What's the point in being a top shot-stopper and conceeding due to avoidable and silly gaffes?
The Tottenham game was inexcusable in my view. Even if we had a rubbish selection that day, we should have come away with three points from that game

StarBoard:

The difference between the afore-mentioned keepers and De Gea is that De Gea tends to make the same kinds of errors all the time. I have lost count of the number of times he has commited this same howler, along with clattering his defenders from behind (vs Fulham at OT and vs Spurs at WHL).
Cech in my view is the best keeper in the EPL. Cesar has saved QPR from dropping all three points on a number of occassions.
I laugh when they ranked him (De Gea) 4th best keeper in Europe and put Manuel Neuer at the top.

petr cech is the worst of the lot - it seems you don't watch chelsea enough. de gea does not tend to make the same kind of errors all the time - how about having a midfield that wouldn't expose de gea to this kinda situations all the time. in our last 4 games, we have conceded 16 shots to fulham, 20 to southampton, 25 to spurs, 13 to liverpool. in comparison to cech's team....chelsea conceded 21 shots to newcastle, 5 to reading, 14 to arsenal and only 6 to southampton.

Please. What's with the doom and gloom!!? We're stuck with players we have now, mediocre or not, its how we mold 'em together as a unit that determines how good the team is.

Come Feb13...Madrid is going down right there in the Bernabeu. I've already dubbed it - The Valentine Eve Massacre

chrisley024: D fact is dat we fans hv bcum complacent wit many average players we've like Clev. Tell me wat else he has except his wkrate wich is nt enof 2 put him in our 1st team. He lacks creativity, easily out muscled, cnt dribble n uncomfortable wit d ball, has no spark bt kips tins too simple, only runin around like a headless chicken. He's average 2 be in d 1st team cos dis is United nt some mid table team ( he can make d bench bt nt 1st team yet) n if he is d reason SAF didnt get a mid, then i hope we dnt regret it in Europe.

You said, he keeps thing too simple, to me , that simplicity is the hallmark of great midfielder check them out Kaka, Zidane, Ozil, etc. Football is not rugby.

Check the article below on Cleverly:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1487454-tom-cleverley-what-he-does-tactically-for-manchester-united#

coogar:

petr cech is the worst of the lot - it seems you don't watch chelsea enough. [/b]

Your opinion.
He was easily the best keeper in Europe last season. Spared Chelsea's blushes in the Champions League.

coogar:

de gea does not tend to make the same kind of errors all the time - [/b]

Maybe not all the time, but regularly would suffice.
The Michu equaliser at wansea, the James Perch opener at Old Trafford vs Newcastle and the Sturridge goal vs Liverpool were within three weeks.Same error-punching to the path of on-rushing strikers. He did same vs Fulham on Saturday and got away with it.
Clattering into Vidic (that led to an own-goal) vs Fulham early into the season at OT and the Spurs equaliser at WHL.Same error: poorly-timed attempts at dealing with the high ball and not communicating with the lead defender.
These mistakes tend to put a blemish on an otherwise above-decent resume as a decent shot-stopper.

coogar:
how about having a midfield that wouldn't expose de gea to this kinda situations all the time.

I thought you said our midfield was fine a while ago?

coogar:
in our last 4 games, we have conceded 16 shots to fulham, 20 to southampton, 25 to spurs, 13 to liverpool. in comparison to cech's team....chelsea conceded 21 shots to newcastle, 5 to reading, 14 to arsenal and only 6 to southampton.

Maybe as a result of our midfield.
But that has always been my point about the midfield.Defensively, our middle seems to be lacking.I have no problems about going forward. It's the defensive cover we need as we go into the final stretch of the season knowing that Carrick seems to be our only reliable midfielder of note.

RuuDie: Please. What's with the doom and gloom!!? We're stuck with players we have now, mediocre or not, its how we mold 'em together as a unit that determines how good the team is.

