₦airaland Forum

mzilakazi:
All your Otomat will be destroyed by the valours CIWS system from a distance of 3km and dissolve into thin Air. Bwahahahaha..... The valour is not a weak warship. It is protected in all areas.

There is ONLY ONE CIWS gun on Valour frigates and it's at the back of the ship unable to stop an Otomat missile coming from the front. NN is attacking your ship from the weakpoint....the front...we sink you to sea bottom, all your 4 navy frigates die in 5 minutes
.

jl115:
Sorry buddy but my source is directly from the manufacturer, thus by default its the most accurate.

Mumu, my PDF file is manufacturers specifications fact sheet. Mumu
.

MikeCZAR:
Back to your 15 years claim?

SAAF pilots are well trained. What was the kill ratio during Lion effort?

No aircraft was shot down in Lion Effort, it was a game not real combat. The claims of SAAF defeating the air force pilots of Sweden that sold Gripen to you is a fairy tale propaganda lie that even my 10 year old cousin will dispute
.

patches689:
So now we have gone from "stealth" to "minimum signature"

The world stealth means minimum radar signature. Olodo
.

mzilakazi:
The only army that needs upgrade is no one other than Nigerian army. SA is using modern mortars not the mortars with tripods where you will always have to run with bloody tripods everywhere you go.

Hey mumu, the Nigerian photo with 3 arrows shows you a knee mortar with NO tripod, it sits on a small base plate.

NA has advanced becasue of current battle experience, SANDF is at home photographing knee mortars for Hollywod shows, when you have courage to ever go to war, you will learn that the big disadvantage of knee mortars is that you hold them with your hands and when you are in long battle the metal gets hot due to sustained firing and SANDF has to stop while Nigerian army keeps firing with support from tripod stand.

SANDF will soon send officers to learn practical art of war in Nigerian military academy
.

mzilakazi:
Yet, you failed to take note of 25 fighter pilots on training. They qualified on 2009, done the training on the hawks and now few of them made it to the gripen.

Jet pilot qualification is a yearly ritual, you may qualify last year with minimum required flying hours, and you become disqualified this year if your hours of flying drops below minimum for this year.

Mister Ignoramus
.

MikeCZAR:
Your missiles are expired.


Show us how often Nigeria issues contracts for the manufacture to maintain any of your missiles.

Show me where Venezuela issued contract for manufacturer to maintain there own.

I also need you to show me documents issued by South Africa for manufacturers to maintain all your Milan missiles and Exocet missiles in the last decade
.

MikeCZAR:
In Nigeria nothing is removed.

That's because they have money to support and maintain them this isn't the case with Nigeria. Your missiles expired during the sanctions era, as you couldn't maintain them.

Wrong, Venezuela suffers more sanctions than Nigeria, they are enemy to America and NATO has been punishing Venezuela with sanctions, reason why they now want to buy JF-17 Thunder for Venezuelan air force.

Nigeria's sanctions era ended 1999 and NNS Aradu was upgraded around 2005 by Nigeria and America joint venture.

Come to Lagos with a Valour frigate and kiss my Otomat missile, it out-ranges your 73km Exocet of which you have only 13 units while Nigeria has 40 Otomats.

Let your P.u.ssy Cat visit our Lion's den, we need free breakfast
.

jl115:
Paramount offering a whole new type of Gowind class OPV:
www.paramountgroup.biz/PDF/Naval-Systems/87m_gowind_leaflet.pdf

France offered Gowind OPV to Nigeria last year asking us to buy one and build the second one domestically in Nigeria with full technology transfer, Nigerian navy may not accept the offer, we are asking to build up to 8 more units of stealth P18N NNS Centenary
.

patches689:
Augustus you are wasting everyones time

No you are the time waster, until I used photo screenshots to draw 3 arrows and open your cataract blinded eyes to see that the Nigerian photo contains two separate knee mortars, one attached to a tripod stand and the other standing alone on the tiny base plate leaning on the other mortar, you didn't use your blocked head to think out what the picture shows.

It took almost 24 hours to teach you Domingos a very simple principle of knee mortars and their use on battle field in real war, SANDF knee mortar photos are Hollywood demos, Nigerian knee mortars are in use in war zone and when the metal gets hot due to sustained fire, Nigeria has attachable and collapsible mini tripod stand to hold the mortar and keep firing while South Africa has to stop firing their own.

