₦airaland Forum

codemaniacs:
you said "there was money in these days and it ranged from cowries, manillas, iron sheathes and leather strings."....

what do Africans who have gold, diamonds, emeralds and other rare gems and metals in their land want to do with "cowries, manillas, iron sheathes and leather strings" do you know how stupid that sounds

the brits/e:uropeans hated and still hate Africans, why will they trade with people they hate and wanted and still want to kill off

why will they sell weapons to Africans when those weapons can be against them

Africans were and are very tribal, in that era they will attack and enslave people of the same ethnicity and people of other ethnicities because there was mutual respect and understanding...

They did use those as money they didn’t use those gems and emeralds etc. As money they used those in their artefacts and as designs for their palace, go and research some history and see what I mean

jln115:
You never heard of the southern Nigerian slave trade?..........just google it bro!!

I did and it only talked about 1885-1959

jln115:
OMG you are ret@rded!! Slavery existed in Africa centuries before the trans Atlantic slave trade was even a thing!! even the Southern Nigerian slave trade existed long before the Trans Atlantic slave trade!

Slavery existed but nothing the form of the Atlantic slave trade, in Africa slavery happened when they beat others in war, and these people refused to assimilate into the empire like they renounced the king if they accepted him then they wouldn’t be enslaved there was no southern Nigeria slave trade prove it to me, they never traded slaves before the Europeans came they fought each other in wars every now and then and took slaves from the empire but in most cases the people either became warriors for the kingdom, farmers for the kingdom gave the peopl knowledge or were actually slaves because they had no skills and refused to join the empire

More artefacts

Some of the Benin bronzes beautiful arts from Nigeria from 1400s - 1890s, last picture is a Yoruba oil lamp that they kept in houses gotta rep the ancestors. But this was replicated across most of southern Nigeria and it was often much larger and were hung onto large metal poles in the main cities and in the villages large wooden poles

Jln115 ur dead as a liar slave trade started in the 15th century with foreign European countries kidnapping black people, then they moved onto educating them and making them think that the whites were superior so they would pick up arms against their own people, they would then lead their own people onto these ships and then the cycle continued until they were able to convince even kings to give up their own people all though the major empires never gave into this.

At least there was no slavery in southern nigeria there is a difference between paying people to clean your house and full on slavery

jln115:
SMH..........Ignorance is bliss!!

Show us this evidence please, and I’m talking about the trans Atlantic slave trade there was no slavery before that happened

jln115:
fvcking delusional you sound like the Kenyans and there fairy tale conspiracy theories

Actually in this case I’m not fully sure and don’t compare me with flat earthears that’s an insult sorry for the bad spelling not sure how to spell them

codemaniacs:
Lagos used to be called Oko ( which means farm in yoruba )... it was not and has never been a "newly discovered area", it was a heavily guarded farm settlement, it was so heavily guarded that when the binis came to buy food and other products from there the binis called Eko ( which means war camp in bini )..

slave trade did not happen anywhere in Africa, there were no poor people in Africa and there was also no form of "money" as a means of trading...

Africa is where the natural resources are the british would have needed Africans to extract the natural resources for them so why will the british sell " able bodied slaves " to another continent when the resources they need are in Africa

stop peddling lies about Nigeria... the yorubas fought the british and the igbos, efik also fought the british...

Nigeria only signed a peace agreement with the british in the early 1900s and that's when the fighting against the british reduced and stopped...

Lagos was a slave trad export in the early 1600s and late 1800s the British used to buy slaves from there before it became a war camp the British went there to collect slaves from the chiefs, there was money in these days and it ranged from cowries, manillas, iron sheathes and leather strings. Don’t come with that there was no money nonsense poverty wasn’t really a concept I agree with thst but there was money and the British would give these poor chiefs lots of cowries and weapons to collect more slaves

jln115:
So not West Africa anymore but Lagos more goal post shifting.

Also FYI the Southern Nigerian slave trade existed long before Europeans arrived in Africa!!