Come Feb13...Madrid is going down right there in the Bernabeu. I've already dubbed it - The Valentine Eve Massacre

Well, we have about a week or so to find out how good we really are.
If what I saw in the Spanish Cup semi final is anything to go by, we will be in for a torrid time at the Bernabeu.

There is no way Ddg was the only person at fault for the spurs equaliser. There was a combination of errors from rafael,Valencia,Evra,viidic and Ddg. Why would you chose to only blame Ddg for that goal?

StarBoard:
Your opinion.
He was easily the best keeper in Europe last season. Spared Chelsea's blushes in the Champions League.

begovic was better than cech last season, i would also put vorm, szczesny and joe hart above petr cech last season.
just because they won the champions league does not mean cech was the best keeper last season.....you are putting too much emphasis on a flukey victory in elite europe.

Maybe not all the time, but regularly would suffice.
The Michu equaliser at wansea, the James Perch opener at Old Trafford vs Newcastle and the Sturridge goal vs Liverpool were within three weeks.Same error-punching to the path of on-rushing strikers. He did same vs Fulham on Saturday and got away with it.
Clattering into Vidic (that led to an own-goal) vs Fulham early into the season at OT and the Spurs equaliser at WHL.Same error: poorly-timed attempts at dealing with the high ball and not communicating with the lead defender.
These mistakes tend to put a blemish on an otherwise above-decent resume as a decent shot-stopper.

in all the errors highlighted here, only the james perch perch goal was a glaring mistake.....he literally pushed that towards perch and the shot wasn't really hot. i blame him 100% for that. the michu equaliser wasn't his fault, it was from a close range....the first priority was saving the shot, where the ball falls depends on mother-nature.....same as the sturridge goal! the clattering into vidic against fulham(old trafford) and spurs(white hart lane) was vidic's fault! he should be trusting his goalie to come out and give the ball a decent punch. vidic got in de gea's way on both occasions. if de gea had stayed in goal and vidic got beaten to the ball by a spurs player to score, we would still be here criticizing why he didn't come out to claim the ball.

I thought you said our midfield was fine a while ago?

our midfield is excellent in my own opinion - who fergie selects to start the game is another matter entirely. how many games has anderson, cleverley and carrick started together this season? does fergie choose the right midfield everytime? those are the issues. barcelona have the best midfield in europe but if their gaffer decides to put busquets, xavi on the bench and play some old gooks, would the midfield not suffer like ours? of course it would.

Maybe as a result of our midfield.
But that has always been my point about the midfield.Defensively, our middle seems to be lacking.I have no problems about going forward. It's the defensive cover we need as we go into the final stretch of the season knowing that Carrick seems to be our only reliable midfielder of note.

against big teams, carrick playing behind anderson and cleverley is our best formation....however, fergie always manages to put scholes in there or play phil jones and disrupt the chemistry. what does phil jones know about bossing the midfield. why is it that united is the only team in europe with no settled midfield or even defence? we blame de gea but how many defence combinations have we played this season for him to form a perfect understanding. valencia? carrick? jones? smalling? rio? vidic? rafael? evra? buttner? those 2 rookies in the academy and so on and so forth - would that help a young goalie who cannot even speak english?

I think Cech is the best in the league but last season it was hart.

Mr_TA: I think Cech is the best in the league but last season it was hart.

i would like to see stats backing this up.

coogar:

begovic was better than cech last season, i would also put vorm, szczesny and joe hart above petr cech last season.
just because they won the champions league does not mean cech was the best keeper last season.....you are putting too much emphasis on a flukey victory in elite europe.