SANDF is inferior to Nigerian army. We have many new weapons that the photos have not even come to public view yet
.

jl115:
I mean look at our Valours, they are armed like ships twice their size, they really are unbelievably well armed for their size.

Bwahahahaha

South African military experts prove you a liar and a fraud, South Africans hate the Valour frigates because the warships are poorly armed like if they are a missile fitted OPV....

Publication: The Star Issued: Date: 2007-02-24 Reporter: Michael Schmidt
Has SA Invested in Weak Ships?



Publication
The Star

Date
2007-02-24

Reporter

Michael Schmidt
Web Link

www.thestar.co.za



Serious questions have been raised over the strike capability of the expensive new ships of the South African Navy (SAN). A new independent study claims they are vulnerable to attack from submarines, aircraft and warships, and have little ability to perform the key role of gunboat diplomacy through offshore bombardment.

These critiques emerge from an unpublished and unauthorised manuscript on the South African National Defence Force, A Guide to the SANDF, by defence analyst Leon Engelbrecht. It is the first study of the armed forces in 16 years.

Engelbrecht argues that the four new Valour-class frigates and three new Type 209 submarines are too light in their weapons and defensive counter-measures departments. This is the part of South Africa's multibillion-rand arms deal currently proving most controversial - because of an alleged $3-million (R21-million) bribe paid by the frigate's builders, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, to former arms acquisition programme head Chippy Shaik.

But Helmoed-Römer Heitman, the Southern African correspondent for Jane's Defence Weekly and author of a similar study, South African Armed Forces (1990), said Engelbrecht had failed to take into account the significant upgrades planned for the naval weapons systems *2, the choices for which would become clear only as the new navy's role developed *3.

Rear Admiral Kevin Watson, the navy's project director for the acquisition of the vessels, confirmed that the bulk of the expenditure on the frigates (65%) had been on the ships, not their weapons systems. This, he admitted, was at odds with the international norm of a 70% ship/30% weapons split.

As a result, according to Engelbrecht, while the ships were top notch, there were significant weaknesses in the weapons, and the counter-measures the ships were able to deploy against enemy attack.

The frigates will be armed with eight Exocet missiles, 16 Umkhonto missiles, a single turreted Denel 76mm gun, Oerlikon 20mm cannons and a South African Denel/Reutech 35mm cannon.

According to Engelbrecht, the frigate's "current armament [was] suited only for limited, short-duration self-defence". Its "land-attack capability [was] limited to guns too light for the task" and it had "no land attack missiles". This inability to add muscle to incursions ashore is underlined by Engelbrecht's argument that "the [Valour] class deliberately lacks a land- attack cruise missile capability for political reasons: such weapons are seen by some as 'too aggressive' and out of keeping with the Valour-class's 'defensive posture' *5.

"However, like its peers, the SAN recognises the growing importance of fighting in the littoral battle-space and supporting land forces … As a result, a missile land-attack capability is likely to be added as funds become available and sensitivities are assuaged."

Heitman said that budgeting, not political shyness, had delayed the development of the navy's land-attack capacity. Still, in Engelbrecht's estimation, the frigates' existing weapons were not up to scratch:

The French anti-ship "Exocet missile was too slow to penetrate modern air defences and too short-ranged to allow the mothership adequate stand-off to evade detection and response … Some commentators have criticised the choice of the Exocet … because of its lack of land-attack ability … Others have hammered the system for its age (developed in 1967), its low relative speed and small warhead, compared with some more modern systems such as the Indo-Russian BrahMos *6," which was touted to the SAN at last year's Africa Aerospace and Defence show in Cape Town.

Heitman suspected the SAN had bought one Exocet and leased the rest *6, but would upgrade to the latest, longer-range (173km) model, which had land-attack capabilities. The SAN was also interested in the supersonic 300km-range BrahMos cruise missile.

The South African Denel Umkhonto-IR is a short-range (12km) anti-aircraft missile, which is still in its development stage, having been "tested only to a limited extent", while "several navies and air forces already have supersonic anti-ship missiles. How the Umkhonto will deal with these is not known." The frigates can have their capacity doubled to 32 Umkhontos, but will probably carry only eight missiles and so "can easily be swamped by saturation attack *7".

