@Olaadegbu: Click on the thread: Jesus never died! That should calm you down. I wanna burst your bubble, busta.

@Olaadegbu

If you are ready to accept the truth, you and I can walk through each convert's story using the bible and the Quran as our guide because I saw most of them interpreting the scriptures wrongly.

olabowale:

@Olaadegbu: Click on the thread: Jesus never died! That should calm you down. I want to burst your bubble, busta.

You made a good attempt to divert attention away from the main issue.  Lets conclude on the testimony of #43 and what he had to say on why he left the jihadist movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPe8NtArqiE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia-3PXbqepI&feature=related

babs787:

@Olaadegbu

If you are ready to accept the truth, you and I can walk through each convert's story using the bible and the Quran as our guide because I saw most of them interpreting the scriptures wrongly.

Let us start by walking through this ex-muslim militant who is speaking out on the reason why he left Jihad.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8543886979817027934&vt=lf&hl=en

olabowale:

@Olaadegbu: If your idea muslim organization is the PLO, then you must have been an ostrich, for the longest time. I have news for you: There are many Christians in that Nationalsit Organization. Omoya, mo pa oro mo e lenu lono meji: Nationalist and not exclusively islamic! Se o la eti e?

You will like to listen to what a Jewish rabbi has to say about peace in the Palestine region.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qgbWMEedJM&NR=1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6M3AkhCHWU&feature=related

@Olaadegbu: Any muslim who says jihad, in all its forms is not applicable, in its place and in its time, present and or future times, is a liar. We are in jihad, all the time. Even wen you sleep. The Yoruba saying the earth is a struggle is very appropriate. I struggle to wake up, even when i know that i am tired, but what I have to wake up to do is very important. Tat effort of getting up to do it is Jihad.

You want me to accept the testimony of a person who was only an Arab nationalist and ate all kinds of foul foods and relished doing evil deeds, while he said he was a muslim, and quick enough to leave islam, as he enjoys the " momentary luxuries," of the world he lives in as authentic statement of convertion? No my brother. That guy was always a hypocrate, except now God reveal his shame. God has made him a complete disbeliever.

If thats your pride, then babs 787 is my example of true revertion. My mother is another. Yet I have many more. I remember many palestinians I met in college, who were too quick to eat Pepperoni, a processed pig meat. They never stopped throughout the many years we spend in the dorm. They never stopped free basing, too. Would i be shocked if i find them wearing a cross? No.

And your Jewish rabbi will be the speaker of choice for me? You must be kidding me. I lote liars like him. Why would I wanna take his words? By the way I did not goggle any of your references. I wanna hear about jews, I call the ones I personally know, or go to Williamsbury or Borough Park sections of Brooklyn USA!

olabowale:

@Olaadegbu: Any muslim who says jihad, in all its forms is not applicable, in its place and in its time, present and or future times, is a liar. We are in jihad, all the time. Even when you sleep. The Yoruba saying the earth is a struggle is very appropriate. I struggle to wake up, even when i know that i am tired, but what I have to wake up to do is very important. Tat effort of getting up to do it is Jihad.

Talk for yourself and your religion.  I am not subjected to any Yoruba philosopy that says that the earth is a struggle.  That's why I am inviting you to come and see that the Lord is good.  He gives us sweet sleep when we lay down and fights our battle on our behalf as He dispatches His angels to surround us, and we wake up with our strength renewed as the eagles', don't you see what you are missing?

olabowale:

You want me to accept the testimony of a person who was only an Arab nationalist and ate all kinds of foul foods and relished doing evil deeds, while he said he was a muslim, and quick enough to leave islam, as he enjoys the " momentary luxuries," of the world he lives in as authentic statement of convertion? No my brother. That guy was always a hypocrate, except now God reveal his shame. God has made him a complete disbeliever.