Joe Hart keeps getting caught out by long balls.So in my view he's over-rated.He's had a few decent games (vs Dortmund at the Etihad and Real at the Bernabeu)but other than that, I'm sure he really has had the covering of Kompany and Lescott to shield him.
Begovic is an outstanding keeper, but I think we all are entitled to our opinions.He's nowhere near the level of Cech in my view.
Cech made some absolutely insane saves last season and has basically kept Chelsea afloat even in their crises ridden season.
For me he is ahead of other keepers in the EPL.Vorm is decent as well.
Flukey doesn't matter.Cech put in work in getting that victory,no matter how flukey.You cannot deny that.

coogar:

in all the errors highlighted here, only the james perch perch goal was a glaring mistake.....he literally pushed that towards perch and the shot wasn't really hot. i blame him 100% for that. the michu equaliser wasn't his fault, it was from a close range....the first priority was saving the shot, where the ball falls depends on mother-nature.....same as the sturridge goal! the clattering into vidic against fulham(old trafford) and spurs(white hart lane) was vidic's fault! he should be trusting his goalie to come out and give the ball a decent punch. vidic got in de gea's way on both occasions. if de gea had stayed in goal and vidic got beaten to the ball by a spurs player to score, we would still be here criticizing why he didn't come out to claim the ball.

I think you're stretching it.
De Gea was at fault for those three goals. Gerrard's shot was from outside the vital area.That led to Sturridge equalising.

In the games he clattered into Vidic, De Gea coulda made a shout to claim thiose balls. Vidic had every right to contest those balls as he normally does giving that he is expected to win these types of balls. Plus De Gea has a history of being unable to deal with those high balls into the area.I can't blame Vidic for not trusting De Gea in dealing with those balls.
You're the first person I hear saying Vidic got in De Gea's way.Looking at the evidence, I'm not sure I agree with that assessment.

coogar:

against big teams, carrick playing behind anderson and cleverley is our best formation....however, fergie always manages to put scholes in there or play phil jones and disrupt the chemistry. what does phil jones know about bossing the midfield. why is it that united is the only team in europe with no settled midfield or even defence? we blame de gea but how many defence combinations have we played this season for him to form a perfect understanding. valencia? carrick? jones? smalling? rio? vidic? rafael? evra? buttner? those 2 rookies in the academy and so on and so forth - would that help a young goalie who cannot even speak english?

Anderson is still trying to get through 90 minutes succesfully and we're depending on him to provide steel in the middle?I laugh in Twii and Ashanti.
Cleverly that fits the bill of runing around like a headless chicken is whom you;re touting.
Abeg you and I know that if anything happens to Carrick, we're doomed.
I'm sure De Gea's ability won't improve by learning English. If he's still learning the language after a year and a half in England, then he has a problem for real.

coogar:

our midfield is excellent in my own opinion - who fergie selects to start the game is another matter entirely. how many games has anderson, cleverley and carrick started together this season? does fergie choose the right midfield everytime? those are the issues. barcelona have the best midfield in europe but if their gaffer decides to put busquets, xavi on the bench and play some old gooks, would the midfield not suffer like ours? of course it would.

Ironic that selection would cause an otherwise excellent midfield to become rubbish.

But to an extent I agree that selection is the bane.

I saw the Cissoko guy for Newcastle and almost wet my pants in excitement at the way he ate up Ramirez, Lampard, Mata and Oscar almost single-handedly.
Which beast in the middle do we have in our ranks?

StarBoard:

The difference between the afore-mentioned keepers and De Gea is that De Gea tends to make the same kinds of errors all the time. I have lost count of the number of times he has commited this same howler, along with clattering his defenders from behind (vs Fulham at OT and vs Spurs at WHL).
Cech in my view is the best keeper in the EPL. Cesar has saved QPR from dropping all three points on a number of occassions.
I laugh when they ranked him (De Gea) 4th best keeper in Europe and put Manuel Neuer at the top.

In highlighting DDG's errors or presumed errors as the case may be, let's also acknowledge the amount of point blank saves he has had in games that would have been lost or drawn if he did not stop those shots.

These are shots that no one would even blame him if they had gone in.

I agree that his regular push of the balls into the part of on coming opposing striker is worrisome, but I still give thumps up.

