₦airaland Forum

I don't even know the name of the commission but I am aware that prior to the creation of the state of Israel that there was a plan to create 2 states (Israel & "Palestine".

Now, assuming the arabs rejected the recommendations of the commission you referenced does it then mean that the powers that be went ahead with the recommendations inspite of the rejection by the arabs?

Would it then have meant that those that insisted on creating the State of Israel regardless of any misunderstandings did so based on the fact that they had the military might to force their views on the world?

If the answer to the question above is YES, then why would the world expect those that have been unfairly treated to fold their arms and smile at the Isrealites?

Would it be correct to state that prior to 1988 there was nothing about the creation of the state of Palestine?

@Mckren,

Thanks for the wonderful comments. You are indeed addressing the issues.

What are my views about Palestine if I may ask so as to be certain we are on the same page because I very much doubt it?

Enjoy!

McKren:
Afam forget personal grudges and Religous sentiments, lets do common sense like you rightly suggested.

The question is, Does Isreal have the right to defend itself?

Yes.

McKren:
Does the call for fundamental human right exclude Isreals right to life and existence?

Lets hear your views on these questions.

No.

I am very sure that for the simple fact that I am a practicing christian I cannot be accused of siding with the muslims so the issue of religous sentiments don't hold water.

My position remains that any bad or wrong action must be acknowledged regardless of the person, group or nation responsible.

davidylan:
you people give afam too much publicity by quoting the rantings of a self righteous hypocrite. The fellow accuses others of limited knowledge and yet has consistently striven NOT to answer any questions put across to him.

My advice is to ignore him. He is not here to discuss but to insult those who don't share his warped views.
Here is what he first said:

Considering the fact that you advised others to ignore him and went ahead to repeat what they did which you considered was responsible for giving too much publicity then you make yourself the biggest hypocrite and sycophant of our time.

Discuss? With you? You are own your own oo as I have already made it clear that people should not be held responsible for your limit level of comprehension, this forum can not be a substitute for real education.

Mariory:
There were no Palestinians before the creation of Israel. I know you think that by continuously repeating it to yourself you are justifying your stance but, you need to give up that illusion.

And for anybody else interested, the Arab state of Palestine was initially conceived by Yasir Arafat in 1988 and was to comprise the Egyptian Gaza Strip, the Jordanian West Bank and the Jordanian sector of Jerusalem. These territories were siezed from Egypt and Jordan during the 'six day war'.

Now this is getting interesting. Just for the records is the Arab state of Palestine different from the State of Palestine? I am asking this question so you don't come back and use the qualifier Arab to defend this statement of the century as regards the State of palestine or the clamour for it.

dguru:
hello raw,
I can teach you programming at home.I specialise in JAVA,sql,linux,xml and uml.

You can reach me on 01-8709564

Are all these programming languages?

nigeria1:
please can someone post mr makama falsified new local govt census , i want to analysis it, i want to bring an end to this census fraud,

Why must you use a misleading title?

You have not even seen the new local government census that you claim is falsified yet you want to analyze it and bring an end to this census fraud?

Sometimes I prefer the the current crop of leaders no matter how inefficient they are to some of you that complain about them only to make very crazy claims.

I-man:
Surprisingly,Afam failed to mention that the West Bank and Gaza received 700 million Euros($939 million) in aid last year.With a population of 4 million,that will be the equivalent of Nigeria receiving a minimum of $30 billion per annum.

[url]http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2613545,00.html[/url]

You don't think for me, I don't think like you so stop imagining things that Afam will state or not state on a forum. I cannot be brainwashed and manipulated like you.

davidylan:
One only hopes that you will take your own self righteous advice.

Maybe we should even ask why a system should be put in place to make a country BE FORCED to provide eletricity, water and other social infrastructure as Isreal has been forced to do in Gaza and Judea-Samaria (decietfully refered to as the westbank).

Mckren has said it all. Where the shoe to be on the other foot, FATAH and HAMAS would not only withhold taxes they would have wiped Isreal off the map ages ago. All is fair in war, if Isreal rightfully percieves that the "taxes" are merely going to be used to procure more weapons to fire at them then it would make sense to withhold it.
What is the purpose of the taxes anyway? Isreal is forced to supply the palestinians with basic social amenities while funds for workers salaries come from the US and the EU! Maybe the REAL question to ask here is WHAT hamas and fatah have been doing with the taxes they've been recieving all along.

And about this hypocrisy of "democratically elected government", Hitler was also democratically elected, no one is condemning the allies from iinvading his country.

