₦airaland Forum

All those claims are mere stories to me. U can't proove them to be more credible than my claims/examples too.

Haba! In fact, this is quite frustrating! How would you want me to prove these again? I told you to bring these people (at least, those that are still alive) to join the forum. Mere stories? Chris Okotie is out there for everyone to see! Didn't Benny Hinn quarel over money, with other pastors, recently during his so-called "crusade" in Nigeria? Oh, Lord!

If we are to talk about the ills of so many islamic fundamentalists from the Al-qaeda network to the so-called islamic spirtualists on the pages of Nigerian newspapers, we'll probably run out of pages on this thread.

Al Qaeda? Islamic fundamentalists? Islamic spiritualists? Man, I don't even know what to call you because... Ooof! I dared you to give me names of a single Islamic preacher that swindles people of their hard-earned monies nationally or internationally, and all you could say was "Al Qaeda"? Please, Layi, that's it!

Layi! Layi! Layi! How many times have I called you? A beg, make you no start wahala ooooo!

Obasanjo, Atiku, Ken Nnnamani, Aminu Mesari and the newly installed Bayelsa State Speaker) will all perish the way Abacha perished...

...including UMARU DIKKO (for stealing billions, escaping being caged, and living comfortably in Nigeria with impunity), IBRAHIM BADAMOSI BABANGIDA (for ruining Nigeria's economy, derailing democracy, and canceling the fairest elections in the history of our nation; also, for denying Moshood Abiola his rightful mandate), DIYA (for not listening to the Yoruba people telling him to leave Abacha's government), UBBA AHMED (for being a roguish Hausa/Fulani boy), SHONEKAN (for not leaving the stage when the ovation was the loudest, or should I say softest?), SHEU SHAGARI (for being a mediocre), ALEX EKWUEME (for being Sheu Shagari's partner-in-crime), SUNDAY ADEWUSI (for misusing his offices as the Inspector General of Police during the Shagari regime to kill many innocent Nigerians), AUGUSTUS AIKHOMU (for being Babangida's partner-in-crime), LATEEF JAKANDE (for supporting Abacha when he should have sided with the hungry masses!), RICHARD AKINJIDE (for cooking up the fruadulent formula, 2/3 of 19 and, for arguing irrationally to the point of rubbishing the innocent efforts of the late Dr. Ayodele Awojobi in court), ADISA AKINLOYE (for trying to celebrate his stolen billions on the eve of Buhari/Idiagbon's coup, and for having his name printed on bottles of expensive champagne for the celebration), and AL MUSTAPHA (for killing so many innocent Nigerians like Kudirat Abiola) Amin (Amen)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, my God! When are these people going to ever wake up? Benny Hinn and other evangelicals like him are known in the States as "thieves and dupers." Nigerians, turn to your Creator for salvation on your own. You possess the natural power in you! He created you, and will deliver you if you ask Him with a clear mind. Stop deceiving yourselves by making money for these "unholly" preachers!

Flocks are the ones being preached to. If they do what the pastors preach to them and they obey and follow God's instructions diligently, God will definitely bless them and make them rich.

I have said it many times, you people are so clever that you blame the gullible followers of your religion (who dare to complain about the absence of "holy ghost" in their lives) for having no faith.

Talking of muslims, I was reading through the middle page of a newspaper last week. All adverts in there were just based on spiritualism, all sorts of sorcerey and demonic stuffs. They even put up their addresses so u can contact them incase u need help from them. And guess what? Every single advertiser there had titles of "ALHAJI". 

First, there are no people on the face of this earth who wear spirituality in their sleeves than the Christians. OK? You are talking about sorcery and "demonic stuffs" -- what's your point? That Muslims are sorcerers? That Muslims are demonic? I don't get it.

We were talking about pastors deceiving Nigerians and I dared you to mention only one Islamic preacher, nationally or internationally, who has done the same -- all you could come up with is some "Alhaji" on TV! What! See how moronic that even sounds! Pastors are preachers, but not all Alhajis are preachers. Yours truly is an Alhaji, but I'm neither a cleric nor preacher. Being Alhaji only means that one has performed a holy pilgrimage. "Al" = the, while "haj" = pilgrimage. Therefore, an "alhaji" is rightly translated as "the pilgrim" -- one who has made the pilgrimage. It does not mean what uninformed Nigerians call "alejo" in Yoruba or "the visitor" in English. Having said that, lest we lose sight of the fact that if someone pays his/her money on a pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina, he/she is not automatically qualified to be cleric. In order to become an Islamic cleric/preacher, one has to undergo an academic tutelage under the auspices of a qualified sheik in an Islamic institution. These your imaginary "alhajis" in the newspaper adverts could be either babalawos or oniseguns. In one of my debates here, I reminded folks that babalawos and oniseguns are our own doctors and pharmacists in Yorubaland. These individuals are not limited to one particular faith -- they can be Muslim or Christian or animist. These your men in the said adverts only happened to be Muslims, and alhajis, for that matter. So, please, get that right.