Evidence please I’ve never heard of this slave trade you speak and we’re talking about west Africa but the brunt of this slave trade happened in Lagos what goalpost is being shifted

Ideadoctor:
so if God bless you and grant you great mansions, great houses,you would not look for a servant? you are funny bro

Why is everything about god blessing you, god bless me with this god bless me with that, and also there is a difference between voluntary labour, if you are rich you would pay the person to clean your house, in the terms of the Bible they took these people against their will like people from minority tribes because they felt they were inferior and they kept these people as slaves

Also the top two richest men in the world bill gates and Elon musk are both atheists so not everything is about gods blessings

tylann:
Who banned you

Antispam bot or something

Ideadoctor:
so where is the oppression from the verse you quoted just now? or is it not ethical or normal for the servant to be obedient to the master? that is not a valid point, give me another one.

How is it not valid why should someone even be kept as a servant does that not show oppression especially if they were forced into it that is wrong and unjust but of course your justifying it things like slavery shouldn’t be the norm and they weren’t the norm in Western Africa oike in Oyo, ile ife, bini, nri etc. Until the British came and offered poor people arms, money and influence to give them slaves things like slavery and forced labour shouldn’t be normalised ever,

Ideadoctor:
there are two ancient Bible manuscript that were discovered lately, and fortunately, it is the exact copy of the one we used today, king James translated the Bible from Latin to English, he did not rewrite, nor did he tamper with the contents.

As far as I am concerned Christmas is the day of birth of Jesus, and in as much as my conscience bear me witness to it,then it doesn't matter.

See that’s the problem with Christianity and Islam it just stops you people from thinking, doing any research thst even shows one inconsistency in the Bible and you suddenly say as far as I’m concerned or I don’t care or I don’t believe you, Christmas is not a Christina holiday it doesn’t even originate from the Bible, and you said I only bear witness to the Bible meaning that it can’t have been created by a man because otherwise that isn’t from the Bible and therefore is false also the Bible was written by multiple different men and the church is controlled by multiple different men so what’s the problem

I was banned yesterday but now I’m back for the debate if I go missing again just now that nairaland hates people who revels the truth about Nigeria and Africa’s history they are owned and bankrolled by racist whites I think at least.

jln115:
shifting the goal posts now I see so not Africa anymore but West Africa??

So we going to ignore the massive slave trade in Southern Nigeria pre colonisation ?....

Technically this slave trade your talking about only happen in the south west of Nigeria and if I’m honest from the start as a west African man I have been focusing on west Africa becuase that’s where my knowledge is anyway, it was mainly only happening in Lagos, Lagos was just a newly discovered area with just a few poor chiefs and they wanted more money and influence which is what the British promised them, so they started to kidnap traders and soldiers who were from neighbouring areas just to get some money which was a massive problem but in the larger kingdoms of ile ife, Oyo and Benin they were not as involved as the British were not even close. Also Calabar slave trade post they paid Nigerians to go and fetch slaves the same thing thst happened in kagos happened here poor people looking for money and influence.

SUFFERInSMILIIN:
Nigerian governor blames Christianity for boko Haram and says Christians are behind boko Haram and the one controlling boko Haram

I like how you can’t interpret simple english he said Christians are also members as well as Muslims meaning it is both a Christian and Muslim problem meaning it is a Nigerian problem not an Islamic one. Shut the Bleep up and go and learn some basic English.

IGpro1:
yet a Christian deacon move the motion to stop slavery before it was abolished world wide. Young man don't dabble into what is beyond you..
I wish you well in your faith.

Yet more than 95% of slave owners were Christians, people who sailed the ships Christians, business men Christians, rapist who raped our women, Christians don’t bring one man who chose to change something all of the people who started and ended slavery were Christians and they only ended it due to new inventions which made human labour obsolete had nothing to do with their religion

IGpro1:
when Daniel told king Nebuchadnezzar his dream and interpreted the same, he made oblation to Daniel,offer sacrifices to Daniel and called him a god.

When Paul through the power of holyspirit healed a man in Lyconia, they sacrificed to him and called him a god by the name Mercury.

Guess what, the Bible calls us gods, ruled by one God yaweh.

I have one question for you, WHERE DOES HUMAN LIFE END. WHERE WILL THE EVIL PEOPLE GO AND WHERE WILL THE GOOD PEOPLE GO.?

