Jumbojax:
■ like I said, not a rule

ok

Lolz. U don't know how to explain Scripture. U never support ur explanation with scriptures. That is not how to preach if at all you are trying to preach to someone like me. You need help in understanding the truth. All what you had said are false and contradictory. There are over 80 Bible translations worldwide. I have 5 out of them. You have not really study and research the Bible and u still have a long way to go.

Ken4Christ:


Our Lord Jesus did not leave us in the dark as to what he really meant by hell. This is why he used different parables and many phrases to describe it and what happens there. That someone or group of persons translate hell as grave does not stop it from what it is.

The good you will do yourself is to go through passages Jesus made references to hell and determine within the context he is speaking whether he is referring to a grave or something more than a grave. And don't limit yourself to one translation.

You can never be honest to yourself about a controversial subject until you have examined every single scripture where the subject is discussed.

But you only use scripture that appears to support your opinions and ignore others that clearly contradicts them, it points to gross dishonesty. And it could cost you your salvation.

For instance, when Jesus talked about hell, he often used the phrase, 'cast into hell'. The word cast means throw. Do you throw people into graves?

In some places, he said into the fire that shall never be quenched. Is there fire burning in the grave.

Those who argue that he was referring to a valley in Jerusalem known as Gehenna are making great mistakes. This is because, the fire in Gehenna is no longer burning. And Jesus said that the fire in hell is never quenched.

Again, he said that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there. Do lifeless bodies weep and gnash their teeth? Certainly not.

He also used other term to describe the final place of punishment. Hell is not the final destination for lost souls. Those in hell will be released for final judgment on judgment day.

The final destination is the Lake of Fire.

This is what our Lord Jesus referred to as furnace of fire. He also called it everlasting fire. The torment in the Lake of Fire is far worse than that in hell.

In hell, he said that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But in the Lake of Fire, he said that there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The pains or torment will be so much that you can't weep anyone. Rather, you will wail.

Please, repent before it is too late.

Jumbojax:
True true but this case it has to be a real life narrative.

Luke 16:22-24
22Now it happened that the poor man died
and his spirit was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom (paradise);
and the rich man also died and was buried.
23In Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he looked up
and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom (paradise).
24And he cried out,
‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me,
and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water
and cool my tongue, because I am in severe agony in this flame.’

Jumbojax dearest beloved, lets cut to the chase.

1. To the best of your understanding and in all seriousness, is the finger of Lazarus, mentioned in Luke 16:24 real?
2. To the best of your understanding and in all seriousness, is the tongue of the rich man, mentioned in Luke 16:24 real?
3. Is the 'Jack and Jill' nursery rhyme too, a real life narrative?

Jumbojax:
Other scriptures proves that old testament saints were in a place that wasn't heaven. But a paradise e.g Luke 23:42-43 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The thief is asking for heaven but Jesus is promising him a paradise with Him.
And we know Jesus went to hell for 3 days after he died.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Abrahams Bossom is not heaven but a paradise beside hell for old testament believers like Lazarus cause the way to heaven wasn't opened until Jesus died

No one is disputing with you whether or not Hades, Sheol, Abraham's bosom, paradise, lake of fire or heavens exists, and so all what you typed here, are wholly beside the critical point under discussion

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

mtngloetiartel:
Lolz. U don't know how to explain Scripture. U never support ur explanation with scriptures. That is not how to preach if at all you are trying to preach to someone like me. You need help in understanding the truth. All what you had said are false and contradictory. There are over 80 Bible translations worldwide. I have 5 out of them. You have not really study and research the Bible and u still have a long way to go.

You are looking for scriptures. I don't have issues with that. I have a whole book with hundreds of Scripture on the subject of hell. It's on Amazon. Just go through the few quotes below;

Passages Showing Strong Phrases Used To Describe Hell and The Nature of The Punishment.

1. The Fire is Eternal.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

2. The Fire is Everlasting.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels:

3. There Shall Be Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

4. It is a Fire That Shall Never Be Quenched.

Mark 9:43-44
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
44 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:45-46
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
46 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:47-48
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be CAST INTO HELL FIRE.

48 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

5. There Shall Be Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into OUTER DARKNESS; there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH .

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Luke 13:28 There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

6. The Lake of Fire Which is the Final Destination of Lost Souls Burns with Brimstone.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

7. The Devil Himself Shall Be Thrown into The Lake of Fire and Shall Be Tormented Day and Night.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.

mtngloetiartel:
Where u are not getting it right is when you go beyond Bible teachings. U can't used imperfect man-made theology to give credence to what the Bible is saying. The word of God is superior to man's understanding. Know this first and always keep it at the back of ur mind. Ur explanation of soul doesn't fit in with what the Bible teaches. For instance, where does the bible state or teaches that there are 2 types of souls? Try support ur assertions with the scriptures. I never even give u all the examples where the bible refer to soul. Do you know that Animals too are refer to as souls in the Bible?
Gen. 1:20, 21, 24, 25: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls* . . . ’ And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. . . . And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds . . . ’ And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind.” (*In Hebrew the word here is neʹphesh. Ro reads “soul.” Some translations use the rendering “creature[s].”)Lev. 24:17, 18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.” (Notice that the same Hebrew word for soul is applied to both mankind and animals.)Rev. 16:3: “It became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul* died, yes, the things in the sea.” (Thus the Christian Greek Scriptures also show animals to be souls.) (*In Greek the word here is psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, and Dy render it “soul.” Some translators use the term “creature” or “thing.”)
“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [neʹphesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy·kheʹ] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.“The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.