Also, after a missile has been fired, empty launch canisters have to be removed from their silos, but: "As far as can be determined, this cannot be done by the Valour-class at sea, [so] reloading will have to be done alongside [in port] or require a replenishment vessel, as a depot ship, in calm seas".

Heitman admitted the missiles might have difficulty intercepting supersonic assaults, but said the Finns' recent acquisition of the Umkhonto and Sweden's interest showed the missile was taken seriously. He added that no navy was able to reload its vertically launched anti-aircraft missiles at sea.

The Italian OTOBreda 76mm cannons were acquired for the Warrior-class strike-craft in 1977 and four reconditioned ones were fitted to the frigates as "an interim cost-saving measure. Senior naval officers are well aware the gun is too small to effectively support forces ashore."

Heitman agreed, but also echoed Engelbrecht in saying the SAN was looking to replace the 76 with a navalised 155mm gun, which could use Denel's world-class G5 and G6 ammunition. Such a long-rage gun, rather than missiles, would be able to bombard enemy air bases, gun emplacements and ports. But this, Heitman argued, would be relevant only once the SAN had acquired multi-role ships capable of landing troops to secure beachheads softened by such bombardment.

In addition, the frigates were not fitted with torpedoes (as they were capable of), and its anti-submarine warfare ability was very basic, Watson admitted. Heitman said "there's absolutely f*** all [the frigates] can do to a submarine except ram it *7".

But the frigates would all go through "a massive upgrade" of their weapons, counter-measure and weapons-control systems in the coming years, he said.

Watson said the frigates' helicopters would initially be used in a surveillance role because they increased the ships' line of sight from 37km to 555km *9.

Politics & Power is a new analytical weekly feature
With acknowledgements to Michael Schmidt and The Star.


*1 What about the $22 million (R156 million) payments paid by the frigate's builders, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, to other South African's via Monrovia, Liberia (the country with the slackest corporate law and regulations in the world).


*2 Heitman of course is correct in the fact. The Navy purchased an excellent platform with very weak combat system.

But it was not meant to be that way. The SA Navy Combat Suite User Requirement Specification specifies a very powerful combat capability in respect of anti-surface offence, as well as anti-air and anti-submarine defence.

The only thing was that once Thabo Mbeki guaranteed Thomson-CSF and ADS the contract for the combat management system and sensors in 1997 (two years before the contract was signed), the DoD and Armscor were over a barrel. Suddenly and R1,9 billion fully-fledged combat suite went up to R3,9 billion (with Chippy Shaik gleefully rubbing his enrichment
lamp all the way). With a little hard bargaining, but mainly cutting the quantity and quality (quote, unquote) of the combat suite scope of supply, the project team brought the price down from R3,9 billion to some R2,9 billion. Then with a risk sharing approach, as well as the probably exclusion of the price of the anti-ship missiles, the price went down to R2,3 billion and was "in reach of the then price objective" of R2,1 billion. But Chippy pipes up with the affordability study indicating an [acceptable] price of R2,600 billion and so the negotiations ended forthwith and the price went up to and closed at R2,599 billion on the nose. The R300 million sounds more like the wonga splodged by Thomson-CSF in its excitement of getting such a windfall.


*3 This of course is nonsense.

During 1995 to 1997 the Defence Review was undertaken. This confirmed the SA Navy's documented Naval Staff Requirement (NSR) for a multi-role light frigate with the specified combat capability.

The only thing was that the Government's irregular and unlawful acquisition process lead to a situation where the specified capability and equipment were unaffordable in 1999 compared with the ceiling price of R6,001 determined in August 1998.

So the DoD had to embarked on a series of very stealthy (and unlawful) manouvres to get a frigate. First it chopped its organic maritime helicopter, then it added R872 million to it "ceiling" price, then it halved its equipment expectation, then it didn't purchase but leased its anti-ship missiles, then it purchased functionality shortfalls out of the SA Navy's running budget.

Now the DoD is again purchasing maritime helicopters, new anti-ship missiles, torpedoes and a decent naval gun (not a 40-year old 3" pop gun off the strike craft).

This is called fiscal stealth and makes the radar and thermal stealth of the MEKO 200AS look like child's play.


*4 Wrong - the international norm of a multi-role surface combatant is 30% platform / 70% weapons.

But the ship's stealthy acquirers will eventually get the requisite 30% platform / 70% weapons.

