Eriokanmi:
■ Are you the only one bearing the name given you from birth? Where did you read in the bible that it was same lazarus who was raised from the dead that was being referred to? Go and sit down my friend. You always sound confused.

Ken4Christ:


Burning an object that is physical is not the same thing as burning an object that is spiritual or none tangible as far as this physical world is concerned.

So, the physical body can be burnt up but not the soul of a man.

The soul is simply tormented in the flame but it is not burnt up.

Kobojunkie:
So, if you don't believe it is a reference to the same Lazarus, brother of Mary and Martha, then why do you insist that it has to be a true story?

I am not confused, just wondering why your rebuttal to my earlier post.

Eriokanmi:
That it wasn't a reference to Mary and Martha's brother doesn't make the story a lie either.
In those days. There were many Peters, James, John...not only the disciples of Jesus Christ were called those names...same as lazarus in question.

Kobojunkie:
Sure, so tell us why exactly you feel that the mention of names essentially negates the parabolic significance of the story.

Eriokanmi:
My response would be...go to the bible and fetch me where else Jesus apoke in parables with a name of somebody mentioned in it other than the one we're talking about

Ken4Christ:


Burning an object that is physical is not the same thing as burning an object that is spiritual or none tangible as far as this physical world is concerned.

So, the physical body can be burnt up but not the soul of a man.

The soul is simply tormented in the flame but it is not burnt up.

Ken4Christ:


Burning an object that is physical is not the same thing as burning an object that is spiritual or none tangible as far as this physical world is concerned.

So, the physical body can be burnt up but not the soul of a man.

The soul is simply tormented in the flame but it is not burnt up.

NNTR:
I often tell jokes with actual names of real people, like my missus, friends et cetera for example, used in them. Watch this, when I am telling those jokes, it doesnt necessarily mean, the jokes are entirely lack of elements of truth and realities in the jokes.

Now, so is the case with the parable of the rich man and poor man. Just as truths and realities, exist in my jokes, so truth and reality exist in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Your level of conscious competence, biblical literacy and spiritual maturity, determines how you correctly and fully understand, interpret and identify the truth and realities in the parable

Matthew 10:28
And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;
rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna

Ken4Christ, please share what your answers are, to the three questions below:
1. Please do combusted things, feel anything like pain, et cetera, after they have been destroyed?
2. Does a decomposing decayed body feel anything like pain?
3. Would a combusted soul, feel anything like pain?

Do you, peradventure, harbour anywhere in your mind that God is a sadist or God, might be a sadist?

cc annyplenty, Whoknow, Mtngloetiartel

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

mtngloetiartel:
What does the Bible say that helps us to understand what the soul is?Gen. 2:7: “God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is neʹphesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”)1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (So the Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is.) (The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”)1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (The Greek word here translated “souls” is psy·khaiʹ, the plural form of psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”)Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from neʹphesh] shall I ask back.” (Here the soul is said to have blood.)Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” (The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.)
Can the human soul die?Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*Hebrew reads “the neʹphesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.”)Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.” (*Greek has the accusative case of psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”)Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psy·kheʹ] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.”

Kobojunkie:
1. I really don't follow! Why do you assume all parables are meant to follow a common theme? And what do you mean by the danger or riches as pertaining to the Kingdom of God?

2. In God's Old Covenant, the term Hell is used in reference to the place of Death — from dust you were made and to dust you shall return - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22 — the punishment that awaited the unrighteous of the Old Covenant. It was not a literal place but instead a reference to the idea put forth by God Himself which is that those who are condemned will cease to exist upon death. Equally, Heaven, in the Old Law was a reference to the abode of God and nothing more.

As for Eternal reward(Heaven) and Eternal damnation(Hell), those came into existence for mankind through Jesus Christ who brought to mankind access to the Kingdom of God where both locations exist.

3. The Law of Moses was in fact a National Constitution given by God to the people of Israel in the Land of Canaan. Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant is equally the Constitutional Law in God's Nation of Priests aka the Kingdom of God - Exodus 19 vs 6

Whoknow:

God told Adam in the book of Genesis that the day he eat from the tree he asked him not to eat, he shall die but Adam ate from the tree but did not die physically, he rather he died spiritually, when there is physical body there is also spiritual body.