Just go through an excerpt from my ebook, The Total Man. It will help you understand my point backed up with scriptures.

Chapter 3 - The Soul of Man.

The word soul is used in two different context in the Bible. In the first, it means a person. So, the total man is sometimes referred to as a soul. In the book of Genesis, it said;

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” (Genesis 2:7).

The word soul here is translated from the Hebrew word, nephesh which means a breathing creature or a living being. Hence, the New King James rendered the verse above thus;

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and MAN BECAME A LIVING BEING.” (Genesis 2:7)

In another verse, we see where the word soul also translated from the Hebrew word nephesh which means a living being;

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, THAT SOUL SHALL BE CUT OFF from his people; he hath broken my covenant. (Genesis 17:14).

The bolded means that person shall be cut off.
The soul is used in another context to mean that part of man that lives on after death. This is translated from the Greek word, psuche which is the seat of feelings (emotions), will and mind. This part of the body just like the spirit lives on even after death.

The soul is the intellectual faculty of man. It is with our souls through the functions of the mind coordinating with the physical brain that we reason and make decisions on a daily basis.

At new birth nothing happened to your soul and body. It was your spirit that received eternal life. The salvation of your soul is your responsibility. Thus, James wrote;

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, WHICH IS ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SOULS.” (James 1:21).

James wrote to the church to receive God’s word which is able to save their souls. He didn’t say, ‘which is able to save your spirits’ because our spirit man is already saved.

So, the soul consists of your mind, will and emotions. The mind is the coordination centre of the soul. It is with our minds we receive information, process it through thinking and make decisions. The mind also has the ability to store information. However, the information stored in the mind is volatile just like the RAM of a computer but that stored in the heart is permanent like he hard disk of a computer.

The carnal mind has its desires;

“Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, FULFILLING THE DESIRES OF THE FLESH AND OF THE MIND; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.” (Ephesians 2:3).

Our minds have both creative and destructive tendency depends on what you dwell your thoughts on. Evil men today are using their minds to fight against the will of God. They event or create evil things that turns people away from God. Thus Paul wrote;

“Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, INVENTORS OF EVIL THINGS, disobedient to parents,” (Romans 1:30).
The Bible says the carnal or fleshly mind cannot please God or be subject to the Law of God;

“For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the CARNAL MIND IS ENMITY AGAINST GOD: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” (Romans 8:6-7).

The will of the carnal mind is usually contrary to the will of God. It seeks to fulfill its carnal desires. This is why it is important to renew your mind the moment you get saved so you can understand what the will of the Lord is and align yourself with it.

The soul is also the seat of feelings or emotions. There are positive and negative emotions. Some of the positive emotions are; joy, gratitude, hope, awe, surprise, affections and cheerfulness. Negative emotions include; fear, anger, depression, resentment, anxiety, impatient, and moodiness. If these negative emotions are not checked or controlled, it could ruin your Christian testimony and even cut short your life span.

Remember that it was impatient that made Abraham sleep with his maid, Hagar and gave birth to Ishmael whose descendant are still terrorizing the nation of Israel and the world till date. Moses could not enter the promise land because of anger and unbelief. It is therefore our responsibility to do something about the salvation of our souls which involves the renewing of our minds, aligning our will with the will of God and controlling every negative emotion that work against us. This will be discussed in details in the next chapter.

Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1942), Vol. XIV, p. 81.Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in their rendering of the original-language words. For example: (1) The King James Version rendered she’ohlʹ as “hell,” “the grave,” and “the pit”; haiʹdes is therein rendered both “hell” and “grave”; geʹen·na is also translated “hell.” (2) Today’s English Version transliterates haiʹdes as “Hades” and also renders it as “hell” and “the world of the dead.” But besides rendering “hell” from haiʹdes it uses that same translation for geʹen·na. (3) The Jerusalem Bible transliterates haiʹdes six times, but in other passages it translates it as “hell” and as “the underworld.” It also translates geʹen·na as “hell,” as it does haiʹdes in two instances. Thus the exact meanings of the original-language words have been obscured

Ken4Christ:


You are looking for scriptures. I don't have issues with that. I have a whole book with hundreds of Scripture on the subject of hell. It's on Amazon. Just go through the few quotes below;

Passages Showing Strong Phrases Used To Describe Hell and The Nature of The Punishment.

1. The Fire is Eternal.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

2. The Fire is Everlasting.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels:

3. There Shall Be Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

4. It is a Fire That Shall Never Be Quenched.

Mark 9:43-44
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
44 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:45-46
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
46 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:47-48
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be CAST INTO HELL FIRE.

48 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

5. There Shall Be Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into OUTER DARKNESS; there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH .

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Luke 13:28 There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

6. The Lake of Fire Which is the Final Destination of Lost Souls Burns with Brimstone.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

7. The Devil Himself Shall Be Thrown into The Lake of Fire and Shall Be Tormented Day and Night.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.

