₦airaland Forum

ideyhere: Please anybody who read this can summarize the point op is trying to make...thank you in advance

IN SUMMARY GOD IS ONE JESUS IS A PROPHET AND NOT GOD........if u ask for verse that say jesus is a prophet i will provide it BUT U JUST GIVE ME A VERSE WHERE JESUS SAY I AM GOD OR OUR GOD IS THREE

yuncka: I no blame some pipl, U so good @ copy and paste.

BTW, U would have made sense if U copy/paste small stuff I could patiently read.

BTW again, Jesus is still d SON of the most high God.

WITH ALL THIS EVIDENCE JUST GIVE ME A SINGLE VERSE THAT JESUS SAY I AM GOD

sogodihno: U don sabi bible finish abi? Come and explain John 1: 1,2 & 14. 1 Tim 3:16. Let me give u dz few places go and study it i dont av time to type much now.
NOTE: if u want to study d bible open ur mind, Push out all wat dey av put or av in ur mind. Even fornicator and thief can interprete d bible to suit demselves. Jesus is d way, d truth and d life nobody comes to the father except through him.
Jesus is God and he is also d son of God, u ask how is dt posible? yh! it's posible because wth God all things are posible.
Go and read 1 john chap 2. wth Open mind ni o.
Accept christ tomoro myt b too late. God bless u

THAT IS WAT YOU PEOPLE DONT KNOW...I AM FOLLOWIN JESUS MORE THAN U THINK BECAUSE IF I AM FOLLOWING MUHAMMAD I AM FOLLOWING JESUS
i
even follow jesus more than u think jesus condemn payment
of interesr when we try to establish islamic banking with
interest free loan CAN OPPOSED IT reference l- Imran
{3:130} “O ye who believed! Devour not usury, doubling and
quadrupling (the sum lent). Observe your duty to Allah, that
ye may be successful.” Another message is repeated in:
Surah, Al-Baqara {2:188} “And eat not up your property
among yourselves in vanity, nor seek by it to gain the
hearing of the judges that ye may knowingly devour a portion
of the property of others wrongfully.” What does the Christian
book has to say concerning Interest and Bribery? Is it really
there in the Bible? Yes! Why is C.A.N against it? I don’t
know……….. Then, they are the Biggest Anti-Christ that I have
ever seen………….. Exodus 23:8 "And thou shalt take no bribe:
for a bribe blindeth them that have sight, and ruins the cause
of those who are the righteous.” Warning against Bribery!
What about Interest? Let’s examine this verse again: Exodus
22:25 “If thou lend money to any of my people with thee that
is poor, thou shalt not be to him as a creditor; neither shall
ye lay upon him interest.” Similar message is also repeated
in the Book of Deuteronomy: Deuteronomy 23:19 "Thou shalt
not lend upon interest to thy brother; interest of money,
interest of victuals, interest of anything that is lent upon
interest.” THE BIBLE SAID U SHOULD COVER UR HEAD U
OPPOSE IT( 1 Corinthians 11:5, says that “Every woman who
prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her
head, for that is one and the same as if her head were
shaved) WHEN AREGBESHOLA RAISED THE ISSUE OF
COVERING HEAD IN OSUN CAN OPPOSE IT WHAT AN ANTI
CHRIST i know u will said it is only when they want topray
pls dont children pray in school on assembly ground.....dont
they pray before eating?......all christians nowadays are anti
christ THE BIBLE SAID WOMEN SHOULD NOT TALK IN
CHURCH U PEOPLE WENT TO ORGANISE CHOIR EVEN NOW
WOMEN ARE NOW PASTORS( - I Corinthians 14:34-35: Let
your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not
permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be
under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn
any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a
shame for women to speak in the church.) JESUS PRAY U
NEVER DID THAT INSTEAD U CRITICISE MUSLIMS FOR
BOWING THEIR HEAD( DISCRIPTION OF SOLAT IN THE
BIBLE "Ezra the scribe stood on a high wooden platform
(ready for solat) that had been made for the occasion. To his
right stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Uriah, Hilkiah, and
Maaseiah. To his left stood Pedaiah, Mishael, Malkijah,
Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah, and
Meshullam." (Nehemiah 8:4)."And Ezra opened the book in
the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people
(imam) and when he opened it, all the people stood
up:" (Nehemiah 8:5)."Then Ezra praised the LORD(takbiratul
iram), the great God, and all the people chanted, "Amen!
Amen!" as they lifted their hands. Then they bowed down
(rukuh) and worshiped the LORD with their faces to the
ground(sujud)." (Nehemiah 8:6).......DID U DO THIS? WHAT
AN ANTICHRIST.....EVEN THOUGH U PEOPLE TAMPER THE
BIBLE THE TRUTH WILL SHOW IT SELF....ALL CHRISTIANS NOWADAYS ARE ANTICHRIST EXCEPT WE MUSLIM BECAUSE YISA PROPHESISE THE COMING OF MUHAMMAD

INJESUSNAME: read john 1:45. 'Philip findeth Nathanael and saith unto him we have found Him of whom moses in the law and the prophets did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of joseph.' did Jesus object to it? Did Jesus ever say dat another prophet was coming? I kno Jesus gave warning against false prophets like muhammad because if he was from God, he will not disobey the law of God; thou shalt have no other gods besides me, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet ur neibor wife, property etc. Muhammad flagrantly disobeyed all these and still claimed he was a prophet of God of Israel. According to Deuteronomy 18:15, "midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me" is self explanatory. Jews were forbidden from marying non jewish let alone, God wuold raise a pagan womaniser to b their prophet. I see the deception dat Christ waned us against here in Matthew 24:24. Beware!

THAT IS THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THIS PEOPLE PROVE THE VERSES I POSTED WRONG NW

lirusehn:
Am a Moslem becuz I'll be killed if i dare to convert

instead u should have said u are afraid to convert to islam because u will be killed here is my proof
Trying to convert people to
another religion. (stoning)
( Deuteronomy 13:1 -11,
Deuteronomy 18:20 ).
Apostasy - If most people in a
town come to believe in a
different god. (Kill everybody,
including animals, and burn the
town, and the people who do
believe in that god.)
( Deuteronomy 13:12-15) [

malvisguy212: if you believe in jesus christ, GO TO YOUR MOSQUE AND SHOUT JESUS CHRIST.
COLOSSIANS 1:15-23
TO KNOW WHO JESUS REALY IS.
The Supremacy of the Son of God 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in
heaven and on earth, visible and invisible,
whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things have been created
through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold
together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and
the firstborn from among the dead, so
that in everything he might have the
supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all
things, whether things on earth or things
in heaven, by making peace through his
blood, shed on the cross. 21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of
[g] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body
through death to present you holy in his
sight, without blemish and free from
accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not
move from the hope held out in the
gospel. This is the gospel that you heard
and that has been proclaimed to every
creature under heaven, and of which I,
Paul, have become a servant.

AFTER many evidence tht has been provided tocounter most rubbish u post u still post trash around i wont say anything....just know that all what u posted has been answered before but if u like i can remember u sha

Bible says that Jesus’ teachings were from God, not from himself
‘So Jesus answered them and said, ‘My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me.’ (John
7:16)
Jesus could not have said this if he were God because the doctrine would have been his.
Bible says that Jesus died, but God cannot die
The Bible teaches that Jesus died. God cannot die. Romans 1:23 and other verses say that God
is immortal. Immortal means, ‘not subject to death.’ This term applies only to God.
Bible says that Jesus lived because of God
‘I live because of the Father.’ (John 6:57)
Jesus cannot be God because he depended on God for his own existence.
Bible says that Jesus’ powers were given to him
‘All power is given unto me.’ (Matt 28:18)
God is all-powerful, no one gives God His powers, otherwise He would not be God because He
would be weak. Therefore, Jesus could not be God.
Bible says that Jesus was taught & commanded by God
‘As my Father hath taught me, I speak these things,’ (John 8:28)
‘The Father, who sent me, he gave me a commandment.’ (John 12:49)
‘I have kept my Father’s commandments.’ (John 15:10)
No one can teach God, otherwise God cannot be All-Knowing and would owe His teacher.
Since Jesus was taught and commanded by God, Jesus cannot be God himself. The teacher
and the student, the commander and the commanded are not one.
Bible says that God made Jesus ‘Lord’!
‘God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ.’ (Acts 2:36)
‘Lord’ is used in many ways in the Bible, and others beside God and Jesus are called ‘Lord.’
For example:
1) property owners (Matt. 20:
2) heads of households (Mark 13:35)
3) slave owners (Matt. 10:24)
4) husbands (1 Pet. 3:6)
5) a son called his father Lord (Matt. 21:30)
6) the Roman Emperor was called Lord (Acts 25:26)
7) Roman authorities were called Lord (Matt. 27:63)
‘Lord’ is not the same as ‘God.’ ‘Lord’ (the Greek word is kurios) is a masculine title of respect
and nobility used many times in the Bible. If Jesus was God, then for the Bible to say he was
‘made’ Lord would make no sense.
Bible says that Jesus was lower than angels
‘But we do see him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely,
Jesus.’ (Hebrews 2:9)
God, the Creator of angels, can not be lower than His own creation, but Jesus was. Therefore,
Jesus was not God.
Bible says that Jesus called the Father ‘my God’
‘My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?’ (Matt. 27:46)
‘I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.’ (John 20:17)
‘the temple of my God the name of my God the city of my God comes down out of heaven from
my God.’ (Rev. 3:12)
Jesus did not think of himself as God, instead Jesus’ God is the same as ours.
Bible says that God cannot be seen
But Jesus was seen by others ‘no man has seen God at any time.’ (John 1:18)
Bible says twice that Jesus was accused of being God
But he denied it: According to the Bible, on only two instances the Jews opposed Jesus on the
basis that he pretended to be God or equal with God. Had Jesus, may the mercy and blessings
of God be upon him, claimed to be God, he is likely to have been opposed on this basis more
frequently.
Because in these two instances, when charged, in the one case, with making himself God, and
in the other, with making himself equal with God, he denied the charges. In reply to the charge
of being an equal with God, he says immediately:
‘The son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do’; and directly after ‘I can of
mine own self do nothing.’ (John 5:19, 30)
In answer to the charge of making himself God, he appeals to the Jews in substance thus: Your
own Scriptures call Moses a god, and your magistrates gods; I am surely not inferior to them,
yet I did not call myself God, but only the ‘son’ of God (John 10:34-36).
This is unlikely to have been Jesus’ actual response. Hastings in ‘The Dictionary of the Bible’
says, ‘Whether Jesus used it of himself is doubtful.’ Grolier’s encyclopedia, under the heading
‘Jesus Christ,’ says, ‘it is uncertain whether the Father/Son language (Mark 18:32; Matt.
11:25-27 Par.; John Passim) goes back to Jesus himself.’ A University of Richmond professor,
Dr. Robert Alley, after considerable research into newly found ancient documents concludes
that:
‘The (Biblical) passages where Jesus talks about the Son of God are later additions. what the
church said about him. Such a claim of deity for himself would not have been consistent with
his entire lifestyle as we can reconstruct. For the first three decades after Jesus’ death
Christianity continued as a sect within Judaism. The first three decades of the existence of the
church were within the synagogue. That would have been beyond belief if they (the followers)
had boldly proclaimed the deity of Jesus.’
Assuming Jesus did say that he was ‘son’ of God. What did it mean? We first need to know the
language of his people, the language of the Jews to whom he was speaking.
The Bible says God had many ‘sons’
First, most people think there are no other verses that contradict or give equal divine sonship to
other persons in the Old or New Testament.
For Jesus to be called son of God, does not make him a true son of God, other wise Adam,
Jacob, Ephraim and many more should also be considered as been sons of God as such they
should be worshiped too according to such method.
Adam: ‘Adam, which was the son of God.’ (Luke 3:38)
Jacob is God’s son and firstborn: ‘Israel is my son, even my firstborn.’ (Exodus 4:22)
Solomon: ‘I will be his father, and he shall be my son.’ (2 Samuel 7:13-14)
Ephraim: ‘for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.’ (Jeremiah 31:9)
is God’s firstborn, common people are called the sons of God: ‘Ye are the children of the Lord
your God’ (Deuteronomy 14:1)

