Another page of explanation. Na you dey work. Shey I told you that the desperation to be proven right is impeding your ability to comprehend simple things. In 2008 when you were arguing, it was 4 years since Drogba joined Chelsea. Enough time to have seen what Drogba brought in his first 2 years. In 2008, you stated,

Ibime:
[b]What rubbish! So Drogba is better than Torres? Are Kalou, Malouda and Joe Cole world beaters? How much better than Riera and Babel are they?
[/b]

In 2012, you stated,

DD in his first two seasons brought more to the table than Torres could ever bring even if he scores 30 goals.

It's very surprising that 4 seasons after Drogba turned up, you felt he was not as good as Torres. 8 seasons after, you think he brought more "in his first 2 seasons" than Torres will ever bring. Unless you bring up another full page of how 4 is less than 2, I don't see what you are arguing about. A long epistle does not give your garbage any credence.


The premise of my argument remains the same. You will say what you want in this moment to prove a point. When history catches up with you, you'll just say "I now love him". Avoid the nitpicking with Drogba's touch and all, my argument is still valid.

Why not ask Debo about our argument in 2009 that " DD stopped running" when I said DD brought a lot in his first two seasons by running like a mad dog.

That one na 2012 argument? Abeg!


DD holds the ball up and allows the midfield to play

and

DD's link up and movement is poor. Any good build up ends at Drogbas feet

are not contradictory.

That statement applies to every single target man in World Football, whether Dzeko who holds up play at Wolfsburg and has poor linkup and movement in Citeh's slick passing system, or Befetimbi Gomis of Lyon, or Jonahan Walters of Stoke or Kevin Davies of Bolton or Demba Ba of Newcastle.


Take any big target man who holds up play for their midfield and put them in tiki-taka system, and the same two statements apply to all of them.

Stop scraping the barrel.



Summary:


Some years ago, Nateevs and Ibime were in agreement that Chelsea should play a slick passing system and DD does not fit into that.

Chelsea tried to play such system with few managers and failed.

Chelsea signed an out-of-form striker called Torres who could probably play better in possession system.

The dud stayed out of form for two years.

Nateevs held onto his sucicidal ideals, ready to sacrifice the success of his team for dud.

Ibime pointed out from the moment Torres was signed that DD brings more to the team and he hasnt got patience for dud to find his form, besides, with the players Chelsea have, DD is the best bet.

Nateevs is adamant that Torres non-existent shekpe-keeping is best for the team and all the players are crap thats why dud cant do it.

This doesnt matter to Ibime as any striker can score goals if his teammates are good.

Chelsea win the ultimate prize with DD as spearhead using the attributes that DD provides. . . in the failure of dud to produce anything.

Nateevs is angry that Chelsea have found success outside of the ideals that he holds.

Nateevs is pissed off that Ibime has no patience for ideals and prefers success through pragmatism.

Nateevs is pissed that his former partner-in-crime pointed out obvious truths about both striker's attributes, and did not stick to ideals even if they lead to failure.

Nateevs starts quoting posts from years ago to prove that Ibime is contradictory.

Much ado about nothing, afterall Ibime did not start making these claims after the UCL victory. Ibime has been weighing favourably on DD's side since Jan 2011, knowing that Torres is not the same player he was.

The case is closed, as success speaks louder than words.

End of story!

You are desperately trying to draw me out of this to string the argument on another course. I will not oblige.
I will choose a different day for that argument.


In 2008, you stated,


Ibime:

What rubbish! So Drogba is better than Torres? . Are Kalou, Malouda and Joe Cole world beaters? How much better than Riera and Babel are they?

In 2012, you stated,

DD in his first two seasons brought more to the table than Torres could ever bring even if he scores 30 goals.

^^^ You are the one changing the argument. You have gone from claiming that I said DD has good touch to another off-tangent.

The statement I made there was a comparison of Lampard and Gerrard and trying to show that the players at Liverpools disposal are as good as Chelseas just like I compare Bale, Lennon, VDV to Chelsea players when we argue about Modric.

That comparison has no tactical dimension. Its just comparing players based on their output.

DD of 15 goals and Torres of 30 goals is completely based on tactical dimension for common sense reason:

Torres at the moment is only a recipient of other peoples good work. Even if he scores 30, its by sacrificing other avenues we profit from, such as playing strictly to counterattack system and through-passes. DD if scoring 15 goals still allows his teammates to flourish whether by physically manhandling defences, knockdowns from crosses or by "holding the ball up and allowing the midfield to play"


But. . . .

You cannot dodge the reason you started this debate.