Jude 7, KJ: “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah ceased burning thousands of years ago. But the effect of that fire has been lasting; the cities have not been rebuilt. God’s judgment, however, was against not merely those cities but also their wicked inhabitants. What happened to them is a warning example. At Luke 17:29, Jesus says that they were “destroyed”; Jude 7 shows that the destruction was eternal.)

Ken4Christ:


You are looking for scriptures. I don't have issues with that. I have a whole book with hundreds of Scripture on the subject of hell. It's on Amazon. Just go through the few quotes below;

Passages Showing Strong Phrases Used To Describe Hell and The Nature of The Punishment.

1. The Fire is Eternal.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

2. The Fire is Everlasting.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels:

3. There Shall Be Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

4. It is a Fire That Shall Never Be Quenched.

Mark 9:43-44
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
44 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:45-46
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
46 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:47-48
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be CAST INTO HELL FIRE.

48 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

5. There Shall Be Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into OUTER DARKNESS; there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH .

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Luke 13:28 There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

6. The Lake of Fire Which is the Final Destination of Lost Souls Burns with Brimstone.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

7. The Devil Himself Shall Be Thrown into The Lake of Fire and Shall Be Tormented Day and Night.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.

What is the meaning of the ‘eternal torment’ referred to in Revelation?Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10, KJ: “If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment [Greek, basa·ni·smouʹ] ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”What is the ‘torment’ to which these texts refer? It is noteworthy that at Revelation 11:10 (KJ) reference is made to ‘prophets that torment those dwelling on the earth.’ Such torment results from humiliating exposure by the messages that these prophets proclaim. At Revelation 14:9-11 (KJ) worshipers of the symbolic “beast and his image” are said to be “tormented with fire and brimstone.” This cannot refer to conscious torment after death because “the dead know not any thing.” (Eccl. 9:5, KJ) Then, what causes them to experience such torment while they are still alive? It is the proclamation by God’s servants that worshipers of the “beast and his image” will experience second death, which is represented by “the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.” The smoke, associated with their fiery destruction, ascends forever because the destruction will be eternal and will never be forgotten. When Revelation 20:10 says that the Devil is to experience ‘torment forever and ever’ in “the lake of fire and brimstone,” what does that mean? Revelation 21:8 (KJ) says clearly that “the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone” means “the second death.” So the Devil’s being “tormented” there forever means that there will be no relief for him; he will be held under restraint forever, actually in eternal death. This use of the word “torment” (from the Greek baʹsa·nos) reminds one of its use at Matthew 18:34, where the same basic Greek word is applied to a ‘jailer.’—RS, AT, ED, NW.

Ken4Christ:


You are looking for scriptures. I don't have issues with that. I have a whole book with hundreds of Scripture on the subject of hell. It's on Amazon. Just go through the few quotes below;

Passages Showing Strong Phrases Used To Describe Hell and The Nature of The Punishment.

1. The Fire is Eternal.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

2. The Fire is Everlasting.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels:

3. There Shall Be Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

4. It is a Fire That Shall Never Be Quenched.

Mark 9:43-44
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
44 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:45-46
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
46 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:47-48
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be CAST INTO HELL FIRE.

48 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

5. There Shall Be Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into OUTER DARKNESS; there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH .

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Luke 13:28 There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

6. The Lake of Fire Which is the Final Destination of Lost Souls Burns with Brimstone.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

7. The Devil Himself Shall Be Thrown into The Lake of Fire and Shall Be Tormented Day and Night.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.

What is the ‘fiery Gehenna’ to which Jesus referred?Reference to Gehenna appears 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Five times it is directly associated with fire. Translators have rendered the Greek expression geʹen·nan tou py·rosʹ as “hell fire” (KJ, Dy), “fires of hell” (NE), “fiery pit” (AT), and “fires of Gehenna” (NAB).Historical background: The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s “whole body” into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.

Ken4Christ:


You are looking for scriptures. I don't have issues with that. I have a whole book with hundreds of Scripture on the subject of hell. It's on Amazon. Just go through the few quotes below;

Passages Showing Strong Phrases Used To Describe Hell and The Nature of The Punishment.

1. The Fire is Eternal.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

2. The Fire is Everlasting.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels:

3. There Shall Be Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

4. It is a Fire That Shall Never Be Quenched.

Mark 9:43-44
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
44 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:45-46
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
46 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:47-48
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be CAST INTO HELL FIRE.

48 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

5. There Shall Be Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into OUTER DARKNESS; there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH .

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Luke 13:28 There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

6. The Lake of Fire Which is the Final Destination of Lost Souls Burns with Brimstone.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

7. The Devil Himself Shall Be Thrown into The Lake of Fire and Shall Be Tormented Day and Night.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.

What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.”After one’s death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God’s personality?Jer. 7:31: “They [apostate Judeans] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.” (If it never came into God’s heart, surely he does not have and use such a thing on a larger scale.)Illustration: What would you think of a parent who held his child’s hand over a fire to punish the child for wrongdoing? “God is love.” (1 John 4: Would he do what no right-minded human parent would do? Certainly not!

Ken4Christ:


You are looking for scriptures. I don't have issues with that. I have a whole book with hundreds of Scripture on the subject of hell. It's on Amazon. Just go through the few quotes below;

Passages Showing Strong Phrases Used To Describe Hell and The Nature of The Punishment.