StarBoard:
Joe Hart keeps getting caught out by long balls.So in my view he's over-rated.He's had a few decent games (vs Dortmund at the Etihad and Real at the Bernabeu)but other than that, I'm sure he really has had the covering of Kompany and Lescott to shield him.
Begovic is an outstanding keeper, but I think we all are entitled to our opinions.He's nowhere near the level of Cech in my view.
Cech made some absolutely insane saves last season and has basically kept Chelsea afloat even in their crises ridden season.
For me he is ahead of other keepers in the EPL.Vorm is decent as well.
Flukey doesn't matter.Cech put in work in getting that victory,no matter how flukey.You cannot deny that.

petr cech was shyte last season in the league - in the champions league, chelsea parking the bus was one of the main reasons cech wasn't found out. petr cech? have you forgotten chelsea 3-5 arsenal? did you see van persie's 3rd goal on the day that cech pushed into his own net?

I think you're stretching it.
De Gea was at fault for those three goals. Gerrard's shot was from outside the vital area.That led to Sturridge equalising.

i reiterate, that was a finger-tip save......it cannot be directed out of play. that de gea even got to the ball is a testament to his cat reflexes and agility. i would post the gif in a moment!

In the games he clattered into Vidic, De Gea coulda made a shout to claim thiose balls. Vidic had every right to contest those balls as he normally does giving that he is expected to win these types of balls. Plus De Gea has a history of being unable to deal with those high balls into the area.I can't blame Vidic for not trusting De Gea in dealing with those balls. You're the first person I hear saying Vidic got in De Gea's way.Looking at the evidence, I'm not sure I agree with that assessment.

the fulham one @ old trafford was vidic's fault - the look de gea gave him said it all after the goal. vidic should trust his goalie to claim the ball in n around the 6 yards. the tottenham one was also vida's fault.......

Anderson is still trying to get through 90 minutes succesfully and we're depending on him to provide steel in the middle?I laugh in Twii and Ashanti.
Cleverly that fits the bill of runing around like a headless chicken is whom you;re touting.
Abeg you and I know that if anything happens to Carrick, we're doomed.
I'm sure De Gea's ability won't improve by learning English. If he's still learning the language after a year and a half in England, then he has a problem for real.

cleverley runs like a headless chicken? you won't find a better english midfielder in the country at the moment. he's a player fergie has largely misused!

Ironic that selection would cause an otherwise excellent midfield to become rubbish.
But to an extent I agree that selection is the bane.

selection is our problem - selection determines which tactics and some of our tactics this season have been rubbish. i would never understand jones in the midfield and when fergie took cleverley off, anderson's energy and his use of the ball would have pulverised spurs in the last 10-15 mins.

I saw the Cissoko guy for Newcastle and almost wet my pants in excitement at the way he ate up Ramirez, Lampard, Mata and Oscar almost single-handedly.
Which beast in the middle do we have in our ranks?

you don't need beasts to win games - with the right passes, smart interceptions and pressing, you would beat up any beast! our triumvirate in every game should be anderson + cleverley + carrick........especially in the big games or tough away fixtures!

Reina said:

“He arrived younger than me to the Premier [League], but the adjustment period is normal. I think it has been at a high level, but here the press criticizes some players and widened somewhat took it with him. He has received unjust criticism, disproportionate.”

When even an opposition goalie (who has made 3 times the "errors" DDG has in the last 2 seasons) can see the ridiculousness of the press and some fans DDG criticism, you know this whole situation is a joke.

coded guy:

In highlighting DDG's errors or presumed errors as the case may be, let's also acknowledge the amount of point blank saves he has had in games that would have been lost or drawn if he did not stop those shots.

These are shots that no one would even blame him if they had gone in.

I agree that his regular push of the balls into the part of on coming opposing striker is worrisome, but I still give thumps up.

