₦airaland Forum

onatisi:
The Communiqué noted that the Taskforce has “instructed the Ministerial committee to meet within three months to propose a new roadmap to accelerate the creation of the single currency project by 2020. In this framework, a gradual approach can be undertaken, where a few countries, which are ready, can start the monetary union whilst the other countries join later.”

not all countries in the region will start at the same time

Exactly! That’s what I have reiterated all along...
Nigeria will almost certainly NOT be ready by next year.
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vaxx:
Not all west african state are buying into it. The francophone for instance are not part. They will only integrate the acceptance of the money into their local market . It will not replace cfa

See my previous posts...

The idea is to start with the WAMZ-ECO and then subsequently “merge” it with the CFA...
Significance of this communique is that all 15 ECOWAS states are now fully committed to the ECO common currency (whenever it may arrive).
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vaxx:
so far , only Ghana meet the requirement .The idea will not be actualize by 2020. Nigeria, the main pillar of ecowas economy is yet to get it right.

It will likely be phased in...
Starting with payment systems integration this year.
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Fourwinds:
you have said it all.. African leaders are very foolish except few.... They just talk any how as if achievement is by talking

While I am personally NOT a big fan of monetary union, it’s not just “talking”...
Some of our best economic/monetary minds have been at this project for over 20 years.
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onatisi:
it seems the eco will not be use as local tender but just when moving to another west african country , or am i wrong ?

I believe it will be local legal tender (though one proposal is start in WAMZ and then ‘merge’ with CFA)...
But limiting it to intra-community trade (at least at the outset) could be a more sensible route to proceed.
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aisammy4:
I'm amazed that we have not even understand that the world has been using single currency all this while. It is not new abeg.

Dont forget that there is no place you go in this world, even China that u cannot exchange dollars. Not just Dollars oh, Pound sterling, Euro, Dutch, Chinese Yen etc can all be used for transactions anywhere across the globe. That translate to mean they are world currency. But take naira note to China if u will find it easy to exchange?

Sadly, when our parents were young, one could exchange the Naira on the high street in London (and perhaps New York, but not sure)...
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BB9ja007:
Those it mean by next year we will stop using naira ? If so dat means our past leaders will no longer be in our currency

onatisi:
i think the best way to go about this is to use some countries to start the process maybe ghana ,togo or any other country but not my nigeria , i beg . and to see how the process works out . i dont think many countries in the region and even nigeria inclusive will be ready to drop their national currencies , it isnt even in their plans , because if it is then they would have been sensitizing the public about it

For better or for worse, I don’t think Nigeria will meet the convergence/admittance criteria by next year...

It would be rather awkward to have the biggest economy outside of the common currency, and thus the “fudge” is to essentially phase in the common currency, with WAMZ nations (including Nigeria) accepting each other’s currency probably starting this year (2019) as a first step towards integrating the Zone’s payment systems (of course the CFA Zone is already integrated), but this will NOT be a cake-walk at all.
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BB9ja007:
Those it mean by next year we will stop using naira ? If so dat means our past leaders will no longer be in our currency

I don’t think Nigeria will meet the convergence (admittance) criteria by next year...
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prekumohtim:
The death of Naira in an attempt to be like the Europeans ; Denmark and British realise it and walked away from the deal

The British were never part of the common currency (the Eurozone)...
And now they have filed their divorce papers, they don’t seem in a hurry to leave the Union.
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Gabriel411:
I don't like this name, I don't support they use ECO. The name already exist, they selling digital currency. Can this guys be creative for Gods sake.

“ECO” was the name proposed for the common currency way back in 2000 when WAMZ/WAMI were set up...It’s not a new name!
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ECOWAS has been working on this common currency for almost 20 years now...

The two biggest issues have been (1) economic convergence and (2) the CFA Zone (which has its own central bank). To address these, the West African Monetary Zone was set up in 2000, which had the West African Anglophone nations (Nigeria, Ghana, Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Gambia) as well as Guinea (which is Francophone, but does not use the CFA) as the 6 members. Thereafter West African Monetary Institute was set up in 2001, to bring the WAMZ and CFA members under one umbrella to work out the technical details for a common currency.

The WAMI ultimately settled on a convergence criteria (which was ultimately settled at 10 different economic indices). However, meeting the criteria has been the devil in the detail for most ECOWAS nations (for example, Nigeria has failed to meet the criteria of single-digit inflation and tax revenues of at least 30% of GDP, among others). Nonetheless, to move the process along, the current proposal is for the 6 WAMZ countries to start accepting each other’s currency as a first step towards the integration of the Zone’s payment system. Jury is still out!
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Focusmind:
Will ECO survive? Monetary union is based on strong economic fundamentals of member union. Certain things needs to be in place before implementation.
Things like sound micro economics, fiscal discipline in member states, huge export potentials in member states, political stability and peace.