I believe that holding the ball up for the midfield to join up is something that big target men like DD, Gomez, Gomis, Demba Ba and Jonathan Walters do all the time.

Having good link up and movement upfront is something that the likes of Anelka, Tevez, Rooney, Aguero, Messi do well.

nateevs: You criticise Torres every minute for not being able to play with his back to goal.

I take this to mean you agree that DD can play with his back to goal.

You have asked enough questions. Here's one you MUST answer:


Do you agree that

(a.) DD holds the ball up?

(b.) allows the midfield to play

(c.) Holds up the ball and allows the midfield to play


If you cannot answer this question, get off ma nuts cos your answer to this question would prove that you have engaged in a long, desperate and unnecessary argument whilst actually agreeing with my views all this while.

(a.) DD holds the ball up?


Yes he can. He does this better than most target men of his generation. However. . .

(b.) allows the midfield to play


No. Because even though he's fantastic at bringing down the ball with his chest, you never quite know what DD turns up. That's why he completes the least amount of passes in the Chelsea team behind Ramires. . If you argue that his presence creates fear and uncertainty, which allows the midfield to penetrate through other channels, I quite agree. However through touch, movement and passes, he doesn't. Hence my argument.


(c.) Holds up the ball and allows the midfield to play

As explained above, NO. DD is/wasn't a passing player. If he stopped a 40 yard long ball with his chest, he still had to pass it with his feet. Adn with his feet, he breaks down play. So whether, tiki taka or long ball, the fact that DD had to make passes with feet hindered play. This is why those two sentences of yours are perfectly contradictory.

DD is different from a target man of Mario, Ibra who can actually pass the ball.

Its good you have answered the question. This proves that you also agree with me that:


DD holds the ball up and allows the midfield to play

and also that:


DD's link up and movement is poor. Any good build up ends at Drogbas feet


So after all this wasted time trawling through my old posts, just to agree with me?


It doesnt matter that his passing is poor. Infact, I posted the passing stats just some months ago.

He allows the midfield to play was a carefully constructed statement so there is no ambiguity that he plays with the midfield with the quick link-ups associated with the likes of Tevez and Messi.

He is able to hold the ball in the areas of the pitch where the ball needs to be, and not have the midfielders ping-ponging up and down.

You claim he doesnt allow the midfield to play cos his passing is poor, but 70% of the time the ball is played toward DD, its not when hes in space so his passing doesnt matter. Wheter in the air or even on the ground, if the ball is fired into DD, a defender is challenging for the ball with him, and he doesnt need a to pass to bring the midfield into play, simply knock it down or hold the defender back and flick it to his midfield. . . he will hold it up for the midfield to catch up with him. There is NO STATEMENT IVE MADE OUTSIDE THIS PARAMETER.

"Allowing the midfield to play" is constructed in a way that yes, he allows the midfield to play, not that he plays with the midfield or does the link-ups and movement with them.

According to talking tactics:

anytime you see a 4-5-1 struggle in the attack, it is usually because of a lack of support. This support can come in one of two ways. The first is from a striker’s holdup play. This is the more classic version of a lone striker, a Brian Ching type player who can play with his back to goal. A striker who is comfortable with his back to goal can hold the ball up and give his midfielders time to transition to the attack


Allowing his midfielders to transition into attack allows the midfield to play hence I made the clear distinction of saying that Torres has the midfield running up and down like a ping pong everytime he loses the ball


So once again, you have engaged in a long, fruitless, stoopid, desperate and pedantic argument even when you agree with my views. Its not a surprise as you usually argue such non-discussions with Debo, Dayo and myself.

Hehehe. Ibime has gone from defending his point of view to lying. Now it's about DD "allowing midfield to play" not "playing with midfield". Bearing in mind that his argument was that when Torres gets the ball, he's almost always bullied off it cos he's "weak", he loses the ball and makes mid-fielders run about, he made an argument for Drogba "in a contrasting scope" . .

You gripe over Torres losing the ball constantly and you said this,

(a.) His price
(b.) The fact he is not tactically robust and can only play one way (through ball) and doesnt help his midfielders game
(c.) The sheer amount of times he loses the ball.

To contrast this view, you said this about Drogba.

There is no midfielder who didnt profit from DD's hold-up play, whether to set them up or hold the ball up and give them a breather.

How can DD set them up when according to you,

Allowing the midfield to play" is constructed in a way that yes, he allows the midfield to play, not that he plays with the midfield or does the link-ups and movement with them.

I am bored of this crap Ibime. You see what I told you about saying what you have to for the moment just to make a point. It happened, 2008, 2010 and it's till happening now. The purpose of my argument is still on course. You are jumping from pillar to post.