I still think it makes almost no point to be an outstanding shot-stopper whilst having to make these little errors.
That's where I'm going.
We're not complaiing as much because when those errors were made, we haven't lost.
I have said he is a good-excellent shot stopper in the past. The chink in his armor has to do with those errors. He can be the best keeper United ever had if he eliminates those errors.

montelik:

When even an opposition goalie (who has made 3 times the "errors" DDG has in the last 2 seasons) can see the ridiculousness of the press and some fans DDG criticism, you know this whole situation is a joke.

I wouldn't take Pepe Reina's views as noteworthy given that he conceded a howler vs City last Sunday.
Apparently this is just to jump on the bandwagon and recieve sympathy.
You need to see the tongue-lashing he is getting on Liverpool TV for that Aguero goal.

coogar:

petr cech was shyte last season in the league - in the champions league, chelsea parking the bus was one of the main reasons cech wasn't found out. petr cech? have you forgotten chelsea 3-5 arsenal? did you see van persie's 3rd goal on the day that cech pushed into his own net?

And Petr Cech was UEFA's goalie of the season, yet he was shyte. Ok. No complaints.
That van Persie goal cannot be Cech's fault. The force on that shot was going to make it unstoppable.

coogar:
i reiterate, that was a finger-tip save......it cannot be directed out of play. that de gea even got to the ball is a testament to his cat reflexes and agility. i would post the gif in a moment!

And I'm not arguing with that fact.
What grates me is that he parried the ball into Ruiz's path later in the game, and had Ruiz not been off-balance, the result may have been different.

coogar:

the fulham one @ old trafford was vidic's fault - the look de gea gave him said it all after the goal. vidic should trust his goalie to claim the ball in n around the 6 yards. the tottenham one was also vida's fault.......

Vidic can't trust a goalie who has proven to be weak in the high-ball situation.After the look, couldn't he remonstrate to show his displeasure?
The Tottenham one was NEVER Vidic's fault. Vidic had taken off to contest the ball and would have cleared it to touch until De Gea decided to sandwich him and Caulker only to deliver a weak punch out to Lennon.

coogar:
cleverley runs like a headless chicken? you won't find a better english midfielder in the country at the moment. he's a player fergie has largely misused!

Misused?I don't understand.
Please explain to the unenlightened like me.
Kindly bring stats to back up the claim that he is the best midfielder in England.

coogar:

selection is our problem - selection determines which tactics and some of our tactics this season have been rubbish. i would never understand jones in the midfield and when fergie took cleverley off, anderson's energy and his use of the ball would have pulverised spurs in the last 10-15 mins.

I agree that the Spurs game may have had the outcome it did because of selection.

coogar:

you don't need beasts to win games - with the right passes, smart interceptions and pressing, you would beat up any beast! our triumvirate in every game should be anderson + cleverley + carrick........especially in the big games or tough away fixtures!

Maybe.
However Anderson still has fitness issues.I cannot vouch for him to last a full 90 mins.

Enough of this.
How do we engage Real at the Bernabeu?

Vs Real, we go 433. And pray the players are on form. I would go. Ddg,rafa,rio,Vidic,Evra,Anderson,Carrick,cleverly,nani,Rooney,rvp. Fitness permitting. Valencia for nani later in the game and giggs for Anderson after 60mins.

I'm more worried about Everton this weekend at the moment but Im glad it seems fellaini will be missing.

If Carrick isn't going to start un the bernabeu, then peeps like coogar and starboard berra have a well-equipped ambulance close by cuz giggsy go surely start

But on the real, I am more concerned with what we'll throw at 'em offensively...i'd love to see us line out 4-4-2.
Rooney out on the left, RvP and hernandez in attack. Every other position, I leave to the gaffer!

