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As an after thought to those that feel that the universe must submit itself to the rules of their logic. I have stated many occurrences here that defy human logic and yet are happening. These occurrences baffle even the scientists themselves and at least those that came up with idea of other dimensions to explain these things didn't deny them. However when i wrote them here, they were promptly ignored because they didn't align to the prejudice and preconceived notions of the reader and yet they couldn't be fought away. This is due to the fight or flee response of ideas anyway. If your response isn't to deny that such proven things exist, I'll be glad to hear other explanations

greatgenius: They do exist and yes they are different ... Different because their creator or soul group complex is not Yahweh but Lucifer... But if you see them on the street they look exactly as " humans"... Having said that their DNA make up is also different from your make-up... They have evolved higher in awareness than humans...

Like the luciferian soul group, there are other soul groups like the Ra and others that have manifested on this earth to help humans in their evolution.... My point is not every " human" you see was or is created by Yahweh or part of the Yahweh soul group but once you are here you are terrestrial.. but I get your point .....

Yes I believe in other soul groups and what you just said above. What i meant was I don't think illuminati is the governments and musicians or whatever people say they are. Looking through their history they started out as a secret science group whose scientific ideas such as the earth is not the center of the universe would have gotten them killed by the church. In other words they came together to escape the oppression of the government which was the church at that time. I don't think they would become the very evil they seeked to escape or more importantly what that has got to do with Jay-Z or Beyonce. So let's call those bad guys other people call the illuminati what they really are which is the government(s)/Bilderberg group

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Actually, I was referring to your logic (and greatgenius),
In all my wanderings, I have never come across anyone who starts out an argument with such a blatant illogical statement like: "X is and is not".
Even weirder is that you guys go on to build the craziest of theories from it. Who deceived you people like this?[/quote]Ok. X JUST IS. Are you happy now? the whole idea of X IS NOT is that it X is not to you. For instance invisible green cars aren't but they actually are because if they really aren't then we wouldn't even be able to think about it. So invisible green cars are not to you but they really are. which is why i was trying to say there is really no such thing as nothing. I thought the "4D" picture i put would explain things a little better. i.e. those guys climbing up and not climbing up at the same time.
I know you were referring to our logic. Your quote was still funny so I had to laugh

greatgenius: I see what you are saying but my point was that as long as you incarnate here no matter what group soul you belong to you are terrestrial....

Now the 13 bloodlines which you have chosen to call illuminatis( and there are millions of them.) incarnated here on the behest of Yahweh to introduce polarity to his creations...
The presidents and the people that you know them as illuminatis are not part of the original bloodlines..

You know what this is not the time to talk about stuff like these...not this thread...but believe me they are not speculations....

Ok sir. I actually think the illuminati if they still exist are totally different people

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, Reyginus you sef get energy. You no see as I take style waka comot the thread.

Usually bad logic is difficult to spot in an argument because it is shrouded by a number of good statements. This one is just out and out na[color=#000000]ke[/color]d bad logic.

How can you have a logical conversation with someone who starts out his first premise with a blatant abuse of basic logic?

I may as well say pure gibberish like: "syuoncibnjko beythji is a loiujhhbguj and can make yppoovkotdi and not ppocuybyit before jfuhniopo it has jeuuuyguho not kjioopi99uu byvbkygbgjli87by1cf75." and when you ask me the meaning, I say that you are not reasoning in a higher dimension.

@greatgenius and Affiliated, Rubbish is still rubbish no matter what "dimension" you chose to elevate it to.[/quote]Buhahahaha. Nicely put

greatgenius: we are all aliens if by extraterrestrial you mean aliens... Now the 13 bloodlines are just part of the group memory complex/souls lucifer...just as " humans" are part of the group soul Yahweh... The 13 bloodlines are not part of the Yahweh group soul... And no Hebrews are not " aliens"...

Like I said Yahweh is just a coded name for the planetary logos or creator of this world..

Lol. By terrestrials, I mean life originating on earth and by extraterrestrials i mean outside earth. The 13 bloodlines are SPECULATED to have come from mars after martians partook in a Luciferian process. The Hebrews are SPECULATED to have come from somewhere which I can't remember now but they didn't take part in the Luciferian process so they got along just fine with humans. All these are speculations though and you may be right after all. But on another note, I find it interesting that all the United States presidents that ever ruled descend from a single bloodline. Obama and Bush seem world's apart which is why I didn't want to believe it at first

Reyginus: thank you.
1. If this is what logic is, how can it be outside our understanding?
2. How do you possess logic? I need to be clarified on what you're talking about.
3. Do you understand what you are talking about. I don't quite get you. Does logic cease to be logic in any other dimension?
4. How dare you conclude logic is a way a person thinks. In that case every pattern of thinking is logical?

