₦airaland Forum

Deicide:
Lemme add

only those theists that are angy with their god, and deal with their anger by calling themselves atheist eventually return to their theism when their anger dissapates, or advancing age forces them to face their mortality and they set their anger aside; core atheist who come to their non belief through seeking evidenceand finding none... will continue to not find evidence and hence not change their position.

Yeah....
Also, because our society is largely that which don't acquire information for the primary reason of self empowerment, most of the folks romancing atheism now, are grossly uninformed in the concept of human belief system.

If anyone understands how the human brain functions (the mind), it will be easier to situate religious beliefs for what it really is.

Deicide:
Atheism Is Rising in Nigeria but I have notice that most of this New atheist are Atheist because of one emotional break down or the other....esp loosing of love once.what do you think about this?

Yes your observation is very correct. I refer to these folks as those disillusioned with religion. The atheists in Nigeria falls under the following groups in my opinion:

1. Those who were skeptics even when they sincerely believed in God. But through lots of reading outside religious materials, they arrived at a conscious, rational and bold decision to become atheist.

2. Those who don't possess the emotional stamina to stand the unending unanswered prayers. Disappointment with hypocritical behavior of fellow believers. Generally disillusioned folks.

* I personally don't consider these folks as atheists. They are more like bittered and angry folks, who felt that their innocence, trust and expectations have been dashed.

3. There's this theory being spread by some apologists, that atheism is a movement by the westerners. Some folks who believe this lie, and hoping it's an opportunistic means, also claim to be an atheist.

Unfortunately, when the religious folks die, they can't find out anything again. It has all ended in the grave.

Death ends everything.

One exciting thing happening to most apologists on NL, who are like kids genetically modified to never to grow up where it matters most, is the effective way the atheistic writings is casting doubts on what they have believed to be true.

To become an atheist takes a lot of mental labour. Lots of reading across different bodies of knowledge, listening to debates dispassionately, and being brave hearted.

It will take the apologists a lot, to come to terms with what it takes to be an atheist.

Just wondering how you came about the 12 illusionary dots.

ireneony:
do you think I'm a religious fanatic? I only believe there is God.
Religious folks and non religious folks should always abide by the rules of this forum.
because i know if i should insult anyone the way she did to me, seun will be the first to ban me.
I never insulted anyone on this thread or are trying to tell me atheists don't have manners.

Please forgive my presumptuous conclusion. Ain't you a "born again" Christian?

Again, is it only religious fanatics that obey the "be like Christ" in thoughts, words and deeds creed?

Merry Xmas OP!

From Robert Mugabe

https://www.nairaland.com/3523766/revealing-very-atheist-christmas-plans

Just like every other holiday in the world, you can choose to poke the skull of the birthday boy. Or revel all you like.

God: they have prayed and fasted, they afflicted their flesh, they neither rested nor sleep at night. They asked that i do something before my name and claims are consigned to oblivion, in the minds of many.

I have heard their cries and I have decided to act. As i am talking to you now, am also talking to other persecutors of my name.

Me: but wait oo god. How did you manage to put all these craps together in the first place? All this talk of some folks praying to you, and you doing something about it, is as unreal as the first presumption you made here.

Do you realize that it's perplexed and primitive folks that made you and your craps up? Do you realize that you have the most horrific, amorphous, and ridiculous character in any known fictional works?

To be continued.......

God: i know that which thou thinketh now. You're wondering if this is real or just imagination. It's real. Before you is the god you have persecuted consistently in your words and writings.

You have particularly made the preachings of my children ineffectual, by perforating their messages before it captures the minds of men.

Me: well, you're wrong god. Am not surprised at what is happening here. It's called subliminal experience.

God: what's subliminal experience?

Me: didn't you say that you're a god of all knowledge, yet you knoweth not what meaneth subliminal experience?

God: now it's between the two of us, you don't have to point out how ungrammatical i am to me, in a deriding manner of your NL posts.

