I am not sure but I know that in SA crime is more abundant than in Nigeria

Posted by: kenshin
This will now prove whether he is a man who practices what he preaches!

Exactly!!

Furthermore, as long as he is not as bad as Igbinedion then I think Edo state is safe

Afeni:


As Nigeria is now, its very easy to pass the blame to the Hausas, Yorubas or Ibos, but once the country is split into 3, each area would have only themselves to blame for when things go wrong. As for the smaller minority groups, they can join along the majority of ethnic group in their zone (1 out of the 3 zones) they share a lot in common with the majority (See: Yoruba, Itsekery and Edo).

What if the smaller minority ethnic groups want their own country and don't want to join up with the hausa, yoruba or igbos?

Afeni:

If I were you, I will not be so quick to accept the sugar coated history that your elders are spreading.

Ah ah!! Wetin now. My point is that you have your version of history and we have ours. I am not accusing you of accepting "the sugar coated history that your elders are spreading" so I don't understand why you are acusing me. Please chill  

jjo:

for what it's worth the whole bini and yoruba thing is a bit more complex each side have their own version of the same story and there's no sure way of telling which is true.

very true


@ Afeni
Your link is not working. Can you paste it again

Afeni:


The Maps of the entire West Africa, Central Africa and Eastern Africa needs to be redrawn. It is completely wrong. Why are Yorubas and the people of Dahomey in seperate countries? Why are people in Benin city not considered Yorubas even though they have been ruled by Yoruba kings for hundreds of years?

HOLD UP! Because that is not how the Bini's tell their own history. There were Bini Kings ruling the Benin Kingdom before Oranmiyan came to Benin. And we believe he was the son of a Benin King that had been banished. Furthermore, Oranmiyan did not stay long in Benin. He left his son from a Bini woman to rule Benin. You can read some more info here
http://www.edofolks.com/html/hist.htm
I realise that everyone has their own history. I just wanted to draw your attention to the fact that the Bini's don't believe the whole " The Bini's have been ruled by Yoruba Kings for Hundreds of years" bit so that we don't take it as taken for granted.

@Davidylan,
I agree with your arguement which I think reinforces what I said that multiple and complex factors go into our experiences in life. While looking at "race "as the only determining factor of an outcome gives us a skewed view of why blacks are predominant in athletics; on the other hand, looking at "race" as only one factor of the whole picture (i.e. multiple and complex factors) is a better way of looking at things. So yeah I agree with you

Now back to Xkape
You said:

People of Indo-Europian stock have shown over time that they are very adept at organizing large groups for productive endevour.

This just seems like a gross over-generalization with no proof to back it up. What are you saying here. When Africans built great Zimbabwe was this not a productive endeavor? When we built as you said pyramids and the sphinx, was this not a productive endeavor? When we built the Universities of Cairo and Timbuktu, I guess we were not engaging in productive endeavors. And when we built the Bini Kingdom, the Zulu Kingdom, the Kanem, Mali, Asante, Songhay Kingdoms, were we not engaged in productive endeavours?

Even Modern day Botswana is engaged in [I]productive endeavour[/I] check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana

Since independence, Botswana has had the fastest growth in per capita income in the world. Economic growth averaged over 9% per year from 1966 to 1999. The government has maintained a sound fiscal policy, despite consecutive budget deficits in 2002 and 2003, and a negligible level of foreign debt. It earned the highest sovereign credit rating in Africa and has stockpiled foreign exchange reserves (over $5.1 billion in 2003/2004) amounting to almost two and one half years of current imports. Botswana's impressive economic record has been built on the foundation of wisely using revenue generated from diamond mining to fuel economic development through prudent fiscal policies and a cautious foreign policy. Debswana, the only diamond mining company operating in Botswana, is 50% owned by the government and generates about half of all government revenues

They have also shown they are less impassioned and more objective in their world-view.

Really? Are apartheid, slavery, segregation and the modern day treatment of Native Indians in North America examples of an "Objective World-View"? Maybe you should elaborate on what you mean here because I am not sure I understand what you mean by this.

When was the last time u saw a white man in the finals of any major 100m dash? Who are those that produce arguably the most soulful music in the world. We accept stereotypes like black people having higher libido than whites and facts like we are physically superior in some sports but when someone suggests white superiority in other aspects we cry RACISM. why the double standard?