You are obviously not good in a debate. i accepted your T.O Obadere's claims even though I copuld have easily waived it off as a lie. U aint got any evidence.
I made my own claim now and you're telling me not to 'fabricate' lies. Thats an insult. Like I said your points are very myopic.

I don't tell lies and I don't say what I can't back up. Pastor Obadare is still alive. Call him to join the forum; I'll tell him the place, date, and time! I was not a child when Reverend T.O. Iyanda used to spray the "I found it -- Mo ti rii" pamphlets from a helicopter, disturbing the peace and quiet of Ibadan residents and claiming that he could cure them of all ailments. I personally knew one Olumide boy -- a born Christian who had been lame since birth (his mother used to sell amala at Ayedade, Elekuro opposite Medina bus stop in Ibadan). He went up the rostrum at the end of the month-long "crusade" to complain that he was still the same as he was before the begining of the "deliverance." T. O. Iyanda's guys told him and others to leave the stage. When confronted by the newshounds, T. O. Iyanda said that those people were not real Christians and, so, it would be difficult for the "holy ghost" to descend upon them. Olumide cried  and cried, saying he was a real Christian. Call Abiara of Agbala Itura (why would I lie?) and ask him to join the forum; I'll remind him of the "Gbajue/4-1-9" guys that came to him for prayers, but ended up swindling him of a huge sum of money -- at the time when naira was heavier than American dollar. Who doesn't remember the late Idahosa whose preaching was focused on nothing but riches. Correct me if I lie! We all remember how he went around (both at home and abroad) in limos, sporting expensive wears and jeweleries. Didn't he frequently claim that his own God was not a poor God? There was a time Idahosa occupied the entire Olubadan Stadium for two months or so; to everybody's chagrin, after announcing that the amount of salvation would be equal to how much money the "gullibles" could donate, he categorically refused to take nothing less than #5 (five naira) from each "gullible" at the "crusade." NOTE TO YOUNGER READERS: five naira then was a lot of money. In circa 1995, just few years before his death in 1998, Benson Idahosa boasted in the presence of a lot of people, to have had about 950 (nine hundred and fifty) pieces of expensive suits. A friend of mine told me the story. I believed him because he was the one that picked Idahosa up from the Dulles Airport, Virginia-Washington, DC, and he was present when Idahosa made those claims. We know everything about Chris Okotie who, after failing musically (Chris Okotie used to sing and produce music with his jerry curls in those days; I think he released one record or more professionally), professed to have been touched  by the "holy ghost." He later founded his own "new breed" church/ministry. You all know how rich he is today. I think some of you are even suggesting that he should run for president.   Internationally, we even know of shady individuals like Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Bohnke and a host of other evangelicals, but I'll leave them alone for now insofar as this topic only questions if pastors deceive Nigerians. If you like we can start a new thread about this anomaly, so widely prevalent that it's international!   

[b]I really don't know why our muslim brother here is taking things too personal.

This is not true, I'm only keeping it real. That's all.

Afterall, you muslims are also being deceived through some preachings.

Give me a cogent and more rational example.

I was actually listening to a preaching by an imam/alfa on TV. The man kept trying to convince (confuse is more like it) people that Jesus is not the Son of God and all stuffs like that. I was just laughing where I was because I know such people arent worth arguing with.

You were laughing because he said Jesus wasn't the Son of God? Why? The preacher was right. Par excellence!

You're right, my brother.

Rightly so, my European brother!

Look, Goodguy, whatever you say. I think some readers can deduce intelligently from both of our writings. OK?

Infact, the difference is clear! Any right thinking individual can distinguish between you and I. Look, Seun doesn't like childish exchanges like these -- if you have nothing more cerebral to say to convince me that your pastors aren't deceiving Nigerians, man, I've got better things to do than arguing with you unnecessarily. Bye!

Money and food are not related? What are you talking about? Both guys based their belief in what God could do for them right there and then! If your godly friend was a true "born-again" he wouldn't test God in any way. Didn't they teach us in primary school how Jesus was tested by Satan, asking Jesus to go ahead and jump off the cliff if he were who he claimed he was? Had Jesus done it then, I'm sure you people would not be talking about his death on the cross, right?

