MaxInDHouse:


In the first century a man was known among the Jews who claims to be their Messiah.
Instead of doing what they expected he was busy doing what he was programmed to do.
Most of his contemporaries including many of his friends deserted him for this reason.
By the end the religious rulers among the Jews decided to do away with him and bury his case but his loyalists were ready to take his teachings everywhere they go even if it means their lives.
2000 years later people still remember this man due to all the things written by his loyal and faithful friends, and today millions across the globe are practicing what he taught so that a global family of peace loving worshipers have emerged due to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth!

OK nice this is your summary right?

Nice.

oteneaaron:
I decided to post this here for posterity sake.

MaxInDHouse pray tell how have you "humiliated" me on this thread??



For the sake of posterity, kindly do a summary the points you have raised so far, to prove that Jesus is a real figure in history, and I will exactly the same thing.

So much has been said on this thread.

Therfore, I think it will be good if we summarized our points so far, so that you can show exactly how you have humiliated me on this thread.

Thank you very much.

For anyone just joining this thread, these are the points we were meant to address in this debate:

1. Jesus really existed and is not a Mythical Figure,

2. Jesus really existed based on archeological findings, and

3. The life and teachings of Jesus is original and not copied from HORUS of ancient Egypt and many other Christ figures like Dionysus, Bacchus, Mythiras but to mention a few.

Here is my own summary. - you can pick each point and prove me wrong.

Did Jesus really exist or is he just a myth?

My answer was NO - he never existed and is just a myth and these were my reasons:

1. The earliest text in the new testament was the letters of Paul, which was written a few decades after the "death" of Jesus.

But when studying the words of Paul, he never made mention to an actual literal Jesus.

He only referred to Christ-in-you, a spiritual Christ and not a physical man.

Why would he do that if Jesus actually did exist and he only died a few decades before Paul wrote his letters?

2. The first recorded Gospel, was that of Mark - and he throughout his work, he never spoke about the birth of Jesus.

More so, there is no record to show that Mark was an actual eye witness to the life and times of Jesus.

Another major problem was that the other Gospels of Mathew and Luke are basically plagarised copies of Mark.

Why would Mathew and Luke who were supposed to be eye witnesses copy almost word for word from Mark who himself was not even an eye witness?

It is also on record that the authors of the Gospel of Mathew and Luke were not really the disciples of Jesus.

So who really wrote these Gospels?

3. Why do the Gospels contradict each other if they were all eye witnesses to the life and times of Jesus?

For one, these guys saw Jesus with their own eyes and still, their stories cannot corollate - why?

A careful study of the Gospels features a different type of Jesus for every account.

If he really did exist, and these writers were eye witnesses, then surely their stories should NEVER contradict each other in the first place.

Did Jesus really exist based on archeological findings?

This is another resounding NO - till date there is no reliable archeological finding that proves Jesus actually existed.

MaxinDhouse mentioned that Josephus Flavius spoke about Jesus in the Antiquities of the Jews.

But that was debunked as well.

We found out that is was just a forgery worked on by the dubious Bishop Eusebius of Caeserra 300 years after the actual Antiquities were first written.

But Max made a u-turn and said Josephus spoke about John the baptist.

I still ask, does the mention of John Baptist now prove that Jesus actually did exist?

Another resounding NO.

So this means that there is NO actual archeological proof to show that Jesus actually did exist.

I also spoke of a Major event mentioned in the Gospels, that happened the day Jesus died - we learn that there was an eclipse, dead people were littered the streets, there was an earthquake, and the curtain in the holy of holes was ripped apart.

Till date, there is NO actual record in history that mentions the above event, even though we know that millions of people were alive at that time.

So does this also prove that Jesus existed?

Another rounding NO.


Is the life and teachings of Jesus original or are they copied from HORUS of ancient Egypt?

The answer is another resounding NO.

The story of Jesus is not unique, neither is it original.

I spoke about the Rosetta Stone that was found in the early 1800s by an officer in Napoleons army.

This Rosetta Stone has been the tool many historians and archeologists have been able to use to translate the hieroglyphics on the walls and texts from ancient Egypt.

And a careful study of the temple of Luxor in Egypt has shown that HORUS who predates the Bible and Jesus by over 2000 years, has a very uncanny life and story similar to Jesus.

Just like HORUS, Jesus was born of a virgin, born on 25th December, gave a sermon on the mount, resurrected after 3 days, etc.

So who copied who?

Obviously, the ancient Egyptian mystery religion came first and is the source from which every other religion including Christianity owes its roots.