I'm trying to keep everything as simple as possible.
1. I said the situation can be illogical to someone because the situation is outside one's understanding.
2. Logic is the science of the formal principles of reasoning
3. principles are a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption
4. If these laws, doctrines or assumptions are different in a different place or time, then the logic is different
5. Ok. Logic is not the way a person thinks, it is the reason behind the way a person thinks
6. If these fundamental assumptions behind the way people think are breached, then it is illogical to the person. For instance when logic dictated that the earth was the center of the Universe, it was well within logic for John to claim that one third of the stars would fall on the earth but now that my fundamental assumption has seen how insignificant the earth is, it is illogical for me to think a single star can even fall on the earth.

Reyginus: You seem to be confusing logic with knowing.
1. What do you mean by outside my logic?
2. Is logic a thing we possess or a way to understanding?
3. Is logic dependent or independent of place?

1. Logic is the way to understanding you possess.
2. Some years ago it was illogical for man to fly for instance
3. The logic you possess is dependent on time and place
4. Some definitions by my merriam-webster dictionary of logic include: A. the science of the formal principles of reasoning B. a particular mode of reasoning... I can conclude from this that logic is the way a person thinks

Reyginus: Good. At least their is a proof of the reckless use of logic in every higher dimension.

Imagine a one dimensional white blood cell whose sole purpose of existence is to protect you. It isn't aware of the reality of multicellular organisms talk less of Humans. Now imagine the reckless use of logic another white blood cell would employ when it is trying to explain that humans have eyes and are capable of seeing for instance... Once again logic is relative

greatgenius: ^^^^ yea hopefully we can all get some clarity.. And speaking of fascinating what's your personal view on Yahweh the creator of this world

Another interesting fact about Yahweh is that right now 13 bloodlines control 95% of the world's resources. these bloodlines are speculated to have extraterrestrial origins. The hebrew race is also speculated to have extraterrestrial origins and they are the ones that brought the idea of Yahweh

greatgenius: ^^^^ yea hopefully we can all get some clarity.. And speaking of fascinating what's your personal view on Yahweh the creator of this world

Well I know this world has a creator and that creator is known by many names to many people. A lot of religions and secret societies talk about the creator of this world but I really don't have any means to tell if their stories are true or are based on true events and my unconscious mind hasn't accepted any of the stories I've seen as true. So I really don't have any opinion about Yahweh for now. Maybe on my path towards enlightenment I'll find out about Yahweh but that knowledge would have to emanate from within me and not someone else trying to force it on me

greatgenius: God = All-That-Is, Pure Consciousness, Universal Mind, Source of All, Prime Creator, One Infinite Creator

Elohim = A group of Creator light Beings that are involved in the Creation of our world

Yahweh = One of the Elohim who is involved in the Creation of the Human Species and is our Planetary Logos

Lucifer = A Being of light that is involved in presenting polarity into our world for freewill evolution of humanity

Jesus = A Master that incarnated to teach awareness of Source. In Christian perspective, Jesus is an extension of Yahweh

Man = An Aspect of Prime Creator that is in third density embodiment for the human experience. Prime Creator is All Things.

“I have said you are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High.” ... We need to talk about the Group soul Yahweh and then maybe some clarity will come in..

Fascinating

Reyginus: How can God be explained if it can't be logically?

You know something which is illogical to be outside your logic. What's illogical to you would be logical to something or someone else. So explaining God to you would be outside the boundaries of your logic or illogical to you, however God has been explained nonetheless. For example the picture below is outside my logic but I could still try to explain it as men climbing to a higher level and yet being on the same level at the same time. If for example, that's how the reality of the fourth dimension is then it's illogical to us but would be completely logical to the beings there. However we can still try to explain it

Reyginus: Before anything we say here will even make sense, we must understand what it means to argue logically.
If you had replied 'no' to the question: 'can God be explained logically?', understanding your claim wouldn't have posed any difficulty. But I really don't understand what you think is meant by explaining God logically.
Is it possible to explain a thing logically by going against the rules of logic?

It was greatgenius who claimed that God can be explained logically. Which I agree with; it just depends on who's logic. But straight to the point, No. neither God nor the universe can be explained logically based on our natural perceptions of the immediate environment.