I know that it is convenient for you to say that he was not a proper muslim, but you forgot to mention the position of his father and grandfather in the religion, the fact that he was taught from the koran from the kindergatten till he became a terrorist, and I am very sure that he knows more of the religion than either you or babs787 and can also speak Arabic fluently.

olabowale:

If thats your pride, then babs 787 is my example of true revertion. My mother is another. Yet I have many more. I remember many palestinians I met in college, who were too quick to eat Pepperoni, a processed pig meat. They never stopped throughout the many years we spend in the dorm. They never stopped free basing, too. Would i be shocked if i find them wearing a cross? No.

The difference in when one becomes a Christian and when a person becomes a Muslim is that Christianity is not a label that you wear unlike those who think that they have Christian names, have been baptised, confirmed in a church or a church goer.  Being born in a Christian home makes you no more a Christian than being born in a bakery makes you a loaf of bread.  To be a Christian you have to involve your will, mind and heart in making a conscious decision in allowing Jesus to be your Saviour and Lord, to save you of your sins and to give you a new life by His grace, and when the Holy Spirit indwells you with the Truth it is only after this personal encounter with the Lord that you become a genuine Christian and the Christian journey begins, just as you can see in the testimonies in the weblink below.  Babs 787 never had a personal encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ and this is evident in his misunderstanding of the scriptures which he misquotes "to his own destruction"

2Peter 3:15-16

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

olabowale:

And your Jewish rabbi will be the speaker of choice for me? You must be kidding me. I lote liars like him. Why would I want to take his words? By the way I did not goggle any of your references. I want to hear about jews, I call the ones I personally know, or go to Williamsbury or Borough Park sections of Brooklyn USA!

You are the one who brought up the idea of the Jews not believing in the trinity.  The Messianic Jews are on the increase to the extent that Jewish rabbis are now catching the fire.  I have noticed how you guys are quick to condemn people as liars, have you ever lied before?  and if the answer is yes why don't you remove the log in your eyes before you remove the speck in theirs'.

Let us look into this week's testimony and see how he had a personal encounter with God.

http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/watch.asp

The Triune Comforter
by Henry Morris, Ph.D.

"Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God." (2 Corinthians 1:3-4)

One of the titles of the Holy Spirit, especially as used in the King James Version, is His beautiful identification as "the Comforter." The Greek word is parakletos, meaning literally, "one who is called along side to help." A familiar verse is John 14:26: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things. . . ." He is our teacher, our guide, our helper, our Comforter.

The same word is also translated "advocate," meaning an attorney for the defense. In this capacity, it is applied to the Lord Jesus Christ. "And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1). Though we are guilty and lost sinners, He takes our side before the Judge, pleading the sacrificial offering of His own blood for our sins, and we are saved (1 John 2:2).

Even the Father is our "paraclete," according to the verses cited above. He is "the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort" (Greek, paraklesis), and as we pray to our heavenly Father, He indeed does provide great consolation in every hour of trouble and sorrow.

Thus, each person of the Godhead--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--serves as Comforter ("paraclete" to the believer, as needed, who also has access to the "comfort of the scriptures" (Romans 15:4). But there is still another "comforter." Each believer receives such comfort so that we ourselves "may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God." HMM

@Olaadegbu: « #165 on: Today at 02:00:18 PM »

Talk for yourself and your religion. I do not suscribe to any Yoruba philosopy that says that the earth is a struggle. That's why I am inviting you to come and see that the Lord is good. He gives us sweet sleep when we lay down and fights our battle on our behalf as He dispatches His angels to surround us, and we wake up with our strength renewed as the eagles', don't you see what you are missing?

Evidently, you know nothing about the african cultural sayings. And you still keep the ethnic identity? However the confort that I get in my soul, heart and the rest of my body, that I could not find anywhere else, other than in Islam.

I am grateful that Allah the Almighty has chosen me in Islam. Even now, I have christians in my home and i see what they do. Frankly, I do not want to be part of it. Do I leave the Eboos of Ijebuland and then go to a glorified Eboo that is called Christianity, just because of the Eurocenric nature, instead of African?

