₦airaland Forum

@Tonye-t: What's with all this cussing and swearing?

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=678700.msg8420019#msg8420019 date=1306759153]I swear[/quote][quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=678700.msg8420019#msg8420019 date=1306759153]you are a big fool ! better still a HUGE COWARD! [/quote][quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=678700.msg8420219#msg8420219 date=1306761111]. . . damn[/quote]This most certainly is not the Christian witness.

ogoamaka99:
I expected direct answers to the issues. . .

^

aletheia:
^Crowds are not the mark of authenticity. The world loves a spectacle. That the flock of lemmings rushes pell-mell down the slope into the sea doesn't make it right. And it is written: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God (Lk 16:15).
^Here is your answer; you are actually destroying your case.
1) The world (society) pays money as gate fees to attend Satanic Rock concerts and other worldly activities. So how was paying to attend CE "cross-over night" different from paying to attend a Rock Concert?
2) Did anyone pay to listen to Jesus, John the Baptist or Peter and Paul preach? Instead it is written: freely ye have received, freely give (Matt 10:.
Acts 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

And so we see that Pastor Chris is a spiritual descendant of Simon Magus.
^And so on. . .the only argument you make is that of crowds seeking to be entertained like the Ancient Romans. There are over a billion Muslims as well. Going by your reasons. . .then they are following the True Way. Please bring forth biblical based reasons as why these charlatans are genuine! We already know that the measure of crowds is not it, neither the number of jets owned.

Your whining and your arrogant boast is typical and has been described by the Lord Jesus already, so we are not surprised:

Rev 3:17-20. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and unclothed: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Again I say to you: You must be born again.

It is you who has introduced irrelevancies by arguing that crowds and charging gate fees are a mark of authenticity. I am still waiting for one bible-based reason why the aforementioned charlatans are MOGs.

ogajim:
A good friend of mine was told a couple of weeks ago that as a worker he shouldn't wear native every Sunday to Church as a worker, A Nigerian Church where Nigerian attire is not welcomed?

^
That's because dressing in native will undermine the prosperity brand.

At topic: Jesus founded the church.

The problem arises from the centuries old and tradition-filled connotations of the word "church".

As used in the scriptures; it means "called out" and occurs 111 times in the KJV (or 112 times if counting the Greek ἐκκλησία itself). It does not refer to some sort of hierarchical ecclesiastical structure, nor is the biblical usage with regard to physical buildings.

[quote author=Mickelson's enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries]G1577 ἐκκλησία ekklesia (ek-klay-see'-ah) n.
1. (properly) a "calling out"
2. (concretely) a called out assembly of citizens
3. (specifically, of Christ) the community of the Redeemed of Christ whether being on earth or in heaven or both
{used only of people, not a location, structure, etc. Of Christ, used only of the Redeemed, not of the unredeemed in their midst}
[from a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564]
KJV: assembly, church
Root(s): G1537, G2564
Compare: G4864
See also: G2822[/quote]Thus: Heb 12:22-24 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

ogoamaka99:
. . .boast of large follower ships in this country??.
. . .foreigners are spending their money and time paying for flights to come and see these men of GOD and to worship in their churches instead of avoiding them? Please I desire an answer.

^Crowds are not the mark of authenticity. The world loves a spectacle. That the flock of lemmings rushes pell-mell down the slope into the sea doesn't make it right. And it is written: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God (Lk 16:15).

ogoamaka99:
Last year December/new-year eve i.e. cross over night Christ Embassy charged gate fee to control crowd that surged to go inside where Pastor Chris was to minister. Do society pay money as gate fee to go and listen to the preaching of a 419, a criminal pastor or a pastor that is considered a fraudster?. Please I desire an answer.

^Here is your answer; you are actually destroying your case.
1) The world (society) pays money as gate fees to attend Satanic Rock concerts and other worldly activities. So how was paying to attend CE "cross-over night" different from paying to attend a Rock Concert?
2) Did anyone pay to listen to Jesus, John the Baptist or Peter and Paul preach? Instead it is written: freely ye have received, freely give (Matt 10:.
Acts 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

And so we see that Pastor Chris is a spiritual descendant of Simon Magus.

ogoamaka99:
Sometimes last year pastor Chris held a night of bliss in London. . .bla, bla, bla

Gate fees were charged.