Disciples did not believe Jesus was God
The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty
years after Jesus was raised to heaven. Throughout this period, they never referred to Jesus as
God. For instance Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed a crowd saying:
‘Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by
miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.’
(Acts 2:22)
For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God (confirmed In Matthew 12:18)
‘The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.’
(Acts 3:13)
‘God raised up his servant’ (Acts 3:26)
When faced by opposition from the authorities, Peter said
‘We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus’ (Acts 5:29-30)
The disciples prayed to God just as they were commanded by Jesus in Luke 11:2, and
considered Jesus to be God’s servant.
‘they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the
heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.’ (Acts 4:24)
‘your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.’ (Acts 4:27)
‘of Your holy servant Jesus.’ (Acts 4:30)
‘I am indeed a servant of God.’ (Quran 19:30)
The Bible says that Jesus was God’s servant
‘Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased.’ (Matt 12:18) Since
Jesus is God’s servant, Jesus can not be God.
The Bible says that Jesus could not do anything by himself
‘The son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing.’ (John 5:19)
‘I can of mine own self do nothing.’ (John 5:30)
The Bible says that Jesus did not consider himself equal with God
and that God performed miracles through Jesus & Jesus was limited in what he could do:
‘But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such
authority to men.’ (Matt. 9:
‘a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed
through Him in your midst.’ (Acts 2:22)
‘he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with
Him.’ (Acts 10:38)
If Christ was God, the Bible would simply say that Jesus did the miracles himself without
making reference to God. The fact that it was God supplying the power for the miracles shows
that God is greater than Jesus.
Also, Jesus was limited in performing miracles
One time when Jesus tried to heal a blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt,
and Jesus had to try a second time (Mark 8:22-26).
Once a woman was healed of her incurable bleeding. The woman came up behind him and
touched his cloak, and she was immediately healed. But Jesus had no idea who touched him:
‘At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and
asked, ‘Who touched my clothes?’ (Mark 5:30)
‘He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.’
(Mark 6:5)
Quite obviously, someone with such limitations can not be God. The power of miracles was not
within Jesus.
The Bible says that at times of weakness angels strengthened Jesus
God ,however, does not need to be strengthened. Human need to be strengthened; God does
not because God is All-Powerful. If Jesus had to be strengthened, he must not be God.
‘An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him - in the garden of Gethsemane’
(Luke 22:43)
‘Then the devil left him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him’ (Mark. 1:13)
‘And he was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild
beasts, and the angels were ministering to him.’ (Mark 1:13)
The Bible says that Jesus wanted God’s will to be done
‘not my will but Yours be done.’ (Luke 22:42)
‘I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.’ (John 5:30)
‘For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.’ (John
6:38)
Are some members of the coequal Trinity subservient, and less than equal, to other members?
Even though they have different wills (‘I do not seek my own will’), do they obey without
question the others’ commands (‘the will of Him who sent me’)? Jesus admits to subordinating
his own distinct will, yet according to the Trinitarian doctrine they should all have the same
will. Should one of the triune partners have to forgo his own will in favor of the will of another
member of the Trinity? Should not they all have the exact same will?
The Bible says Jesus regarded himself and God as two
‘I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father.’ (John 8:17-18
‘Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.’ (John 14:1)
If Jesus was God, He would have not have regarded God’s testimony as separate from his own.
The Bible says that Jesus is subordinate to God
‘Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is
man, and the head of Christ is God.’ (1 Corinthians 11:3)
‘When he has done this, then the son himself will be made subject to him who put everything
under him, so that God may be all in all.’ (1 Corinthians 15:28)
Bible says that Jesus grew in wisdom & learning
But God is All Wise & does not need to learn: Jesus grew in wisdom, but God is all wise ‘Great
is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.’ (Psalms 147:5)
‘And Jesus increased in wisdom.’ (Luke 2:52)
God does not need to learn, but Jesus learned: ‘Although he was a son, he learned obedience’
(Heb. 5:
Jesus had limited knowledge, but god’s knowledge is infinite. Since Jesus did not know, he was
not all-knowing, and therefore, he cannot be the God whose knowledge is all-encompassing.
‘No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the
Father.’ (Mark 13:32)
Bible says that Jesus was tempted, but God cannot be tempted
’tempted in every way - just as we are’ (Heb. 4:15)
‘for God cannot be tempted by evil’ (James 1:13)
Since God can not be tempted, but Jesus was, therefore, Jesus was not God.

All four Gospels record Jesus as saying, "Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called
sons of God."
The word ‘son’ cannot be accepted literally because in the Bible, God apparently addresses
many of his chosen servants as ‘son’ and ‘sons.’ The Hebrews believed God is One, and had
neither wife nor children in any literal sense. Therefore, it is obvious the expression ‘son of God’
merely meant ‘Servant of God’; one who, because of faithful service, was close and dear to God
as a son is to his father.
Christians who came from a Greek or Roman background, later misused this term. In their
heritage, ‘son of God’ signified an incarnation of a god or someone born of a physical union
between male and female gods. This can be seen in Acts 14: 11-13, where we read that when
Paul and Barnabas preached in a city of Turkey, pagans claimed they were gods incarnate.
They called Barnabas the Roman god Zeus, and Paul the Roman god Hermes.
Furthermore, the New Testament Greek word translated as ‘son’ are ‘pias’ and ‘paida’ which
mean ‘servant,’ or ‘son in the sense of servant.’ These are translated to ‘son’ in reference to
Jesus and ‘servant’ in reference to all others in some translations of the Bible. So, consistent
with other verses, Jesus was merely saying that he is God’s servant.
Additional problems with Trinity
To a christian, God had to take human form to understand temptation and human suffering, but
the concept is not based on any clear words of Jesus. In contrast, God does not need to be
tempted and suffer in order to be able to understand and forgive man’s sins, for He is the all
knowing Creator of man. This is expressed in the verse:
‘And the Lord said: ‘I have surely seen the affliction of My people that are in Egypt, and I have
heard their cry because of their taskmasters; for I know their pains.’ (Exodus 3:7)
God forgave sin before Jesus’ appearance, and He continues to forgive without any assistance.
When a believer sins, he may come before God in sincere repentance to receive forgiveness.
Indeed, the offer to humble oneself before God and be saved is made to all humankind.
‘And there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside Me. Look to
Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is none else.’ (Isaiah
45:21-22, Jonah 3:5-10)
Biblically, people can receive forgiveness of sins through sincere repentance sought directly
from God. This is true at all times and in all places. There has never been a need for the so-
called inter cessionary role Jesus plays in attaining atonement. The facts speak for themselves.
There is no truth to the Christian belief that Jesus died for our sins and salvation is only
through Jesus. What about the salvation of people before Jesus? Jesus’ death brings neither
atonement from sin, nor is it in any way a fulfillment of biblical prophecy.
Christians claim that in the birth of Jesus, there occurred the miracle of the incarnation of God
in the form of a human being. To say that God became truly a human being invites a number of
questions. Let us ask the following about the man-God Jesus. What happened to his foreskin
after his circumcision (Luke 2:21) ?
Did it ascend to heaven, or did it decompose as with any human piece of flesh? During his
lifetime what happened to his hair, nails, and blood shed from wounds? Did the cells of his
body die as in ordinary human beings? If his body did not function in a truly human way, he
could not be truly human as well as truly God. Yet, if his body functioned exactly in a human
way, this would nullify any claim to divinity. It would be impossible for any part of God, even if
incarnate, to decompose in any way and still be considered God. The everlasting, one God, in
whole or in part, does not die, disintegrate, or decompose: ‘For I the Lord do not change.’
(Malachi 3:6)
Did Jesus’ flesh dwell in safety after his death?
Unless Jesus’ body never underwent ‘decay’ during his lifetime he could not be God, but if it did
not undergo ‘decay’ then he was not truly human.
Bible says that God is not man
‘God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19)
‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9)
Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible
‘a man who has told you the truth’ (John 8:40)
‘Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which
God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)
‘He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed’ (Acts 17:31)
‘the man Christ Jesus’ (Tim. 2:5)
The Bible says that God is not a son of man
‘God is not a man nor a son of man’ (Numbers 23:19)
The Bible often calls Jesus ‘a son of man’ or ‘the son of man.’
‘so will the son of man be’ (Matthew 12:40)
‘For the son of man is going to come’ (Matthew 16:27)
‘until they see the son of man coming in His kingdom.’ (Matthew 28)
‘But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority’ (Mark 2:10)
‘because he is the son of man’ (John 5:27)
In the Hebrew scriptures, the ‘son of man’ is also used many times speaking of people (Job
25:6; Psalm 80:17; 144:3; Ezekiel 2:1; 2:3; 2:6-8; 3:1-3).
Since God would not contradict Himself by first saying He is not the son of a man, then
becoming a human being who was called ‘the son of man’, he would not have done so.
Remember God is not the author of confusion. Also, human beings, including Jesus, are called
‘son of man’ specifically to distinguish them from God, who is not a ‘son of man’ according to
the Bible.
The Bible says that Jesus denied he is God
Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No
one is good except God alone.’ (Luke 18:19)
And he said to him, ‘Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is
good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ (Matthew 19:17)
Jesus did not teach people that he was God
If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man.
Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.
The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus
‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)
‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)
Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son
are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.
Jesus never instructed his disciples to worship him
‘When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.’ (Luke 11:2)
‘In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.’ (John
16:23)
‘The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and
in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.’ (John 4:23)
If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself
Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.
Jesus worshipped the only true God
‘that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.’ (John
17:3)
‘he continued all night in prayer to God.’ (Luke 6:12)
‘Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve’ (Matthew 20:28)
How did Jesus pray to God?
‘he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father’ (Matthew 26:39)
‘During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and
tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent
submission.’ (Hebrews 5:7)
Who was Jesus praying to when he fell on his face?
Was Jesus crying in tears to himself pleading to be saved from death? No man, sane or insane,
prays to himself! Surely the answer must be a resounding ‘No.’ Jesus was praying to ‘the only
true God.’ Jesus was the servant of the One Who sent him. Can there be a clearer proof that
Jesus was not God?
The Quran confirms that Jesus called for the worship of the Only True God:
“It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is
straight.” (Quran 3:51)

