₦airaland Forum

dareabiola98: "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.  (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 31:17)" . These were innocent children that Moses commanded to be killed and 3yr old girls raped...Jesus knew of this...Yet he said "I have not come to break the law but to fulfil' and he warned against even breaking 1 JOT...Attend to this and explain to me how its not so...when u qouted the qur'an,we answerd u and tried to show u the right interpretation..I'd like u to interprete this 2 me....As young as 3yrs old girls!!!

Will repeating yourself change anything you have said earlier

dareabiola98: I weep when I see christians who do not really understand the bible...if jesus changed any law from the law of moses...he'd be least in the kingdom...as he has qouted "think not that I've come to destroy the laws of the prophets,I've come to fulfil,whoever breaks on jot of the law shall be called least in the kingdom"....its either jesus contradicted himself or he didn't know what he was saying...

Ignorance is indeed a curse. Look at a muslim attempting to explain basic biblical doctrine to me. The Jews tried to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath because He healed a blind man - Now, under the Mosiac law, you were not to do anything on the sabbath day. So, why did Jesus heal the man on the Sabbath?

lanrexlan: You have started your blind game again,can't you see Surah 9:5 and 6 there? Limit your groundnuts

Ah, the muslim community have left their muslim forum. Welcome mate

dareabiola98: So u do not believe in Moses?...Anything moses had done...jesus came to fulfil it.Hipocrites are so much here.Don't change the topic,obviously when you made claims in the qur'an,we tried to show u the real meaning but u didn't yield...and we made qoutes from your scripture...Defend that!!!

I really don't know how to engage you . You made a point and I explained it to you. Again, show me were Jesus killed anyone. You are all over the place. Your theme so far is this - there is violence in the Bible as well so stop complaining of the violence in Islam. It's a typical Islamic mantra that is narrated all the time when they have no explanation of the acts of violence that is practiced in Islam today.

Imagine me asking you why are you stealing when you are caught stealing and your response is "Well, your grand-father stole as well". Can't Islam ever stand alone without dragging Christianity into it? Can't you refute my statements independently without bring Moses into it

dareabiola98: You know where the problem is..DOGMATISM....when u make a point,u shout out loud...All that I've qouted,are they not in the bible?

Did I deny that they weren't in the Bible? Read my post again

dareabiola98: I don't know them,nobody knows them,what makes u think they are not ordinary soldiers trained for that course....I have over 3000+ muslim as friends and non blows up things...Whatever this is,Allah knows best

Yet not one member of Boko Haram is a Christian . We know them, we know their leader that shows his face - he is a MUSLIM

Mintayo: Guy you are so funny,if you calling some muslim ignorant for burning churches and killing in the name of your god,are u saying that majority of the muslims you have in islamic countries are not muslims? Saudi,iraq,iran,pakistan,egypt etc?
They are the ones practising the real message of islam!

Ask them again abeg

dareabiola98: I have so many things to say unto you...but I shall not bear them now till u reply to my claims

Your claims are taken from Islamic websites that I read all the time . It's nothing new. However, this thread is about the persecution of Christians in muslim land up to this VERY DAY.

We are talking about the Muslim Brotherhood killing Christian Copts and burning their Churches you are talking about wars fought between Israel and other nations thousands of years ago.

dareabiola98: OF All the verses I've stated....Please don't run away o...I'll highlight this one....
Numbers 31:17-18
"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

I will concede if you can show me where Jesus Christ killed anyone or taught Christians should kill people. You want verses from the Quran and Hadith:

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

Do you want me to tell you about the raids Mohammad went on and the people he killed? Or the Jewish man he tortured and killed and married his wife after killing her husband

dareabiola98: "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)"

THERE ARE SO MUCH MORE but I'll stop there

Why are you stopping? All you have proved is that there is indeed violence in Islam. What you don't realize is that Christianity has undergone a transformation. For example, when people steal and commit adultery - we don't stone them like they way they used to do under the Mosaic law (law of Moses). Jesus Christ, set a new precedence - forgiveness and mercy.