^And so on. . .the only argument you make is that of crowds seeking to be entertained like the Ancient Romans. There are over a billion Muslims as well. Going by your reasons. . .then they are following the True Way. Please bring forth biblical based reasons as why these charlatans are genuine! We already know that the measure of crowds is not it, neither the number of jets owned.

Your whining and your arrogant boast is typical and has been described by the Lord Jesus already, so we are not surprised:

Rev 3:17-20. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Again I say to you: You must be born again.

. . .so this thread has degenerated to name calling?

@ogoamaka99: Kindly elucidate the verses in the bible that use the word "destiny". This is an example of the impure reasoning that pervades the church today; where worldly principles are presented with a veneer of Christianity; all they need is a sprinkling of bible verses and voila - the sheep are led astray!

The word destiny and its meaning has it roots in the pagan mythologies of Europe and the East, which is why synonyms for it are "Karma", "Fate", "Kismet" etc. Also the title of your post shows that you do not understand the meaning and implications of the word "destiny". As seen by its full meaning; "destiny" cannot be altered: See Sophocles Oedipus Rex (or Ola Rotimi's adaptation The Gods are not to blame) which fully elucidate the pagan philosophy underlying that word.

The completed work of Jesus Christ through which we experience the mercy of God shows that the word destiny has no place in the life of Christians.

And of course your scare-mongering tactics are noted.

ogoamaka99:
All these goes to confirm that it is very dangerous to mock, despise or abuse MOG because doing so may attract the wrath of GOD upon us and as well destroy our life and destiny.

^
If as it is written the saints of God will judge the fallen angels, is it the lesser minions of these false teachers that are imperiling the souls of many by making merchandise of them?

The Lord Jesus did not leave us without the means to recognize these false prophets and teachers:

Matt 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

These so-called "men of God" are recognized as false by their fruit. And it is the duty of every true Christian to sound out the warning.

But of course you are of the party described below:
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Understand therefore that you must be born again.

ogoamaka99:
charlatans. . .like Oyedepo, pastor Chris, pastor E.A. Adeboye, pastor Mathew Ashimolowo etc.

^
Like I said on the other thread: Point made.

BTW a charlatan is a[i]person who makes elaborate, fraudulent, and often voluble claims to skill or knowledge; a quack or fraud. A person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill[/i]

Exactly like the aforementioned especially the trio of Chris, Oyedepo and Ashimolowo.

ogoamaka99:
@aletheia,

With due respect i doubt if you know the full meaning of charlatan.

Anyone who preaches the sort of rubbish that Ashimolowo preaches and claims that is the gospel of Christ is a charlatan. Also include anyone who claims such a one is one of God's "Field Marshals".

ogoamaka99:
And who are the charlatans?

ogoamaka99:
Benny HINN, Bishop Oyedepo, Pastor Chris, Pastor E.A. Adeboye, pastor Mathew Ashimolowo etc.

Point made.

^The poster has aptly captured the predicament of the Almajiri. I used to interact with one of them while he was growing up. The last time I saw him, he was a rather unkempt teenager who was hanging around motor parks.
Their leaders lie to them and use them and teach them to hate other Nigerians. . .meanwhile they carry looted funds to London to shop to the extent that a shop in London will introduce Hausa as a language of communication!

xterra2:
Easy money my people  

^
If it's easy, ask John Togo.

frosbel:
1. In church normally it is constantly mentioned that if you do not tithe you are under a curse. I refuse to accept this. We are under grace and not the law.

2. Telling people to raise their hands and pay their tithes and offerings is not the right way to collect money.  People should be allowed to contribute voluntarily how much they have purposed in their hearts and in secret.

3. Money collected from Christians is never meant to be for physical church buildings, it is for the needs of the saints , poor and oppressed.

4. God does not ask his children to pay him tithes and offerings so that he will bless them, if we who are evil will not demand money from our children because we take care of them, then how much more God. Are we better than he ?

^
All these that you have enumerated is the typical modus operandi of pentecostal churches like RCCG, Living Faith, and Christ Embassy. I may be mistaken but I am not aware that DL does this.

Moreover your assertion that "Money collected from Christians is never meant to be for physical church buildings" is actually weak and can not really be supported by the scripture. Consider this verse: "Act 19:9 But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus." We are not told how this hall was procured; but supposing it needed to be rented, who do you think would provide money for renting it? Is it not the believers? On the other hand if Tyrannus was a believer; where would the funds for the upkeep and maintenance of the hall come from; if not believers?