All these are lacking in ECOWAS. Nigeria economy which should be about 60% of the sub-regional economy is not doing well and can't support itself talk more of supporting fragile economy of member state the same way Germany is the pillar of EURO and supporting fragile member states like Greece and others with huge debt.

The burden of ECO will be much on Nigeria and our export potential apart from oil is negligible. This will make ECO exchange with measure hard currencies to be worthless. More over, not everybody should be admitted into ECO. Requirements for admission must be set and those who meet the conditions will be admitted the same way EUROPEAN union set targets for membership admission. You must meet certain fiscal and economic and political criteria. These are to ensure stability and survival of the single currency. Ecowas should first study the European union.

We have been working on this common currency for almost 20 years now...

The two biggest issues have been (1) economic convergence and (2) the CFA Zone (which has its own central bank). To address these, the West African Monetary Zone was set up in 2000, which had the West African Anglophone nations (Nigeria, Ghana, Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Gambia) as well as Guinea (which is Francophone, but does not use the CFA) as the 6 members. Thereafter West African Monetary Institute was set up in 2001, to bring the WAMZ and CFA members under one umbrella to work out the technical details for a common currency.

The WAMI ultimately settled on a convergence criteria (which was ultimately settled at 10 different economic indices). However, meeting the criteria has been the devil in the detail for most ECOWAS nations (for example, Nigeria has failed to meet the criteria of single-digit inflation and tax revenues of at least 30% of GDP, among others). Nonetheless, to move the process along, the current proposal is for the 6 WAMZ countries to start accepting each other’s currency as a first step towards the integration of the Zone’s payment system. Jury is still out!
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OLD news really...

That’s why the West African Monetary Zone was set up in 2000, and the West African Monetary Institute was set up in 2001 to undertake technical preparations for the setting up of a common West African/ECOWAS central bank and common currency for the Zone.

The name “Eco” has always been the proposed name of any ECOWAS common currency, following in the tradition of Ecobank (which was initially envisaged as an ECOWAS-centric bank), Ecomarine (which has morphed), and Ecoair (which never got off the ground - no pun ).
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sholatech:
Why do ladies keep saying 'Rape'? She was raped by him at a young age and she stayed/worked in the church for many years thereafter?

And that sort of behavior by young rape/sexual assault victims is news to you? Some of you need enlightenment...smh
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Praizeupdates:
Bbnaija Winner 2018 Miracle Ikechukwu who has being silent for a while concerning her relationship with with Nina, show off his girlfriend in new adorable video clip he shared recently on his page. What do you think about this new babe?

I think she has US citizenship...
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ZOO!
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agabusta:
Good one from Mr President.

Your president is such a Stone Ager that out of 30 appointees he could only find 1 woman?

COS appointee has a “PhD in Animal Management”?
Sounds about the right skill-set for the National Assembly!
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IamPatriotic:
I did I just read that Godfrey Gaiya after spending 3 terms in the National Assembly stoop low to be appointed an ordinary Special Assistant? Nigerian are crass.

Anything to not have to get a real job...
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PoliteActivist:
That's the spirit.
Ok, ok, everyone, 9jarealist, budaatum, it's all over. As Gowon would say, "no victor, no vanquished". (Though I have a sneaky suspicion we all know who "won" - those screenshots eh!! ) But let's all be friends again. If we were together I'd order a round of drinks and pepper soup for everybody.
At least we all learnt that China and Japan not only have debts but are actually in worse shape debt-wise than US. Who would have thunk! Read through the thread you'll see no one said anything about China having debt.
Anyway, it's all over. Until we meet again on another thread, God bless.

Bros, it would be better for you folks to slink away rather than inflict another own-goal...
Because it turns out that my suspicion about CanadaOrBust not understanding the import of his Google “screenshots” has been validated.

Comparing China’s so-called “debt-bomb” (btw known to all persons remotely familiar with these matters, but now unsurprisingly a new discovery to the dude) to any nation’s foreign debt (African, US or other) is akin to comparing chalk with cheese. The Chinese “debt-bomb” is INTERNAL, and those debts which are owe to local Chinese banks were incurred not by the national government in Beijing but rather by sub national governments (primarily at the municipal level, but some at the regional levels). Accordingly, if those debt are defaulted upon it would be akin to the US subprime mortgage crisis (and the US savings and loans crises that occurred in the generation before ours) or closer to home the 2009 Nigerian banking crisis that compelled the bailout of several domestic banks. It’s a DOMESTIC time-bomb, and any effect externally will substantively be collateral damage (if any). Anyway, glad dude is willing to LEARN, but it’s also necessary to grasp the CORRECT lessons.

Meanwhile, don’t drink alcohol but will hold you to a non-alcoholic tipple some other time. Cheers!
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alBHAGDADI:
Hmm...