StarBoard:
And Petr Cech was UEFA's goalie of the season, yet he was shyte. Ok. No complaints.
That van Persie goal cannot be Cech's fault. The force on that shot was going to make it unstoppable.

his team won the champions league - that's pretty much given

And I'm not arguing with that fact.
What grates me is that he parried the ball into Ruiz's path later in the game, and had Ruiz not been off-balance, the result may have been different.

we concede too many shots as a team - the law of average says that situation would come up in every game. block the leak and de gea would be just fine. in 08/09 season, there were about a dozen games that van der sar did not have a save to make. it's not like we bossed possession in those games but the midfield and the defence were so good our opposition didn't even have the opportunity to take shots on our goal!

Vidic can't trust a goalie who has proven to be weak in the high-ball situation.After the look, couldn't he remonstrate to show his displeasure?
The Tottenham one was NEVER Vidic's fault. Vidic had taken off to contest the ball and would have cleared it to touch until De Gea decided to sandwich him and Caulker only to deliver a weak punch out to Lennon.

then vidic should sort himself - i think his long absence from the team since de gea joined us is the reason for this lack of chemistry between the two. this particular error has not happened with the other defenders who have played more games with de gea than vidic. in that wise, vidic is the black sheep!

Misused?I don't understand.
Please explain to the unenlightened like me.
Kindly bring stats to back up the claim that he is the best midfielder in England.

i did not say clevz is the best midfielder in the country - i said he's the best english midfielder.

Maybe.
However Anderson still has fitness issues.I cannot vouch for him to last a full 90 mins.

play him for 70-75 mins, bring scholes/giggs on to calm the game down!

Enough of this.
How do we engage Real at the Bernabeu?

the team picks itself - jones has copped shingles now which puts paid to him starting for us in the midfield. carrick is a worry and if he cannot be fit enough for the first leg, cleverson with kagawa in front of them should be deployed. rooney on the left, van persie in the centre and luiz nani on the right.

Pretty obvious Wilshere is better than Cleverley. In fact so is Gerrard and Carrick.

Mr_TA: Pretty obvious Wilshere is better than Cleverley. In fact so is Gerrard and Carrick.

how is it pretty obvious? any empirical evidence?

Watch dia performances on d pitch. Hw can sum1 tell me dat Clev is d best english midfielder wen is clear dat Wilshere is better. Atleast both played 2geda yestade.

chrisley024: Watch dia performances on d pitch. Hw can sum1 tell me dat Clev is d best english midfielder wen is clear dat Wilshere is better. Atleast both played 2geda yestade.

and wat happened 2 england's midfield after ez (clev) substitution

adebayo201: and wat happened 2 england's midfield after ez (clev) substitution

it collapsed now - who can keep the ball in that english midfield? wilshere kept losing the ball even though i agree he played well and he was bursting forward. cleverley is a facilitator - keeping things simple whilst retaining possession. i have never seen england keep possession the way they played against brazil last night - and that's brazil's first team! gimme tom cleverley any day - he understands how football should be played. pass the ball and make yourself available to receive it.

http://blog.squawka.com/2013/02/07/the-top-5-best-passers-in-the-final-third-in-the-premier-league-inc-manchester-united-arsenal-spurs-players/

Lets show Tom C some love.

montelik: http://blog.squawka.com/2013/02/07/the-top-5-best-passers-in-the-final-third-in-the-premier-league-inc-manchester-united-arsenal-spurs-players/

Lets show Tom C some love.

a lot of people can never see what cleverley does - they are only interested in raw stats and if he's not scoring/assisting then the general consensus is - he must be useless. starboard said cleverley runs around like a headless chicken.....can you imagine? a player using space and mobility to knit the play is a headless chicken?

I dont know why people think football is gra gra...People that do the basic, simple, easy stuffs don't get appreciated.
Only thing Wilshere has on Clev is his tenacity and his grafting attitude, he is a battler and I'll give him that.
That said they are two totally different players and their combo can be said to be a perfect partner due to their roles.
In a midfield, you need a grafter and someone that can keep their cool and do the simple things e.g (Keane+Scholes), (Fletcher+Carrick) etc.