I don’t care about all of these fairy tales from the Bible when you die you go back to the source of life any more questions

IGpro1:
you've said it all, the evil that came into existence through those practices are mind twisting... I'm from a royal family, both paternal and maternal, when I hear of some past events, I weep sometimes. Visit the fetish market in Togo, you'd see daylight horror of all kinds, dried human and animal parts. Something as quire as a human pen!s can be bought in that market. What do they need it for, if not for some rituals,To appease their demonized images called gods.
The west are also involved in some of these demonic practices through illuminati and other occult groups but they are hidden.Africans were engrossed in it.

Today Nigeria is the largest exporter of Christian missionaries in the world. Nigerian missionaries are all over the world including America and Fetish practices are gradually fading away though still been practiced secretly.


Africans discovered natural resources too early.
We lack the capacity to govern or manage things, but give it 20 years, we will compete with Asian countries. By then we would have saturated our societies with intellectually sound individuals who have developed the capacity to govern a people.

On that cave dwelling thing, your post kind of agree with mine that Africans had no direction, save few kingdoms. I wouldn't want to hurt someones feelings by using the word hopless most were fetish and hopless. Why would boers enslave Southies if they found them in good houses

Guy shut up your racist to your own people you feel inferior to the whites you have been fed lies for too long you believe African discovered their resources too late like wtf, what do you mean most Africans had no direction, if Africans had no direction then the rest of the world wouldn’t either the world could have never evolved without Africa’s knowledge not just our resources our books in the grand library of Alexandria our books in the great university of Timbuktu. Our oral traditions passed down in west Africa are all places where the whites have learnt from us but they always claim it as their own but you wouldn’t know this because your a fool and what we like to call a coon. One day africa will rise up again through pan Africanism and I hope to be one of the people at the forefront of the movement, idgaf bout your opinions of African history and religions because they’re all wrong. Hope to see you crying in the 20-40 years when africa is developed and your kids are smarter than you, if any women is willing to suffer with your stupidity on a daily basis that is

Kazikazi:
Your sokoto is made of cotton,the plant which were brought in your country by colonizers.Don't ever call those things ' African'.Even a sewing machine you use was made by foreigners. I don't wanna mention about needles and stuff,I know thy are all foreign made probably China.
But without knowing much,you wear your sokoto and call it African?

Cotton isn’t even native to Europe so wtf are you talking about your inferiority complex to the white man is really showing cotton is native to Africa and Asia we took it to the, they imported cotton from us they used to use wool for their clothing before we started trading cotton with them. We didn’t need needles we had a way of clothing ourselves and making clothes before they came we had aso ebi, adire, akwete etc, these were all made before they came in fact people in the Kongo empire, bini empire and nupe empire all traded cloths with the British and Portuguese because ours were more stylish.

mtisTheQubit:
Dude just come out an tell us your religion..an don't hide behind africa spiritual stuff..we know who congured benin

I am a diviner of ifa

jln115:
there were massacres all over Africa before and after colonisation that's the point....white colonisers didn't bring murder, genocide, rape ect ect to Africa... That was here long before the whitey came

Want to provide evidence we’re focusing mainly on Western Africa, there weren’t genocides of any type there were wars but never on the scale of those that came after and it genuinely wasn’t a matter of better weapons they had guns in some of these wars but the casualties still remained low, mostly becuase all through out they were trying to make peace look at obalufon the second how he ended the wars and rebuilt the city to be great again

Ideadoctor:
as I said earlier we have heresy in churches, worshipping of saints and dead people is the heresy of the Catholic church, the Bible never instruct us to worship dead people.

I will like to give you an advice, if you want to argue Christianity with me, don't pick weakness from churches, pick weakness from the Bible, I don't follow doctrine of churches, I follow only what the Bible says.

Christmas to me is the day the Lord Jesus was born, that is my belief and my faith,any other meaning attached to it is what Christmas is to that person, if you consider it a pagan day,then to you it is a pagan day,and if you consider it the day of birth of Jesus, then it is to you as you believe.

For the Christmas thing it has nothing to do with your beliefs these are facts we are arguing with facts not opinions here, Christmas originated as a pagan holiday whether you like it or not. Also Christianity was created in the 1st Century AD a few hundred years after Jesus died, the Bible was reformed by King James and whoever else wanted it to be reformed. The point is the Bible you see is very watered down by multiple generations of people trying to change it to suit their facts just as the church does you cannot trust either.