1. The Fire is Eternal.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

2. The Fire is Everlasting.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels:

3. There Shall Be Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

4. It is a Fire That Shall Never Be Quenched.

Mark 9:43-44
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
44 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:45-46
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
46 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:47-48
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be CAST INTO HELL FIRE.

48 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

5. There Shall Be Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into OUTER DARKNESS; there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH .

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Luke 13:28 There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

6. The Lake of Fire Which is the Final Destination of Lost Souls Burns with Brimstone.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

7. The Devil Himself Shall Be Thrown into The Lake of Fire and Shall Be Tormented Day and Night.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.

What is the origin of the teaching of hellfire?
In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom’s hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

Ken4Christ:


You are looking for scriptures. I don't have issues with that. I have a whole book with hundreds of Scripture on the subject of hell. It's on Amazon. Just go through the few quotes below;

Passages Showing Strong Phrases Used To Describe Hell and The Nature of The Punishment.

1. The Fire is Eternal.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.

2. The Fire is Everlasting.

Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels:

3. There Shall Be Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

4. It is a Fire That Shall Never Be Quenched.

Mark 9:43-44
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
44 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:45-46
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into THE FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED.
46 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Mark 9:47-48
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be CAST INTO HELL FIRE.

48 Where their worm dieth not, and THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

5. There Shall Be Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into OUTER DARKNESS; there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH .

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.

Luke 13:28 There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

6. The Lake of Fire Which is the Final Destination of Lost Souls Burns with Brimstone.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE.

7. The Devil Himself Shall Be Thrown into The Lake of Fire and Shall Be Tormented Day and Night.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE and BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER.

No 1.
It's not because he was rich.

No. 2
It's not a parable.

No. 3
The answer to your question is found in that same story.
He was a rich man, not listening to the dictates of Moses and the Prophets.
Thereby living carelessly.

That's why he petitioned that he might be sent back home, that he might warn his family about the danger of living carelessly.
And his petitioned was not granted.
But was told that his family left behind have the dictates of Moses, and prophets preaching these things, to listen to.

Luke 16 : 28 - 29.

annyplenty:
Let us rub minds together.

The scripture did not explicity say why the rich man in Luke 16:19-31 go to hell.

Can you infer from the scripture why he ended in hell.

Blue86:
No 1.
It's not because he was rich.

No. 2
It's not a parable.

No. 3
The answer to your question is found in that same story.
He was a rich man, not listening to the dictates of Moses and the Prophets.
Thereby living carelessly.

That's why he petitioned that he might be sent back home, that he might warn his family about the danger of living carelessly.
And his petitioned was not granted.
But was told that his family left behind have the dictates of Moses, and prophets preaching these things, to listen to.

Luke 16 : 28 - 29.

Very apt

mtngloetiartel:
What is the origin of the teaching of hellfire?
In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom’s hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

You wanted scriptures and I have given them to you. Make your argument on the basis of those scriptures rather than quoting the lies of Russell and Rutherford.

You are talking as though there is no past judgment where God destroyed with fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire including the children there.

And Jude 7 affirms that they are still suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

So, you either believe God's word or Rutherford. If you choose to believe Rutherford, you will end up in hell because that is where he is presently for bringing false teachings.

NNTR:
Luke 16:22-24
22Now it happened that the poor man died
and his spirit was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom (paradise);
and the rich man also died and was buried.
23In Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he looked up
and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom (paradise).
24And he cried out,
‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me,
and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water
and cool my tongue, because I am in severe agony in this flame.’

Jumbojax dearest beloved, lets cut to the chase.

1. To the best of your understanding and in all seriousness, is the finger of Lazarus, mentioned in Luke 16:24 real?
2. To the best of your understanding and in all seriousness, is the tongue of the rich man, mentioned in Luke 16:24 real?
3. Is the 'Jack and Jill' nursery rhyme too, a real life narrative?

No one is disputing with you whether or not Hades, Sheol, Abraham's bosom, paradise, lake of fire or heavens exists, and so all what you typed here, are wholly beside the critical point under discussion

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Homie I already outlined my reasoning for why the rich man went to hell earlier on the thread, plus kobojunkie was disputing how real the story was that's why the extra facts were employed plus comparing a fictitious man-made nursery rhyme with the words of Jesus. C'mon man . Where do you place the truth of the Bible on your list of priorities?

Those two men you mentioned (Russell and Rutherford) actually based their bible research on the scriptures. Your argument is not in harmony with the entire bible message. You are not handling the word of God aright. For instance, you are saying that Sodom and Gomorrah still burning till date. You are not to take Jude 7 literal because that verse mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah as a warning example. Jude 7: In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. The Bible is not here saying that the fire of Sodom and Gomorrah is still burning till this day. It is only remind us of the impending judgment that is to met on the wicked ones using Sodom and Gomorrah as example. The destruction by fire of those wicked ones back then was everlasting or final. Anything destroyed by fire is irredeemable. Thus this imply that there is no hope of resurrection of the wicked ones. Thier destruction is eternal. Mind you, in the bible, fire is symbolically use to imply destruction. This harmonize with some other bible text with regard to the fate of the wicked ones and in contrast to that of the righteous ones. See Psalms 37:9-11 for instance.

