truthislight:

but i thought tithing is not for christians?

Why are they collecting tith?

Tithing not for Christians? Of course we pay tithes.
Matt 23: 23
Woe unto you.......for ye pay tithe......and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy,and faith. these ought ye to have done, and NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER UNDONE. This means that in addition to pursuing law, judgement, mercy and truth, you do not omit paying tithes.
Tithing and offering is God's plan of financing the church: taking care of the Levites (ministers of religion), buying vehicles for evangelism, PA equipment, gen sets and other things needed for the propagation of the gospel including taking care of the poor, needy, widows and orphans

alexleo:
Cross check what we are teaching and point out the one that runs contrary to the bible. If you convince me i ll raise it in the church. We are all human and no one is infallible thats why we rely on the Holy Spirit to interprete the bible. God's word is perfect and beyond what the human mind can perfectly inteprete without the Holy Spirit. If you go through our practices as i outlined them you will see that it is void of personal interest, greed or personal glory of any pastor or overseer as we see in some churches today. And it is only when a church base their teachings on the Holy Spirit guidance that self does not take the centre stage.

I will raise my specific concerns but first I think its important to get a clear answer to my question. And I am still finding it difficult making out whether you think your/your churches teachings can possibly be wrong or not.

To put it simply:

Is it possible that some of what you/your "church" teach are wrong?

A. YES, it is possibly that some of our teachings are wrong.

B. NO, all our teachings are definitely right. It is not possible that even one of our teachings is wrong.

italo:
To put it simply:

Is it possible that some of what you/your "church" teach are wrong?

A. YES, it is possibly that some of our teachings are wrong.

B. NO, all our teachings are definitely right. It is not possible that even one of our teachings is wrong.

This na difficult question. i don't see anybody giving you a direct answer (without exposing their behind), even pastors no fit answer this kind of question.

italo:

I will raise my specific concerns but first I think its important to get a clear answer to my question. And I am still finding it difficult making out whether you think your/your churches teachings can possibly be wrong or not.

To put it simply:

Is it possible that some of what you/your "church" teach are wrong?

A. YES, it is possibly that some of our teachings are wrong.

B. NO, all our teachings are definitely right. It is not possible that even one of our teachings is wrong.

It depends on how you determine wrong teaching. Your wrong teaching might be right teaching for another.
Two children in the bible sacrifice to God and God chose the younger sacrifice and condemned the older one
would you say one sacrifice is wrong, except the ultimate judge condemned one for another or both accept both.

Zikkyy:

This na difficult question. i don't see anybody giving you a direct answer (without exposing their behind), even pastors no fit answer this kind of question.

The best answer depends on who is giving you the answer. Would you tell someone whose church has told that divine healing exist and he practicalized it in his life and got heal to tell you it was wrong?
Or someone who practicalized divine healing and he was not healed to tell you it was right?

italo:

I will raise my specific concerns but first I think its important to get a clear answer to my question. And I am still finding it difficult making out whether you think your/your churches teachings can possibly be wrong or not.

To put it simply:

Is it possible that some of what you/your "church" teach are wrong?

A. YES, it is possibly that some of our teachings are wrong.

B. NO, all our teachings are definitely right. It is not possible that even one of our teachings is wrong.

All our teachings are based on the bible through the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not move in a rigid manner, however He does not also move in a way that is contrary to the word of God. As we keep following his leading and interpretation of the word we keep improving wherever we find ourselves wanting. We cant know everything about God in this life and even in eternity. As we draw closer to him and he exposes the truth of his word to us we keep adjusting until the day we will see him in heaven. What God requires from us is that earnest desire to know him more and obey his word. Matthew 5;6 says- blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled. This is my submition and thats it.

alexleo:
All our teachings are based on the bible through the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not move in a rigid manner, however He does not also move in a way that is contrary to the word of God. As we keep following his leading and interpretation of the word we keep improving wherever we find ourselves wanting. We cant know everything about God in this life and even in eternity. As we draw closer to him and he exposes the truth of his word to us we keep adjusting until the day we will see him in heaven. What God requires from us is that earnest desire to know him more and obey his word. Matthew 5;6 says- blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled. This is my submition and thats it.

Appears you ticked option (A).

@italo, the man believes some of his church teachings are (could be) wrong, so over to you

obalola7:
The best answer depends on who is giving you the answer. Would you tell someone whose church has told that divine healing exist and he practicalized it in his life and got heal to tell you it was wrong?
Or someone who practicalized divine healing and he was not healed to tell you it was right?

