OAM4J:

@Ola

Am not an economist, but If I get you right, are you saying nothing stops CBN from engaging in commercial activities? So CBN can open its own commercial banks too, set up its own construction companies, Agric farms etc and still remain an unbiased regulator? Some ends dont justify the means and you dont have to be an Economist to know that.

If I decide to discuss this, you would say "I said I'm not into econs"

ola olabiy:

Hahaaaaaaaa. Mu he he he

You said the bank does not generate reveue, didn't you?

Dude, for a minute I thought u had it, but u lost it again, I pity the,


Again CBN does not generate revenues for the govt; like my previous post stated, through it profit sharing, it returns a portion of it profit to the treasury. The profit returned is not called revenues brother, and the govt (finance ministry) does not call it revenues but called other income. I hope u know why it isn't called revenue BUT income, and because it's the fed, that status doesn't change.

ola olabiy:



If I decide to discuss this, you would say "I said I'm not into econs"

me i dey here to learn o. So abeg discuss make I learn.

OAM4J:

@Ola

Am not an economist, but If I get you right, are you saying nothing stops CBN from engaging in commercial activities? So CBN can open its own commercial banks too, set up its own construction companies, Agric farms etc and still remain an unbiased regulator? Some ends dont justify the means and you dont have to be an Economist to know that.

The govt is running NITEL alongside MTN and GLO, any problemo?

The govt ran NICON before it sold it/divested some of her shares


And yes, the govt can go into any sector, run it and make more money for us .

The reason the CBN wont be able to do that :

1) The CBN has a lot on her plate already

2) Govt is bad at running business, so it would be stupiddddd for them to run a business if they do not have comparative advantage.


So why would CBN running any sector not bad?

Because this is democracy, the government would have to run the business under the same rule and harsh economic conditions as other private businesses. Failure to follow laid down rules would and may land them where they do not want. No govt likes to be sued, so they have to play by the rules.

This is democracy baby,  ( RULE OF LAW COUNTRY) we are no more under Abacha. The government is your friend.

They are under the same rule as the rest of us.

manny4life:


Dude, for a minute I thought u had it, but u lost it again, I pity the,


Again CBN does not generate revenues for the govt; like my previous post stated, through it profit sharing, it returns a portion of it profit to the treasury. The profit returned is not called revenues brother, and the govt (finance ministry) does not call it revenues but called other income. I hope u know why it isn't called revenue BUT income, and because it's the fed, that status doesn't change.

Ode.

You said revenue doesn't mean and cannot be substituted for income, didn't you?

Read this:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/revenue

Now, keep shut.

ola olabiy:

Ode.

You said revenue doesn't mean and cannot be substituted for income, didn't you?

Read this:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/revenue

Now, keep shut.

I did?


Please quote me because u sound very confused now,


Why do I need to see definition of revenue? When I can give you in-depth details of revenues, types of revenues, how it's calculated, I can write a whole page of just revenue, please come up with something else

I've always maintained my stand; CBN does not generate revenues for the govt, perhaps it would have been more subtle and maybe acceptable if u said generates income, that would have made more sense.

ola olabiy:

derail, how?

Standing up to our all knowing, google toting Katsumoto eh?

Dont do that!

manny4life:


I did?


Please quote me because u sound very confused now,


Why do I need to see definition of revenue? When I can give you in-depth details of revenues, types of revenues, how it's calculated, I can write a whole page of just revenue, please come up with something else

I've always maintained my stand; CBN does not generate revenues for the govt, perhaps it would have been more subtle and maybe acceptable if u said generates income, that would have made more sense.

You see. You made a fo.ol of yourself.

You can say income. You can say revenue:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/revenue


Moreover, the issue you raised isn't important.

iragbijile:

Standing up to our all knowing, google toting Katsumoto eh?

Dont do that!

He's not all-knowing. He never claimed to be one.

You just want me to confront him. He's my friend, you know.

manny4life:


I did?