Reyginus: Logical contradictions upon contradictions.
How disappointed will be the laws of thought.
1. 'A' exist and doesn't exist. In tears, the principle of contradiction.
2. 'A' is true and also false. The principle of identity disfigured.
3. 'A' is always true of false. The gap in the principle of excluded middle bridged.
This is why the discusion will yield nothing.
SMH as I walk back to the sidelines.

Didn't really understand the post above, but on the terms of the principle of logical contradiction, I feel you are looking at things from the limited point of human senses in our dimension. This is why I'm trying to take time to explain quantum physics. But to simplify the argument let's just say that there is no such thing as non-existent or nothing and everything actually exists in all possible forms at all possible times but whatever your mind accepts as reality becomes reality to you

In our quest to explain our points, we have failed to seek to understand Mr_Anony and his beliefs. Please forgive us and explain your views of God so we can all understand each other better

[quote author=Mr_Anony]By possible worlds, I mean that there is no scenario whatsoever - real or imagined - where the concept of numbers does not exist. You can try. Imagine a world with no concept of numbers (first of all it won't even be a world to start with because "a" signifies the number "1" ). Feel free to try[/quote]Once again I emphasize that numbers are representations of the real thing which humans have created due to their inability to comprehend or grasp the real thing just like language itself also. Are spe.rm cells able to count or understand language? But aren't they living in their own world in my balls? In the quantum field there is no such thing as numbers. Everyone accepted light was a wave... an uncountable wave until some people expected it to be a countable particle which it became for them. and even after switching on the light, while observing the results later, expecting it to be a particle when it should have been a wave would cause the light to "go back in time and become a particle" hence for now light is both a countable particle and an uncountable wave.
True Story

[quote author=Mr_Anony]My friend, whatever Nirvana is, if it is not logically coherent, it doesn't exist. You cannot lose your identity and yet have it at the same time.[/quote]Ok. I respect your opinion.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I don't remember asking if anything exists. I am quite convinced that I do and you do and God does. Each of us distinct from one another. You guys are the ones arguing that God is and is not. I say that's logical nonsense.

Now let us come to energy. A ball is not energy, a ball has energy. A ball is matter. I know you might argue that matter and energy are the same but really they are not, energy is a property of matter. To measure energy, there must be a mass and a velocity of the motion of the mass. Without these, energy simply isn't there.
That said, Ideas are not energy. to claim that an idea is energy, you must give the physical mass of the idea and than tell us at what speed it is moving.[/quote]1. You didn't ask if anything exists, I was the one asking the thread if anything physical really exists.
2. I respect your opinions. When I however did my research on what matter is made up of i found out and agreed with the fact that when you break matter down to its most basic form there is a string of energy vibrating in a certain way that creates that reality [string theory]. This theory hasn't been proven but my unconscious mind accepts it to be true so its true for me. please respect my opinions too. Moving on to quantum physics which is too complex to be explained here but one of the possible interpretations according to scientists is that our thoughts or consciousness which are vibrations affect subatomic particles which is because they are made up of the same thing [energy].
Disclosure: Other possibilities explanations of the quantum world according to the same scientists is that
1. Particles move backwards as well as forwards in time and appear in all possible places at once
2. The universe is splitting, every Planck-time (10 E-43 seconds) into billions of parallel universes
I think the thought explanation makes more sense

I think I now understand the problem. Mr_Anony takes nothing in particular to be nothing. But by nothing and nowhere in particular we mean everything and everywhere hence the "IN PARTICULAR"

blacksta: All this Atheist sef - the fact that u r all hell bound - please dont drag others with u

One thing i find interesting about this fallen people - Why do they attack xtians. Please try and respect others belief.

Then why did you start a thread attacking atheists? The thing with many Christians is you guys are confused. I am someone that is regarded as an atheist by my many Christian friends just because I don't believe in a big angry guy sitting on a white chair in the sky and stepping on the earth while looking from one end of the earth to the other continuously. I believe the collective consciousness of all life from cells to every other thing that exists is God

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol, see question!
Definition of nothing = nothing, no thing, nada, zilch. When I say nothing, I mean nothing not a place where things that don't exist go to hang out. Nothing has absolutely no properties immediately you give it properties, you have defined it and it has become something.[/quote]There is no such thing as that