Me: ok i spare you on this. But am kind of surprised at your admission of limitations. Well what am trying to say is that, what am going through now is a replay of so much bible stories i had read, when i was emotionally fascinated by the stories.

They were buried in my subconsciousness, something must have stir them up to my consciousness now. Do you get that now?

God: yes. That was kind of you to have explained. OK, if you say i and what is happening now is unreal, how about this:

most of my apologists on NL have been calling on me, to visit the atheists who have all invaded every means of communication, to persecute me.

To be continued......

[

[

Emescot:
Complete your story ooo

It's not story, it's a spectacular encounter....... Am on it, stand still.

In what appeared to be an answer to the prayers of some nice apologists on NL, who have been praying that god should visit the atheists who have been persecuting god, bursting the bubbles of god and making the preachings of the gospel ineffectual.

They specifically asked god to do the visiting in an action packed style, that he used in Paul's case.

At about about 12pm, on the day that the nazarene was fabricated to have been born, in the month that all gods possessed Santa and in the year that atheism spread mightily.

As i lay in quietness and in ambience of my abode, suddenly there was a thundering and lightning, and in a blinking of an eye, the whole room was darkened in the brightness of all lights that i have ever seen.

While i was trying to figure out this, the thundering sounds gradually tuned down to a deafening silence. The intensity of the bright light increased, until all i could see is nothing.

Then suddenly, i saw a creature, who began to shape out from the blinding light. The shape and color of this creature was beyond what can be described in human language.

As i observed this creature closely, i heard a voice that seems to be coming from the creature. I became more curious when the creature spoke in my mother tongue. Saying:

" i am god of all tongues and knowledge"

I was surprised, since the god i once heard of, never introduced himself like that. Then the following gists happened:

To be continued.........

PDBonline:
Concerning issues that are obviously out of your control at the moment r]

What possible issues can be out of control of human minds?

PDBonline:
or for wisdom to use the best approach for what is within your control, you still need to pray. r]

Wisdom is applying the appropriate knowledge, to prosecute the desired outcome.

If you know what to do, and how to do it, why don't just go ahead and get it done?

Why talking to the air about what is known?

PDBonline:
But not an irresponsible prayer expecting God to do everything. [/colour]

Prayer is the most absurdly irresponsible behavior by the religious folks.

PDBonline:
It's okay. But don't superimpose your experience on others. If you've not experienced God's intervention or don't acknowledge them as such, you may say so but don't generalize. Others have.

It's not my experience, but what is real, practically evidential and reproducible. Nothing is personal here.

Whatever is said to be intervention experience in religious sphere, is completely private and personal. It bears no value for the world.

If you say i should not "superimpose" behavior that is informed by reason on folks, am now wondering what other alternatives there are.

PDBonline:
There is a difference between intervention and fellowship.
.

The fellowship part is not of interest to me, as long as it's kept personal and private.

But this interventionist concept of god idea, which is the focus of your thread, has no shred of trace in human experience.

Intervention is a precursor of fellowship. Since god never intervened, except in the unfounded assumptions of Bible, the fellowship part is unknown.

PDBonline:
What I am saying is that God is real and he loves you and me, but God will not do for man what He has equipped us to do. He intervenes when He knows we truly need help .[/b][/color]

It thus means i can do without consulting god, until such a time that god becomes a relevant factor.

This also means that in the event that i never ever need god help, i can eternally consigned god to oblivion.

Now the god idea concept, is inching close to reason.

*

Richirich713:
That's not my point at all, u making the claim, so u have the burden of proof.

You see, when i post a thread, i do so with a drift. My thread has nothing to do with proving anything.

The legends in the meme existed mythically in the ancient culture and religions that claimed they did.

If you have issues with that, you can go ask Google.

Just as the Bible documented it's mythical characters and events, so these other religions did.

I simply said that the jesus is a fraudulent fabrications from these other mythological stories.