Please quote me because u sound very confused now,


Why do I need to see definition of revenue? When I can give you in-depth details of revenues, types of revenues, how it's calculated, I can write a whole page of just revenue, please come up with something else

I've always maintained my stand; CBN does not generate revenues for the govt, perhaps it would have been more subtle and maybe acceptable if u said generates income, that would have made more sense.

manny4life:


An income is different from revenues, pls get your facts straight.

I knew you'd deny saying it, i.diot.

Now, teach me, embarrassed goat.

ola olabiy:

You see. You made a fo.ol of yourself.

You can say income. You can say revenue:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/revenue


Moreover, the isue you raised isn't important.

He's not ll-knowing. He never claimed to be one.

You just want me to confront him. He's my friend, you.

Fool of myself? LOL, seriously? If the best accounting and finance textbooks known to man support my theory even that which u used in college support my theory, what do I care about someone from Oxford Dictionary who just wrote not even a full sentence but just a line with few words about definition of revenue. Kinda sounds demeaning to me, you and I very well know, if asked in an exam, you will skip oxford and mark the answer from your textbook.


Again i still maintain my stand; there is a clear difference between revenues and income.

ola olabiy:

Ode.

You said revenue doesn't mean and cannot be substituted for income, didn't you?

Read this:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/revenue

Now, keep shut.

ola olabiy:

I knew you'd deny saying it, i.diot.

Now, teach me, embarrassed goat.

I believe Nairalanders can discern between the both; I will leave it to them because you don't seem to understand what you asked and what I said, lol, Confusion is a big problem .

manny4life:



I believe Nairalanders can discern between the both; I will leave it to them because you don't seem to understand what you asked and what I said, lol, Confusion is a big problem .

In an accounting class, they are different. On a forum like this, you can say revenue. That shouldn't have occupied your time, imo
Now sha, you agree that a central bank can engage in something profitable.

That does not mean I support Sanusi

ola olabiy:

Now sha, you agree that a central bank can engage in something.

Agree to what? Engage in what? Please what part of my stance isn't clear?


On that note, please if u gonna quote me, quote me like how I said it, I've done same to you, I mean not that I care but it courtesy to say it like how I said it.

manny4life:


Agree to what? Engage in what? Please what part of my stance isn't clear?


On that note, please if u gonna quote me, quote me like how I said it, I've done same to you,  I mean not that I care but it courtesy to say it like how I said it.

Did I change your posts for you?

Well CBN like I stated previously engages in for-profit market operations for instance securities and not commercial operations like building hotels and fish farming, hope that helps

manny4life:

Well CBN like I stated previously engages in for-profit market operations for instance securities and not commercial operations like building hotels and fish farming, hope that helps

May be you are right.

But, what about buying limited companies?

manny4life:

Well CBN like I stated previously engages in for-profit market operations for instance securities and not commercial operations like building hotels and fish farming, hope that helps

So, no CB has ever done this?

ola olabiy:

May be you are right.

But, what about buying limited companies?

Well if CBN is building hotels and fish farming, nothing is stopping CBN from buying limited companies, just that regulators are not to be involved in business operations with the public. If the limited companies are a form of special investment vehicle, there are special clause to that effect, but on a general scale as a commercial public operation, IMO that is unacceptable.

ola olabiy:

So, no CB has ever done this?

I know at least not in developed / developing nations including the western and most developing Middle East / Asian countries.

manny4life:


Well if CBN is building hotels and fish farming, nothing is stopping CBN from buying limited companies, just that regulators are not to be involved in business operations with the public. If the limited companies are a form of special investment vehicle, there are special clause to that effect, but on a general scale as a commercial public operation, IMO that is unacceptable.


I know at least not in developed / developing nations including the western and most developing Middle East / Asian countries.