I am very open to interjections from anyone who will prove any of my points wrong.

MaxInDHouse pray tell, how did you "humiliate" me on this thread?

I would honestly like to know.

For your viewing pleasure:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMado9ukLt0

oteneaaron:

Why should we depend only on the Gospels when we have seen that they were written at least over 70 years after Jesus was said to have died?

Do you believe that Isaac Newton, Benjamin Franklin, Karl Benz, Wright Brothers once lived on this planet?
Well i would doubt if there's nothing to show for their works.
Today the world need peace but it seems so impossible all because humans are selfish and self-centered.
But on this same planet today millions of people have vowed never to raise weapons against their fellowman again due to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

So your question again why should we depend on what those four guys penned down?

Because it's working out positivity Sir!

MaxInDHouse:


Do you believe that Isaac Newton, Benjamin Franklin, Karl Benz, Wright Brothers once lived on this planet?
Well i would doubt if there's nothing to show for their works.
Today the world need peace but it seems so impossible all because humans are selfish and self-centered.
But on this same planet today millions of people have vowed never to raise weapons against their fellowman again due to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

So your question again why should we depend on what those four guys penned down?

Because it's working out positivity Sir!

But it still doesn't prove that Jesus was an actual figure in history.

oteneaaron:

But it still doesn't prove that Jesus was an actual figure in history.

To an agent of the intelligence like me written documents is never sufficient enough as proof to convince us when talking about past events but aftermath results matters to us!
So if you think you have anything to debunk the existence of Jesus of Nazareth present it today.
Few Jews back then were journalists (scribes) and they were all under the control of the Jewish religious leaders who wanted to bury Jesus' case. So if documented records from four Witnesses who lived during the first century, saw Jesus and walked with him aren't enough for you well that shows the difference between you and i Sir!

oteneaaron:
MaxInDHouse pray tell, how did you "humiliate" me on this thread?
I would honestly like to know.

I thought you will present a first century Jewish journalist who penned down events that occured during the first century but never mentioned anything in connection with Jesus of Nazareth but instead you're here presenting the arguments of people who lived centuries later.
So what exactly do you call a research?
Is it the arguments of those people or what you yourself read about events during the first century that omitted Jesus of Nazareth?

oteneaaron:

For your viewing pleasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMado9ukLt0

Do you think the producers of these lived in the first century or you just swallowed what they presented to you because you support their opinion?

MaxInDHouse:


To an agent of the intelligence like me written documents is never sufficient enough as proof to convince us when talking about past events but aftermath results matters to us!

So if you think you have anything to debunk the existence of Jesus of Nazareth present it today.

Few Jews back then were journalists (scribes) and they were all under the control of the Jewish religious leaders who wanted to bury Jesus' case.

So if documented records from four Witnesses who lived during the first century, saw Jesus and walked with him aren't enough for you well that shows the difference between you and i Sir!

It is quite obvious that you didn't even read any of the things I have written.

What is the proof that the writers of Gospels were actual eye witnesses?

Why do the Gospels contradict each other?

Was Mark also a disciple of Jesus and thus an eye witness?

What is the proof that the Gospels were written by the same people who they were named after?

Why should the proof that Jesus existed depend only on the four Gospels?

Where is the proof that "scribes" were under the control of the Jewish religious leaders?

You still haven't proved to me that Jesus was a real figure from history.

Till now apart from the conflicting mentions you made about Josephus, you have still not shown me archeological proof of the existence of Jesus.

Or are you saying archeological evidence is not important?

I think it is high time we allow other people comment on this thread, because it is starting to look like we're running around in circles.

MaxInDHouse:


Do you think the producers of these lived in the first century or you just swallowed what they presented to you because you support their opinion?

This is an ignorant statement and shouldn't be coming from a former intelligence officer of your standing.

MaxInDHouse:

I thought you will present a first century Jewish journalist who penned down events that occured during the first century but never mentioned anything in connection with Jesus of Nazareth but instead you're here presenting the arguments of people who lived centuries later.

So what exactly do you call a research?

Is it the arguments of those people or what you yourself read about events during the first century that omitted Jesus of Nazareth?

So is this how you have "humiliated" me?

oteneaaron:

It is quite obvious that you didn't even read any of the things I have written.
What is the proof that the writers of Gospels were actual eye witnesses?
Why do the Gospels contradict each other?
Was Mark also a disciple of Jesus and thus an eye witness?