The fraud allegation is premised on the fact that most of these mythological stories predated jesus appearance, and bear striking similarities

Richirich713:
U have said that the claims of Jesus being a virgin, crucified and resurrected were based on Horus, Mithra, Osiris etc.

Because all these claims hold sway in the realm of myths and superstitions, that found semblance with other immortals, who predated jesus, the allegation of fraudulent fabrication of jesus myth is premised.

Richirich713:
What source were u using that made this claims about Jesus, writings contained in the New Testament, right? That's the primary sources that claim this. So that's the sources u using in the first part of ur argument.

I have answered this earlier. Stop wasting energy. Better apply it to answering the questions i put to you, on that your Bible.

Richirich713:
The next thing to do is provide the sources that make the same claims about those other guys to back up ur argument (or memes) that those claims about Jesus were based on them, u haven't done this thus far.

If you can't guide yourself on Google, how is that my concern here.

Richirich713:
The reason is obviously, such sources about Horus, Mithra, Osiris etc don't exist. If they did, u would have cited them already.

The usual lazy and irritating assumption, of typical apologist there.

Stop recycling lies and be serious for once.

I guess i fabricated the legends/immortals then. And i wrote the volumes of stuff about them on Google.

Though a copy and paste nonsense here, the beautiful thing happening here on NL to apologists, is that they are unknowingly being mentally conditioned, from religious nonsense to rational thought pattern.

The preaching about the nazarene is stale in their minds now, as it's being frozen by pervading atheistic threads.

Richirich713:
We have the New Testament writings, that's the ancient sources that claim Jesus was crucified and resurrected, was born of a virgin etc.

You made the claim that those sources fabricated the story of Jesus based on Horus, Mithra, etc. Now the question is what ancient sources do u have that actually claim that mithra or Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, had 12 disciples etc. Where are u getting these ideas from? Is there any scholars who claim this?

Now get this point clearly.
I presumed you will say that bible is your source. The reason i asked you.

May i ask you -

*Who wrote the Bible?

*how old is the bible?

*were there literary cultures contemporary to authors of the Bible?

*can you authenticate the accounts and claims of the Bible?

*are there not myths and legends (written and oral) of other religions (older than Judeo-Christian religion), that bears perfect resemblances to the characters and events in the bible?

*can you claim that all the characters and events in the bible are literarily true?

*do you care to know why there are various versions and continued till today editing of the Bible?

*are you aware that there are thousands of other books of Judeo-Christian prophets and disciples, that are not included in the 66 books you carry upandan now?

*why are these others books not included?

Judeo-Christian religion is like every other traditional religions of other cultures world over. You can believe whatever you want.

Religious mentality blurs and clouds critical reasoning, intelligence and honesty.

Richirich713:
u made tons of claims above in ur pics, back up those claims with sources.

What authentic source, do you have for the claims by which Jesus was fabricated?

Richirich713:
No sources given, just assertions we as usual.

The very acts of fraud, succeeds when verbatim copying is deceptively avoided.

There are so many myths (in most ancient religions) that presented immortals that bears features of that which Jesus was sold on.

Eschatology is a denial and rationalization mechanism, to defend the serial failure of god, at creating a world system that will be under its total control.

*in heaven Satan poked its nose
*in eden, Satan possessed its creation
*now, Satan is tormenting its children
*in future, god will arrest Satan.... Eschatology(illusions).

There are as many variant and deviant teachings on eschatology, as there are the Pentecostals mushrooms tents, around the world.

You guys are extremely pessimistic in confronting life challenges. If not, you wouldn't be finding sense in pessimistic apocalypse.

Religion na politics.... It breeds nepotism and favoritism.

The acts of the first set of sheepmaniacs, documented that James, the blood brother of Jesus, was appointed the Supreme head of church council.

James was not one of the 12 sheepmaniacs, he came to be part of the movement after the demise of Jesus.