Ideadoctor:
Do you hear what I said earlier, I have moved with afrelist when I was growing up,human sacrifice to Ogun is something they proudly mention, this is no British bastardization, this is from the Ogun worshippers themselves.

You can please mention the verses in the Bible that support racism and oppression,I am waiting, but if you can't find it,please don't mention it again

It obviously isn’t though, ogun worshippers don’t sacrifice humans I know people who grew up in villages around ogun, Oyo and osun state and one of my uncles is a babalawo, a devotee of ogun and he only sacrifices dogs, he has never once talked about human sacrifice it is British bastardisation.


Your looking for oppression in the Bible plenty of examples apostle Paul’s epistle to the Ecclestians he says very clearly “ Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; not with eye-service, as men-pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.”

Ideadoctor:
crusaders waged war outside the ordinance of Jesus Christ, that is,they did something that they were not commanded to do,there actions were not acceptable before Jesus Christ, this is a different case from the Islamic jihad which was commanded by Muhammad, or the African ritual killing of slaves which was supported by all African society.

Real Christians do not celebrate Halloween, in fact, Halloween is not a Christian thing, concerning herbs and roots, herbs and root are scriptural,only out of ignorance do Christians avoid this natural blessing, I took herbs in as much as it does not involve incantations or invocation, there is no sin in it.

Masquerading is connected with the spirit of the dead,we are warned not to tamper no mingle with the spirit of the dead.

Christmas is nothing but the celebration of the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ,any other meaning you give to Christmas is from your own point of view

Crusades is not the only example of violence in the history of Christianity remeber when god struck down 500 000 Israelite soldiers just to prove his dominance and power a true god would never do that,

2. If you don’t tamper with dead people why do you pray to saints and to Jesus they are all dead people who you generate so stop with this dead people nonsense

3. Christmas is actually a pagan holiday if you cared to research Christmas has nothing to do with the birth of Christ, Jesus was actually born in September or February if he were a real person, but the fact of the matter is that Christmas isn’t a Christian holiday it was created by the pagans, and Santa doesn’t represent st Nicholas Santa was created by Coca Cola as a form of branding in the 1920s

Ideadoctor:
what sort of man would always thirst for blood and war. Sorry to say,if you have been one of the victim of those who are sacrificed to Ogun, would you still talk this way?Ogun is not my ancestor and he shall never be,I am proudly an African specifically a Yoruba, a real Yoruba, I am proud of Yoruba culture and their wisdom, but I am not swayed by the religious practice, because I submit all beliefs under the light of humanity and ethics, but I found afrel wanting

There is no n sacrifice that was simply a propaganda created by the British there is no evidence whatsoever to support human sacrifice other than racist derogatory British cartoons, also don’t act as if Christians have never committed wars 8n the name of god, what about when god struck down 500 000 Israelites for no reason other than to prove his dominance. Remember ogun and all these deities are just normal people with very good skills, Christianity and Islam are both religions of oppression, racism and murder. Neither of them are equal to women, neither of them show equality, neither of them are peaceful, neither of them are for black people you need to get this in your skull

Ideadoctor:
I have some contrary opinion to your prepositions.
1) Jesus is not a Greek God, nor was he a human creation, the Jews bear testimony to his existence, likewise the Greeks, the Romans,the Arabs and all civilized institutions, so nobody can actually come out with bold excuse to deny his being.

2) Christianity is not a white man religion, it is the religion of humanity, Jesus said" go ye therefore and make disciples of all nations ", Matthew 28:19, Jesus never said of white nation, he said of all nation, irrespective of their color or race. Mind you Christianity never developed from the west,it origin was from Palestine. Black people in their quest to break free from slavery ,denied everything about their master including the religion, they find only a racial solace in African indigenous religion.

3) IFA is not perfect, Africans practices IFA with devotion but still they lack the real essence of humanity which is love,Africans practiced IFA but still they sold their brothers to slavery, they practiced IFA but still they support human sacrifices ( mind you, babalawos do not deny human sacrifice so be informed, they do it,but now that civilization has come,they couldn't come out to do it openly again) but the same whites were those who fought for the abolishment of slave trade, the American civil war was as a result of slave trade,people who fought for the abolition included a lot of white politicians and people, why were they ready to sacrifice their live to stop slave trade? Because, they knew Christianity was against it.