The reason why there are few whites in 100m dash has less to do with "physical superiority" and more to do with sociological factors. I can bet money on this: there are ,many whites who can perform just as well as black people and if not better when it comes to sports. The question we should be asking our selves is how come black people are more visible in some sports than they are in other sports. In Canada, it is a known fact that there are more white people in ice hockey than black people. The reason is not because white people are better at it but it is due to other factors like cost of equipment, lack of black role models in ice-hockey to look up to, ideology of the sport and other things as well. So tell me if we lived in the period of segregation in America when blacks were not allowed to particiapte in sports that whites participated in would you actually believe that whites were more superior to blacks just because you did not see any in sports? Once again social factors have more to do with blacks and sports than race or physiology.

Secondly we cannot argue that black people produce the most soulful music in the world because ART ( music, paintings, fashion, design) is subjective!!

The stereotype that black people have a higher libido than white people has been scientifically disproven time and again. Plus that stereotype was perpetuated by white people to justify the rape and over-sexualisation of black people ( Read Bell Hooks)
I may be prejudiced ( and I believe that 99% of us are) but I definitely do not ascribe to the above stereotypes because life ( our experiences and circumstances) is made up of multiple and complex factors and cannot simply be reduced to "superiority", "inferiority" or race
And probably the people that believe in those stereotypes don't know any better but that does not make them true or acceptable.

I apologise for breaking up my post like this but I find that reading one lengthy post can be tiresome

As a human being, in his totality, no one is superior to another . But as groups of people, that is another issue

If you are implying that groups of people can be superior to other groups of people then this is contradictory. You imply that no human being is superior to another but groups of people can be superior to other groups of people. But aren't groups of people made up of individual human beings? If individual human beings are contained in groups of people and no individual human being is superior to another individual human being then it necessarily follows that no group of people are superior to other groups of people.

Furthermore, the fact that you actually imply this reinforces my point that although you do not say with your mouth that you are inherently inferior to white people you imply it with your thinking and your arguments.

I can agree when you say that

every group has their areas of comparative advantage

. I can say yes at a certain time in history and in a certain place certain people can do better than others in certain aspects/fields but I would never use that to say that it means that the group doing better at that point in time in that particular field is superior. Superior is such a wrong choice of word.

with all due respect afrobeat. this is total bollox.
Please spare me the be-proud-of yourself-as -an African mantra. Its old, tired and has not stood the test of time.
I know exactly what I am, what I can do, what I can't. I don't need any validation from anybody or any association or comparison with any race, black or white

I am not doing the whole be -proud - of- yourself as an African mantra. I am simply saying that your reasoning is FAULTY/ILLOGICAL.

That aside, why are we all afraid to call a spade a spade?

I am not afraid to call a spade a spade. I know that our rulers in Africa have sucked big time. I know that after colonialism most of us made a mess out of democracy. The reason why things were so bad after colonialism is a complex issue and cannot simply be reduced to "Africans being inferior, stupid, ignorant, " or whatever you want to call it.
Many factors have contributed to the current state of affairs in African countries such as bad leadership, neo-colonialism, tribalism, and other things. To reduce the fact that many African countries are underdeveloped simply to us being deficient is reductionism. Most things in life happen for a variety of complex and multiple reasons.


In addition, Colonialism really began to take off in the late 1800's and early 1900's . African people have been in existence for thousands if not millions of year before colonialism. In fact don't they argue that we were the first people in history. In addition we had many great Kingdoms and people such as the Yoruba, Bini's Hausa, Asante, Zulu's Nubians e.t.c. These Kingdoms all had great histories and were successful  for certain periods of history, often hundreds of years. Many of these kingdoms were so successful that Even the Europeans knew of us and wanted to hang with us.

Now fast forward to modern day Africa after colonialism. The truth is that many of the African countries have made a mess of our nations since the end of colonialism. However xkape it seems as though you are making negative judgments about the nature of African people  based on only 50 years or so  of  life after colonialism.  Africans have done many positive things in the past and just because in the present we are making a mess of ourselves that does not mean that we are overall, inherently, have always been and will always be Inferior, stupid, or whatever other word you want to use.

For example, "The Kingdom of Benin was a widespread empire that flourished from the 14th to the 19th century." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Benin). After colonialism ended in 1960, and during the military rule and even in this current administration, Benin has deteriorated and is now practically in shambles . But it would be ILLOGICAL for me to say that Benin people are inferior to Europeans based only on 46 years of history when from the 14th century to the 19th century Benin was flourishing.

Nwoke:

I would vote for him, but i would like him to start out in the house of representatives or something if he has that ambition.

yeah i agree

pascal:

@larger_20


I am very sure this Geographical expression call Nigeria will not disintegrate not even at this stage of our nationhood.

We shall overcome!!

kimba:

No problem, at least we are still rooting in the top-25,

that means we beat about 75% of other countries.

LOL!!!