Should I worship a name like myself, just because he lived 2000 years ago and performed miracles? Where there no miracles of similar strength performed before him? Where there no reproductions like his in the animal kingdom? All I have to do is to go back to the worker termites and how they are produced from unfertilized eggs.

Should I worship a person born of a woman, the same way that I was born? Is there any difference in our births, except that my father was part of the miracle of my creation, while his had no father agency?

Finally should I leave his Lord, God alone, and worship him, when he is just a creation like me? Andyet I have the same Lord, God? Would I not be wronging my own soul, causing my own destruction? Why worship the creation, instead of the Creator?






[Quote]
I know that it is convenient for you to say that he was not a proper muslim, but you forgot to mention the position of his father and grandfather in the religion, the fact that he was taught from the koran from the kindergatten till he became a terrorist, and I am very sure that he knows more of the religion than either you or babs787 and can also speak Arabic fluently.
[/quote]

You don't know Jack, man! If Islam is an automatic inherittance, will there be a Christian among the Arabs? Will there be a muslim among the indigenous yanks? Indeed the west? And by the way just because you speak arabic does not make you a better muslim, or even a muslim! If that is the case John Esposito would have been one of the biggest Islamic Shekh in America.

I ask for good and sound belief, then knowledge that benefits and lastly is the mastery of Arabic language. See how much we differ, in our understanding of Islam and Arabs and Arabic?








[Quote]
The difference in when one becomes a Christian and when a person becomes a Muslim is that Christianity is not a label that you wear unlike those who think that they have Christian names, have been baptised, confirmed in a church or a church goer. Being born in a Christian home makes you no more a Christian than being born in a bakery makes you a loaf of bread. To be a Christian you have to involve your will, mind and heart in making a conscious decision in allowing Jesus to be your Saviour and Lord, to save you of your sins and to give you a new life by His grace, and when the Holy Spirit indwells you with the Truth it is only after this personal encounter with the Lord that you become a genuine Christian and the Christian journey begins, just as you can see in the testimonies in the weblink below. Babs 787 never had a personal encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ and this is evident in his misunderstanding of the scriptures which he misquotes "to his own destruction"
[/quote]

I know a few SUs in High School, and later in life, a few Jehovah witnesses, etc. No single one of them show the sign of meekness, by which i was able to identify them from a far distance! Olaadegbu, when will truth comes out of your mouth? Never, I think.

Wait for Jesus lo save you. I will deal directly with his Creator. That is the One who can truly save any soul. Jesus, am sorry to tell you that he will say he never knew you, when its time to say it. It is a guarantee.

2Peter 3:15-16

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

And you are quoting Peter to explain Jesus? Shouldn't Jesus be the one explaining himself, if he was truly what you said he is? Considering that you had claimed that he saw the future about his associate Judas Iscariot betraying him, then, he should be the one talking about his own future. But I get it, he did not truly know everything in the future, except what God allowed for him!







[Quote]
You are the one who brought up the idea of the Jews not believing in the trinity. The Messianic Jews are on the increase to the extent that Jewish rabbis are now catching the fire. I have noticed how you guys are quick to condemn people as liars, have you ever lied before? and if the answer is yes why don't you remove the log in your eyes before you remove the speck in theirs'.

Let us look into this week's testimony and see how he had a personal encounter with God.

http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/watch.asp
[/quote]

Get me a rabbanic scholar, talking about Trinity and I will give you two talking about One God! I will give you the whole of the Knesset of israel, then throwing the community in America with it. Now where are you gonna get your reformed and non practicing Jews to support your concept, except on Youtube?

The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart

And in this case God Almight Allah is One. There is never a trinity! Check it out in your Bible.

« #166 on: Today at 02:59:34 PM »
The Triune Comforter
by Henry Morris, Ph.D.

"Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God." (2 Corinthians 1:3-4)

One of the titles of the Holy Spirit, especially as used in the King James Version, is His beautiful identification as "the Comforter." The Greek word is parakletos, meaning literally, "one who is called along side to help." A familiar verse is John 14:26: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things. . . ." He is our teacher, our guide, our helper, our Comforter.