4) IFA support demonic possession and witch craft. Every IFA priest or babalawo reverenced and fear the witches,in fact they call the witches, eyin Iya" which means" our mothers" babalawos works hand to hand with witches,not only that,demonic possession is an obvious thing in IFA,remember shango olukoso who was possesses by jakuta the fire breathing demon,he ended his life in misery, if it were not to be a demonic possession, he would not have dies the way he died.

My greatest conviction of the flaws of IFA is that,a true religion appeals to humans without much deliberation IFA never appeal to men until they are been enticed by it secrecy,mind you bro,if you walk the path of IFA, your life would be wearied by knowledge of sorrow and mystery,I am saying this from experience, if you study IFA you will surely acquire knowledge and wisdom, but I tell you,you would wish you never know them at the first instance, Jesus is the only way

1) if Jesus was actually real and so popular as a messiah and even after his resurrection how come they didn’t build great statues for him, if they referred him so then they would have built statues in his image or at least monuments as they did for other significant figures but they didn’t showing that it is very unlikely that he was real they built statues for their deities both the Romans and Greeks as well as the Egyptians so why is it that now they were unable to do that for Jesus doesn’t make sense now does it.

2) black people didn’t find solace in their African religions becuase if you go anywhere in the world including here you still find that black people are Christians and Muslims and as you think here African religions are demonic based so in essence that point you’ve made is wrong, and also Christianity is a white man religion look at the depictions of Jesus of Mary it was made that way so we would think they were all white people and we would think all whites are gods, look at the crusades it was the whites who led it not blacks or Arabs, blacks were barely ever in the Bible other than the Ethiopians.

3) I don’t know what you mean by ifa doesn’t involve love, osun is loves all humans our ancestors love us, our mina loves us, olorun loves us he guides us, esu loves us he guides you along the destiny or path that is best for you, god has no destiny set for you, god has no waht ot ell you what to do but ifa does, ifa has a stronger link with the people then Christianity and Islam do, ifa is all about love. Also slavery was rife during Christianity so it isn’t a point and it’s not like every single person who practiced ifa supported slavery, the whites created it in the first place for their moral benefit the only reason why slavery ended was because they created machines which were more efficient it had nothing to do with goodwill, if they actually cared they wouldn’t have allowed it to go on for over 400 years so don’t bring me thst Christianity bs. In fact St. Paul or Saul was once in jail with another man and that man was a slave and he told the slave to go back and serve his master no matter what, thst definitely shows love now doesn’t it.

4) for one there are no demons in ifa and also there is no whatever you said they have iyaami aje which is what people later called witches they don’t call them our mothers but they know to never disrespect them, ifa is a religion of duality there is good and bad, left and right, up and down the iyaami aje are on both sides with the Orishas and with the ajoguns. You don’t get on their bad side most babalawos avoid them unless it is seriously needed. I don’t know where you keep on getting this human sacrifice nonsense because all of the sources are from British missionaries who I don’t trust because they’ve published a lot of fake news just to rubbish African religions, I have spoken to babalawos including ones in their 90s and they akk say human sacrifice is and never was practiced becuase it is taboo to use another humans blood in ifa. So no your wrong again.

5). Jesus is not the only way and ifa doesn’t call you so stop with all these fallacies I debunked all your points what next.

Lessonteacher:
tell me more about IFa Corpus

It contains all the knowledge of the world thst the yorubas, igbo, ewe, fon, nupe, gwari etc, have gathered since the dawn of time it was created by orunmila the orisha of wisdom and knowledge and essentially ifa contains solutions to most problems it has stories of how to win wars, how to cure skin diseases, how to raise a child, how to help a women given birth, how to deal with periods, how to go through a divination. It has so much knowledge it is unbelievable. I’m not really sure where to start you have to be more specific because the ifa corpus contains religion, philosophy, biology, chemistry, anatomy, pharmacy, geography etc.

