frosbel:

In all my years of debating Muslims worldwide, I have never seen any other set of religious people who use the Bible so unashamedly to justify their religion and in many cases support the validity of Prophet Muhammad.

Why do Christians not use the Quran to validate Jesus or any prophet for that matter.

Is the Quran incomplete hence it's constant and sometimes almost berserkly desperate reference to the Bible ?

please help me , somebody.

davidylan:

Of course!

If you're in doubt pls ask a muslim to explain the Abrahamic sacrifice that is an islamic rite today WITHOUT recourse to the bible.
Or second, ask a muslim to describe Ishmael SOLELY from the pages of the quran.

davidylan:

Of course!

If you're in doubt pls ask a muslim to explain the Abrahamic sacrifice that is an islamic rite today WITHOUT recourse to the bible.
Or second, ask a muslim to describe Ishmael SOLELY from the pages of the quran.

frosbel:

In all my years of debating Muslims worldwide, I have never seen any other set of religious people who use the Bible so unashamedly to justify their religion and in many cases support the validity of Prophet Muhammad.

Why do Christians not use the Quran to validate Jesus or any prophet for that matter.

Is the Quran incomplete hence it's constant and sometimes almost berserkly desperate reference to the Bible ?

please help me , somebody.

First lets set the record straight, the Muslim only quotes the bible when debating with a christian or a jew, otherwise muslims have no need of the bible. The theology, Laws and precepts of Islam are all set out in the Glorious Qur'an, hadiths and Books of Islamic jurisprudence. Islamic Law is absolutely complete without recourse to the bible.

IMO, Muslims quote the bible during debates with christians because obviously the christian does not beleive in the Qur'an.
Also, the bible is riddled with so many internal contradictions there by providing the muslim with ample ammunition to confront the christian

abubello:

First lets set the record straight, the Muslim only quotes the bible when debating with a christian or a jew, otherwise muslims have no need of the bible. The theology, Laws and precepts of Islam are all set out in the Glorious Qur'an, hadiths and Books of Islamic jurisprudence. Islamic Law is absolutely complete without recourse to the bible.

IMO, Muslims quote the bible during debates with christians because obviously the christian does not beleive in the Qur'an.
Also, the bible is riddled with so many internal contradictions there by providing the muslim with ample ammunition to confront the christian

Joagbaje:

@Froebel
I thought you quote quoran sometimes.
Anyway I've seen many christian quote quoran. Especially former Muslims . One of them who is now a pastor even said that there's enough information in the Quran to convert a Muslim to Christianity . He said many Muslims don't know quoran well.

Sweetnecta:

In the pages of the Quran one will read the dialogue of Ibrahim with his only son at a time and definitely his first son, loyal enough to be able to say that his father will find him by the help of Allah to be a patient slaughter. Did I mention that Allah then says that He called out to Ibrahim that he has fulfilled his dream and the son has been ransomed with a ram from heaven [created and sent for his occasion]? Did I also mention that Allah says that the event is commanded as an everlasting annual event in remembrance of Ibrahim and his obedience to Allah and that it was after this that the birth of Isaaq was promised for the future and then Yaquub was also promised as a nafila; a gift from mercy. By the way muslim make nafila salaah which is only contribution but neither compulsory like the 5 daily prayers or obligated like the sunnah prayer of salatul subh. Let me stop here because i do not want you guys to have a headache from too much information, considering that the process of hajj is explained in hadith [a science that explains verses of the Quran], and that there are chapters named Ibrahim, Ambiyya, Muminu, Hajj where you will find these information[s].

Sweetnecta:

Surah baqarah, imran, nissa, hud, ibrahim, ambiyya, maryam, etc contain bits and pieces of information to give a picture of this man who was so reliable that he will never go back on his word. And thank God many jewish rabbi will point to the fact at he was never a man who gave in to rancor, wondering how Sarah was therefore his enemy, except the lying Bible writers had to create a scenario to justify their evil intent. Olboy did he ever behaved like the Bottom that your God promised or he turned out blessed like your God promised? Frosbel, that is a question for you; head you lose, tail you lose.

frosbel:

In all my years of debating Muslims worldwide, I have never seen any other set of religious people who use the Bible so unashamedly to justify their religion and in many cases support the validity of Prophet Muhammad.