[quote author=Mr_Anony]How can you define this civilization as "them" if there is absolutely no concept of numbers. The concept of numbers are not contingent to our world but are necessary to all possible worlds.[/quote]Unless you can remember building all the worlds that exist, how do you know this?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]It seems you have shifted your argument here because if we follow what you are saying, then nothing can possibly exist because all a thing really is are the properties that define it. For example if I said define a ball, You would say a spherical object. A sphere is not a ball but a "representation". If abstract properties such as the number "1" and "sphere" do not exist, then a ball cannot exist therefore abstracts must exist.[/quote]Erm. Where to start?
1. I haven't shifted my arguments
2. Refer back to beginning of topic where we were asking if anything really exists
3. A ball itself is a representation of what it is made up of [atoms] [which at its most basic is energy] just like a sphere itself is the representation of what it is made up of [ideas] [which at its most basic is also energy]. this energy can arrange itself in whatever pattern it wishes to. Plato said something along the lines that He could look at a rose and see beauty and also look at a woman and see beauty. He concluded that both are representations of the goddess of beauty

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Anyone can claim anything[/quote]Yes I agree and I would have left it at that if you claimed the state of nirvana cannot be attained. I haven't attained it myself so I can't be certain of it. You can't however dictate what happens in that state when you yourself haven't attained it. If you say it's possible then I think its wiser to listen to who claims to have attained it

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Actually no, numbers are similarly infinite. Physical things cannot be infinite but non-physical things can.[/quote]Once again numbers are representations of the real thing

[quote author=Mr_Anony]My friend, this bit still makes no sense. If indeed one loses his/her identity, then such a one has ceased to exist and what now exists is the "everything" that he/she has melted into. You can't have it both ways. You cannot lose your identity and still have it, you cannot be and yet not be. You can't eat your cake and have it.[/quote]But you can have it both ways. If you are going to agree to that logic, then the author claimed He did it.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Even if Anony was infinite, there is no way he can be and yet not be. For instance we perceive space and numbers as infinite concepts but it is logically incoherent to claim that numbers exist and yet do not exist. That is terrible logic.[/quote]We all know there are such things as Numbers however imagine a civilization that is totally oblivious to the idea of numbers. Numbers don't exist to them because its not in their reality however numbers which our ideas have made real to us are simply representations of the real thing and really do not exist at all. That's the way everything is. representations of the real thing that exist to us because our ideas have made it so. It's not terrible logic if i claim that numbers exist and do not exist just like everything else

Or better still in the subatomic world it is possible for subatomic particles such as photons to materialize out of nowhere for no reason whatsoever and disappear after a while. Such subatomic particles when disappeared still exist as "everything" in their world yet they can become something somewhere for one reason or another. That everything in their world is a field or a wave. Electrons for instance exist as a field all around an atom and yet they can become a particle for a while. If we assume that the field around an atom is all that exists then that electron is nothing in particular because it is everything and yet it can choose to become something separate from everything else

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Bros, this is even more confusing but then your statement here makes my point which is that if God isn't anything in particular, then God is nothing i.e does not exist. At best all you have done is provide a synonym for the word "everything" and call it "God".[/quote]Ok. Let's not use the term God. Let's use the term "Fabric of the Universe" as it is known in China. That is the material on which the whole universe or infinity is built. Really try to grasp the idea of infinity then answer my question. What can be infinite? What I feel the answer should be is nothing, because once you try to describe it, it has become finite... Now that "nothing" which is infinite is actually something to you which you can now call God.
On a related note i think our minds are also infinite but once we try to describe our mind or ourselves, for example when you accept a name or an identity you mind has stopped being infinite and become something which is the identity you have accepted. The Buddha tried to explain this when he talked about the the state of nirvana which means to stop being or to lose your identity and attain a mind state of everything. If that state is attained, Mr_Anony exists yet doesn't exist in the sense that you are now everything so for all intents and purposes you no longer exist as yourself and yet if i tried to describe you, you would be Mr_Anony even though you are still capable of being anything else

[quote author=Mr_Anony]So you have made two illogical statements
2. That the being devoid of consciousness made a conscious decision.[/quote]I don't think the idea was that God as pure energy was devoid of consciousness. I think it was that God as we call it didn't know itself as God because there was nothing to compare itself to.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]So you have made two illogical statements

1. That something both is and is not[/quote]I think "God" in this case is God as "pure energy" and not everything else. in other words only God as pure energy existed and nothing else did. and God as pure energy later became everything else. So on the question of whether "God" exists or not, for God to exist it has to be relative to something which isn't God. In that sense, there is both God as pure energy and not God as relative to something else which isn't God... Sounds confusing to me who is even typing it I think the summary of what I'm trying to say is that the idea of God as relative to something else which isn't God doesn't exist Yet God itself as pure energy exists as everything and once something is everything it isn't something in particular because it is all there is. You can't call it something such as God or whatever because once you do, it has then become something. Try to grasp you mind around the idea of infinity.

greatgenius1: separation! Separation! Separation! The illusion that we are separated and not one is the reason for wars….
As within so without. The world seems like a confused place because you are.. Physicality or, your outside world is as a result or reflection of your inner world. You want your world to be free of confusion and wars then create a better world within. Think positive thoughts, be your brother’s keeper, see the good in yourself and others, do unto others as you would unto yourself, think loving thoughts and your world will change.. There is only one of us and your world or everything and everyone you see is a creation or reflection of your higher self... What you do unto others you do to self and what you do for self you do unto others… so what do you CHOOSE?..