It goes beyond experience. There are some teachings you don't experience (at least not while you are still around here) e.g the issue of trinity or any teaching on afterlife.

Zikkyy:

Appears you ticked option (A).

@italo, the man believes some of his church teachings are (could be) wrong, so over to you

I'm sure its obvious to you that the man is trying to sit on the fence and be elusive. He is being dishonest in his approach. It makes you wonder the kind of people who call themselves "Christians." People who can't let their yes be yes and their no be no.

But let me assume that you got him right, then my issue would be:

If the Apostolic Faith Church teaches error in any matter of faith and morals, then it cannot be God's Church or part of God's Church. The Church, the body of Christ cannot teach error.

Teaching error would mean that the Church might be teaching people things that can even lead them to hell. I will give an example: Jesus said “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." Some people teach that this "flesh" and "blood" is Holy Communion which is actually Jesus. Others teach that it is Holy Communion but it is only a symbol of Jesus. Yet, others say it is Jesus is not asking you to eat and drink anything, only to believe in him. Yet there is a consequence: if you do not do exactly what Jesus wants, "YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU!" And how can you go to heaven if you have no life in you?

So if a Church can teach error on a matter like this, it could possibly be leading people to hell. And Christ's Church cannot teach what will lead people to hell.

italo:
If the Apostolic Faith Church teaches error in any matter of faith and morals, then it cannot be God's Church or part of God's Church. The Church, the body of Christ cannot teach error.

Teaching error would mean that the Church might be teaching people things that can even lead them to hell.
.

@alexleo, I believe you have heard (abi na read), so what do you have to say?

salt 1:

Tithing not for Christians? Of course we pay tithes.
Matt 23: 23
Woe unto you.......for ye pay tithe......and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy,and faith. these ought ye to have done, and NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER UNDONE. This means that in addition to pursuing law, judgement, mercy and truth, you do not omit paying tithes.
Tithing and offering is God's plan of financing the church: taking care of the Levites (ministers of religion), buying vehicles for evangelism, PA equipment, gen sets and other things needed for the propagation of the gospel including taking care of the poor, needy, widows and orphans

Tithing is not for christians.

What you quoted up there is not an instruction to pay tith among christians.

Tithing is an old covanant thing the scripture you quoted is not a command for the new covanant christians to pay tith.

Beside, the statement was made under the old covanant and it was the blood of christ that kick started the new covanant.

Tithing command is not a christian thing.

Zikkyy:

Appears you ticked option (A).

@italo, the man believes some of his church teachings are (could be) wrong, so over to you

Where did i say that we are wrong? I said we keep seeking to know more of God and as we know more of him we keep adjusting where we are found wanting. In other words as we keep knowing him, we keep growing in various areas of our work and teaching. Growth is part of life and it is when you dont grow where you are supposed to grow that is an error.

Point out any error you ve seen in our teaching and support it with the bible then we take it from there.

italo:

I'm sure its obvious to you that the man is trying to sit on the fence and be elusive. He is being dishonest in his approach. It makes you wonder the kind of people who call themselves "Christians." People who can't let their yes be yes and their no be no.

But let me assume that you got him right, then my issue would be:

If the Apostolic Faith Church teaches error in any matter of faith and morals, then it cannot be God's Church or part of God's Church. The Church, the body of Christ cannot teach error.

Teaching error would mean that the Church might be teaching people things that can even lead them to hell. I will give an example: Jesus said “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." Some people teach that this "flesh" and "blood" is Holy Communion which is actually Jesus. Others teach that it is Holy Communion but it is only a symbol of Jesus. Yet, others say it is Jesus is not asking you to eat and drink anything, only to believe in him. Yet there is a consequence: if you do not do exactly what Jesus wants, "YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU!" And how can you go to heaven if you have no life in you?

So if a Church can teach error on a matter like this, it could possibly be leading people to hell. And Christ's Church cannot teach what will lead people to hell.

alexleo:
Where did i say that we are wrong? I said we keep seeking to know more of God and as we know more of him we keep adjusting where we are found wanting. In other words as we keep knowing him, we keep growing in various areas of our work and teaching. Growth is part of life and it is when you dont grow where you are supposed to grow that is an error.

Why is it difficult to answer simple Yes or No na? So if i was an unbeliever and you come to me preaching the good news, and i ask that you confirm if your teachings are truth, our discussion will go down this way:

Zikkyy: "The message i am hearing, i really liked it. But are you sure of what you are saying? are you telling me the truth? I don't want to convert only to find i am worshiping Sango younger brother o!"

alexleo: "well....i can't say am there yet sha. we are still seeking to understand this God-Jesus thingy".