Kobojunkie:
That is a misconception. Adam was in the presence of God when God gave Him that command and also when God cursed Him, and scripture has it that a 1000 years in the world is like a day in the presence of God. And we know that Adam died less than 1000 years after he was kicked out of the garden of Eden.

Another thing we also know is that Adam did not have a spirit assigned to Him by God. The same breath of God that God breathed into Adam's nose - Genesis 2 vs 6 - 7 - God also put into all living creatures- Genesis 6 vs 15. God made man solely of the clay of this earth hence the reason for God's judgment ---- from dust man was made and to dust man will return when he dies - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22.

Kukutenla:
■Parables are illustrations to buttress a point or another. The point I'm making is Jesus did not identify a central theme in giving the parable of the rich man and lazarus.
■But so many can be gleaned from it. The danger is riches was established by Jesus himself in his conversation with the rich young man in Luke 18.
■ Hell is the abode of the devil and his demons in the old testament. It does not mean death as you put it.
■ Your number 3 is apt. That's why the subject of Hell and Heaven is not a central theme in OT as you have in NT

18 A religious leader asked Jesus, “Good Teacher, what must I do to get eternal life?”
19 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? Only God is good.
20 And you know his commands: ‘You must not commit adultery, you must not murder anyone, you must not steal, you must not tell lies about others, you must respect your father and mother ….’[a]”
21 But the leader said, “I have obeyed all these commands since I was a boy.”
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to the leader, “But there is still one thing you need to do. Sell everything you have and give the money to those who are poor. You will have riches in heaven. Then come and follow me.”
23 But when the man heard Jesus tell him to give away his money, he was sad. He didn’t want to do this, because he was very rich.
24 When Jesus saw that the man was sad, he said, “It will be very hard for rich people to enter God’s kingdom.
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.” - Luke 18 vs 18 - 25

15 “Today I have given you a choice between life and death, success and disaster.
16 I command you today to love the Lord your God. I command you to follow him and to obey his commands, laws, and rules. Then you will live, and your nation will grow larger. And the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take for your own.
17 But if you turn away from your God and refuse to listen, if you are led away to worship and serve other gods,
18 you will be destroyed. I am warning you today, if you turn away from God, you will not live long in that land across the Jordan River that you are ready to enter and take for your own.
19 “Today I am giving you a choice of two ways. And I ask heaven and earth to be witnesses of your choice. You can choose life or death. The first choice will bring a blessing. The other choice will bring a curse. So choose life! Then you and your children will live.
20 You must love the Lord your God and obey him. Never leave him, because he is your life. And he will give you a long life in the land that he, the Lord, promised to give to your ancestors—Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20

Whoknow:
■ Are you trying to insinuate that man has no spirit?

19 You will work hard for your food, until your face is covered with sweat. You will work hard until the day you die, and then you will become dust again.I used dust to make you, and when you die, you will become dust again.”
20 Adam[c] named his wife Eve.[d] He gave her this name because Eve would be the mother of everyone who ever lived.
21 The Lord God used animal skins and made some clothes for the man and his wife. Then he put the clothes on them.
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”
23 So the Lord God forced the man out of the Garden of Eden to work the ground he was made from.
24 God forced the man to leave the garden. Then he put Cherub angels and a sword of fire at the entrance to the garden to protect it. The sword flashed around and around, guarding the way to the Tree of life. - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 24

1 - 3 The number of people on earth continued to increase. When these people had daughters, the sons of God saw how beautiful they were. So they chose the women they wanted. They married them, and the women had their children.
Then the Lord said, “People are only human. I will not let my Spirit be troubled by them forever. I will let them live only 120 years.”[a] - Genesis 6 vs 1 - 3

15 All these animals went into the boat with Noah. They came in groups of two from every kind of animal that had the breath of life.
16 All these animals went into the boat in groups of two, just as God had commanded Noah. Then the Lord closed the door behind Noah. - Genesis 7 vs 15 - 16

5 Jesus answered, “Believe me when I say that everyone must be born from water and the Spirit. Anyone who is not born from water and the Spirit cannot enter God’s kingdom.
6 The only life people get from their human parents is physical. But the new life that the Spirit gives a person is spiritual.
7 Don’t be surprised that I told you, ‘You must be born again.’
8 The wind blows wherever it wants to. You hear it, but you don’t know where it is coming from or where it is going. It is the same with everyone who is born from the Spirit.” - John 3 vs 5 - 8

Whoknow:

God told Adam in the book of Genesis that the day he eat from the tree he asked him not to eat, he shall die but Adam ate from the tree but did not die physically, he rather he died spiritually, when there is physical body there is also spiritual body.