The same word is also translated "advocate," meaning an attorney for the defense. In this capacity, it is applied to the Lord Jesus Christ. "And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1). Though we are guilty and lost sinners, He takes our side before the Judge, pleading the sacrificial offering of His own blood for our sins, and we are saved (1 John 2:2).

Even the Father is our "paraclete," according to the verses cited above. He is "the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort" (Greek, paraklesis), and as we pray to our heavenly Father, He indeed does provide great consolation in every hour of trouble and sorrow.

Thus, each person of the Godhead--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--serves as Comforter ("paraclete" to the believer, as needed, who also has access to the "comfort of the scriptures" (Romans 15:4). But there is still another "comforter." Each believer receives such comfort so that we ourselves "may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God." HMM

Garbage! Thats french.

Mallam olabowale,

Calm down and listen to the voice of reason.  I am proud of my ethnic background just as you are but that does not subject me to its limitations.  My faith in the Lord Jesus Christ makes me to be crucified, dead, buried, raised, ascended and sitted together with Christ Jesus who is presently sitted on the right hand side of the Father, far above principalities and powers.  I have now become a partaker of the divine inheritance of the saints, this and more are available to you only if you will humble yourself and learn from those who have started this experience as in the weblink that I posted.  This is the only way you can have your sins, shame and guilt removed.  The only way you can wipe the slate clean and start a new life in Christ and become a new creation.  It is the only way that you can have the assurance of salvation or eternal life.

Olabowale, I know that you are closer to the grave than you have ever been, so this is the time for you to consider the personal experiences of those former muslims who have lived the same path that you are presently on and have now found hope for the future, new life for the present and forgiveness for their past sins.  Have you ever made a mistake in your life?  Can you ever be wrong?  I wonder how you will feel when you die and realise that this same Jesus Christ is the One to Judge you.  Your decision now will determine where you will spend your eternity.

Paul in the Bible did more than you are doing out of ignorance hoping that he was serving God.  When he was on his way to Damascus to arrest some Christians  he had a miraculous encounter with Jesus Christ, the brightness from Jesus blindfolded him and before he hit the ground he had got saved.   He said who are you Lord!  He called him Lord before he could get a reply to his question.  Guess who God used the most to preach the gospel.  Your guess is as good as mine.   Pick up the Bible and read all about it.

http://www.muslimjourneytohope.com/watch.asp

Find out more about Jesus:

http://www.cj2k.com/site/apps/s/inline.asp?c=dsJLK3PMJqH&b=368549

@olabowale,

The illustration in the weblink below sums up all that we have been trying to say. A picture says more than a thousand words.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp

@Olaadegbu: And your pictures or tapes and videos are all from "Fotoshops!"

Do you know that Jesus possesses the attributes that belong only to God?

Jesus is Eternal:   John 1:1 affirms: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”  The word was in this verse is an imperfect tense, indicating continuous, ongoing existence.  When the time-space universe came into being, Christ already existed (Heb.1:8-11).

Jesus is Self-Existent: As the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Col.1:16; Heb.1:2), Christ Himself must be uncreated.  Col. 1:17 tells us that Christ is “before all things, and in Him all things consist.”

Jesus is Everywhere Present: Christ promised His disciples, “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the mist of them” (Matt.18:20).  Since people all over the world gather in Christ’s name, the only way He could be present with them all is if He is truly omnipresent (Matt.28:20; Eph.1:23; 4:10; Col.3:11).

Jesus is All-knowing:   Jesus knew where the fish were in the water (Luke 5:4,6; John 21:6-11), and He knew just which fish contained the coin (Matt.17:27).  He knew the future (John 11:11; 18:14), specific details that would be encountered (Matt.21:2-4), and knew from a distance that Lazarus had died (John 11:14).  He also knows the Father as the Father knows Him (Matt.11:27; John 7:29; 8:55; 10:15; 17:25).