Zikkyy: "you mean you are not even sure if Jesus is the son of God or not?"

alexleo: "It's not like that. It just that as we keep seeking him, we understand better and anywhere we found we have passed the wrong message, we quickly adjust or modify our initial view and message. you know how this thing goes"

Zikkyy: "You mean this message can change anytime you receive an improved understanding?"

alexleo: "you understand na"

Zikkyy:

alexleo:

Zikkyy: come back and talk to me when you receive the final understanding.

I really don't see how you want me to believe you are serious. Anyhow, see your report card below:

alexleo 0 : 1 italo (final score)

CASE CLOSED

truthislight:

Tithing is not for christians.

What you quoted up there is not an instruction to pay tith among christians.

Tithing is an old covanant thing the scripture you quoted is not a command for the new covanant christians to pay tith.

Beside, the statement was made under the old covanant and it was the blood of christ that kick started the new covanant.

Tithing command is not a christian thing.

I am really struggling to understand you. The quotation I used are the direct words of Jesus saying that in addition to paying tithes, you shouldn't forget justice and mercy. So how is that old testament?

salt 1:

I am really struggling to understand you. The quotation I used are the direct words of Jesus saying that in addition to paying tithes, you shouldn't forget justice and mercy. So how is that old testament?

Jesus simply made a statement on what was acceptable in the old covanant and does not mean that christians operate by the rule/law of the old covanant.

At the book of Hebrews 7, Tithing was Brought to a stop.

Besides, christians are not under the "law" of the Abrahamic covanant and Tithing was part of it.

If you take out Tithing from the law why leave behind animal sacrifice?

[quote author=italo]
I will give an example: Jesus said “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." Some people teach that this "flesh" and "blood" is Holy Communion
which is actually Jesus. Others teach that it is Holy Communion but it is only a symbol of Jesus. Yet, others say it is Jesus is not asking you to eat and drink anything, only to believe in him. Yet there is a consequence: if you do not do exactly what Jesus wants, "YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU!" And how can you go to heaven if you have no life in you?

Transubstantiation right? You are a Roman Catholic and I know there is no argument that can convince you on why this teaching (and a few others like purgatory, infallibility of the Pope) is wrong unless you have a direct experience with God on the issue. So instead of engaging in arguments which will achieve very little, I want to thank you for visiting this thread and for having an enquiring mind.
Just for your info, these are the Bible doctrines that Apostolic Faith teaches
1. One must be born again, sanctified and receive the Holy Ghost baptism with scriptural evidence of speaking in tongues
2. No divorce and remarriage
3. Christians make restitutions asking for forgiveness where they wronged people or returning what they stole or defrauded people to get
4. Literal second coming of Christ, eternal heaven and hell, white throne judgement and new heaven and new earth
5. Millenial reign of Christ with the overcoming saints
6. God heals all manner of diseases
7. Baptism by immersion, breaking of bread (Holy Communion) and washing of saints' feet
Actually, I pray for all christians asking God to accept our devotions and qualify us for heaven, because the truth is that there is no APOSTOLIC FAITH, ROMAN CATHOLIC or any other denomination in heaven. It is the mystical body called the Body of Christ, the Church of the Firstborn

salt 1:
I am really struggling to understand you. The quotation I used are the direct words of Jesus saying that in addition to paying tithes, you shouldn't forget justice and mercy. So how is that old testament?

The Jews were not tithing for fun. in the bible tithe is not something you do anyhow you like, there are procedures for it. The tithe Jesus was referring to is the tithe of farm produce the Jews (other eleven tribes of Israel) takes to the Levites; it is the tithe of farm produce the Jews take to the place that God chooses as his dwelling place and they are to jollof with it; it is the tithe they take (every third year) to the city gate (not church) for the Levites, the alien, the widows to jollof. The Jew cannot & will not pay his tithe to somebody from the tribe of Benjamin (or any of the other eleven tribe). So my friend when Jesus said to tithe, you need to understand what he was talking about. The tithe of agric produce belong to God, it is sacred to him and he gave specific instructions on how that tithe is to be paid. That instruction have not changed. If your pastor tells you to bring God's tithe to him, then he is a thief! He is the one robbing God

truthislight:

Jesus simply made a statement on what was acceptable in the old covanant and does not mean that christians operate by the rule/law of the old covanant.