Under the Mosiac law it was an eye for an eye - what did Jesus teach? Love your enemies, give them food, love those that despise and use you. Also, there is something called wisdom in the Bible, the books of proverbs talks about wisdom and using your common sense. Christianity has passed through this phase. Islam hasn't and that is why some muslims can read a Surah like 9:5 and 9:29 and take it literally and kill people for it. So, you don't need to tell us about the bible, because Christians know how to live in peace with all men. Tell your brothers in the North to leave Christians alone - if they want to bomb and kill themselves, we don't care, just leave Christians alone

khattab02: In such a situation, the sense of perseverance and tolerance of the muslims would have been messed up by the Makkans, if no action was taken by the muslims. That was why Allah now permitted the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam to fight back.

Again, you have provided no references for us to debate. There were several battles fought and I will give you the context and let you know who attacked first. Read up on the 1st four raids and see who conducted them? Also, read up on the battle of Badr and see who attacked first. Now, I have references

dareabiola98: Ididnt want to do thhis but I have to...I know you wouldn't let the Muslims breathe...so I'll show you JIHAD in world religious scriptures....starting with the BIBLE!!!

It's a free thread, you can post what you like. Before you start with JIHAD in the bible, go up north and see if Christians are practicing Jihad against your muslim brothers or if it is the other way around

dareabiola98: You listen to the News and you believe everything they say....THERE'S A WAR AGAINST ISLAM....u look @ all the countries u've mentioned and u look @ d pattern...the pecentage of christians in the north is only 4%...I want to kill christian,I'd risk the life of my muslim brothers when I could go to EKiti...does this appeal to you...I shall tell you something and its the truth...More muslims have died in the boko haram crises thhan christians.As it is in Iraq,they killed over 420 pple in egypt last month just in one day,boko haram killed 44 muslims while they were worshipping,it also blew up manu muslim primary schools,look @ what they did with libya(the most peaceful country in africa),the blew up palestine,blew up iran and iraq claiming they were looking for osama...over 22300 people died in iraq then(muslim!!!) Muslim are dying...u say muslim are terrorist...BY Allah, without posters,Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world...9/11 was a lie,So many 9/11 victims have converted to Islam..I don't mostly believe in stories(its not right in islam else there's proof) but I know so well, that SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT

Another confused muslim who is deviating from the topic. You sound very ignorant, do you know how many wars muslim have fought among themselves? I thought muslims are not supposed to kill themselves. What is happening in Syria today - Sunnis and Shias killing and slaughtering themselves like Chicken - are you going to blame that one on America. Or when Sadaam invaded Kuwait - who helped Kuwait? So, stop showing your ignorance is public

dareabiola98: I shall not say anything less I butress my point...Islam is not just a religion but a way of life...It teaches that when you are been driven out of your lands,Fight for It.....Lemme ask you something...If USA came into Nigeria and starts blowing stuffs up,and killing our wives and children,What do we have the army...Would we sit down and look.Likewise,when an islamic state is been oppressed,they are to FIGHT

Who is blowing up Nigeria today, is it not Boko Haram, are they not muslims - what have you done to protect your land and family. Stop playing pretend man and acting ignorant

dareabiola98: This Room is so nice to be in....U see!!! The problem with people is tha they do not read the scripture.....The qur'an was revealled to the prophet in parts...when a matter arises,Allah reveal a verse,some in command to the prophet and his companions,to be emulated by the followers and some to the whole of the world(directly).....THE JIHAD: Is not only a fight...its whatever you do(on an outing for Allah's course)...Allah stated..that he hates fitnah(oppresion),so he command of holy war,anywhere jihad was mentioned...God says 'verily this(jihad) is better than fitnah...Lemme tell you a story:....u see! The first woman that was killed in islam was sumayah..they pierced her through her private part and thousand of muslim were killed,men droven out of their houses,women and daughter raped and killed..this was an oppression God didn't like and He command "Fight them whereever u find them'...obviously,muslims weren't fighting muslim...the only way to describe the arabs then was that they were unbelievers

Dude, try and be coherent. Please provide sources to back up what you are saying i.e. from the Quran and Hadith. All you have said so far is your own version.