Why do Christians not use the Quran to validate Jesus or any prophet for that matter.

Is the Quran incomplete hence it's constant and sometimes almost berserkly desperate reference to the Bible ?

please help me , somebody.

davidylan:

Of course!

If you're in doubt pls ask a muslim to explain the Abrahamic sacrifice that is an islamic rite today WITHOUT recourse to the bible.
Or second, ask a muslim to describe Ishmael SOLELY from the pages of the quran.

LagosShia:

you do not have to lie and pretend that you were not forced to shut-up your mouth!

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-819003.64.html#msg9774228

Holy Quran 37:99-113
"Abraham said: “I am going to my Lord; He will guide me. Lord, grant me a righteous son.” (In response to this prayer) We gave him the good news of a prudent boy; and when he was old enough to go about and work with him, (one day) Abraham said to him: “My son, I see in my dream that I am slaughtering you. So consider (and tell me) what you think.” He said: “Do as you are bidden. You will find me, if Allah so wills, among the steadfast.” When both surrendered (to Allah’s command) and Abraham flung the son down on his forehead, We cried out: “O Abraham, you have indeed fulfilled your dream. Thus do We reward the good-doers.” This was indeed a plain trial. And We ransomed him with a mighty sacrifice, and We preserved for him a good name among posterity. Peace be upon Abraham. Thus do We reward the good-doers. Surely he was one of Our believing servants. And We gave him the good news of Isaac, a Prophet and among the righteous ones. And We blessed him and Isaac. Among the offspring of the two some did good and some plainly wronged themselves".

davidylan:

How does the above answer these key questions - I was asking for a CLEAR quran-based description of who Ishmael was, who he was born to, where, why, what was his lineage and what covenant did allah make with him and why? I'm not interested in "bits and pieces" of information.

second question - what was the essence of this test? The idea of a human sacrifice occurs in the quran JUST THIS ONCE . . . WHY? What was the purpose of this "test"? Does allah simply wake up and dream up odd tests for his prophets? What is the religious significance of a "ransom" in islam?

In verse 107 the sacrifice with which Ismail was ransomed is described as great by Allah, therefore it must be great in absolute degree. An ordinary ram by no means, in any sense whatsoever, can be termed as great; moreover under no circumstances a ram can be greater than Ismail son of Ibrahim, both the most distinguished prophets of Allah, in whose progeny Allah had appointed His divinely commissioned Imams (see commentary of Baqarah : 124). The ransom, therefore, is essentially a great sacrifice Allah had kept in store for future when the religion of Allah would be perfected and completed after the advent of the Holy Prophet.

It was indeed a great and momentous occasion when two men of God stood ready to offer to Allah that which was dearest to them to seek His pleasure, then Allah puts off this great manifestation of "devotion and surrender to His will" which was the real purpose of the trial (not blood and flesh) to a future date, so that the "devotion and surrender to Allah's will" should be demonstrated in a greater style and degree than what Ibrahim and Ismail could. This type of service Imam Husayn performed, many ages later, in 60 A.H., and as he was a descendant of Ibrahim and Ismail the credit of "the great sacrifice" goes to them also. For the great sacrifice of Imam Husayn read the biography of Imam Husayn published by our Trust, a close study of which makes clear that his sacrifice has been rightly mentioned as dhibhin azim in this verse.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Shah Wali-ullah, in Sirrush Shahadaytan, and many other well known authors of traditions and history have accepted the fact that dhibhin azim refers to the sacrifice of Imam Husayn. See also my note in the commentary of verses 83 to 113.



http://quran.al-islam.org/

Joagbaje:

@Froebel
I thought you quote quoran sometimes.

brentkruge:

The Quran can never be understood on its own!