I know churches where believers are urged to give a tenth portion of their income to support the pastors and their families (the Word of God does make provision for ministers of the gospel to procure a living by it). But it is not made a condition for grace and they make quite clear the reason for asking people to give and that is to support their pastors and missionaries. And these churches do render a financial account at the end of each fiscal year.

frosbel:
I believe that the rapture and the second coming are one and the same thing. To suggest that there is some secret taking away of saints and then a 7 year period of great tribulation and then the second coming is wrong.

^
What is the official DL doctrine on the Second Coming? I am sure you were at one time of the persuasion that the rapture of saints is distinct and separate from the second coming. Seeing as that even in the time of the Apostles; there was some confusion in this regard (the incident of John 21:23 is quite instructive as to how even a plain saying of Jesus can be over-analyzed and misinterpreted); ought you not to be patient with the brethren with regard to this, gently communicating the truth. It's not as if they deny that Jesus is Lord or that He is returning; it's just that they have been misled as to the nature of the Second Advent by centuries of Roman Catholic traditions and teaching.

frosbel:
Read some articles I posted on this form about this issue about last week

^
Did your articles address the origins of the traditions concerning the "7 year tribulation and secret rapture"?

frosbel:
1. Once you leave the church, it is almost as if you left the faith

^
I really don't see that as a problem. No one is forced to remain. And certainly people are welcome to worship with them.

frosbel:
2. You cannot challenge any doctrine, such as the tithe and offerings etc . If you do, you cannot be a worker and may have to leave the church. Whatever the leader says is final just like the pope's infallibility.

But even the words of Paul who was a mighty apostle of GOD were carefully scrutinised by the Berean Christians to see if they were true.

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

^
The Church is not a democracy. There must be order and we are to be submissive to those that God has placed in positions of authority. Tithe and offerings are not foundational doctrines. . .so I don't see any point getting all hot and bothered about it if the way it is presented does not add to the completed work of Jesus on the cross. But it makes sense for one not to be a worker if he does not agree with the doctrines of the church. I do not believe that Kumuyi considers himself infallible. You do him an injustice (I guess it's your passion about these things speaking).

frosbel:
For me the most important issues are ;

1. Real repentance from wickedness and sin
2. Holiness without which no man will see the Lord
3. Good works for the salvation of souls and care of the needy, especially those of the household of God.

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."- James 1:27

^
Does DL go against any of these in their teaching. Isn't it rather the case that DL makes other denominations uncomfortable because they more than most others do emphasize holiness and separation from the world not just in word but in deed.

P.S. Doesn't those of the household of God include full time pastors and missionaries and their families? And if the church decides to set aside a tithe (or a tenth) of their income to support these ones; is it a wrong?

thehomer:
Please explain how the next chapter says anything about some people not dying before the rapture.

^
It says no such thing! You make vague and unsubstantiated claims. Why don't you post the relevant verses claiming such here for us to see? I'm afraid you are as confused about the Jesus' return as Harold Camping.

frosbel:
I like Deeper life so much because they are focused on holiness and pleasing God. For me this is the most essential doctrine that we should all be aware of.

But I am struggling with the following doctrines :

frosbel:
- Tithe and offerings

^
Nothing wrong with offerings unless there is a specific practice that you find objectionable (perhaps you need to be more specific here). On tithes: no doubt this is controversial but do they make it compulsory or teach that one will go to hell for not tithing (as some people teach)? Ultimately; God is the one who will judge our giving (He sees the motives and attitudes in our hearts that drives our "tithes" and "offerings".

frosbel:
- Rapture Vs second coming

^
What exactly do they believe concerning the "rapture"? Please be specific here so that we can consider it. You do realize that though the word "rapture" does not occur in the Bible, it is derived from the Greek harpazo referring to the catching up of the saints at Christ's return. Does DL deny the second coming of the Lord?

frosbel:
- Strict cult like organization

^
How so? Explain this please.