Yet another display of pedantic idiocy by Nateevs.

I said maybe 70% of balls to DD are played to DD with defenders on his back so his allowing the midfield to play has little to do with his passing.

The eediot is now asking me how "he sets the midfield up".

DD has copped 70 assists in 8 years. . . please go and find out how he did it, and stop asking me nonsense questions, you jobless eediot. . . The eediot is now asking me how he set people up "since I said my allowing the midfield to play was talking about holding up not that he plays with the midfield or does the link ups and movements with them".

You also agree that DD is not good at the link ups, so please tell me how DD set up his 70 assists.

Are you questioning me or yourself?

What a foooorkiiiiing eeedioooot!!!

The dude now wants me to tell him that "There is no midfielder who didnt profit from DD's hold-up play, whether to set them up. . ." obviously means that the set-up is usually a result of his hold up play rather than fast interlinking of passes. . . after all no midfielder who didnt profit from DD's hold-up play, whether to set them up.

I have already attributed the setting up to the hold up play in the structure of the sentence, but as usual this eeediot wants me to spend my time analysing everyword in a sentence due to his lack of comprehension as he does with Debo.

Maybe next month, Nateevs will tell us that I said DD only sets up through hold-up play next time he sees me typing something about DD's good crossing for team-mates. Thats the nature of Nateevs senseless discussions. I am arguing with a nincompoop.

Do they pay this guy to analyse sentences and argue nonsense about them?

Bottom line is DD holds the ball up, which allows midfielders to transition, but DD is not good at quick link ups, one-twos and neat intrepassing. Nateevs agrees with this, yet arguing like an eediot over semantics all day.

I would never cross words with this pedantic nincompoop again.

Dude. There's no contradiction of yours I agreed with. You asked questions and I provided answers to them. I told you that it is impossible to claim that Drogba "allows the midfield to play" and at the same claim that "he has a poor touch, poor movement and link up play". My disagreement is perfectly highlighted here.

nateevs: (a.) DD holds the ball up?


Yes he can. He does this better than most target men of his generation. However. . .

(b.) allows the midfield to play


No. Because even though he's fantastic at bringing down the ball with his chest, you never quite know what DD turns up. That's why he completes the least amount of passes in the Chelsea team behind Ramires. . If you argue that his presence creates fear and uncertainty, which allows the midfield to penetrate through other channels, I quite agree. However through touch, movement and passes, he doesn't. Hence my argument.


(c.) Holds up the ball and allows the midfield to play

As explained above, NO. DD is/wasn't a passing player. If he stopped a 40 yard long ball with his chest, he still had to pass it with his feet. Adn with his feet, he breaks down play. So whether, tiki taka or long ball, the fact that DD had to make passes with feet hindered play. This is why those two sentences of yours are perfectly contradictory.

DD is different from a target man of Mario, Ibra who can actually pass the ball.

My answers from the above were a resounding "NO" to the "allowing midifield to play" part because in my view he doesn't. There and there I totally disagree with your contradiction. Stop lying that I accepted it. That contradiction still holds. Except in a desperate attempt to save your face and diffuse what seems like a glaring contradiction, you began claiming that there is a method in your first statement - "allows midfield to play".

You began your rambles by trying to establish a difference between "allowing midfield to play" and "playing with the midfield" claiming somehow that he does the former and not the latter. How can he? Infact, how can the midifleld play in the first place if he has not at least attempted to exchange passes.


There are no stats to establish who scored most of his assists. For all I care, 90% of them may have been scored by attackers. If that's the case, it still does not prove that he "allows midfield to play".



"He holds the ball and allows the midfield to play". . however "he does not play with the midfield". What the phuck does that mean? Somehow he's holding the ball and the mid-fielders are playing but they don't have the ball. . . Or how did they begin playing when they didn't have the ball?



You tried creating an argument that leans towards Drogba being a better link player with his teammates than Torres. You claimed Torres loses the ball more often than Drogba. I claim Drogba loses the ball even more than Torres and therefore in that respect, Drogba is worse than Torres.

You claim my point is untrue as Drogba holds the ball and "allows the midfield to play" but he doesn't play with them. If he doesn't play with the midfield, it means he probably has lost the ball which clearly "does not allow the midfield to play". Which also means, his link up play, movement and passes are poor and he does not link up with midfielders as well.

Therefore you cannot hold both points of view. It's a perfect contradiction. Call me all you names you wish. I could not flipping care less.