Gold is a commodity, you know. The CBN might want to have better access to it

ola olabiy:

Gold is a commodity, you know. The CBN might want to have better access to it

Yeah gold is commodity; pretty much all raw mineral resources as well as materials are commodities.CBN can decide to hold few of it's reserve in gold like U.S. does; if it decides to trade gold, but I don't know why it would need gold. I was reading a report from a well know analyst on Wall Street, I'll try to find his name (I saved his info though, just never bought his materials), he said while the volume and price of gold goes up for the next few years, compared to for instance silver, the ROI is declining in gold, hence the reason why U.S.is gradually losing their Gold stock

Somebody needs to call you guys to order
Congratulations, both of you passed English with "A"s, however, the question is whether our CBN should be focused on raising chickens, baking cookies, and operating hotels?
Personally, I don't think it should, but Ola if you know of any other country worthy of our emulation whose central bank enagages in this sort of retail commerce, please educate us me.

naijaking1:

Somebody needs to call you guys to order
Congratulations, both of you passed English with "A"s, however, the question is whether our CBN should be focused on raising chickens, baking cookies, and operating hotels?
Personally, I don't think it should, but [b]Ola if you know of any other country worthy of our emulation whose central bank enagages in this sort of retail commerce, please educate us me.[/b]

That is the question that I have been waiting for an answer for, its been two days now. As simple as the question is, there are no takers.

naijaking1:

Somebody needs to call you guys to order
Congratulations, both of you passed English with "A"s, however, the question is whether our CBN should be focused on raising chickens, baking cookies, and operating hotels?
Personally, I don't think it should, but Ola if you know of any other country worthy of our emulation whose central bank enagages in this sort of retail commerce, please educate us me.

Katzumoto c/o/c/k-sucker:

So if there  are other CBs "raising chickens, baking cookies, and operating hotels." then SLS is Brilliant, but if there are no other examples, SLS is mediocre and over-hyped?


Maybe you should start by telling us where SLS stated he is interested in "raising chickens, baking cookies, and operating hotels."


Impressive!

iragbijile:

Katzumoto c/o/c/k-sucker:

So if there are other CBs "raising chickens, baking cookies, and operating hotels." then SLS is Brilliant, but if there are no other examples, SLS is mediocre and over-hyped?
Maybe you should start by telling us where SLS stated he is interested in "raising chickens, baking cookies, and operating hotels."
Impressive!

Are you the only here who has not read about the CBN's intention to go into poultry and other end retail businesses? I wouldn't respond to your name calling, but I'll help educate you on what's going on with regards to the same CBN you're here to defend very "bravely" and with all your might.

You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-705624.0.html

Please follow the link here on N/L, already quoted by Katsumoto, but since you argue without facts, read and convince yourself.
If you see any thing on the link about poultry(chickens), please bury your head in shame, otherwise just go to bed.

Iragbijile has been doing everything possible to irk Katsumoto. I commend the even-tempered nature of Katsumoto. I also congratulate Katz for not descending so low; even though his emotion might be instructing him otherwise. Someone signature goes like this, "Idiots drag u down to their level and beat you silly with their yrs of experience". Using insultive language during debate shows that you have no point to make. It also says something about your upbringing and your level of education.

I'm still waiting for Ola OlabiY to to post a link of an apex bank that engages in competitive venture or retail commerce.

I chuckled at a link posted by Ola OlabiY on the definition of revenue. That's too simplified. Please look up for the economists definition of revenue. Can Oxford dictionary definition of 'health' and Medical dictionary definition of 'health' be the same?

The debate so far has been healthy and I commend everyone involved. The myth of Sanusi's brilliancy has been busted. Nigerians deserves to know their CBN governor better. We should know that there is a cost to pay whenever a charlatan is saddled with any sensitive post in the land.

This debate needs to be propagated further to reach a wider audience; since it's only a tiny fraction of Nigerians that have access to internet. I'm looking forward to read article on this topic in one of our national daily.

I enjoin Katsumoto to bring up the remaining sub-topics on this debate in his file.