Peter, who was the 2IC of Jesus, and that Jesus declared as the foundation of the organized movement, was sidelined and relegated to the background. In fact Paul took Peter to cleaners once.

While the Catholic recognized Peter according to the fable, the protestants recognized James (just to create a departure from Catholic position).

Christian religion is amusingly spurious.

Cont'd

It was probable that Rabbi Jesus' earlier initiation into both the Essene and Druid schools played a major part in his acceptance into the Egyptian school. The Druids could claim a very early origin and the essence of their wisdom was also that of the Essenes.

In the case of the Essenes, it is possible to show that their movement was specifically established to preserve secret information, for they knew and used the sacred writing of the Initiates. The full meaning of the point being made by Bushby is that in the case of all Secret Schools, the inner and ultimate Mystery was revealed only to a High Initiate.

Those who were initiated into the Ancient mysteries took a solemn oath never to reveal what had passed within the sacred walls. Every year only a comparatively few Egyptian initiations were conducted, and the number of persons who knew their secrets was never at any time large.

The initiations always took place with the onset of darkness and the candidate was entranced for periods of varying length, depending upon the level of the degree for which he had entered.

The first initiatory step involved a forty-day procedure that basically involved purification, not only in physical form, but dissolving all tendencies to evil thoughts, purifying the mind as well. It appears that he would have fasted, alternatively on vegetables, juices and very special herbal concoctions.

The New Testament recorded that this happened to Rabbi Jesus who "was led into the desert.... and he fasted forty days and forty nights" (Matt. 4:1-2).

This trial period involved more than just fasting. During the forty days and nights' ordeal, Tony says the candidate was required to study astronomical charts to supplement his skills in astronomy and memorize charts of the heavens. They were also given a particular ritual from which to memorize certain passwords, secret signs and handclasps, skills that are still practiced to this day in Freemasonry.

These initiations were not limited to Egypt. The ancient civilizations inherited these Mysteries from a remote antiquity and they constituted part of a primitive revelation from the gods to the human race. Almost every people of pre-Christian times possessed its institution and tradition of the mysteries.

The Romans, the Druids of Britain, the Greeks, the Cretans, the Syrians, the Hindus, the Persians, the Maya and the American Indians, among others, had corresponding temples and rites with a system of graduated illuminations for the initiates.
The modern world knows little of these ancient rites yet they were conducted in a huge variety of buildings the world over.

The 'Towers' that are found throughout the East in Asia were directly connected with the Mystery-initiations. The candidates for initiation were placed in them for three days and three nights, whenever there was no temple with a subterranean crypt close at hand.

In this aspect of the initiatory procedure, Tony points out a direct Gospel parallel with Rabbi Jesus saying, "After three days I shall rise again", for he knew the finishing process he was to undertake would take three days being a symbol of the period of time required to complete a condition of development.

The ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic texts speak of an initiate as 'twice-born', and he was permitted to add to his name the words 'he who has renewed his life', so that on some ancient tomb-inscriptions archaeologists still discover these phases descriptive of the spiritual status of the deceased person.

So little did the later Gospel writers understand the initiatory process that they never perceived they were developing a story that included a Rabbi's (and Arch Druid of Britain) experience in an Egyptian Mystery School.

St Austin (c. 380) asserted that it was generally known in church circles that Rabbi Jesus had been initiated in Egypt, and that "he wrote books concerning magic".

In the Gospel of Nicodemus, the Jews brought the same accusation before Pontius Pilate, "Did we not tell you he was a magician?" Celsus (c. 178) spoke of the same charge. In the Clementine Recognitions, the accusation was brought against Rabbi Jesus that he did not perform any miracles but practiced magic and carried about with him the figure of a seated skeleton.

Jewish tradition invariably asserted that Rabbi Jesus learned 'magic' in Egypt. Bushby says the kernel of this persistent accusation may perhaps be reduced to the simple historical element that Rabbi Jesus went to Egypt and returned with far wider and more enlightened views than those of his former religious associates.

