Interesting

ramalot:

With that said, you sir just validated my original statement.

my advice to you is to learn sincerely with an open mind.study Islam and compare with others.leave preconceived notions aside and dont follow what hate mongers say.

for the fact that you are confused and cannot make up your mind on any religion,is not our fault and it does not mean we should be like you.

and the topic of this thread really has nothing to do with you.so please let the christians air what they want to say.give chance to them to convince me.

These so called christians are just ludicrous!
They worship a jewish capenter who never called himself God
They believe in a book (bible) that doesnt acknowledge itself or even bear it own name
They follow a religion (christianity) that jesus never heared of or even originated

In the begining was the word: the word was with God and the word was God. He was with God in the begining. Through him all things came to be, not one thing had its being but through him. All that came to be had life in him and that life was the light of men, a light that shine in the dark, a light that darkness could not over power. A man came, sent by God. His name was John. He came as a witness, as a witness to speak for the light. The word was the true light that enlightens all men; and he was coming into the world. He was in the world, that had its being through him, and the world did not know him. He came to his own domain and his own people did not accept it. But to all who did accept him he gave the power to become children of God, to all who believe in the name of him who was born not of human stock or urge of the flesh or will of man but of God himself. The word was made flesh, he lived among us, and we saw his glory, the glory that is his as the only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth. John appears as his witness. He proclaims: This is the one of whom I said: He who comes after me ranks before me because  he existed before me. Indeed from his fulness we have, all of us, received yes, grace in return for grace, since, though the Law was given through Moses, grace and truth have come through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God: it is the only Son, who is nearest to the Father's heart, who has made him known. John 1 : 1 - 18.
+) The Gospel of the Lord. (+

In the begining was the word: the word was with God and the word was God.

He was with God in the begining. Through him all things came to be, not one thing had its being but through him.

All that came to be had life in him and that life was the light of men, a light that shine in the dark, a light that darkness could not over power.

A man came, sent by God. His name was John.

He came as a witness, as a witness to speak for the light.

The word was the true light that enlightens all men; and he was coming into the world.

He was in the world, that had its being through him, and the world did not know him.

He came to his own domain and his own people did not accept it.

But to all who did accept him he gave the power to become children of God, to all who believe in the name of him who was born not of human stock or urge of the flesh or will of God himself.

The word was made flesh, he lived among us, and we saw his glory, the glory that is his as the only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John appears as his witness. He proclaims: This is the one of whom I said: He who comes after me ranks before me because  he existed before me.

Indeed from his fulness we have, all of us, received yes, grace in return for grace, since, though the Law was given through Moses, grace and truth have come through Jesus Christ.

No one has seen God: it is the only Son, who is nearest to the Father's heart, who has made him known.

John 1 : 1 - 18.

**just breaking it down and making it easier to read**

ramalot:

With that said, you sir just validated my original statement.

Your statement is hallow just like atheism, I believe the next logical question should have been why do you consider other systems illogical thereby false, we see that even you validated your original statements, an illogical faith in your "rightness".

Chei this xtians are so daft, just 2 questions to gain more soul for your religion it take you guys about 4pages and days with no answer, Why are you practicing what does not exist? I never say Jesus did not exist, But did he ever say i am God worship me? Did he ever say my religion is Christianity? Like one of my xtian friend always said, Someone people just go to church for going sake, Some dont know what they practice and i think this is the simple truth.

you know they can not answer the question definitively.

not true.


people know he [and others] have already blocked their minds to whatever answer is given, so why bother.


if it comes to that, NO question in this world can be answered definitively by ANYBODY.

tpia@:

not true.


people know he [and others] have already blocked their minds to whatever answer is given, so why bother.


if it comes to that, NO question in this world can be answered definitively.

haba tpia!

you of all people dont have to lie.i can see you guys are citing John 1 in posts above.John 1 does not answer either of my questions.it does not at all answer the question of showing me where Jesus claimed divinity or demanded worship.firstly what you are citing is not believed or said to have been spoken or written by Jesus himself.aside,even in meaning,understanding and translation does not tell us that Jesus is "god".talking about the "logos" or the "word of God" which became flesh is quite simple to understand even in the islamic context and John 1 can easily be understood in that context which would take it away from a literal meaning to a symbolic non-literal meaning or understanding.