[b]ANY staff within these banks will easily tell you how life has been taken out of these banks where CBN installed its own management. For almost two years, all the eight banks under CBN have seen their financial situation deteriorate into critical states. Most members of the CBN installed management were failed managers in their various institutions until the CBN picked them up to come and manage institutions that were far bigger than any institution they have ever managed before their appointment.

What has emerged in the two years of CBN installed management are banks without direction and staff that are highly demoralized. Figures obtained from the CBN clearly show that at the close of 2010, all the CBN taken over banks were highly dependent on the interbank market. Of the N900 billion inter-bank takings as the close of 2010, the eight CBN managed banks accounted for over 90 per cent of these takings. These were the same banks that when the CBN took over, he told the world that their indebtedness to the interbank market stood at N247 billion. Now even after pumping in N620 billion into these banks, after they have sold their toxic assets, their net interbank indebtedness is now in excess of N800 billion more than thrice the figure when the CBN took over these banks.

From when the CBN management took over these banks till date, while other banks not managed by CBN engaged in aggressive loan recovery drive, the CBN installed management sat patiently, waiting to offload toxic loans at significant discount to the AMCON. In two years, none of the CBN managed banks was able to recover up to 10 per cent of the non-performing loans they inherited. Insiders in these banks will tell you that the CBN managed banks did not consider it their mandate. So what was their mandate? Nigerians should ask. To sit down, earn fat salaries, and wait for AMCON to bail them out while they negotiate the sale of the banks to their cronies or CBN preferred cronies. How sad.[/b]

In my books, this is SLS greatest sin.the choice of managers for the rescued banks and their mediocre performnce alone is a sackable offence.

I can see that the purpose of this thread is lost.People now resort to insults to make their points known.For me, the basic argument remains;

1.Is SLS competent enough to head the CBN taking into consideration his performance so far?What evidence do we have to support Sanusi's performances at the various banks he worked prior to his appointment as the cbn governor?Did the banks perform better than previous periods prior to his appointment?In this case, evidence such as (a)the share price of the banks (b) revenue/income of the banks (c)customer retention, service delivery and growth in operations.(d)efficiency in operations evident in reduction of per unit cost.(e) expansion programs and branch network etc

This is because Risk Mgt goes beyond financial measures.It deals with the overall risk exposure of the organisation.Risk can emanate through various sources.I do not know how risk mgt is done in the banks, but i think the approach may be the same.So, lets assess his performance using verifiable evidence, rather than mere stating that he worked in various banks.Working in an organisation and contributing to overall growth of the org. are two d/f things.

2.What are the core functions of the CBN and what has the cbn got to do with the construction of hotels, farms etc when there are competent private individuals who are already into this business?What expertise/competency does the cbn has in hotel mgt, farm mgt, commodity trading etc?

3.The issue of islamic banking and SLS's education qualifications has been dealt with, even though we are still unconvinced of his Msc etc

4.Looking at various indices of economic growth and development, and comparing our country with her neighbours like Ghana etc can we say that the CBN under sanusi has performed creditably? Lets provide evidence for our assertions.

5.The inconsistency in the CBN policy under sanusi is alarming and disturbing to informed minds.Since the beginning of his tenure, SLS has not concluded even a single project.The banks he claimed to have bailed are worst than they were prior to the bailout.SLS has become the most controversial CBN governor in the world in present time (i wonder why he is yet to receive an award for this).Do you think SLS's actions are healthy for our young economy?

The above will give us a locus point rather than jumping from train to tipper.

@fstranger: Sorry for taking so long to respond. A certain book came out about 25 hours ago, and I've spent most of my time since then reading it

iragbijile:

Standard? What standard are you talking about?

Educational?

Work Experience?

Tribe /ethnicity?

The point here is that the notion that there is an absolute standard that must be met by a CBN governor is hogwash?


EVen in the US, what standard do you think thses people met before they were appointed Fed Chariman:

Greenspan Vs. Bernanke

Even with the god-like status of Greenspan, the economy went down under his watch. Does that make him incompetent?

