HisSplendor:


Man, from what you type up there, i can see that there are many things you don't understand.

While you're talking about the OP, you do not seem to understand that we started from the OP and have progressed. You're trying to draw the discussion back again to where we started from.

Please, read up again before replying.

You're actually taking to yourself when you say I don't understand.

I have been responding to the conclusion made in the op which you created.

Everything I have replied is with reference to the story and the point you made from it.

So what is it again I don't understand?

You're the one who has refused to defend what you declared at the beginning, and no longer making any reference to it.

If you want to discuss something entirely different, then make that very clear and not using subterfuge to do so, and when I don't respond the way you want, you then accuse me of not understanding

I understand you and clearly. You have failed and woefully and just trying to save face with what you're doing now.

Stick to your op or create another thread if you want to discuss something else.

HisSplendor:


I think the problem here is that you're unable to draw a parralell between the story and the argument.

As I've said before, the journey they took symbolizes death. That's as far as the story goes. Are we limited to just the story even when reality offers more incidences?

Another confusion here. What is the argument?

The one you started at the beginning which I have responded to or the one you're trying to bring in through the backdoor?

As far as the thread is concerned, we are limited to what the op has offered. You have not been able to defend it and been talking out of point.

I said you misapplied the story and I was correct. Your responses have confirmed that.

If you want to discuss your "experiential and individualistic journey to heaven and back, make that clear or create another thread to discuss that

triplechoice:


Another confusion here. What is the argument?

The one you started at the beginning which I have responded to or the one you're trying to bring in through the backdoor?

As far as the thread is concerned, we are limited to what the op has offered. You have not been able to defend it and been talking out of point.

I said you misapplied the story and I was correct. Your responses have confirmed that.

If you want to discuss your "experiential and individualistic journey to heaven and back, make that clear or create another thread to discuss that

I'm not discussing any experiential individualistic journey to heaven and back. Nothing I've said so far ever implied that. You're finding it difficult to comprehend the meat and bone of this discourse.

triplechoice:

You're actually taking to yourself when you say I don't understand.

I have been responding to the conclusion made in the op which you created.

Everything I have replied is with reference to the story and the point you made from it.

So what is it again I don't understand?

You're the one who has refused to defend what you declared at the beginning, and no longer making any reference to it.

If you want to discuss something entirely different, then make that very clear and not using subterfuge to do so, and when I don't respond the way you want, you then accuse me of not understanding

I understand you and clearly. You have failed and woefully and just trying to save face with what you're doing now.

Stick to your op or create another thread if you want to discuss something else.

no

When a discussion is ongoing, it develops as it progresses.

The starting point of a discussion is just the foundation. It could expand and even bring in several unexpected subject matters.

I know what I wrote and why I wrote it. I've been having profitable discussions with those who understand it. The moment a reader among many other readers begins to tell a writer that he doesn't understand what he wrote, it's definitely clear that the reader has refused to comprehend.

So, let it rest brother. I already passed my message.

The OP was schooled.

The folly in Theism.

HisSplendor:


I think the problem here is that you're unable to draw a parralell between the story and the argument.

As I've said before, the journey they took symbolizes death. That's as far as the story goes. Are we limited to just the story even when reality offers more incidences?

Actually the problem is you can't draw the parallels you seem to want to draw between reality and the story. Dead people as far as we can tell have no experience they can relay despite the vast number of people who have died. An estimate I saw says about 110billion people have died yet not a single confirmable experience of any sort of afterlife, it is beyond logical to think there is one. If you want to believe there is an afterlife you are certainly welcome but don't imagine you really have a logical basis for that belief cos you don't, no matter how hard you try to shoehorn hypothetical stories.

LordReed:


Actually the problem is you can't draw the parallels you seem to want to draw between reality and the story. Dead people as far as we can tell have no experience they can relay despite the vast number of people who have died. An estimate I saw says about 110billion people have died yet not a single confirmable experience of any sort of afterlife, it is beyond logical to think there is one. If you want to believe there is an afterlife you are certainly welcome but don't imagine you really have a logical basis for that belief cos you don't, no matter how hard you try to shoehorn hypothetical stories.

While I can draw a parrallel, you may not be able to do the same.

That dead people have no experience in the afterlife isn't a statement of fact. That's hypothetical.

The mistake you make is thinking that the universe is made up of only the logical realm. The logical realm is insignificant in the scheme of things. While the unseen realm is the Real Realm. The logical realm is just an illusion.

HisSplendor:


While I can draw a parrallel, you may not be able to do the same.

That dead people have no experience in the afterlife isn't a statement of fact. That's hypothetical.

The mistake you make is thinking that the universe is made up of only the logical realm. The logical realm is insignificant in the scheme of things. While the unseen realm is the Real Realm. The logical realm is just an illusion.

No you can't. You are trying desperately but you are not succeeding.