Imagine the Quran without other religious texts (In reality there will be no Quran really but lets assume), It will be the most confusing book on earth! No rhyme or reason, people appear from nowhere, things happen abruptly, chapters placed confusingly! Muslims have therefore developed the Hadith to help untangle the maze. But still its like a gordon knot

So many historical inaccuracies for example Quran mistakes Jesus’ mother Mary for Moses’ sister Mariam, But Aaron, the brother of Moses, lived and died centuries before Mary, the mother of Jesus was born; and Aaron’s sister was Miriam, not Mary. There is a time gap of more than 12 centuries between Jesus’ mother Mary and Moses’ sister Miriam. Other mistakes such as the earth is flat, the sun sets in a muddy pool etc. Just google these and tons more come up.

The Quran is not arranged logically. The part where Muhammad receives his revelation is smack in the middle (Sura 96 or something). The logical thing is to have it arranged chronologically. The reader is left to sort it out! This is why ordinary Muslims cannot read the book on their own and reach conclusions on their destinies. They depend on Mallams who tell them what they (Mallams) want them to hear; a violent Mallam tells his student the violent portions (they turn out to be Boko Harams etc) and the moderate ones teach them the moderate verses (they turn out respectable members of the society). That is why moderates feel hurt, angry and confused when confronted with the violent verses and contradictions, while the violent ones see the moderates as weak and adulterated Muslims. Of course the radicals ones say questioning the Quran is forbidden cos its akin to challenging the authority of the Prophet. Anyone who does that deserves to be dispatched to the great beyond.


How can anybody quote the Quran but Muslims? The book is just unreliable.

LagosShia:

you wanted to know who was sacrificed.so the verses i presented present a sequence of events in Abraham's (as) life and him begetting two sons.

other verses tell us too he was the son of Abraham and he was righteous and a prophet. me too i would like to know how to prepare Sushi.does the bible teach you that?

the essence of the test is recorded to in the Quran.the religious significance of a "sacrifice" is devotion.

"This was indeed a plain trial".(Quran 37)

for more on the "ransom" and who it was,read the commentary of Ayatollah Mehdi Pooya:

goggs:

hey why did you have to use a "commentary" to fill in the gaps?

couldn't you have just relied on the Quran?



you just confirmed part of what brentkruge wrote

brentkruge:

The Quran can never be understood on its own!

Imagine the Quran without other religious texts (In reality there will be no Quran really but lets assume), It will be the most confusing book on earth! No rhyme or reason, people appear from nowhere, things happen abruptly, chapters placed confusingly! Muslims have therefore developed the Hadith to help untangle the maze. But still its like a gordon knot

So many historical inaccuracies for example Quran mistakes Jesus’ mother Mary for Moses’ sister Mariam, But Aaron, the brother of Moses, lived and died centuries before Mary, the mother of Jesus was born; and Aaron’s sister was Miriam, not Mary. There is a time gap of more than 12 centuries between Jesus’ mother Mary and Moses’ sister Miriam. Other mistakes such as the earth is flat, the sun sets in a muddy pool etc. Just google these and tons more come up.

The Quran is not arranged logically. The part where Muhammad receives his revelation is smack in the middle (Sura 96 or something). The logical thing is to have it arranged chronologically. The reader is left to sort it out! This is why ordinary Muslims cannot read the book on their own and reach conclusions on their destinies. They depend on Mallams who tell them what they (Mallams) want them to hear; a violent Mallam tells his student the violent portions (they turn out to be Boko Harams etc) and the moderate ones teach them the moderate verses (they turn out respectable members of the society). That is why moderates feel hurt, angry and confused when confronted with the violent verses and contradictions, while the violent ones see the moderates as weak and adulterated Muslims. Of course the radicals ones say questioning the Quran is forbidden cos its akin to challenging the authority of the Prophet. Anyone who does that deserves to be dispatched to the great beyond.

How can anybody quote the Quran but Muslims? The book is just unreliable.