Ken4Christ:


You wanted scriptures and I have given them to you. Make your argument on the basis of those scriptures rather than quoting the lies of Russell and Rutherford.

You are talking as though there is no past judgment where God destroyed with fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire including the children there.

And Jude 7 affirms that they are still suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

So, you either believe God's word or Rutherford. If you choose to believe Rutherford, you will end up in hell because that is where he is presently for bringing false teachings.

Do you know that Satan is not even in the lake of fire now? Instead, Satan is actively roaming about the entire inhabited earth seeking whom to devour. (Rev.12:7-9;12) In fact, he is the ruler of this world. Hence it condition. (1John5:19) So, the time is coming, when Satan would be destroyed in totality (or forever). This is what is symbolically portrayed in vision by the Apostle John at Rev. 20:10. Note here that Satan would be cast into a lake of fire. What would you expect of paper thrown into fire? Is it redeemable?
All these are symbolic. They are not to be taken literal yet the message is clear.

Ken4Christ:


You wanted scriptures and I have given them to you. Make your argument on the basis of those scriptures rather than quoting the lies of Russell and Rutherford.

You are talking as though there is no past judgment where God destroyed with fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire including the children there.

And Jude 7 affirms that they are still suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

So, you either believe God's word or Rutherford. If you choose to believe Rutherford, you will end up in hell because that is where he is presently for bringing false teachings.

Kobojunkie:
This is wrong because we will all be like the angels is what is written of all those who are resurrected, not just the "good" people. What this means is that even the bad people will raised with an eternal body hence the reason why Jesus Christ said they will be condemned to eternal damnation - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46.

you only repeated what i said in my opening sentence

good or bad folks will have eternal bodies

being like angels or Jesus is only for good folks - shiny and chrome(like adam at the beginning, like moses when he was with God on the mountain)

maticar:
■ you only repeated what i said in my opening sentence. good or bad folks will have eternal bodies. being like angels or Jesus is only for good folks - shiny and chrome(like adam at the beginning, like moses when he was with God on the mountain)

The statement in bold is untrue though because Jesus Christ never said only the good will be raised with bodies like the angels. He said that of all those who will be raised.

Leiylau:
Can you set ur enemy on gasoline fire and watch him burn nonstop as he cries and gnashes his teeth for just 2weeks, remember you aren't god of love.

NNTR:
Matthew 10:28
And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul.
Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Some trash you recycle, some you literally just give away, some end up in your rubbish bin. There's a reason, why you throw stuff into your rubbish bin, to head off to the incinerating plant site, isnt it?

I am not permitted to do such thing. It is only God who has the power and prerogative to destroy souls and body in the sulphuric Lake of Fire

How does any of this reduce the price of kongo of garri in the country

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

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enilove:
Your flesh will decay but the soul will burn in hell for eternity :

Psalm 9:17 KJV
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

NNTR:
Great stuff!

Matthew 10:28
'And do not be afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul,
but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.'

What was Adam before God filled him with ruach, the breath of God also known as the air or wind of God, alternatively called life-force, that was breathed in to Adam's nostril.

I tell you, for free, what Adam was. Adam was a dead soul before the life-force was breathed into him. Here's the point, souls are not immortal, meaning, souls being combustible, as soon after they get destroyed by fire, they cease to exist.

Death and hell, end up in the Lake of Fire to be destroyed, as for souls, that are in same lake of Fire, they dont burn in it for eternity, past already being destroyed

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

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Jumbojax:
Homie I already outlined my reasoning for why the rich man went to hell earlier on the thread, plus kobojunkie was disputing how real the story was that's why the extra facts were employed plus comparing a fictitious man-made nursery rhyme with the words of Jesus. C'mon man .
Where do you place the truth of the Bible on your list of priorities?

Matthew 5:29-30
29If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you.
For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.
30If your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off, and throw it away from you.
For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.

Jumbojax dearest beloved, on every parable of Jesus, we ride on truths

1. What are the truth and things to be learned in Matthew 5:29 above
2. What is Gehenna mentioned in Matthew 5:30 equally in above there

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

mtngloetiartel:
Do you know that Satan is not even in the lake of fire now? Instead, Satan is actively roaming about the entire inhabited earth seeking whom to devour. (Rev.12:7-9;12) In fact, he is the ruler of this world. Hence it condition. (1John5:19) So, the time is coming, when Satan would be destroyed in totality (or forever). This is what is symbolically portrayed in vision by the Apostle John at Rev. 20:10. Note here that Satan would be cast into a lake of fire. What would you expect of paper thrown into fire? Is it redeemable?
All these are symbolic. They are not to be taken literal yet the message is clear.

You can't just jump into conclusion that a word or event in a story is symbolic especially when the description in the event says otherwise.