Clev just needs to be a bit selfish a little so he can add more goals to his game, Wilshere doesn't score too many goals either.
Wilshere gets a lot of plaudits because he is noticed more on the pitch getting stuck in and all but it doesn't make Clev any less of a player cos he is barely noticed.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he is the best English midfielder though, but if you are looking to play possession, one-two pass and move football, Clev is your man. He keeps it simple.


"Football is simple. But the hardest thing is to play football in a simple way" - Johan Cruyff

coogar:

it collapsed now - who can keep the ball in that english midfield? wilshere kept losing the ball even though i agree he played well and he was bursting forward. cleverley is a facilitator - keeping things simple whilst retaining possession. i have never seen england keep possession the way they played against brazil last night - and that's brazil's first team! gimme tom cleverley any day - he understands how football should be played. pass the ball and make yourself available to receive it.

Just like Seedorf

U r right sha! Bt we already hv Carrick dat kips tins simple n tickin in d mid. Playin both brings no penetration n forces Rooney n even VP 2 move 2 d mid cos of lack of service. Clev wil hardly do well in our 442 unless wen Rooney moves 2 d mid, so he'll be ok in a 3-man mid. In our 2-man mid, we nid sum1 dat can make runs n go pass players 2 connect wit our forwards. Ofcus we see d difference wen Ando plays jus dat he lacks discipline.

chrisley024: U r right sha! Bt we already hv Carrick dat kips tins simple n tickin in d mid. Playin both brings no penetration n forces Rooney n even VP 2 move 2 d mid cos of lack of service. Clev wil hardly do well in our 442 unless wen Rooney moves 2 d mid, so he'll be ok in a 3-man mid. In our 2-man mid, we nid sum1 dat can make runs n go pass players 2 connect wit our forwards. Ofcus we see d difference wen Ando plays jus dat he lacks discipline.

That's why the combination of Carrick-Clev-Ando is our best bet in a 3 man midfield.
We still play similar to that though with Rooney playing at the top of the triangle behind RvP even though the formation might come across as 4-4-2

smeone sed cleverly is d best english midfielder. lwkmd oooo. Pls... I'd like to knw d exact quality cleverly has ooo. 'his ability to keep it simple' abi?? Like zidane and co, As smeone even suggested. Wot an insult to zidane!!! A zidane on crutches shdnt even b mentioned in d same breath with cleverly. As utd fans, d only thing we can do, is to thank God for carrick's form dis season, and ofcourse, d guys upfront!! Cleverly's football lacks pattern, tenacity, intelligence, creativity, etc. Dis is just smeone dt iz in d team, BECAUSE ODA PLYRS HAVE BEEN PLAYING SO WELL,THEREBY COVERING UP FOR HIS DEFICIENCIES; AND OFCOURSE; MOST MANAGERS WLDNT WANT TO CHANGE A WINNING TEAM. Again, we shudnt 4get dt d only competition cleverly has, na scholes and anderson. Anderson has been in and out due to injuries, and we all knw wsup wif scholes. As for d issue of David de 'automatic' GEAR, to me oo, na fergie's fault. I believe he shud hav bought de gea DURING VDS's LAST SEASON AT UTD, so dt d boy's transition and adaptation process wld b faster and smoother. With all fergie's experience as a manager, he shud knw dt u cant just buy a 19 yr old gk, for a huge sum of 18m, coming frm anoda country wit a different culture, to replace a gk legend like VDS just like dt. D pressure on d boi wld just b too much for him to handle. Ts just like messi retiring today, and barca buying neymar, and giving him d no 10 shirt at barca. I thank God fergie has even stop dt his yeye rotation policy, cos d last time we did it wit howard and caroll, we came 3rd in d league. Bottom line is dt, i think we shud just continue to pray for, and encourage dis young man. I personally do so on his facebook page. Madrid ooooo. *shivers*. I think fergie just has to start valencia, or move rooney to d right, cos rafael wld need some cover against ronaldo. E go pain me gaan if ronaldo cause our ouster coz i can imagine d headlines dt wld b in d papers. Things like; RONALDO BITES OF D FINGERS DT ONCE FED HIM! RONALDO SHOWS Y HE'S STILL NIDED AT OT.*sadface*