THIS question is for everybody............ christians is this true and for muslim did u believe what this people allege on yisa

Jesus said, "whosoever shall say, Thou
fool, shall be in danger of hell fire" (Matt. 5:22). Yet,
he himself did so repeatedly, as Matt. 23:17,
Blind fools, which is greater, the gold, or the temple that made the gold sacred?
LUKE 11:40
Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make
that which is within also?
PLS IS JESUS ACTUALLY GOING TO HELL

malvisguy212: jesus come to fulfilled the law, how?by taking full control of the law.how did jesus take full control of the law? When the people ask him who they are to pay tax to? And he say"give to ceaser what is ceaser and to God what is God"for the people to ask him this question mean that he take full control of the law.the old testament has the ten commandment, the first five is about worshiping God and the other's five is about loving your fellow human. But in the new testament jesus break it to two.
1. WORSHIP GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND MIND;if you love God you will worship Him alone.
2.LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOUR SELF;if you love your neighbour, you will not kill or molest him. So now we see the law in the new and old testament are still the same but the difference is in the new testament God judge us with righteousness and grace,
RIGHTEOUSNESS ;if you believe in Jesus christ, the Lord righteousness will dwell in you, you will not sin.
GRACE;as a human, we are not perfect if we sin and genieuly repent God will give us his grace and forgive us.


The arab live by the law denying the righteousness and grace of God, by implementing sharia law.

THE ONLY THING U CAN USE TO CONVINCE ME IS TO BRING A VERSE WHERE JESUS SAY DONT FOLLOW THE OLD TESTAMENT.....BECAUSE I GUESS WHAT U ARE TRYING TO PROVE IS THAT JESUS WAS DRUNK WHEN HE SAID
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to
abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not
the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew
5:17-18) " It is quite clear from these verses from the
New
Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the
Old
Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has
to
be honored, followed and fulfilled.
"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to
his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees
sit
in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything
they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not
practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly
see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not
prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed, but only
warned his followers to not follow it the way the current
religious leaders of the Law (the Jewish Rabies) were
following it.(just like what you said)
U SAID JESUS BRING GRACE WHAT AN ANTICHRIST!........U EVEN MAKE ME LAUGH IF JESUS SAY LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOUR SELF DOES THAT MEAN CRIMINAL SHOULD NOT BE PROSECUTED?......PLS GIVE ME A SINGLE VERSE WHERE JESUS SAY DONT FOLLOW THE OLD TESTAMENT.........I JUST LAUGH AT U LIKE I HAVE ALWAYS SAID U NEVER ANSWER MY QUESTION SINCE WHEN I HAVE KNOWN U U BETTER FOLLOW THE FACT I HAVE ALWAYS ANSWER YOURS WITH COMPREHENSIVE EVIDENCE.........IF U ARE NOT A MUSLIM I ACCUSE YOU OF ANTICHRIST!!!.....DONT QUOTE ME BECAUSE U WILL BE BUSTED I FOLLOW YISA MORE THAN YOU BECAUSE YISA IS A PROPHET OF GOD IF I FOLLOW MUHAMMAD I AM FOLLOWING HIM.......ASK FOR EVIDENCE I AM ALWAYS READY ALL CHRISTIANS NOWADAYS ARE ANTICHRIST IMAGINE JESUS SAY FOLLOW THE OT U SAID GRACE SMH!!!!OR U MEAN JESUS IS DRUNK(JUST AS U PEOPLE SAY JESUS IS A DRUNKARD EVEN THOUGH WE MUSLIM KNOW THAT IT IS A LIE.....WHAT AN ANTICHRIST!!!!!!

educative thread

malvisguy212: this is old testament law,jesus has already come and fulfilled it by making t simple for us to follow.
1.LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART;if you love GOD WITH all your heart , you will not worship other gods beside Him.
2.love your neighbour as your self;if you love your neighbour you will not molest her/him.

Many times when I enter a debate with fellow Christians
and present verses from the Old Testament to them about
some of life's laws and issues that were given to the Jews
from GOD Almighty, they immediately give me answers
such as "Oh, this is an old testament law that we Christians
don't have to follow...." I find that to be quite an
interesting statement.(just like what you did)
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the
Old Testament: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to
abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until
heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the
least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from
the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew
5:17-18) " It is quite clear from these verses from the New
Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old
Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to
be honored, followed and fulfilled.

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to
his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit
in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything
they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not
practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3) " We clearly
see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not
prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed, but only
warned his followers to not follow it the way the current
religious leaders of the Law (the Jewish Rabies) were
following it.(just like what you said)

cloudstar: I asked you to choose one subject matter so we can discuss. Your problem is that you are all over the place. If you decide to keep the debate coherent, I will engage you. So, pick one subject matter in the Bible and let us discuss it. Pick one verse and I will respond to you. I will do the same with the Quran

HOW MANY TIME DID I WANT TO DO THAT?!.......U QUOTED VERSE OF BEATING IN THE QURAN I REMEMBER IT WAS 3 I DEFENDED IT U SAID MUHAMMAD BEAT HIS WIFE AND I PROVE U WRONG AM NT SUPRISE U NEVER ARGUE ON ANY OF THE VERSE IN THE QURAN AND BIBLE I QUOTED......PLS HOW MANY TIME DID I WANT TO POST......PLS AS I HAVE ALWAYS SAID DEFEND ANY OF THE VERSES I HAVE QUOTED..PLS CHOOSE ANY UR SELF........U SAID I AM ALL OVER THE PLACE YES!......BECAUSE U PEOPLE LACK SIMPLE KNOWLEDGE AND WE NEED TO EDUCATE YOU........I REMEMBER U QUOTED THAT MY POST IS TOO LONG SMH!......THAT IS WHAT TRUTHMAN2012 ALWAYS FIND AS AN EXCUSE AS I HAVE ALWAYS SAID I POST TO EDUCATE SO IT HAS TO BE COMPREHENSIVE AND IT IS AN ACT OF HYPOCRACY FOR U TO SAY THAT JUST READ IT AND PROVE ME WRONG......AND DONT FORGET WHAT I SAY JUST CHOOSE AMONG ANY OF THE VERSE I HAVE QUOTED UR SELF AND JUSTIFY IT