Another Christian defeatist! Man, I didn't say you were never a "Muslim." Did you understand my English? I said "apostates like you." If you don't know any national or international Islamic preacher, too bad. I refuse to help you out -- do your research like I did on you guys. Yes, Muslims are purer than you ordinary noise-making gospelers! And I stand to be corrected. Again, you called the alfas, mallams, and ladans illiterate. How many times have I corrected you "myopic" people that just because a group of people chose to read and write only in Arabic didn't mean that they were illiterate? Reading and writing in any language makes you a lettered person. I'm sick and tired of the deceived ones!

Asimiyu was a fellow student in my grammar school years. He was from a poor home, economically, and everybody knew about his condition. Also, he was not a bright student, as I was the one tutoring him math, chemistry, and physics in those days. Anyway, came back to school one day, proclaiming his belief in Jesus and all that. Why? He said: "I got home yesterday after school and was so hungry that I cried. There was nothing in my house to eat, so I proceeded to my brother's nearby house. But before I got there, I did a test of my faith, saying 'if Muhammad is truly God may I meet neither my brother nor his wife at home, but if Jesus is truly God may I meet just one of them.' When I got to the house, not only did I meet my brother's wife who fed me properly, but she even gave me a lot of money. This is my reason for choosing Christianity." Talk about being dumbfounded -- we were really flabbergasted! How could a human being be so daft like Asimiyu? It was obvious right there that Asimiyu didn't even know anything about his former religion, Islam because Muhammad is not God. I thought the bible says that man should not live by bread alone, or whatever? Man, this your example is material and so ethereal in nature! Find another reason or a more logical way of saying it. I believe in God and His existence, but people like you make those atheists sick. And you'll never win a single convert or even revert by this way of childish reasoning!

What about in Paul? Wasn't Saul/Paul the originator of Christianity? Tell us what we don't know.

I can start mentioning those i've met. I was born into a muclim home

That's what apostates like you claim. I've heard this so many times!


and i've met lots of fake alfas,malims,ladans etc. Half baked illiterates who turn the islamic religion into a full time job (make their living from it). U hear them use vulgar, curse words in their preaching.

Mention just one popular name just like I did! I even witnessed T.O. Iyanda's antics at Wesley college, Ibadan; what about Abiara of Agbala Itura who, out of his greed to make money, was duped by the "gbajue" the guys who pionered "4-1-9"? Look, we know all about your religion and your so-called "holy men." Don't come here with your "born-again" illusion and deceive us! By the way, my beloved uncle is a Christian, and I love him so dearly. He and I don't talk about religion because he knows.   

NOTE: Mention a popular name, and don't come up with one fake name that we've never heard of.

The majority of them (flocks) are poor! I remember, in Sanngo, Ibadan, in those days when Obadare would lock the whole place down for months, saying that he was doing "deliverance." We would go there to watch them -- believe me, my brother, the sight was always unpalatable (destitutes all over; pungent odours -- argh!). On top of this, the Ibadan residents suffered the economic hardship, as every 10kobo coin in Ibadan had found its way inside hundreds of "gorodomu" empty petroleum barrels that Obadare's henchmen had placed in strategic locations in the area. The market women and danfo drivers gave the residents unspeakable hell, as they were ready to blame everything on Pastor Obadare's "gorodomu" empty petroleum barrels. This man did these for years, claiming that he could wake the dead, straighten the lame, and even restore the blind's eyesights. Hmmmm! I think he himself is still blind till date? Charity begins at home! How many lame and blind still roam the streets of Ibadan today after decades of "crusades"? So, tell me, have you ever seen a Muslim preacher in such an unholy situation before? Tell the truth!

They were killing each other before the eoropeans came.

But, we would have faired better if we had been left alone in our "un-civilized" way of life!

It is funny when we blame europeans 4 our misfortunes.

Your Christian brother just did by calling them "ungodly."

We fought for our independence and having gotten it since 1960, who do we blame for where we are today? Our military leaders? Mind you ...they are not Europeans

My answer is: Religious hypocrites whose only concerns are why should Nigeria join OIC, but never thought about the benefits of OIC economically.

Goodguy, why are they all rich and you're poor (I don't mean you in particular) -- I mean their flocks?

@ Exu,
Our Christian counterparts are known for petty jealousy like a new wife . Don't worry about that.

Anyway if that migration took place, it would be far earlier than the establishment of Islam.

Yes, indeed! The migration really took place and; of course, it was before the advent of Islam.

All I said was that YOUR write up was made of conjectures and half truths. In other words, I was talking about what you wrote and not what AbduRahman wrote.