[quote author=chamotex]I dont know why people think football is gra gra...People that do the basic, simple, easy stuffs don't get appreciated.
Only thing Wilshere has on Clev is his tenacity and his grafting attitude, he is a battler and I'll give him that.
That said they are two totally different players and their combo can be said to be a perfect partner due to their roles.
In a midfield, you need a grafter and someone that can keep their cool and do the simple things e.g (Keane+Scholes), (Fletcher+Carrick) etc.

Clev just needs to be a bit selfish a little so he can add more goals to his game, Wilshere doesn't score too many goals either.
Wilshere gets a lot of plaudits because he is noticed more on the pitch getting stuck in and all but it doesn't make Clev any less of a player cos he is barely noticed.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he is the best English midfielder though, but if you are looking to play possession, one-two pass and move football, Clev is your man. He keeps it simple.


"Football is simple. But the hardest thing is to play football in a simple way" - Johan Cruyff[quote


The problem with many people is that when a midfielder can not take on 2 or 3 people and dribble them at the same time or can commit ard tackle, hour will be seen as not good enough, wilshere is good agreed, But that doesn't make cleverley a lesser player. The stat below says it all.

www.eplindex.com/25709/tom-cleverley-jack-wilshere-stats-comparison.html

dademola: smeone sed cleverly is d best english midfielder. lwkmd oooo. Pls... I'd like to knw d exact quality cleverly has ooo. 'his ability to keep it simple' abi?? Like zidane and co, As smeone even suggested. Wot an insult to zidane!!! A zidane on crutches shdnt even b mentioned in d same breath with cleverly. As utd fans, d only thing we can do, is to thank God for carrick's form dis season, and ofcourse, d guys upfront!! Cleverly's football lacks pattern, tenacity, intelligence, creativity, etc. Dis is just smeone dt iz in d team, BECAUSE ODA PLYRS HAVE BEEN PLAYING SO WELL,THEREBY COVERING UP FOR HIS DEFICIENCIES; AND OFCOURSE; MOST MANAGERS WLDNT WANT TO CHANGE A WINNING TEAM. Again, we shudnt 4get dt d only competition cleverly has, na scholes and anderson. Anderson has been in and out due to injuries, and we all knw wsup wif scholes. As for d issue of David de 'automatic' GEAR, to me oo, na fergie's fault. I believe he shud hav bought de gea DURING VDS's LAST SEASON AT UTD, so dt d boy's transition and adaptation process wld b faster and smoother. With all fergie's experience as a manager, he shud knw dt u cant just buy a 19 yr old gk, for a huge sum of 18m, coming frm anoda country wit a different culture, to replace a gk legend like VDS just like dt. D pressure on d boi wld just b too much for him to handle. Ts just like messi retiring today, and barca buying neymar, and giving him d no 10 shirt at barca. I thank God fergie has even stop dt his yeye rotation policy, cos d last time we did it wit howard and caroll, we came 3rd in d league. Bottom line is dt, i think we shud just continue to pray for, and encourage dis young man. I personally do so on his facebook page. Madrid ooooo. *shivers*. I think fergie just has to start valencia, or move rooney to d right, cos rafael wld need some cover against ronaldo. E go pain me gaan if ronaldo cause our ouster coz i can imagine d headlines dt wld b in d papers. Things like; RONALDO BITES OF D FINGERS DT ONCE FED HIM! RONALDO SHOWS Y HE'S STILL NIDED AT OT.*sadface*

I think you need to watch Cleverly game very well, then, you will understand the quality of the boy. So far, we won all games Cleverly played except our last group game in champion league. You can critisize him when his playing below per but do not belittle the ability of the boy. Please note this is united forum we don't condemn our players. Thanks