Whoknow:
God is not a sadist and can never be a sadist

Whoknow:
you don't accuse a judge who passes judgement according to the law which justice demands as a sadist.

Whoknow:
For example in Nigeria it's against the law for anyone to go into kidnapping hence all the citizens know this law but out of negligence one disobeys such law and went ahead and carry out kidnapping and he is eventually caught and he is charged to court, so after examining his offence eventually he was pronounced guilty by the judge, would you accuse the judge that he is a sadist by given right judgement that is demanded of such offence? Or would you say that the judge is wicked?

constancefriday:
If you read the scriptures in details you'll notice that the rich man is the same Guy whom Jesus called the rich fool in the parable of the rich fool

NNTR:
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51Listen very carefully, I tell you a mystery
[a secret truth decreed by God and previously hidden, but now revealed];
we will not all sleep [in death], but we will all be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed],
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at [the sound of] the last trumpet call.
For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [who believed in Christ] will be raised imperishable,
and we will be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed].
53For this perishable [part of us] must put on the imperishable [nature],
and this mortal [part of us that is capable of dying] must put on immortality [which is freedom from death].

Glorified bodies are a necessity for resurrection isnt it?
If not then what does resurrection mean for decomposed bodies then, erhn?
Of course resurrection will happen at the sound of the trumpet

I typed, parables are just like jokes. I never said that parables are jokes

Exactly, that parables are allegory. On every parable you ride on to a truth of something(s).

For example, Jesus with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus revealed truths about what happens in Sheol after death, what goes on in there, how the place is divided into two sections with a chasm separating the two sides

So, I repeat, parables are just like jokes and just because either dont necessarily need to be taken literally, it doesnt mean that parables or even jokes dont have rings of truth and reality in them.

So, in answering your question, I repeat, there is a time, there's a point, there are parts when and when not to take parable literally.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

seunayantokun:
Everybody, kindly note that that story is NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, A PARABLE. It is a true life story. A clue is unlike parables of Jesus in which no real person is named, Jesus in this one mentions a real name of a real person, Lazarus, which is the latinate form of Eliezer, a Hebrew name. And the fact that the name is latinate implies the bearer lived at the time of the Roman occupation of Palestine ...

seunayantokun:
... I thank God Luke also doesn't say it is a parable.

NNTR:

---

---

---

I often tell jokes using actual names of real people, like names of my missus, friends et cetera for example, are used in the jokes, but watch this, when I am telling those jokes, it doesnt necessarily mean, the jokes are entirely lack of elements of truth and realities in them.

Listen seunayantokun beloved, the reason why the rich man's name was not mentioned, is simply because not only, is his name an inconsequential scrap of information, but is nothing other than a persona non grata

Luke 16:1
He also said to His disciples:
“There was a certain rich man who had a steward, and an accusation was brought to him that this man was wasting his goods.

Please dont inflict this delusion and misconception upon yourself, by saying that Luke 16:19-31 isnt a parable. For crying out loud, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world had been on a trot, reeling out, back to back, one parable after another parable

The law of first mention, in Luke 5:36 where it states: 'He told them this parable' established a precedent, pattern and regular repetition, of Jesus' modus operandi, which effectively is, telling stories and using simple illustrations, designed to explain and make clearer different aspects and types of moral and/or spiritual lessons. This, Jesus did, throughout the whole the chapters in book of Luke

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Ken4Christ:

Burning an object that is physical is not the same thing as burning an object that is spiritual or none tangible as far as this physical world is concerned. So, the physical body can be burnt up but not the soul of a man. The soul is simply tormented in the flame but it is not burnt up.

seunayantokun:
Everybody, kindly note that that story is NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, A PARABLE. It is a true life story. A clue is unlike parables of Jesus in which no real person is named, Jesus in this one mentions a real name of a real person, Lazarus, which is the latinate form of Eliezer, a Hebrew name. And the fact that the name is latinate implies the bearer lived at the time of the Roman occupation of Palestine. I thank God Luke also doesn't say it is a parable.