Here is your Hadith:

Sahih Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Do you see the reason for fighting? He is not fighting because they attacked him, he is fighting to impose Islam on others.


Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

khattab02: What many of you fail to realise about the verses of fight is that, those verses came in context of what the muslims were facing in Makkah during the early years of revelations. The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and his companions were forcefully driven out of Makkah and many were tortured and matryed; they were still being pursued to their new settlement with the main aim of totally getting ride of them. The closeness of the venues of Badr, Uhud and Khandaq battles fought by the Prophet(SAW) to Madinah clearly indicates that it was the Makkans who were after them.

The out of context mantra wouldn't save you. Muhammad was involved in several raids on the Caravans from Damascus, in one of those raids, his men killed people from the caravans. I fail to see how this was defensive.

So, are you saying ALL the wars/battles Mohammad fought were defensive? Your answer will determine the outcome of your contribution to this thread

khattab02: Al-bukhari and Muslim are most authentic.

Awesome, thank you

khattab02: There was a peace treaty between the muslims and the polytheist of Makkah and this peace treaty was actually broken by the polytheist of Makkah, by the time Allah subhanawataala reaches verse 5, he is giving an ultimatum to the polytheist to put tins straight in four months otherwise there will be a declaration of war. So in the battle field, Allah is giving the muslims an ultimatum to kill the polytheist wherever you find them, this is in context of battle field. If today there is a war between America and vietnam and the American president says to the American soldiers' wherever you find the vietnami soldiers you kill him' this is in context of war. But if I quote him out of context when there is no war, I will make him sound like a butcher and that will be devilish. Almost all the verses that speaks about fighting in the battle field, the next verse that follows is PEACE is BETTER. EG surah 9:6 says'if the polytheist wants peace,don't just let him go, escort him to a place of security so that he may hear the word of Allah' because Islam is the religion of peace.

Old story, you haven't quoted one Surah or Hadith to backup your explanation. In a scholarship debate, you have to refer to the same sources you have been talking about. I mentioned two verses, so please put them in the correct context.

From your explanation, you are saying the context is confined to 7th century Arabia wars - is that correct?

khattab02: Hmmmm impressive, well quoted and correct. But out context. I will give you the context but before i give you the context let me point some worth noting. This complete qur'an we have now was not given to the prophet(SAW) as a complete book, it was given to him as a revelation. It was revealed revelation after revelation, 13 years in Makkah and 10 years in Madinah and it has to do with the situation on ground. There are numerous passages in the Qur'an commanding Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam in such terms as 'say', 'remind', 'inform', 'and 'your Lord say', so Muhammad (SAW) does not speak on his own desire or authority, it is no less than a Revelation sent down to him Qur'an 53:3-4. And here comes the context.....

Go ahead, I am waiting for the context

khattab02: I am not saying. But if any thing happens, it has to be in accordance with the correct teachings of Islam that is why we have the authentics sources. No well learnered muslim will advice you to go and kill an innocent person. Otherwise he has to present his proofs and reasons in accordance with the true teachings of Islam and it very easy to know whether he is right or wrong.

Okay. What does Islam teach when a Muslim leaves Islam, what is to happen to him as taught by the Quran and Hadiths?

khattab02: lol.... I have told u ,it has to be an authentic source, the authentic sources we have are the qur'an and sahih ahadith. No one will dispute anytin from these ones. Any way I will verify and get back to you.

Dude, you are neither confirming nor denying In between, which Hadith do you confirm as authoritative and authentic, there are several Hadiths i.e. Al-Bukhari? Sahih Muslim? etc

khattab02: we have the Qur'an and the sahih ahadith as the best and most authentic sources.

Then you should read both very well:

Surah 9:5 === And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful

Surah 9:29 == Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

So, who is taking the above verses out of context?

khattab02: we have the Qur'an and the sahih ahadith as the best and most authentic sources.