Jesus is All-Powerful: Christ created the entire universe (John 1:3; Col.1:16; Heb.1:2) and sustains the universe by His own Power (Col.1:17; Heb.1:3).  During His earthly ministry, He exercised power over nature (Luke 8:25), physical diseases (Mark 1:29-31), demonic spirits (Mark 1:32-34), and even death (John 11:1-44).

Jesus is Sovereign:   Christ presently sits at the right hand of God the Father, “angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him” (1Peter 3:22).  When Christ comes again in glory, He will be adorned with a majestic robe, and on the thigh section of the robe will be the words, “KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS” (Revelation 19:16).

Jesus is Sinless:   Jesus challenged the Jewish leaders: “Which of you convicts me of sin?” (John 8:46).  The apostle Paul referred to Jesus as “Him who knew no sin” (2 Cor.5:21).  Jesus is one who “loved righteousness and hated lawlessness” (Heb.1:9), was “without sin” (Heb.4:15), and was “holy”, harmless, [and] undefiled” (Heb. 7:26).

Who says that Jesus Christ is not the second Person in the Godhead?

Jesus himself

The Trinity

a word not found in Scripture, but used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr. trias, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa. 44:6; Mark 12:29, 32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

The Biblical Basis for the Godhead

The deity of Christ is intimately connected to the doctrine of the Godhead.  This doctrine affirms that there is only one God and that in the unity of the one Godhead there are three coequal and coeternal Persons – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

There is One God:  In the course of God’s self-disclosure to humankind, He revealed His nature in progressive stages.  First, God revealed that He is the only true God.  This was a necessary starting point for God’s self-revelation.  Throughout history, Israel was surrounded by pagan nations deeply engulfed in the belief that there are many gods.  Through the prophets, God communicated  to Israel that there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 32:39; Psalm 86:10; Isa.44:6).  Even at this early juncture, however, we find preliminary indications of the godhead in (Genesis 1:26; 11:7; Isa.6:8; 48:16).  God’s oneness is also emphasized in the New Testament (Rom.3:29-30; 1Cor.8:4; Gal.3:20; 1Thess.1:9; 1Tim.1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25)

The Father Is God:   As history unfolded, God progressively revealed more about Himself.  It eventually became clear that while there is only one God, there are three distinct persons within the one[b] godhead, [/b] each individually recognised as God (Matt.28:19). 

The Father, for example, is explicitly called God (John 6:27; Rom 1:7; Gal. 1:1; 1Peter 1:2).  He is also portrayed as having all the attributes of deity – such as being everywhere-present (Matt.19:26), all-knowing (Rom.11:33), all-powerful (1 Peter 1:5), holy (Revelation 15:4), and eternal (Psalm 90:2).

The Son Is God:   Jesus is also explicitly called “God” in scripture (Titus 2:13; Heb.1:8.).  And He, too, has all the attributes of deity – including being everywhere-present (Matt. 28:20), all-knowing (Matt.9:4), all-powerful (Matt.28:18), holy (Acts 3:14), and eternal (Rev.1:8, 17).

The Holy Spirit Is God:  The Holy Spirit is also recognised as God (Acts 5:3-4).  He too possesses the attributes of deity, including being everywhere-present (Psalm 139:7-9), all-knowing (1 Cor.2:10-11), all-powerful (Rom.15:19), holy (John 16:17-14), and eternal (Heb. 9:14).

Three-in-Oneness in the Godhead:  

Scriptures also indicate there is three-in-oneness in the godhead.  In Matthew 28:19, the resurrected Jesus instructed the disciples, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19).  The word name is singular in Greek, thereby indicating God’s oneness.  However, the definite articles in front of Father, Son and Holy Spirit (in the original Greek) indicate they are distinct personalities, even though there is just one God.

These distinct personalities relate to each other.  The Father and the Son, for example, know each other (Matthew 11:27), love each other (John 3:35), speak to each other (John 11:41-42).  The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus at His baptism (Luke 3:22), He is called another comforter or helper (John 14:16), He was sent by the Father and Jesus (John 15:26), and He seeks to glorify Jesus (John 16:13-14).