I really would appreciate it if you are more specific on these concerns of yours. As currently stated they are rather vague.

seanet02:
Just setting up seven man committee my foot!!
When Fashola is already talking about completing other Power projects you are just setting up a committee
Rubbish

^
Are you well at all? Everyone has to start somewhere. . .even Lagos. Don't allow hate to blind you or render you foolish.

joecrack:
I've said my own for the umpteenth time,the emir did made a flaw by his actions,this was just a move to send some kind of message,obviously they see sambo as a light weight and an outsider(they say his father migrated from auchi).would he have done this to atiku while he was vp,hell no,let him dare and see if contracts wont be cut off from his family,by the way what was he doing,its not like he is busy person

^I believe you 've identified the crux of the matter. Namadi Sambo is not considered a 'blue-blood' or accepted by the "Northern Establishment". Indeed there is a whispering campaign against him that he is an Auchi man. . .so this is all politics to isolate and humiliate him. Don't be surprised if down the line, some so-called northern politicians begin to clamor that Jonathan replace him as VP.

all too soon, we Nigerians rush to offer opinions on issues without looking at the bigger picture.

Alh Harem goes & Uche Nana appears. Who's deceiving who?

Another day. . .another list. . .another bunch of fools rushing to judgement.

@OP: what a pretentious rant!

apocalypse:
@Martian.
It actually saddens me that people can't see the ironies in their faith. Christianity teaches us to love and care for neighbours and even enemies alike but it is in the Bible that some people are chosen - isrealites - while others are unbelievers , was it not the same God who made them. Wars have been waged against the philistines and egyptians for centuries and are seen as evil people. If truly he's a God of love and equality attacks on other tribes wouldn't be encouraged cos they all stem from the same ancestor , Adam , right ?.
I don't even want to get started on muslims who claim to be in a religion of peace but proclaim war on unbelievers.

Science has answered more questions than religion has ever had.

^You need to read the bible more. Your claims are wrong. What questions has science answered?

Two pages of hot air & mass hysteria. In these season of rumors. . .there is a new ministerial list everyday depending on which newspaper you are reading.

Enigma:
One could go on about other things that Joagbaje believes about Jesus that similarly inform his obtuseness but really sometimes you just leave him to his ways.

^
I guess we could. . .but the problem is that keeping silent gives him room to deceive others with his false doctrines.

The Imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ By David J. Stewart

“Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God IMPUTETH righteousness without works” (Romans 4:6).

What in the world does that big word mean . . . IMPUTETH? The word “impute” means “to pass to one’s account, to count over” It means that Jesus places His righteousness upon our record when we trust upon Him for salvation. Romans chapter four speaks concerning Abraham, “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was COUNTED UNTO HIM for righteousness” (Romans 4:3). What a beautiful truth! Abraham was not saved by good works; but rather, he believed God and was saved by Christ’s righteousness. Christ’s perfection was imputed (placed) on Abraham’s record in Heaven. God the Father viewed Abraham thereafter as having the righteousness of Christ. What a Savior!

Abraham believed God concerning the coming Messiah which was to save His people from their sins . . . “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness” (Genesis 15:6). Why was Abraham able to simply believe God in place of merit or good works? It's simply because Jesus paid the price for mankind's sins. You see, Abraham could NOT please God in his own self-righteousness, nor can we (Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 10:3,4; Titus 3:5). No matter how much good we may do here on earth, our sins are still recorded in Heaven. Our sins must be dealt with. This is why Jesus came to earth to pay the price for our sins with His own precious blood . . . “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” All mankind is corrupt and destitute of God. Even in our sincerest efforts, humanity is tarnished with the curse of sin and rebellion. We need HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, i.e., the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. We are saved by Jesus' righteousness through faith.

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

We read in Romans 4:8, “Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not IMPUTE sin.” Not only was Christ’s righteousness imputed (counted) to Abraham’s record, but Abraham’s sinful record was imputed to Christ. Literally, Jesus became as sin for us and died a sinner's death . . . “For HE HATH MADE HIM TO BE SIN FOR US, WHO KNEW NO SIN; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him” (2nd Corinthians 5:21). Amen!

We read concerning Abraham . . .

“And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was IMPUTED to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be IMPUTED, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead” (Romans 4:22-24).

This is a beautiful passage of Scripture, teaching that God is willing to IMPUTE Christ's righteousness to us as well, just as He did to Abraham, if we'll simply believe on the Lord, “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

These Scriptures were written for us, that we might also have Christ’s righteousness imputed to our record, and our sins imputed to Christ’s record. He who knew no sin, became as sin, that we who knew no righteousness could be made the righteousness of God in Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:21). What a wonderful truth! To think that Jesus would actually bear our sins upon Himself and sacrifice His precious blood for our sins—we are not worthy. Thankfully, God looked beyond our faults through His love and saw our need . . . “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

I cannot express in Words how much I thank the Lord for what He has done for a sinful worm like me. Do you realize all that you will miss if you reject Christ as your Savior? Eternal life is a free gift (Romans 5:15; 6:23), which anyone may have simply by acknowledging their guilt of sin and believing on the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness . . . “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43). It is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ that we are saved, so that God the Father may view us as having the righteousness of Christ which is imputed unto us at salvation . . .

“Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God IMPUTETH righteousness without works” (Romans 4:6).

“And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was IMPUTED unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God” (James 2:23). Would you like to be the friend of God? It all begins when you say yes to Jesus and let Him become your Savior. Jesus earnestly wants to impute your sin to His record and impute His righteousness to your record. All you must do to be saved is admit your guilty condition before God for violating His holy Law (Romans 3:19), and then trust upon the Son of God to wash away your sins with His shed blood. Admit you’re a sinner deserving of Hell. Turn to Christ now in faith and trust Him to forgive your sins and cleanse you.

Joagbaje:
Start with the known first ,don't try to dabble into what you don't understand .Even though abraham had been ordained to be a father. When did Abraham have the Child? At 100 years shilkenna. if man had been ordained to salvation through christ. The salvation took place at his death. The foreknowledge didn't give man the experience until the price was paid,

^The same old trick of professing some occult understanding of God's scriptures that only a select few "MOG"s can understand. Clearly, you do not understand what you profess. Your own words continue to indict you and stand as a witness against you:

Joagbaje:
No. The only thing that takes away man sin, is not their works , but the blood of Jesus . Shed on the cross. It travelled back to Adam and also to our future.

Has God ever declared a man righteous if still there remains sin unatoned? If it is only the Blood of Jesus that takes away sin; how then were Abraham, Moses and others declared righteous in the eyes of God. The stumbling-block before you that veils the understanding of your heart is that you do not realize that the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation is the testimony of Jesus' redemptive sacrifice. That is the key to unlocking the riches of the scriptures. That is why we can read in the book of Proverbs this verses: Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? (Proverbs 30:4)
And immediately realize the answers are set forth thus:
1) Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13)
2) who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:3)
3) what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (Luke 1:31-32)

Again and again the OT scriptures made known by similitudes and parables (e.g. Abraham & Isaac on Moriah; the Passover, the genealogy of Noah in Genesis 5; the story of Cain and Abel, the bronze serpent in the wilderness and the Children of Israel drinking from the rock and so on; the nature of God's redemptive plan. . .which is that even from the foundation of the world the Blood of the Lamb would save all those who are being saved whether OT saints or NT saints.
I have asked you several salient questions pertaining to the salvation of the OT saints, (the latest being this: In the year that King Uzziah died; how was Isaiah's guilt atoned for when He saw the Lord? Name just one OT saint of whom God declared that he was counted righteous because he kept the law or by his works? )
More questions for you:
1) What is the significance of Joseph's life and the meaning of his Egyptian name?
2) Why was God angry with Moses for striking the rock; instead of speaking to it?
3) What is the spiritual significance of Moses dying on Mount Pisgah in Moab instead of leading Israel into Canaan.
4) What is the meaning and significance of Joshua's name? What is the spiritual significance of Joshua and not Moses leading Israel into Canaan. Hints: Jesus means exactly the same as Joshua. And this is written for our benefit: For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

Joagbaje:
I still ask you if it were possible for man to be saved without the blood of Jesus , of what benefit is his death? .

^
You are only arguing with yourself; for it is you who has claimed that men are declared righteous without the atoning Blood of Jesus. You have said that men were declared righteous on the basis of their works. . .and yet we read this words in the OT: "but the just shall live by his faith" (Habbakuk 2:4);

[b]Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required (Psalms 40:6);

To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats (Isaiah 1:11);

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. (Isaiah 66:2-3)

God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Psalms 53:2-3)[/b]

Joagbaje:
. . .all these are new testament quotes. Men were called righteous ,by deed in the old testament. Abel was righteous, lot was ,David and all the ggod guys.