At the book of Hebrews 7, Tithing was Brought to a stop.

Besides, christians are not under the "law" of the Abrahamic covanant and Tithing was part of it.

If you take out Tithing from the law why leave behind animal sacrifice?

Truthislight, where is the passage in the book of Hebrews?
Many of the OT laws were not done away by Jesus: He raised the standard higher. Check out His definitions of adultery, murder, and retaliation.
Sometimes when people don't pay tithes to God, they pay it some where else.

Italo really made no point.

It is alexleo 5 : -10 italo.

What he wants is until you make the Pope your salvation and worship idol, then you are teaching the truth.

Zikkyy:

The Jews were not tithing for fun. in the bible tithe is not something you do anyhow you like, there are procedures for it. The tithe Jesus was referring to is the tithe of farm produce the Jews (other eleven tribes of Israel) takes to the Levites; it is the tithe of farm produce the Jews take to the place that God chooses as his dwelling place and they are to jollof with it; it is the tithe they take (every third year) to the city gate (not church) for the Levites, the alien, the widows to jollof. The Jew cannot & will not pay his tithe to somebody from the tribe of Benjamin (or any of the other eleven tribe). So my friend when Jesus said to tithe, you need to understand what he was talking about. The tithe of agric produce belong to God, it is sacred to him and he gave specific instructions on how that tithe is to be paid. That instruction have not changed. If your pastor tells you to bring God's tithe to him, then he is a thief! He is the one robbing God

where are the levites you give your tithe?

Zikkyy:

The Jews were not tithing for fun. in the bible tithe is not something you do anyhow you like, there are procedures for it. The tithe Jesus was referring to is the tithe of farm produce the Jews (other eleven tribes of Israel) takes to the Levites; it is the tithe of farm produce the Jews take to the place that God chooses as his dwelling place and they are to jollof with it; it is the tithe they take (every third year) to the city gate (not church) for the Levites, the alien, the widows to jollof. The Jew cannot & will not pay his tithe to somebody from the tribe of Benjamin (or any of the other eleven tribe). So my friend when Jesus said to tithe, you need to understand what he was talking about. The tithe of agric produce belong to God, it is sacred to him and he gave specific instructions on how that tithe is to be paid. That instruction have not changed. If your pastor tells you to bring God's tithe to him, then he is a thief! He is the one robbing God

Mal 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes...that they may be meat in mine house...saith the LORD
I am not giving tithes to my pastor. I am giving it to God in His house where it will be used for orphans and widows and support those that are Levites(the fulltime people working in the different depts to preach,publish and pray for the work).
But don't pay tithes if God doesn't convince you. The qualification for going to heaven isn't paying of tithes. It is holy living without which no man shall see God.

Boomark:
Italo really made no point.

This is what happens when you allow sentiment or emotions distort your reasoning.

Boomark:
It is alexleo 5 : -10 italo.

fans and well-wishers awarding official marks! It's not done anywhere o! you better keep your marks to yourself (edited) as the official referee (umpire) for the match, MY DECISION IS FINAL!

truthislight:

Jesus simply made a statement on what was acceptable in the old covanant and does not mean that christians operate by the rule/law of the old covanant.

At the book of Hebrews 7, Tithing was Brought to a stop.

Besides, christians are not under the "law" of the Abrahamic covanant and Tithing was part of it.

If you take out Tithing from the law why leave behind animal sacrifice?

Do not crucify pls. As no one is perfect so is the church made up of such individual. The problem here is just the name but the giving is out of a cheerful heart. No one is compelled to or monitored by tithe card. What they do with it is also in line with where our high priest said "whatsoever you do...that you do unto me."

tithe is not part of the new covenant. But if one must pay tithe(or whatever it is called), it must be to the high priest not earthly pastor.

Italo cannot invite me to their church and i go. I don't want to be facing idols when the trumpet sounds. What will i even tell my Lord i was doing there.

Zikkyy:

This is what happens when you allow sentiment or emotions distort your reasoning.



fans and well-wishers awarding marks! It's not done anywhere o! as the official referee (umpire) for the match, MY DECISION IS FINAL!

italo is my brother, ask him. That's why i gave him 10.

But before you decide, where are the levites you must give your tithe?

Boomark:
What he wants is until you make the Pope your salvation and worship idol, then you are teaching the truth.

Scores are not based on the ultimate objective/aim of the participants (whatever that may be). Scores are based on how well the participants are able to tackle the question. Italo responded well to the question even though he was the one that raised it (no wuru-wuru for there), alexleo was just dancing atilogwu round the question without touching it.