Here's what the taxpayer will pay :
Combat Suite = R2,599 billion = 30% (in 1998 Rands)
Combat Suite = 70% = R6,064 billion (in 1998 Rands) = R11,109 billion (in 2007 Rands)

*5 This is also nonsense. The land attack capability is purely a tactical one. The Exocet MM40 Block 2 has a range of some 70 km and a warhead of 165 kg. Even if it had a land attack capability the range and small warhead limit it to a tactical battlefield weapon.

Exocet MM40 Block 3 (or equivalent) has a land attack capability, but still has a range of about 150 km.

Seeing that the ship only has eight ASM launchers the entire naval arsenal is only 32 rounds and these beast cost about US$20 apiece, one couldn't just blast away into one's enemy's territory.

A politically sensitive land attack missile is one with a range of greater than 500 km and payload of greater than 300 kg. For example, one of Bat Boy's favourite early morning diversions is authorising the launch of the Tomahawk Land Attack Cruise Missile. This beastie has a range of 2 500 km and carries a warhead of some 500 kg. And they only cost US$0,5 million a pop - now that's a bargain.


*5 And the Chinese "Dragon's Teeth" series.

These all have ranges of 250 km up to 2 000 km, massive warheads from 250 kg up to 500 kg and supersonic speeds from 2,0 Mach to 2,8 Mach.

It's a nightmare.


*6 Quite how this fits into the boundaries of the Public Finance Management Act, heaven only knows.

But it gets worse. What Heitman is now saying in the open has been suspected since 2001.

On enquiry, the MoD has stated unequivocally (or is it actually equivocally) that the SDP corvette price included 17 Exocet MM40 Block 2 missile rounds in addition to launch tubes and launch controllers.

If it transpires that the MoD has been lying, it should be in big, big trouble with SCOPA.


*7 And saturation attack is just what the Chinese anti-ship tactic is all about - 4 to 6 missiles simultaneously engaging from all four quadrants plus the lovely zenith-diving one.

Should keep Reutech Radar Systems's Optronic Radar Tracker (ORT) and Mtek's Electro-Optic Tracker (EOT) quite busy for those 43,2 seconds from missile detect to who knows what.

As for Thomson-CSF's Threat Evaluation and Weapon Assignment (TEWA) function, let's just hope that this can converge in the saturated space of Mach 2,8 multiple incoming bogies, garlic, escargot, bribes to get the contract, bribes to cover up the investigation and a dose of charming gallic candour.


*8 Which is quite difficult when the submarine has dived to 10 m and launched two wire-guided heavyweight torpedoes with 300 kg high explosive payloads.


*9 With a line of sight of 37 km and using a previous Heitman literary gem, one might as well take the entire ship's crew behind the electronics complex in the Simon's Town Naval Base and put them out of their misery with a bullet in the back of the head.




http://www.armsdeal-vpo.co.za/articles10/weak_ships.html

NAF-F7 jet will sink your over-priced poorly armed Valour Frigate as if it is a fishing boat..... .

CONFIRMED BY SOUTH AFRICAN MILITARY EXPERTS

.

patches689:
Who says they are stealth?

Only you do

Manufacturer confirms it, y.ou are too d.ull to do research.

jl115:
Uhm.....yes i did, but for you ill post it again.
www.northseaboats.com/x38_combat_i.htm#.VI9zltKUfIQ

GENERAL DESCRIPTION

The Combat Cat is a stepped-hull high-speed power catamaran design that offers sea-keeping, speed and safety in all operating conditions. It can be configured for military, law enforcement, diving and Search and Rescue (SAR) use, and is ideally suited for rapid response interception, amphibious deployment of commandos, counter-piracy, medical evacuations or regular patrol work.

For less cost and risk than other high value patrol or combat assets, it can provide striking power against critical targets, as well as protect inshore and off-shore resources and assets. It can also be equipped with enhanced features for special warfare operations.

A catamaran has distinct advantages over mono-hull craft, as the low draft allows them to operate in shallow water and river estuaries, and conduct beach landings. Its wide beam reduces rolling, and produces a stable level ride, that makes it easier to come alongside other vessels, and creates a superior arms platform with improved weapons accuracy.

The foredeck has a gun-well that provides 270 degree coverage for a GPMG, or a 40mm grenade launcher, and two large deck hatches ensure fast and direct access forward for amphibious assaults. The aft deck has space for 2 side mounted GPMG.