LagosShia:

mumu! as if christians dont have bible commentary.but anyways let me answer you:

Davidylan asked for the "significance of ransom" in Islam.so he got the answer from an Islamic scholar.

Davidylan asked for the "significance of ransom" in Islam.so he got the answer from an Islamic scholar.

goggs:

Yes oh! there are commentaries for the Bible for people going to theological schools etc BUT who has quoted them here?

its because the Bible is very clear on its own ( I have not had cause to use them in replying you and I have not seen ANYBODY who has)

When Muslims quote the Bible DO THEY QUOTE COMMENTARIES? BUT when other scholars examine the Quran, it has to be with the Hadith to understand the situation,

Have you ever heard that Christians quote commentaries or accounts of the life of Jesus (eg as in your Hadith) on matters of faith? Because there is no need.

The BIBLE is STAND ALONE

and you think if you search on nairaland you wont find it?i think recently "Judek" did.and if i put in the time i'd bring it out.

and please let it be the last time you talk of the evil bible,full of confusion and contradiction.

Sweetnecta:

^Is the Bible the life of Jesus? Why then is the life so disjointed especially the varied narratives of the same incident by the gospel writers? I see why there is no Gospel of Jesus and surprisingly, Jesus was never called Immanuel.

Sweetnecta:

The reason hadith/sunnah, commentaries must be used to explain the huge information carried by verses of the Quran is the same reason there was the Another Comforter. I opened a thread on that already.You are welcome to contribute without being off topic.

Sweetnecta:

Muslims quote the Bibles to point out to you where you are wrong about God, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers/Prophets, etc.

We do not quote the Bible among ourselves because the Quran is Sufficient with the Hadith and Sunnah making it clear and very easy to follow.

LagosShia:

you skull is too thick to understand it.
Holy Quran 3:7
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-742103.0.html#msg8982831

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-807308.0.html#msg9593268


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Gp6ecagdM&feature=related
the Quran is for all times.so therefore it is not a story book like the bible where it starts with "in the begining"!

but you said muslims dont understand it.how come we do?

go and ie!thats what haters always do!!!

LagosShia:

and you think if you search on nairaland you wont find it?i think recently "Judek" did.and if i put in the time i'd bring it out.

and please let it be the last time you talk of the evil bible,full of confusion and contradiction.

"Cannibalism In The Bible"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-844091.0.html

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https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-844089.0.html

"The Bible's Moon Of Blood"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-844071.0.html

"What Exactly Is The Bible"?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-844069.0.html

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https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-838252.0.html

"10 Cases Of "pious" Ra.pe In The Bible"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-838004.0.html

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https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-837998.0.html

"Slavery Is Authorized And Blessed In The Bible By The Bible God Himself"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-838001.0.html

"The Fraud Of Christianity-What Is "Pious Fraud"?!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-836657.0.html

"New Testament (bible) Fairytale Or Horror Story"?!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-830551.0.html

"Everyone Should Be Stoned In The Bible"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-817500.0.html

"Biblical Verses of Killing and Terror"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-817498.0.html

"Killing Children Is Bible Miracle"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-735998.0.html

"Women In Christianity And The Bible"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-821509.0.html

"Bible (im)morality"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739876.0.html

"Bible Verses Churches Conceal From Your Ears":  
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-743341.0.html

"According To The Bible:if Your Wife Saves Your Life,you Cut Off Her Hand"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=736626.msg8931460#msg8931460

"Bible Scholars Admit To Bible Text Discrepancies"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-734053.0.html

"False Prophecies Of The New Testament" (bible)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-550247.0.html

"Proof Of Plagiarism In The Christian New Testament From The Jewish Old Testament"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820199.0.html

"Bible Verses Of How Paul Contradicted Jesus (as)"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820209.0.html

"Glaring,Confusing,Disturbing And Heart-aching Contradictions In The Bible"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820219.0.html

"The Bible And How God Himself "deceived" His People And Led Them Astray!"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-833213.0.html

"Bible Unceremonious "$piritual Food""
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-831584.0.html

Judek2:

Please show me where I did.