They were all eye Witnesses but the event each person saw differs from what they heard from others who saw things Jesus did in the the presence of the writers.

oteneaaron:

What is the proof that the Gospels were written by the same people who they were named after?
Why should the proof that Jesus existed depend only on the four Gospels?
Where is the proof that "scribes" were under the control of the Jewish religious leaders?

According to the laws their God gave them it's on the account of two or three Witnesses that any case should be established {Deuteronomy 17:6;19:15} the scribes were a section of the priestly office and they're working hand in hand with the Jewish religious leaders who wanted to bury Jesus' case.
So if you're not convinced with the account of four different individuals that's just your own personal trait it doesn't affect me.

oteneaaron:

You still haven't proved to me that Jesus was a real figure from history.
Till now apart from the conflicting mentions you made about Josephus, you have still not shown me archeological proof of the existence of Jesus.
Or are you saying archeological evidence is not important?
I think it is high time we allow other people comment on this thread, because it is starting to look like we're running around in circles.

You have your heart and i've got mine so it's not my duty to convince you after both of us have considered what is WRITTEN, you choose to believe what you want and i also choose mine!

oteneaaron:

This is an ignorant statement and shouldn't be coming from a former intelligence officer of your standing.

Come on, producers of anything are trying to make money from what they're producing so when you download their videos they make money. Of course Jesus' case is one that most people will like to trade with nah.
Sorry i'm discussing with someone who doesn't know that bloggers fabricate stories just to create traffic!

oteneaaron:

So is this how you have "humiliated" me?

I've not seen anything in what you call research except arguments from people who lived centuries after Jesus of Nazareth.
Please their opinion doesn't count to me!

MaxInDHouse:


They were all eye Witnesses but the event each person saw differs from what they heard from others who saw things Jesus did in the the presence of the writers.

Come Again?

@ Oteneaaron.
Apart from you who feels you're not convinced about Jesus' historicity what is your conclusion? Or do you think everyone should just agree with you that since you're not convinced that is enough evidence that Jesus never existed?

oteneaaron:

Come Again?

You saw what i typed nah!

MaxInDHouse:

According to the laws their God gave them it's on the account of two or three Witnesses that any case should be established {Deuteronomy 17:6;19:15} the scribes were a section of the priestly office and they're working hand in hand with the Jewish religious leaders who wanted to bury Jesus' case.

So if you're not convinced with the account of four different individuals that's just your own personal trait it doesn't affect me.

Is this the proof that Jesus truly existed?

Do you have ANY reference to an actual statement that says the "scribes were working hand in hand with the Jewish religious leaders bury Jesus's case" ?

MaxInDHouse:
@ Oteneaaron.
Apart from you who feels you're not convinced about Jesus' historicity what is your conclusion? Or do you think everyone should just agree with you that since you're not convinced that is enough evidence that Jesus never existed?

You should ask yourself the same question.

With what you have stated so far, have you proven that Jesus truly existed and is not a myth?

MaxInDHouse:

I've not seen anything in what you call research except arguments from people who lived centuries after Jesus of Nazareth.
Please their opinion doesn't count to me!

So is this how you "humiliated" me?

By joves oteneaaron has no chill from what i've read he thoroughly made is research while MaxInDHouse believe he already knows what he needed because oteneaaron just kept debunking whatever he brought up as if he already knew he'll bring it up MaxInDHouse came here to disgrace someone but he his being dragged through the mud damn if i were a christian if this doesn't make me lose my faith it will make me question it like from my own point of view MaxInDHouse kept bringing up what i'll call what-if statement i.e if this happened then that must have happened will the oteneaaron patiently explain is point of view like he is just spitting out fact let just stop here before i start to worship the dude given him the praise he fuely deserve bro i salute you
note: i neither a christian nor an athiest i just believe i'm intelligent enough to understand although i hate this kind of debate(debacle?) because it changes nothing at the end of the day non of you will change your believes so what the point

MaxInDHouse:

Come on, producers of anything are trying to make money from what they're producing so when you download their videos they make money. Of course Jesus' case is one that most people will like to trade with nah.
Sorry i'm discussing with someone who doesn't know that bloggers fabricate stories just to create traffic!

This is exactly what an ignorant person would say.

I can bet my left balls that you didn't even watch the video.

Yet you jumped into conclusions.

oteneaaron:

Is this the proof that Jesus truly existed?
Do you have ANY reference to an actual statement that says the "scribes were working hand in hand with the Jewish religious leaders bury Jesus's case" ?

Come on, you don't believe in the records of eyewitnesses so how else do you expect me to prove what both of us never witnessed nah?

MaxInDHouse:

You saw what i typed nah!