let me demonstrate it for you.in Islam and in the Quran we are told that Jesus is "the word of God".but now ask yourself is the "word of God" Jesus? Jesus was made according to the Quran through the mighty word of God "BE" and he "became".for you to literally take the "word of God" to be Jesus is getting rid of one of the means of God's power of creation.after Jesus was made through the "logos",that does not mean that God cannot further create with the "logos" as He created Jesus all by himself without Jesus' knowledge and intervention.that is why actually christians have sorted out to believe in a trinity because of the question of who runs the show and the universe when the "little god" was allegedly crucified and who raised him up from death as christians believe?

so let me just make it simple for you:Jesus is the "word of God".but the "word of God" is not Jesus!

ramalot:

1. Before you demand an open mind from someone, you need to first exhibit the same. Hypocrisy is the word. You are on here putting up a fake front like you're open to what christians have to say, when in reality your motif is to prove yet another loop hole in their religion since you know they can not answer the question definitively.

2. I am in no way confused about my life philosophy. I was a christian all my life until fairly recently, so no, my position isnt of confusion, but borne out of a conscious decision to critique the status quo, and alas it did not add up.

That said, i have called you out on your little "mine is better than yours" game. Your only intention here is to tell christians that your religion is better than theirs period.

Oga,i offered you an advice.you dont have to go wild to insult me.and also yu dont have to turn this thread into a topic on your miserable condition.if you want to talk about your personal situation looking for attention from muslims to convince you why should embrace Islam (of all faiths you condemn),then do that in another thread.dont hijack my thread and the topic.this thread isn't about you personally.so talk about yourself elsewhere.

lagosshia


^^seriously, i dont think i even read your original question because the thread title alone shows you're just trying to bait people.

its not like anything you read here will change your mind, so why would i bother attempting a discussion.

the passage i requoted happens to be one that i particularly like for the meaning and prose, so i reposted it for better visibility- added spacing, paragraphs and things like that- since the poster didnt make it too viewable before.

that's all.

^^^^^

please dont stress yourself as you have already done.just simple answers.present me verses from the bible where Jesus is speaking like these where "jehovah" is speaking:

Exodus 20:3
"You shall have no other gods before me".

Isaiah 43:10
"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

we see many verses where God is declaring who He is and what he wants from us (to worship Him).but we dont see Jesus doing that.

just a reminder,please these are the question again and again:

1.) Show me where Jesus in the bible said we should practice a religion called Christianity.

2.) Show me where Jesus said we should either worship him or accept him as "a god" or "God".

more examples:

Holy Quran 21:92
"Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I (Allah) am your Lord, so worship Me".


Holy Quran 5:3
"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.

^^why should i answer your questions?

i think the decision is mine to make, and i already said i enjoy you as you are, so no sweat there.


IF God wants you then rest assured you cant escape his calling.

i'm not the one who will start chasing you all over the place trying to force you to see things my way.

i could do it for other people if necessary but i dont feel led to do that for you.

tpia@:

^^why should i answer your questions?

i think the decision is mine to make, and i already said i enjoy you as you are, so no sweat there.


IF God wants you then rest assured you cant escape his calling.

i'm not the one who will start chasing you all over the place trying to force you to see things my way.

i could do it for other people if necessary but i dont feel led to do that for you.

honestly,ive lost count of the number of times you posted in this thread.

We are waiting for answers!

[Quote]« #81 on: January 19, 2012, 04:30 PM »

I find the initial post on this thread quite amusing for the following reasons:
Firstly, the poster has an inflated ego and an overblown sense of self-importance; I "LagosShia" Will Embrace Christianity On Two Little Conditions!. Grin Grin Grin Quite amusing really.

Secondly, following Jesus Christ of Nazareth and accepting him as the Lord of Allah and Mohammed is actually an unconditional surrender and death. . .so the OP is quite literally chasing shadows by demanding conditions. You have nothing that is of worth or interest to Jehovah God. Keep your "two little conditions". Not interested.

Thirdly, compared to the Divine Majesty: you are ant-like. . .and you remind me of a certain ant:

The train passes by at 2 o' clock every day according to the schedule. Beside the rail track is an ant colony. There is one ant who doesn't believe that trains exist despite the regular rumblings that occur every day as the train passes by. So one day it crawls on to the rail track and begins to loudly declaim "I dare the train to pass by now". Of course no train passes by, for it is not time according to the schedule. And so the ant repeats this act from time to time until the fateful day when it crawls on to the rail track at just before 2 o' clock. As at other times, it begins: "I dare---". The train passes by at 2 o' clock every day according to the schedule. . .and splat goes the ant.