But answered another way like i asserted earlier it is because of our wrong and negative thinking combined with its choices...we can return to our edenic nature this very moment if we choose to make the right choices...don't worry though a time will come when humans will have evolve much highly in spiritual awareness. wars and epidemics will be no more.. its a process.. Just hope we dont drop the ball again and self-destruct like we did the last time when humanity was at this juncture of its evolution…. i believe in my heart that we won't.. this era will be the time of the great awakening and i believe many will awake to the task

As within so without... One thing that puzzles me is why Africans are quick to complain about racism and yet majority subscribe to the ideas of the most racist Gods

What's with all the hidden posts? This is driving me insane

[quote author=Atheist:-D]So are you a jew?[/quote]Lol. That's a weird question. Are there any Jews on nairaland? I'm a Nigerian by the way

[quote author=Atheist:-D]You dont sound like a typical xtian... what denomination are you? [/quote]I subscribe to the ideas that Hermes Trismegistus had and also the ideas of Yehuda Bar Yeshua who will come to be known as Jesus Christ. The problem is that Roman politicians completely changed everything from the names to the records and so on. Those guys really wrought confusion and ignorance on the world in their quest to control people. Well their weapon [The roman catholic church] eventually turned on them.

[quote author=frank3.16]1. do u believe in the bible?
2. why are we really hear on earth and experiencing pain, terror, fear, sadness, death etc, what is really there to gain.
3. if u believe the bible, why did God get angry with adam and eve and punished them? why did he destroy the world during the time of Noah with water?
4. if i have to beleive ur concept of God, then where does sin come in? where does punishment (both here and after life) come in?. i.e is there hell or heaven?
5. why is the world suh a confused place with wars, beliefs, and religion.
6. do u believe there are spiritual forces on earth? if u do can u explain why mony ritual work? or why people hurt, kill or destroy each other through spritual means and it works?

thanks[/quote]I know the questions weren't directed at me but let me answer the ones i can. these are just my opinions though.
1. That's not important but I won't take the bible literally.
2. We are experiencing all these things because of the illusion of separation. When we came to this earth, if we didn't give ourselves the illusion that we were separate, we would have still known that we are all the same thing which is God which defeats the purpose of God separating itself in the first place as greatgenius1 described.
3. Not literal stories
4. They don't come in. I think after death people who have attached themselves so much to the earth and think the same way would be unable to move on to the next stage of experiencing the universe and would be stuck in their own made-up "heaven or hell"
5. Back to this illusion of separation. Everyone or group of people seeing themselves as an individual entity separate from everyone else will inevitably try to become better than everyone else and gain control over others. This causes all the world's ills such as wars, beliefs e.t.c It would seem beliefs and ideas even have a life of their own with their own fight or flee response when faced with a threatening inconsistent idea and ideas look for consistent ideas just the way animals do in a social setting... but i digress
6. In our infinite dimensions [dimensions are the speed of vibrations of that reality] 1 dimensional objects are cells and the like 2 dimensional objects go to multicellular organisms 3 dimensions variations move to small and big animals and so on. The difference in dimensional beings is the power of our thoughts and how fast the vibrations can translate into reality. Now there are 4 dimensional beings and so on to infinity. And just the way cells cannot understand the laws of the universe we understand and how we bring our thoughts to reality, so can we not understand what higher dimensional beings do. and just the way cells cannot see us for what we are so can we not see these higher dimensional beings for what they are even though they are there. But the closest higher dimension to us which is the 4th can be accessed in some ways by people who subject their mind and thoughts to certain processes and begin to understand some other laws of the universe... It is said in some places that man had once gotten to the 4th dimensional stage but fell back down the dimensional ladder for one reason or another... but i digress again. Anyway these dimensional beings that come to be known as angels or demons or whatever understand laws we don't.
All I've said here is speculation though

greatgenius: Just as the soul of "God" is that which contains the universe and holds it together.

Could the soul of God be dark matter or dark energy? Science doesn't really understand what it is but it is prevalent in the universe and kind of holds it together