The real problem is not the process of democracy itself BUT the motive behind it. If indeed Hamas was "democratically elected" why did they go on a murderous rampage to sack the Fatah party from Gaza? Does that itself not completely defeat the democratic process?
What if the US government writes in its constitution not to recognise Nigeria and to do all in its power to drive all Nigerians into the sea, would you sit back and claim they have a legitimate right simply because they were democratically elected?

That is a falsehood! The REAL ISSUES is not whether hamas was democratically elected or that Isreal is withholding taxes! This problem has been ongoing for more than 40 years! Isreal has not been withholding taxes for more than a yr and hamas was only elected less than 2 years ago. The real problem is one of religiously inspired hatred and a desire to destroy the Jewish race as enshrined in the Hamas charter. Land, water, taxes, democracy are all buta means to achieving an end- the destruction of the Jewish race.

Is Isreal withholding taxes from Iran?

I will pass your very narrow minded questions to a mad man on the street to provide answers.

You think you know when you don't know.

When you find it fashionable stating that muslims worship idols then it goes to show how stupid and silly you are and tomorrow you will talk about christianity.

If christianity is all about what you have displayed here then being a pegan will be a far better choice. Religous blindness and bigotry at its best, you are a big embarassment to christians.

@Tornadoz,

I think you are only educating this davidylan because he comes here with a load of rubbish and leaves with a lot of information he never knew anything about.

Educate him if you must but for me he will only leave here with what he comes here with.

I have seen many people that find it difficult to accept the fact that they do not know certain things and as such arguing with such people will only result in time wasting.

Enjoy.

We still hope that many will ultimately use discussion forums to learn more about issues they don't fully comprehend instead of fighting and abusing people that choose not to believe their half baked information.

The news below refers, why would a system be put in place to make a country collect taxes on behalf of another?

Who gives the country the right to withhold such taxes from a democratically elected government in Palestine?

What makes democracy in one part of the world accepted and in another part rejected?

These and similar questions are the real issues making things worse in the Israeli Palestinian conflict and unfortunately many have already taken sides based on religion and not common sense.

Enjoy!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6234556.stm

Israel to free Palestinian funds

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert asked the cabinet to approve the vote
Israel has approved the release of frozen tax funds to the emergency government of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
The move will help reinforce Mr Abbas's position against Hamas, which has taken control of the Gaza Strip.

An Israeli official said the tax revenues would be handed over in stages to prevent the money reaching Hamas.

The money was originally withheld by Israel after the Islamist group came to power in the January 2006 election.

The cabinet's vote came ahead of a summit that Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is due to attend with Mr Abbas and Egyptian and Jordanian leaders.

But the summit will not see Israel entering into negotiations on a final peace deal with the Palestinians, a government official said.

"These talks do not include final status issues, but rather, how the prime minister and the president of the Palestinian Authority would envision a future Palestinian state," David Baker said.

Scepticism

Mr Olmert said the funds would "gradually help the new Palestinian government, one that is not a Hamas government".

"We will discuss with the Palestinian president tomorrow, and with the Palestinian government in the summit's aftermath, how we release the funds," he said.

The Israelis should release all our money. These are Palestinian, not Israeli, funds

Saeb Erekat

An official said the money would be released once a mechanism is established to ensure that it does not reach Hamas.

A BBC correspondent says Israel has spoken about releasing the tax revenues over before, and many Palestinians will be sceptical until the funds are handed over.

An Israeli government official said the cabinet approved the transfer of around $350m (£125m), the Reuters news agency reported.

But it added this was short of the $700m sought by the Palestinian president.

A senior aide to Mr Abbas, Saeb Erekat, said: "The Israelis should release all our money. These are Palestinian, not Israeli, funds."

Last week, the US, the EU, and Israel said they would lift the economic embargo on the emergency government announced by Mr Abbas.

At the time Israel said it would handover about $800m (£400m) of custom taxes.

Earlier this month Mr Abbas dissolved government and declared a state of emergency, following deadly clashes between his Fatah faction and Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

The fighting left Hamas in control of Gaza, while Fatah says it retains control in the West Bank.

While no one can excuse the type of comments Bankole01 made on Yar'adua I think his hatred for OBJ has run over and Yar'adua may have inherited the wahala.

Bankole is a very responsible man to the best of my knowledge and sometimes I wonder why he will show the level of apathy towards Nigeria in general and OBJ cum Yar'adua in particular.

Bankole, take am easy, you can still oppose or dislike Yar'adua simply because he had the support of OBJ without making it sound like you are on a war path with him.