A Simple Analogy

A helpful analogy of the Godhead is that God is like a triangle that is one figure yet has three different sides (or corners) at the same time.  So there is a simultaneous threeness and oneness.  Of course, no analogy is perfect since in every analogy there is a similarity and a difference.  The difference here is that “sides” or “corners” are not persons.  Nonetheless, the triangle does illustrate how there can be threeness and oneness at the same time.  While there is one God, there are three persons within the One God.  QED.

The Godhead and the Christian

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." (2 Corinthians 13:14)

The doctrine of the triune God is unique to Christianity.  There is only one God, yet three Persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--each with His own distinct relation to mankind, yet each equally, fully, and eternally God.  Although these truths are implicit throughout the New Testament, the doctrine of the Trinity is seldom, if ever, presented therein explicitly as a formal doctrine.

There are several passages, however, where all three Persons are mentioned in the same context, and each one deals with a significant aspect of the Christian life.  There is, first of all, the provision of salvation, ". . . the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God" (Hebrews 9:14).  Then follows regeneration.  "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father" (Galatians 4:6).  Salvation and regeneration are then publicly testified in baptism "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

The chief resource of the believer is prayer, and this also involves all three Persons. "For through |Christ| we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father" (Ephesians 2:18).  He must also continue to learn of Christ, and to bear witness of Him. "The Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things" (John 14:26). "The Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness" (John 15:26-27).

Finally, in the words of our text, we have eternal assurance in the triune God. "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." HMM

Guess who the speaker here is;

Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Isaiah 48:16

OLAADEGBU:

Guess who the speaker here is;

Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Isaiah 48:16

thanks for the very insightful scriptures and analyses. They are very educating.

@Olaadegbu

Guess who the speaker here is;

Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Isaiah 48:16

You have turned to Davidylan that interpretes the bible wrongly to suite his limited knowledge.

We know its God speaking here but lets find out who He was speaking to.

God was speaking to stubborn Israel, the house of Jacob and told Isaiah some things. I notice that you people pick verse out of context forgetting that you would not be able to understand one without reading the other parts. Here are the verses in details telling them to leave Babylonian and it has nothing to do with Jesus.

Isaiah 48 v

1 "Listen to this, O house of Jacob,
you who are called by the name of Israel
and come from the line of Judah,
you who take oaths in the name of the LORD
and invoke the God of Israel—
but not in truth or righteousness-

2 you who call yourselves citizens of the holy city
and rely on the God of Israel—
the LORD Almighty is his name:

3 I foretold the former things long ago,
my mouth announced them and I made them known;
then suddenly I acted, and they came to pass.

4 For I knew how stubborn you were;
the sinews of your neck were iron,
your forehead was bronze.

5 Therefore I told you these things long ago;
before they happened I announced them to you
so that you could not say,
'My idols did them;
my wooden image and metal god ordained them.'

6 You have heard these things; look at them all.
Will you not admit them?
"From now on I will tell you of new things,
of hidden things unknown to you.

7 They are created now, and not long ago;
you have not heard of them before today.
So you cannot say,
'Yes, I knew of them.'

9 For my own name's sake I delay my wrath;
for the sake of my praise I hold it back from you,
so as not to cut you off.

10 See, I have refined you, though not as silver;
I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

12 "Listen to me, O Jacob,
Israel, whom I have called:
I am he;
I am the first and I am the last.

13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth,
and my right hand spread out the heavens;
when I summon them,
they all stand up together.

God still speaking above to Isaiah

14 "Come together, all of you, and listen:
Which of the idols has foretold these things?
The LORD's chosen ally
will carry out his purpose against Babylon;
his arm will be against the Babylonians. [a]

16 "Come near me and listen to this:
"From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
at the time it happens, I am there."
And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me,
with his Spirit.

Isaiah telling us that God sent him and it has nothing to do with JESUS.