I dont have time for a dude who write arguments upon arguments and quote ambiguous statements trying to prove that saying that a striker with good hold-up play that helps his midfield to transition from defence to attack, whose game is holding-up, lay the ball off and spin off into the box (DD and most big target men) is the same as a striker who plays tiki-taka and quick interchange with his midfield (Tevez, Aguero and such). I dont see why I should have to be drawn into a game of he-said she-said because its common sense what DD brings to the players around him with his strength and hold-up, and that is not tiki-taka footie or whether you wanna call it quick interchange, link-up and movement. . . I no get time for pointless pedantry sotay Im being asked how someone sets up goals if he is poor with linking up with quick movement. Abeg!


Moving on. . .

Chelsea Interest in Debuchy is solidifying. . . DM reporting that £6m bid is being prepared for him . . .

[b][/b]

Ibime: I dont have time for a dude who write arguments upon arguments and quote ambiguous statements trying to prove that saying that a striker with good hold-up play that helps his midfield to transition from defence to attack, whose game is holding-up, lay the ball off and spin off into the box (DD and most big target men) is the same as a striker who plays tiki-taka and quick interchange with his midfield (Tevez, Aguero and such). I dont see why I should have to be drawn into a game of he-said she-said because its common sense what DD brings to the players around him with his strength and hold-up, and that is not tiki-taka footie or whether you wanna call it quick interchange, link-up and movement. . . I no get time for pointless pedantry sotay Im being asked how someone sets up goals if he is poor with linking up with quick movement. Abeg!


Moving on. . .

Chelsea Interest in Debuchy is solidifying. . . DM reporting that £6m bid is being prepared for him . . .

That will be a very nice deal. I prefer Debuchy or even Gabriel Selasie to Van Der Wiel. I pray the deal is sealed before pre-seasons.

DD is different from a target man of Mario, Ibra who can actually pass the ball.

@nateeves,
in the hunters'language, target men are called mark's men or u use that same word in the military. tiki-taka or puku pala is not part of their calling. in the building industry, they are called finishers.
the primary duty of a drogba is to fire, kill, strike,finish, punish or conclude.
if u look at the new improved van persie, you will see these words. if you know nesteroy very well, that is what he was doing. give me etoo and i will illustrate that more.since etoo left barca, it has been this striker or another. at man u, saha was brought in for the purpose while rud left and berbatov was tried now u have welbeck and chicharito trying their luck.
if you talk about drogba not passing or playing with his fellow players, u now talk about lamps not scoring more goals. i urge you to go back to the days of mourinho when drogba was used as a lone striker, he used to drop every up ball for lamps who always run behind him for immediate strikes.
now i am worried because most teams are celebrating the departure of drogba and i don't know who will buy in his place.

And what sort of nonsense is this? What gives you the right to hurl such insults at another Forum member? Does the Forum belong to your Father? Even if it did just where do you draw such audacity from?
Can you Imagine?

Ibime: Yet another display of pedantic idiocy by Nateevs.

I said maybe 70% of balls to DD are played to DD with defenders on his back so his allowing the midfield to play has little to do with his passing.

The eediot is now asking me how "he sets the midfield up".

DD has copped 70 assists in 8 years. . . please go and find out how he did it, and stop asking me nonsense questions, you jobless eediot. . . The eediot is now asking me how he set people up "since I said my allowing the midfield to play was talking about holding up not that he plays with the midfield or does the link ups and movements with them".

You also agree that DD is not good at the link ups, so please tell me how DD set up his 70 assists.

Are you questioning me or yourself?

What a foooorkiiiiing eeedioooot!!!

The dude now wants me to tell him that "There is no midfielder who didnt profit from DD's hold-up play, whether to set them up. . ." obviously means that the set-up is usually a result of his hold up play rather than fast interlinking of passes. . . after all no midfielder who didnt profit from DD's hold-up play, whether to set them up.

I have already attributed the setting up to the hold up play in the structure of the sentence, but as usual this eeediot wants me to spend my time analysing everyword in a sentence due to his lack of comprehension as he does with Debo.

Maybe next month, Nateevs will tell us that I said DD only sets up through hold-up play next time he sees me typing something about DD's good crossing for team-mates. Thats the nature of Nateevs senseless discussions. I am arguing with a nincompoop.

Do they pay this guy to analyse sentences and argue nonsense about them?

Bottom line is DD holds the ball up, which allows midfielders to transition, but DD is not good at quick link ups, one-twos and neat intrepassing. Nateevs agrees with this, yet arguing like an eediot over semantics all day.

I would never cross words with this pedantic nincompoop again.

edoyad: And what sort of nonsense is this? What gives you the right to hurl such insults at another Forum member? Does the Forum belong to your Father? Even if it did just where do you draw such audacity from?
Can you Imagine?