I-man:
By the very same standards you apply when refering to me as someone who hates Muslims,the collective weight of your opinion exposes your anti-Semitism.Who can forget your "face of extreme Zionism" thread based on the video of one drunken teenager?One in millions.
I must have missed where I expressly or impliedly suggested that "the killing of innocent ones by the Israelis is right".Presumably,by your reckoning,being pro-Israel equates supporting the killing of innocents.Is the Jewish nation synonymous with the killing of innocents,so that anyone who generally favors them is a supporter of the killing of innocents.I suppose I can deduce from that,that your pro-Palestinian position entails support for the killing of innocent Jews.

I still await with bated breath,your condemnation of the killings in Lebanon.Just last year,you embarked on a frenzied demonisation of Israel for causing civilian deaths in Lebanon.This year's casualties has been met with deafening silence on your part.Are you no longer interested in the fate of Lebanese civilians?Perhaps,your interest last year was not in civilian casualties but in attacking Israel.That is what I mean by the weight of your opinion.

I will rather count the number of cars that are white that are passing my office then waste my time replying your confused position and preferences as to what and when I should comment on and why I should even do so.

I-man:
Remember when I called you an inveterate liar?You are living up to my description of you because I know the reason for my new username was explained to you by another Nairalander .

So, someone had to explain why you switched names after someone unmasked you? I stated earlier you will self destruct and you are not disappointing.

Now, you changed your user ID without making any reference to the old one, why? If not for criminal and dubiuos reasons why would you change your username and pretend to be a new person on a forum and attack people you have always disagreed with?

My dear, I see you as a fraud simple and don't even try to explain anything because even armed robbers when caught try all the y can to explain away their crimes. Credibility wise, you are no where.

Before it was 4Play, now I-man, who knows what you will come up with when you have a "good" reason to get another username?

If this is true then I wonder why political opponents did not make it an issue even with a strong presidential challenger like Buhari coming from the same state.

Well, assuming you are correct and we are ignorant of these claims could you please enlighten us? Throw more light on this as I would want to know if he is really clean or not.

If Duke is a major share holder in Tinapa then he is corrupt.

On Yar'adua, have we heard any allegation against this man? Even Buhari that hails from the same state with him could not accuse him of anything during the last presidential elections.

We should be bold to praise good leaders just as we should be bold to condemn bad ones.

Are all Nigerians criminals simply because Nigerians are criminals?

Bankole01:
So far, only Yar'Adua have been exornorated from official looting of States treasuries. That means they are all thieves. Igbo, Yoruba, Calabar, Ibibio, Hausa, Fulani or what have you. They with active connivance by the chief 'ole' 'barao' Obasanjo, partook in the despoilation of Nigeria!

That is why I prefered Yar'adua to lead this nation as we need honest and dedicated people free from corruption because if the head is clean it will be easy to whip the rest into line.

Bankole01:
@Afam:

I believe this is the only way Nigeria can move forward.

The elections should start with local governments first, move on to gubernatoral, house of rep and senate, the finally presidential.
This is the only way he will ever become acceptable. He is an albatross with clipped off wings. He will never soar and will for ever remain illegitimate!

You and I know this won't happen.

Why do we set almost perfect standards with it comes to Nigeria?

Countries that some people use as examples often times see worse elections and elections are never rescheduled but when it comes to Nigeria all the laws in the world will be brought to the fore just to make it clear that things are not right with Nigeria.

There is absolutely no point in conducting fresh elections as the results won't be different from what we saw.

Let us face reality, the election is done with, we should be looking for ways to make the country better.

Bankole01:
If he realy wants to do what is right, he should organize new credible elections. True representatives of the people will be elected. Sovereign national conference needs to be convened to right a true constitution for the nation.
Until he does all these, he remains illegitimate!. He is only doing the biddings of his emirs and alfas, who want to pay Obasanjo back with his own deceitful coins!

Bankole01,

You must be kidding to expect the president to call for another elections.

It is calls like this one that make me hope and pray that we have leaders that buy ear muffs so they can concentrate on their jobs.

Conduct fresh elections indeed.

What exactly is Al-Mustapha's offence or crime that many are shouting that he should be shot?

Can someone list his crime or offence?

Himself and Bamaiyi have been in detention simply because OBJ wanted them to be there.

In reality, do we have any real case against these people? If yes why haven't the government successfully prosecuted them even after 8 years?

If no, why are they still there?

Meanwhile it is interesting to note that some want him shot but are ready to defend Bush even with the many innocent lives he is responsible for killing.

I-man/Play,

The other time I pointed out your lie you claimed it was a mistake, is this yet another of your innumerable mistakes?