It's a must stupid position to make such assumption.

mtngloetiartel:
Those two men you mentioned (Russell and Rutherford) actually based their bible research on the scriptures. Your argument is not in harmony with the entire bible message. You are not handling the word of God aright. For instance, you are saying that Sodom and Gomorrah still burning till date. You are not to take Jude 7 literal because that verse mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah as a warning example. Jude 7: In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. The Bible is not here saying that the fire of Sodom and Gomorrah is still burning till this day. It is only remind us of the impending judgment that is to met on the wicked ones using Sodom and Gomorrah as example. The destruction by fire of those wicked ones back then was everlasting or final. Anything destroyed by fire is irredeemable. Thus this imply that there is no hope of resurrection of the wicked ones. Thier destruction is eternal. Mind you, in the bible, fire is symbolically use to imply destruction. This harmonize with some other bible text with regard to the fate of the wicked ones and in contrast to that of the righteous ones. See Psalms 37:9-11 for instance.

Was the fire used in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah symbolic?

Listen to what the Bible is saying. You are not paying attention to the scriptures. The account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah city was a real event that happened thousands of years ago. The fire that burn that city also ceased burning since then. But the effect of that fire has been lasting; the cities have not been rebuilt till date (go and verify). God’s judgment, however, was against not merely those cities but also their wicked inhabitants. What happened to them is a warning example for us today. Now this is a lesson for us that the Bible remind us at Jude 7. Even, the name Sodom has become the basis for the word “sodomy,” which usually designates a homosexual practice. Compare Genesis 19:4, 5, 24, 25.

Ken4Christ:


Was the fire used in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah symbolic?

Pls pick up all Bible translations you have at your disposal or go online and browse Revelations chapter 1 verse 1 (Rev.1:1) the opening verse of the book of Revelation. Note how it show that the book is a vision as communicated to the Apostle John from Jesus thru and Angel. By the time you go further and read the entire book, you will agree that the message was passed symbolically or with signs. In other words, it is not literal! For instance, is the wild beast described in the revelation account, literal?

Berean Literal Bible
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants what things it behooves to take place in quickness. And He signified it through having sent His angel to His servant, John,

King James Bible
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

New King James Version
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

NASB 1995
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

NASB 1977
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

Legacy Standard Bible
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His slaves the things which must soon happen; and He indicated this by sending it through His angel to His slave John,

Amplified Bible
This is the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries], which God [the Father] gave to Him to show to His bond-servants (believers) the things which must soon take place [in their entirety]; and He sent and communicated it by His angel (divine messenger) to His bond-servant John,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave Him to show His slaves what must quickly take place. He sent it and signified it through His angel to His slave John,

American Standard Version
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The Revelation of Yeshua The Messiah, which God gave to him, to show his Servants what had been given to soon occur, and he symbolized it when he sent by his Angel to his Servant Yohannan,

Ken4Christ:


You can't just jump into conclusion that a word or event in a story is symbolic especially when the description in the event says otherwise.

It's a must stupid position to make such assumption.

NNTR:

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Matthew 5:29-30
29If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you.
For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.
30If your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off, and throw it away from you.
For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.

Jumbojax dearest beloved, on every parable of Jesus, we ride on truths

1. What are the truth and things to be learned in Matthew 5:29 above
2. What is Gehenna mentioned in Matthew 5:30 equally in above there

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Matthew 5:29-30 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into HELL.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into HELL.

Rejecting Hell is just a feeble attempt at absolving yourself of the responsibility of your sinful actions. There is a hell. And man should be finding every way possible to escape it. Because it is forever. Sodom and Gomorrah is not just a city it is the people that are burningin hell forever after their physical burning of hail and brimstones.
I've read a lot of hell rejecting opinions on this thread and my own is that you guys don't understand the perfection and unlimited power of God.
Noone should be able to sin against God and get away with it. NOONE. He is HOLY completely perfect and HE has created everything for HIS pleasure. And we displease Him all the time. Cheapening His judgement and even going as far as saying His punishment for that insane decision of sin(hell) is dishonouring HiM. God help us all. The Bible said Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a CONSUMING FIRE 🔥, even a jealous God.
You as a man as well the devil are created to have an eternal soul that will never end. And that soul will pay for the sins you committed against a perfect God. Because He made you perfect. But you chose imperfection. And the devil that decieves us will as well burn eternally.
But God who is love has extended a singular hope a chance of escape from hell. Trusting in Jesus Christ the ONLY begotten son of God. We are not all God's children until we believe on Jesus Christ and recieve the adoption of sons. John 3:16

mtngloetiartel:
Listen to what the Bible is saying. You are not paying attention to the scriptures. The account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah city was a real event that happened thousands of years ago. The fire that burn that city also ceased burning since then. But the effect of that fire has been lasting; the cities have not been rebuilt till date (go and verify). God’s judgment, however, was against not merely those cities but also their wicked inhabitants. What happened to them is a warning example for us today. Now this is a lesson for us that the Bible remind us at Jude 7. Even, the name Sodom has become the basis for the word “sodomy,” which usually designates a homosexual practice. Compare Genesis 19:4, 5, 24, 25.

So, you agree that the fire was literal. So, if God used a literal fire to destroy the cities then, what makes you think that he can't use it again?

Of course, the fire has ceased burning. But the one in hell does not cease. Jesus said, 'the fire is not quenched'.

In another place, it said it is an everlasting fire.

Why do you find it difficult to believe what Jesus said?

Who damaged your brain?