MaxInDHouse:
It's just an illustration that you need to understand because according to Jesus he was only rich and he didn't treat Lazarus badly rather Lazarus DESIRE whatever falls from the rich man's table! Luke 16:21


These are the symbolic terms you need to know their meanings:
©Lazarus
©Rich man
©Gate
©Crumbs from the tables
©Sours on Lazarus's body
©Dogs licking his sours
©Their death
©Abraham's bosom
©Hades (Hell)
©Torment
©Father Abraham
©Drop of water
©Chasm fixed between them
©Rich man's five brothers
©Moses and the Prophets

For deeper reasoning remember Moses lived when the Israelites were slaves in Egypt and all Israelites in Egypt were slaves therefore none among the Israelites was rich they were all poor slaves in Egypt. Moreover when they left Egypt all of them left with wealth because the Egyptians gave them everything they desired so they were all rich.
So how can Moses be a contemporary of two Israelites where one is rich while the other is extremely poor?
The rich man couldn't be an Egyptian because he referred to Abraham as "father"

If anyone wish to know the meaning of those symbolic terms i'm still very much around.

I am Maximus one of Jehovah's Witnesses!

seunayantokun:
You can insult me, I don't care.

seunayantokun:
I said thank God Luke doesn't say it's parable. That has nothing do with whatever allusion or delusion you want to make.

seunayantokun:
I have not joined that statement with any other thing than a fact that it is.

seunayantokun:
If you arrive at any implications by that, you are on your own.

seunayantokun:
I just implore all children of God on this platform to avoid your poison of erroneous interpretation of the Word of God.

seunayantokun:
AGAIN I SAY THAT STORY IS NEVER A PARABLE but a narration of a real life event.

seunayantokun:
You're at liberty to make out anything from it. I have no time to drag it with you neither do I have time for a long discussion, it suffices to urge true followers of Christ to go back to their Bible and study it rather than listening to falsehood.

seunayantokun:
Don't be deceived, there is a place of torment waiting for Christ-less souls.

seunayantokun:
Hell is ever waiting.

EmyGod:

Talk what you know, don't play with your life for God is not mocked. Bible is word of God inspired by holyspirit of God.

Gkay1:

Meaningless talk

layzie:


Hmmm. Just to correct some erroneous claims here.

First, Abraham was so rich he had his own private army. He equally died very rich.

Isaac his son was so rich the country of Gerar where he went to escape the famine had to ask him to leave, cos he was richer and more powerful than them.

Then David, died a very rich king and his successor- his son Solomon, was even richer than him.

Your claim that Abraham and David gave all they had and were left with nothing, is incorrect.

MaxInDHouse:


Perhaps all these people got their research wrong coming to tell you that what Jesus said about Lazarus and the rich man was a parable and not a real life event.
You've always said those telling you this truth will burn in your imaginary hell for not agreeing with you that Lazarus and the rich man authenticate the existence of a place of torment after death.
Now tell them all the things you've been telling me for enlightening you about the real meaning of Hell!

NNTR:
Good you know that

Let me provide the perfect complement to this comment. Which is:
One doesnt accuse an incorruptible and principle Judge who passes correct and fair judgement according to the law which the course of justice demands, of being a sadist.

1. What are the various sentences for committing the crime of kidnapping in Naiyja?
2. Would you accuse a judge of being a sadist for giving right judgement, that is proportional to the kidnapping crime committed?
3. What would you call a judge that gives a sentence that is disproportionate to the crime committed?

Now, please, indulge us here, do you really think that tormenting souls of human beings, in a way that permanently continues and lasts forever, is something that God is looking forward to get pleasure from. Hmm?

I am perceiving that you, just as Ken4Christ does, really believe that, ABBA, a good and loving Influencer, will non stop barbecue burn human beings and souls in the lake of fire FOREVER

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}