I have never in my life insulted any religion let alone the God a religion professes and that I believe is the reason for the statements you are responding to.

Anti-Semite? Based on what? That I don't agree with you that the killing of innocent ones by the Israelis is right? If that qualifies one to be anti-Semite, please feel free to label me as one, no apologies on that issue.

The killing of any innocent person is wrong regardless of the person, group or nation carrying out the killing.

As to the other nonsense you were bringing into the issue you are on your own.

By the way it seems you have stuck with I-man for quite some time now, when are we seeing another ID that you will manufacture to hide your identity?

davidylan:
@ uspry1, they are indeed malaysians. Malaysia is a predominantly islamic country. Even Nigerian muslims celebrated the fall of the twin towers on Sept 11th. What matters to them is not where they come from but that they all bow down 5 times a day to the same idol.

The content in bold refers, I think it is very wrong for someone to insult a religion and call the God the religion believes in an idol.

There is a thin line between unacceptable/avoidable insults and freedom of expression/speech.

We all reserve the right to respect other people's religions whether we agree with them or not.

Such level of hatred. insult and intolerance is very very wrong.

laudate:
Forgive me for being so blunt, but that is just the way I feel right now. No single ethnic group has a monopoly of knowledge or ability. All can contribute equally in this project of nation-building. But it is galling, to see a set of people (with the exception of a few like Utomi), doing very little in the scheme of things, in order to win the highest seat in the land, and then coming back to say they have been denied of a chance to rule. 'Nuff said.

My friend, better say your mind on the Igbos and stop this patronizing statements with subtle arrogance and nonsense.

What is your tribe if I may ask? Let the Igbos be as I don't remember reading where anyone was complaining to your about the Igbos not getting the presidency.

Is Utomi from the South East? What yardstick are you using to make a case for Utomi as representing the Igbos if not for mischief?

mu431:
@ Afam
You are absolutely right, quality is always better than quantity! “Substance over form” any day.

The young man does not seem to understand this fundamental fact. I think he is irredeemably brainwashed.

davidylan:
I quite agree with you, the quality of your posts leave a lot to be desired. Its wonderful how those who bandy "go back to pre-1967 borders" want to be seen as intelligent too.

That has always been a problem for you and that is why you feel too much pain when people do not buy the rubbish you sell here.

1. Do not hope to be seen as intelligent on a public forum because if you are not intelligent it won't make any difference if people believed you are.

2. Do not hope to convince anyone on a public forum, make your points and leave the audience/users to make up their minds, it is not your duty.

3. Do not imagine that writing 10 sentences for every 1 sentence you wish to disagree with will help you, at best it will bore the reader as nothing new seldom comes in and at worst it will look like you are desperately trying to prove a point (without success anyway).

4. Face your studies so you don't come out empty, you won't be helping the society abeg. Meanwhile good luck with your studies.

laudate:
Thank you for telling it as it is, jare! This was what I was alluding to, when someone called me. . . a moronic spoiler, and advocated for 'turn-by-turn' presidency. It will suprise those who are waiting for turn-by-turn presidency, that the cup will pass them by again, when another election year rolls by.

If Abiola had not contested for presidency in June 12, 1993 and won a resounding victory which was anulled, only to die in jail while trying to reclaim his mandate, do you think OBJ would have profited from his goodwill when 1999 elections, came round?

It was because of Abiola's death, that other ethnic groups thought the South-West should be given an uncontested shot at the presidency. Even at that, the same South-West elctorate boycotted OBJ in 1999. It was the Northern establishment that put him in power. Like I keep asking, if OBJ had not formed alliances with them prior to 1999, would they have come together to put him in Aso Rock? Don't forget, that this was a man who had just come out of prison, and had little or nothing, to his name. Even when rumours were strong that he would run for presidency in 1999, he scoffed at the idea initially, by saying "How many presidents do they want to make out of me? Afterall, I have been a Head of State, once before." Again, when Yakubu Gowon initailly indicated an interest to run, OBJ said "Maybe there was something he (i.e. Gowon) forgot in Dodan Barracks when he was Head of State, that he now wants to go back and take." The rest as they say, is now history.

When 2004 came round, the Northern oligarchy helped to put OBJ back in the saddle, again . This time around however, OBJ had appeased the South-West by placing some of their prominent sons in his cabinent, and trying to mend fences with them. He also struck a mortal blow at the AD, infiltrated their ranks and made sure the party went through so much squabbles, that their centre fell apart. So a lot of South-Western politicians decamped to the PDP and worked to give him victory, in their territory.