IN ADDITION SEE HOW U DISGRACE WOMEN
Deuteronomy 22:28-30 "If a man happens to meet a virgin
who is not pledged to be married and Molests her and they
are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of
silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He
can never divorce her as long as he lives."
(This verse was taken from the NIV Bible. The NIV Bible is
the most trusted and used Bible among Trinitanian
Christians. Many other authors of other bibles were
ashamed of this verse and changed the words "Molests her"
to words like "lay hold on her" or "seizes her and lies
down with her" . Other Bibles like the WE Bible removed
this verse completely, which is a total corruption !.)
One must ask a simple question here, who is really
punished, the man who Molested the woman or the woman
who was Molested? What is to prevent someone from finding
the best looking woman in town, Molesting her, telling
everyone about it, and then having the courts force her to
be his wife for the rest of her life?
We all hear about "date Molests" here in the US and Europe.
If the Christian groups from the "Army of God" who blow
abortion clinics in the US, or the owners of
www.godhatesfags.com ever rule their churches over the
state, then we will see things such as men brutally Molesting
the women they sexually desire the most on their dates,
then take these women to court and sue them and prove
that they Molested them. Then marry them by force, and
continue Molesting them for the rest of their natural life.
This might sound harsh and mean to you, but in reality, it
is all allowed in the Bible, and this is how it would be if the
church from the Fundamentalist Christians rule over the
state. In the middle centuries, women in the Christian
societies had absolutely no value !!. They were only sex
objects controlled and played with by their masters, the
men.
Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his
daughter as a slave girl , she will not go out in the way
that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes
of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a
concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be
entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously
dealing with her."
Here in this verse we can see that fathers can easily and
freely sell their daughters as slaves to other men. The
other men are free To Molest the daughters if they wish to do
so.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "And in case men struggle together
(in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has
come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one
(to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand
and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin) ,
she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of
the men must feel no sorrow. "
One has to ask himself a very simple question here: Why
should the wife who is trying to save her husband from
brutal beating by another man get both her hands cut off?
and why should we not have any mercy on her? Does this
sound inspired from God to you? Be honest with yourself.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she
profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth
her
father: she shall be burnt with fire. "
Why a priests daughter be burnt in fire just because her
father is a priest if she decides to act like a LovePeddler? Is
this
fair? Should it make a difference whether or not a girl's
father is a priest or not?
Ecclesiastes 25:22 "Of the woman came the beginning of
sin, and through her we all die." (from the Catholics
Bible) Women in the Bible are considered evil !!!.
Ecclesiasticus 22:3 "....and the birth of ANY daughter is a
loss" (From the New Jerusalem Bible. It's a Roman
Catholics Bible); Roman Catholics today form more than
75% of the Christians population throughout the world.
Why should the Bible give silly (with all respect to you)
generalizing statements like that about ALL women?
Leviticus 12:2-5 , if a woman gives birth to a baby boy, then
she becomes unclean for 7 days. But if she gives birth to a
baby girl, then she becomes unclean for 14 days. This
verse is another proof that women in the Bible are disliked
to be born !.
Ecclesiastics 7:26-28 "And I find more bitter than death
the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and
whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will
escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare....while I was
still searching but not finding, I found one upright man
among a thousand but not one upright woman among
them all". The Bible claims that it is impossible to find a
single good woman among a thousand women.
Let us examine the following two verses from the book
Leviticus:
Let us look at Leviticus 20:15 "If a man has intimate
relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and
you must kill the animal."
Let us look at Leviticus 20:16 "If a woman approaches an
animal to have intimate relations with it, kill both the
woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their
blood will be on their own heads."
Notice that in Leviticus 20:15 the man has to be caught
having sex with an animal in order for him to be put to
death. We have to be sure 100% beyond the shadow of the
doubt to kill him.
Notice however in Leviticus 20:16 that if a woman only
looks SUSPICIOUS and not necessarily get caught having
sex with an animal, she would still be put to death. We do
not have to be sure 100% beyond the shadow of the doubt
with her in order for us to kill her.
It is beyond question that Leviticus 20:15 and Leviticus
20:16 prove that the Bible prefers to put women to
death whenever an opportunity presents itself!
Also, who determines whether she was approaching the
animal for sex or not?
What ever happened to the "Beyond the shadow of the
doubt" court law!!
Further more in the Bible:
Genesis 3:12-16 "And the man (Adam) said, The woman
(Eve) whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the
tree, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the
woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman
said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the
LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done
this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every
beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust
shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity
between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and
her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his
heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy
sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring
forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and
he shall rule over thee."

Emusan: After you've already confirmed it yourself that those verses ARE PARABLES yet you still want him to defend them, this shows how little your brain works.

Again you said "THIS IS JUST AN ADDITION TO WHAT I POSTED ABOUT HOW WOMEN ARE TREATED IN THE BIBLE" but no verse quoted by you mention or single out WOMEN. can you see what Zakir Naik teaching has turned you to.

FUNNY MAN!.....SO PARABLE CANNOT BE INTERPRETED WELL U SHOULD HELP ME TO TRANSLATE THIS
First of all, as I mentioned above, the Bible allows beating
of people who commit wrong acts, and the fools:
1- The Concept of Beating in the Bible:
"Young people take pride in their strength, but
the gray hairs of wisdom are even more
beautiful. A severe beating can knock all of the
evil out of you! (From the Contemporary
English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 20:29-30) "
"Hatred stirs up trouble; love overlooks the
wrongs that others do. If you have good sense, it
will show when you speak. But if you are silly,
you will be beaten with a stick. If you have
good sense, you will learn all you can, but foolish
talk will soon destroy you. (From the
Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible,
Proverbs 10:12-14) "
"A curse you don’t deserve will take wings and fly
away like a sparrow or a swallow. Horses and
donkeys must be beaten and bridled— and so
must fools . Don’t make a fool of yourself by
answering a fool. (From the Contemporary
English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 26:2-4) "
Again, beating here is open for anyone who is deemed to
have evil in them, and/or is acting silly and is a fool.
The Bible doesn't object to the concepts of beating and
disciplining of any individual who is in the wrong, and
who is deemed to be deserving to it.
WHO TOLD YOU THAT I ONLY RELY ON ZAKR NAIK I MADE PERSONAL RESEARCH PLS JUST TRY TO DEFEND IT ABI.....U SAID BEATING WOMEN ARE NOT PERMITTED ........THE VERSE SAID ANYBODY SO U MEAN WHEN THE VERSE SAYS ANYBODY WOMEN ARE EXCLUDED?.......JUST EXPLAIN IT EVEN UR BRO KNEW THE TRUTH AND HE RAN AWAY WITH EXCUSE

cloudstar: You still haven't quoted one verse from the Bible where men are instructed to beat their wives. I am still waiting for you oh

U NEVR DEFEND THE ONE I POSTED ABOVE NW... ATLEAST I HAVE DEFEND THE VERSES AND HADITH YOU QUOTED FOR ME........... ABI U DIDNT READ IT SO OYA I DEY WAIT

cloudstar: Can you show me in the Bible where men are taught to beat their wives or women?

I HAVE ANSWERED IT NW.........READ MY EARLIER POSTS BUT AT LEAST THE VERSES U QUOTED IN TTHE QURAN U NOW UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE U MISQUOTED THE VERSE WELL! I DONT NEED U TO DEFEND MY EARLIER POSTS BECAUSE I KNOW U CANT DEFEND IT
THIS IS JUST AN ADDITION TO WHAT I POSTED ABOUT HOW WOMEN ARE TREATED IN THE BIBLE
"Young people take pride in their strength, but the gray
hairs of wisdom are even more beautiful. A severe
beating can knock all of the evil out of you! (From the
Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs
20:29-30) "
"Hatred stirs up trouble; love overlooks the wrongs that
others do. If you have good sense, it will show when you
speak. But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a
stick. If you have good sense, you will learn all you can,
but foolish talk will soon destroy you. (From the
Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs
10:12-14) "
"A curse you don’t deserve will take wings and fly away
like a sparrow or a swallow. Horses and donkeys must be
beaten and bridled— and so must fools . Don’t make a
fool of yourself by answering a fool. (From the
Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs
26:2-4) "
Beating here is open for anyone who is deemed to have
evil in them, and/or is acting stupid and is a fool. The
Bible doesn't object to the concepts of beating and
disciplining of any individual who is in the wrong, and
who is deemed to be deserving to it.
Parables about Beating:
"Athletes work hard to win a crown that cannot last, but
we do it for a crown that will last forever. I don’t run
without a goal. And I don’t box by beating my fists in the
air . I keep my body under control and make it my slave,
so I won’t lose out after telling the good news to others.
(From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, 1
Corinthians 9:25-27) "
"If that happens, the master will come on a day and at a
time when the servant least expects him. That servant will
then be punished and thrown out with the servants who
cannot be trusted. If servants are not ready or willing to
do what their master wants them to do, they will be
beaten hard . But servants who don’t know what their
master wants them to do will not be beaten so hard for
doing wrong. If God has been generous with you, he will
expect you to serve him well. But if he has been more than
generous, he will expect you to serve him even better.
(From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible,
Luke 12:46-48) "
Even though these are parables, but notice that beating
was a norm in the society. Yet, never was it directly
condemned, especially on wives! . Not only that, but we
find the beatings being ok even in parables in the
Bible.
First of all, as I mentioned above, the Bible allows beating
of people who commit wrong acts, and the fools:
1- The Concept of Beating in the Bible:
"Young people take pride in their strength, but
the gray hairs of wisdom are even more
beautiful. A severe beating can knock all of the
evil out of you! (From the Contemporary
English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 20:29-30) "
"Hatred stirs up trouble; love overlooks the
wrongs that others do. If you have good sense, it
will show when you speak. But if you are stupid,
you will be beaten with a stick. If you have
good sense, you will learn all you can, but foolish
talk will soon destroy you. (From the
Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible,
Proverbs 10:12-14) "
"A curse you don’t deserve will take wings and fly
away like a sparrow or a swallow. Horses and
donkeys must be beaten and bridled— and so
must fools . Don’t make a fool of yourself by
answering a fool. (From the Contemporary
English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 26:2-4) "
Again, beating here is open for anyone who is deemed to
have evil in them, and/or is acting stupid and is a fool.
The Bible doesn't object to the concepts of beating and
disciplining of any individual who is in the wrong, and
who is deemed to be deserving to it.