Of course you will dismiss the answer provided to you in the bible: "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter."
AND "just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment"

The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.

Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.

Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.
[Psa 50:1-6][/Quote]above is the post of an airhead in Abuja, Nigeria. rise up to the challenge if it is true that Jesus said that he is God and demands any worship from any soul. He copies Psa of king David who he called an adulterer and killer. What has that got to do with if Jesus of NT says he was God and demanded worship from anyone? You know that you are an idolater making a god out of Jesus and worshiping him.

@Aletheia; Look up. ^^^^^ thats for you.

Lagosshia and his followers who think without a valid verse answering those 2 question they will not embrace Christianity. Like tpia already said, the statement is a bait but since God doesn't want the death of sinners but that all should come to repentance i will continue.

From the little search I have done, I do not see such verses. You can quote me as saying that. But why is there not such a verse or verses?  Such verses are not required because the Israelites were already expecting a "Messiah".

From the prophecies in the old testament

1. Our famous Deut 18:18
2. Isaiah 9:6
3. Isaiah 7:14
4. Zechariah 9:9

The children of Israel were clearly anxiously awaiting a messiah and Jesus Christ did not need to "introduce" himself and say worship me. But when He was there with them, they marvelled at the works of His hands from the questions below.

The Israelites questioned Jesus:

"Who is this?" Matt 21:10
"By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?"  Matt 21:23
"Art thou HE THAT SHOULD COME? or look we for another?" Luke 7:19
"Art thou the Christ?" Luke 22:67.  
"Is not this the Christ?" John 4:29
"Whom makest thou thyself?" John 8:53.  
"How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly" John 10:24.  
"Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? John 1:22  
"And the men marveled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?" Matt 8:27.
“And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?”  Matt 21:10

From all the History of Islam we have read, the people were not expecting a prophet. Even he did not believe he was a prophet at first. His wife reassured him that his revelations were true (this is well documented). They did not know what to worship as we clearly see that this is the reason these "revelations" of the verses were necessary

Holy Quran 21:92
"Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I (Allah) am your Lord, so worship Me".
Holy Quran 5:3
"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.

Actually now looking at the passage you gave

Surah 21:92
"Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I (Allah) am your Lord, so worship Me".

Why did allah need to emphasize that the religion is one? Me thinks this is when he got rid of all the idols (300 or 360 depending on who you listen to) in the kabba and chose just one to be worshipped. Think about it some.

^^^^^^^^^^^^Proo212 is a Poo 101.

Those who are more savvy than you walked away defeated. You are still hanging around taking a lick. You will die in your ignorance, says the Bible. The Bible is talking about all of you since you cant defend Jesus and identify him saying he has proclaimed himself God Who all worship is due.

How is your telling us that Jesus is the Christ the answer pointing to God and Worship?

Christ means Anointed.
Even stone and tree and others are anointed in the Bible.

Do we take them now as God and object of worship?

@Proo212: Posted by: proo212
Insert Quote
Actually now looking at the passage you gave

Surah 21:92
[Quote]"Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I (Allah) am your Lord, so worship Me".[/Quote]Indeed The Lord God has spoken.


[Quote]Why did allah need to emphasize that the religion is one?[/Quote]It eliminates any doubt that there is more than One religion sanction by God. You will see by that verse that Judaism and Christianity are in the disbelieving column.


[Quote] Me thinks this is when he got rid of all the idols (300 or 360 depending on who you listen to) in the kabba and chose just one to be worshipped. Think about it some.[/QUote]I have thought about it even some more. My conclusion is that the idols of Makka before Islam returned to it in victory is an extension of Trinity. Now think about this some.

There is no defeat here, only lack of reasoning is defeat. Jesus did not need to say those things because the children of Israel expected a messiah like you guys often argue in the book of John 1

19And this is the testimony of John when the Jews sent priests and Levites to him from Jerusalem to ask him, Who are you? The Jews were waiting for that Messiah, Prophet that they sent the priests and levites to ask John the Baptist

    20He confessed (admitted the truth) and did not try to conceal it, but acknowledged, I am not the Christ!

    21They asked him, What then? Are you Elijah? And he said, I am not! Are you the Prophet? And he answered, No! see verse 20-21, that prophet in Deut 18:18, see that, not a prophet but The Prophet

    22Then they said to him, Who are you? Tell us, so that we may give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself? Who sent them?