Nwoke:

International rankings do not matter to me. What matters more is what we experiencing as a Nigerians living in Nigeria. It's better to listen the common man's experience than to random international agencies.

I agree with you

I think if everybody else is getting Nuclear weapons then we should as well. As soon as it is possible of course. After we have put food on our tables

xkape:

But seriously, Africans have shown over time they cannot rule themselves or determine right from wrong, let alone self. And don't bring any be-proud -of-Africa rhetoric because the onus is on us to disprove the above statements

Furthermore there are many of you on this board that believe that South Africa would not be as developed as they are now without the whites there. While this may or may not be true I find it really insulting or rather I feel a lot of pity for those of you Africans that look in the mirror everyday and think to yourself that White people are inherently better than you as a black person.
Because although you are not saying so with your mouth you are saying so with your thoughts and philosophy. For example by xkape saying that

Africans have shown over time they cannot rule themselves or determine right from wrong, let alone self.

xkape is implying that he as an African is incapable of ruling his people and determinig right from wrong. We all should be careful about the way we use our mouths to curse ourselves because the power of life and death is in the tongue.

xkape:


But seriously, Africans have shown over time they cannot rule themselves or determine right from wrong, let alone self. And don't bring any be-proud -of-Africa rhetoric because the onus is on us to disprove the above statements

Are you for real?!!!! What ethnic group do you come from in Nigeria? Are you going to tell me that your ethnic group was not ruling themselves before oyinbo people came to Africa? Come On!!!

I know for a fact that my people, the Bini's were ruling themselves properly before the Europeans came.

On another note Christianity was already in Africa before the Europeans came to colonise us. A classic example is that of Ethiopia. Christianity was their national religion for years!!!And please do not say that it would never have spread to western Africa and other parts of Africa without colonialism. There were missionaries in many countries before the Europeans decided they wanted to colonise us. We were trading and interacting with Europeans before colonialism. Ofcourse their religions would have spread to us as well through interaction. Africa would have continued changing and developing even without colonialism, because it is impossible for a people (continent ) to live in isolation from the world. Africans had already been to North America before colonialism ( see the Olmecs http://www.essaysbyekowa.com/olmecs.htm ) I am saying here that it is presumptious of us to say ( or imply, or look at this topic in such a way) that without colonialism Africans would have been stagnant in development. That is impossible because it goes against every law of the World, Life, Nature. There is a saying that goes there is nothing permanent except change

Who can really say whether colonialism was good for Africa?
If I said that colonialism was good for Africa, it would be saying that without colonialism African countries would be in a worse off situation? Can I really imagine a situation worse than Rwanda, Somalia, Congo, Liberia, e.t.c. I honestly find it hard to imagine a situation worse than what many African countries are currently experienceing

freddie!:

She is a real Nigerian beauty!

yeah she is HOT

<Off topic> You know who else I think is Hot? Genevieve Nnaji. She is on fire!!

Fdeveloper:

Putting asside the question of whether or not I'm a fan of spraying, surely the main point is that what I do with my money is entirely my own business and I don't think it's up to the state to legislate on such matters.

I'm sure the majority of Nigerians will agree with me that there are a large number of far more pressing issues that require urgent government attention!

I think this bill is just a waste of time too.

As said previously there are more pressing things that the government needs to deal with like electricity,water, security and roads

Idekeson:

You have to outsmart her in her suicidal belief in voodoo/miracles. Suggest to your mum to hire a "preacher" with claims of deliverance for her. Preacher should suggest that in addition to his remedy, your aunt will have to see a specialist. She is likely to heed to the instruction.

I agree,
Let her know that you believe it is a spiritual attack and then tell her that sometimes sicknesses should be solved with prayer and the advise of a doctor as well.

DAMMYGLOW:

there are a whole lot of them
but i prefer ' I GO DIE "

Thank you very much!!
I go die is just sooo awesome

Is it right that people have more children than they can manage and push the responsibility of raising children unto their eldest?

My parents took care of all their children, however if they ever fell on difficult times and we could help out of course we helped. It depends on the situation. If the parents are just putting their responsibilities on their older children because they are lazy, then that is wrong. But if the parents genuinely need help in taking care of their other kids and the older children can help then why not. If you read the comments of the people in the article, many of them don't look at their situation as burdens but rather as benevolence.

Is failing to plan the number of children that you can succesfully look after a good way to teach responsibility?

There are many factors that go into teaching responsibility. In general if you want your children to grow up with the ideal that they should only have children that they can take of then it would be a good idea for parents to lead by example by only having kids they can take care of. On the other hand older children do learn to be respondible for their younger ones in the situation where they have to take care of their younger siblings.