LoLz! It's not hypothetical there is no evidence of that.

The only realm I know is reality and in this reality dead people are dead.

LordReed:


No you can't. You are trying desperately but you are not succeeding.

LoLz! It's not hypothetical there is no evidence of that.

The only realm I know is reality and in this reality dead people are dead.

The only reason you see this as reality is that the land of the dead is a land of no return. It is also a land belonging to the unseen realm.
However, when you listen to the words of dieing old men, or those who have had a near death experience, you'll be instructed.

HisSplendor:
no

When a discussion is ongoing, it develops as it progresses.

The starting point of a discussion is just the foundation. It could expand and even bring in several unexpected subject matters.

I know what I wrote and why I wrote it. I've been having profitable discussions with those who understand it. The moment a reader among many other readers begins to tell a writer that he doesn't understand what he wrote, it's definitely clear that the reader has refused to comprehend.

So, let it rest brother. I already passed my message.

This man you're very funny.

Who are the people that think you have made any sense if not those who also believe sheepishly like you?

Show me the profitable discussion you have been having with others who think you made any sense on this thread.


You're have been throwing about empty words and statements of me not understanding you just because you have failed to defend your op.

It's not helping you. You can't be a judge in your own case.

If you're so sure I don't understand anything, then why have you failed to let others following ,see clearly what I don't understand.?

The esoteric books I believe you have been reading alongside your Bible has created confusion in your mind.

What experience of heaven have you had that you have been indirectly referring to?

It's only esoteric students and those from some certain religion, like Eckankar, that would tell you that you can have an experience of heaven while still alive.

Christianity doesn't teach that.

HisSplendor:


While I can draw a parrallel, you may not be able to do the same.

That dead people have no experience in the afterlife isn't a statement of fact. That's hypothetical.

The mistake you make is thinking that the universe is made up of only the logical realm. The logical realm is insignificant in the scheme of things. While the unseen realm is the Real Realm. The logical realm is just an illusion.

Logical realm? What you're discussing is beyond you.

You don't possess the right vocabulary to discuss it.

Just drop this and do some further readings and return later when you're well equipped with what to say

HisSplendor:


The only reason you see this as reality is that the land of the dead is a land of no return. It is also a land belonging to the unseen realm.
However, when you listen to the words of dieing old men, or those who have had a near death experience, you'll be instructed.

When I can hear or see dead people relate their experience then I will have cause to think so.

LordReed:


When I can hear or see dead people relate their experience then I will have cause to think so.

They've left here. That's why they're called dead. The body is a very temporal house we live in. Everything here is an illusion.

triplechoice:


Logical realm? What you're discussing is beyond you.

You don't possess the right vocabulary to discuss it.

Just drop this and do some further readings and return later when you're well equipped with what to say

I should have put that in quote. The natural realm is a realm of logic. And when I mentioned 'logical realm' that's what I was referring to.

Your inability to agree that there's an unseen realm not subject to logic does not in anyway stop that realm from existing. That's a realm some of us interact with on a daily basis.

triplechoice:


This man you're very funny.

Who are the people that think you have made any sense if not those who also believe sheepishly like you?

Show me the profitable discussion you have been having with others who think you made any sense on this thread.


You're have been throwing about empty words and statements of me not understanding you just because you have failed to defend your op.

It's not helping you. You can't be a judge in your own case.

If you're so sure I don't understand anything, then why have you failed to let others following ,see clearly what I don't understand.?

The esoteric books I believe you have been reading alongside your Bible has created confusion in your mind.

What experience of heaven have you had that you have been indirectly referring to?

It's only esoteric students and those from some certain religion, like Eckankar, that would tell you that you can have an experience of heaven while still alive.

Christianity doesn't teach that.

You're wrong from top to bottom.

And infact, your last statement shows you know nothing.

HisSplendor:


They've left here. That's why they're called dead. The body is a very temporal house we live in. Everything here is an illusion.

I have no reason to believe that.

HisSplendor:


You're wrong from top to bottom.

And infact, your last statement shows you know nothing.

Dirty tricks as usual to make it seem you know something.

Prove that I am wrong from top to bottom and also prove that I know nothing with my last comment.

You have been making similar comments that you refuse to substantiate.

You can't accuse somebody of something and when ask to prove it , you run away. That's what you do each time.

In christianity it's never taught anywhere that you should or can experience heaven before you go there.

Experience of heaven by those who claim to have been there through OBE is what you're banking on.

You don't know anything about OBES. I can assure you of that. If you want to use OBEs as support for your argument that Christians can visit heaven before they die, create another thread and invite me.

triplechoice:


Dirty tricks as usual to make it seem you know something.

Prove that I am wrong from top to bottom and also prove that I know nothing with my last comment.

You have been making similar comments that you refuse to substantiate.

You can't accuse somebody of something and when ask to prove it , you run away. That's what you do each time.

