike His creation, He, God, is one and only -There is no other God besides Him - therefore He has no need for a name.

shadeyinka:

Parent:
Hello madam. How is our daughter doing in class?
Teacher:
Oh Mr Buda. Your daughter is fantastic. She knows mathematics very well. She likes to teach her classmates. What a brilliant daughter you have.

How wrong could this conversation between parent and teacher about a 2 year old child be?

We used to know for certain that there were 9 planets in our solar system. But now, Pluto is no more a planet thus we have eight planets in our solar system.

In August 2006 the International Astronomical Union (IAU) downgraded the status of Pluto to that of “dwarf planet.”

https://www.loc.gov/everyday-mysteries/item/why-is-pluto-no-longer-a-planet/#:~:text=Answer,neighboring%20region%20of%20other%20objects.%E2%80%9D

Knowledge is also relative to better understanding. Scientific knowledge changes when a new evidence emerge.


You may read up:

Superseded theories in science
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superseded_theories_in_science

Knowledge is NOT absolute!

No one is claiming knowledge is absolute! If it was, the earth would still have been created in 6 days in 4004BC! And a superseeded theory is not the same as knowledge or relative knowledge that you claim is between a two year old and a maths professor! A superseeded theory is not knowledge anymore, the clue being in the word superseeded, as in, it has been discovered to be ignorance which we wrongly thought or believed was knowledge.

Consider Plato's Cave. We may claim the ignorance of those in the cave is relative to their lack of knowledge or their knowledge is relative to the cave they are in. But we would not say their ignorance, or knowledge, is relative to the total knowledge that can possibly be had, and compared to the knowledge that can be had, we would say those in the cave are ignorant.

Consider also the parable of the blind men and an elephant. It is the flipside of claiming to have absolute knowledge, as in, having incomplte knowledge, which is not 'relative knowledge', but plain ignorance.

You are seeing knowledge as some subjective thing where incomplete knowledge of 2+2 can equal 3, but knowledge is not subjective like that, which is why you'd fail an exam if you give 3 as the answer to 2+2. And if you use such subjective knowledge to build a house it will be as one built on sand.

Shade. This is the fourth or fifth time we would tackle this. I put it to you that if knowledge is relative, then Allah is God, Yahweh is God, Ogun is God, Sango is God, Shadeyinka is God, and the stone on the floor outside my door is God, since we can always find people whom those statements are all relative to. Do you agree?

Kobojunkie:


Christians do not call God Jesus Christ. And Jews call Him YHWH because that is the name given per the covenant made to them through their Father Abraham.

If a name does indeed apply, surely it would have been made known long before Abraham showed up in the scene. So, do tell, what is God's name before the name YHWH was given Abraham?

Do recall that unlike His creation, He, God, is one and only -There is no other God besides Him - therefore He has no need for a name.

Christians don't call god Jesus?

budaatum:


No one is claiming knowledge is absolute! If it was, the earth would still have been created in 6 days in 4004BC! And a superseeded theory is not the same as knowledge or relative knowledge that you claim is between a two year old and a maths professor! A superseeded theory is not knowledge anymore, the clue being in the word superseeded, as in, it has been discovered to be ignorance which we wrongly thought or believed was knowledge.

The world wasn't created in six days, the world was repopulated in six days!

In other words knowledge is still being refined because we live in a universe consisting of limitations and constraints. The doesn't negate the fact that some aspect of knowledge is absolute and invariant irrespective of time, position or understanding. 2 oranges + 3 oranges will always be 5 oranges.

budaatum:

Consider Plato's Cave. We may claim the ignorance of those in the cave is relative to their lack of knowledge or their knowledge is relative to the cave they are in. But we would not say their ignorance, or knowledge, is relative to the total knowledge that can possibly be had, and compared to the knowledge that can be had, we would say those in the cave are ignorant.