17[b] This is what the LORD says—
your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:
"I am the LORD your God,
who teaches you what is best for you,
who directs you in the way you should go.[/b]

18 If only you had paid attention to my commands,
your peace would have been like a river,
your righteousness like the waves of the sea.


19 Your descendants would have been like the sand,
your children like its numberless grains;
their name would never be cut off
nor destroyed from before me."

LET US READ ON and you would see that it has nothing to do with Jesus but Isaiah and the house of Jacob telling them to leave Babylonian

20[b] Leave Babylon,
flee from the Babylonians!
Announce this with shouts of joy
and proclaim it.
Send it out to the ends of the earth;
say, "The LORD has redeemed his servant Jacob."[/b]

Noetic, Davidylan etc, I read the word 'servant' up.

21 They did not thirst when he led them through the deserts;
he made water flow for them from the rock;
he split the rock
and water gushed out.

22 "There is no peace," says the LORD, "for the wicked."
Isaiah 49
The Servant of the LORD
1 Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my birth he has made mention of my name.

I still read the word SERVANT above

@babs787,

I remember telling you some time ago that until you remove those Islamic glassess and get illuminated by the Holy Spirit, the word of God would continue to remain a mystery to your natural carnal and religious unbelieving mind because it only it becomes revelation knowledge to the spiritual man who has been spiritually born and is nutured by undiluted Word of God.

Let us consider the verse this time with eyes anointed with salve.

"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." -- Isaiah 48:16

You will see, unless you still have those opaque goggles on, that the speaker in the verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by the Lord God (the Father) and by His Spirit (the Holy Spirit).

It is becoming embarrassing and ridiculous the way you read the Bible, that you don't even believe is the Word of God, in justifying your unbelief.

@Olaadegbu


All I ask of you is, how does the verse relates to TRINITY? You know me too well when it comes to your bible, so no game playing with but business as usual

babs, remove the islamic glasses first, and you will see how that verse is related, cos you really need the illumination of the holy spirit to understand,
"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." -- Isaiah 48:16

probably if the islamic glasses did not let you see that well. slave. chaiiiiiiiiiiii, olorun o ni se mi leru ooooooooooooooo

Lo, I Come
June 7, 2009

"Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God." (Hebrews 10:7)

These marvelous words (in Hebrews 10:5-7) are an interpretive quotation from Psalm 40:6-8, which in turn was being cited prophetically as the testimony of the eternal Son of God as He prepared to leave heaven and "the bosom of the Father" (note John 1:18) to descend to earth to become also "the Son of man," with no "where to lay his head" (Matthew 8:20).

He first took up residence on earth in the womb of Mary, then in a manger, then a house in Bethlehem, then somewhere in Egypt until the death of King Herod who had tried to kill Him, then in the home of his foster father in a despised village, eventually on a cross on which His enemies would impale Him, and finally for three days in a borrowed tomb.

And all this, amazingly, was to do the will of His Father in heaven, which He fully understood would include the terrible death of the cross. "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again" (John 10:17).

We can never comprehend such love--only believe it and receive it. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Now we can testify with Paul "the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God |His faith, not ours!|, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Galatians 2:20).

But anyone who ignores that love should note this sobering truth: "He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18). HMM

noetic:

thanks for the very insightful scriptures and analyses. They are very educating.

Unto God be all the glory for the great things He has done. I must also thank God for you for the numerous illuminating posts you have raised on this forum. God richly bless you.

The Trinity In The Old Testament
by Henry Morris, Ph.D.

"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and His Spirit, hath sent me" (Isaiah 48:16).

It is significant that Biblical Christianity is the only Trinitarian religion-and therefore the only true religion-in the world.  Most religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, etc.) are pantheistic and humanistic, denying the existence of an omnipotent God who created the space/time cosmos.  There are two other major religions, however, that are monotheistic, believing in the God of creation and in the creation record in Genesis-Judaism and Islam.

However, these two fail to understand that the Creator must also be the Redeemer, and therefore they also become humanistic, believing that man must achieve salvation by his own efforts.  Further, they also fail to acknowledge that God's objective work of redemption must be made subjective in each person by the indwelling personal presence of the omnipresent Creator/Redeemer.