Now, I'm sure that many of you are having trouble grasping some of the ideas presented in this article and I congratulate you on taking the effort to read this far. We all need to demand our local Church, the Church scholars, theologians and media make an open examination of the evidence compiled in Tony Bushby's The Bible Fraud.

It may rattle some core beliefs but what is more important to you . the truth or what sits comfortably because it's what you've known all you life?
I leave you with a quote from one of the conspirators

"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)

Article first published in New Dawn Magazine No 71, March 2002

Concluded.

Cont'd

The Emperor then instructed Bishop Eusebius to compile a uniform collection of new writings "bound together as one" using the stories from the large collection of Presbyters as his reference source.

Eusebius was to arrange for the production of "fifty sumptuous copies ... to be written on parchment in a legible manner, and in a convenient portable form, by professional scribes thoroughly accomplished in the art". This was the first mention of finished copies of a Christian 'New Testament' in the history of mankind.

As one can imagine, to condense the real life of the Jesus Christ, the Church and His teachings with supporting evidence into a short article is very difficult. It is therefore wise for those who wish to have supportable evidence to read and study Tony Bushby's epic work, The Bible Fraud, along with it's detailed blood lines (family trees) and over 869 references. (see www.thebiblefraud.com)

However, attempting to summarize what Tony has written..... in 325 AD, the first Christian council was called at Nicaea to bring the stories of twin brothers, Jesus 'the Rabbi' and Judas Khrestus into one deity that we now know as Jesus Christ.

Tony says they were not born of virgin birth but to Nabatean Arab Mariamne Herod (now known as the Virgin Mary) and fathered by Tiberius ben Panthera, a Roman Centurion. The brothers were raised in the Essene community and became Khrists of their faith.

Rabbi Jesus later was initiated in Egypt at the highest of levels similar to the 33rd degree of Freemasonry of which many Prime ministers and Presidents around the world today are members. He then later married three wives, one of whom we know as a Mary Magdalene, a Druidic Princess, stole the Torah from the temple and moved to Lud, now London.

Tony believes the reason Jesus stole the Torah was that he said it contained "a very special secret", which he was going to reveal that secret to the world. He was stoned to death and the Torah taken from him before he could.

The elder brother, Judas Khrestus, with his "Khrestian" followers conspired to take the throne of Rome, his royal birthright, and was captured, tried, and was sentenced to be crucified. (The "Khrestians" and the Essenic army, the Nazarenes, would today be likened to terrorists.) At the trial, Judas exercised his royal birthright to have a replacement in Simon of Cyrene (Luke 23:41) and then was sold as a slave to live out his days as a carpenter in India.

Rabbi Jesus spent a considerable amount of time at the Palace of the British in Rome and sometime around 48 AD, he left for Egypt to pursue his greatest esoteric goal.

The spiritual knowledge from his secret education in the Essene and Druid movements was soon to be elevated to the highest level possible - initiation into the innermost rite of the Egyptian temples.

Cont'd

When Emperor Constantine conquered the East in 324, he sent his Spanish religious advisor, Osius of Cordoba, to Alexandria with letters to several Biscops exhorting them to make peace among their own.

But the mission failed and Constantine, probably at the suggestions of Osius, then issued a decree commanding all Presbyters and their subordinates "be mounted on asses, mules and horses belonging to the public and travel to the city of Nicaea" in the Roman province of Bithymia, the country of Asia. The Presbyters were instructed by the Emperor to bring with them the manuscripts from which they orated to the rabble (that's us!) "wrapped and bound in leather".

Constantine saw in this developing system of belief the opportunity to make a combined state religion and protect it by law. The first general church council was thus convened and the year was 325.

On 21 June, the day of the Summer Solstice, (and under those cult conditions) a total of 2048 "presbyters, deacons, sub-deacons, acolytes and exorcists" gathered at Nicaea to decide what Christianity really was, what it would be, what writings were to be used and who was to be it's God.