Dr. Chris T. R. Hewer ‘comes from a background in
Christian theology, education, Islamic studies and inter-
faith studies and has worked in the field of Muslims in
Britain and Christian-Muslim relations since 1986.’ Dr.
Chris T.R Hewer who is of Christian faith, is another in line
of respected experts commenting on the Quranic passage
4:34, he says:
“An adult woman has many rights within Islam that were
granted by the Qur’an and Hadith of Muhammad but for
which Western women have had to fight in the twentieth
century. Both men and women have an equal responsibility
to follow the Islamic way of life (Q. 33.35) . A Muslim
woman is allowed to own property in her own right and
dispose of it without reference to her husband. She
normally keeps her own name after marriage. She is
permitted to make her own will to dispose of her goods
after death. She has an entitlement to education at all
levels equal to that of a man. She is entitled to sexual
fulfilment. She has a right to engage in any profession or
business. She should be consulted in public affairs,
following the example of Muhammad who habitually sought
the opinion of some of the Muslim women before making a
decision. She has the right to keep and control her
earnings, it being the duty of the husband to meet all
domestic expenditure, house his family and educate his
children (Q. 4.34).
There are no grounds for her to be a domestic drudge, it
technically being the husband’s duty to see that hot food is
laid before his wife. The only duty laid upon a wife is to be
open to bear children, should God bless them, and to nurse
them when they are young, although even here a wet-nurse
can be retained. These are of course the ideals as provided
by Islamic law but the realities in Muslim families around
the world do not always follow these prescriptions.
Reference is often made to the verse of the Qur’an that
appears to allow a husband to beat his wife (Q. 4.34). The
context here is one of nushuz, a violation of duties on the
part of the religious wife. This verse of the Quran lays down
four steps to be taken, which may be seen as a correction
and limitation of pre-Islamic practices . First the man
should speak to his wife. If this fails, he should then refuse
sleep with her. Only if this fails to change her ways, is he
allowed a kind of symbolic humiliation by striking her with
his miswak, a piece of wood smaller than a pencil, the tip
of which is used for brushing the teeth . Even this is
considered inadvisable in some schools of Islam, and any
form of cruelty, including verbal abuse, is unanimously
forbidden . Should all this fail, then the couple should seek
arbitration within the family.” [5]
We can see & understand that God has commanded men to
protect their wives financially, physically and emotionally.
If the wife should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the
husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she
would cease this lewdness. If she still continues in this
indecency (rebellion), then he should no longer share the
bed with her. Also, if she still, deliberately continuous with
the same old behaviour, then the husband has the
command from the Quran to beat her lightly with a Miswak
(a small toothbrush). Finally, the critics false arguments,
trying to criticise the Quran, assuming that ‘Islam allows
wife abuse’ has thoroughly been refuted, using Muslim and
non-Muslim scholarly evidences against their fictitious
arguments. We get a clear picture that Islam in no way
advocates’ wife abuse. Islam has always taught “to love
your wife,” to feed them, to treat your wife with kindness,
as it will be shown in the following statements from
Prophet Muhammad (p):
Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri: “I went to the Apostle of
Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you
say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them
food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which
you clothe yourself, and do not beat them , and do not
revile them . (Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-
Nikah), Number 2139 recorded in Ibn Majah as well, and
others. Verified to be Authentic by Al- Albani, As sahihah
Number. 687).
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah’s
Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: “He who
believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any
matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet.
Act kindly towards woman , for woman is created from a
rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you
attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave
it, its crookedness will remain there. So act kindly towards
women .” (Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah),
Book 8, Number 3468)
Ghazzali’s Ihya Ulum-Id-Din, Marriage:
“The most perfect of believers in faith are those who are the
finest in manners and most gentle toward their wives.” [6]
References:
[1] Dispositions: Gazing Into the Amazing, Colorful, Global
Crystal of Human Life [2009] By Ahmed K. Nazir M.D. page
108
[2] Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Religion: Q-Z [Copyright
2005] Dr. Ramesh Chopra page 623
[3] What Everyone Needs to Know about Islam: Second
Edition [Copyright 2011] By John L. Esposito page 114 –
116

Quran 4:34 “Men are the protectors and maintainers of
women, because Allah has made one of them to excel
(strength) the other, and because they spend (to support
them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women
are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and
guard in the husband’s absence what Allah orders them to
guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband’s property, etc.). As
to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct,
admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds,
(and last) beat them (lightly), but if they return to
obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance).
Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”
The claim by critics that ‘the Quran sanctions wife abuse’,
that a man can beat her wife black and blue for
disobedience any-time he wants, is a complete lie.
Firstly, there is a serious sequence of events that has to
take place before a husband can lightly beat his wife. When
the word ‘beat’ is mentioned in the passage, it is meant in
a symbolic way, it is meant to emotionally make the wife
think, what she is doing is wrong. It is important to point
out that the verse starts off with that men are protectors of
women, it says: “Men are the protectors and maintainers of
women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the
other (strength).” It is also crucial to show the fact that the
Quran describes three steps to be taken, before a husband
can symbolically, ‘lightly beat’ her. The verse does not start
off with ‘beat her whenever she disobeys’. The main aim of
the passage is to prevent (restrain) a husband from using
violence against his wife.
1.Qawwamuna – ‘Protectors and maintainers’
The passage begins by stating that men are ‘protectors
and maintainers’ of women, this straight away throws the
false argument held by critics that men in Islam are
allowed to abuse their wives. Also I would like to highlight
that the verse does not denote that men are superior to
their wives. The Arabic word ‘qawwamuna’ used in the
start of the verse literally means that men are “protectors
and maintainers’.
Dr. Ahmed K. Nazir comments on the word
‘Qawwam’ (‘qawwamuna’) in his book, he says:
“Some quote the verse 4:34 (Men are the protectors and
maintainers of women…) to say that, in Islam, men are the
bosses of women. This phrase does not mean that men are
the rulers or commanders of women. As human beings,
Islam gives equal status to both men and women. This
phrase means that men are protectors of women and they
are responsible to spend of their property for the support of
women. The Arabic word ‘Qawwam’ (protectors) means
‘One who stands firm in another’s business, protects his
interests, and looks after his affairs: or it may be, standing
form in his own business, managing affairs, with a steady
purpose.’” [1]
Thus, the Arabic word ‘Qawwamanu’ only means, to guard,
protect, maintain, take-care of, not what uneducated
missionaries have assumed that ‘men are masters over
their wives.’ We shall now bring forth further evidence for
the Arabic word ‘Qawwamanu’.
Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Religion: Q-Z gives the
meaning for the Arabic word Qawwam, it says:
“Qawwam: Qawwam or qayyim is a person responsible for
administering or supervising the affairs of either an
individual or an organization, for protecting and
safeguarding them and taking care of their needs.” [2]
We can see that the word ‘Qawwamuna’ is someone who is
a ‘protector and maintainer’ for the wife, a man who is
financially responsible for the family. God Almighty has
assigned men the role, to be a maintainer and guardian of
the household, taking care of the wife’s needs-i.e, food on
the plate, clothing, shelter and protecting her physically
and emotionally when she is down. This just goes to show
that women in the Quran are treated with dignity, and
commanded by God that they be protected.
2. Arabic word ‘Nushuz’
Next, the word ‘nushuz’. Dr. Ahmed Shafaat, who is a
commentator of the Quran gives a thorough, detailed
explanation on the word. He writes:
“As for those women on whose part you fear nushuz…”
Before we go any further with the translation, it is
important to explain the meaning of the key word nushuz.
The literal meaning of the word is “rebellion” . But rebellion
against whom and in what sense? We should certainly not
think of this in terms the rebellion of the ruled against a
ruler in a sultanate or dictatorship and conclude that it
consists of the wife disobeying some of the husband’s
commands. This is because the same word nushuz is used
in case of a husband in verse 128 of the same surah 4,
where it is said: “If a woman fears nushuz on her
husband’s part…” So nushuz is something that can be
feared by the husband on the wife’s part or by the wife on
her husband’s part. It cannot therefore be understood in
terms of the ruler-ruled relationship. To correctly
understand the meaning of the word, it must be noted that
both in the verse under consideration and in verse 128 the
reference to nushuz is followed by a reference to the break-
up of the marriage (see vv. 35, 130). If this context is kept
in mind, then it becomes evident that nushuz means the
type of behaviour on the part of the husband or the wife
which is so disturbing for the other that their living together
becomes difficult .
Now the behaviour of a marriage partner can become
disturbing for the other in one of the following two ways:
1) There is no ill-will on the part of the offending party. It is
simply because of some incompatibility between the two or
the failure on the part of one to understand the other that
one of them finds some aspect of the other’s behaviour
disturbing.
2) One partner knowingly behaves or continues to behave
in a way which seriously disturbs the other partner. In this
case there is obviously an ill-will on the part of the first
partner towards the second.
Nushuz is only this second type of behaviour, for only a
deliberate ill-conduct based on ill-will can be described as
“rebellion”.
There is also a measure of relativeness about nushuz in
the sense that what constitutes nushuz in the eyes of one
person may not be so viewed by another. For this reason,
the judgment that one’s spouse has been guilty of nushuz
is partly a subjective and personal one. That is why the
verse says: “If you fear nushuz…” instead of for example,
“if you find nushuz….” In the Holy Qur’an “fearing” signifies
subjective but certain, knowledge or judgment about
something.
In short, nushuz is a behaviour on the part of one marriage
partner which comes out of ill-will and seriously disturbs
the other partner. ( Source)
3. Speaking to your wife (1) and then separating beds (2)
It is also important to highlight to everyone that, when a
wife is disobedient, who is seriously disturbing the peace in
marriage. The husband has to first speak to her with gentle
words, to bring her to her senses that, what she is doing is
wrong. When the verbal complaint to the wife is exhausted
and she continuous. Then the Quran commands the
husband to separate beds with her, depriving her of her
sexual needs.
4. Arabic word ‘Iddribunnah’
The Arabic word ‘Iddribunnah’ for chapter 4 verse 34, has
been by many critics, especially Anti-Islam propagandists
websites twisted, distorted. They assume that this word
sanctions (approves) of wife abuse. When the word
‘iddribunnah’ is used for the passage (Q 4:34), which
means ‘beat’ (lightly), this final step the husband takes,
that he beats (lightly) her. When one looks at the verse, in a
historical perspective, it has always meant in a symbolic
way. The husband is not allowed to hurt, bruise, break any
part of her body, must also avoid the face. Prophet
Muhammad (p) stated in his farewell pilgrimage:
“Treat women kindly, they are like captives in your hands;
you do not owe anything else from them. In case they are
guilty of open indecency, then do not share their beds and
beat them lightly but if they return to obedience , do not
have recourse to anything else against them . You have
rights over your wives and they have their rights over you.
Your right is that they shall not permit anyone you dislike
to enter your home, and their right is that you should treat
them well in the matter of food and clothing”. [At- Tirmidhi
Arabic/English book reference: Book 1, Hadith 276]
We see from the above narration the Prophet(p),
commanding Muslims that they treat they wives with
kindness. Also, the prophet (p) mentioned that, if a woman
is found to be ‘guilty of indecency’ that the husband should
separate his bed from his wife, depriving her of her sexual
needs. Then, if the wife continuous with the same old
behaviour, not changed, last resort ‘beat lightly’, touching
her in such a way as to not leave a mark, not to hurt her.
Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari who is one of
the earliest commentators of the Quran writes on Surah
4:34. Tabari who has a tradition going back to one of the
Companions of the Prophet (p), and explains the word
‘beat’, he says:
“I asked Ibn Abbas: ‘What is the hitting that is ghayr al-
mubarrih?’ He replied [with] the siwak (toothbrush like a
twig) and the like’. Narrated by al-Tabari in his tafsir (Dar
al-fikr reprint 5:68)
Furthermore Al-Razi (865 – 925 A.D.) who is a scholar
also comments on the verse:
Al-Razi (3:222) mentions that as a rule (a) it must be a
light beating and (b) the face must be avoided. He added
that certain Shafi’I jurists said “coiled scarf (mindil malfuf)
or his hand may be used but not a whip nor a stick.
From the evidences presented, it is abundantly clear that
the beat must be very light, that one has to use a Miswak
(toothbrush) or “coiled scarf”, as scholars mentioned it. It
is evident that the force utilised by a ‘folded scarf’ or a
‘miswak’ is, therefore, purely symbolic, it is in no way
meant to hurt her, it is more like a shock to wake her up. I
mentioned at the start of the article that, I will present non-
Muslim Scholarly evidences, who know about Islamic law
and the rights of women. Pay close attention to what they
have to say, regarding Quran 4:34.
John Louis Esposito (born May 19, 1940) is a professor of
International Affairs and Islamic Studies at Georgetown
University. Professor John L. Esposito is a Catholic
Christian he says in his book “What does Islam have to say
about domestic violence?” He writes:
“Domestic violence is a serious social problem in the West
and globally, and the Muslim world is no exception. Many
grass-roots movements and women’s organizations who
work to eradicate it through education for both men and
women emphasize Quranic teachings about the rights and
responsibilities of men and women and about marital
relations. In some Muslim societies, men use the Quran to
justify domestic violence. However, many verses in the
Quran teach that men and women are to be kind to and
supportive of each other. Love and justice in family
relationships are emphasized, and cruelty is forbidden .
Quran 30:21 states, ‘And among his signs is this, that He
created for you mates from among yourselves, that you
may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love
and mercy between your [hearts]: behold, verily in that are
signs for those who reflect.’ Quran 4:19 further commands,
‘O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women
against their will. Nor should you treat them with
harshness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of
kindness and equity. If you take dislike to them it may be
that you dislike a thing through which God brings about a
great deal of good. ’Chronologically, the last Quranic verse
to be revealed that addressed relations between husband
and wife was 9:71, in which women and men are described
as being each other’s protecting friends and guardians,
emphasizing their cooperation in living together as
partners, rather than adversaries or superiors and
subordinates. Likewise, the hadith (Prophetic traditions)
note Muhammad’s respect for and protection of women.
Muhammad said, ‘The best of you is he who is best to his
wife.’ Muhammad’s wife Aisha narrated that Muhammad
never hit any servant or woman and never physically struck
anyone with his own hand . Neither the Quran nor the
hadith record Muhammad as ever mistreating or losing
temper with any of his wives, even when he was unhappy
or dissatisfied . Those who use the Quran to justify wife-
beating point to 4:34, which says, ‘Good women are
obedient, guarding in secret that which God has guarded.
As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish
them, then banish them to beds apart and strike them. But
if they obey you, do not seek a way against them.’ In recent
years scholars have argued that ‘obedience’ refers to
women’s attitude toward God, not toward her husband.
Furthermore, obedience in this verse is tied to the women’s
guarding of her chastity, so that an obedient women is one
who does not commit sexual immorality. The word typically
translated as ‘disobedience’ (Nushuz) refers to disruption
of marital harmony in which one spouse fails to fulfil the
required duties of marriage . It is applied elsewhere in the
Quran to bother men and women. The end of the verse
admonishes men not to mistreat women who obey them.
Rather than granting men the right to strike their wives,
reformers argue, this verse reminds men of their
responsibility to treat women fairly. Quran 4:34 lists three
methods to be used in resolving marital disputes. First
comes admonition or discussion between the husband and
wife alone or with the assistance of arbiters. This practice,
also recommended by 4:35 and 4:128, is also to be used
for couples considering divorce. If this fails, the second
option is physical separation, sleeping in separate beds,
which gives the couple space for cooling off and thinking
about the future of their marital relationship. The third and
final method is to strike or hit. The striking takes the
singular form grammatically, so that only a single strike Is
permissible. Quran 4:34 was revealed early In the Medinan
period of Muhammad’s ministry, a time and place in which
cruelty and violence against women remained rampant.
Thus some Muslim scholars today argue that the single
strike permitted in this verse was intended as a restriction
on an existing practice, not as a recommended method for
dealing with one’s wife.
In the major hadith collections- Muslim, Bukhari, Tirmidhi,
Abu Daud, Nasai, and Ibn Majah- hadith about striking all
emphasize that striking should be done in such a way AS
NOT TO CAUSE PAIN OR HARM. THESE SOURCES TRESS
STRESS THAT IN CASES WHERE A SINGLE STRIKE IS
USED, IT SHOULD BE MERELY SYMBOLIC . The founder of
the Shafii law of school maintained that it is preferable to
avoid striking altogether. Despite the fact that domestic
violence continued to exist in male-dominated cultures and
to be legitimated in the name of religion, neither the
majority of Quranic verses nor the hadith support or permit
it.” [3]
Rev. Dr. Ira Gilbert Zepp, Jr., professor emeritus of the
Religious Studies department at McDaniel College, also
comments on the Quranic passage 4:34, he says the
following:
“The husband is the head of the household, is the final
authority, and has due obedience and cooperation from his
wife. If the wife is rebellious or disobedient, there are
several options open to the husband. He may first try
dissuade her with kind and gentle reasoning. If this fails,
he may then refrain from sleeping with her. And if the
above are not effective, he has Quranic permission to ‘beat
her lightly’ (4:34).
Such ‘slight physical correction’ (as Yusuf Ali says) avoids
her face and other sensitive areas. Striking your wife in the
face (as was pictured in the film Not without my Daughter)
and other forms of verbal and physical cruelty have no
sanction in the Quran .
Many Muslims feel that although permitted, such activity is
not advisable and is the exception much more than the
rule. If all else fails, the next verse (4:35) suggests the
couple seek help and counsel from a mediator. Perhaps the
disagreement between husband and wife can be resolved
in this open, balanced and neutral way.” [4]