Now compare those two with Larry Summers ( Was supposed to be Fed Chairman before Obama changed his mind), an eccentric lucky rabble-rouser.
Compare his speech here to that of Sanusi.

http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/2009/03/13/lawrence-h-summers-on-the-crisis

Yet, he is fit to be the Fed Chair and fit to be appointed the Economist of the world bank

We need to stop chasing shadows.

What exactly is the absolute standard you are talking about? Spit it out!

He simply is not. Almost all of these other CBN heads have both far superior educational qualifications than him (PhD), went to better schools (NYU vs ABU), and have substantial work experience. Not just working at Bank of America or whatever before becoming CBN head, but actually working as junior economists or in public policy think tanks!

A guy who graduated from college in economics in 2000 will have about 11 years of experience right now. Yet would anyone proffer such a guy as CBN head for Nigeria   Is that really what we'll use, when there are so many other candidates with more experience, more education, or both?

Milton didnt know more than that before he was granted a Nobel. you know why Krugman got his Nobel prize? Not for something fancy, and yet his name was thrown around for the fed job.

Why the fvck are you comparing Sanusi Lamido Sanusi to fcking Milton Friedman or Paul Krugman? You think Nobel Prize is beans? Something you can get just by virtue of being some descendant of Usman Dan Fodio? Wth? I've been reading Krugman since about 1996. SLS doesn't hold a candle to the guy in any way shape or form. They are not comparable.

It is never about what you know, it is more about using what you know to advance the plight of the people. James Watson discovered the double helix not because he knows more than Linus Pauling, he knew less actually, he was just able to stay long enough with the problem.

How has he advanced the plight of the people?

The most important thing is that he understands the Nigerian problem, that is good enough for me.

He might understand the Nigerian problem, but is he the best qualified person for the job?

Awolowo was boss of the CBN during the Civil war, even though he was a lawyer by training.

Minister of Finance is different, is it not? In any case, that Awo did XYZ 40 years ago doesn't mean we should do the same now.

Clinton, the next World bank chief, knows less than "your typical college econ grad from a good school with a few years of work experience."

Says who? Hillary Clinton? You mean the chick who got her law degree from Yale (#1 law school in the country)? The one who was in charge of Bill Clinton's healthcare plan in the 90s? The one who was senator for NY? This is the one who knows less about even economics than an aveerage econ grad?

In any case, World Bank President is primarily a political position; you don't really need to have any econ background to get it. Wolfowitz was World Bank President, for example. BTW, World Bank President is not the top economist position at the World Bank. That appears to be the Chief Economist of the World Bank." All men who have impeccable credentials as economists.

Maybe we dont need economists to run our central banks per se. Anyhoo, SLS knows enough to run the CBN, at least more than Awolowo and Clinton.

See above.

Lies and half truths.

12 years of consecutive banking experience before beginning his job. The 6 years he did after college are of questionable value. I dunno how it works for you in your particular profession, but for me, if I took a 6 year hiatus outside of my field, then I'd find it very difficult to get the same thing i had before I left.

Nuff said.

Sadly, I've noticed that foreign commentators on Nigeria sometimes miss certain things.

Well, I know that for sure. There are more applicants than space. ( 10000 : 1, candidate to space ratio) Go figure.

What did SLS get on his JAMB and WAEC? (or whatever the exams were at that point?) That he got in doesn't mean he deserved to.

I thought one of your criticisms of SLS is his lack of significant experience

So not knowing "any more about economics than your typical college econ grad from a good school with a few years of work experience" is good enough for this person, BUT NOT FOR SANUSI?

You see the contradictions in your statements.

Very obvious that this is personal, just like the air-head OP.

Despite her lack of experience, she has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that she understands macroeconomics. This is something that cannot be said for SLS.

I wouldn't mind Sanusi's work experience if he'd demonstrated this in some way.

This is what you said to discredit Sanusi:


?

I see it differently.