Ancient church evidence established that a new 'god' was to be approved by the Roman Emperor and an earlier attempt (circa 210) to deify either Judas Khrestus or his twin brother Rabbi Jesus (or somebody else) had been 'declined'. Therefore, as late as 325, the Christian religion did not have an official god.

After a long and bitter debate, a vote was finally taken and it was with a majority show of hands that Judas Khrestus and Rabbi Jesus both became God (161votes for and 157 votes against). The Emperor effectively joined elements of the two individual life stories of the twin brothers into a singular creation. The doctrine of the Celtic / British church of the west was democratically attached to the Presbyters stories of the east.

A deification ceremony was then performed 'Apotheosis'. Thus the deified ones were then called 'saviours' and looked upon as gods. Temples, altars, and images with attributes of divinity were then erected and public holidays proclaimed on their birthdays.

Following the original example set by the deification of Caesar, their funerals were dramatized as the scene of their resurrection and immortality. All these godly attributes passed as a legal right to Emperor Constantine's new deity, Jesus Christ.

Cont'd

The first English language manuscripts of the Bible remained in Bacon's possession for nearly a year. During that time ... "he hammered the various styles of the translators into the unity, rhythm, and music of Shakespearean prose, wrote the prefaces and created the whole scheme of the Authorized Version.

At the completion of the editing, King James ordered a 'dedication to the King' to be drawn up and included in the opening pages. He also wanted the phrase 'Appointed to be read in the churches' to appear on the title page.

The King James Bible is considered by many today to be the 'original' Bible and therefore 'genuine' and all later revisions simply counterfeits forged by 'higher critics'.

Others think the King James Bible is 'authentic' and 'authorized' and presents the original words of the authors as translated into English from the 'original' Greek texts. However, as Tony points out, the 'original' Greek text was not written until around the mid fourth century and was a revised edition of writings compiled decades earlier in Aramaic and Hebrew.

Those earlier documents no longer exist and the Bibles we have today are five linguistic removes from the first bibles written. What was written in the 'original originals' is quite unknown. It is important to remember that the words 'authorized' and 'original', as applied to the Bible do not mean 'genuine', 'authentic' or 'true'.

By the early third century, it became well noted that a problem was occurring . politics! In 251AD, the number of Presbyter's (roving orator or priest) writings had increased dramatically and bitter arguments raged between opposing factions about their conflicting stories.

According to Presbyter Albius Theodoret (circa 255), there were "more than two hundred" variant gospels in use in his time. In 313, groups of Presbyters and Biscops (Bishops) violently clashed over the variations in their writings and "altar was set against altar" in competing for an audience and territory.

Cont'd........

Later, Pope Alexander VI ordered all copies of the Talmud destroyed, with the Spanish Grand Inquisitor Tomas de Torquemada (1420-98) responsible for the elimination of 6,000 volumes at Salamanca alone.

Solomon Romano (1554) also burnt many thousands of Hebrew scrolls and, in 1559, every Hebrew book in the city of Prague was confiscated.

The mass destruction of Jewish books included hundreds of copies of the Old Testament and caused the irretrievable loss of many original handwritten documents.

The oldest text of the Old Testament that survived, before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls" was said to be the Bodleian Codex (Oxford), which was dated to circa 1100 AD.

In an attempt by the church to remove damaging Rabbinic information about Jesus Christ from the face of the earth, the Inquisition burnt 12,000 volumes of the Talmud.

In 1607, forty-seven men (some records say fifty four) took two years and nine months to re-write the Bible and make it ready for press. It was, by the order of King James, issued with a set of personal 'rules' the translators were to follow. Upon its completion in 1609, it was handed over to the King James for his final approval.

However, "It was self evident that James was not competent to check their work and edit it, so he passed the manuscripts onto the greatest genius of all time... Sir Francis Bacon"