Boomark:
where are the levites you give your tithe?

If you must know, i don't tithe. So there is no need looking a Levite to receive my tithe.

Zikkyy:
), alexleo was just dancing atilogwu round the question without touching it.

Why are you so funny??.....

I never knew alexleo was an atilogwu dancer...lmao

salt 1: Transubstantiation right? You are a Roman Catholic and I know there is no argument that can convince you on why this teaching (and a few others like purgatory, infallibility of the Pope) is wrong unless you have a direct experience with God on the issue. So instead of engaging in arguments which will achieve very little, I want to thank you for visiting this thread and for having an enquiring mind.
Just for your info, these are the Bible doctrines that Apostolic Faith teaches
1. One must be born again, sanctified and receive the Holy Ghost baptism with scriptural evidence of speaking in tongues
2. No divorce and remarriage
3. Christians make restitutions asking for forgiveness where they wronged people or returning what they stole or defrauded people to get
4. Literal second coming of Christ, eternal heaven and hell, white throne judgement and new heaven and new earth
5. Millenial reign of Christ with the overcoming saints
6. God heals all manner of diseases
7. Baptism by immersion, breaking of bread (Holy Communion) and washing of saints' feet
Actually, I pray for all christians asking God to accept our devotions and qualify us for heaven, because the truth is that there is no APOSTOLIC FAITH, ROMAN CATHOLIC or any other denomination in heaven. It is the mystical body called the Body of Christ, the Church of the Firstborn

This thread is not about the Catholic Church and has absolutely nothing to do with it. It doesn't even matter whether I am a Catholic or not. It is about The Apostolic Faith Church and Alexleo invited anyone who had any questions or issues about your "church" to come up with them. Unfortunately, or shamefully both of you have been dodging the number one question that I have asked about three times. Now you are trying to dodge by bringing in the Catholic Church and accusing me of arguing when I only asked the question I was invited to ask. If you want to raise your issues about the Catholic Church, there is a thread for that 'ask any questions about the Catholic Church" where I have answered every single question I have been asked. I have not hypocrytically dodged any question, not least, a simple one like this. Why can't you just answer yes or no?

Can your Church be wrong on its teaching on any matter of faith and morals?

A. Yes, it can be wrong. B. No, it can never be wrong.

Since you are interested in Holy Communion, let me ask you another simple question:

When Jesus says "unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you," what does your "church" teach that he meant by "flesh" and "blood?"

Zikkyy:

If you must know, i don't tithe. So there is no need looking a Levite to receive my tithe.

Ok sir.

Zikkyy:
Scores are not based on the ultimate objective/aim of the participants (whatever that may be). Scores are based on how well the participants are able to tackle the question. Italo responded well to the question even though he was the one that raised it (no wuru-wuru for there), alexleo was just dancing atilogwu round the question without touching it.

Thank you o. Some of these people just think that they win an argument or make sense by using many words or posting many times.

So to boomark, because you do not like the Catholic Church, no Catholic can make sense in any religious discussion anymore. Anybody arguing against a Catholic is right and the Catholic is wrong.

Just imagine the kind of people that call themselves "Christians."

italo:

Thank you o. Some of these people just think that they win an argument or make sense by using many words or posting many times.

So to boomark, because you do not like the Catholic Church, no Catholic can make sense in any religious discussion anymore. Anybody arguing against a Catholic is right and the Catholic is wrong.

Just imagine the kind of people that call themselves "Christians."

Concerning the catholics, am not concerned about the people but what they are practicing. If you you love Christ, i will say your making sense but if you say you want to pick Him..., i will not join u on that. So its not about you.

alexleo:
Where did i say that we are wrong? I said we keep seeking to know more of God and as we know more of him we keep adjusting where we are found wanting. In other words as we keep knowing him, we keep growing in various areas of our work and teaching. Growth is part of life and it is when you dont grow where you are supposed to grow that is an error.

alexleo: Point out any error you ve seen in our teaching and support it with the bible then we take it from there.

The word "HYPOCRITE" is written all over you.

I am asking: CAN YOUR CHURCH BE WRONG?

You are saying : SHOW ME WHERE WE ARE WRONG.

I am not even judging your "church" to be wrong, but you seem to be judging your "church" to be wrong already.

The answer to the question is YES or NO. If you can't answer this which other one can you answer?

Perhaps I should wait on salt 1 to see if he'll be a bit more honest than you or who knows, maybe this hypocrisy is widespread and acceptable in your "church."