Actually, it was AbduRahman's write up, and I only answered a questioner that asked why the Muslims on the forum are "genderless."

Before you call my beliefs an illusion, did you make an attempt to consider the writtings of your own prophet about my believe?

The Holy Prophet Muhammad was an un-lettered individual, so there were no "writings" of his; however, I am aware of his teachings concerning your religion.

According to the text you quoted, five members of the family would be divided amongst themselves, three against two and two against three, have you noticed the goings on in Iraq lately? Where sunni and Shiite Moslem's are slaughtering themselves like Christmas goat? How will you interprete that?

Again, it wasn't my quote. And, so what if Sunni and Shiite Muslims killed one another? Christian sects had "slaughter[ed] themselves like Christmas goat[s]" in the past. What's your point?

would it not be fair to say that both you and AbduRahman believe the writings of the bible? And if this is so, would it not be safe to assume that Abdurahman believed in the existence of Jesus? If this further assumption is correct and the bible makes it clear that Jesus is the Son of God, and you are implying that I am putting words in AbuRahman's mouth, are you then saying that AbduRahman accepts only portions of the bible that suit his fancy?

AbduRahman and I only believe in what the holy Qur'an says about Jesus, as being one of the mightiest prophets of Allah. No Muslim is a true believer if he/she doesn't believe in the existence/immaculate conception of Prophet Jesus through that chaste woman, Mariam. Our belief reinforces it that the venerable Prophet Jesus was sent to his people (the children of Isreal) in order to prepare them for the coming of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

You're welcome, sir.

I guess we'll talk more on it later. I'm stepping out right now, so take care, all.

@ Goodguy, go ahead, bring your biblical quotations. @ Nferyn, you can also bring your own reasons why it is not logical to prove the existence of God. C'mon, bring it on!

Maybe the fact that the Yoruba people migrated from the Arabia has something to do with -- I can't say. But that's not the point now.

The point is, yes, there's a similarity. Can't you discern? If Yoruba believe that their loved one who has just died and is being buried is probably now in the backyard scavenging in form of an animal/ the Qur'an pointing to the fact that Allah would raise certain people as Reprobates in the Day of Reckoning, I don't think there is any dissimilarity, at all.

No! That's the Yusuf Ali's translation of a Qur'anic ayat.

Concerning the pronoun "WE" in the Qur'an, it's only a manifestation of the Majesty of Allah; there's still only one God -- the All-knowing, the Eternal!

A religion that is rooted in the cycles of nature and life (such as many traditional African religions) is much more meaningful than detached stories of all powerful jealous deities that demand utter submission

I guess my argument makes no sense to you, huh?

Haven't you heard about various African tribes that believe their great leaders have come back in form of Lions, snakes, etc?

It's not far-fetched! Even our own tribe, Yoruba, believes in this theory. Have you ever heard the Yoruba eulogize at a dead person's funeral? It's called "aro" or "idaro." It goes like these:

ARO/IDARO

Lagbaja omo Lamorin, o d'igba kanna o
O ma see o
O wa di ewure jele-jele
O di agutan jemo-jemo
O di alangba/alamu ti n je leba ogiri
K'a to r'erin o digbo
K'a to r'efon o d'odan
K'a to r'eni ti o se bi baba/iya Lakasegbe
O d'orun alakeji
O d'igba t'a ba pade l'ese o gbeji.

Meaning in English:[please, I have not claimed to be an expert in English ooooo! I'm no Wole Soyinka, so don't tear me apart ooo. This is only an humble effort oooo!]

EULOGY:

Adieu! Somebody, the son/daughter of whomever
Alas!
You've now become a wandering goat
You've become a herbivorous lamb
You're now a lizard that scavenges round the adobe wall
Off to the wilderness if we care to find the elephant
Off to the prairie if we care to find the bison
Only in the Great Beyond shall we find a substitute for the father/mother of whomsoever
So long, untill we meet by the Narrow Path.


Also, according to the Islamic religion, the Qur'an teaches us that, on the Day of Ressurection, Allah will raise some people as Reprobates, which means that they've been condemned to Damnation. Certain Islamic schools of thoughts opine that these Reprobates would come as animals, insects, stones and etc. That's what the Yoruba people mean when they throw a curse at you in Yoruba: "Olorun o halaka re lai," meaning, God will turn you into a reprobate!

I couldn't have said it better. Salaam.

In addition, the bible may have been placed in a different part of the house than other books

He said it was stored inside a wardrobe; we all know there are fire-proof safes and wardrobes, right?

Yeah, I've heard that before. The truth is always bitter!

@ Ijebuman, "a dara fun e," my brother. That's exactly my point!