Read it again.

They were all eye Witnesses but the event each person saw differs from what they heard from others who saw things Jesus did in the the presence of the writers.

Does it make any sense?

MaxInDHouse:


Come on, you don't believe in the records of eyewitnesses so else how do you expect me to prove what both of us never witnessed nah?

So there is no actual reference?

Are you saying you made that up?

We are in the age of enlightenment, don't let anybody fool you again people, search for yourself, use your special ability (ability to think) to it's capacity and you will discover the truth about religion. It is humans that created god and not the other way round, and religion is a tool for control and nothing more. I was a christian but critical thinking made me to start questioning so many things without getting answers. The biggest question for christians is why the Bible (the supposed word of god) so contradict itself, from the old testament to the new testament. Open your eyes na.
Imagine people living up to almost 1000yrs, animals talking, jesus walking on water, feeding thousands of people with five loaves and 2 fishes etc, all these and many more fables in the Bible, come on

oteneaaron:

You should ask yourself the same question.
With what you have stated so far, have you proven that Jesus truly existed and is not a myth?

I already told you what we believe and it's about the aftermath results in whatever thing people say or write.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth walked this planet but since only his loyal followers believe him they penned down what he said and today a global family of peace loving worshipers emerged through the teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Perhaps you don't know what that means to a soldier like myself so let me tell you!

Our PRIMARY duty as soldiers is not to kill people but to make our enemies surrender their weapons and accept dialogue but when that doesn't work then we go for our weapons.

Now this is what it will cost us to settle matters if the enemies refuses to retreat:

What is WAR?
Bombs that cost $ 100,000 Dropping from a plane that costs $ 100,000,000 flying at a cost of $ 40,000 per hour to kill people living with less than $1 a day.

But the teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth has done what all that could do without force or bloodshed.
His true followers (Jehovah's Witnesses) have erased the use of weapons not only from the hands of millions around the world but made them to vow never to raise weapons against anyone again!

What is the weapon this group is using?
Well it's just the teachings of that first century Jewish man called Jesus of Nazareth!

Well if you think he's just a myth then the writers of such a myth have done the best job ever in the history of mankind!

oteneaaron:

This is exactly what an ignorant person would say. I can bet my left balls that you didn't even watch the video.
Yet you jumped into conclusions.

Of course i won't waste my data nah!
Is this not what you've been crying all these while and by the end of the day all you could bring here is arguments of people who never lived in the first century!

oteneaaron:

Read it again.
Does it make any sense?

Well it does to me!

MaxInDHouse:


I already told you what we believe and it's about the aftermath results in whatever thing people say or write.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth walked this planet but since only his loyal followers believe him they penned down what he said and today a global family of peace loving worshipers emerged through the teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Perhaps you don't know what that means to a soldier like myself so let me tell you!

Our PRIMARY duty as soldiers is not to kill people but to make our enemies surrender their weapons and accept dialogue but when that doesn't work then we go for our weapons.

Now this is what it will cost us to settle matters if the enemies refuses to retreat:

What is WAR?
Bombs that cost $ 100,000 Dropping from a plane that costs $ 100,000,000 flying at a cost of $ 40,000 per hour to kill people living with less than $1 a day.

But the teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth has done what all that could do without force or bloodshed.
His true followers (Jehovah's Witnesses) have erased the use of weapons not only from the hands of millions around the world but made them to vow never to raise weapons against anyone again!

What is the weapon this group is using?
Well it's just the teachings of that first century Jewish man called Jesus of Nazareth!

Well if you think he's just a myth then the writers of such a myth have done the best job ever in the history of mankind!

Lol.

Still doesn't prove Jesus truly existed as a real figure in history.

gsegun43:
We are in the age of enlightenment, don't let anybody fool you again people, search for yourself, use your special ability (ability to think) to it's capacity and you will discover the truth about religion. It is humans that created god and not the other way round, and religion is a tool for control and nothing more. I was a christian but critical thinking made me to start questioning so many things without getting answers. The biggest question for christians is why the Bible (the supposed word of god) so contradict itself, from the old testament to the new testament. Open your eyes na.
Imagine people living up to almost 1000yrs, animals talking, jesus walking on water, feeding thousands of people with five loaves and 2 fishes etc, all these and many more fables in the Bible, come on

gsegun43:

The meaning of life is whatever meaning you give to it. Life can be meaningless actually.
Every individual I'd trying to survive, the strong prey on the weak and it continues like that. Nothing more.

Never mind Sir, people with hope will always see matters from a different perspective from hopeless ones!