The cabin accommodates a Captain/Navigator, helmsman, engineer and gunner, and features forward facing windows, which increases the effective cabin space, and reduces glare and heat build-up in the cabin. Troops or passengers are accommodated in transport seats in the hulls.

The Combat Cat can be operated by a crew of 2 or 4, and is capable of carrying an additional 10 - 12 fully equipped troops. It can reach speeds of around 40 knots, using either twin inboard diesels or outboards. The inboard diesel model has large deck access hatches to the engines, and transom platforms for boarding and diving.

CONSTRUCTION

Built entirely from composite GRP with cored sandwich panels, utilising the vacuum resin infusion system. It incorporates vinylester resin and stitched multi-directional E glass and carbon fibre reinforcements and additional strengthening members. The closed-cell high density foam cores increase panel stiffness and reduce the weight usually associated with (solid) GRP boats. This offers great strength and robustness and maximises hull integrity in the event of a collision.

Composite vessels have proven to have lower operational, maintenance and life-cycle costs, and longer life spans than aluminium and steel vessels.

Another victim of poor research skills in Shout Afrikaa. Let Nigerians help you as usual :

The Nigerian catamarans have MINIMUM RADAR SIGNATURE, the barest minimum to avoid detection by enemy radar

http://pdf.nauticexpo.com/pdf/northseaboats/x-38-power-catamaran/25886-6675.html

South Africa can only dream and never buy a stealth catamaran like Nigeria, and we can put missiles on them if we want !
.

patches689:
And south africa might as well be on the moon for nigeria

This pretty much conclusivly proves who has the strongest military

What makes you strong? Sailing warships from home in delusional force projection voyage from which you will never return back hmoe alive to Simons town? That is suicide and not strength !

MikeCZAR:
It has no missiles. All of them are expired.

Who told you ? Do you know manufacturers specs for Otomat missile life cycle?

Venezuela is still using and firing her own old time Otomat missiles in her navy's show of power. People though that because President Chavez was not showing naval power his Otomat missiles had expired, he proved the ignorant people wrong in 2008 and the same Otomats are still in service today 2014.


"A Venezuelan navy patrol boat fires an Otomat surface-to-surface missile during a military exercise off the coast of La Orchila island near Carcas airport June 6, 2008. Venezuela test-fired missiles in the Caribbean Sea on Friday in a display of military strength at a time of tense relations between Washington and leftist President Hugo Chavez. REUTERS/Jorge Silva (VENEZUELA) "

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2027275/posts

Nigeria and Venezuela both received their last batch Otomat missiles in 1982.



Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by supplier. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 1980 to 1990
Note: The ‘No. delivered/produced’ and the ‘Year(s) of deliveries’ columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The ‘Comments’ column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL <http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/at_data.html>. The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 16 December 2014


Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments


Italy
R: Nigeria
(25) Aspide BVRAAM (1977) 1982 (25) For MEKO-360 (Aradu) frigate
(25) Otomat-1 Anti-ship missile 1977 1980-1981 (25) For FPB-57 Type (Ekpe) FAC
(15) Otomat-1 Anti-ship missile (1977) 1982 (15) For 1 MEKO-360 (Aradu) frigate
(10) Aspide BVRAAM 1982 1983 (10) For MEKO-360 Type (Aradu) frigate

Venezuela (100) Aspide BVRAAM (1975) 1980-1982 (100) For use with Albatros SAM system on Lupo (Sucre) frigates
(100) Otomat-2 Anti-ship missile (1975) 1980-1982 (100) For Lupo (Sucre) frigates



Venezuela still fired the same 1982 Otomat in year 2008 and are still inservice today 2014....same with Nigeria, we still have deadly Otomat and Aspide missiles in service on NNS Aradu, if threat comes we will speed up the refit of our ship and use it .


Only a navy that want's to die quick assumes that his enemy's anti-ship missiles have expired. Quality missiles last up to 45 years in service

.

The Nigerian photo shows two knee mortars. See the arrows.

Arrow 1 with no tripod stand, it leaned on the other arrow 2 with tripod stand and the stand is all set up as simply collapsible, does not need set up time.

Arrow 1 knee mortar has NO tripod stand, it sits on the small base plate.

Arrow 3 is the detachable and collapsible tripod stand.