YOU ARE STILL ASKING ME OF THE ERSE IN THE BIBE ABOUT BEATING WOMEN I GUESS YOU DIDDNT READ ALL MY POST BECAUSE IF YOU READ IT YOU SHOULD JUST BURY YOUR HEAD IN SHAME BECAUSE IT IS VERY WORST.........AND I EXPECT U TO DEFEND THEM AS I HAVE ALWAYS SAID I DONT REALLY EXPECT U TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS BECAUSE I CERTAINLY KNOW THAT YOU CAN NEVER ANSWER THEM
AND I WILL ALWAYS ANSWER YOURS
QURAN CHAPTER 38 VS 44
PLS READ IT FRM VERSE 41
1:34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).1:41 Commemorate Our Servant Job. Behold he cried to his Lord: "The Evil One has afflicted me with distress and suffering!"1:42 (The command was given "Strike with thy foot: here is (water) wherein to wash, cool and refreshing, and (water) to drink."1:43 And We gave him (back) his people, and doubled their number,- as a Grace from Ourselves, and a thing for commemoration, for all who have Understanding.1:44 "And take in thy hand a little grass, and strike therewith: and break not (thy oath)." Truly We found him full of patience and constancy. How excellent in Our service! ever did he turn (to Us)!1:45 And commemorate Our Servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, possessors of Power and Vision.1:46 Verily We did choose them for a special (purpose)- proclaiming the Message of the Hereafter.1:47 They were, in Our sight, truly, of the company of the Elect and the Good.
SO AS YOU CAN SEE THE VERSES ARE TALKING ABOUT THE STRESS WENT THROUGH BY PROPHETS OF ALLAH
THEN WHY DID U EVEN WRONGLY QUOTE VERSE 44 SELF
CONCERNING THE HADITH YOU QUOTED HERE IS THE EXPLANATION

Answer to the mistranslation:
The term used in the hadith is:
Imam Nawawi in his Sharh states that:
The word "lahada" according to the lexicographers means, "to
push" (dafa'a).
The usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation . Rather,
the phrase should be translated as (as Gf haddad said):
- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore
Secondly, this calls to an important matter that is related to the
Hand imposition of the Prophet - Allah bless him - because it is a
gesture associated with driving away evil influence (waswâs) and
conferring blessing as the following reports show:
1. Ubay ibn Ka`b said: "There occurred in my mind a sort of denial
which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the
Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - saw how I was affected,
he slapped me on the chest. I broke into a sweat and felt as if I were
looking at Allâh in fear."
(Sahih Muslim)
2. Jarir ibn Abdullah Al Bajalî was sent by the Prophet - Allah bless
him - on a mission to destroy Dhu Al Kahalasa, the idol-house of
Khatham, nicknamed the Yemenite Kaba. Jarr narrates:
"I went along with a hundred and fifty horsemen but I could not sit
steadily on horse. I mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless
and greet him - who then struck his hand on my chest so hard that I
could see the trace of his fingers on it, saying: 'O Allah! Grant him
steadfastness and make him a guide of righteousness and a rightly-guided
one!' (Bukhari and Muslim)
More proof that the correct translation is
‘He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore’
Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) said: "Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu
'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except
when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant
or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it
Saheeh.]
Wife-beating can’t be considered "in the Cause of Allaah" - the
reference in the Hadeeth is a reference to Jihaad on the battlefield.
"When the prohibitions of Allaah were violated" is a reference to
someone committing a crime, and their being tried and then punished
by flogging. This is not a reference to the way a husband should treat
his wife.
So here we clearly see in a sahih (authentic) hadith that Aisha clearly
told that the prophet ‘never hit a servent or a women’.
So this is also a clear proof that The usage of the word "struck" is not a
correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as Gf
haddad said):
- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore

yazach: Mr. ironical truthman2012!! you are here displaying your ignorance again
By the way have been able to bail your self out of this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1866203/people-hate-jesus-love-muhammad or you run away
By the time these able, competent, truthful and respected Muslims bombard you with undisputable evidences you will start singing your dead song that "your post it too much to read, i will not answer you again etc" like you did on this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1866203/people-hate-jesus-love-muhammad