    23He said, I am the voice of one crying aloud in the wilderness [the voice of one shouting in the desert], Prepare the way of the Lord [level, straighten out, the path of the Lord], as the prophet Isaiah said. Prophecy from the Old Testament (they knew He was coming)

    24The messengers had been sent from the Pharisees. Even the Pharisees were expecting the "Messiah"

    25And they asked him, Why then are you baptizing if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?

    26John answered them, I [only] baptize [g]in (with) water. Among you there stands One Whom you do not recognize and with Whom you are not acquainted and of Whom you know nothing.

    27It is He Who, coming after me, is preferred before me, the string of Whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose.

    28These things occurred in Bethany (Bethabara) across the Jordan [[h]at the Jordan crossing], where John was then baptizing.

    29The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!

    30This is He of Whom I said, After me comes a Man Who has priority over me [Who takes rank above me] because He was before me and existed before I did.

There is no defeat, nor argument here. The people were expecting a Messiah, a Prophet. He did not need to "force" people to recognise and worship Him like your god revealed to his prophet.

Mohammed was the first muslim who declared allah to be god or who got revelation. (True or false?) The people around him did not know this and refuse to believe him.

If anything the quran is struggling here. The burden is on you to prove to me that the Israelites were not expecting Christ to come and as a result He needed to make it known to them that He is to be worshipped.

christian sef.they will not answer the questions pose to them.they will dig and find questions and pose to muslims to give answers which they will argue and spam the thread and take it into another direction away from the topic.either you guys answer my two questions,concede falsehood or mind your business in shame and silence.

The question has been answered but you refuse to accept the answer. That ultimately is your issue not mine.

proo212:

There is no defeat here, only lack of reasoning is defeat. Jesus did not need to say those things because the children of Israel expected a messiah like you guys often argue in the book of John 1

There is no defeat, nor argument here. The people were expecting a Messiah, a Prophet. He did not need to "force" people to recognise and worship Him like your god revealed to his prophet.

Mohammed was the first muslim who declared allah to be god or who got revelation. (True or false?) The people around him did not know this and refuse to believe him.

If anything the quran is struggling here. The burden is on you to prove to me that the Israelites were not expecting Christ to come and as a result He needed to make it known to them that He is to be worshipped.

we shall see from the jews' mouth (i.e. from the horse's mouth) if the messiah the jews expected was supposed to be a "god" and someone they would worship as they worship God :

The Moshiach- What Jews Expect

The moshiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The moshiach is often referred to as “moshiach ben David” (moshiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15), and ushers in a time of peace on earth. But above all, he will be a human being, [size=18pt]not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.[/size]

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the moshiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person’s lifetime, then that person will be the moshiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the moshiach, then that person is not the moshiach.

http://heavenawaits./did-jesus-fulfill-the-jewish-scriptures-for-messiah/

proo212:

The question has been answered but you refuse to accept the answer. That ultimately is your issue not mine.

please tell me the answer in your own words if you are truthful.

another jewish blow to christianity:


"Did the Jews expect the messiah to be the son of god?"

Answer:
"The word 'messiah' is the anglicisation of the Hebrew 'moshiach'. The word moshiach translates to 'anointed'. The title of moshiach was given to any person who was appropriately anointed with oil as part of their initiation to their service of HaShem. We have had many moshiachim (pl) in the form of kings, priests, prophets, and judges. There is absolutely nothing supernatural about a moshiach. There is a prophecy about a future moshiach, however, he'll be a mortal man who will lead the country of Israel.

To clarify the use of the phrase "son of God" in the Tanach (Jewish Bible). This phrase was not literal, it was used to indicate that the person in question had a unique relationship with HaShem, a prime example being Moses".


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_the_Jews_expect_the_messiah_to_be_the_son_of_god#ixzz1kIkN9b5z

Hehehehe, I laugh in arabic.

You fail to see what is before you and you go and bring words from "websites". This smacks of desperation on your part. Prove to me that the Jews were not expecting a messiah and you go and bring me website.

You give me bible passages to show that the Jews were not expecting the Messiah.

proo212:

Hehehehe, I laugh in arabic.

You fail to see what is before you and you go and bring words from "websites". This smacks of desperation on your part. Prove to me that the Jews were not expecting a messiah and you go and bring me website.

You give me bible passages to show that the Jews were not expecting the Messiah.

did i make such a claim?

but christians claim Jesus is to be worshipped and "a god".

This is not a claim. Jesus is God.