The problem is that you don't know mortars get hot after sustained firing, then your SANDF cannot fire any more, Nigeria has the option of quickly connecting the collapsible tripod stand in a matter of seconds and keep firing even when mortar gets hot.

Our own version is an improvement over your old school type.

You need to upgrade, you are stuck with an old world war II knee mortar design
.

Main characteristic of Knee mortars is their approx 51mm calibre, it cuts down their size to knee level.

Design varies from country to country, below is a knee mortar designed to stand with collapsible tripod stand.

There is NO law that says a manufacturer must not innovate a simple light collapsible and easily detachable tripod stand that can fit into a thigh pouch.

Mortar gets hot after sustained fire, ow does the soldier keep holding it with a hand?

Below is a knee mortar or light mortar with a mini stand, small collapsible and removable stand
.

jl115:
You dont have stealth catamarans buddy, i posted a source from the manufacturer that dispute your claims.

No, you posted no source. The NN Catamarans are stealth guaranteed. South Africa has never seen such in your history
.

jl115:
Possible IPVs:
Pic 1: Paramount Group (42m Trimaran)
Pic 2: Veecraft (30m wave-piercer inshore patrol vessel)
Pic 3: Damen Shipyards (Stan Patrol 5009 50m)
Pic 4: SA Shipyards ( No related pic)

My Personal Favorite is the 42m Trimaran, the fact that it has a landing dock makes it much more versatile than its competition.

Nigerian navy has already ordered about 5 of those DAMEN OPV you posted above.

South Africa will end up with fishing trawlers, you can mount machine guns on them as your own OPV
.

jl115:
Possible OPVs for project Biro: All of the following Shipyards have shown interest in Project Biro, and all of the mention OPVs will be build locally.

Pic 1: Veecraft Marine + Navantia (Avante class 3000)
Pic 2: Damen Shipyards (Holland class OPV )
Pic 3: Southern African Shipyards + Germany’s Lurssen Werft (K 130 )
Pic 4: DCNS + KND (Gowind class )

What is Your Favorite?

Are you the one personally buying OPV for South Africa? Abeg show us official source....oh ! Wait....the OPV South Africa dreams to buy has NO NAME....because they will buy NOTHING.

Come to Lagos ask Naija navy to let you borrow 10 Stealth Combat Catamarans for free
.

ChukwuCantDie:
"The report released last week titled Mathematics Outcomes in South African Schools, cites among others, data collected in 2007, which shows that the majority of grade 6 teachers in South Africa cannot answer a question that their pupils ought to be able to answer based on the grade 6 curriculum."

"In one example, only 23% of South African grade 6 mathematics teachers could answer (such a grade 6 question) — with the proportion answering correctly ranging from 13% for quintile one teachers to 46% for quintile five teachers". Quintile 1 schools are the more disadvantaged schools and for the most part do not charge fees, while quintile 5 schools are regarded as more privileged and generally charge fees."


Sadness, I genuinely feel sorry for my true African brothers and sisters down there in South Africa and I hope your lives will improve.

@jln115 @ActivateKruger @MikeCZAR @mzilakazi @MduZA

It affects South African military too, AU and UN don't ever trust their army, Tanzanian army Brigadier was asked to command them in Congo war....too dull to lead is the trademark of Soweto nation
.

MikeCZAR:
The war was in 1982 and they weren't obsolete then.

Lack of information.

In 1982 a naval jet with no single guided weapon was obsolete then, SkyHawk was obsolete. The modern Argentine jet was the 1982 Super Etendard that sank warships and escaped at will
.

MikeCZAR:
They're not the same. The only similarity they have is the tube.

One has to be set up for firing, one does not.

You need new eye glasses? The Nigerian photo shows 2 knee mortars, one with no tripod stand, it leaned on the other one with tripod stand and the stand is all set up as simply collapsible, does not need set up time.

The other knee mortar has NO tripod stand, it sits on the small base plate.

The problem is that you don't know mortars get hot after sustained firing, then your SANDF cannot fire any more, Nigeria has the option of quickly connecting the collapsible tripod stand in a matter of seconds and keep firing even when mortar gets hot.

Our own version is an improvement over your old school type.

You need to upgrade, you are stuck with an old world war II knee mortar design
.

patches689:
Talk about us attacking you, because you know that we can strike at you and that you cannot strike at us. Hence, we have force projection and you do not

Your pussy cat has 'force projection' into the Lion's den, welcome into your graveyard
.