Is the way in which we raise and treat our children (in Nigeria) a cause for concern?

I am generally concerned about the way children are treated in every country. Everywhere you go you hear about children being maltreated whether it is  sexual abuse, domestic abuse, physical abuse e.t.c. Child abuse is nothing new, it has been happening for years and will continue to happen as long as the world exists.
I think that in Nigeria we need laws that protect the rights of children and we should also enforce these laws and prosecute the people who break these laws. This has to do with the general legal system. Our general legal system needs to get better so that  people who break laws are caught and properly prosecuted.

Is the way in which Nigerian families are 'managed' responsible for the problems we see in the country?

No. To say that the way we manage our families is responible for the problems we see in the country today would be reductionist. What particular problems are you talking about and what aspects of family management or mismanagement will be attributed to these problems. You are also forgetting that within Nigeria different cultures raise families differently. The problems within Nigeria are as a result of wack leaders, corruption, colonialism, neo-colonialism and other things as well

I think renewable and environmentally freindly power generation is the way to go. I know someone involved in solar energy in Naija

you should go for the fun of it and take some pictures for us

Media power can only go so far with Nigerians. Gone are the days when we used to telorate nonsense musical acts especially when there are many good artists rising up

nightrider:

well i think the law makes sense, a lot of people especially in lagos carry small children from villages and take them to cities like lagos to make them slaves. the children are helpless and maltreated.

i love the law. some parents in cross river and akwa ibom and ibo states sell their children of to strangers to make them domestic slaves. i think it's terrible, it's forced child labour.

You see a child of ten years old carrying a massive kg jerry can of water on her head. it's terrible. I had to give one of such kids a lift with the water one day out of pity.

kudos to the creators of the law

I agree.
At least the law is a start towards something better

very interesting, so you are practically saying that the new track you heard was wack

jmsjonah:

I know for a fact that " mo bo lowo won" a song that shot him to lime light was written by Remiragga and JJC of the 419 squad and he did not give credit to them.

WOW that is aweful of him.

I know too well that the downfall of a man is not the end of his life, so" NIGERIA" will rise again

I know that too

I know that the wicked and corrupt leaders of Nigeria will reap their punishments on earth (if they don't repent) and everyone will know why when it happens

I feel you nightrider, i used to wonder as well why it seemed like Africans had contributed nothing to the world but then after reading some stuff recommended to me, I started to think differently. Although sometimes when I look at our circumstances I feel down, I always remind myself that we have done great things in the past and we can do it again.



Here are some recommendations for books:

The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality?  by Cheikh Anta Diop,

Civilization or Barbarism  by Cheikh Anta Diop,

Stolen Legacy by George G.M. James

Pre-colonial Central Africa: Documents of Living History by Theophile Obenga

African Glory: The Story of Vanished Negro Civilizations by J.C. DeGraft-Johnson

How Europe Underdeveloped Africa  by Walter Rodney


Some interesting sites and articles
http://www.afrotoronto.com/Articles/Jan06/BlackAthena.html

Ancient Africa's Black Kingdoms
http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/ancientafrica.html

Journal of African Civilisations
http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/sertima.html

This following was copied from this site http://www.saxakali.com/COLOR_ASP/historymaf.htm

In Ivan Van Sertima's (1984) book Blacks in Science: Ancient and Modern, countless examples of African science from articles by several different authors are given. A few examples are listed below:

1. The Dogon of Mali had an excellent understanding of the solar system and the universe 700 years ago. The Dogon had detailed knowledge of a white dwarf companion star to Sirius A which was not visible to the naked eye. Western scientists stated that there was no way that the Dogon could have uncovered this knowledge on their own and that it must have been supplied to them by a visiting European or an extra- terrestrial visitor.

2. The Yoruba tribe had an exceedingly complex number system based on twenty.

3. A 35,000 year old, fossilized baboon bone found in Zaire, the Ishango bone, is covered with a series of notches or tally marks, which makes it the oldest mathematical object in the world, and the world's earliest number system. The bone is also a lunar phase counter, which suggest that African women were the first mathematicians since keeping track of menstrual cycles requires a lunar calendar.

4. There was a very accurate calendar system in Eastern Africa by the first millenium B.C. (Lynch & Robbins 1984).

5. A megalithic site similar to stonehenge dating to 300 B.C. was found in northwest Kenya. Its nineteen basalt pillars were aligned extremely accurately with the stars and constellations (Lynch & Robbins 1984).

6. A model of a glider dated to the 4th or 3rd century B.C. was found in Egypt. The structure of the object was most definitely aerodynamically designed (Messiha et al. 1984).