............THAT IS WHAT HE ALWAYS SAID INFACT HE HAVE RUN AWAY FROM MANY OF MY THRED ALSO......WHAT THEY DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE ONLY WAY OF LIFE ACCEPTED TO GOD IS ISLAM.....JAZAK BRO LETS CONTNUE TOENLIGHTEN THEM MORE

Deuteronomy 22:28-30 "If a man happens to meet a virgin
who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they
are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of
silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He
can never divorce her as long as he lives."
(This verse was taken from the NIV Bible. The NIV Bible is
the most trusted and used Bible among Trinitanian
Christians. Many other authors of other bibles were
ashamed of this verse and changed the words "rapes her"
to words like "lay hold on her" or "seizes her and lies
down with her" . Other Bibles like the WE Bible removed
this verse completely, which is a total corruption !.)
One must ask a simple question here, who is really
punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman
who was raped? What is to prevent someone from finding
the best looking woman in town, raping her, telling
everyone about it, and then having the courts force her to
be his wife for the rest of her life?
We all hear about "date rapes" here in the US and Europe.
If the Christian groups from the "Army of God" who blow
abortion clinics in the US, or the owners of
www.godhatesfags.com ever rule their churches over the
state, then we will see things such as men brutally raping
the women they sexually desire the most on their dates,
then take these women to court and sue them and prove
that they raped them. Then marry them by force, and
continue raping them for the rest of their natural life.
This might sound harsh and mean to you, but in reality, it
is all allowed in the Bible, and this is how it would be if the
church from the Fundamentalist Christians rule over the
state. In the middle centuries, women in the Christian
societies had absolutely no value !!. They were only sex
objects controlled and played with by their masters, the
men.
Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his
daughter as a slave girl , she will not go out in the way
that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes
of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a
concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be
entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously
dealing with her."
Here in this verse we can see that fathers can easily and
freely sell their daughters as slaves to other men. The
other men are free to rape the daughters if they wish to do
so.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "And in case men struggle together
(in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has
come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one
(to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand
and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin) ,
she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of
the men must feel no sorrow. "
One has to ask himself a very simple question here: Why
should the wife who is trying to save her husband from
brutal beating by another man get both her hands cut off?
and why should we not have any mercy on her? Does this
sound inspired from God to you? Be honest with yourself.
Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she
profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her
father: she shall be burnt with fire. "
Why a priests daughter be burnt in fire just because her
father is a priest if she decides to act like a LovePeddler? Is this
fair? Should it make a difference whether or not a girl's
father is a priest or not?
Ecclesiastes 25:22 "Of the woman came the beginning of
sin, and through her we all die." (from the Catholics
Bible) Women in the Bible are considered evil !!!.
Ecclesiasticus 22:3 "....and the birth of ANY daughter is a
loss" (From the New Jerusalem Bible. It's a Roman
Catholics Bible); Roman Catholics today form more than
75% of the Christians population throughout the world.
Why should the Bible give stupid (with all respect to you)
generalizing statements like that about ALL women?
Leviticus 12:2-5 , if a woman gives birth to a baby boy, then
she becomes unclean for 7 days. But if she gives birth to a
baby girl, then she becomes unclean for 14 days. This
verse is another proof that women in the Bible are disliked
to be born !.
Ecclesiastics 7:26-28 "And I find more bitter than death
the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and
whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will
escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare....while I was
still searching but not finding, I found one upright man
among a thousand but not one upright woman among
them all". The Bible claims that it is impossible to find a
single good woman among a thousand women.
Let us examine the following two verses from the book
Leviticus:
Let us look at Leviticus 20:15 "If a man has sexual
relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and
you must kill the animal."
Let us look at Leviticus 20:16 "If a woman approaches an
animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the
woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their
blood will be on their own heads."
Notice that in Leviticus 20:15 the man has to be caught
having sex with an animal in order for him to be put to
death. We have to be sure 100% beyond the shadow of the
doubt to kill him.
Notice however in Leviticus 20:16 that if a woman only
looks SUSPICIOUS and not necessarily get caught having
sex with an animal, she would still be put to death. We do
not have to be sure 100% beyond the shadow of the doubt
with her in order for us to kill her.
It is beyond question that Leviticus 20:15 and Leviticus
20:16 prove that the Bible prefers to put women to
death whenever an opportunity presents itself!
Also, who determines whether she was approaching the
animal for sex or not?
What ever happened to the "Beyond the shadow of the
doubt" court law!!
Further more in the Bible:
Genesis 3:12-16 "And the man (Adam) said, The woman
(Eve) whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the
tree, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the
woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman
said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the
LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done
this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every
beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust
shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity
between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and
her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his
heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy
sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring
forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and
he shall rule over thee."

Women in Christianity and Islam:
We Muslims are well aware of the fact that Muslim women
are objects of derision and mockery especially in the
Western world. Women in Islam are portrayed to be
"oppressed" and "inferior" by many Westerners.
However, most of the Westerners I've heard this from are
usually Christian. It is amazing how many verses the
Christian bible has which supports Islamic treatment of
women, among other issues. Here is a small list I would
like to share with all of you. Please memorize it and
defend the truth from those who make a mockery out of it!
You will also know that the christian bible degrades the
female sex!
---------------------
ARE WOMEN OPPRESSED IN ISLAM?
----------------------------
Islam: Women must cover their heads as a sign of
"modesty." It also serves as protection for the female.
Christianity: 1 CORINTHIANS 11:3-10 in the christian bible
orders women to cover their heads in prayers. These
verses further state that the male doesn't have to cover
his head because "female was made from male, and the
male not from the female." It further states that a woman
covering her head is a sign of male "authority."
Conclusion: Islam and Christianity both tell women to
cover their heads.
The main difference, however, is that women in Islam
cover their heads for purposes of "modesty." Christian
women cover their heads as a sign of "male authority." It
is clear that the bible gives women an inferior status,
whereas Islam doesn't.
--------------------------------
Islam: Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) were
EQUALLY responsible for eating from the "forbidden
tree." They both repented and were forgiven by the Most-
Forgiving and Most-Merciful Allahu ta'ala.
Christianity: Eve ate from the "forbidden tree" BEFORE
Adam did. Adam ate from the tree AFTER Eve did. The
woman was deceived FIRST. Because of EVE causing
Adam to sin by eating from the forbidden tree, the ground
is "cursed." God doesn't forgive them, but damns them
and humanity -- thanks to Eve (the woman)! ALL females
go through "pains of childbearing" as a punishment from
God -- because of EVE'S sin. All males have to go through
pains of eating from the ground, thanks to EVE. ALL
babies are born in SIN, thanks to EVE. All of this can be
found in GENESIS 2:4-3:24.
"Adam was not decieved but the woman was" (1 TIMOTHY
2:11-14)
"Woman will be ruled over by the male" (GENESIS 3:16)
In other words, thanks to a FEMALE, we are damned!
It is clear that in Christianity, the very first woman is
blamed for wrongdoing, but not the very first male.
------------------------------------
Islam: Quran orders us that we should not "bury
daughters alive."
Christianity: -"The birth of a daughter is a
loss" (ECCLESIASTICUS 22:3, Catholic Bible)
- Ritual impurity of a mother is TWICE as long if a female
is born and not a male. (LEVITICUS 12:2-5)
Is it not clear that Islam again gives a higher status to
females? What Islam came to eradicate -- the bad
treatment of females -- still continues in today's Protestant
and Catholic scriptures.
---------------------------------------
ISLAM: Women can talk in the mosque.
CHRISTIANITY: -"It is a shame for women to talk in the
church." (1 CORINTHIANS 14:34-35)
If females cannot talk, then how are they supposed to
learn? Again, it is obvious that Islam gives the female a
higher status than the bible does.
-----------------------------------------
ISLAM: If the husband dies, then the wife may marry
another male by choice.
CHRISTIANITY: If the husband dies without impregnating
the wife, then the "brother" of the dead husband MUST
marry his wife. The female CANNOT marry anyone else,
but ONLY her dead husband's brother (DEUTERONOMY
25:5).
Islam gives the woman a choice to marry or not, and to
whom she want to marry, if her husband dies. In
Christianity (and Judaism), the woman has NO CHOICE,
but to marry her dead husband's brother. It is clear which
religion is oppressing women.

cloudstar: You are not making any sense Bros - in a debate, we tackle agreed upon topics. If you have claims and you want us to debate them; when we respond; please tackle our response and don't post the same thing.

Islam is what it is - Boko Haram, ISIS, wife beating, child marriage, shia and Sunni fighting and killing one another.