A rich American civilized woman helping a Nigerian man clean his kitchen. Yet broke and unexposed Nigerian feminists say they can't do such.

Feminists won't like this thread.

Are you saying that Nigerian men are generally “uncivilized”...
Because no/very few rich (or even poor) Nigerian men would help their wives clean the kitchen? Hmmmm....
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PoliteActivist:
Wow!! I never even knew that China and Japan has ANY debt! When their debt posture is even worse than that of USA! So why all the noise?! Thanks for the eye-opener bro.

Good question for the US government official lecturing African nations...
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PoliteActivist:
Well if you wish to know me, I have a topic on front page. You may come to have a sense of me though it.

https://www.nairaland.com/5267698/suicide-rate-country-2019-nigeria

You are the one being dishonest. Not only did you surreptitiously change your quote as the guy pointed out, you are trying to pretend you were disagreeing when the smiley face makes it clear you were celebrating the statement.

At this juncture in our local parlance we'd say:
See your life! You and your beloved China. I bet you thought China is debt free when it actually has a worse debt profile!

"Paper" includes coins and electronic money. You ought to know that. Hence "paper debt". Most US money exists merely as data entry - nothing physical is exchanged when money changes hands. The entry is simply changed.

As for the rest, study the guy's screenshots above then decide fir yourself between you and him who should be the other's b*tch!

Bye bye

I finally get you are obviously laboring under a severe basic comprehension deficit...

Even if someone was so challenged as not to decipher between different kinds of emoji (does that really look like a smiley face to any rational being), exactly under what twisted logic does somebody defending African nations for taking loans from China simultaneously agree with (and even “celebrate”) that such loans would make said African nations “slaves” to China? To be brutally honest, that’s just obtuse polemic pablum.

Meanwhile, didn’t bother to go read your referenced post because as I went back through this thread I have come to suspect it would be a complete waste of time. Suffice it to note, however, that unlike you who has obviously imbibed a potent brew of gibberish anti-China kool-aid (and thus actually believes that the Chinese government hunts down pregnant women and kill their babies), I bear no personal love (nor hate) for China but remain realistic enough to understand that the relations between nations are primarily to advance each nation’s interests (and in the best case scenario, there’s a coincidental “mutuality of interests” - such as I believe there is in most of the Sino-Africa relationship).
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CanadaOrBust:
He thinks nobody will notice he changed “sovereign” to “foreign”. If a guy can be so dishonest in a faceless internet forum, the kind of lies he’d be telling in real life!!

Here the true quote;

Grasping at straws much?

Yes I changed it, AFTER you kept “splitting hairs” even though the discussion from page ONE (and including the OP’s post) was about FOREIGN debt (the US was not warning the African/Nigerian govts about domestic debt or debt owed to local contractors, are they?) and despite repeated clarifications thereto you kept chasing shadows over substance by lumping together both domestic and foreign debt together (even though some of the domestic notes are held by the US government itself) in a desperate attempt at obfuscation, even though it would NEVER alter the reality that however calculated, China remains the single BIGGEST foreign lender to the US government. My bad was not adding a post-modification note that it was changed, but the change is editorial NOT substantive because it does NOT change the point. Quit grasping.

As for the personal insult, I will ignore because I was obviously not raised as crudely and uncouthly as you apparently were. SMH
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PoliteActivist:
Actually you are the one misleading people by making it seem USA owes China regular debt (the 9jarealist guy actually said the debt "makes US China's bitch". The canadaorbust guy is right - read his posts and screenshots. Just like money, countries/people are ready to snap up US Tbills (BTW it is paper) from China. US is not in any way beholden to China because of them just as USA is not belden to anyone simply because they have a trillion US dollars.

Do not know you from a can of paint, but...
I often loathe intellectually dishonest folk because they more often than not also turn out to be personally dishonest.

So why not put the excerpt that you selectively quoted (and dishonestly characterized) in context (as fully shown below)? Because if you concur with the premise that I was actually DISPUTING that “a borrower will always be a slave to the lender”, then by definition you are actually AGREEING that the US (borrower) will always be a slave to China (lender), which is way worse than just being a b*tch. SMDH

bid4rich:
That is the difference between the country that is thinking (China) and the one that is not thinking (Nigeria/Africa)

A borrower will always be a slave to the lender

9jaRealist:
China holds almost 30% of US foreign debt...
By your analogy that makes the US China’s b*tch!
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CanadaOrBust:
WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS GUY??!! I thought he has given up!!
Guy, do you even have google or u just say stuff. Do u even read the screenshots I post?
MONEY IS AN IOU!!! It is all over the internet. Google is available to everyone! Money is a type of iou that the govt will recognize as legal tender.
And (I’m tempted to call u mumu) I state things in a simplified way or I’ll have to write a book.
The way US owes China is about the same way Nigerian govt owes Dangote because he has piles of Naira.