Why happened to your reasoning faculty?

mtngloetiartel:
Pls pick up all Bible translations you have at your disposal or go online and browse Revelations chapter 1 verse 1 (Rev.1:1) the opening verse of the book of Revelation. Note how it show that the book is a vision as communicated to the Apostle John from Jesus thru and Angel. By the time you go further and read the entire book, you will agree that the message was passed symbolically or with signs. In other words, it is not literal! For instance, is the wild beast described in the revelation account, literal?

Berean Literal Bible
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants what things it behooves to take place in quickness. And He signified it through having sent His angel to His servant, John,

King James Bible
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

New King James Version
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

NASB 1995
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

NASB 1977
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

Legacy Standard Bible
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His slaves the things which must soon happen; and He indicated this by sending it through His angel to His slave John,

Amplified Bible
This is the revelation of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries], which God [the Father] gave to Him to show to His bond-servants (believers) the things which must soon take place [in their entirety]; and He sent and communicated it by His angel (divine messenger) to His bond-servant John,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave Him to show His slaves what must quickly take place. He sent it and signified it through His angel to His slave John,

American Standard Version
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The Revelation of Yeshua The Messiah, which God gave to him, to show his Servants what had been given to soon occur, and he symbolized it when he sent by his Angel to his Servant Yohannan,

And in most of the verses, the symbols were explained.

In some, he did not use symbols.

For instance, John saw Jesus. Is Jesus a symbol? Certainly not.

You must determine within the context of the passage whether it was a symbol used or not. And also find out if the symbol was explained.

You don't just jump into conclusion that everything used is symbol. If God gave us a revelation and makes it difficult to understand, then he should not given it to us. But, the message is clear and when symbols are used, they are explained in most cases.

I had been saying it that people like you don't know how to read the Bible. I showed u a simple verse, you keep making incoherent argument about it. The opening verse of the book of Revelation made it clear that it is a vision the writer (Apostle John) recieved from the Lord Jesus thru an angel. Is this hard to comprehend?
Read it again here in another translation:
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John
What is the headache in this verse? All the Books of the New Testament from Mathew to Revelations begins with introductory verses that show the settings under which they where written. They thus help to understand the context, perspective, motives, or circumstance from which the word of God can be understood. This is what you are missing. I will advise you do this today, read the first or first 2 verses of the first Chapter of all the New Testament books (Matthew to Revelations) Read and meditate on each of them. You are going to learn one or 2 things you had never thought of before
Bible reading require paying more than usual attention. You ought to reason from the Bible perspective.
I asked you earlier, what does the wild beast as described in the book of Revelations stand for? Have you ever seen or heard such animal in existence before?
Again, at Revelations 12: 3,4, John saw in the vision a sign in heaven. He described it as a great fiery coloured dragon, with seven heads and ten horns. How do u understand that sign? Are you going to think of it literally?

Ken4Christ:


And in most of the verses, the symbols were explained.

In some, he did not use symbols.

For instance, John saw Jesus. Is Jesus a symbol? Certainly not.

You must determine within the context of the passage whether it was a symbol used or not. And also find out if the symbol was explained.

You don't just jump into conclusion that everything used is symbol. If God gave us a revelation and makes it difficult to understand, then he should not given it to us. But, the message is clear and when symbols are used, they are explained in most cases.

mtngloetiartel:
I had been saying it that people like you don't know how to read the Bible. I showed u a simple verse, you keep making incoherent argument about it. The opening verse of the book of Revelation made it clear that it is a vision the writer (Apostle John) recieved from the Lord Jesus thru an angel. Is this hard to comprehend?
Read it again here in another translation:
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John
What is the headache in this verse? All the Books of the New Testament from Mathew to Revelations begins with introductory verses that show the settings under which they where written. They thus help to understand the context, perspective, motives, or circumstance from which the word of God can be understood. This is what you are missing. I will advise you do this today, read the first or first 2 verses of the first Chapter of all the New Testament books (Matthew to Revelations) Read and meditate on each of them. You are going to learn one or 2 things you had never thought of before
Bible reading require paying more than usual attention. You ought to reason from the Bible perspective.
I asked you earlier, what does the wild beast as described in the book of Revelations stand for? Have you ever seen or heard such animal in existence before?
Again, at Revelations 12: 3,4, John saw in the vision a sign in heaven. He described it as a great fiery coloured dragon, with seven heads and ten horns. How do u understand that sign? Are you going to think of it literally?

I am a student of eschatology. The four beast before the throne are not literal beast. Their identity were revealed in Revelation 5:9. They represent the church in different dispensation.

The beast that looks like a lion is the early church.

The one that looks like a calf is the church during the period idolatry crept into the church.

The beast that looks like a man represents the church during the reformation period. That was the era Martin Luther started a reform and petitioned the Roman Catholic church. They were described as mere man because they lacked the power of the Holy Spirit.

The last beast that looks like an eagle is the present day church. And it is this church that will witness the rapture of the church.

Now, concerning the beast in Revelation 13 with seven heads and ten horns. The ten horns represents the ten European countries that will form a confederation which will be the new super power on earth after the church age is over.

I could go on and on.

If you don't have the spirit of God, you won't understand all these things. But I do and most of the symbols used in the book of Revelation can be understood.