Anyway, here is another one:

http://www.nigerdeltacongress.com/karticles/kano_political_economy_reflectio.htm

I doubt you even read the last one.

These are the sorts of things that might be fine for an Op-ed in a newspaper of some sort. But as evidence of intellectual horsepower or mastery of economics, it doesn't measure up. I'm looking for something more like this: http://www.princeton.edu/~chassang/research.html

Peer reviewed scholarly work.

Op-eds on websites Gamji.com, NigerDeltaCongress.com are pretty fine, but not quite what I'm looking for.

@ola olabiy: Isn't this Maiden Lane Transactions similar to AMCON? It is just a vehicle for managing assets related to financial institutions that the Fed had to bail out.

That is still directly related to the Fed's mandate.

Can you show us an example of any central bank in the world building hotels, taking over a commodity board, offering to run the power sector, etc?

If you can post such an example, please do so. But please be direct and to the point when doing so, to avoid cluttering this thread.

i often get frustrated when you ask foe proof of SLS ability in economics and fiscal policy and folks start throwing Gamji and SR articles.
Have we sunk this low as a people?
I for one am not doubting the man's intelligence.What i think we should be questioning is his ability and performance as a reserve bank governor within the confines of universally accepted roles of a reserve bank.
His eloquence,courage,devotion to his faith and even education is irrelevant in the discussion.
telling me how much he is a role model to middle class muslims in the north is an irrelevant point.
Is he doing the job?why can't we address this without unnecesary emotions and sentiments?

Here is further proof of sanusi's incompetence as the CBN governor;

''Sanusi recently asked all those who have a problem with his pet-project (meaning the Christian Association of Nigeria) to go to court. For someone who has never had any problem with the introduction of Islamic banking or Christian banking or Jewish banking in Nigeria, that statement irked my sensibilities and further confirmed my strongly held views that Sanusi not only lacks the intellectual capacity to head the Central Bank, he is also deficient of maturity, sense of proportion and seems to have assumed that the widely held public sentiments against the bank chiefs he sacked in 2009 equates to an impenitent faith in his cause, ideas and person. Sadly Sanusi has only added the noble idea of Islamic banking to another cause of religious dissatisfaction among a large population of Nigerians.

It is pertinent for the Central Bank Governor to take a lesson in public relations from his predecessors who handled this most simple of issue without fan-fare, without abrasion, without acidic language and most of all without vehemence and fervour.
When Jaiz bank sought for a license to engage in Islamic banking under Governor Joseph Sanusi and a provisional license was given them under Governor Chukwuema Soludo, there was no outcry or the clashing of war drums because the process was professionally handled. Hajara Adeola led Lotus Capital has been operating since 2005 as an asset management company with an Islamic bias and no one has cried foul or carried placards against the company. The problem this time is the messenger not the message. Sanusi Lamido Sanusi confrontational headship of the Central Bank has been characterised by extreme division, bitterness, the unsettling of the financial landscape and the edification of self over the system. Sanusi ought not to have been allowed to be the chief salesman of the new CBN policy; alas he has bungled it as usual!
Nosa James-Igbinadolor is an Economist and Journalist''

http://newafricanpress.com/2011/07/12/islamic-banking-blame-the-messenger-not-the-message/

Katsumoto:

That is the question that I have been waiting for an answer for, its been two days now. As simple as the question is, there are no takers.

You are funny, man. And, I don't want you to lose the respect I have for you.

When it comes to issues about Naija, African and indeed the world's politics and history, you are almost impeccable.

But, here, you are not. Take it.

To those (baby-Katz I call you all) saying Katsumoto must be right, I think Stranger is right then. Do you all think that Katz is infallible? Or you want me to be condescending before you agree with me? And, the fact that another country once did it does not mean it's okay. No. It doesn't, at all.

SMH.

By the way, you are wrong again. Keep changing your question

Your initial question is: "A regulator as well as a competitor". A central bank that engages in profitable banking operation belongs to this category, isn't it?

That said:

Do you really want your new question answered? Uh?