Look, I’m done with you. I don’t think you have google but you have my screenshots including the one below. Read them. Educate yourself.
Good luck.

Keep trying to ignore FACTS and keep digging up crackpot OPINIONS...
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PoliteActivist:
Actually you are the one misleading people by making it seem USA owes China regular debt (the 9jarealist guy actually said the debt "makes US China's bitch". The canadaorbust guy is right - read his posts and screenshots. Just like money, countries/people are ready to snap up US Tbills (BTW it is paper) from China. US is not in any way beholden to China because of them just as USA is not belden to anyone simply because they have a trillion US dollars.

Dude, if you are you going to quote me do so in context...
Treasury bills are NOT not “paper” like your N1000 bill because unlike that bill it has to be repaid by a date certain (with interest).

Nonetheless, if we are going to ignore the SUBSTANCE of the discourse and keep chasing around substantively-meaningless shadows, suffice it to point out that paper certificates are NO longer issued for US treasury bills, but rather all sales and purchases are made in electronic book-entry form. Accordingly, it is not even technically nor grammatically accurate to posit that US treasury bills are “paper”! LMAO!

Meanwhile, the genesis of this line of discourse is my affirmation (and continued reaffirmation) that while debt may come in different forms (which by definition includes different terms/conditions and even risk levels), debt is debt - a legal obligation to repay money/credit. It is frankly rather silly to continue to belabor the drivel that just because US treasury bills are attractive, they are somehow NOT “truly” debt.

Finally, and yet again, money is legal tender NOT debt. When you pay money for a hotdog you are BUYING that hotdog, not retrieving a previously owed legal obligation. The nonsense excerpt that CanadaOrBust dug up from Google and darkened these pages with does not even support that tortured “money is debt” drivel, but I am beginning to suspect that he doesn’t quite grasp the import of what he’s reading.
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budaatum:
The fact that there are others willing to take on the debt does not mean it isn't debt as denoted by the use of the word "loan" in your attached!

The dude is now digging up and elevating partisan opinion as if that changes the basic underlying FACTS...
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CanadaOrBust:
U r talking like mumu. IT IS PAPER! Just like the N1000 note in your pocket. It is also “debt” the way the money in your pocket is debt. The govt prints worthless paper acknowledging they owe you N1000. They exchange it for your real N1000 worth of goods and services. They are not begging u to take it or keep it because someone else will take it. Same situation between US and China.
That trillion $ “debt” is actually more binding on China than US because a weaker dollar will hurt China much more than it hurts US.
STOP ARGUING NONESENSE!

A little education can be worse than none at all...

First, you seem at sea here, and thus proceed to chase the shadow of whether or not treasury bills and N1000 are both “paper” (presumably meaning both are issued in paper form, which one supposes this would exclude coins from your tortured “money is debt” illogicality) instead of the substance that treasury bills are NOT like N1000 bills because the former actually has to be REPAID with interest as per terms/conditions.

Meanwhile, the govt has NEVER given me (nor tens of millions of Nigerians) N1000 worth of goods and services for the N1000 bill we have, because a N1000 is not (and has never been) a debt by the government to the holder (and now I see that “debt” is in quotes apparently for cheap polemic flexibility ). A N1000 note is LEGAL TENDER (a concept you seem befuddled by), not debt. Repeat that 1000 times.
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Jayess:
Thanks for the explanation. Now I understand, I have always wondered, how US could owe that much.

CanadaOrBust:
U r welcome.
What people like 9jarealist don’t understand is that the 1000 naira note u have in your pocket is the same as the US paper China has - it is a promise (an IOU) by the government to pay you N1000. But no one ever returns the N1000 notes to the govt because there are always other people willing to take it from you in exchange for goods or services.

Nope! It is most definitely NOT the same...

What people like CanadaOrBust do not understand is, that unlike the N1000 note you have in your pocket, US treasury bills (he can call it “paper” all he wants as if it’s fungible) have to be REDEEMED! In other words, not substantively unlike the debt that African countries take on, the principal and the interest (coupon) has to be repaid according to specifically provided terms and conditions, including timelines. The fact that US treasuries are virtually (emphasis on virtually) risk-free does NOT render them as non-debt but merely is reflected in the coupon/yield and such other terms and conditions of issuance. Meanwhile, US treasuries are used to finance govt expenditure - just like African govts debt.
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Tolexander:
These questions for middle 4 students?

Me wey study geography for a reputable federal university, throughout my 4years of studying , I wasn’t given these kind of questions in any of my exams.

Little wonder people with just ordinary school certificates were better than the nowaday graduates

So you think these are good questions?

Frankly, all it does is remind us of the essence and focus of colonial era “education” - where and how to access/extract Africa’s resources! SMH
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