Let me get this straight, are you of the opinion that all the Caliphs, Islamic Scholars, countries like Saudi Arabia and the Grand Mufti don't understand Islam because if they did, they will not kill another person?

khattab02: you have to go to the Islamic context to know whether they are right or not. That is why we have the Qur'an and ahadith as eternal guidance. These acts can never be justified from Islamic view point.

I have to go to the Quran and Hadith to know that the killings of Copts since the 7th century is Un-Islamic? Dude - the caliphs are the ones that instituted Sharia. The Conditions of Omar set precedence on how Christians should be dealt with for centuries. Again, I will debate you if you want to discuss this in more detail.

khattab02: he never did and the source can never be correct.

How do you know the source can never be correct? Again, I take a scholastic approach using the earliest Islamic sources that even you can't deny. For example, the account of Fatimah's killing is recorded in Al- Athir books. Ibn Al-Athir (1160–1233) wrote a history of the Muslem world from its beginnings to 1231. His is the most authoritative account, from the Muslem point of view.

Except you are telling me that one of the earliest accounts of a man that recorded several crusades and accounts of Islamic wars is a LIAR

khattab02: talking about burning of churches before boko haram, i have told u, u can't used the actions of some ignorant muslims as a yard stick for Islam rather the other way round. A true muslim will never do such acts because the Qur'an and the ahadith cleary speak against it, that why I showed you 5:32 and there are many more from the Ahadith.

Are you suggesting we use the life of Mohammad as a yard-stick? Who is the true Muslim then?

khattab02: says your view ko?

Haha, if you look at the killing of the Copts, burning their churches and kidnapping their women in this day and age and decide to play poli-tricks with it; then you are not worth my time

khattab02: He can never order such things. Where is your prove? And it has to be from and Authentic source.

Are you saying he never did it or it happened but you don't believe the source?

khattab02: I understand your view of saying Islam is prosecuting christians. You are basing views on the media and what boko haram or some muslim societies does and also yanking ahadith out of context to support your views. I say if you want to judge Islam you should judge Islam based on the authentic sources which are the Qu'ran and the Ahadith , you should not look at what the muslim society does or some muslims does because some may follow 50 percent or 80, 40 or 60 of the teachings of Islam. Killing of innocent human beings is prohibited in Islam, Al qur'an 5:32.

Bros, I am not basing it on any media. I have the Quran here with me. I read the Hadith, Al-Bukhari. I read the life of the prophet, his actions, the things he did and the things most mainstream Islamic countries do today.

For example, the burning of churches and killing of Christians from Kano to Ibadan was happening years before Boko Haram - so you have no case here. I have taken a scholarship and research approach on studying the Quran so you can't come here and tell me I don't know anything about it. I read it just like you do. I am not one of those people who would tell you anyone religion is perfect - I am real and practical.

khattab02: Do you know that there are 14 million coptic Christian Arabs. Coptic means christians right from time, If islam truely prosecuted them there won't be any Arab who will be coptic christians right from time.

Look at you, do you know anything about your history - In 1920's and 1930's; the Middle East had 23% Christian population, now, they are less than 3%. What happened to others? Being Arab isn't tantamount with been Muslim. Christianity was the religion of the vast majority from 400–800 A.D. in Egypt and the majority after the Muslim conquest until the mid-10th century [13] and remains the faith of a significant minority population.

Go read on history man and stop making yourself look foolish here

khattab02: you are lying and blaspheming.

Stop crying like a baby and tell me what I lied about. I am not a Muslim so I can't blaspheme against Mohammad. Besides, Mohammad is not God, so why are you tripping?

khattab02: I am not surprised this is one of the strategies used by the media to malign Islam. 1. Quoting verses of the Qur'an out of context. 2. They Quote verses of the Qur'an and ahadith correct but gives it a wrong meaning. 3. They quote verses of the Qur'an and ahadith correct bt give it a different angle, they portrait it as a problem.

Which Surah and Hadith and I quoting out of context. Who needs the media to tell me about Islam. Was I lying when I wrote Mohammad ordered that Fatima bint Rabi'a should be killed and her daughter raped in front of her? Can you explain the context for me please