I TACKLED UR RESPONSE BECAUSE WHAT I BELIEVE IS THAT IF U CAN READ WHAT IPOSTED VERY WELL IF U CAN READ IT IN BETWEEN THE LINE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING...........AND EVEN IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A PERSON WHO IS NOT GOOD IN DEBATE IT SHOULD BE YOU BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION BUT YOU NEVER ANSWER MINE

CHECK MY SIGNATURE THAT IS ENOUGH TO TACKLE BOKO HARAM AND ISIS
Islam commands justice and kindness towards women:
"O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to take women as heritage against (their) will. Nor
should you straiten them by taking part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty
of manifest indecency. And treat them kindly. Then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike
a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.4:19 (The Women)
In the above verse, Allah tells the Muslims that they cannot treat women like slaves, but must
act justly with them. The verse enjoins Muslims to treat women kindly and warns them that they
may hate a woman when Allah has “placed abundant good”, in her. Muslims are to be just kind
to women and they must be careful not to underestimate the worth of women because of
imperfections that are made up for by their much greater good traits. Muslims are not to exploit
women, be cruel to them nor take them for granted. These are the commands of Allah to “you
who believe.”
Relationship between the believing men and women:
“ And the believers, men and women are friends of one another. They enjoin good and
forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. As
for these Allah will have mercy on them, Surely Allah is Mighty, Wise."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.9:71
Both Holy Qur'an and Authentic Hadith support kind treatment of women:
Other than the verse of the Holy Qur’an commanding kind treatment towards women, there are
also hadith on the subject matter.
“ The most perfect of the believers in faith is the best of them in moral excellence, and the best
of you are the kindest of you to their wives. ( TR. 10:11 )
“ Accept my advice in the matter of doing good to women.” ( BU. 67:81 ).
Muslim (15:19) has this hadith about the Farewell Pilgrimage address:
“ O my people! You have certain rights over your wives and so have your wives over you---
They are the trust of Allah in your hands, so you must treat them with all kindness.”
" Admonish your wives with kindness."
(Page 790, 8500 Precious Gems, Allahdin Publications)
“ A person who ill-treats his wife during the day and loves her at night, acts in complete
contradiction of the beauty of human nature.”
( Page 801, 8500 Precious Gems, - Allahdin Publications)
" Woman is fragile like glass, and men should therefore treat women with delicacy and
tenderness as they would handle an article made of glass."
( Page 801, 8500 Precious Gems, Allahdin Publications)
“The more civil and the kinder is a Muslim to his wife, the more perfect of faith he has; fear God
with reference to two meek beings, woman and orphan.”
The Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, stressed kindness and
good treatment of wives. This is an echo of the Holy Qur’an, in the verse mentioned in the
beginning, as well as others:
“keep them in good fellowship, or let them go in kindness (2:229 )------“Retain them in kindness,
or set them free in kindness, and retain them not for injury.” ( 2:231 )
Overwhelmingly, the Holy Qur’an and authentic hadith command kind treatment of women, yet
there is one verse in the Holy Qur’an that has been taken to advocate the mistreatment of
women, especially by Non-Muslim critics.
The Holy Qur’an states:
“And as to those on whose part you fear desertion ( nushuz ), admonish them, and leave
them alone in the beds and chastise (wadribu-root dharaba ) them. So if they obey you, seek
not a way against them. Surely, Allah is ever Exalted, Great.” Ch.4:34
“ And If you fear a breach between the two, appoint an arbiter from his people and an arbiter
from her people. If they both desire agreement, Allah will effect harmony between them.
Surely Allah is ever Knowing, Aware.” Ch. 4:35
Obviously all the measures from admonishment to marriage counseling mentioned here are
attempts to save a marriage that is in danger of dissolution. If the chastisement in this verse
means beating one’s wife to an inch of her life, it is hard to see how that would contribute to
rejuvenating the marriage. On the contrary, it probably would destroy the marriage, by making
the wife hate her husband. It could end, the husband as well as the marriage; more than one
abused wife has killed her husband, or mutilated him. This is very bad advice and the Holy Qur’
an does not give bad advice.
The word, ‘Dharaba ’ (chastise), does not suggest repetitive or intense beating:
The word, “ Dharaba ”, translated as “chastise”, is in the singular, so only one strike is allowed.
Page 106 If (2 R’s or R’s rather than one) “ Dharraba ”, had been used, it would have meant to
strike repeatedly on intensely. That word was not used in this verse. “ Dharaba ”, can mean also
“to set an example.”
Asma Barlas quotes Amina Wadud that this verse,” should be read as prohibiting unchecked
violence against females. Thus this is not a permission, but a severe restriction of existing
practices.” ("Believing Women" in Islam', Asma Barlas, . U. of Tx. Press, Austin, 2002.)
The chastising mentioned in the verse apparently was symbolic, a way for the husband to
express his displeasure for serious misconduct on the part of the wife. Barlas writes that,
“Tradition holds that the gesture should not cause pain. Hence some exegetes favor using a
folded handkerchief. She notes that ‘dharaba ’ also means to prevent further gross misbehavior
by making clear the husband’s unhappiness with his wife’s behavior.” ( Page 188, Barlas)
Ibn Abbas, a companion of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said
that the chastisement could be with a toothbrush, or something similar. The Holy Prophet,
according to Tirmidhi (10:11 ) said, “ You have a right in the matter of your wives that you do
not allow anyone whom you not like to come in to your houses. If they do this, chastise them in
such a manner that it should not leave an impression.”
When some women complained of their husbands ill treating them, the Prophet, said,
according to Abu Daud (12:42) , “ You will not find these men as the best among you.”
John Esposito writes, “ Muhammad’s wife Aisha narrated that, “Muhammad never physically
struck anyone with his own hand. Neither the Qur’an nor the Hadith record Muhammad as ever
mistreating or losing his temper with any of his wives, even when he was unhappy or
dissatisfied.” (Page 106, Esposito 'What everyone needs to know about Islam', 2002)
In the major hadith collections---hadith about striking, all emphasize that striking should be
done in such a way as not to cause pain or harm. The Founder of the Shafi Law School
maintained that it is preferable to avoid striking altogether. Despite the fact that domestic
violence continued to exist in male dominated cultures and to be legitimated in the name of
religion, neither the majority of Quranic verse, nor the hadith support or permit it. (Page 107,
Esposito)

mustang44: You provided no evidence! Muslims are just trying to connect Muhammad to Abraham through Ishmael by all means to gain acceptance from the christians and the jews. Ishmael was not the father of arabians period. Another lie of muslims is to say that all prophets are muslims. Even Ishmael was not a muslim Or arabian. finally, stop copying and pasting.

YOUR EVIDENCE FOR ALL THIS U SAID........IF YOU CANT QUOTE EVIDENCE FOR ME PLS DONT QUOTE ME AGAIN OR IF U CANT GIVE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE AGINST MY CLAIM.........I ONLY ARGUE WITH EVIDENCE

eyeopener: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews." -- Sahih Muslim 6985

"Allah's Apostle said, The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say: 'O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him'."Sahih Bukhari 4.52.177:

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah not the Last Day........(Surah 9:29).

What is the Jews offence as they believe in one God too?

“We look at events in the light of the Qur ’an and the
hadiths. But one cannot issue a pronouncement on the
basis of one single verse in the Qur ’an . One must look at
the verses as a whole. The same applies to the hadiths . The
other hadiths complement one another. Therefore , if
someone comes and tells us , ‘ There is a Jew here , come
and kill him ,’ we will not kill him. Why should we ? That
person would have to commit a crime. And if he commits a
crime he will have to be tried . And the judge will pronounce
sentence at the end of the trial . There is a whole system
and legal procedure involved . It does not mean that anyone
who sees him can kill him and try him himself . We can see
what this hadith means by looking at others. Otherwise , it
is a sin to kill an innocent Jew, a person, a child , standing
there, and heed a voice from a stone telling us to kill them .
That is unacceptable . We must grasp what our Prophet
( saas ) really means . It would appear the hadith means this :
Jews who are atheists or enemies of religion cannot hide .
Those who hide among wood or stones will be located using
all kinds of electrical devices and equipment, and the evil
and activities of these people will thus be prevented, and
that will be a punishment for them. That is what the hadith
may be implying
In addition , Jews are people given protection in the time of
our Prophet ( saas ) and who followed Muslims. The
compassion and justice shown by the Prophet (saas ) in the
light of the Qur’ an, acted as a role model for subsequent
Muslim rulers . Allah says in the Qur’an , ". .. Do not let
hatred for a people incite you into not being just . Be just .
That is closer to taqwa ” (Surat al -Ma’ida , 8 ) . Allah also
commands Muslims to ensure the safety even of the
idolaters (pagans who do not heed Allah ’s revelation) : "If
any of the idolaters ask you for protection, give them
protection until they have heard the words of Allah. Then
convey them to a place where they are safe . .. ." (Surat at-
Tawba , 6 ) A Muslim will therefore uphold justice, for Allah’s
sake, in the face of anyone and everyone and will only seek
solutions to all matters as revealed in the Qur ’an

eyeopener: You don't know what you are saying at all.

Allah's command to fight the people of the Scripture includes the Jews and not Christians alone.

What is the offence of the Jews who do not worship Jesus but believe in one God and yet they are to be fought?

Allah is to be suspected o!

YOUR EVIDENCE PLS OR REFERENCE?

[quote author=eyeopener][/quote]I HAVE ALREADY ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR U BEFORE BUT I WILL CONTINUE EXPOSING U
QURAN 109 WAS REVEALED TO THE PROPHET WELL THE IDOLATORS SAID THEY WILL WORSHIP GOD IF AND ONLY IF MUHAMMAD WILL WORSHIP THEIR IDOLS that is when the verse was revealed and it goes thus
1:1 Say : O ye that reject Faith!1:2 I worship not that which ye worship,1:3 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.1:4 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,1:5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.1:6 To you be your Way, and to me mine.
ALL VERSES IN THE QURAN ARE REVEALED WITH REASON

mustang44: Dont even try to make it look as if Ishmael is the father of all arabians or Ishmael built arabia. Arabia has beign in existence and populated for many years before Ishmael was even conceived. Ishmael is not the father of Arabs or
the Arabians, it existed before he was
ever born. Pple came from different places to populate arabia too. Let me tell you, there is no proof that Muhammad was a descendant of Ismeal.

AFTER ALL THE EVIDENCE I PROVIDED.......WHAT A BIAS MIND!........EVERYTHING I POSTED IS WITH EVIDENCE IN FACT TO ME IT MORE SOPHISTICATED I GIVE U EVIDENCE FROM AN ENCYCLOPEDIA WEBSITE........SO FOR U TO PROVE ME WRONG U MUST HAVE A SOUND REFERENCE FOR IT OR ELSE IT WILL BE TAGGED AS NULL AND VOID

cloudstar: Debating you is useless - you have no clue about your own Islamic history

YEAH BECAUSE U CAN NEVER HIDE THE TRUTH ALL WHAT I POSTED IS WITH REFERENCE SO NO LOOPHOLE EXCEPT IF U WILL DERAIL AND I AM EQULLY READY.........INDEED ISLAM HAS BEEN PERFECTED BY GOD