Now, someone believes that the presidency would rotate in a turn-by-turn fashion, when other ethnic groups have not gone to sleep and are busy strategising on how to rotate it, to their own region. Even the South-South, is not folding its' arms. Prior to the 2007 elections, when Odili was a strong contender for the presidency at the party primaries, some elders from the Niger-Delta objected to Odili being picked as a candidate from their zone, because they preferred a minority tribe like the Ijaw/Kalabari etc. to field a candidate to represent the zone.

Am still waiting for more people to call me names, for chronicling this series of events that have dogged the outcome of attempts to vye for the presidential ticket. Every good student of Nigerian politics, knows full well that history often repeats itself. God dey!

The content in bold refers, what exactly is your point? That an Ijaw/Kalabari person being selected instead of Odili will make the person a non Niger Deltan?

Is the issue of rotational presidency strange or new to you? Unless PDP goes under in the next couple of years I doubt if any political party can challenge it in any major election.

And if SS takes the slot when the presidency comes back to the South what's the big deal? Did the North fight for it before it was zoned to them this time around going by your suggestion that the Igbos should fight for it before they can see the presidency?

sleekdot:
The zoning is a party thing PDP zoned to the North that was why no Yoruba dragged it with them on the platform of PDP, all parties have their own but since PDP is the most powerful party we assume the zoning of PDP is the zoning of Nigeria.

@ Afam,
Can you answer that question without throwing red herrings?

I never told you I had red herrings talk less of throwing them.

Ok, to answer your question I suggest you ask others to help provide the phone numbers of Alex Ekwueme and Chukwuemeka Ezeife so you can ask them why they were contesting with Yoruba sons after the presidency had been zoned to the South West.

davidylan:
You are very right, that is why you ran with your tail between your legs on all the other similar threads.

And you expect people to spend eternity on threads with you? What for?

Once I make my comments on threads I don't need to emphasize them nor do I need to write gospels, I only come back to make clarifications if necessary.

It is not the quantity of posts that matter, it is the quality but with over 6000 posts I guess it will be difficult for you to understand.

sleekdot:
If they have actally given the South West the right to produce the president in 1999 then what was Alex Ekwueme looking for at the PDP primaries and Ezeife at the AD primaries

So, in your wisdom OBJ gets out of prison, without any political platform gets into PDP and wins the primary. If he was that good then the issue of 3rd term would have been like moi moi.

It is either you are playing games or you really do not have any idea of what has been in the public domain for over 8 years now.

@Easyy,

Tell them make dem hear.

Meanwhile, no let the likes of Davidylan, I-man/4Play (na the same person, e dey use multiple IDs) and TayoD read this thing wey you write because na trouble dem go carry come.

Bush has made the US more vulnerable and hated because of his lies and olodeness.

I am surprised that a Nigerian is in the dark about the arrangement to allow the South West produce the president in 1999.

Thanks Chrisokw for your very informative and reasonable suggestions as regards the Igboland.

When people try all they can to convince others without succeeding it ends up in frustrations.

Discussion forums are not where people are convinced, people should make their points and allow the readers to make up their minds on their own. This idea of some of us complaining that they have not been challenged or convinced enough is really childish and inconsequential.

No one needs to write a gospel on this forum to change a simple fact as regards the Israeli-Palestinian wahala.

Someone is wondering why Palestinians are not queuing up to enter Egypt instead of Israel. Can someone explain to this student that Israel is still holding on to their lands they seized in 1967 and it is even a shame that Israel still collect taxes on behalf of Palestine because of the crazy arrangement in place.

There can never be peace without justice, equity and fairplay.

While some query if there was peace in 1947 would it not be interesting to ask if there was war before the powers in the world decided to relocate Jews scattered all over the world in the present day Israel plus lands seized by force?

Lies are like foundations on quicksand, when the time comes they will crumble and those that spread them will hide their heads in shame.

Hmmm, so a bible carrying christian must agree with you guys that the killing of innocent people is right, religous bigotry is a dangerous thing.

Those christians that support such unnecessary killings are no different from the islamic fundamentalists they condemn.

But it seems that some of you guys are making up statements to continue to spread the hate ideology.

Even devil worshippers sometimes claim to be christians so nothing spoil if the likes of davidylan that spreads hate ideology based on religion and race is claiming to be a good christian.

Only a shameless liar will state boldly that my position is not very clearly stated, one of which you labelled a weather beaten withdraw to pre 1967 border.

Did you even understand the basis of my response to you? It seems you are completely off the mark as regards my comments, take your time, read through again and this time try as much as possible to assimilate my post, good luck.