In christianity it's never taught anywhere that you should or can experience heaven before you go there.

Experience of heaven by those who claim to have been there through OBE is what you're banking on.

You don't know anything about OBES. I can assure you of that. If you want to use OBEs as support for your argument that Christians can visit heaven before they die, create another thread and invite me.

My friend you talk too much without being really on track.

Your interpretations are actually too offpoint. To you having spiritual experiences before dying means visiting heaven before death. And a lot of other misrepresentations that you have makes it very difficult to engage you without stating from the rudiments. One must first try to define different concepts and ideas before putting forward a subject matter in a discussion with you otherwise, that person would end up not communicating.

You're not getting anything I'm saying to you because you have a different understanding of the concepts I'm talking about.

I've been having very smooth discussions with Atheists on this Forum for a long time, and for the first time, I'm meeting someone who thinks about heaven when we talk about spiritual experiences. I can't even remember all the many misconceptions I've encountered with you.

Let it rest brother. I can't start doing any prolonged discussions based on rudiments.

I already passed my message.

Thanks for your time and have a nice day.

LordReed:


I have no reason to believe that.

You don't need to believe anything.

All you need to do is to employ the right tools in researching the information.

Scientists didn't believe the world is a sphere until they got the right tools to verify the claim. Did their unbelief stop the world from being a sphere?

Using logic to undertake spiritual research is like using the naked eye to find microbes in the air.

HisSplendor:


My friend you talk too much without being really on track.

Your interpretations are actually too offpoint. To you having spiritual experiences before dying means visiting heaven before death. And a lot of other misrepresentations that you have makes it very difficult to engage you without stating from the rudiments. One must first try to define different concepts and ideas before putting forward a subject matter in a discussion with you otherwise, that person would end up not communicating.

You're not getting anything I'm saying to you because you have a different understanding of the concepts I'm talking about.

I've been having very smooth discussions with Atheists on this Forum for a long time, and for the first time, I'm meeting someone who thinks about heaven when we talk about spiritual experiences. I can't even remember all the many misconceptions I've encountered with you.

Let it rest brother. I can't start doing any prolonged discussions based on rudiments.

I already passed my message.

Thanks for your time and have a nice day.

Ad hominem from beginning to the end .And the worst part, you're unable put your thoughts down clearly.

You have struggled to discuss fully what you claim to know.

The op you created, you have since abandoned it for "the experiential, individualistic, dieing old men stories , OBEs "and other claims, you were unable to throw further light on.

Next time choose a topic you can freely discuss. This one is not within your range.

No reasonable message has been passed by you. You deceive yourself if you think have.

Have a nice day too.

HisSplendor:


You don't need to believe anything.

All you need to do is to employ the right tools in researching the information.

Scientists didn't believe the world is a sphere until they got the right tools to verify the claim. Did their unbelief stop the world from being a sphere?

Using logic to undertake spiritual research is like using the naked eye to find microbes in the air.

The earth is not a sphere, but approximately spherical.

You don't know the difference .

HisSplendor:


You don't need to believe anything.

All you need to do is to employ the right tools in researching the information.

Scientists didn't believe the world is a sphere until they got the right tools to verify the claim. Did their unbelief stop the world from being a sphere?

Using logic to undertake spiritual research is like using the naked eye to find microbes in the air.

Great. So tell me what the right tools are since you say belief is not required.

triplechoice:


The earth is not a sphere, but approximately spherical.

You don't know the difference .

Whether approximately spherical or otherwise, the earth isn't flat as was previously assumed.

triplechoice:


Ad hominem from beginning to the end .And the worst part, you're unable put your thoughts down clearly.

You have struggled to discuss fully what you claim to know.

The op you created, you have since abandoned it for "the experiential, individualistic, dieing old men stories , OBEs "and other claims, you were unable to throw further light on.

Next time choose a topic you can freely discuss. This one is not within your range.

No reasonable message has been passed by you. You deceive yourself if you think have.

Have a nice day too.

Leave it friend.

Your opinion.

LordReed:


Great. So tell me what the right tools are since you say belief is not required.

Nothing special.

Be inquisitive and open minded enough to explore all worlds.

HisSplendor:


Nothing special.

Be inquisitive and open minded enough to explore all worlds.

What worlds? And explore how?

HisSplendor:


Whether approximately spherical or otherwise, the earth isn't flat as was previously assumed.

Whether Jonah swallowed the fish or the fish swallowed him, it doesn't matter as long as there vwas a miracle.

No sense.

HisSplendor:


Whether approximately spherical or otherwise, the earth isn't flat as was previously assumed.

Whether Jonah swallowed the fish or the fish swallowed him, it doesn't matter as long as there was a miracle.

No sense.

triplechoice:


Whether Jonah swallowed the fish or the fish swallowed him, it doesn't matter as long as there vwas a miracle.

No sense.

Mtcheww