The Allegory of the Plato's Cave is very similar to Religion where the "Father's" had a first-hand experience of seeing the rest of the earth and coming back to report. However instead of ALL the prisoners leaving to check out what their "Father's" have seen to have the same "knowledge and understanding". Each moves to just one higher level of reality and thus arrive at different conclusion from their father who got to the level of having his eyes accustomed to the sun to see.

So, generally, there is an awareness that the cave isn't the real reality BUT conclusions are distorted. Jesus came to guide us to have our own experience of the outside world. Some people also have come to a conclusion that if any information can not be perceived (from within the chains of the prison) then such is mere fantasy. This is the level of Atheists.

budaatum:

Consider also the parable of the blind men and an elephant. It is the flipside of claiming to have absolute knowledge, as in, having incomplte knowledge, which is not 'relative knowledge', but plain ignorance.

The parable of the elephant is ignorance because it is assumed that if the blind men could widen the scope of their exploration, they would see better. The blin people were not constrained like those of the Plato's Cave

budaatum:

You are seeing knowledge as some subjective thing where incomplete knowledge of 2+2 can equal 3, but knowledge is not subjective like that, which is why you'd fail an exam if you give 3 as the answer to 2+2. And if you use such subjective knowledge to build a house it will be as one built on sand.

I do not see knowledge as you have stated. Some knowledge is invariant irrespective of time, position and further knowledge WHILE other knowledge are subject to refining. When you look at knowledge generally, the conclusion is that it is relative (of course with the exception of knowledges that are invariant)

budaatum:

Shade. This is the fourth or fifth time we would tackle this. I put it to you that if knowledge is relative, then Allah is God, Yahweh is God, Ogun is God, Sango is God, Shadeyinka is God, and the stone on the floor outside my door is God, since we can always find people whom those statements are all relative to. Do you agree?

Let's conclude that
1. Some kinds of Knowledge are invariant irrespective of times, position or increase in understanding
Like: 2+3 being equal to 5

2. Some knowlege are relative because it is within a narrow field of consideration
Like: knowledge described within primary school students

3. Some knowledge are also variable depending on better understanding of available data.
Like: Pluto demotion from the status of a planet

1Sharon:

Christians don't call god Jesus?

I am technically what you would consider a Christian, and for me, the name of God is not Jesus Christ, so I am not certain where you get this idea from.

shadeyinka:

The world wasn't created in six days, the world was repopulated in six days!

There was a time it was taught and believed that the world was created in six days. There are even people here on NL who will argue that the world was created in six days. And they will not claim their knowledge is relative, but that those who do not believe as they do are ignorant.

shadeyinka:
In other words knowledge is still being refined because we live in a universe consisting of limitations and constraints.

I have said this, that knowledge is never complete because there will be the unknown tomorrow, knowledge of which we will never have until it becomes today. You may therefore say, knowledge is relative to space and time, a position Heidegger takes in his Being and Time (which I implore you listen to the first 30 minutes), but knowledge is not relative with respect to people at the same space and time.

We will not say, "the knowledge of maths of an ignorant person is relative to that of a maths professor". But we can say their respective knowledge is relevant to the space and time they exist in. You can not relatively pass a maths exam if you write the wrong answers to the question, but your parents might be relatively pleased that you just sat the exam though you failed, while another parent might be displeased with their child for scoring 99% instead of 100%. The fact that Nigerians are not making computer chips is not because our computer chip knowledge is relative, but because Nigerians have insufficient knowledge to create computer chips.

shadeyinka:
The Allegory of the Plato's Cave is very similar to Religion where the "Father's" had a first-hand experience of seeing the rest of the earth and coming back to report.

It is more like religion in that those inside the cave believe the inside of the cave that has been preached to them generation after generation is the entire knowledge that is haveable as in available to be had. They basically believe that their ignorance is all the knowledge that is out there, so they do nit bother to.learn

The Father is like the Jesus who comes to change their beliefs and view, and we all know what was done to him, we crucified him.