All this is beautifully revealed in the New Testament in the doctrine of the tri-une God-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit- one God in three Persons, incomprehensible to human understanding, perhaps, yet very real (see John 15:26; etc.).

This wonderful revelation of the Godhead was foreshadowed in the very beginning-the Father creating; the Spirit moving; the Son speaking (Genesis 1:1-3).  In our text above, again it is the Son (as the living Word of God) prophesying about His coming mission of redemption, saying that "the Lord God, and His Spirit, hath sent me."

Then, when He had finished His work and could return to the Father, He promised the coming of "the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name," and that He would "abide with you for ever" (John 14:26,16). HMM

@OLAADEGBU
I have gone through your thread and i am yet to come across a single shred of evidence that the trinity concept is biblical even the 1John5:7 which you gleefully quote has been acknowledged to be a deliberate mis-translation based on twisted scripture when the catholics were being overzealous in proving the divinity of Jesus. As i stated earlier if the concept was true it would have been clearly stated in the bible and men would not have needed to smuggle it into the bible 4 centuries later.

KunleOshob:

@OLAADEGBU
I have gone through your thread and i am yet to come across a single shred of evidence that the trinity concept is biblical even the 1John5:7 which you gleefully quote has been acknowledged to be a deliberate mis-translation based on twisted scripture when the catholics were being overzealous in proving the divinity of Jesus. As i stated earlier if the concept was true it would have been clearly stated in the bible and men would not have needed to smuggle it into the bible 4 centuries later.

So in all the biblical references made from Genesis to Revolution Revelation it is only 1 John 5:7 that caught your attention.   What happened to all the verses both in the OT and NT coupled with the paradox and analogies that have been used to illustrate the Godhead.  The fact that you cannot see the word "Trinity" written does not mean that the concept is not all over the Bible.  If it is the word "Trinity" coined by those men outside the scripture is the problem you must realise that the word Godhead which is a word used to describe the tri-une God is clearly written in scripture, so you have no excuse.  Read it here:

For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
-- Romans 1:20

What should be of real importance to you is that the concept that is REPRESENTED by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit.  Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism.  Seen in this is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of 3 distinct persons in the Trinity.

All you have to do even if you don't understand it now is to believe and recieve the undiluted Word of God so that you can see the glory of God.  You may not understand the physics and mechanism behind the computer but that does not stop you from using it because you know it works.  If everyone has to fully comprehend the mechanics of the technological equipment before they use them then only a few scientists would have the privilege to use them.  Repent and believe the glorious gospel and you will see the glory of the Lord.

For there is only one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.

God is not a trinity. He is One PERSON. Not 3 but 1. Not 1/3.

Jesus is Lord but not God. Confusion doctrines cannot save. Believe the truth.

ifele:

For there is only one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.

God is not a trinity. He is One PERSON. Not 3 but 1. Not 1/3.

Jesus is Lord but not God. Confusion doctrines cannot save. Believe the truth.

The doctrine of the Trinity — that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God — is admittedly difficult to comprehend, and yet is the very foundation of Christian truth. Although skeptics may ridicule it as a mathematical impossibility, it is nevertheless a basic doctrine of Scripture as well as profoundly realistic in both universal experience and in the scientific understanding of the cosmos.

Both Old and New Testaments teach the Unity and the Trinity of the Godhead. The idea that there is only one God, who created all things, is repeatedly emphasized in such Scriptures as Isaiah 45:18:

“For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God Himself that formed the earth and made it; …I am the Lord; and there is none else.”

A New Testament example is James 2:19:

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble.”

The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

“I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.”

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).

The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:

“But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me.”

Then there is the baptismal formula:

“baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 28:19).

One name (God) — yet three names!

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t002.html

@ topic
my pastor described Holy Trinity like a father whose children bear his surname.for example i bear my daddy's surname and so do the other children of my daddy. That is how i understand. Anyother opinions?