Hebrews 11:4
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

^How ironic! You seek to introduce a dichotomy into God's words by dismissing Romans 3:20-25 that clearly teaches that by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in God's sight as NT quotes. You clearly reveal yourself as being firmly in Satan's camp for you oppose the written word of God. Even a baby Christian knows that Romans 3:20-25 echoes verses from the OT; some of which are posted above. Secondly in trying to support your egregious error you quote from Hebrews (in the NT) on Abel; Hebrews 11 which clearly lists OT saints by name and positively affirms that they lived and pleased God by faith. And faith as we know is not the Works of the Law.
You are yet to show a single verse of the bible where God calls even one person righteous by his deeds in the OT or NT. Instead in Isaiah we see written: "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
Was it Abraham that chose God or was God that chose Abraham?
And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac. (Joshua 24:2-3)

Joagbaje:
But now in the new dispensation, the righteousness of the law and works will not stand. Because there is a new type of righteousness. This is in christ. You have it and become it when christ comes into you.

Philippians 3:9
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

^ As it is written in Job: "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" You string together bible verses without understanding the words. The righteousness of the Law is not acceptable to God; it never was acceptable whether in the OT or NT. It leads to death. That is the meaning of "the letter killeth" that you lot so love to misquote. as you see from Isaiah (in the OT); any righteousness that is not the righteousness of God is as a menstrual rag. There as always been only one Righteousness acceptable to God and that is the Righteousness of God himself. The Psalms attest to this.

In Romans we find written:
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. (Romans 10:3-5)
Thus we see that by the law comes knowledge of sin and judgment:
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. (Romans 9:31)

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:20-28)

The scriptures are thus clear that no one can attain unto righteousness by keeping the requirements of the law. Only Jesus kept perfectly all the requirements of the law. But here you are teaching that Abraham and others attained righteousness by keeping all the requirements of the law.

Joagbaje:
I think you need to study on the power of the blood of christ . Because  you are insulting it. No man had ability to be recreated without sin being judged on the cross. The blood had to be shed for man. Man at his best is still a sinner by nature . Even though they were called righteous according to their dispensation.

^The sin of Abraham and others was judged on the cross of Jesus. They were called righteous according to the Word of God because the righteousness of God through Jesus was imputed to them. Abraham saw Jesus: Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. (John 8:56)

The standard of righteousness has remained the same because God changes not. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. To make the claim that God's standard for righteousness has changed is to insult the Sovereign God and accuse him of being fickle and changing. But the Word of God stands sure forever and ever:

For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8

Joagbaje:
Let's lay personality aside, you start attacking personality of a poster when you get hooked. Be civilised and discipline for once as a christian  ,stay on topic , not on personality of a poster. It is a sign of weakness  and manipulation. Let's stay in the bible .

^ Who is attacking your personality? When are you going to lay aside your pride? The truth must hurt you. Because people do not kow-tow to you and allow your false doctrines to pass unchallenged; because we do not sing praises of what a gifted teacher you are; you are feeling insecure and taking that to be a personal attack or insult.
Please repent and go back again to Bible Study. Humble yourself and turn to Jesus that He might guide you, instead of depending on another man.

Joagbaje:
Harold camping is of christian science.

^
You know how to lie. Pride never allows you to admit when you are wrong. Clearly you are no Christian, for those in whom is the Spirit of Christ have no difficulty in admitting that they mistaken.

[quote author=familyradio.com][center]A Brief Biography of Harold Camping
President of Family Stations Inc.[/center]

Harold Egbert Camping received a B.S. degree in Civil Engineering from the University of California at Berkeley in 1942. He and his family were lifelong members the Christian Reformed Church until the year 1988. He served there as an Elder and Bible teacher for many years. Harold Camping earned his living from his own construction business, which he began shortly after the end of World War II.

In 1958 he, together with two others, formed the non-profit ministry of Family Stations, Inc. (Family Radio - a Christian educational network) in which he has served as President. Eventually Harold Camping sold his business and became a full-time volunteer employer of Family Radio serving as President and as General Manager.[/quote]Where did the Christian Reformed Church come from?

Historically, we came from the Netherlands. But today, although a majority of our members are still from Dutch backgrounds, we can't honestly be called a Dutch church - unless we're also called a Korean church, a Navajo church, a Southeast Asian church, a French-Canadian church, a Hispanic-American church, an African-American church, a melting pot church.

What do they believe?

What sets the Christian Reformed Church off from many other denominations is its embrace of key teachings of John Calvin. In a nutshell, these all center on the sovereignty of God. The biblical teachings of predestination and election give us comfort because they assure us that no one and nothing, not even our own bad choices, can snatch us out of God's hand. And the realization that God owns all of creation and continues to assert his rule over it gives us a sure hope for the future.