The ifa corpus is made up of 16 major books with 256 minor books/chapters it follows a binary system which can be found in maths and computer science. It is thousands of years old it is as old as humanity some may claim. And it contains so much knowledge it contains history, it contains biology, it contains astronomy, it contains anatomy, it contains war tactics, it contains inventions, it contains religion, it contains philosophy etc. It is a book with so much knowledge it is important but we are focusing in the religious part of it.

For one let me clear some misunderstandings about ifa, they do not and never have practiced human sacrifice in ifa, in most cases ebo ( sacrifice) will be needed for ifa but it is only animal sacrifices.

There is no satan in ifa and esu is not satan, esu is the beholder of destiny and a messenger he is the only other bridge between you and the spiritual realm other than your ancestors ( we”ll get back to them ). Ifa is an oracle system but because of the sheer amount of information the babalawo isn’t always able to give you the answer you want immediately, he may have to recite three different stories or proverbs, thst all apply to your problem but don’t solve it before you find a solution.

Ifa is highly spiritual it takes the whole body to come together to truly understand the power of ifa. Ifa speaks to the body, to the souk and the consciousness through music, through rhythm and through word thst is why Yoruba is a tonal language, Yoruba was made for ifa and by ifa.

The ifa corpus was originally made by a man named orummila who was deified as the orisha of wisdom and institution, which is another thing.

The average human is able to become deified but these days there are few with such knowledge other than elders. Orishas majority of them were once people but they gained such a great understanding of nature and the spiritual realm thst they gained powers over nature. Sango was an ordinary man but he learnt so much about the lightning and fire that he was able to essentially control them. Ogun learnt so much about the structure of the world and minerals and war. That he was able to win all the wars, he was able to manipulate the metals into many forms never seen before and he was able to identify things others hadn’t and he had a great understanding of the world around him which is why he was deified.

You may be wondering what is an orisha, well orisha is essentially a deity but ori means head in yoruba becuase in ifa the head is very important and integral to the overall cohesion of the man and the spiritual world. It is believed that the head is the source of your spiritual self becuase it is where your consciousness is located which is why the head is so integral to it. Which is why you need to protect your head and make sure to venerate it and keep it clean at all times, it is your path to orun and the understanding of the world.


Ifa does not have any hell within it, there is only orun ( source ) they do not know where the source is or how it works but they say when you die you go back to the source of all life.


Now going away from a few misunderstandings ifa is also a lot more equal to woman then other religions, ifa deified women, how many female angels or at least angels in the Bible do you see with feminine names how many woman in the Bible or Quran were highly respected, were prophets, were given special powers from God etc, the only significant woman in the Bible are Ruth and Mary every other one just served as a house wife or a domestic cleaner. But in ifa you have oya orisha of thunder and wind, you have osun orisha of fertility and life you have yemoja orisha of water and rivers, you have olokun Orishas if the seas and so many others there are more than a hundred female Orishas, but that isn’t the only place where this equality is shown

Ideadoctor:
IFA is indeed the true religion of the Yoruba people, a great art,a great science. It was developed by a great Yoruba philosopher, Orunmila, it present a way of knowing the mind of olodumare through divination, IFA has 256 principal odus,although there are sixteen odus,but each odus has another alternative which makes it 256.

But the bad side of IFA is that some of it Philosophy goes against ethics and humanity, human sacrifice, tendency to get in contact with wrong demons,so I say it loud IFA is to be associated as a great art or science but not as a religion, hear me I grew up in the midst of elders and I know what they do in secret, they never have peace of mind,the truth is that only in Jesus is there peace and hope for the afterlife, Jesus said " love your neighbour as you love yourself, he said to the adulterer" go and seen no more", what religion could be greater than this,what I wrote is the truth,is you disapprove ask your heart

Jesus this Jesus that the myth of Jesus was created from the Greek pagan god serapis in 325AD go and learn some history. Ifa does not contain human sacrifice, human sacrifice in ifa is taboo and outlawed. There are no demons in ifa but there are ajogun which come in many different forms including as viruses. Ifa is a great science and art I agree with you but it is also a great religion and spirituality. Jesus cannot and will never help you. If Jesus cared for us blacks he wouldn’t have allowed us to be taken away in the slave trade. But it was ifa or what evolved into the Caribbean religions which helped the Haitians to gain “supernatural” powers as some witnesses stated to overcome the French.