MikeCZAR:
Western nations aren't selling lethal weapons to Nigeria.

Your Otomat is expired. Try use it.

Show me proof that it expired, the Latin Americans are still firing their own....and expired missiles are usually removed, Nigeria didn't remove it, same with the Latino navy
.

MikeCZAR:
Yours is ineffective in an ambushes, which patrol soldiers might find them selves in.

Your weapons are always inferior.

You personally used our own weapons in your bedroom ?

You have Bofors artilley inside your house?
.

MikeCZAR:
It has no missiles. All of them are expired.

Prove it, Otomat missile of same time is still being fired around the world by some navies
.

patches689:
Which S-13 rockets?

Valour class will be watching your from 180km out, it will maneuver to have you facing the gun

NAF ATR-42 has been watching your Valour frigate from 330km away and NN coastal radar sees your frigate over 500km away. NA Satellite saw your Valour frigate leave naval base Simons Town from 5,000km away. Nigeria is the current reigning champion African James Bond world class Spy Master !
.

patches689:
This guy arguing over semantics

Knee mortar, commando mortar

Call it what you want

You dont have it

Pic related, Japanes Knee Mortar

Does it look like your light mortar? Does it have a separate bipod and base-plate?

Why should they look alike? They are designed by different manufacturers and the Japanese design is 1940s, Nigeria's design is year 2000s...a whole 60 years generational gap for improvements and redesigning.

Do Japanese air force planes of 1940 look like JF-17 Thunder of 2012 ? Answer me now Baba Suwe...
.

jln115:
Dude, have you ever heard of a synonym?

Your top ranking South African universities teach Biology/Anatomy classes and tell them that another word for Knee is Commando?

Top ranking African universities indeed...Soweto squalor infected educational system
.

patches689:
Knee mortar is another word for Commando mortar

Due to a translation error, the Type 10 was called the "knee mortar" by the Americans. The manual for the mortar instructed the troops to carry the mortar on the upper thigh, with the baseplate attached to the belt and the barrel running down the thigh. American troops on Guadalcanal became aware of the name "knee mortar" and thought the light design allowed it to be fired with the baseplate resting on the thigh. If the Type 10 were fired in this manner, it would result in serious injury due to recoil. However, once a few troops injured themselves, the mistranslation was discovered and further experimentation discouraged.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_10_grenade_discharger

Google is your friend augugubgugu, it will prevent you from making a fool of yourself.

Your own source does NOT even mention COMMANDO at all, instead of helping you get out of this Monday afternoon trap that you foolishly brought upon yourself as usual, your source proves me right by saying Knee mortar is light mortar.

You are trapped again as usual @Patches....Trapped by own argument
.

mzilakazi:
F7 is too weak to can even defeat BH, so how will it defeat valour standing clear from 15 km range.

I posted photo of NAF F-7 smoking gun here last month, NAF also confirmed to public that F-7 has been ravaging and damaging Boko Haram.

That warns you about NAF's hot smoking current form in air to surface combat skills and experience.

If NAF can use F-7 to blaast Boko Haram inside cities mixed with houses and innocent civilians, just imagine how easy it is for NAF to target a huge warship sitting alone like a doomed duck on a wide and clear open ocean where your ship is the only object floating there like stark n..a..k..e..d !

NAF is gonna have fun sinking your unlucky Valour frigates
.

patches689:
Valour Class can detect your F-7 180km away

It will position itself so that the guns are facing the target

And do you think there will just be one? Multiple Valour class in overlapping feilds of fire

Carpet bombing is not a viable solution - hence why the Argentinians did not do it in the Falklands

And what are these magical 6km rockets you speak of yet are unable to post?

Valour frigate detecting F-7 jet at 180km is a waste of range, NO SINGLE weapon gun or missile in your over-priced frigate can fire above 8km altitude. At 180km your navy just keeps looking at radar screen like I watch my CNN on Tv...your navy can fvcking do nothing to my F-7 shocker of a jet !

Simple S-13 rocket pods have range 6km, F-7 can sink your frigate from behind where CIWS range is only 4km anti-air.

F-7 can also fly amidships above deck at 90 degrees because your CIWS gun is useless at that perpendicular since it's maximum elevation is limited to 85 degrees. My F-7 jet has a free ride over your guns, ALL your freaking impotent guns