The Father is also like the serpent whom we tell ourselves is satan though it opened our eyes. We vilify it.

shadeyinka:
However instead of ALL the prisoners leaving to check out what their "Father's" have seen to have the same "knowledge and understanding". Each moves to just one higher level of reality and thus arrive at different conclusion from their father who got to the level of having his eyes accustomed to the sun to see.

They arrived and moved nowhere! They so refused to move and arrive that they even bashed the head of the father who tried to make them move and arrive! If they were in the Garden of Eden, they would have obeyed the God and refuse to eat the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and their eyes would never have opened nor would they have become wise and self employed! If they lived in Jesus time, they'd be there yelling "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

shadeyinka:
So, generally, there is an awareness that the cave isn't the real reality BUT conclusions are distorted.

You are misunderstanding the allegory of the cave if you believe this! Those in the cave were so unaware of the outside of the cave that they bashed in the head of the one who told them about it.

shadeyinka:
Jesus came to guide us to have our own experience of the outside world. Some people also have come to a conclusion that if any information can not be perceived (from within the chains of the prison) then such is mere fantasy. This is the level of Atheists.

You are allowing what you believe about atheists to distort your perception. Not all atheists are materialists who only accept what they see. But that is aside. Let us concentrate on the forest in our own eyes please.

Yes, "Jesus came to guide us to have our own experience of the outside world". Yet, many Jesus people believe what they are told to believe instead of going out into the world to have their own experiences. Many remain blind inside the cave and are incapable of having their own experiences even if they stepped out of the cave. Can you understand if I said they live in a cage, and refuse to be freed by Christ?

Can you see that they are not like Adam and Eve who ate the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and would have remained blind and ignorant and enslaved in the Garden of Eden forever?

shadeyinka:
The parable of the elephant is ignorance because it is assumed that if the blind men could widen the scope of their exploration, they would see better. The blind people were not constrained like those of the Plato's Cave

Actually, they were constrained like those in Plato's Cave by the fact that they believed the incomplete information that they had was knowledge, which it was not.

shadeyinka:
I do not see knowledge as you have stated. Some knowledge is invariant irrespective of time, position and further knowledge WHILE other knowledge are subject to refining. When you look at knowledge generally, the conclusion is that it is relative (of course with the exception of knowledges that are invariant)

You are failing to separate information from knowledge, and are treating them as the same thing, which they are not.

Knowledge is not relative. It is the information one has that is relative to the person who has it. The Chinese will say, "the person at the top of the mountain sees further than the person at the bottom". If you sit on your ass you'd have little information and think you know a lot though you may know very little.

The knowledge one has is simply relative to how diligently one has climbed the mountain to knock and ask and seek for Knowledge that is out there waiting to be discovered. Those who climb not are relatively ignorant, at least relative to those who have climbed. And if those at the bottom claim they have knowledge, those at they very top will laugh and grin at the ignorance of those at the bottom, as will those who eat the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil grin at those who refuse to eat for fear that on the day that eat they shall surely die, when the truth is, they are dead already because they eat it not. For it is the lack of knowledge that kills, and not its acquisition.

Kobojunkie:
I am technically what you would consider a Christian, and for me, the name of God is not Jesus Christ, so I am not certain where you get this idea from.

Ask majority of Christians where they get that name from. Take it up with them, not me.

1Sharon:


Ask majority of Christians where they get that name from. Take it up with them, not me.

Since when did this become about what the majority of Christians call their God, according to you?
The Bible is the book we have as a reference here. So at least be able to provide some sort of evidence for your claim that God to the Christians is named Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Since when did this become about what the majority of Christians call their God, according to you?
The Bible is the book we have as a reference here. So at least be able to provide some sort of evidence for your claim that God to the Christians is named Jesus Christ.

You said where did I get I get that from, ME or the MAJORITY of Christians?

I'm not a Christian and I'm going by what Christians believe is the name of God.