All these you wrote are false. They don't even make sense. Nor are they in harmony with the overall Bible theme and message. Am sorry the way are said it. This is where I use to be blunt in saying the truth.
Without deviating from the original discussion, at least your response show that the book of Revelations is symbolic. The message therein is to be understood in harmony with d entire Bible showing how remarkably divine prophecy has been fulfilled in d world events of our catastrophic times.
You will need to bear in mind God's grand purpose to understand what Revelations is all about. A Bible proverb says: “Better is the end afterward of a matter than its beginning.” (Ecclesiastes 7: It is in the book of Revelation that we read of the dramatic culmination of God’s grand purpose to sanctify his name before all creation. As God declared time and time again by one of his earlier prophets: “They will have to know that I am the LORD.”​—Ezekiel 25:17; 38:23.

Berean Standard Bible
I will execute great vengeance against them with furious reproof. Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I lay My vengeance upon them.’ ”

King James Bible
And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.

New King James Version
I will execute great vengeance on them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I lay My vengeance upon them.” ’ ”

New American Standard Bible
I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful rebukes; and they will know that I am the LORD, when I inflict My vengeance on them.”’”

NASB 1995
“I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful rebukes; and they will know that I am the LORD when I lay My vengeance on them."’”

NASB 1977
“And I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful rebukes; and they will know that I am the LORD when I lay My vengeance on them.”’”

Legacy Standard Bible
So I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful reproofs; and they will know that I am Yahweh when I lay My vengeance on them.”’”

Amplified Bible
I will execute great vengeance on them with wrathful rebukes and chastisements and they will know [without any doubt] that I am the LORD when I lay My vengeance on them.”’”

Christian Standard Bible
I will execute severe vengeance against them with furious rebukes. They will know that I am the LORD when I take my vengeance on them.’ ”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I will execute great vengeance against them with furious rebukes. They will know that I am Yahweh when I take My vengeance on them.”

American Standard Version
And I will execute great vengeance upon them with wrathful rebukes; and they shall know that I am Jehovah, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I shall exact my great vengeance from them in rebuke and in anger, and they shall know that I AM LORD JEHOVAH, when I have exacted my vengeance from them

Ken4Christ:


I am a student of eschatology. The four beast before the throne are not literal beast. Their identity were revealed in Revelation 5:9. They represent the church in different dispensation.

The beast that looks like a lion is the early church.

The one that looks like a calf is the church during the period idolatry crept into the church.

The beast that looks like a man represents the church during the reformation period. That was the era Martin Luther started a reform and petitioned the Roman Catholic church. They were described as mere man because they lacked the power of the Holy Spirit.

The last beast that looks like an eagle is the present day church. And it is this church that will witness the rapture of the church.

Now, concerning the beast in Revelation 13 with seven heads and ten horns. The ten horns represents the ten European countries that will form a confederation which will be the new super power on earth after the church age is over.

I could go on and on.

If you don't have the spirit of God, you won't understand all these things. But I do and most of the symbols used in the book of Revelation can be understood.

Before u can grasp the visionary message in Revelation, you need to first grasp the theme of the whole bible. The Bible’s first book, Genesis, tells of “the beginning” and describes God’s creative works, including his crowning earthly creation, man. Genesis also sets out the first divine prophecy, uttered by God himself in the garden of Eden some 6,000 years ago. A serpent had just been used to deceive the first woman, Eve; she in turn had persuaded her husband, Adam, to join her in violating God’s law by eating from “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.” In passing judgment on the sinful couple, God said to the serpent: “I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.” (Genesis 1:1; 2:17; 3:1-6, 14, 15) That prophecy sets the theme for the whole Bible, including Revelation.
After God uttered the first prophecy, what happened to our first parents? What questions arise concerning the first prophecy?
You see, Immediately after uttering d prophecy, God expelled our 1st parents from Eden. No longer could they look forward to everlasting life in Paradise; they would have to live out their lives in d unprepared earth outside. Under sentence of death, they would produce sin-laden children. (Genesis 3:23–4:1; Romans 5:12) What, though, does d Edenic prophecy mean? Who are involved? How does it link up with Revelation?
What message does it have for us today? In order to gain personal relief from d effects of the tragic event that led to God’s uttering that prophecy, it is of vital concern that we know d answers to these questions.

Ken4Christ:


I am a student of eschatology. The four beast before the throne are not literal beast. Their identity were revealed in Revelation 5:9. They represent the church in different dispensation.

The beast that looks like a lion is the early church.

The one that looks like a calf is the church during the period idolatry crept into the church.

The beast that looks like a man represents the church during the reformation period. That was the era Martin Luther started a reform and petitioned the Roman Catholic church. They were described as mere man because they lacked the power of the Holy Spirit.

The last beast that looks like an eagle is the present day church. And it is this church that will witness the rapture of the church.

Now, concerning the beast in Revelation 13 with seven heads and ten horns. The ten horns represents the ten European countries that will form a confederation which will be the new super power on earth after the church age is over.

I could go on and on.

If you don't have the spirit of God, you won't understand all these things. But I do and most of the symbols used in the book of Revelation can be understood.

Righteousness2:
He was not saved. He did not have JESUS Christ. He was not born again.

No matter who you are, no matter what you have or what you don't have, If you do not Have a genuine relationship with JESUS CHRIST, you are on your way to Hell fire.

JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY way to Heaven.

Jesus had not come at the time of the rich man. He came at the time of Moses