7. An iron-ore mine in Swaziland, the oldest found in the world, was dated as 43,000 years old. The ore specularite was used as a cosmetic and pigment (Zaslavsky 1984).

8. Africans developed technology to build sea-worthy boats and the ability to navigate over long expanses of ocean . There is ample evidence to suggest that African explorers reached South and Central America long before Columbus made his journeys (Malloy 1984).

9. 1500 to 2000 years ago near Lake Victoria, carbon steel was made in blast furnaces. The temperature achieved in the furnaces, 1,800C, was much higher than was managed in Europe until modern times (Van Sertima 1984).

10. By the year 1000 AD, in the Middle East, Ibn al-Haytham, a Muslim mathematician and astronomer, was studying atmospheric refraction, and by the 1100s a fellow Muslim, geographer Abu Abdallah Muhammad al-Idrisi, divided the world into seven climatic zones. Climate changes have long since tuned vast savannas and grasslands bodering Africa’s Sahara into desert. Translations of Arabic texts into Latin help spread knowledge of such instruments as the astrolabe.

Ancient African Numerals

Mathematics in Africa started much earlier from the first written numerals of ancient Egypt around 3100 BC. Ancient African calendars made use of numbers and calculation at an early stage. Ancient Africans also discovered and use the concept of zero (see The Discovery of Zero), and wrote several texts on math and other subjects.




some more info

chemistry has its roots, in Ancient Egypt. They used it in the creation of synthetic pigments for clothes.http://africanhistory.about.com/od/hieroglyphs/a/ColorTech.htm

In the Nok culture Iron working, smelting and fabrication of iron tools became widespread in the region from around 350 BCE http://africanhistory.about.com/od/kingdoms/a/NokCulture.htm

nightrider:


maybe i'm undererstimating the overall development of Africa before the europeans came. But i do not believe that we were technologically advanced. Except someone can prove me wrong.

First, I am not sure about what your definition of "technologically advanced"is.

I think you are underestimating the overall development of Africa before colonialism. I used to as well until I started doing some research into Africa before colonialism. The other thing you have to note is that even in Europe and Asia there are ethnic groups or nations that have advanced at a faster rate than others even in pre-colonialism times and post-colonialism times. Also take note of some of the feats that "ancient" people achieved that even in this day and age and with our "technological advancement" scientists can't figure out how they did it. For example The Pyramids, The Gambia stones

However before colonialism Africa was progressing at her own rate. We may not have invented gun powder and guns however we were inventing technology that worked for us at that time. I guess most people ask the question of what led some cultures to invent things like guns, gun powder, e.t.c. Many people have tried to answer this question by giving theories like it was the difference in weather, geography e.t.c. YOu can try reading this book Guns, germs, and steel : the fates of human societies by Jared Diamond.

The other issue is that before slavery and colonialism Africans were considered to be equals with europeans. The Bini people sent Ambassadors to portugal and the Oba of Bini( I can't remember which one) was speaking and writing portugese before colonialism. Historians have said that even up until a few years after colonialism there still existed a group of Bini people who could speak a pidgin of portugese. Once again if you read some of the history you will see that the earliest portugese people in the Bini KIngdom wrote that they were very impressed with the organisation of the Bini kingdom. And it even goes as far as the art work that europeans were creating then. In some of the art work black people were represented in clothes talking to Europe's Kings and Queens. The representation and feelings about African people changed from positive to negative when Europe wanted to Colonise Africa. They started writing stuff about us being babarians, uncouth, backwards e.t.c. so that they could justify their colonialism. The history people know about AFrica is the one that has been written by the European world to justify their treatment of Africans during colonialism and slavery.

However you asked about Africa and technological advancement , I will post some links in my next post

nightrider:

while europe was building ships and railwaylines, we were going nuts over simple things like mirrors.

at this time we were also building pyramids
establishing the great universities and libraries of Timbuktu and Cairo
perfecting the art of ivory, bronze, and teracotta sculptures
domesticating the coffee plant
Shaka Zulu was building an army of thousands of people and inventing military strategies
Great Zimbabwe was thriving
The gold trade was in full form
Decendants of Black African Moors were ruling spain, ( they ruled for 700 years)
The city of Aksum ( where the Ark of the covenant resides) was thriving
we were practising mathematics ( http://www.africahistory.net/lumpkin.htm http://www.africahistory.net/kani.htm)
and much more

So just because we were not
planning the Atlantic slave trade or
planning how to go into North America to kill entire tribes of Native peoples or
planning how to colonise entire continents
does not mean we were backwards.

Every civilisation has their time. Currently it is time for the west and soon our time will come again.