Shut your stinking gob dan dauda, akuya

edoyad: And what sort of nonsense is this? What gives you the right to hurl such insults at another Forum member? Does the Forum belong to your Father? Even if it did just where do you draw such audacity from?
Can you Imagine?

My friend sharrap and face front!

2012/13 Barclays Premier League fixtures in full:


Sat Aug 18 Wigan Athletic A

Sat Aug 25 Newcastle United H

Sat Sep 1 Reading H [to be rearranged due to our participation in the European Super Cup]

Sat Sep 15 Queens Park Rangers A

Sat Sep 22 Stoke City H

Sat Sep 29 Arsenal A

Sat Oct 6 Norwich City H

Sat Oct 20 Tottenham Hotspur A

Sat Oct 27 Manchester United H

Sat Nov 3 Swansea City A

Sat Nov 10 Liverpool H

Sat Nov 17 West Bromwich Albion A

Sat Nov 24 Manchester City H

Wed Nov 28 Fulham H

Sat Dec 1 West Ham United A

Sat Dec 8 Sunderland A

Sat Dec 15 Southampton H [to be rearranged due to our participation in Club World Cup]

Sat Dec 22 Aston Villa H

Wed Dec 26 Norwich City A

Sat Dec 29 Everton A

Tue Jan 1 Queens Park Rangers H

Sat Jan 12 Stoke City A

Sat Jan 19 Arsenal H

Tue Jan 29 Reading A

Sat Feb 2 Newcastle United A

Sat Feb 9 Wigan Athletic H

Sat Feb 23 Manchester City A

Sat Mar 2 West Bromwich Albion H

Sat Mar 9 Fulham A

Sat Mar 16 West Ham United H

Sat Mar 30 Southampton A

Sat Apr 6 Sunderland H

Sat Apr 13 Tottenham Hotspur H

Sat Apr 20 Liverpool A

Sat Apr 27 Swansea City H

Sat May 4 Manchester United A

Sun May 12 Aston Villa A

Sun May 19 Everton H

Wigan again for our first match. In 2005/06 season, our first match was also against Wigan. Crespo's goal late in that match secured us the the points. All our managers since Roman era has won all their opening fixtures except one. Hope Di Matteo wins his opening match.

Andre Uweh: Wigan again for our first match. In 2005/06 season, our first match was also against Wigan. Crespo's goal late in that match secured us the the points. All our managers since Roman era has won all their opening fixtures except one. Hope Di Matteo wins his opening match.

You could have told us the 'one'.
I'm guessing it's CA.

BlueDiva:

You could have told us the 'one'.
I'm guessing it's CA.

C.A won his opening fixture.

BlueDiva:

You could have told us the 'one'.
I'm guessing it's CA.

You hate him so much you dont even remember lol

Reported £24m opening bid from Juventus for Torres. Stick with him or twist?

Ibime: Reported £24m opening bid from Juventus for Torres. Stick with him or twist?

I'd drive him to Turin!

even if na 24million Naira sell the morrafucker and buy Falcao. Not that useless boy waiting to be one on one vs keeper from halfway line before he can score

High_Chief:

That will be a very nice deal. I prefer Debuchy or even Gabriel Selasie to Van Der Wiel. I pray the deal is sealed before pre-seasons.

CR ran him ragged the whole match, Mardwijk had to put him out of his misery.

Chelsea in a shocking 10m move for victor moses!

Ibime and nateevs fighting over DD? No, I ain't surprised!

How come no interest has been declared in Luka Modric? The dude is sure lookin to move.

How come no interest has been declared in Luka Modric? The dude is sure lookin to move.

@babamide,
modric wants to move even before now but it is obvious his club does not want to do business with chelsea. now we have hazard so let them go ahead and sale him to barca and madrid.

dayokanu:

Shut your stinking gob dan dauda, akuya

Ashewo Basterd, 10 10 kobo, ibime don pay your dowry yet? See how Poldi has improved just by being a Gunner.

190: ^Link please

stop spreading sahara reporters reports here

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/06/19/3185338/wigan-reject-ridiculous-chelsea-offer-for-moses

May be Chelsea will continue with the pursuit of Brown Ideye and hapu ya aka (Moses).

Andre Uweh:

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/06/19/3185338/wigan-reject-ridiculous-chelsea-offer-for-moses

May be Chelsea will continue with the pursuit of Brown Ideye and hapu ya aka (Moses).

why on earth did goal.com describe the move as ridiculous? Mtchew