Clearly then the Christian Reformed Church from whose fold Harold Camping left is not Christian Science. Can the beliefs and teachings of Harold Camping himself be said to be Christian Science? Not by a long shot.

As the bible says: "be slow to speak." It would have stood you in good stead if you had heeded that injunction. Clearly you were hasty in concluding that Harold Camping is Christian Science. Moreover you lied when you claimed that Family Radio was owned by the Christian Science organization.
It is clear that you are ignorant about the teachings and quirky beliefs of Christian Science.

Joagbaje:
When was the blood shed. Remission took place at the place of the blood. Not before it.

^ And yet you quoted this from Ephesians; even highlighting certain key phrases.

Joagbaje:
Ephesians 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

^Clearly then you do not understand the import and ramifications of this verses. You people teach that faith declares things that are not into reality and yet you baulk at the fact that Abraham and others were saved by the Blood of Jesus before his crucifixion. You patently ignore your very own words to wit:

Joagbaje:
But does that foreknowledge make us saved automatically ? "No. The only thing that takes away man sin, is not their works , but the blood of Jesus . Shed on the cross. It travelled back to Adam and also to our future.

You ignore the power of God and his Word which declares this: (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. (Romans 4:17)
The reason you reject this clear scriptures is that it downgrades you from your supposed "superhuman-better than-Abraham-and-James-status" which is so prevalent in your theology. I counsel you to go study the parable of the laborers wherein is revealed the Grace and Divine Prerogative of God: Matthew 20:1-16

Joagbaje:
There she goes, yet you don't insult.

^
Where is this imagined insult of yours? After all this while; you still do not see the (m) written beside my name?

Joagbaje:
Can the blood of animals purge away sin? The blood of christ was shed 2000 years ago . Righteousness was credited to Abraham. But for the christian It's different. Righteousness was not credited to us . We became the very righteousness itself. We became very the righteousness of God.

^
The usual wordplay with the 'little lie" slipped in the midst of truth that confuses those with little knowledge of the scriptures. Who here made the claim that the blood of animals purges away sin? Certainly not Olaadegbu or myself. 
That is the devil's M.O. right from Eden. The red highlighted part of your post is an outright lie that you mixed in with the truth. Christians are credited with the righteousness of Christ, just as Abraham was credited with the righteousness of Christ. As we know even Satan quotes scriptures for his ends.
It is written:
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (Romans 3:20-25)
It is also written:
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (1 Corinthians 1:30)

Joagbaje:
Many people were counted righteous in the OLD testament [. . .] by works or by the law. They were called righteous men.

This words of yours show you to be at best in error and at worst a deceiver of the brethren. They stand in stark diametric opposition to the very words of God. It is written:
We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, [size=16pt]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law[/size], but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: [size=16pt]for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/size] (Galatians 2:15-16)
In the year that King Uzziah died; how was Isaiah's guilt atoned for when He saw the Lord? Name just one OT saint of whom God declared that he was counted righteous because he kept the law or by his works?

Joagbaje:
But christ is the essence of righteousness itself. And our union with him grant us the same righteousness God has.

^
And yet you claim that Christ's righteousness is not credited to Christians. You are a pastor in Christ Embassy and yet you have such a wishy-washy grasp of the basic principles (the milk) of the Christian Faith. No wonder CE is in "endless error hurled". If this is the understanding of a pastor; I shudder to think how it must be for those not pastors there.

Joagbaje:
If men could be born again without the blood of Jesus , of what necessity is his death?

Being saved is the same as being born again. Simple. No one OT or NT was saved (born again) outside of Jesus. The only difference was that in OT times one had to be a Jew (or a proselyte) to partake of this blessing through the Law of Moses by being admitted into the Nation of Israel through the physical act of circumcision.

Be very careful, because you are now treading a thin line wherein you deny the power of God and the gospel by claiming that men are saved apart from Jesus by their works.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Galatians 2:21)

By your claim, you are telling us that Christ died in vain.

Joagbaje:
Besides I think this family radio is owned by christian science. Which is known to be a cult .

What rich irony! Just as Loveworld TV etc is owned by Christ Embassy; another known cult. In any case your surmise is wrong, Family Radio is "owned" by Harold Camping not Christian Science.